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September 19, 2005 Tape #018

The White County Drainage Board convened at 10:40 A.M., EST, in the Commissioners’ Room of the White County Building, Monticello, Indiana with Board Members Steven Burton, O. D. Ferguson, John Heimlich, Attorney George W. Loy, Surveyor Dennis W. Sterrett, Drainage Engineer Todd Frauhiger and Secretary Romana Kiser present.

Also attending were Glenn Jennings, Don Pauken, Bill Pyle, Attorney Dow Dellinger, Jeff VanWeelden, Daniel L. Zinnen, Abby Lietz and Charles Mellon.

Chairman Burton asked for approval of September 6, 2005 meeting minutes. Board Member Ferguson so moved and Board Member Heimlich seconded the motion. The minutes were approved by unanimous vote.

Chairman Burton asked Surveyor Sterrett to present the next item on the agenda. Surveyor Sterrett stated, “We got a set of plans for reconstruction of Sixth Street south of (US Highway) 24, between 24 and Ohio Street.” Surveyor Sterrett asked Engineer Frauhiger to come and help present them. Engineer Frauhiger stated, “These were submitted by Hannum, Wagle and Cline the City’s consulting firm that actually designed Sixth Street project and the main reason we are involved is that they plan to take the drainage from that Sixth Street widening, all new curb and gutter into a thirty inch pipe and taking it over and making a new connection with Buss Ditch. Their calculations they submitted, I worked with Hannum, Wagle and Cline, we reviewed them, were fine. The only additional information that we requested from them, which she is going to get to me, is a detail of how they are going to repair the ditch once they make the connection into the bank. I am a little bit concerned that possibly we might want some rip-rap put above the pipe. We might want some bottom ditch treatment put in where the thirty inch actually comes in. And she is going to re-look at the velocities coming out of the thirty inch pipe into the ditch to make sure there is some type of energy dissipation in the bottom of the ditch so we don’t eat out the other side. Beyond those concerns, everything else looked great. There’s been a lot of back and forth between us and Hannum, Wagle and Cline. I don’t think there is really anything to approve at this particular point. I think that once they get their detail on what they are going to do to the ditch right at the thirty inch pipe; at that point we will probably have to approve the penetration into the ditch. So I guess today it is more informational. It is a widening of Sixth Street basically from 24 going south. I understand now they are talking about extending this further south also?”

Board Member Heimlich answered, “Yes, this is the City’s portion here and the rest of it will be done as part of the larger project. It will be Gordon Road and all the way around to the highway at the park.” Engineer Frauhiger stated, “I haven’t talked to Kevin yet. The one question will be if any of their project will drain back to the north, which maybe this pipe should be looked at to be sized adequately not only for this project but for any additional water they want to bring back from the south. I will check with Kevin on that. So that’s where we stand on that. I will check with Kevin and see if there is water coming from the south to the north and make sure that pipe is adequate to handle that also. I know Hannum & Wagle at this point has not considered that.” Surveyor Sterrett asked, “There is a structure on 24, too, that goes to the Buss Ditch isn’t there? Does it come clear down to Sixth?” Engineer Frauhiger stated, “I’m pretty sure that everything, the only connection over to Buss Ditch they have is this pipe here. I don’t think the ditch on 24; it breaks back to the east. This portion of the ditch, if I remember right, flows down in front of the car dealership. The only connection that I know of is this thirty inch over to the Buss Ditch. That’s the only one they have made me aware of or that they’ve got in the plans at this point. We will get some further details on how exactly that tie-in is going to be made.”

Chairman Burton asked, “At this point it is just a review?” Engineer Frauhiger answered yes.

Surveyor Sterrett stated that next on the agenda was drainage review of drainage plans for Rangeline Properties Transfer Station. The site is at CR 300 E and Division Road. Engineer Frauhiger stated, “The drainage plan we are looking at was a second submittal. The original report that came in was based the IDEM approval letter and some drainage calculations done with respect to getting the IDEM approval. After reviewing what was originally submitted and having some conversations with the consulting firm that actually ended up doing this drainage design, it was my suggestion to them that they get a copy of the County Drainage Ordinance, which they did. Then a more substantial report would have to be produced based upon the Drainage Ordinance, which is exactly what happened.

