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June 18, 2007 Tape #013

The White County Drainage Board convened at 10:37 A. M., EDT in the Commissioner’s Room of the White County Building, Monticello, Indiana with Board Members Steven Burton, John C. Heimlich and Ronald Schmierer, Attorney George W. Loy, Surveyor Sterrett and Drainage Assistant Mary E. Sterrett in attendance.


Other present were Charles Mellon, Brian Carnahan, Steve Diener, Contractor Walt Williams, Charles Geier, Jeff Van Weeldon and Attorney Dow Dellinger.


Chairman Schmierer called the Drainage Broad Meeting to order. Board Member Steve Burton made a motion to approve the minutes of the June 4, 2007 Drainage Board Meeting, Board Member John C. Heimlich seconded the motion. The motion carried unanimously.


Next on the agenda Indiana Waste Systems, Inc. Drainage Permit. Surveyor Sterrett said, “This is the letter that Dow (Attorney Dow Dellinger) dropped off at our office on June the 6th. Chairman Schmierer said, “We already have a drainage plan presented by them, don’t we?” Surveyor Sterrett replied, “The drainage plan has been approved.” Attorney Loy said, “Denny (Surveyor Sterrett) contacted me the same day and I attempted to contact the individual members by phone, I did talk to Ron (Chairman Schmierer) and it is my understanding that IDEM is requiring an updated building permit because the old has expired, that is all they are looking for, of course a condition of the building permit is a drainage permit.”


Chairman Schmierer said, “It is my understanding that the drainage permit wasn’t approved unless the IDEM was approved, is that right?” Attorney Loy said, “I think that is where it has been left, some time ago.” Boardman Heimlich said, “You mean from our end? Board Member Heimlich continued, we had approved the drainage permit but what IDEM had approved before wasn’t the same as what we approved.” Surveyor Sterrett said, “It went back to IDEM with an insignificant modification and IDEM did not accepted that and said that they needed a minor one so that is what they are going for now a minor modification. Part of the requirements according to the State Statutes is that they have a copy of an improvement location permit.” Surveyor Sterrett had Dave Anderson (Building Commissioner) come to the meeting because the Surveyor understood that the improvement location permit is part of the building permit.


Dave Anderson stated, “Area Plan issues the improvement location permit and I issue the building permit. Once ….has been satisfied, the building permit is the final play. They still need an improvement location permit except IDEM don’t understand. Which Diann (Area Plan Director) says that she does not have a problem with this, all though she is not here today.” Surveyor Sterrett said, “I stopped and talked to Diann this morning and she said that she couldn’t come to the meeting that she had to be in Indianapolis. She said that she didn’t have a problem or she didn’t think she did, she couldn’t think of anything that would keep her from issuing an improvement location permit for a five (5) yard compactor.” Surveyor Sterrett said that a letter had been sent to Area Plan that the Drainage Board had approved the drainage plan for Indiana Waste Systems, Inc.


Chairman Schmierer asked, “So what do you need out of the Drainage Board today if the drainage plan has already been approved?” Attorney Dow Dellinger replied, “I guess what we are looking for is what ever Dave (Building Commissioner) needs because Dave has told us that he couldn’t issue until he gets a drainage permit issued.” Chairman Schmierer said, “If we have already issued a drainage……” Attorney Loy stated, “Sign off on the drainage portion of the building permit.” Chairman Schmierer replied, “We have already done that!” Surveyor Sterrett said, “I had sent her a letter (Diann Weaver) .” Attorney Loy responded, “On the old one perhaps!”


Surveyor Sterrett said that a copy of a letter that he had received from Dow Dellinger from IDEM probably should have gone to Diann Weaver (Area Plan Director). Board Member Steve Burton said, “By our minutes we would not approve it, we approved it but we would not approve it until it went back to IDEM.” Board Member Heimlich said, “We wanted it to go back to IDEM because the drainage plan that IDEM had approved previously had been changed.” Attorney Dow Dellinger said, “John is right, they approved that, now the building permit had expired by the time everything got approved now we got to get back and apparently say that the drainage permit is approved then go to Dave (Building Commissioner) to get a building permit.


Attorney Loy said we need to reconfirm your approval of your drainage plan and who ever signs off on the building permit, he asked the Surveyor if he was the one who signs off on the building permit and the Surveyor answered “No”, he does not issue the improvement location permit. Attorney Loy responded, “I know that you don’t do that but you sign off that the drainage plan has been approved.” Surveyor Sterrett answered, “Yes”, and I sent Diann (Area Plan Director) a letter in 2005 stating that it was approved.” Attorney Loy stated, “You need to reconfirm that.”


