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The White County Area Plan Commission met Tuesday, October 9, 2001, at 7:30 p.m. in the Commissioner’s Meeting Room, Second Floor, County Building, Monticello, Indiana.

Members attending were: Jay Clawson, Gary Barbour, David Rosenbarger, David Scott, Don Ward, Scott Kyburz, Gregory Bossaer and Rick Raderstorf. Also attending were Attorney Altman and Director Weaver.

Visitors Attending were: Herb Parrish, Kevin & Rosanna Reynolds, Charles R. Mellon, Kay Heisner, Charlie & Tina Frybort, Ralph S. McClurg, Doug & Christine Shaffer, Robert & Phyllis Conklin, Bill VanMeter, Ola Verleen Conklin, Richard & Margaret Conklin, Rick Allen, Neil Heisner and Michael Finnegan.

The meeting was called to order by Vice President Jay Clawson and roll call was taken.

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#770 Kevin Lee & Rosanna Marie Reynolds; Requesting to rezone from A-1 to B-2 on 1.50 Acres. The property is located in Union Township at 319 S. 300 E.

Vice President Clawson asked, Reynolds’ would you like to speak on behalf of your request?

Kevin Reynolds stated, I really don’t know what to say. I just lost my job and I didn’t have anything else to do. I applied for work in other places and couldn’t get a job and I was faced with the fact that I have to support my family so thus, I had all of the tools and everything so I started working on people’s cars and that’s how it got started. That’s how I support my family now but other than that I don’t know what to say.

Director Weaver stated, I would like to mention to the Board, if you look at your analysis on your staff report, the property does meet the minimum size requirement for a B-2 zoning. The business was put in and operating without properly rezoning the property. He is requesting to rezone after receiving a letter from the office, he has also placed a sign on the property for the business. We also this morning received a letter from some of the adjacent property owners and you have a copy of this letter, Attorney Altman, the original is in the file.

Attorney Altman asked, so that the business and the sign are non-compliance, it violates the Ordinance right now?

Director Weaver stated, yes.

Attorney Altman stated, the use.

Vice President Clawson asked, where is that letter at?

Attorney Altman asked, right here, under the pictures. Have you seen this?

The Board stated, no…

Director Weaver stated, we just received it.

Attorney Altman stated, I would like for you to see that, we have an exhibit here, does everyone else know what the exhibit is? The Board members have a copy. Does anyone want to see a copy, we will get you a copy. We will incorporate this letter in the record as objectors Exhibit A.

Vice President Clawson asked, does anyone have any questions for the applicant?

Herb Parrish asked, is he going to put a garage or salvage yard or what out here?

Attorney Altman asked, where do you live in relation…

Herb Parrish stated, I just bought a place out there, I’m going to move out there.

Vice President Clawson stated, that would be Bowsher’s property.

Attorney Altman stated, Bowsher’s property okay, near this property. It amounts to it’s whatever, if it gets rezoned it’s what can fit in there okay. As to what he’s going to do, it isn’t controlling this, what the Ordinance will allow him to do and the Ordinance in a B-2 would allow him to put what kind of a building up there Director Weaver, have you looked at that?

Director Weaver stated, no, I really have not.

Attorney Altman stated, but, it would at very least, would allow him to put up the type of business that he’s using right now the repair, B-2 has a very extensive list of business that would be allowed to be in there one of which, is an automotive repair. It’s, you about need to read and look at the Ordinance to get their answer but what type of business would you be talking about?

Herb Parrish stated, well, the lot is back of his house is full of used cars…

Director Weaver stated, the B-2 zoning does not allow for auto salvage yard which, possibly that could be what that might be considered would not allow that.

Herb Parrish asked, what about the cars now?

Director Weaver stated, it would allow for a body shop, for repairs, auto painting, that type of thing.

Vice President Clawson asked, they could store quite a few of cars there right? The way that you have interpreted it through the thing, you’re letting people have up to 10 cars on the lot?

Director Weaver stated, the Ordinance does not specify that.

Attorney Altman stated, a junkyard would be an I-2 and that takes a special exception.

Herb Parrish stated, does all of these cars have licenses?

Kevin Reynolds stated, most of them aren’t even mine, I’m there, most of them are people that I have worked on their cars and they are sitting there waiting to be picked up. I’m in the process of taking the titles of some of them so I can sell them off or junk them or what ever because I’m tired of waiting on people picking up their cars but most of them are not even mine sitting there.

Herb Parrish stated, I don’t know how you make a living, if they didn’t pay you.

Kevin Reynolds stated, because, I have plenty of other customers that do pay me. I just have a few that just never come and pick them up and that’s the ones that are sitting there.

Herb Parrish asked, what’s the time limit, that they can stay there?

Kevin Reynolds stated, after 5 days I start charging 5 dollars a day, storage.

Attorney Altman stated, if he were to get a B-2, we would not be able to regulate that unless it becomes a junkyard. If he were repairing cars and had them there that would part of the business assuming that it’s not a junkyard and sometimes that’s a real thin line too.

Herb Parrish asked, who polices that, if you allow him to have his shop there? Who polices whether the cars are sitting there or just scrap for parts or if they belong to the customer?

Attorney Altman stated, it would probably be our department and the environmental officer would be on that. As you have seen in the paper, they’re working on the nuisance Ordinance that would, I’m sure that’s part of what the Commissioners are trying to aim at, to eliminate some of that type of problems I guess is the best way that I can say it.

Vice President Clawson asked, is there anyone else that has a question for the applicant or any other opposition? Are we ready to vote on this?

Attorney Altman stated, I think that we’re ready to vote.

Vice President Clawson asked, are we ready to vote on this?

With no further discussion the Board voted.

The results of the vote were as follows: 2 affirmative and 6 negative. This will be presented to County Commissioners for their action.

Attorney Altman stated, it will be forwarded to the County Commissioners for their final determination with no recommendation. That will be next Monday morning right?

Director Weaver stated, yes.

Attorney Altman stated, 8:30 in the morning, right here and like I say, they have the final say on this so if you’re interested you had better be here is the best thing that I can suggest but, the vote was 6 no, 2 yes. Thank you.

Kevin Reynolds stated, thank you.

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#771 Douglas E. & Christine M. Shaffer; Requesting to rezone from A-1 to R-2 on lot #5 and the East ½ of lot #6 in Hill Top Subdivision. The property is located East of Monticello at 861 E. Hilltop Court.

Attorney Altman stated, before I get to far, I have the ballots and they have the applicants name as Reynolds but, they have the correct name on there, I think, let's make sure. They have the last applicant’s name on there.

Vice President Clawson asked, on both of them?

Attorney Altman stated, on all of them. Reynolds was on there.

Vice President Clawson asked, so they put Reynolds on both of them?

Attorney Altman stated, yes, I think that they did.

Vice President Clawson asked, do we need to scratch that out and put Shaffer?