This is the proposed site grading plan and there are a couple of issues that are not addressed yet that will have to be addressed in the future involving potential encroachments along the existing tile. The route of the tile shown on the plan appears to be, and I expressed this to Dan (Zinnen of Weaver Boos Engineering), this appears to be off a little bit. Godlove located the tile. From Godlove’s location it appears the tile is actually laying a little bit closer to the corner where that trailer was, very close, it looks like almost going through the septic area. So, based upon that location, this tile is actually lying over in this area somewhere (pointed out on the plan drawing). It is definitely closer to the corner of this trailer. It was flagged; it was painted on the ground. When you lined up from this point and lined up with the paint, it’s right at the corner or maybe even under that trailer. So that takes it further away from the proposed construction, takes it closer to some of the existing buildings.

And, I’m not totally sure what to do about encroachments and setbacks because the existing buildings are already in violation of seventy-five foot easements. At some point that is going to have to be addressed to determine what if anything has to be done at that point. The tile all through the traffic area have approximately three to three and a half feet of cover. The soils report indicates that the truck traffic over that tile, it should be able to withstand it. They do have truck traffic right now moving in and out of that site, over in this area they cross the tile now, and as far as we know there have been no breakdowns on the tile.

The Ordinance requires for construction of a new tile to be under a minimum of two foot of cover, so they are actually about a foot deeper than what our requirements are. The Ordinance states that you can discharge from a site at the two year and ten year redeveloped flow rates, at the post developed ten and post developed hundred, unless there is a downstream restriction. In this case we have a downstream restriction which is the fact that the entire site is draining into an eight inch tile. So, the calculations that were submitted were a substantial change and the allowable discharge from the site was reduced drastically. At the ten year storm the site is going to be discharging from this detention pond over in the corner about a quarter of a CFS, .23 CFS into the eight inch tile. At the hundred year storm it is going to be discharging about four tenths of a CFS into that eight inch tile. The calculations on the eight inch tile, and I confirmed these, because of the head you get on the tile in certain places, CFS of that eight inch tile is about 1.2 , they came up with 1.3 something so the tile has the capacity of someplace in the 1.2 to 1.3 range in the hundred year storm. This site will be discharging roughly .4 into it.

Basically, we went over these calculations with a fine toothed comb and re-did a number of them. I mentioned to Dan (Zinnen) last week that it was probably one of the more thorough submittals that we have had post Ordinance. I do want to commend the consulting firm, Weaver Boos. They did an excellent job on the submittal. Their calculations checked, and the ones that I chose to re-run myself came out extremely close to their answers, always within five to ten percent.

The one issue I did bring up and I will discuss with Dan, at the connection of the tile there is an airwell. I think we are going to require a structure be put in at that connection point. So there will actually be a manhole structure put in. The excess from the pond will come into the structure and not come into the existing airwell. Denny actually caught it and that is an excellent idea, there should be a structure there.

There is some concern, if I understand it right from the submittal and from the IDEM approval, and from some of the questions and concerns we had, there are two sump pits – one of which will collect leachate and pump into a dirty water storage tank. (on the proposed) There is a second sump pit that’s just for storm water. This line (indicated on drawing) and this line are trench drains which will drain around the building into a sump pit. That storm water collection system is so it will pump back up and discharge over ground into, basically work its way over into that airwell. And that was accounted for in their calculations as part of their overall allowable discharge ( .23 and .4 )

I know there has been some concern about trash coming out of trucks or sitting on the ramps, going up and down, and coming into contact with storm water and being some contamination. I think the IDEM approval said something about, didn’t they have to assure that didn’t happen with potential coverage over the ramps or some type of maintenance system set up to keep the ramps clean. But, there are two systems. There is one which will pump into the dirty water storage tank and there is one that will discharge.” Dan Zinnen of Weaver-Boos Consulting Firm said, “You described it pretty accurate.”

