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The White County Area Plan Commission met Monday, August 14, 2000, at 7:30 p.m. in the Commissioners’ Meeting Room, Second Floor, County Building, Monticello, Indiana.


Members attending were: Jay Clawson, Gary Barbour, Ray Butz, Charles Anderson, Don Ward, Scott Kyburz, Gregory Bossaer and Rick Raderstorf. Also attending were Attorney Altman and Director Weaver.


Visitors Attending were: Donald & Belle Godlove, Darlene Danford, Elmer & Tammy Hardesty, Pat Coffing, Beula R Widner, Jerry Bonnell, Marjorie Marvin, Fred & Shirley Boessel, Don Heiny, Steven & Teresa Wilslef, Kristina Christensen, Teresa & John Criswell, Mary Penny & William Kusley, Harry DeVall, Dick & Nancy Cosgray, Dan Hanenkratt, Brad Smock, Tim Morris, K. Richey, and S. Graves.


The meeting was called to order by President Charles Anderson and roll call was taken. No minutes were available to approve.




#718 Willie A. Begley Jr.; Requesting to rezone from A-1 to R-2 on 5.00 Acres. The property is located in Liberty Township at 10476 N. 700 E.


President Anderson asked, is there anybody here representing this request? Is Mr. Begley or anybody here? I guess we’ll table this request.


(Mr. Begley was not present at the time his request was announced and showed up later so the Board returned to his request).


President Anderson asked, do we have anyone with any questions about this request?


Director Weaver stated, I think that if the Board will look through the paper work that I gave you tonight, we have received a letter about this with some concerns about rezoning this.


President Anderson asked, do the Commissioners have any questions about this request? No one in the audience has any questions about this request? If not I say let's go ahead and vote.


Jay Clawson asked, I just wanted to know if there was any particular reason that you were wanting this request?


Willie Begley stated, I have 5 acres there and it’s been in the family for 30 years. I just put a new house on there and am meeting the requirements of where it’s at right now with A-1. Sometime in the near future, I have a sister, she is a single mother, and she may want to put a house there, in the future. I will give her an acre or two but, where we want to position it, it wouldn’t fit meeting the A-1 requirements. I’m not a farmer, I don’t farm, I have no intentions of selling the farm and that’s why I want to do it.


With no further discussion the Board voted.


The results of the vote were as follows: 8 affirmative and 0 negative. This will be presented to County Commissioners for their action. 

Attorney Altman stated, next Monday at 8:30 right here. This will be forwarded with a positive recommendation.



#719 Kenneth Nogle, Owner; Pulaski White Rural Telephone Co-op Inc., Applicant; Requesting to rezone from A-1 to B-1 on 5.00 Acres. The property is located in Liberty Township on the Northeast corner of C.R. 700 E. and State Road 16.


President Anderson asked, is there anybody here representing this request?


A representative from Pulaski White Rural Telephone Co-op Inc. stated, yes, Pulaski White, Mr. Nogle is here too. What we want to do is build a office building for customer service at that location.


President Anderson asked, do we have anybody here in the audience with any questions about this request? Do the Commissioners have any questions about that request at all?


Attorney Altman stated, one thing I would mention, we jumped in, as an applicant each one has the right to table your request if you wish to do so. This is a ten-person Board, we only have six members here this evening, to get a positive request you need six votes. If you wish to do so, you can do that, you don’t have to of course. The Board may table this or others and apparently not this one. But, I want to let everybody know and understand that. Not so much for your request but, anybody else’s.


Director Weaver stated, we have had a couple of phone calls in the office on this from adjoining property owners, questioning what the use of the property is going to be. I don’t know if any of those people are here in attendance tonight or not.


President Anderson asked, does anybody have any questions at all about this request?


President Anderson stated, if not let's go ahead and vote.


The results of the vote were as follows: 6 affirmative and 0 negative. This will be presented to the County Commissioners for their action.


Attorney Altman stated, that will be next Monday right here at 8:30 in the morning.


President Anderson asked, so you will get a positive recommendation from us, we agree with what you want to do.


Attorney Altman stated, what it amounts to is, they have the final say so if anyone wants to have input, that’s the people that do the official rezoning. It will be right here at 8:30 in the morning.


President Anderson asked, we’ve had a few more people come in. Willie Begley isn’t around anywhere here is he?


Willie Begley stated, Yes, I’m Willie, right here.


President Thompson stated, okay, we will go ahead and run your request. 



#720 James R. Elliott; Requesting to rezone from I-1 to R-2 on Lots 19 and 20 in the Industrial Addition. The property is located in Monticello at 529 Ireland Street.


President Anderson stated, you have some information as to why they want to do that.


Director Weaver stated, the purpose for this rezoning is this property is zoned Industrial. I believe it was brought under the ordinance as Industrial in this area. It is used for residential and has been for some time. He is just trying to bring it into compliance.


Jay Clawson asked, did we do a couple of lots on the backside of this?


Director Weaver stated, there have been other lots in this area.


Jay Clawson asked, was it Jordan’s, last year?


Director Weaver stated, yes, and there were some previous to that also.


Jay Clawson asked, so we have acted on, I think they are adjoining property aren’t they, or are they real close?


Director Weaver stated, They are real close. I don’t know that they are adjoining.


President Anderson stated, we had somebody here in the audience that had questions about that request. Is there anybody here representing that request?


James Elliott was representing this request.


President Anderson asked, somebody else had a question about that. Do you want to state your name?


William Kusley asked, I just wondered what he wanted to build on there and what he’s done to change, he said he was going to change some of them. I wondered what he was going to put there.


President Anderson asked, do you want to respond to that?


James Elliott stated, yes, we’re going to extend to the East, with a room addition and a garage. We’re going to extend the roofline up on that East side and some interior remodeling. To do that, we have change it because, it was under the “I” zoning.


Attorney Altman stated, the only thing I can tell you is from the zoning point of view, he can put anything in there if its rezoned that an R-2 will allow. In other words, what he says doesn’t bind somebody later on if they own the lot. They can put whether an R-2 or whatever an R-2 will allow to go in there. A good question and it’s a good answer but, whatever this ordinance will allow can be in there.


William Kusley asked, what could he put in there with an R-2, what could he put in there, otherwise than that?


Director Weaver stated, he could put in a duplex, daycare can go in an R-2 zoning.


William Kusley asked, is there any kind of plans or anything submitted, as to what is going to be put in there?


President Anderson stated, he doesn’t have to.


Director Weaver stated, you don’t have to do that.


Attorney Altman stated, they are not bound by it, is what it amounts to. In a rezoning they can do whatever the ordinance defines as R-2. That’s what I’m trying to say to you. I don’t doubt for a second that’s what he’s going to do but, 10 years from now somebody else could do whatever the R-2 zoning allows in there, assuming it’s rezoned Mr. Cusley, is what I’m trying say to you. I don’t mean to imply that he’s going to do something different than he says. The future is not yet with us.


President Anderson stated, but, with industrial, you can do a lot noisier things with that than you can R-2.


Attorney Altman stated, clearly you could, yes.


President Anderson asked, does anybody else have a question about this request? Do the Commissioners have any questions? If not, let's go ahead and vote.


With no further discussion the Board voted.


The results of the vote were as follows: 8 affirmative and 0 negative. This will be presented to City Council for their action.


Attorney Altman stated, that will be next Monday at 7:00 at the City Council room and they have the final say on that. So if you have any questions or have an opinion and you want to voice it, that’s where you do it.




#721 Hanenkratt Grain Company, Inc.; Requesting to rezone from B-2 to I-1 on Lots 47, 64, 65 and 66 in the Original Plat of the Town of Idaville. The property is located on South Railroad Street and just East of Main Street in Idaville.


President Anderson asked, do we have anyone representing that request?


Dan Hanenkratt with Hanenkratt Grain was representing this request.


President Anderson asked, do we have anyone here with any questions about that request?


Jerry Bonnell stated, I have some things that we need to discuss, on the problems that we have existing now, with the grain elevator. With it expanding, the problems will just increase and we need to look at the problems that we have right now at hand and I have some signatures on a petition, Exhibit A, I have 147 signatures…


Attorney Altman asked, do you want that part of the record?


Jerry Bonnell stated, yes, the 147 people…


Attorney Altman asked, is that an original there?


Jerry Bonnell stated, no, this is just some things that I want to discuss. 


President Anderson asked, do you want to go ahead and go through that and then we’ll see if we can get a response.


