Get Adobe Flash player


The White County Area Plan Commission met Monday December 10, 2001, at 7:30 p.m. in the Commissioners’ Meeting Room, Second Floor, County Building, Monticello, Indiana.

Members attending were: Jay Clawson, Gary Barbour, David Rosenbarger, Charles Anderson, David Scott, Stephen Fisher, Don Ward, Scott Kyburz, Gregory Bossaer and Rick Raderstorf. Also attending was Director Weaver.

Visitors Attending were: Wil Davis, R.L. Kelly, Jay Chaney, Charles R. Mellon, Charlie VanVoorst, Michael Finnigan, Karen Yoder and John Sayler.

The meeting was called to order by President Charles Anderson and roll call was taken. Jay Clawson made a motion to dispense with reading and approve the minutes of the November 13, 2001 meeting. Motion was seconded by Don Ward and carried unanimously.


#759 Robert L. Kelly, Inc.; Requesting to modify a previously considered change of the zoning classification from A-1 to I-2 on 6.822 Acres. The property is located in Honey Creek Township, West of 366 E. U.S. Highway 24. This request was referred back to the Area Plan Commission by the White County Commissioners.

President Anderson asked, it’s kind of confusing on your sheet there. How many total acres are you trying to rezone there? Is that half of the 6.822 acres?

Robert Kelly stated, it’s going to be a little less than half of it.

President Anderson asked, a little less than half of it?

Robert Kelly stated, yes.

President Anderson asked, so you’re actually rezoning the East 162.5’ of that part of the Northwest quarter of Section 34, Township 27 North, Range 4 West in Honey Creek Township, White County Indiana. That whole section there contains 6.822 acres, which you’re rezoning the East less, a little less than half of it, okay. Do we have anyone on the Board with any questions about that request? This was sent back to us from, the Commissioners meeting because, he’s changed the amount that he wanted to rezone I guess. Do you know exactly why it was sent?

Director Weaver stated, he was proposing to them to change what had originally been approved through our Board and they recommended it back to the Board.

President Anderson asked, do any of the Commissioners have any questions about that request?

Don Ward asked, what about the minimum width?

President Anderson asked, about the, what?

Greg Bossaer stated, the analysis…

Director Weaver stated, this does not meet the minimum width requirement for an I-2 zoning but, it is adjoining another I-2 zoning, or another industrial zoning, yes.

Jay Clawson asked, and it is his property, the other one?

Director Weaver stated, it is his property.

President Anderson asked, so, it does then once it’s rezoned?

Director Weaver stated, the combination of the two.

President Anderson stated, the combination of the two. Are there any other questions about this request? Does anyone in the audience, state your name.

Charlie VanVoorst stated, Charlie VanVoorst, I’m an owner on the Northwest side. What about on the North end? I own residential property all of way along the North end of that, is that, is there any setbacks if that is rezoned to I-2, can he come right up against the fence, if I would have to put a rental house there?

President Anderson asked, what are you zoned? Are you zoned residential?

Robert Kelly stated, there is a gas tank there now…

Charlie VanVoorst stated, it’s this property right here.

President Anderson asked, what are you zoned as then?

Charlie VanVoorst stated, I believe it’s A-1.

Director Weaver stated, yes, I believe that he is zoned A-1 to the North.

Charlie VanVoorst stated, except for a piece of property that I have business property up here, this is my residential, and this here is a separate half acre that lays in behind there. I was going to put a ventral plumbing on, which is on this one which would be esgroed.

President Anderson asked, right now there’s nothing in there, it’s not joined residential so it would have to go with the agricultural and would be any setbacks?

Director Weaver stated, a side setback in agricultural zoning is 15’ that really wouldn’t be considered a front because, it doesn’t join the road frontage so, I would assume that it would go with a side setback of 15’.

President Anderson asked, so it would be a 15’ setback?

Director Weaver stated, unless the Board sets something different. I mean we do have that option.

Steve Fisher asked, you said 15’ where?

Director Weaver stated, a side setback is 15’.

Steve Fisher asked, since that’s an adjoining lot to another “I” it would be 15’ now is it going to be 15’ on all 4 or all 3 sides of that?

President Anderson stated, no, it would be the one adjoining side because, he owns the property…

Director Weaver stated, right….

President Anderson stated, and then the other property that he has is agricultural.

Steve Fisher stated, what he’s talking about is where VanVoorsts’ property is abutting up against, there is going to be, that’s going to be a 15’ setback…

President Anderson stated, he couldn’t build within 15’ of that.

