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November 1, 2004 Tape #021

The White County Drainage Board convened at 10:30 A. M., EST in the Commissioners’ Room of the White County Building, Monticello, Indiana with Board Members Ronald A. Schmierer, John C. Heimlich and O. D. Ferguson, Attorney George W. Loy, Surveyor Dennis W. Sterrett and Secretary Romana Kiser in attendance.

Others attending were Claude K. Butt, Charlie Mellon, Mike Ezra, Steve Burton, Margaret Foutch and White County Highway Superintendent Steve Brooke.

Chairman Schmierer opened the meeting to set reconstruction rates on the J.P. Carr Drain and J.P. Carr Branch #1 Drain reconstruction project. The information sheet provided by the Surveyor’s office was read: Total acres benefited 7478.922, Surveyor’s total estimated cost of reconstruction $90,556.00, 87 minimum parcels assessed at $100.00, wooded acres assessed at $4.00 per acre, hard surface-industrial acres assessed at $25.00 per acre, acres west of State Road 43 that had been cleaned out once, done on maintenance, assessed at $15.00 per acre, all other acreage assessed at $10.30 an acre.

Chairman Schmierer asked if Surveyor Sterrett wanted the Board to approve these estimated assessments this morning. Surveyor Sterrett answered yes. Chairman Schmierer stated that he and Board Member Heimlich worked with Surveyor Sterrett and First Drainage Assistant Mary Sterrett for about three hours and got this figured out. (Discussion on what was cleaned out before – see tape).

Chairman Schmierer stated he would entertain a motion to approve the estimated assessment roll (rates) for the reconstruction of the J. P. Carr and J. P. Carr Branch #1 Drain in Prairie and Big Creek Townships. Board Member Heimlich so moved. Board Member Ferguson seconded the motion. The motion carried unanimously.

The Reconstruction Hearing on the J.P. Carr Drain is scheduled for December 6, 2004 at 10:45 A.M. Secretary Kiser stated she felt they could get the landowner letters sent out from the Surveyor’s office by Saturday November 6th, in time to have it on that scheduled date.

Next on the agenda was Margaret Anderson to discuss Ray Smolek cutting her tile but Mrs. Anderson was not present. Chairman Schmierer stated, “She called me and said that Dave Downey was going to get in touch with me. She has some other drainage problems out there.” Surveyor Sterrett said, “Dave called me last week and wanted your number.” Chairman Schmierer said, “He never called me. I’ve just been waiting on him, maybe I should call him. But anyway, Smolek supposedly, she said Smolek told her that when he put a drain in he cut her tile.” Board Member Ferguson said he should’ve fixed it. Surveyor Sterrett pointed out on a map where Mrs. Anderson said the place was. He said that Dave Downey talked like it might not be cut.

Mike Ezra stated, “She called me on it and ……inaudible….. He admitted that he cut it, I think it was five years ago he put some tile in, and he said it was full of dirt and he didn’t hook it up.” Chairman Schmierer said that is what she told him. He asked if she has a wet spot in there. Mike Ezra answered it is all wet. He said, “Ray is planning on re-tiling, he bought the 20 acres next to her and going to tile that and said if she wants to hook on to it she can. That’s a whole different ballgame. He cut her tile off and, you know.” Surveyor Sterrett asked, “How do you know?” Mike answered, “If he did? Just by what he told me.” Chairman Schmierer said he didn’t have any idea where he cut it off at. Chairman Schmierer asked what the County Road is there and asked Steve Brooke if she called him on that. Someone said the corner of CR 900 and CR 500. Chairman Schmierer asked Steve Brooke, “Are you aware at the corner there, there is a Catch Basin or something that the semi trucks have run over? She said it is broken down.” Mike Ezra asked if it was on her side or the other side, there’s one on the other side that goes through Stangle, comes down the roadside and crosses the road there. Chairman Schmierer said that Mrs. Anderson said it has been run over by trucks and it is broke off and needs repaired. Steve Brooke said he thinks it is CR 625. Chairman Schmierer said he would find out. Chairman Schmierer said her brother-in-law seems to think that is part of the obstruction of water. Steve Brooke said, “So the Catch Well is mashed in. I will check it.” Chairman Schmierer said when Dave Downey calls him we will probably have to go out and look at it.