Jerry Bonnell stated, the signature listed in the attached petition are an agreement with that the problems that existing with the business now. Enlarging the business will only create more problems and make the existing problems larger. The existing business now causes a lot of semi traffic, the speed limits are not obeyed at harvest time their goal is to see who can get into scales and unload first. They do not care about the welfare of our children at the speed that they are traveling they cannot get stopped fast enough to miss a child on a bike or a child chasing a ball rolling onto the street. The blowers on the bins are noisy now and with more blowers it will only create more noise. The red dust from the corn cobs blow all over our homes, in our screens on the ground outside our homes and then is tracked inside our car vents, it blows everywhere. Additional bins, will cause more of the dust, there may be a health problem with this. The White County Health Department has been contacted about this problem and will be contacted again at harvest time. When the dust is falling in the air as like it’s snowing out. Hanenkratt does not clean it up, we have to clean it up. Hanenkratt, as far as I know, is equipped to keep the dust from blowing. I can’t say that for sure but, they will not use it because, you can tell that it’s not doing any good. The grain that falls onto the ground, causes hundreds of birds to migrate and roost in our trees around the town. With additional grain bins, this will only increase the number of birds and bird droppings. They are noisy, dirty and are killing the grass and plants in our yard, this is very unsanitary. The Health Department has been contacted on this matter and we are waiting for a reply from them. Senator Katie Wolf will be our next step. There is a problem here and to grant Hanenkratt a rezoning of the properties, listing in the petition, our problems will only intensify. We are concerned citizens and hope that you will help us to stop this rezoning, until the problems that exist are cleared up. Thank you so much for hearing our concerns, sincerely the people of Idaville.


President Anderson asked, do you want to respond to that or tell exactly what you want to do out there.


Dan Hanenkratt stated, at the present time, we do not have any concrete plans, as to what we are going to do. We bought the two houses on the South side of the street, lot #47 is directly East of the feed mill, which there really isn’t probably to much that we can do with that but, we’re looking down the road. It’s going to have to be rezoned, we’re looking down the road and this is the first step in the process. We’re going to have to have variances down the road and I know that but, this was the first step and we initiated it. I guess that we will have to see what happens. I feel like we have been a good citizen of the community, we have done everything that we can to keep things cleaned up and take care of things, as they should be. In 1986 when we made a purchase there on the West side there, tore down some dilapidated, vacant buildings and made improvements on that. Brad has some things to say here that can address the questions also.


President Anderson stated, let’s bring Brad up first and then we will get the rest of you guys in the audience too.


Brad Smock stated, I’m the manager in Idaville, I have seen the letter there. I spent the day going through it, seeing the problems you guys have and came up with different things I think to address that you guys need to be aware of.


An audience member stated, that’s our city park right across the street, that’s our town park, we’re putting money into that.


Attorney Altman stated, sir, you will get a chance to talk in just a minute. If we do that, we will not let him interrupt you so don’t interrupt him. You will get a chance to talk.


Brad Smock stated, looking at the letter, I saw the first thing that I came across was the traffic that was a concern. I think that a lot of the traffic there, is a lot of traffic during harvest time, the semi’s or wagons tractors or straight trucks or what ever it might be. A lot of those trucks use Main Street, not every one of those trucks that use Main Street comes to our elevators. Main Street is going to be very busy because, it ties the whole country to U.S. 24. So you go East, you head to Logansport, go West you go to Monticello. So as far as the traffic by us expanding, we’re not going to buy any more grain than we already do. The only difference is we are going to be able to store the grain that we do buy. So every load of corn you see go by, does not necessarily come to us so that would be the traffic. Our trucks are not using Main Street, our trucks come in, they re-route where they come through Monticello and use U.S. 24 probably 90% of the time. So the only place that they would turn, would be there at the gas station to get to our elevator, rather than them come through the country. We have just designated that as a safer route for them to travel, then for our trucks to come through the county and they have to pass through town to get to the elevator. As far as the children and the safety of the children, that was a concern. There is no farmer in our community that we deal with, nor are there any of our truck drivers or employees that would want to put any of your children, our children or anyone in danger. I think that we all know, that that we wouldn’t want to put them in danger. Now, the children in the town, I mean you guys have a problem with the way that we might do things and that’s what I’m trying to address. The children in the town also are kids or what ever you would want to call them, causes us plenty of grief also. We get fire extinguishers put off, we have had buildings broke in, we have cuss words painted on it, we get windows broke, breaking security lights and it happens at the church also, I have seen their security lights broke also. Then, the grain, they let grain out of our bins, they open up the doors and let grain out of our bins. That’s all a problem and I agree that is a concern. That’s something, I mean as far as the kids getting ran over on the road, is a concern. I would hope that would never happen but, there are also concerns around the community about the children, that something should be done with them, I’ll agree with that.

The noise, any of the dryers, which that was a concern also. The same amount of bushels will run through that dryer, whether we build another bin or we don’t because, now what happens is we dry the corn and we haul it out. We put it in semis and haul it out because, we don’t have enough room to store it, so the same amount of corn is going to run through the dryer and the dryer is a noisy part, I will admit the dryer is noisy. Most of the noise is going on the North side where the fans face, that’s where they exhaust, so any dryers that we put, any other bins that we put in will only have aeration fans. Aeration fan are, if you compare it to maybe a window, a window unit air conditioner, that might be the noise of a aeration fan. Now, the dryers are extremely loud and you wouldn’t have an air conditioner that loud. As far as the bee’s wings, which are the red cobs, as you referred to it that blows around we will admit that is a problem. That is probably the biggest problem that we have and the biggest complaint that we would try to get solved here. We have spent 45,000 dollars trying to solve that problem, we put in oilier machines, and it’s called a vac, when the corn goes up the leg the vac is theoretically suppose to suck the bees wings off of the corn and put it into, we have an overhead tank that we haul and we’ll fill up a truck. Then haul it out, well we haul it out to my house, we have put it on the ground before, we have probably used some of your ground to put it on, Merts ground or someone. We haul it away from the elevator trying to get it out of town and we’re always looking for different things to improve that system. I realize that system, it might have some flaws but, it is still 45,000 dollars that we put towards trying to better the community, or try to make the bees wings where we could cut down. We’re always looking for something better and if there is anything better we will be sure to look at it and see if it’s justifiably so.

As far as grain on the ground, which causes the birds, the grain on the ground, you can drive by our place now and you won’t see weeds or grain. If you see grain on the ground, it is very minimal, if any. Most of the grain on the ground that we have, is from when the kids come and let the grains out of the bins and then we have to clean it up, that’s where the majority of the problem would come with the grain on the ground. If we spill grain on the ground, it’s costing us money, so for us to leave piles of grain on the ground doesn’t make economical sense for us. The reason there are birds in town, we sell a bunch of bird feed through the elevator, that goes to people in town. There is going to be birds in town, whether we have a grain elevator there or not, we’re still going to have birds. As far as being unsanitary, that was another concern, you need to just drive by, if you have never seen the place you won’t find weeds, you won’t find junk, you won’t find anything like that. Like Dan referred to, there was two buildings that we torn down that was considered unsanitary, probably had rats in it and that kind of stuff. That was considered unsanitary but, what we have now, is very sanitary. You can drive by it and see for yourself, the way that it looks. There are places in Idaville, where there may be weeds, tall weeds, there may be junk or there may be whatever you want to consider as unsanitary, that you could go through and pick out and say yes, this is a problem. So the things that were mentioned here, we know there are some problems and the community knows that there are problems and we are more than willing to work with any of you to try to solve any of the problems that we have. I would rather see us trying to work together to try to solve some of the problems, than against one another and I guess that the big picture here is, off of confronting that is, how do we effect the community in whole. The feed mill itself, the building has been there, the building says that it’s been there since pre 1955. The building was 1955 and it was there before that. We have owned it since 1972, so if something has been there a long time and I don’t know how long, if you guys have lived there since 1955 or whatever it may be but, it’s been there a long time. We’re sitting in the middle of an agricultural community and everything around there is based off of agricultural. We generate 16 million dollars a year into that agricultural community, 10 million through the purchase of grain from farmers and 6 million of it a year is through livestock that we feed, that would be the retail value of the livestock when they haul it to town. So that’s 16 million dollars that is in that community, that goes to pay for the Eastlawn School, which everyone of your kids go to and so much of the property taxes are paying for that is probably the farmers. Then, they also pay for the roads and that 16 million dollars goes to it, I don’t know where you guys work but, if you work at a place that buys bearings, they buy bearings. If you make pop, they buy pop if you sell candy, whatever you do a farmer is buying it in the long run, and they generate 16 million dollars from our place, right from our community. We pay 10,000 dollars a year for property taxes, which is still right there in that community, I don’t know how taxes work exactly but, someone has to make up that 10,000 dollars if we weren’t there for the property taxes. If we build more bins, it’s only more property taxes. For however many years that I have been there and prior to that, before I was even there, we have a church right across the road, we have never been open when that church is in. When they are in church, we’ll never run the dryer when that church is in, I think that shows if we were out there looking for ourselves, we wouldn’t care about the church across the road, we would go ahead and run the dryer and conduct business. We try not to do that because, we like the community and we like the people that we work with and that is just not a good gesture to be running the dryer and trying to dump grain when church is in. We try to donate money to the 4-H, to the church, to the fire department, we try to do all of that which again, is back toward the community. I think that the biggest thing that we have to remember is that we are in a farm community, most of you know farmers, you may have grown up on a farm, or any of that and what we’re in right now is, we’re in a very competitive market where these farmers have to have a good place to sell their crops. Without that, they are not in business, they have to have a good place to sell their crops and for us to expand to make it competitive for them because, if we’re not competitive, the farmer isn’t competitive and that means that either the farmer is not in business and someone from Tippecanoe County or Monticello comes in and rents their ground or whatever it may be. They need a good market place, that’s what we’re trying to provide, and that’s the reason that we feel that we need to expand to do that. So now, if you guys have any questions, we will be sure to answer them the best that we can. 