Attorney Altman stated, yes, I think that would be the simplest, I just wanted to call it to everyone’s attention you need to put the correct name in there so that we can proceed.

Vice President Clawson asked, do any of the Commissioners have any questions about this?

Director Weaver stated, again, I will point out, the analysis on this property. The property does meet the minimum size requirement for an R-2 zoning. It is in a residential subdivision that was brought into the Area Plan with an A-1 zoning instead of a residential zoning. What they are trying to do is, they have had a fire in their, at their home, and they’re trying to rebuild the home. They no longer meet the setback requirements because the grandfather clause has been broken. Therefore instead of applying for a variance they are requesting to rezone so that they have more appropriate setback requirements for the property.

Attorney Altman asked, so that this will be effectively both lots will be married together with this use right?

David Rosenbarger asked, they are only asking for ½ of lot #6, what is the other half. Whose is it?

Christine Shaffer stated, we only own half…

Director Weaver stated, they only own half of the lot.

David Rosenbarger stated, oh, okay.

Vice President Clawson asked, I know that there are several people out there that own horses and things like that. Will this effect them if they ever want to sell their property? The people that own the horses…

Director Weaver stated, where the horses are located, it is already zoned R-2.

Vice President Clawson stated, there is another place back at the end of the road that has a horse barn.

Director Weaver stated, they’ve rezoned their property to have their horses. The one at the bottom of the hill, is that where you’re talking?

Vice President Clawson stated, no at the end of the road, back off of their they use to have one, Larry Shell use to own that property a long time ago, the guy doesn’t have there now…

Director Weaver stated, the way that the Ordinance is written it doesn’t distinguish right now where horses can be kept at, so no, it would not…

Vice President Clawson stated, okay, I just didn’t want…

Director Weaver stated, so no, it would not...

Vice President Clawson stated, if they ever sold the property and the owners wanted to move in, that they would be, I just wanted that to be clarified. Anyone in the audience have any objections or any questions for the Shaffer’s? I think that we should vote then, if we’re ready.

With no further discussion the Board voted.

The results of the vote were as follows: 8 affirmative and 0 negative. This will be presented to County Commissioners for their action.

Attorney Altman stated, on all ballots the applicant’s name has been changed to Shaffer and so therefore county the results of the balloting on #771, it will be forwarded to the County Commissioners with a favorable recommendation. That will be next Monday morning again, at 8:30 right here and they have the final say so I always tell people to be there or suggest it.

Doug Shaffer asked, I do have one question if I may, will there be any issues if I would like to start demolition of the home this week?

Attorney Altman stated, you don’t have a final answer now that’s all that I can tell you.

Doug Shaffer asked, so I have to wait for the final answer on Monday.

Vice President Clawson stated, history has proven that the Commissioners usually go along with us, when it’s a unanimous vote but, not always.

Attorney Altman stated, if you get a demolition permit you probably need to see Mr. Anderson about that so, you might quite frankly, spend your time now making sure that you get your application and all ready but…

Director Weaver stated, Mr. Anderson does not at this time issue demolition permits. The only thing that you need to do is notify the Assessor’s Office before you start demolition. That may be coming in the future but at this time he does not do that.

Doug Shaffer stated, thank you.

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#262 Ralph McClurg; Requesting secondary approval of a 2 lot subdivision to be known as Zachary Heights Subdivision on 6.835 Acres. The property is located in Prairie Township, on the South side of C.R. 800 S. and the East side of C.R. 125 E. Tabled from September 10, 2001.

Vice President Clawson asked, are you here to represent this?

Ralph McClurg was present to represent this request.

Director Weaver stated, Mr. McClurg received primary approval in August, we have been waiting on his drainage approval, which we did receive in order to go for the secondary approval.

Attorney Altman asked, do they have a copy of this?

Director Weaver stated, no, I don’t believe so.

Attorney Altman asked, let me read then into the record from the Office of the White County Surveyor, the letter was read into the record. You understand that if it’s approved it would be approved subject to you build on lot #2 would have to go to the Surveyor’s Office about whether this requirement has been triggered in?

Ralph McClurg stated, yes, sir.

Attorney Altman stated, so that certainly should be put on your plat as a condition of approval if the Board does in fact approve your plat.

Vice President Clawson asked, were there any other conditions?

Director Weaver stated, no…

Vice President Clawson asked, on primary?

Director Weaver stated, no.

Vice President Clawson asked, is there anyone else that has any questions or any opposition on this subdivision?

Attorney Altman asked, for the newer members here, remember then on a subdivision, both secondary and primary if it meets the requirements of the Ordinance and I’m going to ask the Director directly we must approve it. If we don’t approve it we must give the applicants, essentially how it doesn’t comply and then they have the opportunity to comply and then we must approve it. Does this meet all of the standards of the Subdivision Control Ordinance?

Director Weaver stated, to best of my knowledge, yes.

Attorney Altman asked, so it’s ready for secondary approval?

Vice President Clawson stated, yes.

Director Weaver stated, yes, it is.

Vice President Clawson asked, so we’re ready for a vote?

Attorney Altman stated, yes we are and obviously, it would be subject to the condition that lot #2 must before it gets a building permit you would have to get approval through the Surveyor’s Office and that would meet their deal on the plat.

Ralph McClurg stated, okay.

With no further discussion the Board voted.

The Secondary Approval request for a subdivision to be known as Zachary Heights Subdivision located in Prairie Township, was approved by a vote of 7 to 1, based on a findings of fact that the Standards of the Subdivision Control Ordinance have been met, primary approval has been granted and the Subdivision is in compliance.

Attorney Altman stated, however, the condition is that on lot #2 that it must get Surveyor’s approval before a building permit would be issued.

Ralph McClurg stated, okay.

Attorney Altman asked, do you understand that?

Ralph McClurg stated, yes sir. Now, I don’t have to come back for another meeting right?

Director Weaver stated, right, you don’t have to come back for another meeting but, we have a 10-day waiting period and within that 10 days you can come in and sign the plat. I don’t have the Mylar in my office today so if you will stop back in and sign that.

Ralph McClurg stated, all right, thank you.

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#264 Ora Verleen Conklin & Robert Conklin Jr.; Requesting secondary approval of a 2 lot subdivision to be known as Conklin Subdivision #2 on 1.024 acres. The property is located in the Town of Burnettsville at 827 S. West Street. Tabled from September 10, 2001.

Vice President Clawson asked, are you representing this?

Robert Conklin was representing the request.

Vice President Clawson asked, if I’m correct, they were going to have a letter, and they have a letter drafted giving the road easement…

Director Weaver stated, they are with your pictures, there are actually 2 agreements and there is one for each lot.

Vice President Clawson asked, and you have read these Attorney Altman?

Attorney Altman stated, yes.

Vice President Clawson asked, and you feel that they are legal?

