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June 5, 2006 Tape #011

The White County Drainage Board convened at 10:30 A.M., EDT in the Commissioners’ Room of the White County Building, Monticello, Indiana with Board Members Steven Burton, O. D. “Bud” Ferguson and John C. Heimlich, Attorney George W. Loy, Surveyor Dennis W. Sterrett, Engineer L. Todd Frauhiger and First Drainage Assistant Mary E. Sterrett in attendance.

Others attending the meeting were Cynthia Isom, David A. Stoll, Sherry A. Stoll, Roger Wampler, Robert W. Gross and Charles Mellon.

Chairman Burton called the meeting to order asking for approval of the minutes for the May 15, 2006 meeting. Board Member Heimlich so moved. Board Member Ferguson seconded. Minutes were approved. Chairman Burton called on Surveyor Sterrett for the first item on the agenda.

Surveyor Sterrett stated, “The first item on the agenda is Billy Isom asking to reduce the easement on a County tile out north of town. His surveyor, Bob Gross, is here. I haven’t seen a copy of it yet (what they propose to do).” Board Member Ferguson asked if this is up there where they are moving the house. Surveyor Sterrett said that is right. Surveyor Sterrett said, “This is the F. M. Harrison Tile Branch of the H. A. B. Moorhaus Drain.” (Drawing studied) Surveyor Gross stated, “The legal drain description comes through here and the actual tile comes through here. I assume that is where the actual tile is, where it should be, if the description is correct. What we are asking for is, everything within their property which is 3.299 acres and to the north of it to be reduced from the seventy-five feet on each side from the centerline of the tile down to twenty-five feet on each side from the center of the tile. So that they have enough room to put in a house and septic on the 3.299 acres.” Attorney Loy asked if there are two separate tracts. Surveyor Gross said they are going to be two separate tracts but now they are all under that one. Attorney Loy asked what the plans are for the rest of it. Surveyor Gross answered, “Nothing right now.” (Drawing studied and discussion about Roth house being moved. – See tape)

Chairman Burton asked if it is normal procedure to grant specific easement. Attorney Loy answered, “Typically there has always been a reason for asking, this tract here is to build a house and septic. The house will go on the 3.3.” Board Member Heimlich asked, “How close is the house to the tile or do we know?” Surveyor Gross answered, “At this point we don’t really know. Between the setback and the State Road, they will want it as far back as they can get it.” Chairman Burton asked if it would be better if they specifically locate and we approve that. Attorney Loy said, “What we do is, we draw up what is called a Consent to Encroach and you are already aware of the seventy-five foot right-of-way on each side and the Board can give Consent to Encroach closer than that, but specifically. Not a blanket for anything and everything, everywhere. It is to locate a specific structure, such as a house or septic. I assume you could draw that generally on your survey, where you are going to put it. That is what the Board normally requires. And, as far as the rest of it is concerned, sort of a case by case situation, where if you need something let us know and the Board and surveyor will take a look at it. There are apparently no plans for other structures on the rest of it?” Cindy Isom said, “No, not that close.” Board Member Heimlich asked how big the tile is. Surveyor Sterrett said it shows a ten inch on the aerial and it changes into a twelve inch on the east side of the road.

Attorney Loy said, “So this would be just as to the 3.3 acres, for a house and septic. No problem with the septic, right? And we detach a copy of your survey as an exhibit to the Consent, to be recorded. We will need you, not to the inch, but to show on there where the house and septic would be located on that.” Surveyor Sterrett said, “Then that house would be allowed to encroach on the seventy-five foot right-of-way.” Attorney Loy said yes, if they (Board) are willing. Cindy Isom said you don’t just change the setback, you just allow us to build within twenty-five feet. Inaudible. See tape. Attorney Loy explained the Board allowing them to encroach.

