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October 15, 2007 Tape #022

The White County Drainage Board convened at 10:30 A.M. in the Commissioners’ Room of the White County Building, Monticello, Indiana, with Board Members Ronald Schmierer, John Heimlich and Steve Burton, Attorney George W. Loy, Surveyor Dennis Sterrett, Drainage Assistant Mary Sterrett and Secretary Jamie Rozzi in attendance.


Charles Mellon, Charlie Van Voorst, and Jerry Gutwein were also in attendance.


Chairman Schmierer opened the meeting asking for approval of the minutes for the October 1, 2007 meeting. Board Member Burton so moved. Board Member Heimlich seconded the motion. Motion carried.


The second item on the agenda opening quotes on the Esther Fraser Maintenance Project. Attorney Loy asked Surveyor Sterrett how many bid invitations were sent for the project. Surveyor Sterrett replied that four invitations had been sent. Attorney Loy stated that three quotes had been received for the Esther Fraser Maintenance Project.


The following quotes were submitted:

County Line Tiling & Excavating of Winamac $41,356.00

Gutwein Tiling & Excavating of Francesville $47,500.00

Grade A Excavating & Bulldozing of Logansport $53,505.00


“There was a 5% Bid Bond, correct?” Attorney Loy asked.


“Yes,” Surveyor Sterrett replied.


Attorney Loy examined all the quotes to make sure they were in order. Attorney Loy stated that all bids were in order and the low bid was from County Line Tiling & Excavating.


“What was your estimate?” Attorney Loy asked.


“My estimate for the Esther Fraser Maintenance Project was $56,731.00,” Surveyor Sterrett replied.


Board Member Heimlich stated that since he owns land that is assessed on the Esther Fraser he would not be voting.


Board Member Burton so moved. Chairman Schmierer seconded the motion. Motion carried to approve County Line Tiling and Excavating’s bid of $41,356.00 for the Esther Fraser Ditch Maintenance Project.


Board Member Heimlich stated, “Someone asked me on which side of the ditch the spoil would be going on? I believe that the last time it was on the west side, at there along US 24.”


Surveyor Sterrett replied, “I didn’t set up any schedule as to which side the spoil would be placed on. Usually we let the contractor decide that, if the property owner doesn’t agree with it, then we’ll have to make a decision. Usually it’s the low side. I don’t know whether they’ll have any trouble reaching it or not. Where the Bossung comes in they’ll have to be on that side to clean 500 foot upstream and then on the other side is where the Kleyla comes in so they’ll have to be on that side so they will have to track around.”


The next item on the agenda was Abbott Subdivision. This is a two lot subdivision. Chairman Schmierer asked, “Who owns the ground around it?”


Surveyor Sterrett replied, “I am not sure. I can look on GIS as soon as it loads.”


Board Member Heimlich asked, “Where is that located?”


Surveyor Sterrett replied, “It is on Third Street, north of Ireland Street. I am going to show you on GIS, but it hasn’t loaded yet.”


“It is up north of where the VFW is,” Charlie Mellon stated.


“It is located just to the north of the NIPSCO substation that is across from the old RCA property,” Surveyor Sterrett stated.


“Is it part of the old RCA property?” Chairman Schmierer asked.


“No, there is a high tension line running north and south just to the east and the line is about 50 feet from the center of the high tension line,” Surveyor Sterrett continued.


“That isn’t going to change the drainage in any way, is it?” Chairman Schmierer asked.


“No, there is a house on Lot 2 already and there is a water meter on Lot 1. It looks like there had been a house on Lot 1 at one time. I took Doug Roberts out there and he didn’t see any problems with it. I don’t see any problems with it. Area Plan has passed it contingent upon the Drainage waiver and they have to dedicate 5 more feet along Third Street because Third Street has only 40 foot right of way,” Surveyor Sterrett explained.


Board Member Heimlich moved to grant a waiver from the drainage ordinance for the Abbott Subdivision. Board Member Burton seconded the motion. Motion carried.


The next item on the agenda is Charlie Van Voorst, representing VeraSun, to discuss the Holcomb Tile.


Charlie Van Voorst explained, “I am representing VeraSun Reynolds. In order to hook up to our rail loop we need to come off of CSX with a rail spur. Just east of Excel Co-Op on the Diener property, on the southwest corner, we will actually be crossing the Holcomb Tile. We are proposing to reroute that a little bit and put a 15 inch concrete tile underneath that rail loop, which would be about 70 feet.”


“Is that going to correct the water problem at that end of town?” Chairman Schmierer asked.


“Probably not,” Charlie Van Voorst replied.


“We are actually going to extend this a little bit because we need about 70 feet. It has to be concrete tile. So, we are proposing to go underneath the rail. We are not sure what size of tile that is, but we would like to dig it up and see,” Charlie Van Voorst continued.