Attorney Altman stated, yes, I think that Mr. Guy properly drafted them and would allow for the two 15’, be effectively married to each other and be a 30’ road there.

Vice President Clawson stated, to the back lots.

Attorney Altman stated, to the back lots, yes.

Vice President Clawson asked, those were the only other problems that we had with this at the last meeting…

Director Weaver stated, yes.

Vice President Clawson asked, that we needed for secondary approval. Is there anyone here in opposition to this? If not, I think that we can go ahead and vote on this.

Attorney Altman stated, right, it’s ready for approval and there are no improvements so it would be totally ready for secondary, a bond won’t be needed.

With no further discussion the Board voted.

The Secondary Approval request for a subdivision to be known as Conklin Subdivision #2 located in Town of Burnettsville, was approved by a vote of 8 to 0, based on a findings of fact that the Standards of the Subdivision Control Ordinance have been met, primary approval has been granted and the Subdivision is in compliance.

Attorney Altman stated, you need to get a hold of Director Weaver and get your plat signed.

Director Weaver stated, again, you have 10 days to do that.

Robert Conklin asked, do we stop up at the office.

Director Weaver stated, yes, I don’t have it in the office yet, I don’t have the mylar so give it a couple of days.

Robert Conklin stated, okay.

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#265 Richard L. & Margaret A. Conklin; Requesting secondary approval of a 2 lot subdivision to be known as Conklin Subdivision #3 on 0.933 of an acre. The property is located in the Town of Burnettsville at 821 S. West Street. Tabled from September 10, 2001.

Vice President Clawson asked, who is representing this request?

Richard Conklin was representing the request.

Vice President Clawson asked, again, the letters were drafted about the easement for the road between the two subdivisions.

Attorney Altman stated, that needs to be recorded of course and that’s what they will do.

Vice President Clawson asked, is there anyone in opposition? All of the subdivision requirements have been met on this?

Director Weaver stated, yes.

Vice President Clawson stated, we’re ready for a vote then.

With no further discussion the Board voted.

The Secondary Approval request for a subdivision to be known as Conklin Subdivision #3 located in Town of Burnettsville, was approved by a vote of 8 to 0, based on a findings of fact that the Standards of the Subdivision Control Ordinance have been met, primary approval has been granted and the Subdivision is in compliance.

Attorney Altman stated, you need to stop in and take care of that with Director Weaver.

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#266 Michael D. & Brenda J. Finnegan; Requesting primary approval of a 10 lot subdivision to be known as West Bedford Estates on 6.49 acres. The property is located in Monon Township on the West side of C.R. 300 E., just South of Monon Road. Tabled from September 10, 2001.

Vice President Clawson asked, and you’re representing?

Michael Finnegan was present to represent this request.

Vice President Clawson asked, do the Commissioners have any questions on this? Does anyone in the audience have any questions or objections about this subdivision?

Attorney Altman asked, is this subdivision going to be on the sewer system?

Michael Finnegan stated, yes.

Attorney Altman asked, when will that be available, the sewage system be available to install?

Michael Finnegan stated, probably 2 months after I get everything approved.

Attorney Altman asked, so it is ready to go by? As I understand it’s right in that area.

Michael Finnegan stated, it’s right at the South end of the property.

Attorney Altman asked, so all of this will be on the sewage system and not a septic system.

Michael Finnegan stated, right.

Attorney Altman asked, just the wells will be individual?

Michael Finnegan stated, right.

Attorney Altman asked, is that right?

Michael Finnegan stated, yes.

Attorney Altman stated, okay, they have two 30’ access back there on two lots other wise it’s a string subdivision.

Director Weaver stated, Mr. Finnegan, I had recommended that you contact the SFLECC, have you done that?

Michael Finnegan stated, yes, yes, I did.

Director Weaver stated, they had some concerns.

Michael Finnegan stated, his concerns were, he wanted to know if I knew about that drudging project that’s in the works, is what he wanted me to be aware of.

Attorney Altman stated, tell us about the drudging.

Michael Finnegan stated, they are going to put a sediment trap up in there, they are not going to drudge that bay out and make it deeper, they are just going to put sediment traps in there to catch silt so that it doesn’t get in the lake.

Director Weaver stated, I believe from what Mr. Roach had explained to me, is their concern was if he was going to try to sell these as if they had lake access. I think that was their concern.

Vice President Clawson stated, these don’t have lake access do they? The water is not navigable up there.

Director Weaver stated, not for boating purposes.

Michael Finnegan stated, if you have a small john boat yes, if you have a big speedboat, no.

Attorney Altman asked, pretty shallow, I bet.

Michael Finnegan stated, yes.

Vice President Clawson stated, yes.

Attorney Altman stated, except in the actual stream area.

Michael Finnegan stated, right.

Attorney Altman stated, tell us about the tract that is to the South there, that little .168…

Michael Finnegan stated, I’m just going to keep that for access for my own use, just access to the water there.

Attorney Altman asked, so is that part of the subdivision?

Michael Finnegan stated, no, that’s listed separate on there I believe.

Attorney Altman stated, yes, it’s listed separately but I wasn’t sure if it was part of the subdivision.

Michael Finnegan stated, no, just the 10 lots.

Attorney Altman stated, I guess that the Board needs to look very carefully at the 30’ off of the roads that are on a couple of the lots and access to like lot #8 and lot #1. Also, the 30’ access like on lot #9 access to the water, to a 30’ survey on a tract of ground. I think that those, well no, lot #2 has just about the same thing, it has 30.91 and those would be the things that I see with this plat.

Director Weaver stated, I have a question with tract #1 because, of the information that was submitted to us from Mr. Milligan, states that tract #1 is only to be used only for access to the Monon Bay. It does not stipulate that it is not for all of the owners in the subdivision.

Michael Finnegan stated, no, it’s not for all of the owners in the subdivision.

Director Weaver stated, okay, should that be clarified?

Attorney Altman stated, tell me what you mean…

Director Weaver asked, it’s for your own private use right?

Michael Finnegan stated, right, that lot will not be sold.

Attorney Altman stated, okay that’s tract…

Vice President Clawson stated, tract #1…

Attorney Altman asked, it is not, I guess that it doesn’t really even say tract #1 on the plat, does it?

Vice President Clawson stated, yes, tract #1.

Attorney Altman stated, oh yes, it is, I see that it’s tract #1 down here I see the one there that is a little bit obscured by that property line there.

Vice President Clawson stated, one of the things that worries me about this type of density with some of these lots, the way that they are laid out, is how with County Road 300 East, being a main arterial road and very high traffic. I hate to see people have 9 more driveways right there on this people backing out, they are coming right off of a curve.

Attorney Altman stated, and an intersection.

Vice President Clawson stated, yes, there is an intersection right up there, there is, there’s a swale and there where they come up that hill, there has to be some kind of a safe way, safety involved for people driving plus the people that live there pulling in and out. I know that people should be slowing down at that point but that’s an awful lot of driveways in a short period of time for people backing in and out. If they could restrict it to at least, the area where they can pull out of their driveways and not backing out on to the road I don’t know how we can do that.