Surveyor Sterrett presented a petition prepared by Attorney John T. Million for Francis Zakrajasek to vacate a portion of the William Hickman Branch of the F. M. Coonrod Drain. Board Member Heimlich said he has been in here before and we talked about it. Surveyor Sterrett said yes, we have. Surveyor Sterrett showed the petition and location of the site to the Board. It is in Liberty Township and it is an open ditch. Chairman Schmierer said, “And he is wanting to abandon it. My question would be, you would have to have a hearing on it and who all is it going to affect?”


Secretary Kiser stated that the Surveyor’s office gave Attorney Million the watershed assessment roll so he could send letters to all the affected owners. There were 5 or 6 of them. Attorney Loy said Attorney Million called him about it and he told him he prepares the notices.


Board Member Heimlich asked why Mr. Zakrajasek wants to vacate the ditch. Surveyor Sterrett said it splits his farm right down the middle. He is going to put a tile in it. That is what his petition states. Charlie Mellon stated he should put the tile in before he closes the ditch. Chairman Schmierer agreed with that. He said he would probably have to put the tile in where the ditch is. Mike Ezra said no, it’s a real shallow ditch. Surveyor Sterrett said there is a surface drain underneath the road there.


Board Member Heimlich asked if we knew those (on the petition) were the only two affected landowners. Secretary Kiser said she gave him 4 or 5 names and he was to notify the County Highway also. Board Member Heimlich noted there was only two names on the petition, Westerhouse and Duggleby. Surveyor Sterrett stated that we got a copy of the watershed for him (Million). Secretary Kiser said actually Duggleby isn’t in the watershed anymore but he was going to notify them anyway. Chairman Schmierer said there has to be more people than that. Secretary Kiser said there was two or three more than that, we gave John the assessment roll and he was going to also mail it to the County Highway.


Surveyor Sterrett stated, “The problem I see with his legal description is, it just includes the open ditch from here for a quarter of a mile. The legal description for the regulated drain includes a tile that starts up here 720 feet and comes down here, and I don’t think that tile is working, I don’t know for sure.” Board Member Heimlich asked if the tile is big enough to take the water the open ditch takes. Surveyor Sterrett said he would say it needs to be bigger, depending on whether that 720 feet of tile is cut off or not. Mike Ezra asked how big the tile was going to be. Board Member Heimlich read from the petition, “…to replace the drainage provided by said open ditch, with perforated plastic tile eight inches in diameter for the easternmost 685 feet and ten inch plastic drainage tile for the westernmost 684 feet.” Surveyor Sterrett said it is a ten inch surface drain under the road. Board Member Heimlich said if it is an open ditch now it doesn’t look like to him that an eight inch would be big enough.


Board Member Heimlich asked Surveyor Sterrett if he has been up there. Surveyor Sterrett said, “I was up there when we did the maintenance job and cut the brush off of the ditch.” Mike Ezra asked if it is just a roadside ditch. Surveyor Sterrett said no, it is an open ditch. Surveyor Sterrett explained it is tile into the open ditch now and where the open ditch starts he is going to tile it from there on. Surveyor Sterrett showed on the map, “Supposedly there is 720 foot of tile that comes down here and then the open ditch starts right here.” Chairman Schmierer asked where the 720 foot of tile comes from. Surveyor Sterrett said, “It runs along the road, it is part of this regulated drain and that’s what I’m saying, he wants to vacate in the middle of the regulated drain. So there is still going to be some regulated drain on the high side of where he is vacating.”


Chairman Schmierer asked if there had to be a Hearing on this. Attorney Loy answered yes. Board Member Heimlich stated, “There’s a Hearing scheduled in December. I think we’ll have to go up and look at it before the hearing. Have the notices been sent out on that?” Secretary Kiser stated, “Attorney Million said he was sending the notices out that day (that he contacted the Surveyor’s office requesting a Hearing). I told him what date he would have to send them out by.” Board Member Heimlich asked, “Who he was going to send notices to for the Hearing? He’d have to send more than just these two people.” Secretary Kiser answered, “Yes, there were five or six in the watershed of that particular branch. And it was flowing that way, so he just sent the watershed of the Hickman Branch.” Board Member Heimlich stated he thought they would have to go up and look at it before the Hearing. Chairman Schmierer agreed.