“I think it is a 15 or 16 inch tile,” Surveyor Sterrett explained.


“We think we will have to reroute the tile a little bit because we think it goes right along the CSX rail. We aren’t sure if it is along the easement of the railroad or whether it’s over on the east side of the fence. We would like to be able to dig that up and locate it,” Charlie Van Voorst stated.


Surveyor Sterrett added, “I think it is about where you have it shown. We had it dug up and repaired part of it. We took a probe and it curved around and went south. Then we went further down and dug it up on the outside of the right of way and it was plastic there. It has been reconstructed.” (East of CSX RR)


Charlie Van Voorst explained, “What we would like to do is go on over 70 feet and get away from what this is that would be underneath the rail and come over and put SDR 35 from here over to tie back into the existing 15 inch plastic tile.”


“So you are going to abandon the tile where it is along the railroad and put in new tile, correct?” Chairman Schmierer asked.


“Yes, that is correct,” Charlie Van Voorst replied.


Surveyor Sterrett presented a drawing of what he had come up with when they repaired it before. He pointed out the new siding and the main railroad line. Surveyor Sterrettt explained that Charlie’s drawing was very similar.


“Charlie wants to come out on the outside of the right of way and put a new tile in, go up and underneath the proposed siding with concrete which I don’t see a problem with. It is better to get that tile outside of the railroad right of way,” Surveyor Sterrett explained.


“It is rerouting a portion of the Holcomb Tile, is that what it amounts to?” Attorney Loy asked.


“Yes,” Charlie Van Voorst confirmed.


“Do we have to have a hearing for that?” Chairman Schmierer asked.


“If they are in they are staying in the right of way of the original tile…,” Surveyor Sterrett stated.


“If it is within the 75 foot right of way, I don’t see why any one would complain,” Attorney Loy stated.


Board Member Heimlich continued, “There aren’t any assessments on it, VeraSun is paying for it to be moved.”


Chairman Schmierer entertained a motion to approve the moving of the Holcomb Tile at VeraSun’s expense. Board Member Heimlich made the motion. Board Member Heimlich seconded the motion. Motion carried.


Board Member Heimlich wanted to discuss the Town of Reynolds and asked about what work they were planning to do on the Holcomb Tile. Charlie Van Voorst explained, “On the corner of Main Street and 25 North we are actually going to be running a new water and sewage line over to VeraSun and we’ll be going through that corner. It is my understanding that part of drainage problem in that area could be due to this issue. So, we would like permission, which I probably need to come back for that, in order to dig across that tile and dig down to see if there is a problem there. If there isn’t a problem we won’t do anything, but if there is a problem we would repair that tile at the town’s expense when we do go across that tile.


“There are a lot of utilities in that area,” Surveyor Sterrett stated.


“I know that, but we need to repair some water lines in that area also,” Charlie Van Voorst replied.


“I don’t know if we can do that at this meeting or if I need to come back and have a different meeting for the town. We are planning to do that work in the spring. We think that might be our drainage problem in that area,” Charlie Van Voorst continued.


“I know when Surveyor Sterrett dug that up at the railroad he didn’t find anything,” Board Member Heimlich stated.


Surveyor Sterrett added, “Charlie told me, who had heard from Denny Coffin, that there is another tile running up through there that is a 14 inch that goes up through there and ties back into the Holcomb Tile. So, we have a 14 going into a 15 and that isn’t…”


“Denny (Coffin) said that is the one that takes water when his yard fills up with water and runs over, that is the one that water. The new plastic doesn’t take water as well,” Charlie Van Voorst explained.


“It could be beating peak to get to that one,” Surveyor Sterrett stated.


“I am not saying that there is not a problem there, because there was a suck hole there at one time,” Surveyor Sterrett explained.


“I think when we dig down to that T, we’ll see what’s in there,” Charlie Van Voorst. That is another question that I have, “Would the county be able to dig down to make sure where that is located prior to us going in and replacing it?” Charlie Van Voorst asked.


“Would the county highway do that?” Surveyor Sterrett asked. He continued, “It is in the right of way.”


“If it is in their right of way they could,” Chairman Schmierer added.


“We would just like to know where it is located and not just dig holes to find where it is,” Charlie Van Voorst stated.


“If there are other utilities you are going to have to have those located,” Board Member Heimlich stated.


“We already have and there are not any at that location. We have already done all of that. I was talking to Surveyor Sterrett about that. We are not exactly sure where that tile lays,” Charlie Van Voorst replied.


“Don’t Denny Coffin’s plans show it coming across at a 45? Our plans (Surveyor’s Plans) show it coming up to a T,” Surveyor Sterrett explained.


Charlie Van Voorst shared that Denny Coffin said that he knows exactly where it is at, but Charlie didn’t know if he does for sure or not, but it would make it easier if we knew.