Attorney Altman stated, what you might do is suggest that they, this matter be tabled and see if they can, they would have to work a plat differently than this and see if they can’t maybe centralize access for more of the lots. So that there are not 9 of them and that’s really what you’re saying is it would take a plat change to do that…

Vice President Clawson stated, yes…

Attorney Altman stated, and that’s really what you’re saying. If you’re going to bring lot, let me look at something that I just see and you folks may see a little bit differently than that but, lot #7, #8 and #9 if that was set up. So that access for lot #7 and #9 were out of this 30’ or what have you rather than, it wouldn’t take such a big change Jay, as an example…

Vice President Clawson stated, yes…

Attorney Altman stated, but you would only have one access there rather than 3.

Vice President Clawson stated, right.

Don Ward stated, and you have 10 on that too…

Attorney Altman stated, yes, you’re right, you put 10 in there and pretty easy. So that I guess, rather than maybe where it’s a deal, it’s cutting down lots. We sure could do it on lot #1 and lot #2 very easy the same thing and if you redesign that, and I don’t really, I’m not trying to get rid of your density. I understand what density means is dollars but, what we’re saying is, we have to look at it from a safety point of view and that’s really what you’re saying, right Jay?

Vice President Clawson stated, exactly, if you take and have use 2, 3 or 4 lots at a time to use an access road instead of everyone having their main access out on the County Road 300, it would work much better. What we’re going to do is, if we keep frontage loading all of our main arterial roads in the county. It’s going to get to the point if you’re trying to make it to work in Monon from Monticello or Lafayette from that area it’s going to just snarl up traffic in the next 20 or 30 years. That’s the way that I see it in planning, that’s what we’re trying to do here is be the best of planning for it.

David Rosenbarger asked, when you permit do you, what about the 100-year flood in the ditch…

Director Weaver stated, there is a statement here from Mr. Milligan that none of this area is in a flood area because, I was concerned about that myself. The subdivision is not in a flood hazard area.

David Rosenbarger stated, well, that’s not our area anyway…

Director Weaver stated, yes it is…

Attorney Altman stated, well, that’s something to look at and we certainly look at that when we have water and especially this much water near there.

Don Ward stated, when you bring those lots out like you’re bring 7, 8, 9, and 10 out on this drive, that drive really isn’t big enough.

Attorney Altman stated, no, they could add a little bit to that and say, take 5’ off of each side and put a little bit of a cul-de-sac in there and it would work real nice, real nice and minimize that. Do you understand what we’re, we’re trying to give you some direction.

Michael Finnegan stated, right.

Attorney Altman stated, what we would like to have…

Michael Finnegan stated, yes.

Attorney Altman stated, see, unlike the rezonings, subdivision we approve and it doesn’t go to anyone else and that’s why we’re looking at these and trying to share these thoughts with you so that when you bring it back, we’re ready to approve it okay?

Michael Finnegan stated, yes.

Attorney Altman asked, any other suggestions?

Don Ward stated, that common drive between lots #3 and #4 and #5 and #6…

David Rosenbarger stated, well, 1, 2 and 3 could all go together, come in between 1, 2 and 3…

Attorney Altman stated, sure you could.

Don Ward stated, that’s not going to work to well because they would have to come in front of the lot to get to #1. I think that it’s better to leave 1 and 2 together.

Attorney Altman stated, if you could put those together more, we would be much more likely to on that and you will probably have more expensive lots and make more money. Greg, do you have any more thoughts about it?

Greg Bossaer stated, no I agree, every lot having an access.

Attorney Altman stated, you just can’t have it and with a little bit more especially with the sewage system there but, that makes it a lot easier to have this kind of density and still have the other, the traffic density controlled.

Vice President Clawson stated, because, if everyone is making their own road cut all of the way down here with that being a high pressured system someone gets a bucket down in that line and cuts that, that’s one of the things that you have to worry about. If you lay out the roads back there before new construction is already done for the ingress and egress it would be much better and I think a much safer subdivision over the years to come.

Attorney Altman stated, hat’s the main thing that we’re looking at.

Vice President Clawson stated, yes.

Attorney Altman asked, you understand could you have this modified and back next meeting? That will be when Director Weaver?

Michael Finnegan asked, can you kind of give me a copy of that the way that you sketched out what you’re thinking for sure.

Attorney Altman stated, sure.

Director Weaver stated, the next meeting is November the 13th.

Attorney Altman stated, before we tell him to come back…

Director Weaver stated, well, it’s going to depend on when I get it as to whether we’re going to…

Attorney Altman stated, I understand but obviously but, so that he knows when, so you’ll need…

Director Weaver stated, yes, it’s on a Tuesday again.

Attorney Altman stated, that’s when the meeting would be and you need to get that almost 2 weeks ahead of time minimum…

Director Weaver stated, by our cut off date would be the best time which is the 22nd of this month I believe, if you call the office tomorrow I can tell you that for sure.

Attorney Altman I think that this matter is tabled pending coming back with a plat.

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#267 Kay Heisner; Requesting primary approval of a 8 lot subdivision to be known as Echo Trail Estates on 8.905 Acres. The property is located in Liberty Township on the Southwest corner of Kiger Drive and C.R. 850 N.

Vice President Clawson asked, who is representing his?

Neil Heisner stated, I’m representing Kay Heisner and Tina Frybort. As you have said the proposed subdivision in Liberty Township consist of 8 plus acres, it’s rectangular shape and a vacant field for a number of years now. Each of these 8 proposed lots would front on a county road so there wouldn’t be no additional roads necessary in his subdivision. Right now the property adjoins a home o the South a new home and to the West and the North is farm property and to the East is a county road across from which is a nice subdivision of about 12 homes. There are utilities there now, electrical, telephone and TV cable and it’s presently zoned as A-1 and as I said we’re proposing to put 8 lots in there. The owners have contacted the adjoining property owners and discussed with them what the plans were and they have reviewed it with about 7 of the families. Also, the owners have contacted Moss Well Drilling and I believe that you gentlemen have a copy of that. That’s not the, right now I’m sorry, we contacted Moss Well Drilling to verify that there was adequate water in the area and they told us that the Buffalo area has one of the largest oculars in Indiana. That the 8 acres could support 100 homes if you could fit them on there that’s how much water there is there.

Vice President Clawson asked, has that letter been put into the recorded?

Neil Heisner stated, that letter has not been, no.

Vice President Clawson asked, could you submit that to, can we see that letter?

Neil Heisner asked, I don’t have that letter on me with me here. I don’t believe that we have that letter, do we?

Kay Heisner stated, we just talked to them o the phone. If you want a letter, we can get it.

Neil Heisner stated, we can get one if you need it.