Steve Fisher stated, that almost looks like it would be like a front setback than a side setback…

Director Weaver stated, well, a front though, is on a roadside…

Charlie VanVoorst stated, that’s what this is.

Director Weaver stated, no…

President Anderson asked, there’s a road in between….

Director Weaver stated, no, there’s no road there.

Robert Kelly stated, I think that he’s misleading you pretty good. There is a big gas tank sitting there 30,000 gallon, LP tank sitting there. Next to this road and the North end it should be an I-2 or same as I am and he never did zone it or nothing….

President Anderson stated, this is Spark Kelly talking, so we can get it on the record.

Robert Kelly stated, I think he is misleading you on all of that there.

President Anderson asked, do the Commissioners have any other questions?

Don Ward stated, yes, I’m confused about, I don’t see what he’s talking about, maybe the rest of them do, do you know what he’s talking about?

Director Weaver stated, if you look on the back of the staff report, there is a survey there and that is what he provided to us showing what he’s wanting to rezone.

Charlie VanVoorst stated, this is the property in question, 162’ off of that, this is my house and this is a ½ acre….

A Board member asked, so this is a separate parcel?

Charlie VanVoorst stated, that’s correct.

Director Weaver stated, yes, that is what he is now wanting to rezone.

There was discussion among the Board members and the audience members.

Charlie VanVoorst stated, I’m commercial property, I own commercial property behind that and on the other side.

There was discussion among the Board members and the audience members.

President Anderson asked, do the Commissioners have any other questions about this?

Director Weaver stated, I do want to mention to the Commissioners too that we do not have a signed commitment on this. We were going to do a commitment with his last request, we do not have a commitment on this request, not at this time, not unless the Commissioners want that.

Don Ward stated, this is zoning back against this property, it looks like it has a road back in there.

Charlie VanVoorst stated, there is no road back in there.

Robert Kelly stated, there is a gas station, it has to be 50’ or 75’ away from that where he’s building that buildings or anything.

President Anderson asked, is the gas tank on, who’s property? Charlie’s property?

Robert Kelly stated, he has a motor shop on there too.

President Anderson asked, but, there is a restriction as far as how close you can build to that gas tank isn’t there?

Robert Kelly stated, yes.

President Anderson asked, so how far is that gas tank from the property line?

Robert Kelly asked, about 50’ from, which property line, mine?

President Anderson stated, your property line yes, or his property line. Both of your property lines, your property line is to the South and his to the North.

Charlie VanVoorst stated, probably 75’.

President Anderson stated, probably 75’.

Wil Davis stated, where the tank sits now, there is no way that you can put a house on that corner, as the tank sets present.

President Anderson asked, do you want to state anything about what you want, what you plan on doing with the property in there Spark?

Robert Kelly stated, I don’t know yet.

President Anderson asked, do the Commissioners have any more questions about it?

Director Weaver stated, right Jay, this is the same request coming back to you, it’s been revised.

President Anderson stated, it’s been cut better than half from what he really wanted, originally wanted.

Director Weaver stated, yes.

Will Davis stated, except now the zoning will be the business right up against Sparks own property, contains another 150’ plus feet on the West side of the I-2 zoning there so there won’t be any property abutting up other than the Northeast corner of Charlie’s.

President Anderson asked, do we have it figured out yet? Do you have some concerns on that Don?

Don Ward stated, yes, I do.

President Anderson asked, what is your concern?

Don Ward stated, well, the drawing back there Exhibit A, doesn’t match what is shown up here on the staff report.

President Anderson stated, it’s probably showing the whole, is the other one showing the whole piece of property?

Jay Clawson asked, you mean the staff report or…

Director Weaver stated, the staff report does not have current property lines on it. There is some property lines missing off of that staff report.

Jay Clawson asked, is this the same?

Don Ward stated, oh, okay, yes. So he just wants 162.5’ off of that, off of the East side.

President Anderson asked, so do we have any added questions about this request? Does anyone have any concerns about before he said that he wouldn’t put that, move his asphalt plant over there which, I don’t think that he was planning on doing anyway and that was a major concern….

David Scott asked, will this all be in the county or will any of this be in the town?

Will Davis stated, none of it in town.

Robert Kelly stated, it’s on the county, it’s on me.

Director Weaver stated, they eliminated the part that was in town.

David Scott asked, the part now is the corporation limit?

Director Weaver stated, no.

President Anderson stated, there was only just a little bit that was in the town to begin with on the whole 6…..

Will Davis stated, just in that “L” shaped…

President Anderson stated, well, wasn’t it originally 7 and 7 so many acres?