Board Member Heimlich said, “You said this tile, according to location, is more to the northwest, correct? (Engineer Frauhiger answered yes.) That seems to put it right THROUGH this septic. (Engineer Fruahiger agreed.) Surveyor Sterrett said, “It looks like it was a little bit off the septic tank when we looked at it, to the northwest. All we could see was the manhole to the septic tank.” Engineer Frauhiger said it appears to go through that trailer. Board Member Heimlich asked where the rest of the septic system is. (Dan Zinnen shows on drawing.) Engineer Frauhiger stated that he wasn’t sure if they had done some work on septic system or they had been pumping the tank or the leach field, but at one point there was some excavation done in this area so he would assume that is where the finger system is.

Chairman Burton said this map is more of a topography. Engineer Frauhiger said that is correct. Chairman Burton asked if the current drive goes around this building. Engineer Frauhiger showed where the current drive went. He stated, “When we were out there at the site at least two or three times it appeared that trucks were unloading into what appeared to be a compactor sitting over in this area. I watched the trucks go in, dump their load, then go back out.” Chairman Burton asked if what is now sod area would not be used as drive area. Dan Zinnen answered that underdevelopment it would be a gravel drive. Engineer Frauhiger pointed out the house has been removed and the garage is still there.

Engineer Frauhiger stated, “The last time Denny and I were out there we measured out exactly where that detention pond was sitting because it looked like a number of trees close to it. It looks like most of the trees are going to be saved.” Owner Jeff VanWeelden stated those trees are coming out of there and sixteen firs will be transplanted.

Don Pauken asked to comment on the storm water sump pump, “This slopes to this drain. This is where the loading of the compacted material will be. You are going to have leachate going into that drain. And as far as a rain canopy, the permit says an OPTIONAL rain canopy. So, what does that mean, you can put it in if you want or you don’t have to do anything?” Engineer Frauhiger stated, “My suspicion is the last thing that he wants to do is pump leachate to the ground surface because that’s going to be an obvious problem. My guess is that everything would be done to make sure that no leachate ends up on the ground.” Don Pauken said that is what will happen.

Engineer Frauhiger asked if the ramp is now concrete. The answer was yes it is. Engineer Frauhiger said, “It is gravel going back to the concrete, whereas that picture you have there, had they not finished? Is that all dirt?” Don Pauken said, “It is dirt. What they do is, they dig it out and ream, but there’s no drains there, they ream the dirt. They skim it off every once in a while.” Engineer Frauhiger said, “Ok, well this will be a little different situation because there will be gravel going up to the concrete. This area here will be concrete, the same with this area here concrete.” Dan Zinnen said, “Basically, the building is rectangular and everything inside the building will either drain by gravity or be pumped to a storage tank in the lower level in the south side of the building. These two ramps will drain down and then we will have a strip drain at the bottom of the ramp. We are proposing to discharge to the drainage swale south of the building. The canopy IS optional, again, that was done more as a permitting issue so that they don’t have to change their permitting.”

Don Pauken said, “Well, canopy or not this still slopes to this drain and here is where your loading container will be, right here.” Dan Zinnen said, “Where the compactor goes into the container is actually inside the building.” Don Pauken said, “That’s correct, but you have to pull that away and load it.” Dan Zinnen said, “Right and you will have litter that will come out typically……..inaudible…… soon as they come out their compactor guy on site will sweep up anything that falls off the truck and put it in another container.” Don Pauken said, “Well, it’s the leachate that bothers everybody. Going into this drain which goes to the stormwater sump.”

Engineer Frauhiger stated, “I knew that was going to be a concern so that’s the only reason I brought that sump issue up. Partially it is a valid concern. I think everybody in this room has followed one of those trucks on the Interstate. There is a small amount of leachate that will probably come off.”