Vice President Clawson stated, I would like to see that letter and have it put on because the last time there was something in your area brought up was a lot of the residential people were worried about their water and I would like to see something. Since you’re stating that on record, I would like to see that.

Attorney Altman stated, they weren’t talking about it being unlimited…

Neil Heisner stated, that’s the reason that we made this contact this time.

Vice President Clawson stated, that’s fine.

Attorney Altman stated, we need that, we really do.

Neil Heisner stated, also, a drainage plan has been developed and approved by the White County Drainage Board and I believe that you do have that in your files there, it looks like this.

Director Weaver stated, there is a copy of that in the file.

Neil Heisner stated, it was submitted to the Plan Commission. Then a soil scientist came out and took soil samples from each lot and that report was also submitted to the White County Health Department and you should also have a copy of that in your files there.

Attorney Altman asked, what does the Health Mr. Shookman mean by pressurized distribution requirements on certain sites? I saw that there and I wasn’t sure that I saw any pickup on that with the sewage systems and on your matter that Mr. Milligan prepared on the Echo Trail Subdivision. Why do they need pressure distribution?

Kay Heisner stated, Attorney Altman, he says that you have to put septics on each lot, but Alan Shookman says that you can put a septic tank on every single lot. However, depending on where you put it, you might need a pressurized system which I understand is maybe the above ground system….

Vice President Clawson stated, mound system, they’re talking a mound system where you have to pump it up to the system.

Attorney Altman stated, I see…

Vice President Clawson asked, again, anything that is going close to the lake probably faults within the realm of the sewage, Regional Sewage District and I don’t know what the time table is for Buffalo is on putting the sewers….

Neil Heisner stated, the owners spoke to them also and hey said that within 3 to 5 years it would be coming through this area.

Vice President Clawson stated, right, the only thing that I…

Director Weaver asked, you gave me a map didn’t you?

Kay Heisner stated, yes.

Director Weaver stated, there is a map here in the file it shows that this will be in that area from…

Neil Heisner stated, it looks something like this…

Director Weaver stated, yes.

Vice President Clawson asked, what is the platted width of Kiger Drive that runs through there?

Director Weaver stated, it should show right there on your plat…

Attorney Altman stated, 40’.

Director Weaver stated, yes, that’s it.

Vice President Clawson stated, okay, I was looking for it and never did see it, and they’re leaving an extra 15’ for easement for drainage and utilities?

Director Weaver stated yes…

Vice President Clawson asked, which would give it total of 55’?

Director Weaver stated, yes.

Vice President Clawson stated, so that is more than exceeds what our requirement, one of the requirements for having easement there by the, granting that extra 15’ easement. I was wondering with this sewer going down there, to have make sure that was in place before we subdivide that and Jim did his work on that. Are there any other questions from anyone here in the audience?

Attorney Altman asked, tell us about the detention areas that are on parts of 4 lots here. What is the function of that?

Neil Heisner stated, they are very shallow there is, I don’t’ think that it’s over 3’ it’s more of a swale than a detention pond but it was to catch any run of water.

Attorney Altman asked, is it to hold it or is it to…

Vice President Clawson stated, slow release.

Neil Heisner stated, just retention, no the retention but the detention, right.

Vice President Clawson stated, similar to what Wrede’s did at is that Stone Hollow…

Director Weaver stated, Stone Hollow, yes.

Vice President Clawson stated, Jordan did one back behind his. It’s just to allow for what the, how do you call it, released into the ditches on a graduated basis Rick?

Rick Raderstorf stated, yes…

Vice President Clawson stated, you know how to explain that, you do that everyday.

Rick Raderstorf stated, it’s in the Drainage Ordinance and to get it approved it had to meet it. It has to be, what comes off of there has to be, I think that it’s the 100 year flood or the 10 year flood has to come off of a 2 year rate pre-developed. In other words, it has to be better than what it was, which this was all done and reviewed and approved.

Attorney Altman stated, so that’s part, incorporating the approval from the Drainage Board with this, is really what you’re really saying and that’s what the plans that you and the Commissioners approved in the drainage plan right?

Rick Raderstorf stated, yes.

Neil Heisner stated, it was designed for the 100-year flood scenario.

Vice President Clawson asked, yes, right. Director Weaver, all of the requirements of the Ordinance have been met?

Director Weaver stated, yes, I think so, we are only asking for primary approval because, of the size of the subdivision has to go to a second meeting before it can get secondary approval.

Neil Heisner stated, I had a couple of points that I wanted to mention before you take it under consideration.

Vice President Clawson stated, okay.

Neil Heisner stated, there is, it’s going to be very restrictive as far as the restrictions on the lots. They were actually patterned after the Olde Farm Shores Development which, has as you probably know, is pretty strict and that was developed by David Hickman and I think that you approved that in 1999.

Attorney Altman stated, they do restrict the usage to single family…

Neil Heisner stated, right.

Attorney Altman stated, and probably restricted so that there, is probably, you tried to restrict so that there is no, nothing more than stick built on those right?

Neil Heisner stated, right.

Attorney Altman stated, by the restrictions…

Neil Heisner stated, 1800 square feet is the area restriction and plus there is restrictions as far as auxiliary buildings and pets and everything else. There is one other thing that you have too, I think that you have a copy of the from the Indiana Department of Natural Resources on the, from the storm water specialists and DNR, I think that you have that also…

Director Weaver stated, yes, there is a copy of that also.

Vice President Clawson asked, is it in the record, in he file?

Director Weaver stated, yes.

Attorney Altman asked, is that not circulated, to the Board?

Vice President Clawson stated, no.

Director Weaver stated, evidentially not.

Attorney Altman stated, DNR…

Rick Raderstorf stated, yes, we have that.

Attorney Altman stated, okay.

Director Weaver asked, you do have that?

The Board stated, yes.

Neil Heisner stated, and if you notice on the subdivision plat, there was an additional parcel that has made it as tract A, that was a piece of ground that would give the Homeowners Association access to Lake Shafer. It’s actually, I would be across he road from the subdivision.

Attorney Altman stated, I saw that, I couldn’t see how it was incorporated in your restrictions and actually on your subdivision honestly.

Neil Heisner stated, actually it would be the Home Owners Association that will manage that.

Attorney Altman stated, I think that maybe needs to be flushed out a little bit when you modify your restrictions, you might want to show that a little bit, how that control will be delegated and continued for the future. I don’t think that it has a lot to do with maybe the development here, the subdivision…

Neil Heisner stated, no, it doesn’t really…

Attorney Altman stated, your restrictions…

Neil Heisner stated, right and thank you for your consideration on this matter.

Bill VanMeter asked, I’m the farm owner to the West edge of he project. First of all, I really don’t have any objections o he subdivision going in but I do have a couple of questions. The subdivision goes in, will they be required to hook on to sewage system when it comes?

