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The White County Area Plan Commission met Tuesday, October 10, 2000, at 7:30 p.m. in the Commissioners’ Meeting Room, Second Floor, County Building, Monticello, Indiana.


Members attending were: Jay Clawson, Gary Barbour, Ray Butz, Ron Pollock, Don Ward, Scott Kyburz and Gregory Bossaer. Also attending were Attorney Altman and Director Weaver.


Visitors Attending were: Pat Kuhn (White County Industrial Foundation), Ralph E. Rowe, Larry Wiley, Chas. R. Mellon, Don Sneden, Bruce Lambert, Fred & Shirley Boessel, Deb Lindley, Sharon Garbinson, Ron Bassett, Buch Westfall, William Neininger, Connie Neininger, James Sawyer, Diane Sawyer, Dean Stark, Jeff A. Hardebeck, Steve Mitchell, Leona Stoller, James Pinkerton, Tim Thomas, Shelly Wyknoop, Brian Wyknopp, Stan Poelstra, Lisa Dague, Jeff Dague, Grover Medley, Rob. S. McKinney, Joe Bitters and B.J. Mursener.


The meeting was called to order by Attorney Altman and roll call was taken.

No minutes were available to approve.


Attorney Altman stated, let me announce that #722, Rose Acres Farms, has been tabled for this evening at their request. We have not actually heard what is happening but, right now, it may be in fact withdrawn. Stay tuned, call Director Weaver if anyone has any questions because, she will know, it will be rescheduled for next meeting if anyone is interested.


An audience member asked, when would that next meeting be then?


Director Weaver stated, November 13th.


Attorney Altman stated, same time, same place, right here.




#724 Jerry W. Collin, Owner; Joe Bitters d/b/a AJRB Inc., Applicant; Requesting to rezone from B-2 to I-1 on .45 of an acre. The property is located in the City of Monticello at 624 S. Main Street.


Attorney Altman asked, is there anyone here to represent this request?


Joe Bitters stated, I’m the one that is requesting the zoning change from B-2 to I-1. To make myself able to make custom cabinetry and custom wood working at that location.


Attorney Altman asked, are there any questions from the Board on this?


Jay Clawson asked, once it’s industrial, why won’t this work in some kind of a “B” zoning? There are no other industrial zoning in this area, why is it?


Director Weaver stated, cabinetry is correctly addressed in the ordinance, it falls under this zoning.


Jay Clawson asked, with this property there is, when they use to have Poncies there, there were several accidents because, there really isn’t any room to pull any kind of big trucks in off of the highway into this. There were quite a few accidents at that time and if this is going to be an industry, where are you going to park people at for this?


Joe Bitters stated, it has an area in front of the building that could be made for diagonal parking directly off of that street. In other words, when you come in you can park diagonally in front of the building, it does have a side yard to it for straight pulling in for the congestion that you’re referring to. The size of product for delivery is mostly done, in my case, would be done with pick up truck or a flat bed size vehicles. They would be under the gross weight of 8600 pounds, which would be able to pull inside of the front lot and pull in if necessarily without going out on Main Street at all. I’m not looking for a real large volume, mostly customized stuff and woodworking, more so than mass production or anything like that. That’s why we’re requesting an I-1, which is light industrial.


Jay Clawson stated, but, it’s right next door to an “R” zoning, like 15’ from the house to the North.


Joe Bitters stated, correct, there is a house to the North there is gas South and Hicksgas behind it.


Jay Clawson asked, with industrial or being any kind of industry, you can run 3 shifts with being in a residential neighborhood. What are you plans?


Joe Bitters stated, my plans are actually part time because, I have my daughter, which I’m real involved with at the high school, with band stuff. Most of the wood working stuff that I do is with directly small type of things, like I said, nick knack cairo cabinets my intentions are not even really 40 hours in the week.


Jay Clawson asked, is this going to be during the day, or are you going to be working there at night?


Joe Bitters stated, the most of it would be between the hours of 5 and 7 during the week right now. My commitment right now is, more to finish raising my children before I would do it before the hours of 9 to 5 or 8 to 5. There is a lot of work that needs to be done to the building because, of it’s age, the setup and stuff like that. I predict that it would probably take at least 18 months internally to set up all of the stuff that I need to set up, as far as doing electric properly, any codes, to bring things up to code. Like I said, they are pretty far down right now, the buildings, it took me probably a month to just clean up around the outside from all of the stuff that was laying around there and whacking everything down. So I’m not in a rush, I think that what I can offer to the community as far as in the type of wood working that I would do, would be beneficial.


Jay Clawson asked, it’s what happens after you are gone, if it’s zoned industrial that means that any kind of machine shop can go there 7 days a week 24 hours a day, right in a residential neighborhood. There’s no way that you can run any kind of special exemption on something like that, in a “B” zoning?


Attorney Altman stated, it certainly sounds like something that would be right for a commitment, that would limit what the applicant, a document that is in essence, is a commitment to this and limit activity to this much activity and to personal to his organization to his group, his use.


Jay Clawson asked, then if it would go out of business, it would be non void.


Attorney Altman stated, because, of his commitment it would then revoke.


Director Weaver stated, Jay, we have just recently done two of those, one in Brookston and one in Chalmers. It’s something that I don’t know that has been done a lot but, it something that, we have done a couple of them recently.


Jay Clawson stated, in a woodworking situation that is not as conducive to having industry semis and stuff. I would hate to see this, in your situation, the special exemption, I could live with it a lot better than knowing that if you’re gone in a year and someone is there and they want to bring 20 employees there really isn’t enough parking for 20 different employees.


Joe Bitters stated, I agree, I was thinking in the farm because, I’m thinking of moving extremely slow pace. I thought that an expansion, wouldn’t be there, I’m looking for the apertaninty being on Main Street and having a potentially, really nice storefront. If an expansion and growth would come because, location really isn’t critical for the actual manufacturing of stuff. I have already thought about industrial out in the country like other businesses have done in this town and then it would strictly become a storefront. I’m not looking at expanding anything that is on the property, as far as physical size, it just happens to be a good proper size for what I do and I’m more for the store front protection on it.


Jay Clawson asked, what would you recommend then?


Attorney Altman stated, I would recommend that he would set down and draw up a written document that sets out the use, limited use, that he is going to have limited number of employees the store front as an example of limited pricey what he is going to do.


Jay Clawson stated, right because, a lot of his business that people are going to come to are going to be like what you would do in a B-2 selling cabinets.


Joe Bitters stated, right.


Attorney Altman stated, exactly.


Jay Clawson asked, then after he is through with the property, it would remain B-2, I would like to see that. The area all around, across the street is B-2 like zoning, I would feel a lot more comfortable with that and could you help him set this up give him an idea which way to go with that Director Weaver or should he get a lawyer to draw that up?


Director Weaver stated, the others got an attorney.


Attorney Altman stated, the others have done it with a lawyer, in essence the lawyer has worked with me in drafting a document that basically outlines the use and limits the use but, allows for him or them in that case to live and prosper in those constraints. The Boards have said, the Boards by the Town Boards in Brookston and Chalmers, have said that’s okay as long as it doesn’t go any further than that in the I-1 is what you’re really saying.


Jay Clawson stated, right.


Attorney Altman stated, that would be the best thing.


Joe Bitters stated, that would be very duable.


Jay Clawson stated, I like that, do you like that?


Joe Bitters stated, I like it because, I know where you going with trying to have a factory right in the middle of your city block and I understand.


Attorney Altman stated, the best thing would be to do is, to table it this evening, to draw up this document and then we can have it to where it would be a part of the record and so other people could then see it.


Joe Bitters asked, do you have any other active working businesses in town that are operating like that right now?


Attorney Altman stated, not in Monticello.


Joe Bitters stated, I do have an attorney.