An audience member asked, why do you want to expand….


President Anderson stated, we will have you speak again and then we will call you up here as we can because, we have to put all of this on the record.


Jerry Bonnell stated, concerning the traffic in town, I live just a couple of houses from the elevator, I see the people leaving the elevator and they leave, they come out of the elevator and when they come out of the elevator it’s just like a drag strip. They leave that elevator and by the time, my house is only about a ½ of a block away, they are probably hitting 30 miles per hour and they are still catching gears and going as fast as they can go and by the time that they get through the other end of town. There are kids all along there, they are doing a high rate of speed there is no way that they could get stopped…


President Anderson asked, is that farmers?


Jerry Bonnell stated, yes, that’s farmers and Hanenkratt trucks also, I have seen all of them go by there at a high rate of speed when they leave the elevator and they are shifting gears as fast as they can be shifted and they are flying.


President Anderson asked, have you ever contacted the Police, or the State Police?


Jerry Bonnell stated, yes, they have been notified but, we just have been letting things go and get by. It’s just all of these problems are not going to be getting any better and we are going to get a hold of the Department of Transportation. If the speed can’t be stopped, then they will be notified every time. We will take down license plates and they will be notified. He was talking about the 16 million dollars, I grant that is a lot of money but, is the life of a child, what are they worth? Are they worth 16 million dollars? There are a lot of children in town, little children and I will agree there is not a lot of supervision but, you can’t blame the little children for bad supervision. They don’t know any better than to walk out in the streets. Another thing, you must have misunderstood me unsanitary, I was not talking about the elevator, you guys do a fairly good job, I’m talking about the bird droppings that we have, thousands. I could almost say thousands of birds and you look over in the elevator in the evening when they start roosting in there, the elevator is covered with birds and the trees have hundreds of birds. You come out and park in front of your house, slam the door and make a little bit of noise with your car door, the sky it may not be dark but, the sky will get dark because, there is so many starlings in the trees. We have bird droppings everywhere, they are just terrible, the people that walk around town for exercise can’t even walk around town because, all of the bird droppings, it’s not sanitary. The noise, right now with the blowers that exist on the corn bins to keep the air circulating in them is pretty noisy and just like you said just a little bit ago, if they get it changed over to zoning they can make more noise. That’s just what I heard, I think, in less I heard wrong, that they will be able to make more noise. Right now, we’re trying to solve the problem and if they get it over industrial, it’s just going to be that much harder for us to solve. If we could have some things in writing that will be taken care of, we would be a lot happier. The dust, you spent all of that money and I think that they got robbed spending all of that money because, it didn’t seem to help at all. The North side of town, when they start harvesting and dumping the corn into the semis is where main problem comes in. That’s when their machine that they put in, when they dump the corn and correct me if I’m wrong, when the farmers are dumping the corn into the augers to auger it up in there, that’s when the machine to catch the dust, correct me if I’m wrong.


Brad Smock stated, the machine catches the dust before it goes to the dryers.


Jerry Bonnell stated, when farmers dump in there….


Brad Smock stated, it’s the oiling machine, when the farmer dumps, it oils the grain and that’s is supposedly, this is how it is suppose to work in theory. That supposedly, oils the grain, which keeps the bees wings stuck to the grain, then it runs through the leg to the wet holding bin, it goes up the leg the other machine that I was talking about, it is suppose to suck the dust and all of the bees wings off and that’s when it puts it into the auger.


Jerry Bonnell stated, see when the farmers dump the corn in there, the corn is wet so the stuff is not going to blow, then you know they have the machine in their own place and then it goes through the dryer. Then when it gets augured out to get dumped into the semis, this stuff is dry and these bees wings, when that stuff is dumping into the semis these bees wings are flying every where, all over the town. It’s just like it’s snowing when you are out, it’s terrible, it blows into your house and your windows, it’s so fine it goes through your screen windows and it’s got to be a respiratory problem with it.


President Anderson asked, do you want to respond to anything that he has said? The birds, are they all over town?


Jerry Bonnell stated, the birds, you cannot believe how bad they are. I have lived there 46 years.


President Anderson asked, what I’m trying to ask you, are the birds just at the elevator or are the birds all over town?


Jerry Bonnell stated, they congregate pretty much where the elevator is and if you ask people around town, they will tell you in the evening the elevator is covered with starlings.


Brad Smock stated, I guess that my response to that is, I also own a farm and any place that you see a starling, it’s in highest points that you can find. We’re the only thing around there that is 150’ tall.


Jerry Bonnell stated, yes, but, our trees aren’t that tall.


Brad Smock stated, you just said that they were hanging around the elevator.


Jerry Bonnell stated, they are and they are hanging around the trees too…


Brad Smock asked, so they are in both places then?


Jerry Bonnell stated, they go from the elevator, then they fly into our trees. The air can be as still as it could, not a wind blowing and you look up I the trees and the trees go like this because, they are so full of starlings. I have lived in Idaville for 46 years and we have had the problem for 46 years. The elevator has been there for 46 years, and it just keeps increasing. This is probably the worst year that I have ever seen it.


President Anderson asked, the birds?


Jerry Bonnell stated, the birds.


President Anderson stated, we need to move on from the birds right now. Do the Commissioners have any questions right now for anyone? If not I’m going to give it to someone in the audience. We have had a lot of things to addresses here, we will be here all night if we keep bringing up the same things over and over. If someone has something different to say or to add to it would you come forward and state your name.


Craig Kelley stated, I live in Idaville also and my concern is, we just got a septic system, not a septic system but, a sewer system, which is going to be installed next year. Everyone on my whole block, all of the old people are either deceased or have moved on, they are all young. I’m looking for the town to expand, grow and everyone to fix up the town. We don’t need to take out houses that are needed to put in more grain elevators.


President Anderson asked, do you want to respond to that?


Dan Hanenkratt stated, there again, we’re back to the economic function. We would rather not be in town but, we’re there so economically if we can, we need to do our expansion right there.


Craig Kelly asked, economically, don’t you have a plant on Range Line Road and U.S. 24 that has a lot of lots and no houses?


Brad Smock stated, that’s 10 miles away, which to move grain an extra 10 miles you add 2 cents to the cost for every 10 miles that you travel if it’s already loaded, so for the farmer that’s where we go away from the competitiveness.


Craig Kelly stated, the way that I look at it is, I want to see the town grow, I don’t want to see, like you said, if you change it you can sell that land and do what ever you want right? If they get a rezoning.


President Anderson stated, once it’s zoned….


Craig Kelly stated, once it’s zoned, it’s changed. It’s already business and I don’t think that Idaville needs to change the zoning right there in that town.


President Anderson asked, do we have anyone else in the audience?


Jennifer Morgan stated, I was just wondering if Hanenkratt, we live on South Street so it’s real close to us and we live on the Railroad Street. We were wondering, that the birds are such a problem where we live, that in our front yard we have to go out every night, hose it and scoop it up. We were just wondering if there was anything that you would do, maybe have it paid to have it sprayed or something for the birds they are horrible.


Dan Hanenkratt stated, that is something that we would have to look into. I did not realize, I don’t know if we are the cause of the problem. I’m not necessarily convinced of that but, I guess it’s something worth looking into.


President Anderson asked, are your bins open at all?


Dan Hanenkratt stated, not at all.


Brad Smock stated, as far as to solve the bird problem, maybe it will and maybe it won’t but, my theory on the birds is, there is none of our grain that you can get to, a mouse can’t get into our grain.


Jennifer Morgan stated, well, it’s tracked all into my house, on my shoes, I live down the street.


Brad Smock stated, I did this the other day, just out of curiosity, got my golf cart we have and drove around and look at how many bird feeders you see in Idaville…


Jennifer Morgan stated, I admit its….


Brad Smock stated, they can get to food freely that way. Now, for them to get into our bins, it’s impossible for them to get inside our bins.


Jennifer Morgan stated, I was just wondering about the spraying, if that would be something, if you could… 


Brad Smock stated, right, and if we do that then we catch the other side because, we’re killing birds.


Jennifer Morgan stated, I know but, that was just my question.


Brad Smock stated, like I said, we’ll look at it and see if that is something that we’re causing then, sure we’ll take a look at it.


Jerry Bonnell stated, she has an existing property beside the elevator.


Pat Coffing asked, I have just been a resident in Idaville for 6 years, I have the adjoining property from Hanenkratt Grain, from across the alley. They bought the property North of me and I will be adjoining to them off to the North. Then if they buy the church, I will have adjoining property all to the East of my garage. I’m just concerned on the value of the properties decreasing, I’m going to be right next to there, I’m an agricultural family, I grew up on a farm and Hanenkratt does a very good job of cleaning up the place and doing that, I’m not knocking this at all. I just have concerns of my property decreasing, from the grain bins, the blowers, the way station and the office. If it is all going to be put there is that going to decrease my property.