Chairman Burton said, “Let me back up one situation here. We have this map. This concern of ours with this particular item here (indicated on map).” Board Member Heimlich said, “It is a concern of mine. It is not really a part of the drainage situation, but I’d want to know where that, you can’t have a driveway over a finger system. And, if our tile is running on this side then it’s running right through the finger system – if that is indeed where it is.” Engineer Frauhiger said, “That was our concern when we were out there and noticed the digging, that maybe the finger system or the septic tank was connected to the tile. I didn't see any evidence of polluted water or smell anything in the tile at one of the air risers. It is a good point though, John, and I’m not qualified to comment on that.” Board Member Heimlich stated, “Well, I know when they put in a system they tell you not to take heavy equipment over it. Mine is out in the field and they told me not to farm over that with heavy equipment.” Don Pauken stated, “Dan Banes (County Health Officer) says that there is no set rule on that. They take their own chances as far as the septic going down from riding over the leach field or the tank.” Board Member Heimlich stated, “But the fact that our County tile is going, if that IS where the leach field is, there should be a different setup. You wouldn’t have your County tile running right, you’d have a perimeter drain around your leach field and then into the tile. If that is indeed where it is that tile would be running right through it.”

Engineer Frauhiger asked where they got the location of the tile that is on this plan. Dan Zinnen stated, “The manhole, we surveyed and the description came from the former owner.” Engineer Frauhiger asked how Godlove locate it. Surveyor Sterrett answered, “I think he sent a wire up it and used a metal detector.” Engineer Frauhiger said that should be pretty accurate.

Dan Zinnen said he was out there this morning and checked that and there was no holes or anything there, there’s no sewage going through that tile. Todd said, “I checked the same thing and I didn’t see anything when I was out there. There are side slopes on that pond which are maintainable. They are at least 3 to 1 if I remember correctly. The main building is gone so there is maintenance access around the pond. One thing that does have to be done, an easement has to be described around the pond and around the pipe on that property so it is a perpetual drainage easement and those facilities are protected once they are constructed.”

Dan Zinnen stated, “Mr. Van Weelden said if having a canopy would take away your concerns about having that storm water being discharged without drainage, he’s willing to construct that canopy.” Don Pauken said, “That doesn’t answer the question of that slope here, where the loading is taking place.” Dan Zinnen asked, “You’re saying you’re fearful there would be water?” Don Pauken said, “Leachate, any water collected in this area would be considered contaminated water instead of storm water.” Dan Zinnen said, “So if we committed to pumping that to the storage tank?” Engineer Frauhiger said cover it so no storm water gets on it, change that sump pump, send it to the storage tank. Don Pauken said, “Leachate to the storage. Divert it to the storm water sump, but you’d have to cover the whole ramp.” Dan Zinnen said, “Right, and that’s what was considered in the application.” Don Pauken said, “That would work.”

Chairman Burton asked, “And that pretty well meets your concerns?” Don Pauken answered, “Yes, as far as that particular item.

Board Member Heimlich asked, “So what are we estimating, how far is the tile from the corner of that structure?” See tape – discussion on location. Dan Zinnen answered, “About 17 or 18 feet. I marked on this drawing, to scale.” Surveyor Sterrett stated the existing location of the tile outweighs the legal description. See tape – discussion on location in respect to buildings and loading ramp.

Chairman Burton stated, “The storm water, leach water, that can be rectified there, now we’re back to, and the septic system a little iffy, but now we’re back to the encroachment on the new building with existing tile. Is that where we are at the monent?” Surveyor Sterrett said, “And can we work on the tile if something happens to it?” Board Member Heimlich said, “You talked about traffic flow here, and I guess this gets back to an Area Plan issue again, the traffic being shown on property that is not zoned as same as the site. I don’t know, is the holding pond on that property an issue or not?” Attorney Loy answered, “No, that’s just part of the drainage plan that Todd is reviewing. Off-ste drainage storage is not unusual. That’s not a problem so long as Todd doesn’t have a problem with it.” Todd answered, “As long as there’s an easement around that pond and that drainage system set up for perpetual easement.”