Jay Clawson stated, Bartlett Ford, isn’t that who you just did one for in Brookston? They did one for a lot that they had, people were worried about being close to residential you may be able to get a copy of that and look at it and then have your attorney draft it up.


Attorney Altman stated, anyone that has any questions about this tonight can look at it and know what they are really looking at in the way of if they like it or it’s okay.


Joe Bitters stated, that sounds good.


Director Weaver stated, before we table this, I just want to bring out one thing. We did have some documentation brought into the office this morning by Mike Sales and I don’t know if you were aware of this information or not but, I want to make it aware to the Board. It’s a report from American Technology Management Corporation, from what I understand this to basically be, saying, is that the soil is contaminated. 


Joe Bitters stated, I also have one, I guess that contradicts that.


Attorney Altman stated, it would probably be a good idea to get that together so that you can present your package.


Joe Bitters stated, sure, is it possible to get a copy of Mike Sales?


Attorney Altman stated, yes, stop in tomorrow. The matter is tabled until next meeting which is again November 13th, 7:30 right here.


Debbie Lindley stated, I want to know if the property meets the size requirements for an I-1.


Director Weaver stated, yes, it does.


Debbie Lindley asked, what size do you have it?


Director Weaver stated, 25,000 square feet, it’s almost a ½ of an acre.


Debbie Lindley asked, on a .45 more or less, so your more is almost a ½ acre, or whatever?


Director Weaver stated, it is almost a ½ acre of ground.


Debbie Lindley stated, I have 19,602 square feet.


Attorney Altman stated, the tract says that it’s 4.45 hundredths of an acre and he is requesting it be I-1.


Debbie Lindley stated, correct.


Attorney Altman stated, that is all that there is to it that’s all that I can say. If he wants to do that and do what he needs to do to sit up his business obviously, with that, he probably would need a variance. I haven’t set down and figured out how much square footage that is ma’am, I really haven’t.


Debbie Lindley stated, 19,602 square feet which is less than 25,000 square feet.


Attorney Altman stated, then if he did that he would need a variance to proceed, also in addition to a rezoning. So he would need both to proceed to be in compliance on this tract or require more ground.


Debbie Lindley stated, right, right now there is not enough ground.


Attorney Altman stated, that sometimes happens but, here we can’t second guess it, we just have to judge them when we see them but, you are quite right, that to do this on I-1 he would need a variance or more ground.


Debbie Lindley stated, okay.


Attorney Altman asked, does anyone else have any questions? Understand that it will be next meeting the 13th of November.




#725 Timothy D. Thomas; Requesting to rezone from R-2 to B-2 on lots 114 & 115 in Citizen’s Addition. The property is located in the City of Monticello on the North side of Chestnut Street, between 2nd and 3rd Streets.


Attorney Altman asked, do we have anyone representing this request?


Tim Thomas stated, I own the lots that we’re talking about. What I’m planning on doing is leveling the house down and possibly putting in a new office for our business. We’re located right straight across the street right now, to the West of the property owned by VFW. It’s a vacant lot now and then to the East of it is residential.


Don Ward asked, do you have any truck parking there at all?


Tim Thomas asked, do we have any truck parking?


Don Ward asked, will you have any truck parking?


Tim Thomas stated, I don’t plan on it right now. I haven’t even thought about that basically, the truck parking, what I’m trying to do is I’m planning on putting the office over there so we can get our cars for the office people over there and have more truck parking over where I’m at now.


Don Ward asked, you wouldn’t have any trucks running, or running all night, or anything like that?


Tim Thomas stated, no, we have been there since about 1963 and we have never had any problems over there.


Attorney Altman asked, does anyone else have any questions? Does anyone in the audience have any questions? Are we ready to vote?


With no further discussion the Board voted.


The results of the vote were as follows: 7 affirmative and 0 negative. This will be presented to City of Monticello for their action. 

Attorney Altman asked, that will be when Jay?


Jay Clawson stated, next Monday night at 7:00.




#726 Greater Lafayette Community Foundation, Owner; White County Community Foundation, Applicant; Requesting to rezone from R-2 to B-1 on 1.65 Acres. The property is located in the City of Monticello at 1001 S. Main Street.


Connie Neininger stated, I’m the Director of the White County Community Foundation, with authorization from the Greater Lafayette Community Foundation to sign for them tonight. We are attempting to refurbish the old youth center building, which is down at the South end of Monticello and make it handicap accessible. We need to tear off the old front porch and put a ramp out there. Right now, because of the zoning, it sets over the setback variance so, we need to amend that and the building is being used as Office Administrative spaces for non-profit organizations. The Red Cross, Literacy Volunteers, United Way, Family Services, the Girl Scouts, and the Community Foundation all, have their office located in the building at this time.


Director Weaver stated, just so the Board knows this is a grandfathered use, this structure has been used for this for many years. When they came in for permits we realized that they were not zoned properly so this is trying to bring this building into compliance.


Connie Neininger stated, it was actually started as a Community Youth Center in 1954, so it’s never been a house that we have found.


Director Weaver stated, I was told that it was a restaurant.


Connie Neininger stated, it was a restaurant back in the 1940’s.


An audience member stated, rather the uplifting the face of it but, there is not intended change in the use.


Connie Neininger stated, no.


Jay Clawson asked, do they have to, with the new setback for them, to put their new entrance they would either have to get a variance or bring it into compliance by putting it as a B-1. The house to the South was rezoned B-1, I would image that was the reason that Director Weaver put it as B-1 so that way you would have two like zonings right side by side.


Attorney Altman asked, are there any more questions from the Board? Any questions from the audience? Are we ready to vote? We will vote.


With no further discussion the Board voted.


The results of the vote were as follows: 6 affirmative and 0 negative, 1 abstention. This will be presented to City of Monticello for their action. 

Attorney Altman stated, again next Monday at 7:00.




#727 Jeff Dague, Owner; Tracey Deloria, Applicant; Requesting to rezone from A-1 to R-2 on 3.587 Acres. The property is located South of Monticello at 1510 Airport Road.


Steve Mitchell stated, as you have said we are trying to rezone that from A-1 to R-2. It is, I believe, West and South of Indian Hills, an existing subdivision that was rezoned. Seven days ago, I did formally place this property to be annexed into the City and they are looking into that right now. It’s not that property has to abut up to an existing annexed area, Indian Hills is not been annexed but, has applied. Once Indian Hills is annexed we could actually annex into the city under direction from Director Weaver and from Mayor Fox. I went ahead and asked for this rezoning and he quoted 2.57 but, it’s actually 3.57 acres. If there are any questions I would be happy to answer them.


Greg Bossaer asked, what is the noise sensitive?


Director Weaver stated, I can’t answer that question. This does lie directly North of the airport and on our zoning maps it is noted that it is a noise sensitive area.


Greg Bossaer asked, is that because of the airport?


Director Weaver stated, yes.


Attorney Altman stated, I’m sure that’s exactly why it’s noise sensitive. Generally around the airport, they get that sort of thing put on them.


Jay Clawson asked, are there regulations, we have never had anything like this, are there any regulations to building in a noise sensitive area?


Attorney Altman stated, I think that it’s more of a warning type thing, to users in that area, than it is a regulation.


Steve Mitchell stated, it’s something that when you do financing, you have to make your lender aware that there is a noise sensitive issue.


Jay Clawson asked, are there any types of height requirements? It is what, several thousand feet from the runway this is what, two story housing? Is there anyone here from the Airport Board?