President Anderson stated, that’s something that we can’t tell you.


Pat Coffing asked, would it logically, think that it would? I mean all that I have is an alley and I have a rental house. I own two homes there, I have a rental house and then my house and that is one of my main concerns. The other concern that I have is to Brad or Mr. Hanenkratt, do you have any idea what you are going to put in that area yet? Obviously, you are going to put bins right?


Brad Smock stated, yes.


Pat Coffing asked, do you know how many?


Dan Hanenkratt stated, not for sure, probably at least 2 and what we’re thinking is, if the church thing works out, the existing building to the South the Sunday school rooms or whatever they are there, we’re thinking maybe we can utilize that as an office and then get scales in that area somewhere. We haven’t set down and tried to draw it all out on paper and see how things are going to work.


Pat Coffing asked, what about dryers? Are you going to put a dryer in that vicinity?


Dan Hanenkratt stated, no.


Pat Coffing asked, not at all?


Dan Hanenkratt stated, no.


President Anderson stated, earlier they said that they are going to put ventilation units in there, somewhere but, no dryers.


Don Hanenkratt stated, the aeration fans that will be in the dryers, on the North next to the railroad tracks. That’s where it will be and that’s the only dryer that we will have.


Pat Coffing asked, so, if you put the weigh station and the office right in there where the church is, how will the semis come in will they come in the same way? How will they exit?


Brad Smock stated, that’s something that we’re working on right now, to figure out the best way.


Pat Coffing stated, yes, I did talk to Brad about that when he called to inform me but, my garage is, I have to come in-between the alley and property that you own on the alley there and then I don’t have an exit except for the alley.


Dan Hanenkratt stated, right, we couldn’t block the alley.


Pat Coffing stated, I know that but, I’m just concerned about trucks and things going through there. Have you thought about, you have put bins up with all of the traffic coming in and everything, have you maybe thought about putting up a 10’ fence to keep the kids out of there because of danger?


Dan Hanenkratt stated, we would definitely have to put up some type of a privacy fence, whether it would be a chain link fence or a nice wood fence or something like that to isolate and insulate.


Pat Coffing asked, would it go all around the property?


Dan Hanenkratt stated, it would be hard to put it all of the way around the property because, again, you have to get in and out.


Pat Coffing stated, it would be nice to have sliding gates for trucks and stuff. Maybe a 50’ fence.


Dan Hanenkratt stated, that might be a possibility and keep the kids out.


Pat Coffing asked, how about on the interstate, you see some kind of sound barriers because my house is really tall. Could you maybe think about putting, if this passes, whatever happens, could you put a sound barrier to maybe help? I don’t know what I’m talking about but, the things off of the interstate.


Dan Hanenkratt stated, the vac fans that we use are called a centrifugal fan which they make very little noise and I think that you can get baffles, mufflers or whatever but, they really don’t make that much noise.


President Anderson stated, economically I don’t think that they can get into the feasibility of putting up some sound barriers to block the sound.


Pat Coffing stated, I know that they can be a lot louder and I know you’ve done what you can…


President Anderson stated, we’re getting a little bit off of the subject.


Dan Hanenkratt stated, we want to ago along with everyone the best that we can. We want to do what is best for the community, we’re trying to look out for everyone, not just ourselves.


Pat Coffing stated, I understand.


President Anderson stated, we’re starting to run out of time. We’ll be here all night. Do we have anyone else that has anything new?


Anthony Pigecella stated, I live down the street, I’m just wondering, I have not lived there very long, but I have a lot of mice. How are you going to prevent that from bringing more mice in? I haven’t really lived in a farm community all of my life, I know that there are mice anyway but, it only makes sense that if you have one already, it’s going to be 3 or 4 times as much.


President Anderson asked, do you have some type of varmint control?


Brad Smock stated, as far as the mice go, I would say that you could come to our place and you could sit there for 2 weeks and you might not find a mouse. Every 15’ there is a bait station for that and every place on the outside, there is a bait station for rats or mice or anything like that. So as far as the mice are concerned, we do everything within our power to keep them, whether that’s if they are coming from the elevator. I would say that you will probably have mice whether we are there or not.


Anthony Pigecella stated, I work in a warehouse where they have those little mice catchers but, you still have rats that get by. I mean they are going to go where the food is and the more food that you put there…


President Anderson asked, do you have a lot of problems with rats at your place?


Anthony Pigecella stated, well, I have caught a couple in my house.


Brad Smock stated, like I said if there is something, I don’t know what we could do to keep those, we don’t really see that many at the elevator, to be honest with you.


Dan Hanenkratt stated, I would venture to say that there are other properties in town that have more rodents than we do.


Brad Smock stated, I would agree, anyone that has much stuff sitting in the yard.


President Anderson asked, does anyone else have anything at all?


Donald Godlove stated, I believe that her name is Coffing speaking about the property, she would be bordered on the East, I don’t think that she has checked her facts straight. I don’t think that what the Hanenkratts’ are interested in would border her on the East. Another thing that people might not be aware of is, that alley does not go through to the road, the alley on the South does not go through to the road, and it’s a “T” alley. The main part runs East and West and there is a part that goes South. Is the red dust at harvest time, the only time that you’re bothered with the red dust?


Craig Kelly stated, no not really, mainly at harvest time but, when they load their trucks.


An audience member stated, in the spring.


Anthony Pigecella stated, when they hold the grain and get rid of the grain, we are involved with it too.


Donald Godlove asked so if they put up, for every if you want to call it, 100,000 thousand bushel bin, for every one of those that they put up that’s 100 loads that they don’t load out at harvest time, which means that there is considerable red dust. I’ve hauled grain to that elevator since 1948, the children in this town have been an increasing problem, since I have been hauling grain. I have hauled a lot of grain in there with tractors and wagons, I have never seen it myself because, I can’t see the back of my wagons but, they tell me that sometimes when I go around the corners the kids will go up and hang on the back of my ladders on my wagons and ride. I can’t do anything about that, if they are still on the sidewalk when I go by, there’s no way that I can do that. Some of these children seem to think that they own the street, they challenge us to either stop or to go around them rather than for them to get out of the road. Thank you.


Darlene Danford stated, I talked to Brad one night when he stopped by to tell me that they were rezoning, which I had already heard the word. I lived on a farm, grew up on a farm and we had dust and stuff. I know that the elevator has been there for long, long time but, the traffic that the elevator now has is a lot more than what it was years ago and the dust is a lot worst.


President Anderson stated, we’re getting back into things that we have already discussed. Do you have something different?


Darlene Danford stated, yes, I do have something different. We have a sewer that is coming in, our property will be going up in value but, with the bins and stuff that is going to bring it back down. We are trying to improve the town and we just feel that this is a step that will bring us backwards. I know that the farmers need the place to bring the grain, they have investments but, us in town, have investments in the homes and that’s our concerns.


President Anderson asked, does anyone else have anything new to bring up?


Kathlene Richey stated, yes, the traffic is a problem, we have had cables ripped down in front of our house and different things. I’m sorry but, your trucks and the farmers haul ass, they haul ass. I’m 4 houses on North Main Street and they are going 30 miles an hour by the time that they hit my house going out of town, much less coming into town. They can really be doing even more than 30 they can be doing 40 or 45. 


President Anderson stated, we’re back into the speed limit.


Kathlene Richey stated, we’re back into the speed limit but, the speed limit is a serious problem, the red dust is a serious problem.


President Anderson stated, I know it is and we have already discussed that, we have to limit this because, we can’t stay here all night.


Kathlene Richey stated, but, I want to press upon you.


President Anderson stated, it has already been impressed.


Kathlene Richey stated, okay.


Dave Rieff stated, I farm North and South of Idaville. On behalf of Hanenkratt, we haul 250 to 300 semi loads of grain through Idaville every fall and we won’t stop there very often, do we? So, I contribute to the traffic. As far as the speed, I wish that I had a semi truck that would do 30 from the corner to Jerry’s house because, they don’t make such a thing. We don’t stop as his elevator with our trucks because, we can’t. They are too big, we can’t get around good, we cant get on his scales because, it’s not long enough and he’s not a big of enough of an elevator that he can’t compete with the terminals. So that means that I have to go 20 miles down the road and that costs me at least 50 dollars a trip to go down the road, to where if I can stop there that would be 250 to 300 semi loads of grain that would stay in White County, that’s a lot of taxable dollars that are going to Cass County because, our stuff is to big to get into his elevator. As far as the cables on your houses, I have taken them down with my combine. They are not tall enough, cable companies don’t put them tall enough and if it’s a big deal, I will send you the bill every time that I tear the top off of my combine because, all of the cables are suppose to be 16’ off of the ground and they are not. Semi trucks are a problem that you are going to live with, if he’s not there, it’s going to get worse because, there is a lot of farmers that go through Idaville that don’t stop there. We would like to do more business there but like I said, we can’t get around corners we can’t get on the scales.