Chairman Schmierer stated, “That he needed a motion to reconfirm the drainage permit.” Board Member John Heimlich stated, “I will make that motion but I’m not sure what the motion is, I guess we are saying that we did approve the drainage permit for Indiana Waste Systems in …. I don’t know when we did that but I will make that motion.” Attorney Loy said, “That the plan was modified some how by IDEM, I thought the Drainage Board was holding up the……….” Surveyor Sterrett said, “There were four (4) things that needed to be done one of them was the drainage permit approval, drainage review fees needed to be paid and the consent to encroach. The consent to encroach was done in April 18th , the drainage review fees were paid in April 18th and the drainage plan had been approved so we are waiting to issue a drainage permit now.” Board Member Heimlich stated, “There really was not anything changed George other than what IDEM had originally, the drainage plan that they had originally approved was different than what we approved and so we just said when we approved that drainage plan we said that IDEM needs to see this because it is different than what they approved before.”


Board Member John Heimlich made the motion to reconfirm the drainage approval for Indiana Waste Systems, Inc. and the motion was seconded by Board Member Steve Burton. The motion carried unanimously. Surveyor Sterrett asked, “So now I can issue them a drainage permit?” Answered from the Drainage Board was “Yes”.


Next on the agenda the spraying of the Milton Martin Ditch . Surveyor Sterrett said, “We discussed this at the last meeting and he had gone out and took some pictures. Showing the pictures on the projector he showed the Drainage Board what Darrell Erb wanted sprayed on the ditch and the location. The Surveyor stated that the ditch had been sprayed last year and that as you can see the brush has been killed. Board Member Heimlich said he didn’t know what he (Darrell Erb) wants sprayed, the weeds? The Surveyor said probably the white weeds-Queen Anne’s Lace and that is on all the ditch banks and railroads. Board Member Burton said that Cross Bow won’t touch them. Surveyor Sterrett said, “I called Dan Alexander and he said he would probably have to put Two Four D in to kill that and I think it will come up next year.” Chairman Schmierer asked what will Two Four D do to the grass. Board Members Burton and Heimlich said that it would not bother the grass just broad leaves.


Surveyor Sterrett said that there is about one hundred (100) foot of heavy brush from where it was sprayed last year. Board Member Heimlich said we are not going to spray that heavy brush and that he would ask Darrell Erb what he had in mind because if it is the big stuff we aren’t going to spray that.


Looking at the pictures on the projector Surveyor Sterrett said, “Looking at the west side of the railroad where the Stone Quarry is located there is no brush down to the other Stone Quarry but they must keep their side sprayed. It was sprayed last year and it looks like he did a good job. Board Member Heimlich agreed that it looks like the brush was killed and he didn’t know what Darrell Erb was talking about. Chairman Schmierer looking at the pictures said it looked pretty clean to him. Board Member Burton said the white weeds look like brush because the stem on it looks like a tree but it is not.


Dan Alexander told the Surveyor that if the Board was not satisfied with the spraying job that he had done last year, he would come back and spray it again this year. The Drainage Board agreed that they didn’t see anything wrong with the spraying last year, that the brush was dead. Board Member Heimlich said that he might see Darrell Erb at the Monon Ditch Meeting and he would ask him what he had in mind that needed sprayed.


Next on the agenda Diener Brothers-Wavier. Surveyor Sterrett said they are wanting to put up a 193’ by 68’ grain storage building on their property which is north of Diener Brothers Seeds, showing the location on the projector. It is over the ten thousand square foot of impervious surface requirement for a drainage plan. If the building would have been on the Diener’s forty (40) acre site it would not have been a problem but they deeded that site to the contractor.


Steve Diener said, “For a Ten Thirty-One like Exchange Deal, that’s have the contractor which is Walt Williams, buy the property, build the building and do all the improvements made on that site. Then we will get it back from him when everything is done.” Surveyor Sterrett said, “They have cut out a one (1) acre tract and they are putting this building on that site so that makes a small site and the run off is going to go ………”. Chairman Schmierer said, “On their property, onto them.” Surveyor Sterrett said “yes” and he thought the square footage was 13,000 to 14,000 square feet.