B.J. Mursener stated, I’m here speaking for the Airport Board. It does fall within the noise sensitive zone specifically, from what at least we can find in our ordinance, does not prohibit any specific uses where Ordinances, some Zoning Ordinances do find noise sensitive not for residential use. They’re factories, commercial, etcetera because, of the noise created. The height requirements for this property are located, I do not believe the factor, it depends on the length of the runway, the weight of the aircraft but they are like 100’ or 200’. I don’t believe that a 2-story house would be an obstruction. The reason that I came this evening with, I guess a concern and knew that it was in a noise sensitive zone. The White County Airport is in the middle of the process of updating their master plan, which is 20 years old. This is a 3 or 4 month project from this point before it’s completed. Its become apparent even at this stage, that the engineers are working on it that long term for the benefit of the county and the inducement of industry, that an ideal runway length would be approximately 5,000 feet. I won’t go on about the airport but, if it is lengthened, it is necessary to widen the runway and move the taxi. One thing leads to another because, of the category of aircraft and the engineers have told us at this point. That it is very obvious even though, the master plan is not complete but, the cost of extending Southward there is a huge ditch to be filled, is very much larger than it would be to go North to eventually meet a 5,000’ requirement. Once the plan is completed, be it 2 years, 5 years, 20 years the concern is, they think that if they are land locked and the runway cannot be extended it will be a hindrance to the county. This would fall in an area that would become extremely noise sensitive ultimately, when there is an extension. So I guess not opposing a housing project in Monticello per say, we do have a concern that if it’s residential and you’re going R-2, is this for duplexes? 


Steve Mitchell stated, single family homes.


B.J. Mursener stated, I thought that you said single family at City Council, I was surprised at the R-2 zoning.


Steve Mitchell stated, it gives a guy options, right now we are talking single family homes but…


B.J. Mursener stated, but, you would have the option there but, regardless they are both residential housing. I guess our concern is to for we certainly want to let you gentlemen to be aware of it as well, as any future owner that would take into consideration. I guess that we would, if the zoning was changed and Jerry may need to answer this question. If there can be consideration to putting a requirement, a condition or something indicated on a deed that this was a noise sensitive area etcetera. It’s just kind of let a buyer know before they are there but, there is a very strong likely hood that eventually this will be it is in a noise sensitive area but, it will be more of a problem. We do not have the buyable option of going South, we don’t have a cross with the runway so this requires a long run way and we really feel that it’s hampered the industrial development in some areas in the county.


Don Ward asked, do you have enough room going North to get 5,000’?


B.J. Mursener stated, yes.


Don Ward asked, what do you have now?


B.J. Mursener stated, we have 4,000’ but actually, let me clarify because, of the ditch and the clearances, when we lengthen the runway we also have an extremely narrow runway, which wouldn’t be as critical but, there is not cross ways. You can be landing with a 90-degree wind so when you lengthen a runway, you have to widen the distance between the runway and the taxiway. We actually, would loose a portion of the Southern end of the runway. It would become an over run area as opposed to runways so, it’s more than 1,000’ that we would need, to extend the runway to the North.


Attorney Altman asked, how far is the runway to Luse Road?


B.J. Mursener stated, it’s right there now, frankly if this…


Attorney Altman asked, you would be talking about going out 1,000’….


B.J. Mursener stated, probably more than 1,000’ Jerry, we would probably loose about 500’ to 600’ off of the current Southern end. Unfortunately, the master plan that they are working on, addresses the exact, I estimate 500’ to 700’ plus 1000’ now, this may come in phases, it may go to 4,500’ but, we think that ultimately what is necessary for the business development in the county would be 5,000’. We certainly want to make sure that is available. We’re already land locked for a cross wind run way and we think that would certainly be 5 years, 10 years or 30 years that there be something available for that expansion.


Attorney Altman asked, is this about ½ of a mile away?


B.J. Mursener stated, it would be about ½ mile. You mentioned the Luse Road, and when that would happen the nice part is the Federal Government would pay 90 percent and the State Government would pay 5 percent of moving Luse Road, so at least for…


Ron Pollock asked, would Luse road be closed off then?


B.J. Mursener stated, physically, with the runway through the middle, yes. Again, we’re dealing with long range planning but, certainly ultimately, that’s what will happen someone needs to be made aware of the noise potential for it.


Steve Mitchell asked, with the value of that property obviously, with Lake Freeman being in close proximately, close proximately in my mind, I wouldn’t think that would be where an industrial park would go. In fact I have heard, has there been any looking into finding an area where it would be better suited for the airport, rather than closing roads and changing things around? Is that something that has been explored? I know in some smaller towns that has had to be done, Coverdale...


B.J. Mursener stated, it would be monumental, I will tell you a few things that would monumental money to rebuild the airport. You could not get enough out of the land, I don’t think, to do it. Number one, in the U.S. and people don’t understand some of the value of the airports. The Aircraft Association of Indiana has a study that they do every 2 or 3 years. The most recent study indicates the value of the airport to the community, on an annual basis is, about 1 million and 3 or 1 million, 400 thousand dollars but it’s really not viable. There are a little over 5,000 airports in the U.S., a little over 400 are used for heavy commercial flight and people don’t realize the value that for every scheduled airline flight, there’s 3, what we’re going to call non commercial private aviation, general aviation flights that take off. Be it business, or whatever, I think that there is a lot of value there, that people don’t perceive and I understand your question but, the tendency is that the housing grows up around an airport and it goes away and disappears and isn’t rebuilt and the area suffers historically.


Steve Mitchell stated, I was in Swokefield and Cloverdale and I don’t know that you were interested in buying those they were looking into federal moneys and they were finding a lot of matching of grants and stuff to physically relocate that airport. I mean it’s an area where residences are growing around it, Cloverdale has expanded it and now they are looking at closing streets. Much of the scererino that you are in and they’re industry in their business park was 15 miles away and it just didn’t make sense. I didn’t know that if this was a make sense situation or is it something…


B.J. Mursener stated, flights have increased and in the past, I may be misleading, I think that in the past 15 years we have gone from 6,800 general aviation airports to 5,000 flights of increase. The value of those that are there and we believe that the ones that are there are ready to serve business industry the public the community. We don’t have visions of passenger flights out of here but if it brings jobs it brings employment and many other benefits. It can be an asset to the county and we sure don’t want to jeopardize that.


Attorney Altman asked, are you saying that the noise would probably be a problem to this subdivision but, they are really not going to be in your way?


B.J. Mursener asked, physically?


Attorney Altman stated, yes.


B.J. Mursener stated, I don’t think that it would effect the free zone or the clear zone at the end of the run way and there is a site zone in the 7-1 and I think that lease would be the problem.


Attorney Altman stated, probably for them.


B.J. Mursener stated, yes, and I guess the concern is, if that is the case, that they recognize that it is within a noise sensitive zone but, 15 years we don’t want to extend the airport because of noise. We think that there is a tremendous benefit for the county there that could be lost. I should mention, Director Weaver said that it is in a noise sensitive area and there was an ordinance passed its ordinance 78-1. It was adopted by the County Commissioners on April 3, 1978 and it reads and I’m just reading the applicable portion it says, permit required to erect, add to or replace structures near public use airport until a permit has been issued by the Commission. No person may, I guess that I should look for the definition Commission and I jump down to B, to erect a residential building or other building design for noise sensitive uses. So we’re saying that a residence is a noise sensitive use, which may be a violation of your Ordinance. Within an area line 1,500’ on either side of the extended center line of a run way for a distance of 1 nautical mile from the boundaries of any public use airport. This is a public use airport obviously, it’s within a nautical mile and it is within 1,500’ to the side of the centerline of the runway. This at 78-1, that was adopted like I said on April 3, 1978. So that would be in direct violation because, it does use residential as the example be it R-1 or R-2 so, it might be a problem with the zoning in that respect.


Attorney Altman asked, they have to comply with that is really what you are saying?


B.J. Mursener stated, yes, and I don’t think that there is anyway of physically compiling with it. Again, there’s no doubt it’s within a nautical mile of the current, to the North and it’s within 1,500’ of either side of the extended centerline of the runway.


Attorney Altman asked, could you leave a copy of that with us?


B.J. Mursener stated, I certainly can and I think that I have a copy of where it was adopted also.


Attorney Altman stated, so that we can have that in the record.