Board Member Heimlich said, “My question is, this is a vacation, so they’re saying it is not going to be regulated anymore? If they are going to replace it with a tile it is still part of the regulated system, isn’t it? It would still be regulated. It is just like a reconstruction.” Surveyor Sterrett said, “His vacation notice says ‘to vacate or re-classify’.” Board Member Heimlich said, “But if you are going from an open ditch to tile, that would be a reconstruction. And if it is ‘vacate’ then it wouldn’t be a County drain anymore.” Surveyor Sterrett said, “You are going to have 720 foot of tile on the other side that you ……unless he’d vacate that tile.” Chairman Schmierer asked if he owns all that tile. Surveyor Sterrett said no. Mike Ezra said Duggleby owns that tile. Chairman Schmierer said, “Then I don’t think he can vacate it.” Surveyor Sterrett said, “Yes, if you get all those people to sign, I don’t even think you have to have a Hearing.” Attorney Loy said, “Right. And again, to vacate means it is no longer regulated.” Board Member Heimlich said then it would just be up to all of those people to do whatever they want with it.


Mike Ezra asked if it can still be a County tile if he (landowner) pays for putting it in. Board Member Heimlich said he is unclear exactly who is involved and what they want to do. He said, “If everybody agrees to vacate it, yes, then it’s just no longer a County drain and they can do whatever they want.” Surveyor Sterrett said, “He needs to add on to his legal description to vacate the tile that is coming in from the north, I think.” Board Member Heimlich said we have to make sure that everybody involved knows about it. Surveyor Sterrett said that is why we have a Hearing. Attorney Loy said you don’t want to vacate just a portion of it, it doesn’t make sense. Surveyor Sterrett said, “Not the MIDDLE portion anyway. So, he had a surveyor out there and surveyed the open part of the ditch that is on his property that they want to vacate. That’s where that legal description came from (on the petition).” Chairman Schmierer said, “But they didn’t do anything with the 720 foot of tile.” Surveyor Sterrett said, “And I’m not so sure that is even hooked up to it anymore, I don’t know.” Chairman Schmierer said it will have to be checked. Chairman Schmierer, Board Member Heimlich and Surveyor Sterrett will go look at it Thursday morning.


Steve Brooke was present with concerns about the Renwick Branch of the Amelia Suits Drain project. Surveyor Sterrett explained this was a proposed friendly cleanout project that Milt Cole requested. He stated that County Highway Superintendent Steve Brooks has some concerns about the roadway along CR 900 East. Superintendent Brooke stated, “I don’t want to stop anybody’s drainage. I’ve said for years that ditch ought to be moved because of the muck along the road. I heard you are going to be cleaning 3 ½ to 4 ½ feet out of it. I guess if you are cleaning it and not lowering any pipe it is not going to be worse than it ever was. There needs to be some precaution taken to stay away from the road.” Board Member Heimlich said he remembers that was brought up when the project was discussed.


Chairman Schmierer asked if they have brought a plan to Surveyor Sterrett yet. He answered yes they have. Mike Ezra stated he disagrees with Steve Brooke, he thinks it will be worse after it is cleaned. Steve Brooke said, “You will never maintain the ditch the way it is and eventually you will be working on the ditch and the road all the time. I built that road up fifteen years ago and it is back down to where water runs over it.” Mike said that is what is in the ditch. Steve said, “I don’t think the County Highway needs to spend, a rough estimate I’ve been told, $100,000.00 to shore the road ditch up. I could buy a lot of right-of-ways for that.”


Chairman Schmierer said, “We talked about moving it in that last meeting. Were you hear at that last meeting (Mike)?” Mike answered, “Yes, that one landowner (Farnsworth) didn’t even want the spoil put on his property.” Steve Brooke stated, “I think the Drainage Board needs to refrain from putting open ditches near roads, they are dangerous and a maintenance expense that you or I either one doesn’t need. They’re all over the county; it’s not just that one. It has been a problem for years; I guess it probably won’t get any worse.” Mike Ezra said, “I kind of disagree with that, I think it will get worse.” Chairman Schmierer said, “I wonder, when we dip that, if within six months the road isn’t going to be in there.” Mike Ezra said that is exactly his opinion of it. Steve Brooke asked, “Then whose responsibility is it going to be?” Charlie Mellon said there is one that is fixed right up north of Buffalo. It was moved away from the road about thirty feet.


