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April 2, 2007 Tape #007

The White County Drainage Board convened at l0:30 A.M., EDT in the Commissioners’ Room of the White County Building, Monticello, Indiana with Board Members Steven Burton, John C. Heimlich and Ronald Schmierer, Attorney George W. Loy, Surveyor Dennis W. Sterrett and Drainage Assistant Mary E. Sterrett.

Also attending the meeting were Don Pauken, Charles Mellon and Kyle Clampitt of Titan Construction and Engineering.

Chairman Schmierer called the meeting to order. Board Member Heimlich made a motion to approve the minutes of the March 19, 2007 meeting as presented. Board Chairman Schmierer seconded the motion. The motion carried unanimously.

Chairman Schmierer asked Surveyor Sterrett to present the next item on the agenda. Surveyor Sterrett stated that he would like to discuss the Holcomb Tile in Reynolds. “The Commissioners have asked questions about this tile so I thought I would show you how this tile ran (using an aerial map to show location of the tile). This blue is the best that I could plot the legal description, this yellow is where it looks like it is in the field and it is plotted fairly close.”

Chairman Schmierer said, “When I was talking to Greg Bossaer he said that when they cleaned up along the railroad at the Fair Ground, that the tile under the railroad is broken down. Surveyor Sterrett said, “There is another surface drain that goes under the railroad but the tile runs down to a catch basin and then it jumps over.” Board Member Heimlich stated that the tile runs to State Highway 24. Surveyor Sterrett showing the Holcomb Tile on the 1951 aerial map, “It runs down the Fair Grounds road down to State Highway 24, that is the way that map shows it. There is a catch basin on both sides of Main Street.” Chairman Schmierer asked, “Where does it enter the Community?” Surveyor Sterrett answered, “It goes straight to a catch basin and we think it jumps over to Main Street, but not really sure. I was over to look at the tile after the rain and there was water standing.” Chairman Schmierer said, “When I was talking to them the other night I asked why we could not come straight across the Fair Ground’s property over to the ditch.” Board Member Heimlich made the statement that they do have a new tile up to 25 East and under the road. Will that tile pick up the water in the area that they are asking about? “No!”

Charlie (Van Voorst) seems to think that the tile is broken down under the Co-op. Surveyor Sterrett said, “I have not walked the tile, the old tile is still in, we have repaired it before and there is a new tile.” The question was asked, who lives up in the corner? Mr. Coffin was the answer, “That was fixed for him several year ago”, said Chairman Schmierer.

Board Member Heimlich said, “I have heard that it could be broke down under the Co-op. I think that the tile runs actually under the building at the Co-op.” Surveyor Sterrett stated, “If you use the yellow or blue line it does not show it running under the building.” Board Member Heimlich has also heard that the tile could be broke down out in the field.

Surveyor Sterrett thought that Mr. Coffin’s project was over $15,000.00, it was very expensive to repair in that sand and maybe it could be plugged up in there. The tile was fixed where the two tiles come together, on Mr. Coffin. All the tile was replaced starting at Mr. Coffin’s garden, so actually there are two tiles.

Board Member Heimlich asked, “If we have to dig it up in a couple different places to see if it is plugged how many feet would that be?” Answer was, approximately 600 feet, plus or minus. It was suggested to talk to Steve Brooke about digging up the tile in several places and jetting to see if water will go both ways. Board Members suggested to contact Steve Brooke and hire a contractor to dig up the tile to see if the problem can be found by jetting the tile.

Next on the agenda Surveyor Sterrett talked about TP&W Piggy Back Site, because of water is standing in the fields. Surveyor Sterrett stated that he had tried to contact the gentlemen that was pumping the water out of the ponds for T P & W but he no longer works for them. Finally he found the gentleman that was taking care of the T P & W pumps. The Surveyor visited the site, there was a pump running and it had pumped about two feet and that is as far as it (the pond) can be pumped down. Chairman Schmierer asked, “Do they use the pumps that were put in to pump the ponds or do they come in a drop a pump in? Chairman Schmierer stated that is the way that it was done a few years ago.”