Steve Mitchell asked, is this an issue of the Indian Hills Subdivision? It’s obviously a nautical mile off.


B.J. Mursener asked, of the nautical mile?


Steve Mitchell stated, yes, Indian Hills would be within a nautical mile, I mean if we are then they obviously, are too.


B.J. Mursener stated, I would think that the 1,500’, yes.


Director Weaver stated, I don’t believe that they are in the noise sensitive area though.


Attorney Altman stated, the permits issued by this body and they would be limited by that they may have big trouble. Like it said, to erect any residence or building or any other building designated for noise sensitive uses would be 1,500’ either side extended centerline of the urn way the distance of 1 nautical mile, boundaries any public use airport they may very much have a limitation?


Steve Mitchell asked, who?


Attorney Altman stated, this applicant, the White County Commissioners adopted this March 21, 1978.


B.J. Mursener stated, it was actually April 3, 1978, in the minutes, that they did adopt it.


Attorney Altman stated, this would be another one that I would recommend that be tabled and look this over before you proceed make sure you don’t have a big problem.


B.J. Mursener stated, I think that it says that you have the authority to issue a permit but, I think that this is my interpretation that a residential building or other buildings signed for noise sensitivity uses. Someone can argue what is noise sensitive but, as an example right in the statutes residential. 


Attorney Altman stated, residential normally is business or factory…


B.J. Mursener stated, the examples, the type of recommendations in model zoning ordinance or noise sensitivity, to give you a real very quick and brief synopsis of it….


Steve Mitchell asked, is Country Brook Subdivision in a noise sensitivity area?


B.J. Mursener stated, it could be.


Don Ward stated, it’s in a mile.


B.J. Mursener stated, on the map, I would have to look again.


Director Weaver asked, I could look on the map. When was it built?


B.J. Mursener stated, I don’t know, I didn’t live here when it was built.


An audience member stated, 1970.


Director Weaver asked, after the Ordinance?


Jay Clawson stated, probably before.


Don Ward stated, before the Ordinance.


B.J. Mursener stated, again, the map outlines….


Steve Mitchell asked, when would we know on this master plan?


B.J. Mursener stated, when the master plan comes out, it’s probably 3 to 4 months before it’s completed. It’s a very lengthily process and we had a meeting last night on other matters, regular Airport Board and they were to the stage that they knew which direction the expansion had to go. Before it’s all official in the plan, will be 3 or 4 months but, the engineers has said that there is no likely hood of going South because you’re probably talking double in the cost or something like that.


Steve Mitchell stated, we’re talking about going South to use up ground that your saying it’s hills, dales and hollers it’s really not high use land…


Don Ward stated, ditch.


Steve Mitchell stated, ditches, so if this airport is indeed and asset that is extremely valuable to the community, something worth that value I mean I’m fighting for mine and you’re fighting for yours. I’m not fighting for it you understand, what I’m trying to say, I’m trying to look at feasibility.


B.J. Mursener stated, I understand what you’re saying.


Steve Mitchell stated, I feel that high is the best use of mine and obviously, it’s a residence. The highest and best use for scrub ground would be the airport to go South and use that existing…


B.J. Mursener stated, airports tend to, like level land and if it cost 1 million or 2 million dollars to extend into it…


Steve Mitchell stated, you have settling issues and all of those issues.


Attorney Altman stated, I think that we could do it this evening but, I think that it would be….


Steve Mitchell stated, gentlemen, I would like to table it in light of what has come up. I appreciate your honesty.


Attorney Altman stated, November 13th.


Sharon Garbison asked, could I say something first, ask a question?


Attorney Altman stated, yes, ask a question.


Sharon Garbison asked, I’m representing the Twin Lakes Gymnastics Building which is directly next to what you’re wanting to do…


Steve Mitchell stated, to the South.


Sharon Garbison asked, I guess that our concern is, I’m just listening to what the Airport thing is but, on our spectrum of what we’re looking at is the concerns of having it rated R-2. The possibility that there could be duplexes there which to us the distance, I don’t even feel like that is a consideration. Single family homes….


Steve Mitchell stated, the highest and best use for that property is single family homes….


Sharon Garbison stated, right why can’t that be changed to an R-1 rating so we would be guaranteed that would happen.


Attorney Altman stated, that’s up to the applicant to decide that’s all that I can say. It’s yours to stand up and say what you’re saying.


Steve Mitchell stated, the reason that we rezoned to an R-2 is further down the line if a situation would come up on a duplex or someone would want to have an office in the home or something like that. I’m a mortgage broker, I have an office in my home and an R-2 allows you a little more flexibility and freedom when you get into those areas. It is not our design or our intention to put duplexes in there.


Sharon Garbison stated, that’s why I like the R-1 rating so that we can make sure that is taken care of.


Steve Mitchell stated, if so, be it, an R-1 would full fill our requirements. I’m not sure, I think that some of it may have been with the setbacks from the road and the way that the land is set in there why we posted an R-2 designation.


Sharon Garbison stated, I also don’t know if you are required to tell me, can you give me an idea of what size of a home you want to build? The size that the lots are going to be and that type of thing, since they’re right next to you.


Steve Mitchell stated, we’re a lake community and we’re out by Indian Hills, I’m not going to be targeting a 185,000 to 195,000 dollar homes, I’m looking at homes probably 1,200 to 1,500 square feet with a price tag of about 85,000 to about 125,000 that’s what we’re looking at.


An audience member asked, are these going to be subsidized homes?


Steve Mitchell stated, at Indian Hill are they 2,000. Is that what they are?


Sharon Garbison stated, yes.


Steve Mitchell stated, 1,200 would be the minimum. The home that is there now is about 2,000 square feet depends on how the house is set on there.


Sharon Garbison stated, I’m not a resident out there but, to make everything comply so it looks all the same it seems to me like that would be, you would want to have the same type of home off of that. Then if there’s another addition put in there we would want that same value of home and you want it reproducing that same value. We don’t want cheaper homes in that area at all it’s got to be something comparable to what is already there.


Steve Mitchell stated, this market, in Monticello, will only bear so many, 180,000 to 225,000 dollar homes. If the market will bear that yes, we will put those in when we bought the property. We bought it specifically the idea of remodeling it and there’s 3 ½ acres there. My son rides dirt bikes and we have horses and that’s probably is what is going to be stuck out there, horses and dirt bikes but, this is what I do for a living and I would like to be able to…


An audience member stated, put a hog farm out there.


Steve Mitchell stated, I could put a hog farm there, if I wanted but, that’s not what I’m here for…


Don Ward stated, if it’s R-1 you’re not putting…


Steve Mitchell stated, it’s A-1, that’s not what I want…


Attorney Altman stated, this matter is tabled, let's proceed on.




#728 Leona Stoller; Requesting to rezone from A-1 to I-1 on 22.85 Acres. The property is located North of Wolcott on the West side of C.R. 900 W., approximately ¼ of a mile North of U.S. Highway 24.


Attorney Altman asked, do we have anyone representing this request?


Larry Wiley stated, I’m here representing the Stoller family on the next 4 requests. The request is to change the property from A-1 to I-1 on these 4 pieces. All 4 of the pieces are together, they are on the North end of Wolcott. It has been in the past undesignated as an Industrial Park, we have been doing the zoning piece by piece. At this point, we would like to do the whole section for the purpose of being ready for any future growth in the Town of Wolcott. We have tried to plan the growth of Wolcott ,so that we keep the industry in an area so that the rest of the 3 sides could be used for the expansion of residential living. That’s our whole purpose at this point there’s no one interested at this point we just want to change it from A-1 to I-1.


Jay Clawson asked, are you planning on making this an industrial subdivision sometime? Now, it seems like the way that a lot of this has been just selling off, the frontage on 24 and you’re not utilizing your back area.