Board Member Heimlich said, “So the only property that it affects is Dieners except what you are taking ownership of while…….” Contractor Walt Williams said, “What I am taking ownership of will be totally transferred back to them when the job is complete.” Chairman Schmierer said, “I don’t know how the drainage is going to affect anybody but them.” Board Member Heimlich replied, “It is kind of that example of building in the middle of a one hundred and sixty (160) acre field that we always use for a wavier except for the fact that some one else is taking control temporarily or ownership. Maybe it just needs something to sign off on.” Surveyor Sterrett said, “If Diener Brothers would sign off of it…..” Board Member Heimlich said, “It wouldn’t be Diener Brothers be sign off, they are the ones it is affecting. I would think that it would be Mr. Williams that would sign off.” Surveyor Sterrett replied, “If they don’t have the problem with the drainage running on them.” Attorney Loy said, “Diener still owns the surrounding property, I would have Diener sign off too.” Chairman Schmierer said just have the two of them sign off in a letter.


Board Member Heimlich made a motion to grant a waiver on the Diener Brothers Building Project contingent on a sign off letter from both the Contractor Walt Williams and Diener Brothers. Motion seconded by Board Member Burton and the motion carried unanimously.


Next on the agenda Brian Carnahan consent to encroach on the Church Ditch. Surveyor Sterrett reported that a building permit had come in to his office and it was on the Church Ditch in Lincoln Township, Section Six (6), White County, Indiana. The house is sixty-five (65) feet from the ditch bank and he wants to add twenty-four (24) feet so that will be it forty-one (41) feet from the ditch bank. Chairman Schmierer asks if it would affect the County if it needed to be cleaned again. Surveyor Sterrett said “no", actually it was cleaned from the north side the last time so there would be plenty of room.


Attorney Loy said to Mr. Carnahan, “I will need a copy of your deed to your property. I will draw up a Limited Consent to Encroach, the Board will consent to what you are doing here but there is a lot of fine print in it. In case years down the road the presence of your improvements causes any increase in cost because they have to repair the ditch at that spot or they have to work around it or something. You will incur that extra cost and I have yet to see that happen.”


Chairman Schmierer entertained a motion to approve the consent to encroach to Brian Carnahan on the Church Ditch, Board Member Heimlich made the motion. Board Member Burton seconded the motion and the motion carried unanimously.


A Drainage Review on The Pines Subdivision was next on the agenda. Surveyor Sterrett said, “The Pines is out north of the dam, showing the location on the projector. It is along Neininger Drive, it is the property that Red Burns use to own then Willie Roth purchased and sold it to Juris. Chairman Schmierer asked, “Have they done a drainage plan?” Surveyor Sterrett answered “no” they are requesting a wavier. Chairman Schmierer asked, “How big of subdivision is this?” Surveyor Sterrett answered, six (6) lots. Chairman Schmierer replied, “Why would they request a wavier, they are going to affect other people aren’t they?”


Surveyor Sterrett said he and Todd had gone out to look at the subdivision. Showing pictures on the projector the Surveyor said that there is a ravine on the north line, there is already a house there, a garage and the ravine so it has natural drainage to that ravine. Board Member Heimlich asked just where the subdivision was located. Attorney Loy asked if it was Willie Roth’s old house and if it is located straight across from The Beach and the Surveyor said it was. Chairman Schmierer added it is north of the dam on the north east side of the lake.


Surveyor Sterrett continued, the only problem that Todd and he found was that one of the lots has a ridge on it and the water runs off towards a garage. Chairman Schmierer asked who submitted the subdivision and the Surveyor answered Jim Milligan and he requested a waiver from the Drainage Ordinance. There is a catch basin right here, showing it on the projected picture. Chairman Schmierer asked if Todd Frauhiger had look at the site and if he had charged to look at it. The Surveyor answered “yes” he (Todd) had looked at it and the Surveyor had collected a $250.00 Drainage Review Fee. Todd Frauhiger and the Surveyor see no problem with the drainage plan that was submitted for review.


Board Member Burton asked, “There is an air well on the highest point?” Surveyor Sterrett replied, “No, probably about right on the property line, it was hard to tell where the property line was but it is on north top of bank. The water comes down runs into the catch basin runs around the side of the garage into another catch basin. That lot naturally drains to a ravine and where the garage sits it drains into the ravine and all the other lots drain into the ravine. It all drains away from Neininger Drive.


Board Member Heimlich on the recommendation of the Surveyor and Todd Frauhiger made a motion that a wavier be granted from the Drainage Ordinance to The Pines Subdivision in Union Township. Board Member Steve Burton seconded the motion and the motion carried unanimously.