Board Member Heimlich stated, “It is not a matter of giving up the easement, it is granting a Consent to Encroach.” Attorney Loy said, “There are all kinds of situations that might come up in the future that you can’t anticipate, but as part of the consent, if for some reason it increases the cost, if there is tile breakdown and if the proximity of the septic or the house causes some increased cost, you are assessed that additional cost because of your house being closer than seventy-five.” Chairman Burton asked if they understood where we are now. Surveyor Gross said, “Yes, we were hoping you would reduce the easement down from seventy-five to twenty-five because it is field tile and that would be ample room to maintain it.” Attorney Loy said, “You have to have a specific reason why. As to the other tract….” Surveyor Gross inaudible. Surveyor Sterrett asked, “Is it your intent to cut this other tract out and have a new tract ID number? If so, that would be the legal description George would need to write up in the Consent to Encroach.” Attorney Loy said, “Right, this is the deed for the whole thing.”

Chairman Burton stated, “The only thing additional that we don’t have today would be a placement of what would be encroaching on the County tile and then it could be guesstimated whether it would be thirty-five feet or twenty-five.” Surveyor Gross said, “I guess then I would like to ask them if twenty-five feet is ok.” Board Member Heimlich said, “If the twenty-five feet is just on the east side of the tile, that’s where the house and septic would go, right? We would still have the seventy-five feet on the west side. (Attorney Loy said you wouldn’t reduce that.) So, I don’t see any problem on a ten inch tile. There shouldn’t be any problem with that.” Attorney Loy said, “Twenty-five feet just on the east side.” Board Member Heimlich said that is where they are encroaching. Chairman Burton asked, “And you can put the house and the septic on the east side?” Surveyor Sterrett said, “There will probably have to be fill put in there.” Attorney Loy said, ‘So you are granting Consent to Encroach on the east side, within twenty-five feet. We aren’t talking about the west side at all.” Board Member Heimlich said, “No, I don’t think so. You aren’t talking about building anything over there.” Surveyor Gross said, “Not at this time.” Attorney Loy stated, “I will need a copy of that deed plus the one that….inaudible...You will need to locate, on the proposed map, the house and septic.”

Board Member stated, “I would make that motion that we grant Consent to Encroach to Bill Isom on the F. M. Harrison Tile Branch of the H. A. B. Moorhaus Drain , Consent to Encroach up to twenty-five feet on the east side of that tile for a house and septic.” Board Member Ferguson seconded the motion. The motion carried unanimously.

Surveyor Sterrett recognized Mr. Roger Wampler, owner of buildings in the County’s right-of-way on the F. M. Coonrod Ditch. Surveyor Sterrett said, “Mr. Wampler, maybe those buildings were there when you bought the property. (Roger Wampler answered, “Yes, sir.) They are infringing on the seventy-five foot right-of-way.” Mr. Wampler said, “That’s what I understand.” Board Member Ferguson stated that is at the east edge of Buffalo. Mr. Wampler stated, “I guess, from what I gather. I bought that off of the Stearns after their father passed away. My understanding is that one of my renters has built a dam or something in that ditch and that’s what got everything stirred up. I went up there yesterday and tried to contact the renter and had no luck doing that. I did go down in the ditch, maybe thought I saw where he might have stacked some rocks up so it might just hold some fish back but I didn’t see any kind of damage to the ditch whatsoever. And, I won’t let that happen again. But as far as the buildings and stuff, I don’t know anything about them, the setbacks and stuff.”

Chairman Burton explained, “I think where we are now is the buildings are there and this is kind of a formal notification that they are on the easement, that any future buildings would definitely be a violation, an encroachment issue. That more than anything is our fear, that something might be built in the future in that area."” Attorney Loy added, “Yes, and the fella that owns the property on the other side of the ditch (Marvin Good) has been here a couple of times and the problem when there is a structure that close is, if the ditch needs to be cleaned out, cleared or whatever, the equipment has to go on the other side and that side is inaccessible.” Mr. Wampler stated there is good accessibility to the other side. Attorney Loy said, “But he’s upset that tractors and equipment is going to come on his side because somebody has built stuff on the other side.” Mr. Wampler said, “Irregardless, seventy-five feet on both sides of the ditch, if you guys needed to get in there, obviously he knows that there might be a chance that you would have to knock out a few trees to get to his place. I understand that. My question is, what’s there is there, but in the future, that lot is five-eights of an acre and I’m assuming that is from the center of the ditch, so if you went seventy-five feet…………………. (Attorney Loy stated that the seventy-five feet is from the top of the spoil bank.)……right, but I’m saying on my legal it is probably going from the center of the ditch. So, I mean, if that ditch needs cleaned I think that I pay half and that guy pays the other half. So I don’t know how they do that on the legal description, do you?”