Jay Clawson stated, 7.626.

President Anderson asked, in this 6.822 acres, is that all in the county then and not in the city, the other piece that was in the city was on the other, made up the other acres or what ever it was.

Will Davis stated, 1.17 acre, yes.

President Anderson asked, so this is all….

Will Davis stated, all in the county, it does not touch the city at all, or the town rather.

President Anderson asked, but, as far as the buffer around it, he has another 3 acres around it, 4 acres.

Will Davis stated, this way it doesn’t touch any one else’s property but, his own basically.

Don Ward stated, well 6 acres left out of 7.626, actually most of it, rezone most of it.

President Anderson asked, so do we have any other questions at all or do you want to go ahead and vote on that?

Jay Clawson asked, did you check with Attorney Altman and make sure that by combining the two that it is in compliance on the West…

Director Weaver stated, our Ordinance does not require for a rezoning for it to meet that minimum width requirement. No where in the Ordinance does it say that to rezone it has to meet that.

President Anderson asked, I say let's go ahead and vote, if we don’t have any more questions at all. Does anyone in the audience have any more questions?

Jay Clawson asked, does it still have to be a fence between him and Charlie or is it…

President Anderson stated, not up against his own property.

Director Weaver stated, well previously, we did have a commitment or did ask for a commitment but, that’s up to the Board to decide tonight if we want to continue with that commitment or do away with that.

President Anderson asked, do the Commissioners want to respond to that at all? It’s not required in an I-2 zoning up against an agricultural….

Director Weaver stated, no, not against agricultural land, no, that’s against residential.

President Anderson asked, now if he put change, the zoning to the other piece then it would, if something went residential by that it would have to be done, after the fact.

Gary Barbour asked, whose responsibility is it, if residential.

President Anderson stated, but, it’s all up against agricultural now…

Director Weaver stated, I suppose that would be something that we could address at that time. I don’t think that the way that it’s stated in here that it says. Residential protection; any business or industrial use that abuts an area zoned or used for residential purposes must have a fence or barrier at least 8’ in height. This visual obstruction must be provided and perpetually maintained by the owner of the commercial or industrial property and may be in the form of a solid fence or natural vegetation.

President Anderson asked, but, right now he’s going up against all agricultural not residential then?

Director Weaver stated, right.

President Anderson asked, so, it really doesn’t require it. Any other questions?

There was discussion among the Board members.

Don Ward stated, well it’s about half, it’s 25 and a half….

President Anderson stated, no, he’s going about a little less than half of that is what he’s asking to do.

Don Ward stated, 163’ by 850’, 138,000 square feet is about 4 acres, between 3 and 4 acres so he is only asking for half of that 7.626.

Robert Kelly stated, it will be less than half of it, you put the off set in it….

Don Ward stated, well, I just ran a feasible standard…

Jay Clawson asked, that 7.626 includes the offset doesn’t it?

Robert Kelly stated, no…

Director Weaver stated, yes, the 7.626 does.

Robert Kelly stated, but, the other doesn’t…

President Anderson asked, but, you end up with how many square feet?

Don Ward stated, just slightly over 3 acres.

President Anderson stated, so it’s just a little less than half of the 6….

Don Ward stated, yes, less than half of that 7.626.

Will Davis stated, this is better for everyone because, it’s only abutting his property only…

Don Ward stated, right, he’s leaving a barrier…

Will Davis stated, exactly.

Gary Barbour asked, when you leave agricultural on that side of it, are we setting a precedence here by letting industrial go in next to agricultural? So, the next time industrial comes in and tells us the same thing, will they not have to put a fence in for a barrier between agricultural or residential area? Is that what we’re going to do?

Robert Kelly stated, you’re getting ahead of yourself, I’m to old to do all of that, I don’t understand that at all.

Gary Barbour stated, but, it says we want you to give every initiative, every chance to get away with building a fence as a boundary between properties on the outside of their property is agricultural.

There was discussion among the Board members.

Robert Kelly stated, that’s 100 years from now.

David Rosenbarger asked, what is your reasoning for drawing the line there, of how large this is going to be, and do the whole thing?

Will Davis stated, because, we don’t want the problem with Charlie and land….

Robert Kelly stated, I don’t have the problem with him I just want to get that going…

Will Davis stated,…instead of making a problem…

Robert Kelly stated, trying to solve them…

Will Davis stated, and he’s expanded that barrier much farther than what you guys originally wanted, 100’ and now we’re at 160 some feet. So it’s expanded another 60 and a half feet to get away from Charlie that much more.