Attorney Loy stated, “Everyone was wanting me to write up paperwork for everybody to sign to allow Mr. Cole to do this, and that’s fine, but if you don’t want to do it…” Chairman Schmierer said, “Well, we’re probably going to have to look at the plans, it might have to be moved over whether he (Farnsworth) wants it over there or not, probably still going to have to move it over.” Mike Ezra asked what you do in a case like that; can they be forced into it? Chairman Schmierer said, “You would have to buy the right-of-way I’m sure, wouldn’t we Steve?” Steve Brooke said he is not against it. Chairman Schmierer said, “I know what you’re saying. You and I talked about this. We don’t need to make a problem that is going to be worse for the County; if the road falls in we could be spending more money there than we’d spend on a cleanout.”


Attorney Loy stated, “The County will be responsible for the road.” Steve Brooke said now is the time to right the wrong. Attorney Loy said, “Re-route it, that would be a reconstruction.” Board Member Ferguson said, “It would have to be moved over all the way from where it comes under the road, wouldn’t it. It is worse down there where it comes around that curve there in front of Gross’s.” Steve Brooke said, “That’s already got piles driven there, even at that it is not right. The pipe under CR 900 E needs to be longer, it’s not long enough, it’s on a skew, the road is barely twenty feet between the guard rails. There’s not enough berm along there to put a guard rail in and keep it.”


Board Member Heimlich asked, “What are we talking, a half mile, three quarters of a mile?” Steve Brooke answered, “At least 800 feet.” Others thought it was probably a half mile. Chairman Schmierer said, “To put piling down for a half mile, I don’t know how much that would cost.” Steve Brook said he was given a rough estimate of $150,000.00 Friday. Board Member Heimlich asked if it is all Farnsworth property in that half mile. Charlie Mellon said yes, on the east side. Board Member Heimlich asked if we were going to move the ditch, what are we talking, ¼ mile or ½ mile? Mike Ezra said he figures it is every bit of a half mile. Mike Ezra said he doesn’t think there will be any volunteering of right-of-ways.


Steve Brooke said, “If you suggest we move the road, that’s possible, but I’m not sure I’d want to put a jog in a through road. You know that’s a major connective road.” Mike Ezra said that it is muck on the other side, too. Steve Brooke said he knows it. Chairman Schmierer said, “So you haven’t gained anything by moving it.” Steve Brooke said no. Steve Brooke said if you moved the road very much you would be right in Kilmer’s front yard plus you would have a jog there at CR 175 and he didn’t think you would want to do that. Chairman Schmierer asked if you would have to have 30 or 50 feet to move it. Steve Brooke said he didn’t think 30 feet away from the road would be too much. Chairman Schmierer said if you moved the ditch you would have to have more than 30 feet. Mike Ezra said, “My thought is, I’m trying to figure out how you are going to get that berm back up.” Steve Brooke stated, “If you want to seriously consider, I don’t think you would have to completely move the ditch, you’d have to move a little more dirt, move it east.” Mike said, “In order to do that, you are going to have to dip the ditch, get the spoil out and turn around and put the good dirt back in because you can’t put dirt on top of that spoil and ever make it firm up. You have to get the slop out of it first.” Steve Brooke said, “I’m not too good to say clean it and we’ll just watch it and somebody is going to have to address it sooner or later.” Chairman Schmierer said if you did move the ditch you would have to ballast the whole thing along side the road anyhow. Mike Ezra said if you put the dirt back up against it why would you have to ballast it? Chairman Schmierer said he still thinks you would have to ballast it. Mike Ezra said, “If ballast will hold it then you should dip the ditch and put ballast on it and hold it that way, but I don’t think it will.” Chairman Schmierer said, “Well, it hasn’t in the past has it, Steve?” Steve Brooke answered, “It’s in the muck, it’s going to hold for a little while, but it’s…..inaudible…”


Claude Butt stated, “If you take three or four feet out of that won’t that help remove some of the saturation?” Mike Ezra said yes it will, there’s a good point to that and it is definitely saturated very badly. Board Member Heimlich said, “The bottom line is, to do all that you are going to have to get over into Farnsworth’s property and he was the one that was the problem anyway so I’m not sure we’re talking about a friendly cleanout if you’re going to go more over into his.” Mike Ezra said it’s not going to be a friendly cleanout anyway if you are going to reconstruct it. Surveyor Sterrett said you would have to get DNR because you’re filling the other ditch back in.