Chairman Burton said, “When you get to that point, you would be going through the process that Mrs. Isom did here. You would come before us and say this is what I am planning on doing. Would you grant me an encroachment on that easement? A lot of this notification now is, none of us are asking you to move those buildings currently, but that might be a problem in the future. And, if you chose to do anything else that would fall in that seventy-five feet, the process would be coming before us and saying this is what I would like to do and will you allow us to encroach on that seventy-five feet.”

Mr. Wampler said, “That is exactly what I was planning to do. That trailer has been there for a long time, it is getting older, and I had planned on putting either a stick built house or a modular on that property right there. So it sounds like if I left twenty-five feet it would be ok later on.” Board Member Heimlich said, “A ditch would need a little more room than a tile if you are going to clean it. Sometimes they will clean it on one side and sometimes on the other so you’re not putting all the spoil on one side all the time. You’ll need a little more than twenty-five feet.” Chairman Burton said, “When that time comes, come back and we’ll talk.” Attorney Loy stated, “Denny needs to get a copy of the deed to your property when you bought it and your address and phone. We are going to send you something to confirm what we are talking about here today.” See tape for discussion of size of tracts and ownership, address and phone. Mr. Wampler said he pays taxes on .6 and .9 acres. Surveyor Sterrett said GIS shows .94 and .66 acre tracts. Attorney Loy said, “You will be receiving something from the Board confirming what we just talked about. There will be something in the file, of course there are these minutes today, but there will be something in the file in written form showing that you are on notice of this and if there is any increase in cost, just like we told Mrs. Isom, if there is any increase of cost in the future of repair or maintenance of that ditch because those structures are closer than they should be, it is going to be on your dime.” Mr. Wampler said he did not have a problem with that.

Engineer Frauhiger presented a review of drainage plans for Sand Ridge Hog Buildings Facility, (Irvin Furrer) I & S Furrer Farms, Inc., owners. Surveyor Sterrett stated, that Todd (Engineer Frauhiger) is here and he has reviewed Surveyor Milligan’s plan. Engineer Frauhiger asked, “Steve, I think you went out and looked at this. Is that correct? (Yes) Good, because I want to explain how it is proposed to work. It is a site of approximately 600 by 1,100 feet, three proposed production buildings with not a detention pond but a retention pond in the corner. The retention, I talked with him this morning and it doesn’t have an outlet. There is an existing legal County drain tile, the E. Scipio. There is no direct connection between the retention pond and the tile. The property is field tiled, Jim (Surveyor Milligan) told me this morning, every sixty feet. The way that they have this designed right now is such that a rain storm will occur, water will run from the production buildings down to the corner of the property where they have a retention pond that is approximately four feet deep at the corner and it fills up with water. The soil content in that area is a type AB soil which is basically sand. What they are counting on is that the existing field tile system which will pass close to this retention pond, the water will soak into the sand and get into the field tile system and eventually work its way to the legal County tile. That is their plan. He told me this morning, their fallback plan, if this pond fills up with water and the sand will not allow the water to drain away, they would like permission to put a four inch connection from the corner of this pond to one of the field tiles, which will eventually make its way to the legal County tile. I didn’t have a problem with that. Denny was out there last week taking pictures of the site and they have already started construction to a certain extent out there. They have some foundations put in. This is the bottom of the south building.” Board Member Heimlich asked where the site is. Surveyor Sterrett said it is north of West Point Cemetery on CR 600 W. Engineer Frauhiger stated, “When Denny was out, there was quite a bit of water. They had put some underdrain around the building and out of this sand hill there was quite a bit of water draining out of the underdrain they have installed down to basically this area (indicated in photo) where there is some water standing. I’m not sure what number of days you were out after Denny was, but I think when you were out you noted that it was fairly dry.” Chairman Burton stated, “It wasn’t dry, the water wasn’t moving fast, it was just trickling at that point. And, it was extremely, I assume you had trouble walking around there.” Surveyor Sterrett said yes, it was pretty wet.