Dan Zinnen addressed concerns about getting to the pipe to perform maintenance. He said, “I don’t know what your conventions are locally, up around where I’m from we typically have a storm sewer we put it on a ten or fifteen foot wide easement, through all sorts of urban areas. You definitely have that wide of a strip to deal with. The fact that you are only down three feet or so, a small backhoe can get to that with no problem.”

Surveyor Sterrett stated, “The only problem I see is up near the existing building, the north building.” Engineer Frauhiger asked how long that has been that way. Surveyor Sterrett said, “Forever, probably. I don’t know when that quonset was built.” Board Member Heimlich said that quonset has been there a long time. (See tape, some questions and answers about concrete surface on site plan)

Attorney Dow Dellinger put Daniel L. Zinnen’s educational background and professional credentials and two exhibits concerning tile location on record. See tape.

Engineer Frauhiger stated, “There is a certification from Dan Zinnen with his stamp that it was his feeling that after the design, it met the White County Ordinance, after what was a very extensive thorough review, I would concur with that certification.”

Chairman Burton said, “So what’s before us at the moment is to approve this drainage plan?” Engineer Frauhiger said, “With modifications and I guess what my suggestion would be is, what one modification states is the perpetual easement around the pond and around the connection pipe. And that an encroachment request of less than seventy-five foot be submitted.” Attorney Loy stated, “The drainage plan itself would require a Consent to Encroach, in addition to the building structures you are going to be constructing some features for their drainage that is going to be within the seventy-five feet. (Engineer Frauhiger said that is correct.) There’s that plus the structures that will require Consent to Encroach. The drainage plan is to service this construction (impervious surface), so that would be a condition of the building permit and then you need a Consent to Encroach to accommodate the permanent structures and also, isn’t there some holding things within seventy-five feet. Well, if any structures of detention ponds or anything like that within the seventy-five feet.” Surveyor Sterrett said the holding tank is within a structure. Engineer Frauhiger said the pond is about eighty feet away. Chairman Burton and Engineer Frauhiger reviewed: “The easement was for permanent drainage easement for around the pond and for the drain tile. And the Encroachment for the building, and we addressed the water issue on the loading deck. They were willing to cover that with canopy and re-route the leachate from the storm water sump to the interior sump. That will not eliminate the storm water sump because you will still have that for the other ramp.” Don Pauken asked if there would be 3 sumps. Dan Zinnen asked, “Jeff, do you want to build two canopies or one?” Jeff VanWeelden answered, “Off the back ramp where leachate is the issue.” Dan Zinnen said, “Ok now we have 3 sumps, two going from the tank and the building and one keep discharging to the south swale.” Engineer Frauhiger, “Can you re-pipe from the trench here into the sump inside the building and not have to have another sump pump?” Dan said they could do that.

Chairman Burton stated, “So that’s what’s before us then, with these revisions is how this is being submitted to us, with these revisions added.” Engineer Frauhiger, “At this point no one has asked for specific encroachment, no one has asked for a specific reduction or exactly what footage they’re talking about.” Jeff VanWeelden said he thought they had applied for encroachment. Board Member Heimlich said, “You just asked about it, you just asked what was needed. You have to have a specific proposal.” Engineer Frauhiger said, “I would think it would be very easy to put the located position of the tile on the plan and come up with whatever you are going to ask for. Sixty feet on one side and fifteen on the other or whatever it is.” Attorney Loy stated, “And our right-of-way is seventy-feet from the centerline of the tile. What we do when the Board grants these consents, I draft the Consent to Encroach. There’s a very specific drawing on it showing where that is going to be and it is the owner’s responsibility to incur any additional cost if your structures that we gave you consent to build become or get in the way of tile maintenance.”

