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February 6, 2006 Tape #003

The White County Drainage Board convened at 10:30 A.M., EST in the Commissioners’ Room of the White County Building, Monticello, Indiana with Board Members Steven Burton, O. D. Ferguson and John C. Heimlich, Attorney George W. Loy, Surveyor Dennis W. Sterrett, Engineer Todd Frauhiger and Secretary Romana Kiser in attendance.

Others attending were Brad Stockment, Dave Jordan, Richard Roach and Charles Mellon.

Chairman Burton called the meeting to order asking for the approval of the minutes for the January 16, 2006 meeting. Board Member Heimlich so moved. Board Member Ferguson seconded the motion. The minutes were approved unanimously.

Surveyor Sterrett stated that Brad Stockment was next on the agenda to discuss tiling in the Kleyla Ditch at the Excel Co-op site south of Reynolds. Surveyor Sterrett said, “Brad has been talking about this for quite some time. He has an engineered plan here. (Surveyor Sterrett displayed the plan.) This is the three tile that come in on the east side of Meridian Road at a box. Then there is a twenty-four inch drain, then there is an open ditch that goes under…….this is what he plans to do preliminarily, put in a thirty inch sewer and there’s an emergency grouted swale. Todd and I have looked at the site. I got these plans Friday so Todd hasn’t really looked at it yet.”

Engineer Frauhiger stated, “We met with Brad out on the site last week we were talking about this sewer having to come a little bit further north. It looks like Paul (Engineer Couts) plans to leave this ditch open in this area down here and in this area here and close this portion of it. What Brad and I aren’t sure of is if this plan gets everything far enough north to……..inaudible.” Board Member Heimlich said, “I had talked to Brad last week about, he was asking how close he could build to that tile. Assuming he would ask for a Consent to Encroach. I said I thought that would be up to an engineer. With that much weight that close to it, if you dug that big of a tile up, you wouldn’t want it right next to it. I don’t know how far would be safe.” Brad said, “They don’t have the soil borings back yet, from what they estimate now, they think their footings will be at least seven foot below grade, with what they know before they get the borings data back.” Board Member Heimlich said, “Below the surface. The tile is what, five or six?” Inaudible discussion – see tape – Engineer Frauhiger thought about five foot.

Attorney Loy asked, “So the purpose of all this is so you can build.” Brad answered, “Yes, grain bins north of the elevator that is there now and then be able to bring truck traffic across it also, whereas it is an open ditch now.” Chairman Burton asked, “So originally they just wanted to encroach over the top of it?” Brad answered, “We always knew we would have to relocate it.” Engineer Frauhiger pointed out an option Brad had told him about building smaller diameter but taller bins. Plans studied for proposed bin site – distance from bins to ditch. Also discussion on overflow swale being lower than the pipe. Brad asked if this is a thirty inch tile where is the water from the swale going to go? Todd said he thinks Paul’s concern is that the thirty inch pipe won’t be big enough so he wanted an emergency swale in case the water got blocked – see tape. Chairman Burton thought the swale would dump into an open collection site. See tape – discussion on where the Kleyla Ditch ends (at the box). Board Member Heimlich thinks all tiles dumping into the box are private.

Surveyor Sterrett thinks there are 60 to possibly 80 acres that drain into that. Board Member Heimlich stated, “There’s not a lot flowing into that. I suppose if that ever developed over there ( east side of Meridian Rd.) you might need more.” Attorney Loy said that would require a Reconstruction Hearing, at his (Excel Co-op) cost. Brad Stockment stated the nearest house is three hundred or so feet north of where they would cross the field. Chairman Burton asked if we have everything we need to move to step two. Engineer Frauhiger said yes, he thinks Engineer Paul Couts is getting him some more information. He said he hasn’t looked at the calculations yet.