Next on the agenda a drainage review on the KGB Subdivision requesting a wavier from the Drainage Ordinance. Surveyor Sterrett said the subdivision is along the lake on Tioga Road. Chairman Schmierer asked if the owners had submitted a drainage review fee and if the Surveyor and Todd Frauhiger had been to the site. The Surveyor said that they had submitted a fee and that he and Todd had been to the site.


Showing pictures from the projector the Surveyor showed the location of the subdivision. The Surveyor showed Tioga Road, the Dead End Bridge and property previously owned by John Freeman. He said there is already a drive going back to the subdivision but they will probably have to rebuild part of the drive where the cal-d-sac is located, Lot 4 has a house on it, Lot 3 has a house on it and Lot 2 has nothing on it, Tract A is a green area, Tract B is a green area and Lot 1 has nothing on it.


Boardman Member Heimlich asked who owned the subdivision and the Surveyor said, Misenheimer and Creigh. Chairman Schmierer asked if Surveyor Sterrett had been out to look at everything. He said he had and that everything drains to the lake.


Chairman Schmierer entertained a motion to approve the KGB Subdivision wavier, Board Member Heimlich moved the motion and Board Member Steve Burton seconded the motion. The motion carried unanimously.


Next on the agenda Charles Geier on the James Carter Ditch-Charles Geier said, “My entrance way there is pretty limited on the width, so to block out the junk yard there. I wasn’t trying to be a law breaker but I built the berm and put the trees there to block out the junk yard. I left space behind the berm to get an excavator in there to clean the ditch. The spoil could be laid right on that ledge.” He then showed picture that he had taken to the Drainage Board. He said that it would give the Board an idea of the width of the ledge.


Chairman Schmierer said that he had been out and looked at it and the Surveyor was also out. Chairman Schmierer said, “He didn’t think there was a question about it other than, I think we sent you a letter that if we damaged it or had to get into it to clean the ditch that it is your liability not ours, if we tore up the trees or something.” Board Member Burton said, “Kind of like the guy with the house.” Mr. Geier said, “That’s no problem.” Chairman Schmierer replied, “That is the only reason why we sent you the letter to let you know that if we have to clean it or something and they get tore out by accident why that’s not our fault.” Mr. Geier replied, “That is no problem!”


Chairman Schmierer stated we did send him a letter? The Surveyor said “yes” we sent a letter would you like to see it? The reply was “no”. Mr. Geier said, “There is enough space there to get a machine in to clean it from that side, if we need it, too.” Chairman Schmierer said, “That’s fine, when they encroach we do that with every body, just tell them if we tear it up. … If someone has a fence on the line and we have to take it out to do a ditch it is their fence, it is their responsibility. That is all it is!” Charles Geier said, “In other words I will not have to tear it out.” Answer from the Drainage Board was “NO!”


Surveyor Sterrett said to the Drainage Board if you remember I reported to the Board that Hub Tack wanted to come and scan our section corner records, the Surveyor just wants to report on what they have done. They were here about three hours and scanned 1,230 records and are suppose to send us a disc, assorted discs, on two different formats. We can send their disc to the State to put on their site and they also gave us access to Hub Tack’s site so we can access section corners from their site.


Drainage Assistant Mary Sterrett reported to the Drainage Board that she had a phone call from Emerson and Manahan, Attorneys from Delphi, just before this meeting. Carroll County is wanting to raise the Maintenance Assessments on the Louis Friday Ditch which White County shares with Carroll County. Kim from that office asked if White County wants to be on the Joint Board or do we want a letter to waiver our rights. Chairman Schmierer said, “He would set on a Joint Board with them I did before.” Mary said that the meeting is August 6, 2007 at 8:30 A. M., the same time as White County’s Commissioners Meeting. Chairman Schmierer asked to have them change the date because of the Commissioners Meeting but we will put someone on the Joint Board.


Surveyor Sterrett had used the new projector to show the drainage plans and pictures that he had taken and he asked the Board Members what they thought of it. They all thought it was great! No papers to mess with during the meeting.


Surveyor Sterrett asked on Charlie Geier was the decision that he didn’t have to move the trees? “No”, he doesn’t have to remove them now but as long as he understands that the trees may be subject to removal. Charlie did leave ten (10) feet there but the Surveyor questions whether that will be enough room to get an excavator in if the County needs to get in to clean that ditch.


Chairman Schmierer adjourned the meeting.