Don Ward stated, we had an agricultural there the last time but, we asked for a fence…

President Anderson stated, there was adjoining in that residential and a little part at that point.

Will Davis stated, and that was when we were next to the City Park and everything else.

Don Ward stated, oh I see…

David Rosenbarger stated, see we asked for a fence with 100’ and now we’re not going to ask for a fence because, they added 62’ to it, so does the eyesore get that farther away, another 62’?

Will Davis stated, but, it’s not mandated by the laws that it has to be there.

Robert Kelly stated, it doesn’t even say about putting it there, you’re just guessing at it.

President Anderson asked, does anyone else have any questions about it? Does any of the Commissioners feet that we should require a fence around it? It’s really not in, he doesn’t have to put a fence around there according to the Ordinance.

Jay Clawson asked, by leaving that agriculture with that small lot does that make it, it’s taking that out of compliance by making that agricultural lot too small? By changing from, you know, do you see what I’m trying to say, does that make that agriculture lot too small to meet the requirements for it being agricultural lot?

Director Weaver stated, the smallest is one acre, minimum width is 150’.

President Anderson stated, yes because, we can have one acre…

Jay Clawson stated, it’s 150’ so that meets the…

Director Weaver stated, it does meet the agriculture requirement.

Jay Clawson stated, if we allow this and it is in compliance with an agricultural lot then it should. If we were doing something that was taking, making that into a non-complying use then we would be in trouble but, if that still meets the requirements of width and length to still be an agricultural lot I don’t think that we’re doing anything wrong as far as zoning. We have enough to meet our industrial and we have enough to still leave an agricultural lot and just not be, just a little non-useable strip.

President Anderson asked, do we want to go ahead and vote then?

With no further discussion the Board voted.

The results of the vote were as follows: 8 affirmative and 2 negative. This will be presented to County Commissioners for their action.

President Anderson asked, the date is?

Director Weaver stated, it will be Monday morning at 8:30 here in the Commissioners room.

Robert Kelly asked, this room?

Director Weaver stated, yes.

President Anderson stated, so anyone that wants to attend that meeting you’re welcome to it.

Will Davis stated, thank you very much.


#777 John Saylor; Requesting to rezone from A-1 to R-4 on 2.150 Acres. The property is located in Honey Creek Township on the North side of CR 250 N., approximately ¼ mile West of CR 250 E.

President Anderson asked, do we have anyone here representing that request?

John Saylor was present to represent this request.

President Anderson asked, do the Commissioners have any questions about this request at all? Do we have anyone to respond to that?

David Scott asked, I assume that these will all be septic?

John Saylor stated, sewer.

President Anderson asked, does anyone in the audience have any questions about this request at all? Did we receive any questions about it?

Director Weaver stated, no, we have not.

President Anderson asked, if there are no questions about it, I say that we go ahead and vote. Do the Commissioners have any questions?

Jay Clawson asked, is there any kind of road system that has to come into the requirements for roads or anything that are in this?

Director Weaver stated, as far as I’m aware, there is nothing that addresses this as to what they need to have within the area. They can have 4 mobile homes before they are regulated by the State, anything over 4 then they have to be State regulated, other than…

Don Ward asked, does there have to be a plat?

Director Weaver stated, nothing in the Ordinance requiring that, if the Board would want to request that, we could do so but, there is nothing in the Ordinance saying that they have to do that.

Don Ward asked, which way, are you going to kind of face your lots towards the street, towards the highway from the county highway?

John Saylor stated, I’m going to face them East and West.

Don Ward stated, okay, you’re going to face them East and West, you’re going to have a road on both sides? Have a road on the East side or the West side?

John Saylor stated, it’s going to go right down through the middle, right North and South.

Don Ward asked, oh, I see, you’re going to split it into 4’s that way?

John Saylor stated, yes.

Don Ward stated, that would bring one outlet on the county road, that would make them one hundred some, that’s a pretty good sized lot.

President Anderson asked, which side of the easement?

Don Ward stated, asked, what is your street size, have you decided?

President Anderson stated, it would be a private drive….

Don Ward stated, it would probably be a private drive.

President Anderson stated, but, it would be better the wider you make it so you know if you have to have access with fire trucks or anything like that so you measure….

Director Weaver stated, our Ordinance requires a minimum of 50’ road right-of-way.

President Anderson asked, road right-of-way. With that many acres, you still have plenty of room in there wouldn’t he?