Surveyor Sterrett said, “It is really a unique system, each pond appears as it can be drained by gravity. There is a pit with values and manholes that go over to the pit that they pump the water out of, now they can’t do that. I tired to get TP&W to do that a few years ago when their pump was too big, it would keep up with gravity feed. Now they pump it out of the pond, the end pond drains into the middle pond and the middle pond drains into the pond that they are pumping. They can only pump the water down two feet and that is as far as they can get it down.”

Chairman Schmierer stated, “So there is someone pumping there again!” Surveyor Sterrett stated the gentleman doing the pumping talked as if he wasn’t going to put up with that kind of pumping because TP&W rents the pump out of Lafayette and that is only a six inch pump. He thought they would try to get a permanent pump and put a building over, the pump. Chairman Schmierer, “So they can run it like a sump pump.” It was asked if the water goes into a tile? Answer from Surveyor Sterrett, “It goes about a mile and one half into Jasper County, goes into a tile runs along the railroad track, then forced about a half of mile, then for about a mile it is gravity into Carpenter Creek. There are manholes all along the track about every three or four hundred feet.”

There is still water standing in the fields when Surveyor Sterrett was at the site. He stated you could see where the water lines were on the ponds and it was down about two (2) feet. Chairman Schmierer stated that TP&W has new people running the pumps again. The gentleman that Surveyor Sterrett talked to said he had been with TP&W for thirty years. Board Member Steven Burton said that this was brought to the Boards attention by one the land owners in the corridor was a little perturbed that this was an on going thing. Mr. Pilotte? Yes! He (Mr. Pilotte) is the one that has contacted the Drainage Board before. Board Member Heimlich stated that Denny Mathew has also called about the ponds not working. Surveyor Sterrett said that Mr. Pilotte calls every year that the pond would fill up and he in return calls the people from TP&W to come and pump it out. Mr. Pilotte has not called the Surveyor this year.

Next on the agenda, the Holladay Ditch located on Scott Schneider’s property. County Line Tiling/Excavating is cleaning the Big Pine Ditch and the Holladay empties into it and Mike Ezra was suppose to go up the Holladay Branch five hundred feet up that branch to make a good grade where the two come together. He (Mike Ezra) tried to get across the Holladay to get back on the Big Pine and got his excavator stuck. He ran over some trees that were on Scott Schneider’s property. Mike has this problem taken care of; he told Surveyor Sterrett that he would dip the rest of the Holladay Ditch out at no charge.

Surveyor Sterrett talked to the Drainage Broad about Rangeline Properties Transfer Station. Surveyor Sterrett said, “They have an approved drainage plan and they have their easement recorded that they needed for their detention pond that was on the other lot. I didn’t find a Consent to Encroach on that tile; I don’t know where George is at on that, I did not find it recorded.” Attorney George Loy said, “So we ran across an old tile right?” Surveyor Sterrett said, “Right, the tile went diagonally through there and I got the minutes of the meeting here, it was nineteen feet in two different places. Do you want the copy of the minutes?” Attorney Loy said, “Yes, then this other matter came up and things got stalled.” Board Member Heimlich asked, “So they never ever got the Consent to Encroach, we only granted the Consent to Encroach.” Attorney Loy didn’t think that he had not prepared the Consent to Encroach.

Surveyor Sterrett said, They (Rangeline Properties Transfer Station) do not have their Drainage Permit, which is Thirty-Five Dollars, they owe a Drainage Review fee Sixteen Hundred and Seven Dollars and Fifty Cents. ($1607.50). Attorney Loy asked, “The Drainage Plan was approved?” Surveyor Sterrett answered, “The Drainage Plan was approved, the Consent to Encroach was approved and I don’t know where they are at with IDEM.” Attorney Loy said, “He thought that was the subject of the meeting.”

Board Member Steven Burton said, “The equivocal part, we approved the Drainage Plan contingent on IDEM approving that, “right”? There was this game of who approves it first.” Board Member John Heimlich stated that IDEM had approved a prior plan and so we said when they had to get a new plan, that it had to go back through IDEM because IDEM had not approved that plan. Attorney Loy said, “IDEM was looking for however some letter from the County saying this other adjacent lot was being used consistently with the zoning or whatever and that was the subject of the BZA. Board Member John Heimlich stated, “That would have to come from Area Plan not from the us (The Drainage Board).