Larry Wiley stated, there are plans, one of our present factories, businesses there, Right Way Sealant. They want to add extra ground right now, once they buy the next 5 acres. I believe they are going to put a road from there on 900 back to the end of their property so that opens up that rear end. Are there any other questions?


Director Weaver stated, we have had some calls and concerns regarding these 4 rezoning. I’m not aware of anyone here in attendance on these.


Attorney Altman asked, are there any other questions from the Board? Are there any questions from the audience members?


Shelly Wynkoop stated, I’m an adjacent landowner, my husband and I own a home on Highway 24 right across the street of the 3 lots on 24. I guess that I’m a little confused, I have spoke with Larry, I have spoke with I believe, Pat Kuhns and I spoke with Jim Mills who is a Commissioner. I have heard of 180-degree opinions and answers and I guess that I’m looking for a truthful answer. We live there, we want to know how it is going to effect our property and our life. We are very concerned, we have one of the most improved homes in Wolcott we have sunk everything into this home and we’re pretty disappointed, one person said, if I was in your shoes I would be extremely concerned. Someone else said, that it isn’t going to bother you at all but, it is across the street from us so, I do have questions.

I know that there are 6 plots and I just wonder, are they planing 6 factories? Can these plots be subdivided into more plots? I heard that they were 20 to 40 acre plots and I don’t know how large this industrial park is planning on being across the street from us.


Attorney Altman stated, the total acreage is how much Director Weaver?


Director Weaver asked, Pat do you know about the total acreage?


Pat Kuhn stated, about 165.


Attorney Altman stated, 165 total acres, all of the rezoning together that are continuous.


Shelly Wynkoop stated, I was under the understanding that, there was 6 plots and I didn’t know if those then could be subdivided.


Director Weaver stated, yes, they can.


Shelly Wynkoop stated, so there could be a dozen companies eventually?


Director Weaver stated, yes.


Shelly Wynkoop stated, I did have another question, are there any companies presently? One person told me that there were two companies presently interested and someone else said that there was none. I just wanted to know is there any plans in the works? 


Larry Wiley stated, I can answer that. We have the Right Way Sealant, who is wishing to purchase an extra 5 acres and their plans are to put a building on that for warehousing. We have another company that is presently interested that will go directly North of them. At this point, they have not purchased the ground so, it may or may not that’s it. As far as your house I have been in banking for 30 years where your houses are at and where this is rezoned, your value of your house is not going to go down from that.


Shelly Wynkoop stated, but, we’re even looking at across the street…


Larry Wiley stated, it’s already there.


Shelly Wynkoop asked, we just want to make a decision, do we need to relocate it’s a monumental decision for my husband and I?


Larry Wiley stated, it’s already a busy highway.


Shelly Wynkoop stated, but, it could be busier, one woman that I spoke with said that there could be an ingress and egress area off of U.S. 24. I’m assuming that people are going to want to access off of U.S. 24, what is that going to do with traffic there entering town?


Larry Wiley stated, a lot of that has to do with, the State of Indiana, there is an ingress slow down area it would probably be West of you.


Shelly Wynkoop asked, would there be limits on truck traffic or times trucks run? Can it be all night? I have done a lot of research, I have spoke with other people that live in areas similar that have been industrial parks who are not really happy, they said that they have trucks all night, they have noise.


Larry Wiley stated, again, you live on U.S. 24, U.S. 24 is one of the busiest highways East and West.


Shelly Wynkoop stated, but, it’s trucks coming and going, we don’t want to see semis coming at our house and if that’s so, we have the option to move. We just want to be very informed as matter of fact, Pat that I spoke with, said this is the time to be coming before them and make a decision, don’t sit and let it happen to you.


Larry Wiley stated, we really don’t have any pure answers for that because, all that we’re doing is asking for a rezoning.


Shelly Wynkoop asked, how much is it being promoted?


Larry Wiley stated, we don’t really promote it, they have been coming to us because, from Wolcott to Remington or I-65, is the hottest area in the county right now for industry.


Shelly Wynkoop asked, once this is rezoned, what are my rights as a citizen, do I find out what happens across the street or is it just going to happen? Will I be notified before?


Attorney Altman stated, if it’s rezoned, if it’s subdivided then it would have to come before the body but, if they rezone and sell it off in appropriate amounts of land, they would just do that.


Larry Wiley stated, the communities’ plans right now are not to subdivide it off into 15 or 10 acre plots.


Shelly Wynkoop asked, how would it benefit me? How is it to benefit the Town of Wolcott?


Larry Wiley stated, if you look up town, we don’t have very many businesses. The enrollment in our schools are down, we need housing real bad and if we don’t have jobs in our community we’re going to dry up and blow away.


Shelly Wynkoop asked, so, are we going to be sensitive and selective about who we do let in?


Larry Wiley stated, we have been, we don’t want any recycling plants.


Shelly Wynkoop stated, that’s a concern.


Patty Kuhn stated, I’m the one that spoke with you on the telephone and as I indicated in some of our previous conversations this property has been available for sale for years….


Larry Wiley stated, over 10 years.


Patty Kuhn stated, 10 years and the Industrial Foundation when prospective companies are looking for property in White County the Industrial Foundation supplies. This piece of property as one that we feel that is developable. In order to make that process easier for those prospects, this is just one simple step along the way.


Shelly Wynkoop stated, you’re really trying to promote it right, you anticipate there being activity.


Patty Kuhn stated, I don’t see that rezoning this property is going to cause indignation of industries to that area. This is a very minor step and also as I indicated on the telephone, this is not something that is going to be unattractive or offensive. If you’re not offended by Dyer Instruments you’re not going to be offended by any of the development that is going to go on in this area potentially, over the next 10, 20 or 30 years.


Shelly Wynkoop stated, down the road from us we have large cement buildings and to me they are offensive looking, out my front yard. I think that it would be offensive and there is no guarantee here, I will not be informed in advance of this is what is coming I will find out in the paper with everyone else I guess even though I’m not adjacent land owner.


Attorney Altman stated, if it’s rezoned, yes ma’am.


Ray Butz stated, I think that you will find out that everything is gong to expand towards Brookston and Wolcott.


Shelly Wynkoop stated, I guess that’s what I want to know I want to be informed. I want to make the decisions, do I need to leave my home is it going to be something that I can live with and is this going to happen in 5 years is it going to happen in 10.


Patty Kuhn stated, all that I can tell you is, if only two industries have sited there in 10 years, I think that you are pretty safe.


Larry Wiley stated, 20 years.


Patty Kuhn stated, 20 years.


Shelly Wynkoop asked, is it being promoted more now than it has been in the past?


Larry Wiley stated, no.


Patty Kuhn stated, no, it’s not. This is really just a very simple step to help us move along, be more proactive and be prepared with sites in our county to offer potential industrial sites. I think that the I-1 classification has limitations and I will defer this to someone that knows better than I will but, it has limitations on the types of operations that can be…


Shelly Wynkoop asked, are their limitations as far as noise amount of traffic?


Larry Wiley stated, not in and I-1, not on traffic.


Shelly Wynkoop stated, distribution plans and such.


Patty Kuhn stated, I think that distribution is I-2.


Attorney Altman stated, the products it’s more assembly, not manufacturing and distribution and that sort of thing.


Larry Wiley stated, we’re not rezoning it for heavy industry.


Patty Kuhn stated, there is not going to be smokestacks, there is not going to be anything….


Shelly Wynkoop stated, but, I see like recycling plant is one of the categories.


Larry Wiley stated, no, not as long as I am there.


Shelly Wynkoop stated, that’s my concern, I wondered if they are going to be sensitive to us and if the town itself would be…


Larry Wiley stated, we are going to be sensitive to the Town of Wolcott, I live there also. The reason that I got into this 20 years ago was to keep the value of my property up because, I could see the city going down and loosing value. I was going to loose money, so I got involved to keep the community alive and that is the whole purpose for this.