Engineer Frauhiger stated, “So, the way they have it designed, the way the calculations have been submitted, the way I reviewed them, this is a retention pond and there is no outlet. So, the thing is going to flood and the water will go away, working its way through the sand. If that doesn’t work, they would like permission to tie a four inch drop from the corner of this retention pond down into one of the existing field tile which will eventually make its way into more of a direct connection. The good thing is, with the six inch field tile and the four inch drop that won’t release anywhere near the amount of water they are allowed to release by the calculations. It is still going to far exceed the Drainage Ordinance.” Board Member Heimlich asked if they (Furrer) own the ground around it. Engineer Frauhiger answered yes. See tape for discussion on ground to the west.

Engineer Frauhiger stated, “My recommendation is that we go ahead and approve the drainage plan with the stipulation that if the pond doesn’t drain, we give them permission to insert a four inch drop into existing field tile.” Surveyor Sterrett said he notice when he was walking through that they have cut one of the field tiles, so there are tiles in there.

Board Member Heimlich so moved to approve the drainage plan for Sand Ridge Hog Buildings Facility, owner I & S Furrer Farms, Inc., as recommended by Engineer Frauhiger. Board Member Ferguson seconded the motion. The motion carried unanimously.

Surveyor Sterrett stated that next on the agenda Engineer Frauhiger will review the drainage plans for the Walgreens site at US 24 and Sixth Street in Monticello. Engineer Frauhiger reported, “C & S Engineering, Paul Couts, did this and I spoke to him a number of times last week. The site is basically broken into two different watersheds. Both of which need storm water detention. The two watersheds will be released into an existing storm drain along Broadway, Highway 24. Paul told me that storm drain eventually makes its way into the Buss Ditch. He has spoken to the City about utilizing that storm drain as an outlet and told me that he has permission from the State to do it. I have not verified that, but I am assuming he has contacted them. What he is doing for this portion of the watershed. He is putting oversize pipe in under ground. It is actually going to be pretty expensive fix, but he has no way to store water above ground. So, he is putting pipe, up to thirty-six inch under ground and then connecting this new storm system to an existing fifteen inch through a ten inch orifice pipe. So basically what is going to happen is, in a hundred year storm the calculations do show that there is enough room in this oversized pipe to allow the water to get away through a ten inch orifice plate and fill the pipe up under ground . There will be a little bit of water at each inlet, but it won’t come out of the inlet. If you walk over and look down and see water at the bottom of the inlet it won’t come out at the hundred year storm. At the more frequent storms, like the ten year storm, there is more than enough capacity in the pipes to store it. So he doesn’t have any problem there and he is meeting the detention requirement.

The part that is going to be a little more visible is the shed over in this area. And basically, the existing auto sales place will all be captured and put into a detention pond area utilizing two things. None of the parking lot over here is dry. He has put a three inch curb cut there and he is going to allow flooding to occur in two places. This portion of the asphalt and that will release into a three inch curb cut out into a depressed area in the grass. He has put a concrete curb and gutter right down through the middle of that depressed area. And then he is discharging from that depressed area through a four inch orifice by a four and a half inch orifice plate into an existing sewer that goes through the same fifteen inch sewer that these two empty into down here. It will all work. The calculations are good. I went over them numerous times with Paul (Couts). What I want to state is, as it is working as it is designed, after a rain storm we will see water standing both on the parking lot, there won’t be stripes but you will see water standing on the parking lot, and you’ll see water standing along Sixth Street. And then all that water will be slowly lead away by that four and a half inch orifice pipe and down into the fifteen inch storm sewer. This portion of the storage is going to happen under ground and no one will see it. This portion of the storm storage is going to happen above ground and it is not going to be in a defined pond like we have seen before. It is going to be in a depressed area and it is going to be on the asphalt. So, the person who drives by and sees the flooded area there will think someone screwed up, they left the flooding but actually it is operating as designed. He really didn’t have any other options. He used the asphalt and he had to use that depressed area. He didn’t have any other place to store water.”