Attorney Altman stated, yes, it’s part of the requirement and what they set in here so yes, they would Mr. VanMeter.

Bill VanMeter asked, okay, second thing is, they have a tile for the retention pond going out into my property and I just want to make clear that, that retention pond tile that hooks on to the tile that goes through my property, who is going to maintain that tile?

Attorney Altman asked, what is your proposal, for the subdivision to maintain it?

Neil Heisner stated, I believe that is the way…

Kay Heisner stated, it’s a county tile and I thought that I understood, Rick am I right that we can hook to that and it will be maintained by the property owner, by the…

Rick Raderstorf asked, the county tile will be maintained by us, what’s the county tile?

Kay Heisner stated, we’re going to run it into the county tile so…

Attorney Altman stated, it’s the 6” tile that I think you’re talking about Mr. VanMeter…

Bill VanMeter stated, it’s the 6” tile from the county tile to the subdivision…

Neil Heisner asked, it’s going through your property?

Bill VanMeter stated, it’s going through my property.

Attorney Altman stated, that I hear them saying, the association would maintain that.

Kay Heisner stated, now, I didn’t say that yet, I want to know what Rick has to say…

Rick Raderstorf stated, we just take care of the tile drain.

Kay Heisner asked, what about my 6” then?

Rick Raderstorf stated, no, only county tile.

Kay Heisner asked, so we couldn’t get part of this money back?

Rick Raderstorf stated, no, you’re allowed to hook into…

Kay Heisner stated, hook into, okay, all right, so we will have to maintain it.

Bill VanMeter stated, I just want that clear that, that subdivision is going to maintain that tile. If I go out there to cut hay and the tile holes are washed in I don’t feel that I should have stand the expense to fix it.

Director Weaver asked, Rick, does your ordinance clarify that, the developer of the subdivision is responsible for that?

Rick Raderstorf stated, I don’t know if our Ordinance does or not.

Vice President Clawson stated, you might clarify that with Todd the next time and when it comes back for secondary approval. If you could see what our Engineering Company says about that, to make sure that we are right that everyone here knows exactly what is going on, if you would for us please.

Rick Raderstorf asked, what that we’re not responsible…

Vice President Clawson stated, yes, so if you could ask Todd who is actually is responsible from the detention area to the 6” tile, I mean to the regulated drain.

Bill VanMeter stated, it should be the…

Vice President Clawson stated, it should be the Home Owners Association but, they are wanting that clarified and if you could ask Todd to make sure. I don’t know if it can be written on the plat that 6” tile, if it needs to be written on there, that this 6” tile will be maintained by the Home Owners Association…

Attorney Altman stated, I agree with you, I think that needs to be put on there, if it’s going to be maintain, it should be on there.

David Scott asked, will they need some kind of a utility easement to get on his property?

Attorney Altman asked, you mean an easement to go across Mr. VanMeters property.

David Scott asked, if he wants to go out there and dig a tile up, bill…

Vice President Clawson stated, stated, I understand…

Attorney Altman stated, I presume that there was a consent to do that but…

Vice President Clawson stated, stated, but if he changes ownership later down the road and the other guys don’t want them on, there should probably be some sort of agreement…

Attorney Altman stated, usually tile agreements are not recorded and not in writing right Greg and that sort of thing once it’s allowed in the rural areas is essentially an easement.

Vice President Clawson stated, we haven’t been through this in any subdivision that we have done and that’s most of the time when you’re going on someone else’s property for a subdivision you have to have easements so if that’s the standard…

David Scot stated, because the problem is, it may be in the subdivision and not, it may be plugged out here on Bills property but the problem Bill may not have the problems that they may have….

Attorney Altman stated, that’s right.

Vice President Clawson stated, yes, there would be a detention pond…

Attorney Altman stated, farm areas, that’s not a bad idea to get it in writing and lay out your agreement that you’re association will take care of it and get him to consent to it. All in writing, that would not be a bad ideal and I would suggest it, recommend it here for your consideration.

Rick Raderstorf stated, plus, the damage to his property…

Attorney Altman stated, yes, obviously.

Neil Heisner stated, give you time to work on, double check whether it’s a county drain or not…

Attorney Altman stated, I think that you just heard the answer that it isn’t going to be and I bet that’s the answer that you’re going to get.

Bill VanMeter stated, I have one other thing to say and I believe whole heartily that these people have a right to do a subdivision and I’m not arguing that at all but, on the other hand, I have had my place since 1963. I have livestock there and I don’t want to hear 4 or 5 years down the road that oh, we can’t have this live stock smell around anymore.

Attorney Altman stated, our subdivision and our zoning control ordinance indicate that, that is not in our, and our state law indicates that, that is no a valid complaint for your usage, your agricultural usage, and it is not a nuisance complaint…

Vice President Clawson asked, I have a question for you Mr. VanMeter, do you raise confinement hogs or…

Bill VanMeter stated, because, that’s one of the things that is part of our rural subdivisions. If you have a confinement building within what is at a quarter of a mile of this, that is one of the regulations that we have to watch out for when we’re doing a rural subdivision. To make sure that we don’t encroach on your ability to be able to maintain your confinement or to stop you from…

Bill VanMeter stated, that was going to be my next question, should I, in the future, decide to put up a confinement building…

Vice President Clawson stated, it would have to be a quarter of a mile away from this.

Attorney Altman stated, it’s zoned A-1 so it may not have the same restriction but if it was R-2 it would…

Vice President Clawson stated, well, this is a state regulation….

Director Weaver stated, yes.

Attorney Altman stated, not the quarter of a mile…

Vice President Clawson asked, it isn’t?

Attorney Altman stated, no.

Vice President Clawson stated, oh, I thought that’s what you went through with…

Attorney Altman stated, no, that what I meant by the quarter of a mile since this is an A-1 subdivision, I don’t think that it would kick in the quarter of a mile, would it?

Greg Bossaer stated, from the way that the Ordinance reads…

Director Weaver stated, yes, I believe that it does…

Greg Bossaer stated, it’s any residence…

Director Weaver stated, it’s any residence that they do not own…

Greg Bossaer stated, that’s not owned by the owner of the…

Director Weaver stated, by the owner of the ground.

Attorney Altman stated, I stand corrected, I stand corrected.

Bill VanMeter stated, like I said, I have been known to have hogs outside…

Vice President Clawson stated, a few hogs is fine, they’re talking about a high density confinement with a lagoon and that kind of thing. If you’re raising a couple dozen hogs outside, I don’t think that’s a problem.

Greg Bossaer stated, the law would say if you raise up to 599.

Vice President Clawson stated, okay, you know the law more than I do.

Director Weaver stated, the way the Ordinance, I will read this from the Ordinance; must be located a minimum distance of 1320’ from any residence not located on the same tract of land.

Vice President Clawson stated, it wouldn’t regulate you being able to raise hogs but confinement, yes.