Board Member Heimlich said, “I guess I’d like to know more about the septic system. If you say that’s the tank and the finger system is out here, then the tile is going right through it. I guess I want to KNOW where it is, not just say we think it’s over here.” Surveyor Sterrett asked, “Do you know when that was installed?” Jeff VanWeelden said, “Before we bought the property.” It was determined we are assuming the septic system was with the quonset (see tape for that discussion). Attorney Dow Dellinger stated, “The proposed structure won’t affect…..we’re not planning on trying to move that tile.” Jeff VanWeelden said he believes there was a septic inspection done when the original application went in.

Chairman Burton explained, “John’s concerns would be there’s potential building there and we’re talking about the existing building with the question of septic system here and if that becomes entangled with our current tile and we have to relocate or do something we are narrowed down now to hardly any movement at all even if we grant the encroachment. So if that becomes an issue, then where do we go? I’m listening to what you are saying about it maybe not affecting this, but now that it has been brought to our attention of where it does exist, and if there is a leach bed or something there and we are forced to move, we grant something today and it becomes a big problem because we allowed that to proceed without knowing where we were at with that situation.

Board Member Heimlich said, “That pretty well explains it. This is so complicated because so many things were allowed to happen that never should’ve happened. We certainly don’t want to continue to make those mistakes.” Chairman Burton said, “I was trying to get things we talked about today down in an order so we can clarify these and make sure we are on the right page and not walk out of this room and be scratching our heads and not understanding what we are talking about. That’s why I’m trying to put them on a list and go through them. This question of the system and how it may impact is one thing we are not going to get answered today.” Board Member Heimlich asked if there is another septic system. He said, “I wouldn’t think this one was serving the house. This has to be, I would think fairly recent because when Joe Landis had the house I wouldn’t know why he would have a septic system to service the quonset because there wasn’t anything there. He just had storage for his tiling. So I would think there ought to be Health Department records on that because it shouldn’t have been that long ago I don’t think.” Attorney Dellinger said, “Tell us what you want us to get with that. We can get you a test, I don’t know if we can get you the plans from the Health Department.” Board Member Heimlich said, “If the Health Department has got them I’d like to know just exactly where that is in relation to that tile going through there. If it’s not a problem now, and I know Denny and Todd said they didn’t smell anything, but it could become a problem in the future if it’s not set up like most of them are now with a peripheral drain and then going into a tile. IF it’s where you say it is, it looks like our tile is going right through the middle of it.” Engineer Frauhiger said the whole septic system would be within the easement on the tile. Board Member Heimlich said, “Yes, I think a problem of granting easement is why would you grant an easement when you know the septic system is right there in the easement.” Don Pauken asked if that septic system is servicing anything right now. Board Member Heimlich said yes, the main building, the current facility.

Chairman Burton asked if there are any other concerns or questions to bring up. Attorney Dellinger asked Attorney Loy, “You just want a legal of the property?” Attorney Loy said, “I want a copy of his deed.” Dow asked, “You want a survey of what setback we want off of the tile, right?” Attorney Loy said, “Right. That will be my exhibit and it is going to be in recordable form so it will be picked up in his chain of title.” Dow Dellinger asked how many feet is needed. Dan Zinnen stated, “Are you looking for a standard width or can we vary? We need to define what the variance we are asking for is and I’m just not sure how to describe it. In this area would we describe the sections of the building that would be encroaching within the seventy-five feet? (Surveyor Sterrett said no) Or would we just go a minimum width, say at least eighteen feet either side of the tile?” Attorney Loy said, “Yes, the document would say ‘no closer than x number of feet, as shown on the attached Exhibit A.” Engineer Frauhiger said, “Just because you are asking for an encroachment to maybe eighteen feet on this side, you don’t have to reduce to eighteen feet on this (other) side so you can still show, you know, a seventy foot wide strip through there.” Chairman Burton asked, “You need a legal description of the pond also for the easement, right?” Attorney Loy said, “I’m not going to do the easement, that is going to be up to you guys to take care of.” Attorney Dellinger said, “I’m lost why we need the easement. They own both pieces of property.” Chairman Burton said, “Because those are two different pieces of property and they are not zoned the same. If he chose to do something else tomorrow or after this is done, then where does the drainage go? This has to be a permanent……” Dow said, “I’m following you, I understand why Jeff needs it, I thought there was something different the County wanted .” Chairman Burton said, “He has to have the legal paperwork showing us that it is there, because if it’s not…..” Board Member Heimlich said, “Then there is no drainage plan for this.”