Claude Butt stated, “From my observation, I would think that Mr. Farnsworth would gain fifteen or twenty acres of farmland by draining that because he can’t get in there, it stands with water in it, it is almost ditch level. There can’t be more than 200 or 300 feet of muck through there. It’s got to get into better soil when it goes north, from the south turn going north.” Surveyor Sterrett asked if there is any chance of leaving a ledge in there. Mike Ezra answered yes but he thinks if you go back in a week it will be back in the bottom. Steve Brooke asked, “Where do you mean, where it comes from the east to CR 900 and goes north?” Mike Ezra said, “Where it comes across Milt Cole’s ground and then turns right along the road, at that turn until it starts going up the hill.” Board Member Ferguson said, “That water never looks like it moves, it just sits there.” Mike Ezra said, “It can’t move much, there is basically no fall there now. We put a new tile in maybe five years ago, we put it half way under water, and now there’s a foot and a half of water on top of it. That’s how much it backed up in five years and I think most of it is that muck right there.” Steve Brooke said a lot of that could be silt washed down there. Mike Ezra said every time a tree limb falls in that silt stops at that tree limb and stops it up, and there’s trees all the way through there. Chairman Schmierer said, “Well what do you think we ought to do with that, let them go ahead, not let them go ahead, or what?”


Steve Brooke stated, “Like I say, I probably over-reacted.” Mike Ezra said, “I’m still more concerned than you are evidently.” Steve stated, “Even if you put sheet piling along there, the road is still going to settle.” Mike Ezra said, “Two things that’s going to happen, with sheet piling, you have the base there and the second thing is you drop the water level by three feet, you slide that upper dirt out.” Steve Brooke said, “In muck you never have a base. In another place we have a bridge that crosses muck and the road keeps settling at the approaches every year.” Mike Ezra said he has no idea how deep that muck is. Steve said he’s been told sixty feet. He said, “If I’m only going to have to do something with it every fifteen years….” Mike Ezra said, “Maybe hadn’t ought to worry about scratching up that bank and go ahead and crowd that ditch all we can and they always say not to disturb the soil but in that case ……inaudible…..we may crowd back just a little extra far so ….inaudible….because that is awful steep there and really needs pulled back away from the road there.” Chairman Schmierer asked, “Back toward the road or the other way?” Mike answered away from the road. Surveyor Sterrett, “You’ll start at the outlet, right? So you are going to get the water off of that down there.” Mike said, “I don’t think there’s any way that can be done in one pass, lower that a little bit and let it set and ……inaudible…..before go all the way and that will help keep the road in shape a little bit longer, give it a chance to dry out before you take a bunch out and slide it in. The strange thing is if you think about it, that bank on the far side is sand, not muck so……..inaudible…..That’s why I’m thinking a couple of sections of sewer here and there between there would be a plus for it.” Steve Brooke asked how big they would have to be. Mike Ezra said he didn’t know. Steve said you’re talking quite a bit of money. Mike Ezra said flat bottom sewers carry more water so you could get by with smaller sewers if they are flat bottom.


Chairman Schmierer asked do we want to hold them up; do we want them to go ahead, what do we want to do? Steve Brooke said, “If they stay on, crowd the east bank it is probably not going to be any worse than it ever has been.” Claude Butt asked if there is a road tile on the west side that would help take the saturation. Steve Brooke said he doesn’t think there is. (Ezra and Brooke discussion inaudible, see tape)


Steve Brooke stated, “It was mostly an awareness thing, I guess.” Surveyor Sterrett said, “That’s why that ditch is in the shape it is in, no one ever wanted to touch it.” Chairman Schmierer said, “It says here (Ezra’s specs) he is going to do everything on the east side on the Farnsworth property.” Attorney Loy asked if Farnsworth will agree to that. Mike Ezra said, “That’s what I understood at that meeting, that it was agreed upon right then and there.” Chairman Schmierer said he agreed upon it there. Mike said, “I talked to him personally afterwards because one of the guys said that one of the reasons he was against having anything on his side was because last time whoever did it buried brush and didn’t get it buried enough. He had brush sticking out of the ground. So I personally talked to him and assured him that will not happen again, I’ll make sure everything is covered plenty deep and he acted like he was satisfied with everything when he left.”


