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November 4, 2002 Tape #021

The White County Drainage Board convened at 10:30 A. M. in the Commissioners’ Room of the White County Building, Monticello, Indiana with Board Members Ronald A. Schmierer, O. D. “Bud” Ferguson and John C. Heimlich, Attorney George W. Loy, Surveyor Dennis W. Sterrett, and Secretary Romana Kiser in attendance.


Also attending were Engineer Todd Frauhiger, Charles Mellon, Garry Cosgray, Wayne Long and Sue Long.


Chairman Schmierer opened the meeting with setting rates for Maintenance Modification on the Wilbur Timmons Drain in Lincoln and Jackson Townships, White County, Indiana.


Chairman Schmierer read statistics on the Wilbur Timmons Drain from an information sheet. The current rate is fifty cents an acre and five dollars a lot. It takes in $686.17 in the maintenance fund yearly. There are 487.114 benefited acres in the watershed plus approximately one hundred lots. The Board reviewed the financial history of the drain over the past few years, noting that the maintenance fund is currently in debt $4,799.16, seven years in the red. Setting the rate at $10.00 a lot would bring in approximately $1,000.00 per year and $3.00 an acre would bring in $1, 461.34 per year. That would get it out of debt in two years. The drain is south of Highway 24, goes southeast from Idaville and follows Stringtown Road. It is the tile that has sewage in it and is going to have to have reconstruction eventually because it is broken down.


Board Member Heimlich made a motion to set the rate for Maintenance Modification on the Wilbur Timmons Drain to $10.00 per lot and $3.00 per acre. Board Member Ferguson seconded the motion. The motion carried unanimously. Secretary Kiser stated the Maintenance Modification Hearing on the Wilbur Timmons Drain is set for December 2, 2002.


Engineer Frauhiger presented a request for exemption from the White County Drainage Ordinance from Wayne Long for Longbriar Addition Part 2. Engineer Frauhiger stated that he was able to discuss this with Surveyor Jim Milligan and get the required calculations done. Engineer Frauhiger is convinced that will not be any adverse drainage impact by these four lots. He said, “What we actually did, we assume there could be up to a 2,000 square foot house built on each lot and we assume the driveway length also to come up with the amount of impervious that we put on. The existing land is a meadow, pasture-type cover. When the houses get put on, we go to a maintained lawn, which is actually going to help the situation. At this particular point I would recommend approval for it.” Chairman Schmierer asked if detention ponds were required. Engineer Frauhiger answered there would not be detention ponds required. Chairman Schmierer asked if they have the easement, if this is the one that needs an easement across somebody else’s property. Engineer Frauhiger stated, “No, it is a defined drainage way. What we were talking about was an easement that is shown here on the plat. There is an existing drainage way down here that a fourteen inch pipe was put in that filled the swale in to Lake Shafer. There is no easement required down here.”


Board Member Ferguson made a motion to approve the exemption from the Drainage Ordinance for Longbriar Addition Part 2. Board Member Heimlich seconded the motion. The motion carried unanimously.


Engineer Frauhiger presented a request for exemption from the White County Drainage Ordinance for Schlegelmilch Subdivision which is the property north of The Anglers Restaurant in Norway. The owners are John, Chris, and Melanie Schlegelmilch.


Engineer Frauhiger stated, “They are going to separate a piece of the property off and they do not know at this time how it is going to be developed. It is zoned for business use right now. There is an existing house behind the piece of property. What is being requested is that they go ahead and subdivide it and in the future, if and when the property is sold, the new owner comes in and decides what they are going to build there; we get the drainage addressed at that time. We don’t know what is going on at this time so we are recommending at this time that they be allowed to split it, but in the future when someone purchases it, we address the drainage at that point.” Chairman Schmierer said they can’t build on it until there is a drainage plan. Engineer Frauhiger said that is correct.

Board Member Ferguson stated there is a big catch basin right there. Board Member Heimlich asked if there are any drainage problems there now. No one thought there was. Garry Cosgray stated the water problem is around his place due to water coming down the hill. The catch basin there is not big enough.


Board Member Ferguson made a motion to approve an exemption from the White County Drainage Ordinance for Schlegelmilch Subdivision. Board Member Heimlich seconded the motion. The motion carried unanimously.


Engineer Frauhiger stated that he and Surveyor Sterrett looked at the site of Glen Stockment’s proposed three lot subdivision, Prairie View Subdivision in Princeton Township. There is an existing home with out buildings and one lot proposed on each side of the existing homestead. A good portion of it is in grass and the rest is agriculture field. Engineer Frauhiger said, “The calculations were done by Mr. Grove of Lafayette, Indiana and he submitted the required drainage calculations and a very nice proposal and drainage plan that went with it. Denny and I had a change to go out and look at it, and he did the calculations correctly and we don’t see any adverse impact so we are recommending this one for approval also.”


Board Member Heimlich made a motion to accept the drainage plan with an exemption from the White County Drainage Ordinance as recommended by Engineer Frauhiger and Surveyor Sterrett for the Prairie View Subdivision. Board Member Ferguson seconded the motion. The motion carried unanimously.


Surveyor Sterrett presented a petition from Dan Hahn, Demerly, Warner and Widmer asking for the reconstruction of the Stockton Tile Drain in Round Grove Township. It terminates in the Rayman Ditch.


Board Member Heimlich made a motion to accept the petition. Board Member Ferguson seconded the motion. The motion carried unanimously.