Surveyor Sterrett asked, “How do we handle the Consent to Encroach? Are we using the septic tank as a part of this structure?” Attorney Loy stated, “Any of the existing structures that are with the proximity of the drain, if you want that addressed now is the time to do it.” Board Member Heimlich, “That’s what I was getting at, if we just grant a blanket Consent to Encroach there when we know that the tile is running through the septic tank, what if….” Attorney Loy said, “The Consent to Encroach is going to be on that building for now. Now if there is something else you want moved or added to…..” Board Member Heimlich said he thought that ought to be addressed (Board Member Ferguson said you mean the finger system) because the way it is shown, if we had to work on the tile we’d be digging through the septic system” Surveyor Sterrett said, “Or a building, which would mean replacing the finger system or distribution box or…”

Attorney Dellinger stated, “I’m sort of lost as to what you want us to do with the septic system.” Dan Zinnen said, “Could the variance be granted with the understanding that there are encroachments, but if you had to disturb them to repair the tile that reconstruction of those would be the responsibility of the property owner.” Dow Dellinger said he thought that was what we talked about. Surveyor Sterrett said, “That’s essentially what is in your Consent to Encroach isn’t it?” Attorney Loy said, “Right, on future structures. While we are at it, there is some existing structures, consisting of the quonset, the septic, and as a condition of our Consent to Encroach…..inaudible……it’s your problem.” Dow said, “Have Jeff waive all liability for damage with the septic.” Attorney Loy said you can do that and now is the time to do it. Dan Zinnen said, “I guess do a blanket for the whole lot.” Chairman Burton said, “Does that meet your concerns or should we just call this for two?”

Jeff VanWeelden stated, “I’ll take on the expenses, liability of if you hurt the finger system or anything. Or anything on that property that pertains to that drain tile.” Attorney Loy said he will take care of that. Dan Zinnen said, “We’ll just describe the area you are giving a variance for, is new construction south of the tile. Then anything that doesn’t fall within that….inaudible…..”

Attorney Loy summarized, “Typically, what I need, there is going to be attached Exhibit A that is a surveyed plot plan similar to what you have, showing dimensions and distances (‘here’s the drain, 7.5 feet from the corner of’ and that sort of thing) and identify all the existing structures and the future construction. We will specifically mention the future…..inaudible…..and we’re giving consent to construct that one structure. It is not a blanket consent to build a whole string of stuff. And, while we are at it, there is the septic system in the other building identified on this Exhibit A and if we have to go through those to reach our tile for repair on maintenance or anything it is your problem.”

Dan Zinnen asked, “Is the connection from the pond to the tile and the manhole we are going to add need to be included?” Attorney Loy said, “That is what I was referring to earlier, I thought there was something you want to add to it.” Engineer Frauhiger said, “Depending on how you measure it, from the tile you are beyond the seventy-five feet, I guess the shortest distance you are fifty feet. You might want to go ahead and draw that on there, draw the pond on there.” Attorney Loy said to make it real plain for future landowners.

Chairman Burton said, “With everything we have talked about today, we’ve talked about a lot of stuff. My personal preference as Chairman would be, I think we definitely need to come back next month with all this down to make sure we’re not assuming a whole lot of what we are going to do and what we’re actually voting on at this point and time.” Board Member Heimlich said, “Well, George was saying we can’t approve the drainage plan without the Consent to Encroach.” Attorney Loy asked, “And don’t you have some modifications to your drainage plan such as the canopy that needs to be on there?” Engineer Frauhiger said, “I don’t know if it needs to be on the drainage plan but there should be something in writing that says they are committing to the canopy and committing to that discharge coming to the……” Attorney Loy said, “But that’s on the drainage plan, it has nothing to do with the Consent to Encroach.” Engineer Frauhiger said it isn’t really on the drainage plan. Attorney Loy said, “Somehow it needs to be made a condition of, if you guys want it.” Engineer Frauhiger said, “You could make that agreement Attachment A to your drainage plan.” See tape for Chairman Burton’s explanation of it. Attorney Loy said to add it to the drainage plan. Dan Zinnen said we can add it.