Shelly Wynkoop asked, so are we looking at businesses, will this be considered? Are we going to get businesses that are well paid? I guess that’s my concern too, how selective are we going to be?

Attorney Altman stated, I can only tell you from a zoning point of view we have no control over that so it just really doesn’t have relevance in the conversation.


Shelly Wynkoop stated, so once it’s zoned, it’s up for grabs.


Attorney Altman stated, like we were talking about the size of the home, we don’t control the size of the home so in the last rezoning that you had seen people can talk about it and you can talk about it. You might feel better but, you can’t get an answer here, we don’t sort at that level.


Shelly Wynkoop stated, so once it’s rezoned then, anything is possible truly.


Director Weaver stated, just so that you know in the Ordinance like a recycling or a waste facility does also require a special exception before they can go in on it zoned. Those type of businesses you would be notified of them if you are an adjacent owner.


Attorney Altman stated, further action would be necessary before they could go get in there and do that.


Shelly Wynkoop stated, I guess that’s all that I have.


Attorney Altman stated, thank you very much.


Ralph Rowen stated, I’m from Wolcott and I’m a member of the Wolcott Development Commission over at Wolcott. I live right beside the elevator where we have plenty of noisy trucks and everything and as far as noise elimination, you’re semis are going to increase instead of decrease. They live right on the highway and I know what noise is as far as semis are concerned but there isn’t anything that we can do about it and future development won’t effect that at all. The factories, the two factories that we have, have practically no noise and any that we have in the future plans, noise is not a factor it’s not something that their pounding steel or something like that like. Over at Remington, where they have that turnbuckle place out of town there is a lot of noise but it wouldn’t involve that at all. The Commission is in favor of this proposal of this rezoning it, thank you.


Jeff Hardebeck stated, I own the land that is just to the West of this property. I have owned it for 5 years. I guess basically, I just wanted to come to the meeting tonight to see if there is anything planned for the property. I’m all for expansion and new businesses coming to Wolcott, I’m in Wolcott everyday, so I wanted to come and say hey, I’m a property owner right next to it to the West and I have no problems with this.


James Pinkerton stated, I own the property directly to the East of the property that Jeff Hardebeck was just talking about. I have a simple questions for your Board, you just made a comment that you can ask the question but, you can’t get an answer and that’s what the property owners are trying to….


Attorney Altman stated, what I mean is, if it is properly zoned and they have enough land and they get a building permit, they can build and that’s all that there is to it, there is no notification. 


James Pinkerton stated, I understand that I’m wondering why we have to come over here to find out what we found out. I brought Leona Stoller over, she is my neighbor, I found out more on the way over here than last week on the telephone for 2 ½ hours. Is there no one that is supposed to soften the blow. I’m not opposed to the rezoning, at all I would just like to be better informed and like to find out who is suppose to inform me.


Attorney Altman stated, I can’t answer that all, that I know is what the Ordinance says. I know what they are requesting and what they are requesting, if it is approved, it’s controlled by the Ordinance that’s about all that I can say. If they don’t, they are limited by the Ordinance again, as to what it’s presently zoned for and that’s about all that I can say. To say more than that is to mislead, that’s all that I’m trying to say because, people can get a false sense of security when it isn’t there.


James Pinkerton stated, I understand that.


Attorney Altman stated, or a false sense of urgency when it isn’t there too.


James Pinkerton stated, I can agree with that, that’s all that I wanted to know.


Attorney Altman asked, does anyone else have anything that they want to say? Are we ready to vote?


With no further discussion the Board voted.


The results of the vote were as follows: 7 affirmative and 0 negative. This will be presented to the County Commissioners for their action. 

Attorney Altman stated, that will be next Monday morning at 8:30 in the morning right here. They have the final say just like the City Council has on the other matter.




#729 Leona Stoller; Requesting to rezone from A-1 to I-1 on 40 acres. The property is located North of Wolcott on the North side of U.S. Highway 24, approximately ½ mile West of C.R. 900 W.


Attorney Altman asked, this is immediately West of this is that, right?


Larry Wiley stated, this is on the far West.


Jay Clawson stated, you skip over two properties, it’s the Stoller property, farthest West.


Attorney Altman stated, along 900, thank you. I would gather that this is similar and that the questions and the responses are similar is that right? We can reproduce the record to show that the questions and objections and comments both for and against or just inquiries would be replicated on this request that we would proceed on that. Is that right in the interest of saving time? We will do that.


The results of the vote were as follows: 7 affirmative and 0 negative. This will be presented to the County Commissioners for their action. 

Attorney Altman stated, next Monday morning at 8:30 at this place for their final action.




#730 Ron & Shirley Stoller; Requesting to rezone from A-1 to I-1 on 20 acres, 20.16 acres and 38.506 Acres. The property is located North of Wolcott on the North side of U.S. Highway 24, approximately 1/8 of a mile West of C.R. 900 E.


Attorney Altman stated, again, I ask that the record be replicated, both the responses and the inquiries and the request in this matter. We will proceed based upon that since this request is so similar. If there are no objections we will do that.


The results of the vote were as follows: 7 affirmative and 0 negative. This will be presented to the County Commissioners for their action. 



#731 Gary & Diane Stoller; Requesting to rezone from A-1 to I-1 on 20 Acres. The property is located on the North side of U.S. Highway 24, approximately ¼ of a mile West of C.R. 900 E.


Attorney Altman stated, again, immediately joining the same other 3 tracks of ground and we will replicate the record in this matter as we have in the last 3 so that your concerns and objections and responses are given due waive in response.


The results of the vote were as follows: 7 affirmative and 0 negative. This will be presented to the County Commissioners for their action. 

Attorney Altman stated, again, Monday morning 8:30 right here. They have the final say, if you have any concerns or objections, you need to be here. Does anyone have any questions? Does everyone understand that? The Commissioners have the final say right here next Monday 8:30.




#249 Fred Boessel; Requesting approval of a 4 lot subdivision to be known as Boessel Subdivision on 2.45 Acres. The property is located in Monon Township on the Southwest corner of Monon Road and Bedford Bay Court, also known as 6464 N. Bedford Bay Court.  

Attorney Altman asked, do we have anyone representing this request?


Fred Boessel was representing the request.


Attorney Altman asked, do you have anything to submit to the Board tonight?


Fred Boessel stated, just what it says on the paper that you have there. It’s two lots really, now if we say 3 lots are we talking about the whole piece of property?


Director Weaver stated, right.


Fred Boessel stated, so what does that involve, what we have talked about so far?


Jay Clawson stated, the last time when you had some problems or some things that needed to be corrected before we proceeded with the secondary like some small buildings that, I think, I’m not exactly sure, Attorney Altman, you’re the one that had some questions.


Attorney Altman stated, I don’t have the minutes here nor, do I have my specific questions, Director Weaver have you reviewed that to see if it’s been modified to what they Board’s and my concerns were?


Director Weaver stated, the one thing was the flood area. What Jim did, he has shown the flood area on the secondary plat but, he has also given us a revised primary plat which you have a copy of that shows the flood area in conjunction with the existing structures. That was something that we should probably have in our files so that we would know that. The other thing is the sewer right-of-way needs to be shown. He said that there is no sewer right-of-way, it is in the actual road right-of-way, so it is not separate from the right-of-way on that. The North building needed to have a variance filed on it, we do have that variance filed at this time it is on the agenda to be heard at this months B.Z.A. meeting which is next week. We have also included after discussion that Gary and I had this morning we have also included to bring that camp ground into compliance because, he is planning on continuing the campground use on lot #1 so that variance will also include to bring that back into compliance. That’s all that I have noted.


Attorney Altman stated, as I understood what they really needed was lot #2 and #3, that’s what they are selling.


Fred Boessel stated, right.