Surveyor Sterrett reported that Richard Hubbard never picked up the certified letter that was sent to him (concerning violation of the White County Drainage Ordinance), and that the post office returned it to the Surveyor’s office after two weeks. Surveyor Sterrett reported that he delivered the letter to Mr. Hubbard in person and the next day the Surveyor’s office received a faxed letter from Mr. Hubbard’s attorney.


Engineer Frauhiger stated that the attorney for Mr. Hubbard is incorrect on a number of items in the letter. Engineer Frauhiger asked Surveyor Sterrett to show the photographs taken at the Hubbard parking lot site. Engineer Frauhiger asked Chairman Schmierer if he remembered that it was indicated there was some under drains put under that gravel. Chairman Schmierer stated, “I don’t think there was, it was indicated, we were told that.” Board Member Heimlich said, “Yes, but I seriously doubt that.”


Engineer Frauhiger stated, “There has been a pretty continuous flow of water seeping out of that gravel across the adjoining parking lot, actually a flow of water, you can actually see it flowing. And the other problem that we have with that, which we will have to respond to, in the White County Drainage Ordinance it gives required curve numbers, depending on how compacted the gravel is. It raises the curve number (it’s the impervious, how much water you take off) to almost a paved surface type characteristic. What did we find out, Denny; there is about forty thousand square feet, maybe a little bit more?” Surveyor Sterrett answered, “Probably at least that, he’s gone back in the back of his business parking with it.” Engineer Frauhiger stated, “It is compacted pretty good. Beyond the water seeping out of the gravel, when we get a good rainstorm we are going to have water flowing OVER land across that gravel across that lot. It is going to be an absolute mess. I think there needs to be a response to the gentleman’s attorney that there is some incorrect statements in his letter and give him the engineering background and still require that a drainage plan be submitted for that.” Board Member Ferguson stated that Howard’s had water bad enough when the old brick house was on the lot that Hubbard is developing.


Attorney Loy stated that he has seen the letter from Mr. Hubbard’s attorney. Engineer Frauhiger stated that the drainage characteristics of that piece of property have been altered drastically. Attorney Loy advised Engineer Frauhiger to write an engineering advisory letter to send with Attorney Loy’s letter. Engineer Frauhiger said in the letter they claim that they are not going to pave the lot. Attorney Loy stated, “And of course they will at some point.” Secretary Kiser stated that Mr. Hubbard’s attorney questioned if gravel is an impervious surface and it is defined in the White County Drainage Ordinance that it is. Engineer Frauhiger added, “Especially compacted gravel.”


Engineer Frauhiger gave an update on the proposed Unroe Drain project saying, “The survey is complete, the drawings are done, we have contacted INDOT with some elevations for under Highway 24 and we ware waiting on INDOT to schedule back on when they can get that portion fixed. We are going to be sitting down with Denny to write the final specs for the project. We have one problem with a sanitary sewer that has been installed by the Town (Wolcott), and it might require getting out of line for the existing 24 inch tile is lying. I think we have it figured out, but we do have a conflict with the existing sanitary which is laying over the top of the 24 inch tile. There’s no way to get down to the 24 inch tile to replace it without impacting the sanitary, so we might just plug it and go out and around.”


Garry Cosgray reported, “You cleaned that little branch (J. Burget Br. 5 and Nancy Hall Br. 2 project) on my farm last year and everybody was supposed to put grass in about ten feet back on top of the banks and nobody is doing it, they’re probably right at the edge of it again.” Chairman Schmierer stated, “They have to follow specs, we need to dig the specs out. The contractor was to put the grass in the first place.” Garry said, “I don’t think it read that way. He was supposed to put it back where it was existing, he was supposed to re-do ours but the rest was supposed to do that themselves.” Chairman Schmierer asked Surveyor Sterrett to look up what drain that is so we can get letters out on it. Garry Cosgray advised, “All they have to do is go to the ASCS and put it in filter strip and get paid for it.” Chairman Schmierer told Surveyor Sterrett, “We need to write them a letter and tell them it needs to be sowed in grass ten feet back per the specs and farmed ten feet back off of it. Actually, we have seventy-five foot right-of-way off of the ditch on both sides, I guess we could tell them that we have seventy-five foot right-of-way, if they want us to do that was can do that, too. If we have to start enforcing that, they’re not going to like it. They do in some counties, Jasper does, and a lot of counties do.”


Board Member Ferguson made a motion to approve the minutes of the last meeting. Board Member Heimlich seconded the motion. The motion carried unanimously.


Surveyor Sterrett reported that Mike Ezra got the contract on the Carter-Hines Drain reconstruction and he is wanting to know if he can give the logs away off that ditch. Chairman Schmierer stated he didn’t know why he couldn’t. Board Member Ferguson said they are the contractor’s logs. Attorney Loy said he does not have a problem with it. Chairman Schmierer said, “Neither do I.” Attorney Loy said the specs call for him to remove them.


Chairman Schmierer stated that we have a terrible beaver problem on some ditches this year and we are paying $50.00 per beaver to Tom’s Trap Service and other trappers to take them out. He said if we don’t remove the beavers there’s not much since in removing the dams because they come right back. He wanted to make the Board aware that this is coming out of drain maintenance, because it is going to get costly plus removing dams.


Attorney Loy advised that the Board can raise maintenance on a drain by 25 percent, on time, without notice to the landowners.


Chairman Schmierer adjourned the meeting.