Surveyor Sterrett said, “We will have to have a hearing. I assume we can use the 1973 Kleyla Drain Reconstruction watershed because maintenance is paid by the Fraser Drain so the only watershed we would have is with the Fraser Drain. But we can separate it out by using the 1973 Reconstruction report.”

Board Member Heimlich said, “I think we will want an opinion at some point as to how close we can grant encroachment to the bins.” Engineer Frauhiger said the main thing is to get the soil borings. Inaudible conversations due to background conversations.

Surveyor Sterrett said he thinks IDEM will have to be contacted about filling in the ditch. Attorney Loy said there is a length requirement and / or acres it drains. Engineer Frauhiger said he does not think since there is only 80 acres upstream that IDEM will need to be contacted, but he will check.

Board Member Heimlich asked about the timeline for the Hearing. Secretary Kiser said that landowners have to be notified not less than 30 and not more than 40 days prior to the date of the Hearing. Board Member Heimlich said that just the people on the Kleyla Ditch have to be notified, not the whole Fraser Ditch watershed. He said anybody downstream wouldn’t care. Surveyor Sterrett said there would be two or three landowners. Brad Stockment named Carol and Eric Hendress, Herb and Bill Dahlenburg, maybe Arnie Dahlenburg and maybe Chip Shields.

Surveyor Sterrett asked Brad Stockment if they were going to have Engineer Paul Couts send out the notices. Surveyor Sterrett said, “He did Ray Bixler’s. We sent him the information on assessments and he sent out the notices on the Ray Bixler project. We have to put together a list of names. We can get information to him.” Chairman Burton said to get back to us and let us know these landowners have been notified so we can set the date. Board Member Heimlich said we need to set the date first.

Secretary Kiser said, “I would say it will take a couple of weeks in the office to get the assessment roll and everything ready to give Paul and then Paul knows what he is doing and he has to have thirty to forty days so by next meeting we would probably have all the information to him. So probably we could have the Hearing the first meeting in April which is April 3, 2006. If the paperwork goes out of our office by the end of this week it might be possible to have the Hearing March 20, 2006.”

Brad Stockment asked if they would have an answer as to whether this plan is approved by the April 3, 2006 meeting. Surveyor Sterrett said we would have a Hearing and all of those people who got notified could come and voice their opinion. Board Member Heimlich said we can’t approve it or grant Consent to Encroach until after that.

It was determined that the first bin to be built is far enough from the existing open ditch to build without a Consent to Encroach. Board Member Heimlich said they would need a building permit and a height variance from BZA. Chairman Burton thought we might have to so this in Phase One and Phase Two. He said if you went ahead and built right how, the ditch exists. Engineer Frauhiger said he has enough footage so that is not an issue. See tape - Inaudible conversations.

Attorney Loy stated he would need a copy of the deed to prepare the Consent to Encroach document. Board Member Heimlich stated, “With this bin they are going to need a Consent to Encroach and we can’t grant it until we grant the reconstruction.” See tape – inaudible conversations. Chairman Burton summarized that the Reconstruction Hearing should be on March 20, 2006 or April 3, 2006. He told Brad Stockment to stay in touch with the Surveyor’s office and Engineer Paul Couts.