Attorney Altman stated, and these other matters that are subject to a request for a variance can be bifurcated and settled later. If we allow and lot #2 and #3 to be subdivided and approved, that this gets them off of their rock and a hard place and they do need to get the other into compliance. They are working on that with Director Weaver and I think that we can proceed basically, on lots #2 and #3 and approve that. Obviously, on 2 they do have one building that is outside of the building area. For the record and they understand this, that it’s also in the flood fringe area and that cannot be rebuilt if it’s destroyed. It has to be built, or anything, within the setback area of lot #2 and #3. So otherwise, I think #2 and #3 comply completely with the requirements of the subdivision ordinance. Is that right?


Director Weaver stated, yes, something that I will mention also Jim did revise the setbacks from the water to go in compliance with the letter that we received from the DNR so they don’t have your standard setbacks due to the floodway fringe area.


Fred Boessel stated, this place here is actually 55’ from the water.


Director Weaver stated, it’s fine as long as it stays as is. If it were destroyed it could not go back in that location.


Ron Pollock stated, it’s the grandfather clause, it stays there, and if it is torn down you can’t rebuild back here.


Fred Boessel stated, I understand that on these two lots the people are going to build way up here.


Attorney Altman stated, I think that we’re ready to vote on the request to subdivide lot #2 and #3 in the subdivision.


Director Weaver stated, there are no improvements to be made, no road improvements or no improvements of any kind that I’m aware of.


Don Ward asked, subject to what conditions?


Attorney Altman stated, I think on #2 and #3 there are no, subject to.


Don Ward asked, in other words, were not approving the whole subdivision?


Attorney Altman stated, yes, just #2 and #3.


Don Ward stated, then that’s a condition.


Attorney Altman asked, lots #2 and #3 comply right?


Director Weaver stated, but, if you’re only approving #2 and #3, what are you doing with lot #1?


Attorney Altman stated, they have to get the variances.


Director Weaver stated, okay, so basically, lot #1 will be approved contingent upon the variances passing, the special exception and the variance for the setbacks. 

Attorney Altman stated, obviously, 2 and 3 are okay but lot #1 isn’t.


Don Ward asked, what happens if one of the variances aren’t approved?


Attorney Altman stated, they have to bring it into compliance on the Subdivision Ordinance. 

Director Weaver stated, the BZA meeting falls within our 10-day waiting period, so I can’t sign the plat until after that anyway.


Attorney Altman stated, on lot #1, it would just have to be one that’s all and they could do that, it may not be easy but, they can do that. 

The Secondary Approval request for a subdivision to be known as Boessel Subdivision located in Monon Township, was approved by a vote of 7 to 0, based on a finding of fact that the Standards of the Subdivision Control Ordinance have been met, primary approval has been granted and the Subdivision is in compliance.


Attorney Altman stated, subject to lot #1 being approved on the request for the variance and the special exception. 



#252 Grover Medley & Rob S. McKinney; Requesting approval of a 51 lot subdivision to be known as Hedgewood Estates on 73.678 Acres. The property is located Southwest of Monticello on the West side of C.R. 425 E., approximately ¼ of a mile South of C.R. 175 S. 


Rob McKinney stated, I’m the developer, we’re requesting approval to put a 50-lot subdivision on land owned by my grandfather, Grove Medley. I’m here to answer any questions that you have.


Jay Clawson asked, do they already have approval for the drainage on this?


Director Weaver stated, not at this time. They have to have that prior to secondary.


Jay Clawson asked, this is just for primary tonight?


Director Weaver stated, yes.


Rob McKinney stated, it’s for primary and Jim Milligan doesn’t have the drainage done.


Attorney Altman asked, do you have a copy of your drainage proposal?


Rob McKinney stated, no, not yet, it’s still in the preliminary stages.


Attorney Altman asked, do we have any questions or comments from the Board? Director Weaver do they meet the requirements for their subdivision proposal?


Director Weaver stated, yes, they have.


Attorney Altman stated, obviously, we would discuss the Drainage Board’s approval in a matter like this and have some more copies of the drainage plan, that is not presently there and is not even in existence. Part of the subdivision is this complying with the subdivision ordinance.


Director Weaver stated, yes, it does.


Attorney Altman stated, the proposal before us.


Director Weaver stated, I would like to point out to the Board that he has done something that I think is a good thing on this subdivision. He does have a recreation area laid out on this subdivision. It’s something that we don’t often get.


Greg Bossaer asked, I assume that there is no way water and sewage would go out there.


Director Weaver stated, we have discussed that, no there is not at this time.


Rob McKinney stated, not at this time, sewage is I think 1-½ miles.


Director Weaver asked, did you talk to anyone and ask them if they will do something?


Rob McKinney stated, they said at this time that they hadn’t planned on going out that far yet.


Jay Clawson stated, we would have to leap frog real far to try to get that far because, you have to go, on annexation you can annex adjoining properties so you would have to leap frog like he said a mile and a half out. We would have to take to Sixth Street, we would have to take all of the Kraybill farm and then go through Moose Lodge Addition and then go over. What the next road over?


Rob McKinney stated, yes, 425 East.


Attorney Altman stated, which, is very unlikely.


Jay Clawson stated, yes, it would be very unlikely that the City would have the money at this time to do that.


Attorney Altman stated, we’re looking at it from and A-1 subdivision, with water and septic. That doesn’t mean that they couldn’t put a mound system in there.


Jay Clawson stated, true, I can’t even comment on water but, water would probably be a more duable thing to get out there than to get sewage out there. It would be a lot less costly to have municipal water that way but, I can’t speak, I’m not the Mayor.


Attorney Altman asked, any concerns from the Board? Do you have a concern sir?


Dean Williams asked, yes I do. I own the property immediately South of there. How do we get information out there on what is proposed and what is going to happen? I think that there is a very definite water problem there that has to be addressed before anything can be done. That whole proposed lot almost drains across my land and if you roof it, black top it and everything else it’s costing me productive farmland. How do I find out information about this?


Attorney Altman stated, I guess that you come here and ask your questions and look at these plats of the plans that we have here sir and we would be glad to share those and look at them.


Dean Williams stated, you couldn’t make this decision in 2 minutes. This is something that has to be studied.


Jay Clawson stated, I understand, he is here asking for primary approval tonight.


Dean Williams asked, how can you get primary….


Jay Clawson stated, then you have to go, it has a two step process. Then he has to have a drainage plan drawn up and submitted and an engineering firm that works for the county has to approve that plan is not damaging your property. It has to have a certain release, that’s why we adopted this is so that it doesn’t create problems in development for other property owners. That’s the next step that he has to do, he has to have an approved drainage plan before he can go to the next step.


Dean Williams asked, isn’t this suppose to be advertised other than a little piece in the back of the paper?


Attorney Altman stated, it’s not required to be by the ordinance.


Jay Clawson stated, just notifying the property, the adjacent property owners.


Dean Williams stated, I have not received any notification and no one else that I have talked to has either.


Jay Clawson stated, it should have been.


Dean Williams stated, well, should have been and is, is two different words.


Rob McKinney stated, that’s not my job to do that’s, Area Plans.


Director Weaver stated, that is something that we do and I’m looking here to see exactly who we did notify.


Rob McKinney stated, you might not have been notified because, I don’t think that you’re a direct boundary.


Director Weaver stated, you would have to touch this property.


Attorney Altman asked, do you have that information?


Director Weaver stated, no, I don’t but I can go to the computer in the office and look.


Rob McKinney stated, his property doesn’t directly touch the property that is being proposed for development.


Attorney Altman stated, that would be the reason why you would not get anything other than that. I don’t know other than the departments, they are for you to come in and look at, that’s all that I can say. Look at these maps, we would be glad to share that with you this evening and it may not be as much as you want but it’s more than if you don’t. If you want to come up and look at this, we would be glad to share it with you.


Don Ward stated, there would have to be a drainage plan there may have to be water on the county. That will be determined and will be approved by the County Commissioners.


