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August 5, 2013

The White County Drainage Board convened at 10:30 A. M. in the Commissioners’ Room of the White County Building, Monticello, Indiana. Board members present were: Chairman Steve Burton, Drainage Board Member John Heimlich and Drainage Board Member David Diener. Also present were Attorney George W. Loy (Not present), Surveyor Bradley E. Ward and Drainage Assistant Mary E. Sterrett.

Also in attendance were:

B. J. Propes-White County Highway Department Kevin O’Farrell

Sharon Watson-White County Soil and Water Kyle O’Farrell

Mike Kyburz-White County Highway Department

The August 5, 2013 White County Drainage Board was called to order by Chairman Steve Burton.

The first item on the agenda was to approve the minutes from the July 15, 2013 White County Drainage Board Meeting. Board Member David Diener so moved. Board Member John Heimlich seconded the motion. Motion carried.


Next on the agenda-Drainage Review-Monticello Christian Church Addition

Surveyor Ward presented to the Board:

Engineer Todd Frauhiger not present for this review. Todd sent the following e-mail to Surveyor Ward which was dated August 5, 2013.


I have completed the review of the proposed Monticello Christian Church Addition.

In addition to our site visit last Friday, I have spoken with Jim, and reviewed the computer modeling submitted with the plans.

The new building will have a downspout system which will drain into a subsurface collection system. This system will discharge into a new detention pond which will outlet into an existing storm sewer on-site. This storm drain then discharges off-site into a city owned storm drain.

It is my understanding that you have spoken with the Mayor, and he has no objections to the submitted plan.

Based upon the site visit, your conversation with the Mayor, and my review of the submitted calculations, I recommend approval of the submitted plans to the White County Drainage Board.



Surveyor Ward recommendation was to approve the Monticello Christian Church Addition plan.

Board Member Heimlich made a motion to approve the Drainage Plan for the Monticello Christian Church Addition. Board Member Diener seconded the motion. Motion carried.

Next on the agenda-Ruth Gunther-Address the Board Regarding the E. M. Ferguson Tile Drain #691

Ruth Gunther was not present for this meeting. For better understanding of the following minutes please refer to the July 15, 2013 Drainage Board Meeting minutes.

Board Member Diener: Asked the O’Farrell’s if they had gotten minutes of the last informal meeting regarding the E. M. Ferguson Tile Drain #691 (July 15, 2013). The O’Farrell’s to get a copy of those minutes now that they have been approved by the Board. There really weren’t any decisions made or any direction it was just an informational meeting.

Kevin O’Farrell: We talked to Brad and we talked to Todd so we have a pretty good understanding. The new proposal with the plow in will save quite a bit of money. Plow in a new tile beside the old one (1) and leave the old one (1) functional since it is working. Basically run the full length. We felt like it was a really good option.

Board Member Diener: The decision making cost part of this is where everyone is hung up. They realize there is an issue at State Road 18 and that it needs to be lowered. If it is lowered there everything to the south creates a problem. So, now we are talking potentially about doing the south first.

Surveyor Ward: If we open State Road 18 to fix the issue and that does not alleviate some or all the problem then we are going to have a hard time going back to the State. Saying thanks for letting us cut the road open the last time we are glad you paid for it but we need to go in there again. That is why we have not done State Road 18 because if we are going to run a new tile that would be the time to do it, all at once.

Board Member Diener: This would be doing it from the south north opposed to from doing the north to the south, then dealing with that.

Kevin O’Farrell: Which we thought the whole idea was a pretty good option. The cost per acre was way lower. The existing tile is flowing it is just needs lowered like you are saying. Then you put a new one (1) in deeper and that is what it needs to be any way. Which that one (1) would be deeper then you would feel you could tie in laterals off of that which would actually function. If you tie laterals in to the existing tile which may or may not function because it is not deep enough. Not to get rid of the existing tile and have double flow. Everybody is not to sure with that kind of water shed that one (1) tile would handle anyway. This way you have a pretty good feeling that with those two (2) tiles could handle it. Especially with what Brad mentioned doing on the opposite end.

Surveyor Ward: That would still include separating the two (2) tiles at the outlet and re-doing the head wall. There where it runs though the Gunther farm there is probably twelve (12) inches maybe eighteen (18) inches of cover. When you get south of the highway there is probably four (4) or five foot (5) of cover.