Surveyor Sterrett stated, “Next on the agenda Todd is going to review the drainage plan for Dave Jordan (Jordan Manufacturing new construction). Engineer Frauhiger said, “I just heard something about a bigger tile….…..” Dave Jordan stated, “When Paul (Engineer Couts) did this, he just did what I needed, and Rick Roach and I talked back and forth and we want to run a bigger tile up there which is going to serve some more of it.” Engineer Frauhiger said, “Alright, what we will do is, this first section of pipe we will leave at twelve and then some place downstream where your connection comes in, from that structure on to Buss Ditch you just run a bigger tile. So you just leave that first section twelve, which is what you need for your outlet, to control it, and run bigger from there on out. I guess where we are, Paul had submitted drainage calculations originally. There were some changes that have been made. A new detention pond, which is a little bit bigger. We had concerns about an outlet down at the Buss Ditch and Dave has agreed now to actually install his own outlet. Twelve inches is what we need for the pond to work correctly but it is my understanding now that you would like to run a bigger one downstream of the pond. We don't have a problem with that. What we will do, what we were just talking, we’ll leave the first section of pipe twelve inches so the pond can function properly and then at this structure right here on to the Buss Ditch they will make it bigger. The drainage calculations were reviewed and the only thing that Paul owes me yet, he didn’t get it to me but it doesn’t affect the approval, there are a couple of storm sewers here that we don’t have the size on those yet. They drain the parking lots into the pond. It doesn’t affect the approval.” Surveyor Sterrett asked Dave Jordan, “I guess you are going to get easements?” Dave Jordan said, “From Kraybill and I talked to Rick (Roach) and he doesn’t have a problem with it.” See tape for conversation on width of easements in connection with the depth of tile.

Rick Roach said at one point this would cross the County tile on the Boston property through the thicket. He said he is pretty sure the County tile ends at the property line. He said the tile is just barely under ground. Dave Jordan said the tile behind Poncie’s is not good. He asked Poncie if they wanted to hook in to the new tile and he said no. Dave Jordan said they would like to start tomorrow while it is frozen. Engineer Frauhiger said he is ready to recommend approval.

Board Member Heimlich made the motion to approve the drainage plans for Dave Jordan for Jordan Manufacturing new construction (on South Sixth Street just south of Gordon Road and County Road 150 South), in Union Township. Board Member Ferguson seconded the motion. The motion carried unanimously.

See tape for side discussions on pipe sizing. Dave Jordan asked if he would need a drainage plan for some rebuilding some sections of the old building and some has been torn down and removed at the old site on Hanawalt Street. He said they are going from 280,000 feet down to 8,000 feet. He said they would actually pull up some concrete and put a lot back into grass. Attorney Loy said any time you are replacing something it is the same as if you are starting all over again. He said it would depend upon how much of the whole area, including parking lot is impervious surface or if they had a drainage problem before. Engineer Frauhiger said all they have to do is submit a letter requesting a waiver to the Drainage Ordinance stating that it was impervious, a parking lot or whatever, before. Engineer Frauhiger said there is no County Drain over there. The closest one would be the James Carter Ditch. Several inaudible conversations on the side at this point – see tape. Attorney Loy said it was up to Todd whether or not he would need a drainage plan. Engineer Frauhiger said he thinks they would need a request for an exemption along with explanation of what they plan to do. Mr. Jordan was told that he needs a $35.00 Drainage Permit from the Surveyor’s Office for the Jordan Manufacturing construction site.

Surveyor Sterrett reported, “We had a Maintenance Hearing on the Charles Bossung Drain west of Reynolds on June 16, 2003. We broke out the Bossung from the Esther Fraser Drain. The Fraser Drain was paying maintenance on the Bossung Drain. We set it for $10.00 an acre with a cap of four years so we could pay for the project. My estimate was for $20,443.00 for the project and the quote on it was only $9,915.00 so we collected plenty of money. We quit collecting on it this year. We quoted it two ways, one for brushing and one for dipping. We did the brushing out of Fraser maintenance. There was $3,165.00 for brushing and there was $1,264.00 for tile repair so that left $6,750.00 for dipping. That’s been paid for and now there is over $3,000.00 left in the account. My question is do we put the $3,000.00 back in the Fraser (maintenance fund)?” Board Member Heimlich said, “Is there a reason that can’t stay in there?” Secretary Kiser said it is not on maintenance by itself. Board Member Heimlich said, “What happens if there is a section in there like we have had on the Fraser Ditch a couple of times where there’s a section that you want to dip? Will that be taken out of the Fraser or do you have to come back and….. if we could just leave it in there because that’s what it is collected for. If a problem develops where a section of it has to be dipped you have money for it.” Surveyor Sterrett said, “Or anything. That’s fine with me; we just won’t collect on it.” Board Member Heimlich asked if it was going to be sprayed off of the Fraser maintenance or is it not going to be sprayed unless you use this money? Secretary Kiser said we usually spray them right after they are done (cleared).