Surveyor Sterrett reading from October 3, 2005 Drainage Board Minutes. “Attorney Loy stated, “IDEM has to eventually approve it, they just have to have something to approve.” Attorney Loy stated, “You can approve what you are looking at subject to any other required permits, including IDEM.” Attorney Loy ask, “What were they looking at?” Surveyor Sterrett said, “The Drainage Plan.”

Board Member Heimlich said, “They were arguing that the Drainage Plan that IDEM had approved was not as detailed or as restrictive as the new one that we had required. We said that it did not make any difference it was still that IDEM had approved something and now it has changed. Chairman Schmierer said, “Make sure Dave or Area Plan knows not to give them a building permit until approval from the State.”

Attorney Loy asked to see the minutes from the old meeting. Attorney Loy said, “Their plans have changed in the mean time or have their plans changed?” Surveyor Sterrett answered, “Not to my knowledge, nobody has submitted any different plans than what we approved.” Attorney Loy said, “He would get a copy of that and starting putting one together, the Consent to Encroach. What is the name of that tile drain?” Answer, “The Diener Tile Drain.”

Chairman Schmierer asked what else the Surveyor Sterrett had to discuss with the Drainage Board. Surveyor Sterrett reported that he has a bunch of tile break downs. The tiles that are blocked right now, I don’ know if any of you have gotten calls on it or not. The tile west of the Range Line at 300 East on State Road 18, there is a tile by an INDOT catch basin and INDOT has an orange fence around it. Chairman Schmierer said, “Down by Brookston?” Answer “Yes,” Chairman Schmierer said, “That he had seen it the other day.” Surveyor Sterrett said, “That is the Ferguson Tile and it looks like there is water backed up to the north, quiet a bit. Surveyor Sterrett called INDOT and they said they had locates done on it and they were going to start working on it, maybe this week.” Surveyor Sterrett asked, “Do you see and further actions that I need to take?” Chairman Schmierer answered, “I don’t suppose if they are going to work on it, you can’t work on their right of way.” Surveyor Sterrett said, “It is in their right of way and they say they had to get a permit from the district, from Indianapolis, to work on their own right of way.”

Surveyor Sterrett said, “Jack Pherson has contracted me on State Highway 39 and State Highway 24, the Leslie Henry Tile, Mr. Pherson doesn’t think it is moving right. Nick Beasy went by there this morning and said that the water is going down, going down slow. It is the one going through Dick Coble. Chairman Schmierer said, “Jim Paschen had contacted him about that and said that those two tiles had been put together on the same Maintenance. There was work that needed to be done on the one and that they should have never been put on the same Maintenance.” Surveyor Sterrett said, “The only connection they have is with the ravine, where they empty into it. Chairman Schmierer said, “They are two separate tiles, but they put them on the same Maintenance, why, I don’t know.” Surveyor Sterrett answered, “They just added the Leslie Henry Tile to the A.P. Gladden.” Chairman Schmierer said, “That is what he (Jim Paschen) was saying, that one of them needs work done on it now but I don’t know which one. The day that I talked to him it was raining and I told him, I wasn’t going out there today.” Surveyor Sterrett said, “He (James Paschen) saw me at the restaurant, he thinks they should be separated and I kind of agree with him.” Chairman Schmierer said, “I don’t know why they were ever put together. He said it was done when Jim Milligan was…….” Surveyor Sterrett replied, The only thing I could think of was that it was simpler to do it by adding it to another drain then putting it on by itself.” Chairman Schmierer asked, “If they were on separate Maintenance or are they on the same Maintenance?” Answer, they are on the same Maintenance. The question was asked, is there any money in the Maintenance Fund? Surveyor Sterrett answered, “I don’t know how much is in there. When we work on the Leslie Henry, it comes out of the A.P. Gladden too.