Bill VanMeter stated, thank you.

Vice President Clawson stated, I think that we’re ready to vote.

Attorney Altman stated, obviously, we need to set up the tile and get that put in the restrictions when we come up and the tract A and access there put in those restrictions otherwise, has the subdivision control ordinance requirements been met by the subdivision?

Director Weaver stated, yes to the best of my knowledge but we also want a letter from Moss Well Drilling.

Attorney Altman stated, yes, we need the letter there, on that.

Vice President Clawson asked, do we want to approve it with the conditions?

Attorney Altman stated, yes.

Vice President Clawson asked, do you have the conditions written down?

Attorney Altman stated, tract A, the access needs to be set out how that the interplay is there and the other thing would be a something set up that the tile repair. All would be at the expense of the association that is a 6’ tile through the county tile and then the letter from the drillers that says supports his statement about the water table.

With no further discussion the Board voted.

The Primary Approval Request for an 8 lot subdivision to be known as Echo Trail Estates located in Liberty Township, was approved by a vote of 8 to 0, based on a finding of fact that the Standards of the Subdivision Control Ordinance have been met.

Attorney Altman stated, all 8 votes indicated that the primary approval shall be granted upon the recievement of the additional conditions, as required by the Commissioners and that as the restrictions on the repair of the tile. The 8” tile is that of the association of the subdivision that the letter concerning the water table and the other one thing would be set out the restrictions for the use of tract A…

Vice President Clawson asked, and that’s, the Home Owners Association?

Attorney Altman stated, yes.

Vice President Clawson stated, have that clarified.

Attorney Altman asked, is there any questions on that?

Neil Heisner stated, no, we’ll add that on the secondary then.

Attorney Altman stated, you bet.

Neil Heisner asked, the only question that I have is about the secondary, what is the time frame? Can we have that next month?

Director Weaver stated, we would like to have a plat and everything into us by…

Attorney Altman asked, you have to have that by the 23rd, you said?

Director Weaver stated, I believe that it’s the 22nd, I can’t tell you that for sure right off of the top of my head…

Attorney Altman stated, so, you have to have it in and it, it has to have all of this on there and if it does then we will put it on the agenda for next month.

Neil Heisner asked, and if we don’t have it all ready for next month, what is the outside limit as far as the secondary?

Attorney Altman stated, then, you go to December…

Director Weaver stated, then, it would be December.

Kay Heisner asked, can we go to May?

Attorney Altman asked, May, well…

Kay Heisner stated, I want to go to Florida.

Attorney Altman stated, I don’t really see any reason why we can’t put this on the May agenda.

Director Weaver stated, we have done it…

Neil Heisner stated, we will discuss it…

Kay Heisner stated, I would hate to wait until December.

Attorney Altman stated, we need to have this done at a regular meeting so I guess what I’m saying is, we can do that…

Vice President Clawson stated, next meeting if you have it in in time…

Kay Heisner stated, we have Jim Milligan to draw this, I do know that…

Director Weaver stated, decide what you want to do then if you decide to wait until May, I can let them know that at the next meeting.

Neil Heisner asked, what do we have to draw?

Kay Heisner stated, he has to redraw this plat now, the final plat…

Neil Heisner asked, you mean tract A?

Kay Heisner stated, no, the whole thing has to be redrawn and written on there secondary or final plat and all of that stuff…

Director Weaver stated, yes, he has to go a secondary plat yes.

Kay Heisner asked, this drainage thing, that we have to get done the drainage plan, your ordinance says that I have to start that within 6 months and have it down within 1 year from the time that I got that permit. Now that kind of causes a problem with the subdivision if I’m going to wait until spring to do the secondary. Is there such a thing as a variance on that or have you ever…

Rick Raderstorf asked, those are good for a year aren’t they?

Director Weaver asked, your drainage permit?

Rick Raderstorf stated, yes.

Director Weaver stated, I don’t know.

Kay Heisner stated, just for a year is all that they are good for and I will loose my money is my understanding that I put out.

Director Weaver stated, here, I have a copy of it here, is it on the permit do you think Rick?

Rick Raderstorf stated, I doubt that it is on the permit.

Attorney Altman stated, I think that you had better get a hold of him and figure that out because that really isn’t ours.

Kay Heisner stated, that’s what I’m wondering if you two would work together on this at all because, Bob Wrede told me that I thought that he got a variance one one of them that he was doing

Rick Raderstorf stated, yes, that’s very possible, I think that if there…

Vice President Clawson stated, I think they would probably give you, I would think that when you finally get your secondary approval be it in May, I would think that you could get a variance to give you a hear form your secondary approval…

Kay Heisner stated, that’s what I’m thinking…

Vice President Clawson stated, because you cant do any construction on the subdivision until you have your secondary approval anyway.

Rick Raderstorf stated, it states on there that if you have it started or something, they can allow another so long before you have to…

Kay Heisner stated, what Jennifer showed me is it’s very plain 6 months from the date that permit was issued which is about 2 or 3 months ago to get this all ready and…

Attorney Altman stated, then you might want to get Jim on his high horse…

Rick Raderstorf stated, I’m sure that they would grant variance, it shouldn’t be, if that’s the way that it’s stated, it should be until you get final approval, it should be a year from that.

Kay Heisner stated, that’s what I was thinking…

Rick Raderstorf stated, if that’s how it’s stated,

Neil Heisner stated, you’re not going to open up a drain tile when the ground is froze.

****

Attorney Altman asked, are we ready to adjourn?

Vice President Clawson stated, yes.

Director Weaver stated, no.

Vice President Clawson asked, no?

Director Weaver stated, no, business. I just want to know I’m looking for input on changes that people want done to the ordinances so that we can start through the winter month’s work on getting some more changes done. I know that there are some that are needed, so I’m trying to get some kind of input now so that we can get started through the winter on these and get these ready. I know on subdivisions we’re running in to a problem and the City, Jay should know this one very well having heir improvements in prior to the sale or permit being issued on lots. We’re running into some problems where their improvements are not in. They’re going ahead, selling the lots, and trying to make the purchaser put the improvements in from what I understand. So I think that maybe we need to revise our ordinance, our Subdivision Ordinance o accommodate that and make it very specific that those have to be in prior to the sale of the ground. Anything else that comes to mind that we need to do some work on this winter?

Vice President Clawson asked, like this subdivision here, where we’re going with a safety aspect on roads, ingress and egress off of major thoroughfares. Do we need to put something in there to state that we need access roads or better use of multiple like what we’re asking this guy to do is use access for multiple lots instead of each lot having ingress and egress on this road. I mean, here’s really nothing in there, we’re doing it on a safety aspect but is there anything in our ordinance that we can put in there to better state that better that we want that done?

Attorney Altman stated, I think that I know some counties limit the number of ingress and egress areas in a quarter of a mile…

Vice President Clawson stated, right per…

Attorney Altman stated, and I think that would be a pretty appropriate way to regulate this.