Don Ward stated, yes, have about 260’ of width so, if you took out 50’, you have 210’ divided by 2. So, you would have 100’ of width or length, you would have 100’ of length and you’re going to have more than that in width. It’s 350’ deep, you’re going to have 175’ of width.

President Anderson stated, you don’t have to build a road that big but, you can leave it at 50’….

Don Ward stated, make the right-of-way 50’…

Jay Clawson asked, do you guys have natural gas out there or are you still using LP gas, you’re utility lines run in that way you have an easement across, power.

President Anderson asked, and if you ever want to split it up and sell it off in lots because you can do that. Are there any other questions? I say let's go ahead and vote then.

With no further discussion the Board voted.

The results of the vote were as follows: 10 affirmative and 0 negative. This will be presented to County Commissioners for their action.

Director Weaver stated, this also will go to the County Commissioners Monday morning at 8:30.

John Saylor asked, do I have to be there?

Director Weaver stated, we advise it.


#266 Michael D. & Brenda J. Finnegan; Requesting primary approval of a 10 lot subdivision to be known as West Bedford Estates on 6.49 acres. The property is located in Monon Township on the West side of C.R. 300 E., just south of Monon Road. Tabled from October 9, 2001.

President Anderson asked, anyone here representing that request?

Michael Finnegan was present to represent the request.

President Anderson asked, and we’re just doing the primary approval?

Director Weaver stated, yes, primary approval only tonight. This came back to the Board because, we wanted to see less outlets onto the county road so, he had to redraw this.

President Anderson asked, now he has redone it the way that we wanted? Meets all of the requirements of the subdivision then?

Director Weaver stated, to the best of my knowledge, yes.

Jay Clawson asked, and this does restrict the use of not being able to put their driveways somewhere else by doing this and the building inspector enforces that, that’s where the driveways will be?

Director Weaver stated, yes, the plat will…

Jay Clawson asked, and he can’t say that if the guy decides well, even though that’s there if he wants to put it there….

Don Ward stated, we approve this.

Jay Clawson stated, and this is where your ingress and egress, okay. I know that’s what we asked for I wanted to make sure.

President Anderson asked, does anyone else have any questions about this request at all?

Don Ward asked, maybe we need something on the plat that requires that they use these easements for ingress and egress, that’s shown on the plat and not use the county road. Technically, you’re probably right Jay, they can go ahead and get on there just because of the utility easement. They can still probably still go out on the county road, there’s nothing here that says that they can’t.

President Anderson asked, can we pass this primary approval with that restriction though that, he can write that up in…

Jay Clawson stated, yes, I think that it needs to be on the final plat…

Director Weaver stated, we can put it on the final plat, right on the plat.

President Anderson stated, conditions would be that ingress and egress be listed on the final plat for the secondary approval.

Don Ward stated, yes, ingress and egress.

President Anderson asked, what is it 10 lots that we have on that? The 10 lots have to use that as their ingress and egress, as a way in and out.

Dave Scott stated, yes, restricted to the established easements.

President Anderson stated, I say let's go ahead and vote then.

With no further discussion the Board voted.

The Primary Approval Request for a 10 lot subdivision to be known as West Bedford Estates located in Monon Township, was approved by a vote of 10 to 0, based on a finding of fact that the Standards of the Subdivision Control Ordinance have been met.

President Anderson stated, 10 votes’ state that the primary approval shall be granted upon receipt of additional conditions as required by the Commission. Those would be the conditions on the final plat that the 10 lots have to use the easements that are on the ingress and egress on the final plat. So yes, on your final plat you have to state that those 10 lots have to use the access or the easements that we put on there, they can’t circumvent that and go right out on the road itself.


#267 Randall A. & Karen K. Yoder; Requesting approval of a 2 lot subdivision to be known as Yoder Subdivision on 0.220 Acres. The property is located in the Town of Brookston at 204 &

206 E. Third Street.

President Anderson asked, do we have anyone here representing that request?

Karen Yoder was present to represent this request.

President Anderson asked, is this for both primary and secondary?

Director Weaver stated, yes, it can be both.

President Anderson stated, primary and secondary approval.

Director Weaver stated, I do want to bring attention to the Board that this has two existing buildings on it. Lot #1, the width of that lot does not meet the minimum width requirement as required in the Ordinance. I did not require them to go through a variance, I was going to leave that up to the Board’s discretion to see how they wanted to handle this due to the fact that there are existing buildings on the property.

Karen Yoder stated, it’s 4’…

Director Weaver stated, right, it’s only a 4’ difference.

Karen Yoder stated, it’s really just the lots are running one way and the buildings are running the other if you want to see the old survey it might….