Surveyor Sterrett said, “If you have ever seen The Shoe Store, their drainage system is like that, too. It has a little curb cut in it and it floods.” Engineer Frauhiger said, “When you think about a three inch curb cut, you are talking about all the water from this asphalt trying to work its way through a cut that big. We are going to flood this area. And we are going to flood the grassed area along Sixth Street. We have checked the calculations numerous times and it will work. The only thing is you will see water standing.”

Chairman Burton said the only alternative would be if they actually had a detention pond. Engineer Frauhiger said then you would still see the water standing. He said basically when it rains there will be water around the cars he is trying to sell (Car Lot site). Engineer Frauhiger stated, “I am comfortable with it, I think it is going to work, it is just the appearance of it. I wanted to make sure you understood what was going to happen so that the first time you start getting phone calls…..”

Board Member Heimlich made a motion to approve the drainage plan for Walgreens as recommended by Engineer Frauhiger. Board Member Ferguson seconded the motion. The motion carried unanimously.

Surveyor Sterrett presented a list of County Regulated Drains that he recommends for spraying. Chairman Burton questioned if the ditches had money in maintenance on hand. Surveyor Sterrett said he has some that are close. Chairman Burton asked if the Maintenance fund doesn’t have enough to cover spraying, should they spray and go in debt or hold off a year. Inaudible conversations at this point. Surveyor Sterrett remarked, “One that really needs sprayed, that has willows on it, and that is the C. M. Mertz #2. It is a tile, up on the Coble ground between Idaville and Burnettsville.” Board Member Heimlich asked why that one is in debt. Surveyor Sterrett explained that we work on it every year. Board Member Heimlich asked what the rate is on it. Assistant Sterrett said we are talking about raising the rate. Surveyor Sterrett stated, “Right now it is $2,454.00 in the red and it is on $1.00 an acre, collects $1,034.00 a year. It needs a Maintenance Modification done.” Board Member Heimlich said he thinks we had better raise the maintenance rate. Surveyor Sterrett asked, “Do you want to set that rate now so we can get started on Maintenance Modification. Right now it is two and a half years in debt. I took some pictures of this last one (repair). It is pretty ugly out there and I think it has been like that. If you look at the 1951 aerial it looks like the same water is running over the surface like it is now. We thought we had it fixed last year. It cost quite a bit. Some of those trees are on it and some aren’t. It is pretty hard to get back to spray them once the crops are up but I think we can drive up the waterway this year.” Board Member Heimlich said he thinks we should go ahead and spray it and do a Maintenance Modification. Inaudible conversation at this point.

Surveyor Sterrett asked, “Did you figure that at $3.00 an acre?” Board Member Heimlich said, “We have several at $3.00 an acre now, but if we spray it, do you have an estimate at the cost to spray it? I think it’s a third of a mile.” Surveyor Sterrett said three-tenths of a mile. Board Member Heimlich said, “I guess that’s what I would say. Raise it to $3.00. How about on some of these other ones that are in debt?”

Surveyor Sterrett reported, “The Myers Ditch, I went out and looked at all of these that are in the red. It probably could go, that’s 4.6 miles, it didn’t look that bad. IT looks like the landowners are keeping it sprayed.” Board Member Heimlich asked, “It is not in debt that much.” Surveyor Sterrett stated that this list is from what we did three years ago, the same ditches. He continued, “The Washburn. It is in debt $881.00 and the yearly assessment is $695.00 and it really needed it.” Board Member Heimlich asked, “The Gordon Bossung, what’s the maintenance rate on that?” Surveyor Sterrett answered he did not know. (Assistant Sterrett got the info during the meeting. It is $2.00 an acre.) Board Member Heimlich asked if it is still in debt from reconstruction. He thought it shouldn’t be (Assistant Sterrett said no) and asked if there has been other work done on that. Surveyor Sterrett said some of the debt is from spraying he thinks. (Later verified the reconstruction did get paid off.) He said, “We just had about six hundred feet of sandbar removed out there this Spring. I don’t think that was that much though. I think it is still from reconstruction. That Cox Branch, we have worked on it about every year. That’s the tile that runs north and south. North of the highway we have had trouble with it.”