Surveyor Sterrett asked, “We’re not going to collect on it anymore, right?” Attorney Loy stated, “What you collected was for the project which turned out to be a lot less than what you estimated. I don’t think there is anything wrong with just leaving the money set there.” Surveyor Sterrett said, “To answer John’s question, are we going to spray it?” Attorney Loy said, “I am wondering if we should set it up on maintenance with no assessments.” Surveyor Sterrett said, “We have it set up on maintenance. We had a Hearing on it, but it was only going to be for four years and then it was going to go back to the Fraser. Maintenance on it was being paid by the Fraser. We took it out on its own for the project and then it would go back to Fraser maintenance.”

Attorney Loy stated, “There is nothing wrong in my opinion to have that money remain in that account for future maintenance.” Surveyor Sterrett said, “I would ask the Board, do you want to use that money to spray it?” Board Member Heimlich said it would make sense to him since that money was collected from the landowners on that ditch. The Board agreed to that.

The Board was asked to accept and sign the list of maintenance assessments to be presented to the Auditor for collection in 2006. Secretary Kiser explained this is not a list of all of our regulated drains that are on maintenance. This is the list that we are asking the Auditor to collect on for 2006. Board Member Ferguson made a motion to accept the assessments for 2006. Board Member Heimlich seconded the motion. The motion carried unanimously. The Board signed the list of assessments. Surveyor Sterrett stated that all but twelve ditches are out of debt.

Surveyor Sterrett stated, “We are going to have a Hearing on Monty Moss’s tile on February 21, 2006 and I got this public notice from IDEM concerning Monty Moss’s project ( notice of receipt of an application for Section 401 Water Quality Certification to inform the public of active applications submitted for water quality certification under Section 401 of the Clean Water Act 33 U.S.C. 1341 and to solicit comments and information on any impacts to water quality related to the proposed project). The publication date was January 20. Closing date is February 10. So can we go ahead and rule on the project ( Moss Farms Hog Operation )without IDEM’s approval or make it subject to IDEM’s approval for filling the ditch in?” This is the Ackerman Br. #9. Board Member Heimlich said we could make it contingent on IDEM’s approval, and if they don’t grant that, then we just make our approval contingent on IDEM’s. The Board and Attorney Loy agreed.

Charlie Mellon asked Board Member Heimlich how the Big Monon project is coming along. Board Member Heimlich said, “We awarded bids on all the brushing and I assume they have started on it.” Charlie said, “Did you get ALL of it bid? Because they were having trouble with our end down here.” Board Member Heimlich said, “Yes, they got it all let.” Charlie said they have been cutting up by Francesville. Board Member Heimlich said he talked to Pulaski County Surveyor Joyce Weaver a week ago Friday and she said that week DNR had been out and marked the trees that had to stay because that had to be done before they could start. She said that DNR did not really mark that many, he was very easy to get along with.

Chairman Burton addressed the situation south of Brookston behind the row of houses along highway 43 concerning the Henry Stewart Drain. Chairman Burton asked, “Would you be inclined to pursue putting that short stretch (of open ditch) on maintenance or would you rather wait this out?” For short discussion see tape. Secretary Kiser said Mrs. Jewell is the landowner that won’t agree to the cleanout. Surveyor Sterrett said a legal description of that part to be extended would be needed. Attorney Loy said it would be reconstruction. Chairman Burton suggested mentioning this would be the next step unless they agreed to a friendly cleanout. Surveyor Sterrett said he will give them a call. Chairman Burton stated he would be glad to go out there with him.

Chairman Burton adjourned the meeting.