Kathlene Richey stated, we would love to help you out but, we just don’t want it in down town Idaville that’s all that we’re trying to say. One mile out of Idaville, 2 cents, you said 2 cents.


David Rieff stated, it’s not, economically, for him to move.


President Anderson stated, let’s just stop it right here, we can’t have arguing. I want a show of hands here of all of those that are opposed.


John Criswell asked, can I say something?


President Anderson asked, is it new?


John Criswell stated, yes.


Attorney Altman stated, let me count first. All of the ones that are opposed to this please raise your hands, 18 not in favor. How many in favor, 7 in favor.


John Criswell stated, I’m from Idaville I appreciate the farmers and Hanenkratt, they do a good job in the community it’s all appreciated. The birds and all of this, is a major factor. I have lived in Idaville for a year and a half and I’m facing the church property, which is a vacant lot. I didn’t buy my house for it to be industrial zoned, if I wanted industrial zoned, I would have went to Farabee Drive in Lafayette and bought a house.


David Stoll stated, can I make one comment about the birds, it’s just a rebuttal. I live North of Idaville, I farm on both sides, I attend the Idaville Church of God, I have a 1 year old and a 3 year old. Our church is right across the street from the elevator, I drive through Idaville most days, 4 times and I have never seen the elevator covered with birds. I have never seen the bird droppings on the sidewalks at the church, which is across the street which I thought was unsanitary enough for my little girls not to go to church.


Harry DuVall stated, I live right next to them, Hanenkratt. I have a house on lot #48 that is right East of their property in town. You were talking about the kids letting the grain out, can’t you put a paddle lock on there?


Brad Smock stated, they have them on them, you go look at every one of them, they will have a paddle lock.


Harry DuVall stated, when you go to the bigger terminals, won’t they pay more?


Brad Smock stated, we can’t handle it.


Harry Duvall stated, the road running, its called East, it runs North and South of my house, East Cross Street. I went out there and measured the pavement on that tonight and it’s about 12 ½’ wide and you give a 1’ on each side for a little burm, there that makes it what, 14 ½’? Now, a small grain trucks and I’m talking a 1600 International, which is pretty common, are about 9’ from mirror to mirror you double that up and it’s 18’, well, the trucks aren’t going to pass and hit mirrors, they are going to have to have another 1’ or 2’ in-between them so you have 20’. My yard gets tire tracks in them during harvest time a lot, that’s one of my concerns, the bins, how high are they going to be if you decide to put them in? Are they going to be 150’?


Brad Smock stated, we haven’t even decided that yet.


Harry DuVall stated, all of the houses around there you know, you have roofs, there’s 150’ of skyscraper up there, bin is going to put up some shade. If your house is on the wrong side, it’s not going to dry out the roof.


President Anderson stated, I just want to state again there are 8 of us here right now, and for a positive recommendation from this Board you would need 6 out of 10. You have the right to table this, or do you want us to go ahead and vote, we will do that right now.


Brad Smock asked, could this be brought up in the future?


President Anderson stated, yes.


Attorney Altman stated, what happens if you table it will be brought up at our next meeting which is the September meeting and obviously, if it gets a positive recommendation it goes to the County Commissioners. If it gets less than a positive recommendation, it goes to the Commissioners they decide it either way. It’s like on anything else or the City Council, on the matters that goes to the City Council, they decide either way. So this will proceed to the County Commissioners whether you get a positive recommendation, or no recommendation at all, that’s all.


Brad Smock stated, of all the people here and I’m glad that all of you came to say what you had to say but, for every signature on that piece of paper and every person here, I can double that through farmers that would sign a piece of paper saying that they need us and it would show up here but, I didn’t have enough time.


President Anderson asked, do you want us to go ahead and vote on this tonight?


Attorney Altman stated, for the record, we received into evidence exhibit, A which is 8 pages, and I have marked them. The first objector, I read from it the rest of it is names of people that have a spouse or objector as he started out in his statement and this will be circulating among the membership of this Board for their information.


Jerry Bonnell asked, what could you tell me about pouring a big slab and dumping the corn on the ground?


Brad Smock asked, you mean how do we do it?


Jerry Bonnell stated, no, what can you tell me about it.


Brad Smock asked, if we’re going to do it?


The audience member stated, yes, if you’re going to do it. Someone said that you mentioned it.


Brad Smock stated, yes, this year we will have a pile of grain or we’re planning on it but, it will be in Monticello because, we do not have enough land to do it in Idaville. So most likely what we will do is, it will happen in every elevator in the industry this year because, we have an over abundance of grain and that’s the reason that the price is effected.


Jerry Bonnell asked, is that going to happen in Idaville?


Brad Smock stated, as of right now, I would say that there is no way that we could.


Jerry Bonnell asked, but, if you get the church property and stuff there is a real good possibility that it could happen?


Brad Smock stated, no because, there is not really enough property in Idaville no matter what. You’re talking a pile in 150,000 bushel of corn on the ground. So you take one of those big bins that we have, lay it down, split it open and that would take up a lot of ground.


Jerry Bonnell stated, there is still a lot of room there by the church.


Brad Smock stated, no, it’s not economically to store it on the ground. You only do it in, how many years have you been in the business, and you have done it twice? When you have a big crop like this, it’s something that has to be done, I guess in a big crop year like this but, it’s not going to happen in Idaville.


Jerry Bonnell stated, another thing that I’m concerned with is, you guys don’t live in Idaville so you’re not really...


President Anderson stated, keep it one question.


Jerry Bonnell stated, these people don’t live in Idaville, so they don’t have to live with it to where we have to live with this day….


President Anderson stated, let’s go ahead and vote.


With no further discussion the Board voted.


The results of the vote were as follows: 7 affirmative and 1 negative. This will be presented to County Commissioners for their action. 

Attorney Altman stated, this will be forwarded to the County Commissioners with a positive recommendation.


President Anderson stated, before everyone leaves, we don’t have the final say on this, the County Commissioners have the final say on this, so everyone should be at the County Board.


Attorney Altman stated, that will be next Monday morning at 8:30 right here, 8:30 in the morning, that’s when they will have it for their consideration.


Kathlene Richey stated, but, you guys didn’t even listen….


Attorney Altman asked, do you understand that?


Kathlene Richey stated, yes, I understand but you guys didn’t even listen.


An audience member stated, that’s it, they had the vote.




#248 Nichols Farms Inc.; Requesting approval of a 39 lot subdivision to be known as Deer Run Estates on 26.560 Acres. The property is located in Union Township on the East side of C.R. 300 E., approximately ¼ of a mile North of C.R. 225 N. Tabled from April 17, 2000. 


This request remained tabled.




#249 Fred Boessel; Requesting approval of a 4 lot subdivision to be known as Boessel Subdivision on 2.45 Acres. The property is located in Monon Township on the Southwest corner of Monon Road and Bedford Bay Court, also known as 6464 N. Bedford Bay Court.


President Anderson asked, do we have anyone here representing this request?


Fred Boessel was representing the request.


President Anderson asked, do we have anyone in the audience with any questions about this?


Director Weaver stated, I will just refresh the Board’s on this, we tabled this request, we did not take a vote. It was tabled, due to the fact, that they had a variance, an approved variance on the corner for the bait shop and there was concern about the property being in a flood way. We have received a letter from the DNR stating that the property is in a special flood hazard area, which regulates the lowest floor elevation for a new structure and Jerry, I think is going to address the variance.


Attorney Altman asked, what about that, where is the flood zone line?


Director Weaver stated, they have revised the plat, I don’t remember if he showed that on there. I don’t know that it is on there.


Attorney Altman stated, I don’t see it on there.


Director Weaver stated, no, he has not designated that. He does show the elevation but, he doesn’t designate the special flood hazard area.


Fred Boessel stated, we talked to Jim Milligan yesterday and he said that there wasn’t anything about the flood plain.


Director Weaver stated, he is not actually in a flood way, so they can build structure but, it regulates the lowest floor elevation of the structure is what it does but, there is not any notation of that on this plat.


Attorney Altman stated, I don’t understand that. Explain what that means.


Director Weaver stated, it just means that it is not in a flood way, they do not have to go through the Army Core of Engineer to put a structure on this area. What they do have to do is, the DNR tells them what the lowest floor elevation can be and that’s what the elevation has to be.


Jay Clawson asked, that means that can’t put in a basement….


Director Weaver stated, if they do it has to meet that lowest floor elevation.


Jay Clawson asked, it has to be so?


Director Weaver stated, that’s right.


Attorney Altman stated, that’s not shown on the plat.


Director Weaver stated, the special flood hazard area is not noted on this plat but, we can get that prior to a secondary. This is for primary.


Don Ward stated, they have the elevation here 652’. That means that they have to be 654’. The lake is at 648’, there’s not a chance that they will get the 652’.


Jay Clawson asked, would you go on the record with that though?


Don Ward stated, yes, I’m not even afraid to go on the record.


Attorney Altman stated, I didn’t hear you, what are you saying on the record.