Surveyor Sterrett reported, “I have had a request wanting to know if the spraying kills joint grass or snake grass, which is called scouring rush. The stuff that grows up the bank and goes out into the field. I called Dan Alexander who works for Townsend now. He says IDEM just approved a kill for that called Escort to be used in ditches. It is one ounce of Escort and eight ounces of Newfilm (?????) which is what retains it on the leaf, with a hundred gallons of water. So I wondered if we wanted to add that to our specs. I think he said it increased the cost $20.00 per hundred gallon.” Board Member Heimlich said, “I see it more and more all the time.” Chairman Burton said he has it in one place on one side of the ditch, and Board Member Heimlich said he has it a couple of ditches that he farms on. Surveyor Sterrett said the complaint was from Foutch in West Point Township. He said it would be tough to say where to spray it and where not to spray it. For discussions on what the Bossung brings in, the Washburn rate and what it brings in, etc. – see tape.) Surveyor Sterrett says the Washburn debt is mostly spraying and it has been in debt a long time. Board Member Heimlich said we’d better go ahead and spray it. Surveyor Sterrett said, “There is one there in Liberty Township, the Riffle, it’s not in debt and it won’t put it in debt, if it is the same cost as it was in 2003. So I guess we just want to look at that and see if it is alright to go ahead and spray that. Then the Reiff Ditch is the one we just had cleaned there at Burnettsville. I think we just sprayed the upper end of that in 2003. That’s what we put down a half a mile of it. We took the big stuff off of it and little stuff will start coming up. We probably ought to go ahead and spray it. Like I say, the W. F. Myers in Prairie Township can wait. The Cox Branch is in two different townships.” Board Member Heimlich said the Myers Ditch brings in enough to pay for spraying. He said to go ahead and spray it to keep it on schedule. Surveyor Sterrett continued, “The Vannatta in Round Grove Township and the Conner, Bush, those are on the reconstruction list so I didn’t see any need to spray them. By the way, I sent a letter to DNR on the Big Pine last week and I heard from them today. They are going to set up a meeting and come up and review the ditch. I think they have thirty days. They might require one of the Commissioners to be there (Chairman Burton said to let him know). They told me to send a letter to the Army Corps of Engineers. I sent one this morning. If we get this list out to the contractors today, that will give them ten days until the next Drainage Board meeting to give us a bid.” Someone asked if we should have completion time. Assistant Sterrett said it is August 31, 2006.


Chairman Burton asked for a motion to approve everything that is listed on the ditch spraying list and we will make an adjustment on the Washburn maintenance rate at a later date. Board Member Heimlich so moved. Board Member Ferguson seconded the motion. The motion carried unanimously.


Surveyor Sterrett presented the Certificate of Assessments on the completed F. G. Church Drain reconstruction project for the Board to sign before giving it to the Auditor. The amount of contract was $44,000.00 and Contingencies were $1,548.20 and Legal Notices $66.08 so that was the total of the assessments. The Board signed the document.


Surveyor Sterrett reported on the J. P. Carr Drain in Prairie Township, which is under reconstruction right now. He explained, “There was a private crossing on Branch 1 and I recommended putting two thirty-six inch smooth core pipes in there. Now we think we can take the old pipe off of CR 75 E, which is a four foot by six foot I think, elliptical pipe. I checked the grade and it will fit down there where that two thirty-sixes are. Steve Brooke said that we could have the pipe if we got it out. According to Code I am supposed to tell you about it and make a Change Order on it. Do you see anything wrong in moving that pipe down there? It would be at no expense to the landowner then, if we can get it out.”


Chairman Burton adjourned the meeting.