Jay Clawson asked, does it have the buildings on that?

Karen Yoder stated, yes.

Jay Clawson stated, it will help.

There was discussion among Karen Yoder and the Board members.

President Anderson asked, would they have to get it to put a building back on there?

Director Weaver stated, yes, they would have to file a variance well, see that’s why I didn’t require the variance first, I hadn’t quite had a situation like this, I wasn’t real sure what to do with it.

Jay Clawson stated, I thought that you had something showing how the houses were sitting….

Karen Yoder stated, really all that we’re doing is making the lots…

Randy Yoder stated, the lots run East and West and the buildings set North and South.

Karen Yoder stated, they’re existing, we’re not moving anything…

Jay Clawson stated, right but, a lot of times Jim will show what the buildings sitting on the lot…

Karen Yoder stated, I think that he does…

Director Weaver stated, yes, he does Jay….

Jay Clawson asked, the dotted lines are…

Director Weaver stated, the dotted lines are the buildings, yes.

Don Ward asked, the buildings are attached to that right?

Karen Yoder stated, no, they are separated…

Don Ward stated, it looks like it on the front right here…

Karen Yoder stated, actually, on this one…

Randy Yoder stated, there is a wall right here…

Karen Yoder stated, the very front has one, actually he shows this here, these are separated and my husband, they have actually been separated it’s just the front of it still has the siding…

President Anderson asked, is there only one residence there?

Director Weaver stated, there’s no residence, neither one is a residence both of them are business buildings and both to the East and West. It’s kind of hard to read it sits back farther than the other buildings but it goes from lot to lot or from side to side.

President Anderson asked, do we have any questions about that or any comments about it from the Board?

Steve Fisher asked, Don is that some kind of an electric line going through the center line…

Jay Clawson stated, see the power line here…

Director Weaver stated, it’s an overhead electric.

President Anderson asked, is there a space between these two buildings there?

Director Weaver stated, you can see it from the backside, I tried to show it, the trailer was kind of in the way.

Karen Yoder stated, there is a Laundromat on the Northwest so, it really can make them be more in conjunction with the lots if they were changed.

Steve Fisher asked, what is the deal at the top of that, is that not part of the, is that going go be a common area beyond that is where it’s going that way North, what is that mini storage buildings?

Jay Clawson asked, 15’ of nothing there?

Randy Yoder stated, yes, Rex Hendryx owns that, he says that there is enough for another storage building the size that he has there, that’s showing there.

Karen Yoder stated, there is access that runs behind the Laundromat.

Randy Yoder stated, he has one storage building and then he can put one just to the South of the existing storage building that he has there.

Director Weaver stated, Steve, there is a piece that goes with lot #1, that runs clear across from the East side to the West side.

Karen Yoder stated, that is our access.

Steve Fisher asked, is that going to belong to #1?

Karen Yoder stated, that’s how it is on this one.

Steve Fisher asked, so that actually lot #1 is in an “L” shaped?

There was discussion among the Board members and the Yoder’s.

President Anderson asked, how are they going to access this building from the behind the sliding doors then?

Director Weaver asked, lot #2?

Jay Clawson stated, lot #2, yes.

Director Weaver asked, how are they going to access the backside of the building?

Karen Yoder stated, I thought that everyone has access I mean we have as it is, this is all one piece now how do you normally do that? I mean, they will have access because, we will allow them access.

Jay Clawson stated, but, if you sold the property and if you sold lot #1 to somebody else and the way that you have it written here unless you grant them easement if the guy on lot #1 decides that he doesn’t want lot #2 to come across it. He can say sorry, you can’t come and go so it needs to…

David Scott stated, you need to have an easement written in with this.

Jay Clawson stated, right, you’re going to have to plat some kind of an easement on and have some kind of restriction about that being non buildable anything being built on that whole….

President Anderson stated, either that or change your line and make the lot #1 even smaller and just leave that easement back behind it as part of lot #1.

Director Weaver stated, take that middle lot line just go directly North…

Steve Fisher stated, …square footage of you lot sizes too if you do that.

Jay Clawson asked, but, do both buildings use the back lot to get in and out?

Director Weaver stated, yes they are now, they were the day that I was there.

Jay Clawson asked, is lot #1 common ground for both lots?