David Rosenbarger asked, couldn’t you put it as a recommendation?

Attorney Altman stated, you had better put some numbers to it if you want some teeth in there, you know recommendations are wonderful but they, the guy you really want to control it or it runs right over you and I’m not telling you how many per quarter mile.

Rick Raderstorf stated, it would have to bring it down to the road classification too…

Attorney Altman stated, yes, I agree on that, yes.

Vice President Clawson stated, see where you’re in a road, like the next subdivision that came up and that area is not a high traffic road, Kiger is not going to go any farther. So when it, on farther down the line it’s not going to get any longer so, it’s not going to be picking up any more traffic than it already has. These kinds of things, you not going to run into very much trouble having everyone in an access road on but, once you get up to say like State Highways or Range line, there is as much traffic on 300 as there is on State Road 16. I would even say State Road 43…

Attorney Altman stated, some parts of the day.

Vice President Clawson stated, yes but I know that there is more traffic on that than State Road 16 and Maybe State Road 39 going North out of the county and places like that, certain roads like that.

Attorney Altman stated, and I think that quite frankly we should pick and choose those…

Vice President Clawson stated, and with the thinking that they had at the fairgrounds, the planning, a lot of people stated that it’s something that we need to protect is our access to around the county, not to plug that up. We have a tremendous amount of people that work in Lafayette or work out of towns and if you clog that up to where we can’t move a lot of cars fast by allowing these kids of subdivision then it loses a lot of the attractiveness that the people want. You use this as a secondary community, live on the lake and work in Lafayette or work in Kokomo.

Don Ward stated, maybe it would be a good idea to classify roads and set a minimum right-of-way for any subdivision that goes in. I think that Jasper County is doing that, 50’ centerline so if they wanted to subdivide it they have to give 50’ off of the subdivision o start with.

Attorney Altman stated, I think that’s something that…

Don Ward stated, I think that if they also have a dead end road there hey have a 60’ right-of-way so in order to do anything they have to have 60’ of right-of-way, 30’ on each side of the centerline or they can’t do it. That might be one of the things that, classify a road and set up enough of a right-of-way that that the subdivider can have in order to subdivide…

Attorney Altman stated, that’s what we’re really saying tonight, we have discriminated between a big road and a little one and I think that it’s very legitimate and it’s supportable in law, in court to do that.

Vice President Clawson stated, because the whole scope of our being here is to have a comprehensive plan that’s going to live longer than we are. We want to do planning that our kids aren’t going to look back and say, oh, I just don’t know what these guys were thinking. There are things that we have done and I think now that if we would have had different regulations that we could have done some things a little bit different to make it a little bit better for everyone.

Don Ward stated, actually you know we’re having the access coming out onto 300 West, or 300 East there, you know those 30 footers just don’t get it…

Vice President Clawson stated, no…

Don Ward stated, because you can’t put your radiuses in decent, without cutting across the property corners. You really need a 40’ and anything else like the county roads are still a 40’ and that road needs to be at least 60’ in that area and 100’ or at least 80’ South of there all of the way to State Road 18.

Attorney Altman stated, I agree.

Don Ward stated, because it’s getting to be a major, it is a major road.

Attorney Altman stated, we need that on Sixth Street now.

Don Ward stated, yes.

Jay Clawson stated, yes.

Don Ward stated, Sixth Street I think was 60’ but I can’t remember.

Attorney Altman stated, but it needs to be more uniformed, in place.

Rick Raderstorf stated, the road, match the same so that it’s intersecting…

Don Ward stated, or have corner cuts so you keep stuff away from the corner. It’s going to be a bigger problem than…

Director Weaver stated, something that I would like for all of you to do is look at your Schedule of Uses there is a lot of items that are not listed on our Schedule of Uses that we need to get on there. If you can look at it, jot down some of your ideas that need to be added because there are several things that do need to be added. I would appreciate your help on that because I am looking at adopting a new schedule of uses and trying to cover more areas than what we have covered right now.

Attorney Altman stated, I guess that the last thing that I would mention is quite frankly, we need to be imposing a fine or two.

Vice President Clawson asked, on?

Attorney Altman stated, well like the violation that came up this morning…

Vice President Clawson stated, the one that we denied, #770…

Attorney Altman stated, yes.

Vice President Clawson stated, because they have a sign out of compliance and a business out of compliance over the last several years. I wondered when that popped up and that sign is right in the ditch that’s a safety hazard for anyone…

Attorney Altman stated, I guess that the way that I handle it now, I have just come to let this simmer here and see what happens. Then if it does, go to court and get the judge to file the papers so that the judge makes that decision for us.

Vice President Clawson stated, well he has how much time since we denied this to, well it has to go to the Commissioners…

Director Weaver stated, it goes to the Commissioners…

Vice President Clawson asked, how long does he have, 30 days to cist and desist on that and then he can be fined?

Attorney Altman stated, yes.

Director Weaver stated, 30 days.

Attorney Altman stated, and I’m just quite frankly telling you that this one is ready to go.

Vice President Clawson stated, if the guy has a business there he can rent in a nonresidential area that’s equipped with a full building or something to do auto repair, if that’s the business that he wants to be in…

Attorney Altman stated, so there we are on 300 East.

Director Weaver stated, I would like the Board to know too, as of today, the City of Monticello now falls under our Building Inspectors jurisdiction. So he has jurisdiction over all of the county areas and the city of Monticello, the smaller towns have not yet gone through but he has taken over Monticello as of today.

Attorney Altman stated, famous last one, this nuisance Ordinance, you have the experience that the Commissioners need on that and you need to get some input on that because they need your input.

Director Weaver stated, it went to last Mondays meeting, I don’t know if it passed…

Attorney Altman stated, no it did not pass but they need your input to make this manageable so that they hit the target that they want to hit and you guys sit here and see these every night and they need your input…

Director Weaver stated, and this nuisance ordinance is going to be beneficial to us because areas that are difficult for us to enforce with this nuisance ordinance they are going t to be very simple for him to enforce…

Attorney Altman stated, but to fine tune that, so that they hit the target is what, that was the complaint the people came up with and I don’t blame them. I think that the Commissioners really need your expertise and help to fine tune that because they are back to the drawing board now and they want to get it right.

David Scott stated, the meeting before on that, because we’re trying to write one for our town also and it’s hard to tell someone, a farmer that he can’t have his own machinery sitting out there, yet the next lot you have someone that does it with cars. Well, basically, what is the difference? In one guys eyes his cars are just as important as the guys farm machinery sitting there so it’s a tough thing to do.

Attorney Altman stated there again, I think that the Commissioners would value your input here and I think that it would be helpful.

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The meeting adjourned.

Respectfully submitted,

Donald W. Ward, Secretary

White County Area Plan Commission

Diann Weaver, Director

White County Area Plan Commission