Attorney Loy stated, “To begin with, what I think I can prepare is a document where all the landowners say, ‘forget a Hearing, we are going to give Mr. Cole and Mike (Ezra) permission to enter upon the land to do this specific work, and Cole pays for it all unless he passes the hat and gets the donations.” Chairman Schmierer said, “Ok, that’s what we agreed to do before so I’d say go forward with it.” Mike Ezra said, “I didn’t know if Milt was going to try to get money or if he didn’t want to mess with it.” Attorney Loy said that will be up to him. Board Member Heimlich said we won’t be involved in it. Attorney Loy said that Mike Ezra’s description of what he planned to do was good enough as far as he was concerned, unless one of these people have objection to it. He said to protect the County all of the affected landowners have to be on board with this. Chairman Schmierer said we told them that before. Mike Ezra said, “Christ is one of them that….inaudible…..I don’t know what Christ knows, but we will have to be on his property. He has trees that are….inaudible….and we have to get on his side to get to them. I mean we are going to try not to put any brush on his side but we still have to track across that side.” Attorney Loy said, “And here you say on the Christ land you will have to clear from both banks.” Mike said, “If it is possible I’m going to try to take everything down in the ditch and take it on across, but still you get on that side to make sure the trees don’t fall….inaudible…I’m not guaranteeing we won’t have to put brush on his side, but we are going to try not to. That’s why I state it the way I am so he knows it is possible we could have to put some brush on his side. The biggest trees on the whole ditch are on him. There are eight or ten big cottonwoods falling in. Down at the very bottom I think is where it says we have to get on him.” Attorney Loy says it doesn’t say anything about disposal. Mike said if it is not worded right, you tell me what we need to re-word. Attorney Loy said, “I’ll have something for him, for everybody. Again, everybody is, you are going to have to get 100 percent approval.” Mike said, “Which will be a matter of going around and getting everyone to sign it?” Attorney Loy answered yes.


Next on the agenda, Mike Ezra was present to show a drawing of the DeVault Branch of the William Marion Drain and discuss repair needed. Mike Ezra explained to the Board, “This ditch comes along here and this is the County Line Road of Pulaski and White County, ll00 North. The main drain comes all the way from way up there two miles away, all the way down through here. What I’ve done, I used to farm all of this and about three hundred acres there. That tile never would take water. Every since I bought this farm over here I have worked on that ditch…..inaudible….which has been fifteen years and this tile has never taken water. We couldn’t get along with Charlie (Morris) that well as far as…..inaudible… we went in here and we put this open ditch in all the way through and we cut through this tile and opened it up. Now the water comes both ways back here…inaudible….now they have two washouts out here that they want fixed and we dug this one up….inaudible…it’s stagnant but most of it is going that way and we came down here and dug it up and that’s a fifteen inch tile and it didn’t have room for your finger in it.” Surveyor Sterrett said, “That’s how all this started, I sent Mike out to repair.” Mike said, “This section through here is about 300 feet and it would have to be all replaced but we’re afraid even if we replaced all of that….inaudible….so, the alternative that we were wanting to talk about, was the possibility, he would like to just abandon this tile, because what his big problem is every year they get big rains he has major washes to fix. He keeps losing his ground. He’d like to just abandon the tile up to this point, tear out all that six inch tile, pick up the tile that is over here, they’ve got a couple of tile over here that drain into this. They’d like to run a tile through this swale through here water flows clear across it. He’d like to abandon this tile and put a six inch over to pick up these two tiles and let this drain into this drain. I talked to Martin Sandberg because that is a private ditch and make sure it was ok him and he said after all eighty percent of the water is mine that comes in there. So he does not have a problem with letting the water go in there but a little worried about the legal part of it.”