Don Ward stated, it will never get to 652’, which is what they say.


President Anderson asked, 652’ is the lowest point?


Don Ward stated, you have to be 2’ above the lowest point. They didn’t say he had to, they say they recommend it.


Attorney Altman asked, are you certifying that?


Don Ward stated, it never has, not in my lifetime.


President Anderson asked, so do you want the flood plain put on that for the secondary?


Attorney Altman asked, so that 650’ is the limitation, is that what it says Don?


Don Ward stated, that’s saying based on their information the 100-year frequency flood will reach an elevation of about 652.0’ now, the lake is held at 648.0’ by law. When the water gets up much higher than I am, it goes right on over the dam and you have never seen it raised very much all along that lake anywhere.


Fred Boessel stated, 3 inches, is about all it will raise.


Attorney Altman stated, but, looking at that plat then, which line do they say they should not build in?


Don Ward stated, below.


Attorney Altman asked, is it the…


Don Ward stated, they say that they recommend that you stay 2’ above that which is 654’.


Attorney Altman stated, the 654’ line, which is shown on the plat and the two dwellings on in the L-1 on lot #1, are below that, right?


Don Ward stated, all the buildings are below that, except the house.


Attorney Altman stated, then the structure on lot #2 is also below that.


Don Ward stated, the 654’. They are recommending that you be 2’ above.


Fred Boessel stated, I set a transit, looked at it, I talked to Jim Milligan yesterday and he indicated in this area here, that it would be 6’ above, what he said yesterday.


Don Ward stated, I don’t know what the floor elevation is. I’m just saying that there inside…


Fred Boessel stated, we have never had a problem there.


Don Ward stated, I don’t think that you would but, see they are recommending that you stay at that elevation with your floor 2’ above.


President Anderson stated, these are existing structures anyway and there’s nothing that we can change on that but, it would be anything built after that should be built above that.


Fred Boessel stated, we have 2 lots that we want to sell and the people are going to build but, they are going to build farther up.


Attorney Altman asked, is that on lots 2 and 3?


Fred Boessel stated, yes, lot #3 is a large lot and these are taken care of already.


Don Ward asked, you want to sell these two?


Fred Boessel stated, we want these two here yes.


Don Ward stated, see, most of the land is above 654’.


Fred Boessel stated, besides, they would build up higher.


Director Weaver stated, this letter doesn’t say that they can’t build in this area, it says that the lowest floor elevation….


Don Ward stated, I would imagine that if you wanted to fill this area here and raise it so you could build closer to the lake, you would probably have to go through the Core of Engineers.


Fred Boessel stated, yes, but, I don’t think they are going to do that.


There was discussion among the Board members.


Attorney Altman stated, what I hear Director Weaver saying then is, as far as any lot on there, any building allowed would have to be built in such that the elevation was at 654’.


Director Weaver stated, right.


Fred Boessel stated, that wouldn’t be any problem.


Attorney Altman stated, I understand but, I’m just trying to say it for the record and the applicant says that wouldn’t be any problems, I hear that.


Jay Clawson asked, I know that the Sewer Board is going through there. Are there any right-of-ways that need to be recorded on this in the final? Does it need to be on the final plat, on the secondary?


Director Weaver stated I wondered that myself, I didn’t check into that.


Fred Boessel stated, from what I can read in the newspaper and what the sewer people told me, that I couldn’t build over any plan they had.


Jay Clawson stated, right, but, when you do this subdivision Jim, on your final plat, when you come back for your secondary approval, if they have a right-of-way from you to put this in, it needs to be shown on the subdivision. So that way, when you sell off these lots to these people, they know, or if there is any other utilities, they do have to show any utilities easements like N.I.P.S.CO. power or gas lines that are ran through these properties, easement and so on. So you must have that on your final plat. You need to write that down and make sure that Jim has all of your easements recorded on these before we can give you final approval


Fred Boessel stated, now all that we are interested in is those 2 lots. I’m not talking about the whole thing, just those two lots.


Jay Clawson stated, but still…


Attorney Altman stated, this says that you are subdividing the whole thing.


Fred Boessel stated, Jim was supposed to have this over here and talk to them yesterday.


Attorney Altman asked, so you want to delete lot #1 from subdividing.


Fred Boessel stated, yes, sometime in the future we will do something but, then that will have to come up again.


Director Weaver asked, so right now you are doing a 2-lot subdivision.


Fred Boessel stated, yes.


Director Weaver stated, that is not the way that Jim has drawn this up. He is showing this all as one lot, lot #2 and lot #3.


Jay Clawson stated, it’s not really creating a difference.


President Anderson stated, you could still subdivide that property later on.


Fred Boessel stated, right, yes.


President Anderson asked, so you’re not, that would be all right to leave it the way that it is.


Fred Boessel stated, all that we are selling is this lot…


President Anderson stated, you don’t have to sell the 3rd lot.


Director Weaver stated, he is making this lot #1 and this is 2 and 3, leave that all as one piece.


Jay Clawson asked, it makes it, so you can sell lots 2 and 3. You can keep lot #1 and make it so you can sell lots 2 and 3. Is that what you’re wanting to do is get rid of lots 2 and 3 here? You want to sell these two lots?


Fred Boessel stated, this lot was already subdivision years ago.


Jay Clawson stated, but, you want to subdivide these two pieces of property then.


Fred Boessel stated, yes.


Jay Clawson stated, see you can sell these two…


Fred Boessel stated, yes.


Attorney Altman asked, what is the building on proposed lot #2 the 25’ x 30’, rectangle building?


Jay Clawson asked, is that a cottage?


Director Weaver stated, it’s a shop.


Fred Boessel stated, we use it to camp on years ago.


Jay Clawson asked, do you just use it as storage now?


Fred Boessel stated, yes.


Jay Clawson asked, just a storage shed more or less?


Fred Boessel stated, like a log cabin, like a house. It’s set back 55’ from the lake.


Jay Clawson stated, it’s setting within the setback lines on the lot, so it shouldn’t be any problem.


Attorney Altman stated, the only thing being is essentially it’s bound to one or two family residence.


Fred Boessel stated it will be one family.


President Anderson asked, it’s not a business?


Fred Boessel stated, no, we still own some lots and they want to come in there and build. 


President Anderson asked, do we have any other questions on that?


Jay Clawson stated, I guess I will put on mine, it needs to be shown on final plat, for final approval.


Director Weaver stated, I noted that.


Attorney Altman stated, the other thing that I guess that I’m really concerned about that and I don’t know, that it’s a subdivision issue or a zoning issue but, his variance, for a different kind of structure than they built, I think than the permit allowed. Therefore actually, if it were to be destroyed, it is a violation right now, and if it were to be destroyed, it could not be rebuilt the way that it is.


Jay Clawson asked, which lot is that?


Attorney Altman stated, lot #1, the building and that’s for the record, so the Board understands that. While that actually, honesty can not be considered to be grandfathered even because, it was done during the time when the variance required that they do something different than what they did and the permit required that they do something different from what they did. Accordingly, I’m at some what of a loss to tell what should be one here but, it clearly violates the ordinances and the permits and it can not be rebuilt where it presently is.


Fred Boessel asked, what is this violating?


Attorney Altman stated, your original variance said that you were going to put in a 26’ x 24’ building there and your surveyor says that it’s 35’ x 25’ building with some add on to it. Your building permit called for a 24’ x 26’ structure. I just read, that this is just not what was done and what was built and I think that while we can do two and 3, I’m really concerned about the violations that I find on lot #1. The fact that we have, I would guess more than 2 dwellings on the South half of the L-1 of lot #1. These are not shown, the structures are not shown on the South half of lot #1 nor, I believe, that part of the structure is on the North half of L-1 in the B-2 structure and they should be added to this.


Fred Boessel stated, what we did when we built the house, we put a deck on the front and afterwards, I closed the deck in. That accounts for that.


Attorney Altman stated, that needs a building permit to do that.


Fred Boessel stated, yes, at the time, I did not do whatever I needed to do.


Attorney Altman stated, you need to do that now please.


Fred Boessel asked, so we need a building permit for that now, is that right?


Director Weaver stated, I guess that if our Attorney says that’s right, that’s right.


Fred Boessel stated, but, as far as the distance that house is from the lake, we lost almost 20’ of shoreline on there from erosion.


Attorney Altman stated, that isn’t the elevation of the variance that I’m concerned about. I know what you’re saying and I do believe that the record should show that it met all of the improvements be shown on lot #1 and they are not. That should be a requirement and a building permit be obtained to put this completely in compliance.


Director Weaver asked, what improvements are not being shown?


Attorney Altman stated, I have driven in there and there are lots of them on there on the South half.


Director Weaver stated, if there are campers and mobile homes those are assessed as personal property.


Fred Boessel stated, there are not any mobile homes on there, it’s just campers.


Director Weaver stated, so I don’t know that you can really classify that as a structure, due to the fact that they may not be owned by the property owner.


Fred Boessel stated, they are not.


Don Ward asked, what would control it whether they are not there permanently?