Charlie Van Voorst continued, “The surveyor says that it goes right along the CSX railroad, but Denny Coffin says that it is out in the field on the east side of the fence, so we aren’t sure exactly where it’s at.”

“We dug right close to the fence and it was going northwest. So, I just drew this assuming that it came up and tied into the one that comes straight south,” Surveyor Sterrett explained.


Board Member Burton asked, “Can you still locate your holes?”


“Yes,” Surveyor Sterrett replied.


“So, there is your reference. Surveyor Sterrett can show you a north hole and a south hole as far as having someone go out and locate it. If you can still locate those holes,” Board Member Burton stated.


“I don’t think he can,” Charlie Van Voorst stated.


“Yeah, I know where they are at,” Surveyor Sterrett replied.


“I assume that you will be getting permission from CSX to put the siding in?” Surveyor Sterrett asked.


“Yes, we already have that. I didn’t bring the letter, but I probably should have,” Charlie Van Voorst stated.


The next item on the agenda is discussion of the Drainage Review for VeraSun.


Surveyor Sterrett explained, “VeraSun originally paid $2,000 drainage review fee which was not enough to cover the invoices from CTE for their project. They paid an additional $2,035 and that has also been used up. We have just received another invoice from CTE of $1,580.00. There is only $280 remaining in their drainage review fund. Our last bill was for 12 hours at $155 per hour. This was when there was silt going into the ditch and I asked Todd to come up and take a look at it.”


Chairman Schmierer commented, “I would say that we just need to send a bill to VeraSun.”


“This is a two year project… Do we just keep doing this? Surveyor Sterrett asked.


“You just need to have the bill sent to Reynolds,” Charlie Van Voorst stated.


Attorney Loy added, “You might send a short cover letter explaining what was done.”


The next item to discuss is a building permit that was received in our office for Bernard Altman in Burnettsville. Surveyor Sterrett explained, “Mr. Altman wants to build a carport on the ditch bank of the M. K. Reiff. His plan shows that he will be 12 foot from the ditch. I talked to the building department and they are requiring that he put 6 inch holes with concrete to anchor it down at each corner and one in the middle I assume. It is kind of like a temporary…”


“It is like fence that can be unbolted and moved,” Board Member Burton stated.


“On the other side of the ditch is clear, except for where we get up close to the lift station, where there is fence that is located close to the bank,” Surveyor Sterrett added.


“Who’s lift station?” Attorney Loy asked.


“I assume it is the town of Burnettsville,” Surveyor Sterrett replied.


“If they call it temporary and movable versus permanent…,” Board Member Burton stated.


“It looks to me like they could unbolt it and move it,” Surveyor Sterrett stated.


“Is the question whether a Consent to Encroach is necessary or not?” Attorney Loy asked.


“Yes, I just wanted to bring it to the board’s attention. The building permit came through our office and I didn’t want to go ahead approve it without the board’s approval,” Surveyor Sterrett explained.


“In the past, we have sent letters clarifying that there is a 75 foot right of way and anything you put in can be subject to removal,” Attorney Loy stated.


“A letter saying such, in order to put him on notice would be acceptable then?” Surveyor Sterrett asked.


“Yes,” Attorney Loy replied.


The last item for discussion is Joe Dunbar. He has contacted our office regarding his crossing over Myers Ditch.


Surveyor Sterrett explained, “Mr. Dunbar got Don Ward to look at it. Don said that there was over one square mile of drainage upstream, but it’s only like 1.2 square miles, so therefore he needs a DNR permit unless we do it as a maintenance project. So, after that, things stopped. Don did not do any sizing on it because of DNR. Now Don has the file and is looking at it. Waugh owns on the other side of the ditch, but Brettnacher has access to an 8 ½ foot tank car, so Don is checking that to see if it will work. There is a 12 foot culvert under the Interstate, however, I looked at the plans and it said bury two foot below legal grade, so essentially, it’s a 10 foot culvert.”


“Which way does the water run?” Board Member Heimlich asked.


“It runs toward the interstate,” Surveyor Sterrett replied.


“Is there any structures upstream?” Board Member Burton asked.


“No, there is under 700 West, but that is where the ditch starts,” Surveyor Sterrett explained.


“So, Don Ward is working on it for him?” Chairman Schmierer asked.


“Yes, but we are going to have to do it as a maintenance project and then Mr. Dunbar will pay for it—if it is alright with the board,” Surveyor Sterrett stated.


“That is fine as long as Mr. Dunbar understand that,” Chairman Schmierer added.


“We’ll have to have the engineer size the pipe,” Board Member Heimlich stated.


“I know,” Surveyor Sterrett replied.


Chairman Schmierer asked if there was anything further for the Drainage Board.


Chairman Schmierer then adjourned the meeting.