Kevin O’Farrell: You are going to drop that water table in that whole thing. The tile that is existing above that is going to start feeding into that other. It is going to relieve the old tile so it can handle a big rain. It will already have the water table down when it feeds into the other tile. That is kind of the input that runs through our heads. If you do something like this that would be the benefit.

Chairman Burton: What it really comes down to and everybody agrees something needs to be done. What it comes down to is the cost.

Kevin O’Farrell: We thought there would be more people here. That maybe there was a vote coming up.

Board Member Heimlich: To do that you would have to have a Hearing and advertise. To advertise it we would have to have something to advertise. We have not gotten to that point yet as what we are going to advertise.

Kyle O’Farrell: Where do we go if nobody shows up all the time?

Chairman Burton: This was not an official meeting.

Surveyor Ward: This was just for Ruth to come in. She asked to be here.

Kevin O’Farrell: We have met with her because she has been here from California. She said she was going to be here. We are shocked as you are that she is not here. We didn’t call her because we thought she was going to be here. Hopefully she is alright.

Chairman Burton: When that Hearing does happen the property owners have to be officially notified. If it looks like I’m dragging this out in a way I am. As you can see in the last six (6) months how this has really changed. We all want to get a good product that everybody is ok with. I apologize for dragging this out but I think this is going to get us where we want to be in the end.

Board Member Diener: Realistically that first project with those first numbers wasn’t going to fly. If there is a project that will work and the project can be shared in some fashion among the property owners. In a manner they can afford. Then you are going to get more people on board and be receptive to this idea.

Kevin O’Farrell: It is a unique situation from our end we appreciate people listening and I’m sure Ruth does too. We are trying to work towards something like you are saying, feasible with everybody. Something that is going to work. Instead of jumping into something that keeps throwing good money to bad. That is what has been going on throwing money into something that is not working.

Chairman Burton: Check it out and we will keep talking.

Kevin O’Farrell: Any idea on when the next meeting will be?

Surveyor Ward: Maybe in September, just a guess. I am waiting on feed back for the landowners. I have not heard from any landowners accept Naomi Herron and Ruth Gunther. Other than that nobody else has written a letter or phoned.

Kevin O’Farrell: One (1) question I had as far as that amount of the water shed. If both of those tiles were functioning, we know the old one (1) probably would not be one hundred percent (100%). If the one (1) is new and they are both functioning is it big enough to take of what we are trying to do?

Surveyor Ward: I don’t know. The reason we suggested the fifteen (15) in the first place is that is the biggest you can trench in. Todd would probably have to look at more of the engineering side which he has not done a lot because we have not been given him permission to do the engineering.

Kevin O’Farrell: One (1) of the biggest problems, especially with that kind of ground, when you get a super heavy drown out, it does not drain well any way. When that other tile is not functioning right the water table never gets to a point that when you get that huge rain, the water table is so high it just can’t all work. It is doing something or the water would never go away. I think it would work.

Chairman Burton: There are still going to be wet spots. That area is still going to lose those spots when you get two (2) inches of rain.

Kevin O’Farrell: You would at least have something functioning that you could run laterals to that would work.

Chairman Burton: I just don’t want anybody with the perception that… I have got ground with wet spots and we get over a two inch rain I am going to lose ground there. A week later it will be dry. Even Dave Thomas along State Road 18 you know that ground gets a two (2) plus he is going to lose those air wells. I am not sure about the Watkins situation. That spot you are going to lose just because the water goes there.


1. Board Member Heimlich asked B. J. Propes if he had been to the Kemp’s Camp issue discussed at

the July 15, 2013 meeting.

B. J. Propes: Yes, I went out there and it was like I told you it is just that one (1) air well. I went out there and met with them. I showed the guy the tile. He said there was a tub or a tank. There is nothing there other than that air well. I told those two (2) gentleman if they would want to drain that they would have to petition for a drain. They would also have to pay for it. I think this is how it works. They would have to put it in and then there would be a maintenance fee on it. I told them to talk to their neighbors to see if they would be receptive of putting in a drain because if they are not all receptive you are probably not going to get it. Then go in and talk to Brad. The drain that is there is the farmer’s drain and goes to the north. As far as I can tell there is no drain along the road or to the south.

Board Member Heimlich: That is not a County Highway Drain?

B. J. Propers: No, but we will maintain that drain as long as it is in the Highway right-of-way. It is just really close and that is why I put a trash basket on it.

With nothing more for the Board Chairman Burton adjourned the meeting.