Attorney Altman stated, there certainly is one that is not on the North part of that lot, lot #1 that is, I would bet is outside of the setback line on that 40’, just my eyeball tells it. It has to be and truth is, 2 and 3, I don’t think that is an issue or a problem because, they don’t have anything on there but, the lot #1 is a hornets nest of violations.


Fred Boessel stated, okay, then I will get permits for them.


Attorney Altman stated, I just feel like they should get building permits that are appropriate and if they need more variances they can do that. This is on lot #1 and they show all of the improvements, like you said Don, that are actually attached on the subdivision because, there are others, at least one. I may be wrong, the rest of them may be movable, Director Weaver. That would be the two things, that I would add.


Fred Boessel stated, Director Weaver can take care of the permits, as far as these.


President Anderson asked, do the Commissioners have any other questions on this?


With no further discussion the Board voted.


The Primary Approval Request for a 4-lot subdivision to be known as Boessel Subdivision located in Monon Township, was approved by a vote of 8 to 0, based on a finding of fact that the Standards of the Subdivision Control Ordinance have been met. 

Attorney Altman stated, the primary would be approved if you do the 5 things that have been asked of you.




#250 Nathan D. Virkler; Requesting approval of a 2 lot subdivision to be known as Kingdom Subdivision on 0.33 of an acre. The property is located in the Town of Wolcott on the northwest corner of Range Street and Blake Street. Tabled from July 10, 2000.


This request has remained tabled.




#251 Don Heiny Subdivision; Requesting approval of a 1 lot subdivision to be known as Don Heiny Subdivision located on 2.344 acres. The property is located in Lincoln Township on the Southeast corner of C.R. 475 N. and C.R. 1150 E.


President Anderson asked, do we have anyone representing this request?


Don Heiny was representing the request.


President Anderson asked, do we have anyone here with any questions about this request?


Director Weaver stated, I have received some calls on this, in the office.


President Anderson asked, where they for or against?


Director Weaver stated, yes, they had concerns on this as far as what was going on the property.


President Anderson asked, do we have anyone here with any questions?


Paul Bridge stated, I live, just neighbor’s, I was just concerned, I seen the sign out there that said a subdivision and we were concerned when I seen subdivision, I think of multiple houses and that’s what I was concerned about. I talked with these people, Don tonight, before hand and all that it amounts to is it’s a formal thing that you have to go through to set this trailer, to move a trailer in there so that’s all that I have.


Nancy Cosgray asked, we’re neighbors as well, and I had a question, how many trailers can be put on that lot?


Director Weaver stated, only one.


Nancy Cosgray stated, the trailer that is now positioned behind where they are wanting to put it, is that trailer going to be, is there going to be a trailer left there when they move that trailer to the subdivision?


Don Heiny stated yes.


Teresa Wilslef stated, we’re moving in over there.


Nancy Cosgray asked will there be another one go in there?


Steven Wilslef stated, not that we know of.


Nancy Cosgray asked, the other question that I had was, they have dumped a big pile of railroad ties out there on the property and I was concerned what they are going to do with that pile of railroad ties.


President Anderson stated, that’s something that we don’t address but, you might ask them.


Don Heiny stated, they really bought them to resale and they have sold a lot of them and as you see, they are using some of them to put their fence around there but, those will not be left on the property once we get it all sold and stuff.


Nancy Cosgray asked, so that will be in a reasonable amount of time.


Don Heiny stated, right.


Steven Wilslef stated, some of them are for landscaping.


Nancy Cosgray asked, so when you’re done landscaping then the rest of them will be gone?


Don Heiny stated, right.


President Anderson asked, have the standards of the subdivision been met?


Director Weaver stated, yes, it has and he did not show the utility easements and I have not mentioned that to him, other than that, yes.


President Anderson asked, is this for primary?


Director Weaver stated, his is for primary and secondary we have received secondary plat as well.


President Anderson asked, we don’t have the easements?


Director Weaver stated, no, the secondary did not show the easements on there either, we can get that on there before I sign that. We have 10 days before I can sign.


President Anderson stated, make this a contingency on this.


Director Weaver stated, we have received drainage approval on this as well. I do want to mention that, you do need a permit for that fence if this is approved.


Don Heiny stated, right.


Attorney Altman stated, it would be contingent upon all railroad ties being removed that are not used for landscaping.


Don Heiny stated, right.


Attorney Altman asked, I trust the Board heard that the easement for the utilities is not on this…


The board stated, yes.


Attorney Altman stated, good, I wasn’t sure. So they have to have that, before it can be approved and final it can be done continently.


With no further discussion the Board voted.


The Primary Approval Request for a 1 lot subdivision to be known as Don Heiny Subdivision located in Lincoln Township, was approved by a vote of 8 to 0, based on a finding of fact that the Standards of the Subdivision Control Ordinance have been met. 

Attorney Altman stated, the approval will be granted with the additional considerations are done and that would be that the easements be shown on the final plat. Again, this would have to be conditioned upon the utility easements being shown on the secondary plat, as it is not presently on there. You understand what you need to have on there?


Don Heiny stated, yes.


Attorney Altman stated, also, that the excess railroad ties be removed.


Don Ward asked, why does he have to take those out?


Attorney Altman stated, because, he said that he is going to and the neighbors objected to them. They may also be a pollution problem. 


Don Ward stated, yes.


Teresa Wilslef stated, we already checked with the E.P.A.


Steven Wilslef stated, the E.P.A. has already been contacted. I called them personally.


Attorney Altman stated, get it in writing.


Teresa Wilslef stated, we have it.


Attorney Altman stated, with the file.


The Secondary Approval request for a subdivision to be known as Don Heiny Subdivision located in Lincoln Township, was approved by a vote of 8 to 0, based on a finding of fact that the Standards of the Subdivision Control Ordinance have been met, primary approval has been granted and the Subdivision is in compliance.


Attorney Altman stated, again 8 votes indicated that the utility easement must be added as a condition upon the plat. 



Art Anderson stated, we have something that should be brought up for you and that’s on the Sewer Board, for you to start thinking about smaller lots for the areas that have sewer now, or that are going to have sewer, it won’t just be appeals.


President Anderson asked, for residential?


Art Anderson stated, yes, for all of the residential areas that are going to have sewer capability like all the way South of town, from the city limits, all of the way out and almost to your house. I may be stuck with the darn thing myself but, I think that they are planing on putting the thing across the creek just to make me do it, so that it looks like I’m the pinky that use to raise my taxes, he would always make me pay a little more. I think that the Board thinks that they should bore that thing under Big Creek, just to put me on it. Anyway, there is something for you to think about, the lost can be smaller in certain areas that have the sewer capability.


President Anderson stated, just trying to get people to build in those areas too.


Art Anderson stated, that way, Rick is the perfect, his wife is just thrilled do death that she is getting that out there. I hear about it everyday.


Rick Raderstorf stated, if we’re having this we don’t have the excuse that you need all of this ground now for a leach bed but, I still don’t think that we need to be building property line to property line. My concern is and I have brought this up to Director Weaver, say that down over the hill from me a guy wants to add on and you have picnics together and your kids play together and you don’t think that what he is adding on is right but, you want to be neighbors with this guy. So you’re not going to come in here and gripe about it because, of that reason right here and I think that’s putting the burden, in other words, just because they come in here and no one comes in and complains, that doesn’t necessarily make it right. I think that we have talked to Director Weaver and isn’t there some kind of a percentage….


Director Weaver stated, minimum green space.


Rick Raderstorf stated, yes, minimum green space, I think that is something.


Art Anderson stated, the thing that you’re going to start seeing like up in the Monon area and you’re staring to see it already. People are starting to buy the property next to them so that they can expand their house. You know this place use to be all fishing shacks and they use to dump their sewage right straight out in the lake. When Charlie and I was kids and swim in it, that was back when the lake was really polluted and then they come out and they weren't fishing shacks they started to be cottages. Then they started to put in septic tanks and then it started cleaning up the e-colli, at least I mean the lakes are never going to be clean and the people are starting to get the idea that this is going to clean up the lakes, it’s not going to do it but, it is going to relieve a lot of the e-colli. The thing is it is, these fishing shacks went up to cottages and now they are going to homes so that’s what, like Rick is saying, that’s what you’re going to start seeing is that people are going to start having homes instead of cottages and fishing shack up there.


Rick Raderstorf stated I just don’t think that we should put the burden on the neighbor to complain if a guy is going to build clear up to the property because, that is not going to happen and they are going to regret it.


Art Anderson stated, see that is something for you guys to figure out here, I just want to make it known that you’re going to have the capability for smaller lots now, not just a ½ acres, ¼ or a 1/3 or what ever you want.


Greg Bossaer stated, but, you have that in residential areas now anyway.


Art Anderson stated, I know that they have a minimum ½ and most of them are one. To relieve the pressure on the farmers taking out all of the farmland, you can get them down to 1/3 and ¼ or at least a maximum ½, I would think but, you just don’t need all of that land to rob from farmer land.


Gary Barbour stated, basically what you’re looking at is, a minimum and maximum of variances as to what you can get on your property then.