Chairman Schmierer said, “So you want us to abandon the County tile.” Mike said that much of it, yes, and then its new opening will be into that ditch. Chairman Schmierer asked what County tile that is. It is the DeVault Branch of the William Marion Drain. Mike said it is just straight down the road to the west of his house two and a half miles. Charlie Morris is the owner of the ground it is on. Surveyor Sterrett said, “What’s happened, this tile…..inaudible……….” Mike Ezra said, “……….he wants that six inch tile put in there.” Chairman Schmierer said, “He wants the County to put it in?” Mike Ezra said that is the way he understands it. Chairman Schmierer said, “It would have to be petitioned and I’d say go from there.” Mike Ezra asked, “What is the situation as far as closing the tile? That’s what needs petitioned?” Chairman Schmierer said they both need petitioned, you’ll have to get the landowners for it, the watershed and we’ll have to have a Hearing on it. Board Member Heimlich asked if he is just figuring on putting it right aside of the one that (is being vacated). Mike said, “The new tile? Yes, just laying it right beside the other. It would be a lot higher.” Board Member Heimlich said, “That would be a reconstruction, we wouldn’t need a petition to vacate that, I would just be a reconstruction. If he was going to vacate it, that would mean nothing was going to go in its place, but if he is going to put another one right beside it, that’s reconstruction. (Mike Ezra said it would be smaller.) Yes, but it would still be reconstruction.”


Mike Ezra said, “The other thing he doesn’t want done, when he abandons it he don’t want it just left alone, he wants to go every 100 feet and break it down and cap it and destroy it so they don’t have to keep fixing it. He wants it destroyed, every year he has tile holes out there and he has these pockets out there where it has been repaired.” Board Member Heimlich said if he’s got that many tile holes, it has got to be taking some water. Mike Ezra said it probably is, backwards, because that tile always runs backwards to some degree, but you can’t see nothing coming out in the ditch. Chairman Schmierer said, “I’d say you have to petition both ways then, to vacate and put a new one in. That’s what he’ll have to do.” Attorney Loy said it is mainly reconstruction. Board Member Heimlich said, “I would say it is mainly reconstruction if he is going to put it right in the same place.” Attorney Loy said, “Yes, and that’s something we bid, right? And we would authorize HIM to take out the existing line; we aren’t going to pay for that, are we?” Board Member Heimlich asked if it is clay. Mike Ezra said it is cement. Board Member Heimlich said you could probably just take the tiling machine and crush it. Attorney Loy said, “Who are we talking about? (Charlie Morris) He wants to just be able himself to take out the old stuff and fill it up? I think it is reconstruction. I don’t think you are abandoning anything, it is still in the same path and we just let him know yes, you can do that as long as you don’t hurt the new line.” Mike asked, “What if he was to abandon that and pay for putting the new line in by himself?” Board Member Heimlich said, “Then he would have to vacate because it IS a County tile.” Chairman Schmierer asked if it serves anyone but him. Mike Ezra said, “Well, not exactly because like I said we cut that tile off and it runs into that ditch and goes a different route now. So there’s no water from anybody else going through that tile at this point.” Board Member Heimlich said so he’s going to pay for it all anyhow. Mike Ezra said well he didn’t WANT to. Board Member Heimlich explained, “Well, but if there’s nobody else on the assessment roll, he’s the only one going to get assessed. That’s the only way the County does it is through the……” Mike said he wants to use County money.


Surveyor Sterrett said if we reconstruct that tile he’ll be the only one on the assessment. Board Member Heimlich asked if there is money in that ditch maintenance fund. Surveyor Sterrett answered $6,000.00. Mike Ezra said, “Let’s back up a minute, we’re stepping over bounds a little too quick I think, because legally and technically this other drain, there’s no records of it, there’s nothing there, so the County tile still goes all the way through there even though it is dumping into this…inaudible…ditch. Legally that drain is still there and he says it is fine to fix that one but if it is not fixable this is his other alternative. So if they don’t want to pay for that, I’m sure when I go back to him, he’s going to say fix the other tile and we’re talking more money to fix the other tile, that’s the problem. Just to fix what we KNOW is bad will probably be $2,500.00 and that’s just what we know, there may be a lot more. Because of the fact it is a legal drain and that new ditch is not a part of the County ditch or anything, that’s what scares me, the legal situation.”


Board Member Heimlich asked, “What is your estimate cost to do what he wants to do with that old tile, to destroy it?” Mike answered $2,200.00 to put a new small tile in there.” Board Member Heimlich said he’s not talking about a new tile, just to crush whatever he wants to crush. Mike answered $300.00. Board Member Heimlich said, “But see the $300.00 maybe we could take that out of Maintenance to do that, but the others……” Mike Ezra said, “Well, we’ve got $100.00 used up trying to find the problem.” Board Member Heimlich said, “But the other he would be just as well to do himself because he is the only one that would be assessed on it anyway. The only thing the County has is the assessment. So he wants money taken out of this Marion Drain to do that.”