Chairman Burton stated, “We will all meet again at this time two weeks from now, October 3, 2005.” Attorney Loy stated, “I can have a draft of the Consent to Encroach. It will have exhibits that you guys are preparing, but I can get a draft going. Just get me a copy of the deed.”

Surveyor Sterrett briefed the Board on Meadowbrook II Subdivision which was platted in 1995 before the Drainage Ordinance went into effect. He said, “That year, I gave you a copy of the letter, Area Plan requested an opinion from the Drainage Board about the plan that was presented for drainage. That was in 1995 and the plat wasn’t recorded until November 9, 1999, after our Ordinance took effect. Now the ground is being purchased by Glenn Jennings who is here and wants to discuss what his drainage plan needs to be because, on August 16, 2004 this was brought before the Drainage Board, was discussed and at that time it was decided that the subdivision would have to meet the Drainage Ordinance. In the meantime, there was a letter of credit issued to put the improvements in and that never happened. Area Plan tried to draw on the letter of credit and that didn’t work, so Area Plan was in the process of vacating the subdivision because the improvements were not put in.” Glenn Jennings came forward to explain to the Board what he is trying to do. Surveyor Sterrett displayed a copy of the subdivision that he got from Area Plan for the Board to look at. Board Member Ferguson asked if just one lot is sold. Glenn Jennings answered yes, Lot 28 is sold. He said what he is buying is approximately twenty-four acres. He said John Freeman owns Meadowbrook I and put a tile in that drains down in a ravine area, an 8 inch, 10 inch and 12 inch. Mr. Jennings said, “This tile across here has not been put in yet. I don’t have no problem ever putting that in. What my intentions is, I appreciate it as ag land and I have no intentions of developing it at this early stage. I would like to do it in phases. Since the sewage is in down on the perimeter on Sheridan Road and down around Chalmers Road I’d go ahead and work with those lots. And, maybe do this road through here (indicated on map) for Phase 2, or do this road here in Phase 2 and this one in Phase 3 as money comes in that I can approach it.” Discussion on what he farms and where houses are – see tape. Board Member Ferguson asked, “If you buy this do you have to leave it subdivided in lots or can you turn it back into farm land?” Glenn Jennings said it is zoned Ag.

Surveyor Sterrett said he is asking if he has to put in detention. Engineer Frauhiger has never seen the plans. Glenn Jennings said as long as he has farmed that there has been no drainage problem. It is well-drained, underlined with rock. He said there is a ravine and a tree area and he is not planning to tear that up at all. He stated the lots are a shade over an acre.

Board Member Heimlich said Attorney Loy already answered that it falls under the Drainage Ordinance. Attorney Loy stated, “I stand by what I said August 16, 2004. He does need a drainage plan.” See tape for discussion on direction of drainage and exact location of property. Board Member Heimlich stated, “He IS going to develop it.” Glenn said, “I’m not saying I am going to develop all of it.” Chairman Burton stated, “Whether you develop part of it or all of it, you will need a drainage plan.

Attorney Loy stated, “Todd can fill you in on what is basically involved in a drainage plan.” Engineer Frauhiger said, “You asked if detention would be required, there are a number of firms around that can do a drainage plan. There’s a chance that they can show peak analysis or another analysis that the lake is so close that instead of detaining it, it could go straight into the lake. The calculations are not that difficult to do. I think they (Surveyor’s office) have a list of people that can help you.” Surveyor Sterrett stated, “So, your advice for him is to get in contact with an Engineer or land surveyor.” Chairman Burton stated, “My advice is to clarify that he needs a drainage plan and that kind of answers the other questions.” Meeting adjourned.