Chairman Schmierer asked, “There at Thirty-nine and Twenty-four, if my memory serves me right, didn’t we dig up a hole out there once and try to hydro vac that or something, blow it out with water.” Surveyor Sterrett answered, “We did north of there, a quarter mile where the pond is at, actually we have that cleaned out. We have done a bunch of work on it were it goes through that gentleman’s yard. Chairman Schmierer asked, “If a willow tree had been removed?” Answer from Surveyor Sterrett, “We have not taken out any trees yet, there was one setting on top of it at one time but it has been gone for awhile. Repaired it right by his garage.” Chairman Schmierer asked, “Did it go under his garage?” “No, it went to the side of it, the trench ended up about two feet from his garage door after we got done. Then we repaired it on the other side of his house and we jetted it out several times, also had a root cutter run through it last year. It cost a Thousand Dollars, it did help, it started draining real good. It goes under a house on south of there. I guess I can go out there with the County’s Jet; we have two catch basin on it. I looked at it and water was running through it.” Chairman Schmierer said, “If it will help it, we have had a lot of water in the last week or two, it is not going to take it all, they want it all gone in a half hour.” Surveyor Sterrett said, “Beside that, they connected another tile that went up by Kozy Kove Motel, they ran another tile in that low place and drained another pond so that water is probably coming down there and coming up. It was asked who done that? Surveyor Sterrett answered, “It’s Buschman’s ground, I don’t know who had it done.”

Surveyor Sterrett’s next issue, Mike Creigh on north where his pond is, that is not draining now. Charles Mellon said, “Got the horses out there, west side has big pond, goes into big field on the east side, that water has not gone down an inch.” Surveyor Sterrett said, “Mike Creigh stated that has gone down alittle last night but it is not going down right.” That is the Riffle Tile that runs east then ties into the Moorhous that runs through Wayne Hunt. Surveyor Sterrett called Wayne’s daughter-in-law and asked if water was standing in the field and she said, “Yes!”, so Surveyor Sterrett thinks he should go out to see why that tile is not working.

Surveyor Sterrett’s next tile issue, the tile that the County worked on over by 1300 East and Stringtown Road for Dick Coble. That water is running out on top the ground again. Chairman Schmierer asked, “Down where they all come together?” Answer, “Yes, on north of there, where the willows were removed, we had it rooted out and it was working fine when we left it last fall. Dick Coble called this Spring and said water is running out on top of the ground. I think it is overloaded myself. I have a work order in to Alan Howe to go out and look at it.” Surveyor Sterrett’s said, “I have not looked at Robert Scroggs yet, in Idaville. The pond that is on the North side of the highway, that is the same tile system. Chairman Schmierer said, “That pond has been there for years.”

Board Member Steven Burton asked Surveyor Sterrett, “Have you called the gentleman back that was talking about flagging on the ditch. Is that what you are talking about off of Twenty Four?” Surveyor Sterrett answered, “Yes, I called him back, that was Mr. Scroggs. I told him that I would get over to look at it as soon as I could and he said “No Problem.” Mr. Scroggs didn’t know why the flags were there and I didn’t know either.” Board Member Steven Burton said, “Mr. Scroggs was just concerned there but if you have addressed that, that’s fine. The question was asked, “What were the flags for?” Board Member Steven Burton answered, “The State Highway or the Gas Company or somebody was flagging the side ditch, which was not even close to his pond. Mr. Scroogs thought that they were doing it for the County.”

Surveyor Sterrett said, “I have ten drains that have been called about, in the last fourteen days. Well, some a little older than that and most of them are at the head end of the ditch where the tiles come out. The tiles are under water. Chairman Schmierer said, “Just work on them when you can get to them, that is about all you can do.”

Surveyor Sterrett said, “We are working on the A.K. Ruth Drain, we have about 2000 feet of the branch to survey then we will be done with the field work on that drain. We will be working on that now because now leaves are coming out.

Mr. Kyle Clampitt was attending the Draining Board Meeting for Easton Technical Products Drainage Review which was postponed until the April 5, 2007; he was notified of this change.

Chairman Schmierer asked Board Member John Heimlich if he had anything for the Drainage Board. He replied, “That there would be a Hearing on Indian Creek, April 3th, 2007 at 5:00 P.M., at the Cass County Court House.”

Charles Mellon asked Board Member John Heimlich about “Monon”. He replied, “I don’t know if there is a Hearing date scheduled, finial, but there is a Maintenance Modification Hearing that was being scheduled, it will be sometime this month.”

Chairman Schmierer adjourned the meeting.