Mike said he doesn’t know if it is right to abandon that tile since the other ditch is not a County drain. Surveyor Sterrett explained that to the Board with a drawing. Chairman Schmierer stated, “I think we can pay for tearing the other one out and vacating but I think if he’s the only one on the assessment he should pay for it (new one) himself. You can tell him what we’ve said.”


Next on the agenda was discussion of additional payment on the Cartmell Drain that was billed by Claude Butt. Surveyor Sterrett explained, “Back in April Claude called and he was dipping out his private ditch and he thought that 300 to 500 feet of the Cartmell should be dipped out to get good flow, so I said that would be alright to take it out of maintenance. Evidently they went farther than that. They needed (to dip) more to get the flow. So this is what Claude had written in here (copy of letter shown to Board). And, we paid Allen Howe $500.00 for that part he dipped out of Cartmell maintenance, but he went farther than 500 feet. He went 2340 feet.”


Chairman Schmierer asked, “He had to go that far to get the drainage?” Claude Butt said, “Yes, to get, well, yes there was more in there, once he took some out, it was obvious that I was not going to get my fall. It was obscured by the amount of water in there; you couldn’t tell how bad it was. Most of that damage occurred earlier in the Spring when we had those floods, it slipped in.” Surveyor Sterrett showed the Board a map and asked if he went down to Meents’ line. Claude answered, “Yes, he started at Meents’ line and went to the northeast across that Cole land and then it turns north. There were about five landowners involved that benefited from this.” Board Member Ferguson asked, “This ditch runs between Jerry Skinner and Cartmell?” Claude answered yes. Chairman Schmierer asked for the Surveyor’s opinion on it. Surveyor Sterrett stated, “It needed dipped out so I don’t have a problem paying it out of the Maintenance fund. (There is $13,000.00 in the fund.)” Chairman Schmierer said he is actually asking us for $962.50 so what is the favor of the Board. Board Member Heimlich said he is not clear on how this was arrived at. Surveyor Sterrett said, “I suppose Claude has a bill from Allen is how he set this up.” Claude said he was billed for all of it. Chairman Schmierer explained, “From what I understand here, he dipped 4,000 feet. 1,660 feet of it was Claude’s tributary. 2,340 foot of it was the Cartmell Ditch. We had paid $500.00 of it and they billed him for the whole thing outside of the $500.00 we had paid Allen Howe. That’s what he is asking, to come back and pay the difference between $1562.00 and the $500.00.” Claude Butt said it did a lot of good, it was worth it.


Board Member Heimlich made a motion to pay another $962.50 out of the Maintenance on the Cartmell Ditch on that project. Board Member Ferguson seconded the motion. The motion carried unanimously. The Board was in agreement we will have to have an invoice for $962.50 from Allen Howe.


Surveyor Sterrett reported that they had a Surveyor’s meeting in Cass County on the Indian Creek. He said, “The Surveyor over there wanted to know, I guess you’re (Schmierer) on Joint Board. Do you still want to be on it?” Chairman Schmierer said, “I’ll be gone the first of the year, better put somebody else on it.” Surveyor Sterrett said, “They had two possible meeting dates set up and I am supposed to call her back. November 16, 2004 at 9:00 A.M. and November 18, 2004 at 2:00 P.M.” Chairman Schmierer said he will be gone all that week the 15th through the 27th. Surveyor Sterrett said what they will probably do is have an organizational meeting and then close that and have a Board meeting to set the rates. Board Member Heimlich said he can go and tell them we will appoint a new member the first of the year. Board Member Heimlich said either day would be alright for him.


Surveyor Sterrett reported he got a call from Eric Oliver from IDEM on the Big Monon. He wanted to set up a meeting on watershed management after the reconstruction. Surveyor Sterrett told him that Pulaski County is in charge of the Big Monon. Board Member Heimlich reported they had a verbal on the permits being okayed but they haven’t heard anything since and it has probably been six weeks.


Board Member Ferguson made a motion to approve the minutes. Board Member Heimlich seconded the motion. The motion carried unanimously.


Chairman Schmierer adjourned the meeting.