Randy Yoder stated, yes, you can access the East lot from the alley but, if his second storage building goes in his setback is still, well you can’t go by the setback anyhow because it’s his property. There will still be access there is what I’m getting at because of his setback. It’s really kind of hard because the buildings have been there for how many years when where they built in 1945 or whatever. So, it’s really kind of hard and since they already sold off the back part of it, it’s kind of, that’s why we’re here just trying to get something squared away with them because it’s just…

Jay Clawson stated, I don’t think that we’re having much trouble with the two lots it’s just tying to…

Randy Yoder stated, make easement…

Jay Clawson stated, yes, we want to make sure that both times, when you’re kids are talking about doing something 30 years from now that something doesn’t happen to where someone can’t use that so…

Karen Yoder stated, with the building, she has an antique shop in it, there is a garage door opener, an access, does that give it a right….

Director Weaver stated, but, if you don’t grant them an easement…

Jay Clawson stated, to drive across to the back…

Director Weaver stated, or deed part of that, they can’t use that.

Jay Clawson stated, yes, if you own this and decide that you want to block them, you can later block them without having but, an easement to lot #2 on your property there, this is going to have a legal description for this small piece of property. That this is going to be set for an easement forever. That both lots can use this property for ingress and egress on that it shouldn’t be a problem.

Steve Fisher stated, they also understand that they are not going to be buildable lots if that place is destroyed or whatever.

Director Weaver stated, well, they will have to go through a variance.

Randy Yoder asked, on the new drawing, does it show…?

There was discussion among the Board members and the Yoder’s.

Jay Clawson stated, if they sell this lot and this person, doesn’t want to grant them easement then they have no way of…

Steve Fisher stated, there is no easement, that’s the ownership of lot #1, this whole…

Jay Clawson stated, the way that you separated it, lot #1, is all ownership to that one strip.

Steve Fisher asked, if you grant an easement to lot #2 and, is this someone else’s now?

Randy Yoder stated, yes, this belongs to him and he would have this…

Don Ward stated, you can run it as an easement to lot #1 and #2 the full width.

Jay Clawson stated, that’s all that you need to do, we can do primary tonight and have Jim write something about this easement because it’s too small to build anything on…

Randy Yoder stated, right…

Jay Clawson stated, just write that there is easement on this on that lot and then we can do primary, secondary at next meeting.

Karen Yoder asked, what is our other option?

Don Ward stated, there’s not.

Steve Fisher stated, you don’t have to grant an easement if you really didn’t want to, it’s but, it would be a nice thing…

Jay Clawson stated, yes, we don’t want someone, see they don’t care if she goes in and out but, if someone else buys it and they do, you don’t want to have a squabble down the road saying they blocked me off from the, I would like to see that written in there.

Randy Yoder stated, yes, that would be fine.

Jay Clawson stated, because two people now in an agreement is fine but, property owners change and it’s not always so rosy down the line.

President Anderson stated, if something would happen too in lot #1 and that building would happen to be destroyed, Randy, if building #1 would happen to be destroyed, you couldn’t rebuild that without a variance on that.

Randy Yoder stated, that was the other thing on my mind, was actually if anyone has seen these buildings the old feed mill, it should have been tore down 20 years ago. The walls are still good, they are still good solid masonry walls, it’s just the lumber that they added to it is all exposed and gone. So what we have planned to do is once we sell the building, we would have the East to ourselves, the one closest to the alley there is take everything down except for the walls and put a new run and trusts system back across it. Enclose it and then you have another nice little building actually. Bartlett’s just put in 100,000 dollar building right across the alley, this one here is looking kind of shabby but, that building should not be demolished as far as I’m concerned…

President Anderson stated, if you want to do that you may have to get a variance anyway because if you tear too much of that down…

Randy Yoder stated, right well, see the walls will be there, the walls aren’t coming down because, they are good solid block walls it’s just that everything that is on top of it, that’s the bad part.

Steve Fisher asked, if he encroached on an alley and he starts to remodel they are going to make him move it off of that alley?

Director Weaver stated, yes, and that’s what I mentioned…

Steve Fisher stated, your building is going to get smaller…

Director Weaver stated, if you improve the building more than 50 percent, then you’re going to break the grandfather clause.

President Anderson stated, get an estimated of the value right now and just don’t go more than half.

Director Weaver stated, or go ahead and go through the variance process…

Jay Clawson stated, yes, go through your variance process, maybe the Town of Brookston will allow you to, since it’s been there say that you’re going to show them what you have planned for your building. Maybe the town will allow you to do the improvements and still leave it as it’s sitting. I’m not saying that they will but, you can go to them with your plans and then if they say that it’s okay for you do the improvements and leave that wall there on the alley, then you can go get a variance. Then you’re, you shouldn’t have, before I would spend a lot of money I would go through those processes first.