Dean Williams stated, there’s county tiles in there…


Don Ward stated, that would have to be taken into consideration.


Rob McKinney stated, the county tiles that flow into that now, is sufficient for a subdivision. We’re proposing which also flows on to your property too. We’re proposing a 12” drain that flow into the ditch, which is marked, on the map there which should be more than adequate to drain that center low spot.


Director Weaver stated, sir, you might want to contact the Surveyor’s Office and talk with them about how their procedure is in addressing the drainage plan because, that is who that goes through. I don’t know if they have a notification of the process or not but, you might want to contact them.


Greg Bossaer stated, but, that all has to be done before a secondary.


Director Weaver stated, prior to our secondary, right.


Attorney Altman stated, the open ditch is the ditch that is down hill about ¼ of a mile away right, ½ of a mile away?


Rob McKinney stated, yes.


Attorney Altman asked, how would you be getting to that open ditch?


Rob McKinney stated, 12” tile.


Attorney Altman stated, I understand but, over whose ground?


Rob McKinney stated, I’m not really sure how we are going to get there yet. There are two different routes to go on that.


Attorney Altman asked, are you talking about going across his ground?


Rob McKinney stated, no.


Attorney Altman stated, so he has indicated that he is aware of your water concerns. Again, like Director Weaver said, I would sure contact Mr. Raderstorf about the drainage, the Surveyor’s Office and then get copies of these plans and get looking at the plans so that you can get your input in there.


Dean Williams stated, like I said, it’s buried in the back of the newspaper and no one knows until it happens.


Rob McKinney stated, if anything, we’re going to help your water problem we’re not going to hurt you. We’re talking about putting in 125,000 dollars worth of tile, if that doesn’t drain that area, nothing is going to drain that.


Dean Williams stated, I’m more concerned with surface water, if you would run that down hill, I’m down hill.


Jay Clawson stated, he would have to have retention ponds.


Don Ward stated, catch basins to pick up all of the water.


Dean Williams asked, where are you going with it?


Don Ward stated, you retain it and slowly let it out.


Jay Clawson asked, have you been by what Dick Harner did across from him, down on Airport Road? They had to go through the Drainage Board and if you see the East end of that property, they dug up a retention pond, everything drains into that. Then it has a small diameter tile outlet that will slowly release that water out instead of it all moving at one time.


Dean Williams stated, what proposal, what kind of houses are going to be built, how many? You know how many, there is going to be 59 of them, I think is what the lot says doesn’t it?


Rob McKinney stated, 50.


Director Weaver stated, we have the restrictions too.


Jay Clawson asked, he has restrictive covenants, would you like to see this?


Attorney Altman stated, I would suggest that you go into the Area Plan Department and get a copy of the file.


Jay Clawson stated, they have all of this information and you can get a copy of it.


Attorney Altman stated, I understand that the notice in the paper, you saw it and you might say that it wasn’t enough but you saw it and you’re here. If you want to get answers to the questions the department has that and you’re more than welcome to it.


Dean Williams stated, well, I would just like to know what is going on, it does effect me. The difference to me is price of good agricultural ground against a swamp. I want to be assured somehow that this isn’t going to happen, that’s what I’m after.


Attorney Altman stated, that’s probably through the Surveyor’s Office and the County Commissioners, through the Drainage Board, that would be looking at those specific issues next and they would be submitted in their specific plans to do that next. 


Dean Williams asked, when is that meeting?


Attorney Altman stated, I don’t think that it has been, if they don’t have their plans to them, it’s not even close to being set to a meeting. I would really go see Mr. Raderstorf and probably one of the Commissioners or a couple of them and say I’m here voice your concerns to them and then be involved.


Dean Williams stated, that’s what I’m trying to find out.


Attorney Altman stated, I understand.


Jay Clawson stated, Rick would probably get a hold of you once he gets the drainage plan to let you know when that Drainage Board meeting would be. He would probably be courteous enough to do that if you tell him that you are concerned and that you really want to be there, I think that he would be a nice of enough guy that he would keep you informed when that is going on.


Attorney Altman stated, and you can go in ahead of time and look at it, I’m sure. It’s not a secret.


Dean Williams stated, I didn’t mean that it was being a secret.


Attorney Altman stated, no, I say that just generally.


Jay Clawson stated, I think that if he knows that you want to be at that meeting, he would inform you of when that was coming up.


Attorney Altman stated, obviously, they need a retention pond on this subdivision. They are going to have to modify this primary approval, assuming that they get primary approval to add that to it somewhere, somehow or add land to it that allows that. That has to be approved, also in a primary basis and so what you’re saying is once you get the proposal here, then they have to go get the drainage. If the drainage says that they have to change this, then it has to come back to get approved here also based upon the changes. The best way to keep informed is contact Director Weaver’s department and Mr. Raderstorf’s department and again, talk to the Commissioners so that they know that you are concerned. Is there anything else that the Board can see done?


Jay Clawson stated, we couldn’t approve the secondary until the drainage is approved for that.


Attorney Altman stated, based on Director Weaver’s recommendation, the physical standards of the Subdivision Ordinance had been complied with. We approve it but, that doesn’t mean that when they come back they haven’t changed them too and that has to be approved too because, if they need retention plans which I haven’t see any of the most recent subdivisions that haven’t had to have that.


Ron Pollock stated, that letter that you have in your packet, you will see on the last page the restrictions that he has put in there. They look pretty good to me, on the last page if anyone moves in there, they would have to abide by those.


Attorney Altman asked, are we voting on this matter, or do we still need more discussion?


With no further discussion the Board voted.


The Primary Approval Request for a 51 lot subdivision to be known as Hedgewood Estates located in Union Township, was approved by a vote of 7 to 0, based on a finding of fact that the Standards of the Subdivision Control Ordinance have been met. 

Attorney Altman stated, we have indication that the drainage plan needs to be approved otherwise, the standards of the subdivision have been met on primary approval. Do you understand where we are?


Rob McKinney stated, yes.




Director Weaver stated, I want to discussion this matter with the size of the lots that was brought up on the variance. Where that came from is the Town of Idaville, the residence as I understand are not happy with us because, we did not bring that subject up at the time that you rezoned the Hanenkratt property in Idaville. It does not meet the minimum size requirement in our ordinance that has set up but no where in the ordinance does it say in order for them to rezone that they have to meet that minimum size requirement. So that’s where those two ladies were coming from that is why they were questioning it. I consulted Attorney Altman about it and he agrees with me that our ordinance does not say that it has to meet that minimum size at the time of the rezoning. It may be something that maybe we want to think about and possibly amend to our ordinance. There has been talk that the people of Idaville are going to appeal the decision of the County Commissioners on the Hanenkratt rezoning.

Also, I want to let you know, which most of you already know, we are getting a building inspector starting January 1st. It is not going to be called an inspector, it’s going to be called a building Commissioners, salary is 30,000 dollars. I don’t know if it is part time or full time. It is not part of my budget it is a separate budget all of it’s own and I’m understanding that is not going to be under our jurisdiction. I think that it is going to be controlled to the County Commissioners.


Jay Clawson asked, they haven’t even, the last time that I talked to them, set what criteria that they are going to use, what codes they are going to adhere to.


Director Weaver stated, Jay, at this point, you probably know more about it more than I do.


Jay Clawson stated, nothing.


Director Weaver stated, they are not discussing the matter with me, I don’t know. I have heard more from the people coming in to my office, off the street than I have from anyone else.


Ray Butz asked, is he going to issue building permits?


Director Weaver stated, I believe so, from what I’m being told, I believe so. I just wanted the Board to be aware of what was going on. That’s all that I have.




Jay Clawson made a motion to adjourn.


Ron Pollock seconded the motion.




The meeting adjourned.


Respectfully submitted,















Diann Weaver, Director

White County Area Plan Commission