Art Anderson asked, you’re talking about around the lake, they are 25’ lots, I mean those are fishing shack lots.


Gary Barbour stated, it would make it easier for the Board of Zoning Appeals if you had something like that.


Rick Raderstorf stated, that’s what I’m saying.


Art Anderson stated, Rick has a real good idea about that green area, I mean that is something that you really need to start….


Rick Raderstorf stated, but, then you can’t give exceptions because, if you give exceptions or variances then you’re back to the….


Gary Barbour stated, right and that’s why you would put a minimum or a maximum of what you can do for variances and then it’s locked in.


Director Weaver stated, Tippecanoe County, what they have done with the minimum green space requirement, is put it right on their table like we have that shows their minimum lot width the minimum setback requirements. They have put it right there telling what the minimum green space requirement is and it’s a percentage of the lot area.


Attorney Altman stated, at the time that the Commissioners will pass the ordinance, we’ll grant it but, so far we have tried to do it with the 3 acre things, to modify that downwards so that we didn’t take so much out and that has been setting on the table for a long time. I don’t know exactly what the right thing is to do.


President Anderson stated, you get the farmers out there complaining that we’re taking to much land away and then you get the farmers out there because, we’re trying to restrict farmers.


Art Anderson stated, you’re not trying to restrict them, what you’re doing is allowing them to put their own subdivision in, if they want to develop their land and they can get twice as many houses in there.


President Anderson stated, we tried to do that for the farmers to knock down these 3-acre lots but, the farmers didn’t want it because, they didn’t want to be told that they couldn’t put in, what they wanted.


Don Ward stated, the truth is, we want to restrict them more than encourage them because, our opinion is, the subdivisions should be around the city and towns.



Art Anderson stated, at least around where you have your sewage capabilities.


Don Ward stated, sewage and water.


Art Anderson stated, water is not as big of a thing yet….


Don Ward stated, not now but, it’s coming.


Jay Clawson stated, it would protect the farmers a lot more if the subdivisions were all hear town.


Don Ward stated, people lived in a community area, rather than little communities dotted all over the county because, subdivisions down there by Brookston can be as big as the Town of Reynolds by the time that you get all of the people in.


Art Anderson stated, see, that’s another thing, that needs to be thought about down there for sewage to make those areas smaller than they are. Just like you are saying out there by the highway garage, all those subdivisions all out there, there is a lot of wasted land that’s to bad that has happened but, that’s what you guys have planned.


Don Ward stated, you may cost the farmer an awful lot of money if he’s selling his land 5,000 dollars an acre one way and then you’re saying no, you can’t do that and he winds up selling it for 2,000 dollars an acre, you have cost him a lot of money. It would just be better for the whole country or the whole area if everyone lived near town.


Art Anderson stated, see with us going into Idaville and helping that community, I don’t know I have a lot of problems with the sewer. I have tried to make it as cheap as possible in putting the thing in and we would like to bill, down half for all of the people on the North sewage plant, from what it was. Even with a million dollars that we have screwed away from that one engineer that we fired. We still have to bill out 45/80 and I think that it’s a good deal for the people up there even though, a lot of them don’t realize it yet. Their land values are going to increase because, they can do stuff there they were never allowed to do this before and there is a lot of plusses to the sewer. There are more plusses than there are negatives, there are plusses for you out there with this and I believe that it’s going to be a heck of an expansion for the town especially, out this way that the city will be able to. Now, the next phase, when we go through the other side of Monticello and on out that way that is going to help a lot too. I know of one industry that is looking toward Wolcott right now but, the one would be out there on the corner of Stated Road 39 and U.S. 24. The guys looking over at Wolcott now because, there is no sewer out there and that’s to bad for Monticello, good for Wolcott but, they offer a service I don’t think that it’s not going to do anything but help this community.


President Anderson stated, just along the lakes then.


Art Anderson stated, no we’re going to do on the other side of town over in East Monticello where they don’t have anything and they have a lot of problems. So that area over there, going all of the way on up North to the dam and all of that area, there is not going to do anything but increase the areas that are going to be developable around Monticello. Now, they may not have water but, if Monticello doesn’t annex it then water won’t be a problem unless, it’s a big industry that is wanting to come in there and right around there. If some of them have the water but, they don’t have the sewer and there has not been a big push into it. Now, on this side over here, going from the bowling alley area over by Dairy Queen, all of the way out there, is going to give you the capability for expansion too. All of the way to the beach and all of the way past the beach to the Country Club all of the way to our treatment plant in Monon. So there is going to be a lot of opportunities around this area for growth, housing, I think that it’s a big plus and the only thing next that is going to come, is roads and bridges. 


Rick Raderstorf stated, well, we need to set aside the areas that we want now, where we want industry.


Art Anderson stated, you’re exactly right, that needs to be done.


Don Ward stated, we really need planning, it’s pretty obvious out here at the Wal-Mart area.


Art Anderson stated, I only got stopped at Hanenkratt’s this weekend coming into town because, of the traffic backup.


Attorney Altman stated, it’s four Saturday’s in a row, I know of that happening blocked solid from Hanenkratt to Sixth Street.


Art Anderson stated, what they need is big strategic plan, I don’t know if this Board or them and them downstairs…


Director Weaver stated, Patty Kuhn.


Art Anderson stated, they need to get a strategic plan for the whole county because, just like you said, over at Brookston you have Brookston and Wolcott that should be growing at a faster rate than Monticello. Both of these areas should be just hammering with people and you need to know where you are going to go with those two areas because, Wolcott is starting to get looked at a lot and so is Brookston. Either one of those two areas are areas of the county that are places to grow and you need to give them all of the help that you can give them and all of the advice. I can foresee, from Wolcott all of the way to the Interstate being a heavy industry on the West side of Wolcott all of the way out there in the next 20 or 25 years. I mean big industry, big time warehouses and stuff all of the way out to the highway.


Don Ward stated, I think what is going to happen here, that will probably hurt the Monticello area is, I think that U.S. 24 is going to be given back to the county. The Hoosier Heartland Highway is going to pick up the flow of the traffic, take it down I-65 back through Remington and on that way. I think that will really not help Monticello at all.


Art Anderson stated, I think that Monticello really got screwed on that deal because, that thing should have been right out South of Town coming through here and it didn’t. I have no idea why, it doesn’t make sense. The big thing that was given to this community was, and to Lafayette and everyone was that the truck traffic from Lafayette to Fort Wayne, those were two areas that freight goes between. That is a crock, I can tell you, or I could have 8 years ago every sticker freight that went out of Fort Wayne and ever sticker that went out of Lafayette. There wasn’t 5 loads a week that went between those two towns, that is the biggest crock that I have ever heard from any legislators.


Don Ward asked, what about the trains in Delphi carrying the enormous amount of freight. Where do they go? Is that Delphi, or Fort Wayne area, is that Detroit or where is it?


Art Anderson asked, what do you mean?


Don Ward stated, that rail, there is a train ever two minutes.


President Anderson asked, do we have any other business to discuss?


Director Weaver stated, I just want to let the Board know that the Klopfenstein’s rezoning that we had last month was passed by the Chalmers Town Board with conditions. That is something that I was not familiar with, that’s the first time that it has happened, since I have been in the office. That is something that is allowed and I just wanted to let the Board know that it was passed with restrictions.


Ray Butz stated, same as Brookston.


Director Weaver stated, well, that one is not finalized yet but, yes, that will be coming also that will be another one in the Brookston area. I just wanted the Board to be aware of that.


President Anderson asked, they are going to be able to build what they wanted to build. Are they eventually going to pass to where it can be business?


Director Weaver stated, they did not pass our amendment where the B-2 zoning was acceptable for a store and lock building, that’s why they had to rezone to an “I” zoning. The contingency on this rezoning is when they do adopt our new amendment, then that zoning reverts back to the B-2 zoning. Now, the one in Brookston for Bartlett's is going to be a little bit different than that but, that’s what they wanted for Klopfenstein in Chalmers.


Art Anderson stated, one other thing I think that you did a good job on tonight on making your decision on that Hanenkratt thing. I was standing back there listening to that and you guys get hammered, just like I do on that Sewer Board. I think that you guys did an excellent job on that for weeding out all of the crap to make a good decision. That’s hard to do that when you have everyone, when you are up here in the alligators that you’re really out there to just pull the plug and you guys pulled the plug and did a good job on that.


President Anderson stated, you don’t make a lot of friends.


Art Anderson stated, well you don’t, I mean some of these decisions you have to take to heart, you did an excellent job on that. You can go and look in Wolcott and right in the middle of town is an elevator 5 times that size and it gets along good there. The one girl with the bird problem, you know that was a legitimate thing and the thing of it is, when they were talking about, there was no birds around there well just like she sat back there and said well, I have trees….


Jay Clawson stated, it doesn’t matter where you are when those starlings are migrating or roosting they will blacken the sky wherever they decide to sit.




The meeting adjourned.


Respectfully submitted,














Diann Weaver, Director

White County Area Plan Commission