Randy Yoder stated, really if we had someone that would had an idea with that whole area, which we don’t, Dave do we have anyone in Brookston that wants to buy that area or a factor or something?

David Rosenbarger stated, not that I know of.

Randy Yoder stated, then you know it would be a nice area to do something with but, since it’s run down and looks awful and has for 20 years, that’s the reason that I took it over. I got tired of looking at it the way that it is. So, we have been cleaning it up a little bit but, now we come down to this point where it would be kind of nice to sell one building and have the one try to improve it clean it up make it functionable again.

Karen Yoder stated, going back to access though, is there any suggestion that you have as, and correct me if I’m saying this wrong, on the East building, do you have access from the alley to it? Would we be better off to give the other building for like someone had mentioned extend the property line and that’s just the property or…

President Anderson stated, they still have to come across the property one to get to it…

Director Weaver stated, no, because they can come off of the street…

President Anderson stated, they can come from the other street, yes.

Karen Yoder stated, and then you have that…

Randy Yoder stated, there’s access to the building from the alley that’s been there forever and I know that if anything new goes in there I can understand the setbacks and everything.

Director Weaver stated, if you extend the lot line to the North lot #1 could access off of the alley and then lot #2 could access off of South Street that would be acceptable.

Karen Yoder asked, we just have to decide if we’re doing that and we’re just getting this one?

Director Weaver stated, right.

President Anderson asked, if you were going to do that we would have to get, can we still do it primary and have them change it on the other one?

Director Weaver stated, I think that could, I think that we have done that before.

President Anderson asked, would you rather do that or would you rather put an easement in? You can do either one.

Randy Yoder stated, it depends on if Jim would have to come back and re-survey it, if it costs us more hours or not.

President Anderson stated, all that he would have to do is draw in a line.

Director Weaver stated, I wouldn’t see why he would have to come back out.

Jay Clawson stated, if you just had him drawn this line out here and just have this as lot #1 and all of this as lot #2, that way they can have a way here. If you want to let them come and go here, they can still go this way but, at least if you sell and the people don’t want them to go here, they have a way in and out.

Karen Yoder stated, right, okay…

Jay Clawson stated, and you would have to change you’re square footage for the two lots for what that is, just a little math and just draw that line….

Randy Yoder stated, okay…

Jay Clawson stated, I think that Jim should be able to do that without re-surveying it.

President Anderson stated, and you can do the primary approval tonight and then you would have to come back for secondary approval. The primary approval would be contingent that you extend or change the lot lines for the easement for and give easement for lot #2 to the backspace.

Karen Yoder asked, do we have to make a decision tonight if we’re granting?

President Anderson stated, well, we write it up that way because we have to put something on here is…

Steve Fisher stated, of course we can table it until the next meeting if they want to.

President Anderson stated, you can do both at the next meeting, you’re going to have to change it anyway.

Karen Yoder asked, would we be done the next meeting?

Steve Fisher stated, it’s going to take you to the next meeting anyway, either way. You can ask that this be table until next month until you get it figured out…

President Anderson stated, you can do both primary and secondary at the next meeting and it would all done as long as you show access, whether you set it up so that it’s an easement or whether you extend the lot line or…

Jay Clawson stated, or we can do, extend lot #2 to back a lot line or grant an easement.

Director Weaver stated, or an easement…

Jay Clawson stated, or grant an easement and then you can decide, we give you primary and you can decide what you done, have it ready to go on the final plat for next meeting.

Randy Yoder stated, that’s fine.

President Anderson stated, okay, we’ll pass the primary and then put that in there.

Jay Clawson stated, you can do it which ever way that you want.

With no further discussion the Board voted.

The Primary Approval Request for a 2 lot subdivision to be known as Yoder Subdivision located in the Town of Brookston, Prairie Township, was approved by a vote of 10 to 0, based on a finding of fact that the Standards of the Subdivision Control Ordinance have been met.

President Anderson stated, primary approval shall be granted upon receipt of conditional conditions which, would be either to extend lot #2 line back where it has the easement from behind and cut back lot #1, or grant an easement to lot #2 thought the back of lot #1. You can decide that yourselves.

Karen Yoder stated, I just hate to, I have to think about this.

President Anderson stated, alright.

Karen Yoder asked, when is the next meeting?

Director Weaver stated, January the 14th.


President Anderson asked, do we have any business to discuss? Do we want to bring that up?

Director Weaver stated, I guess that we can, I mean, we’re in a public meeting.

President Anderson stated, the Commissioners have expressed some concern about our lawyer but, I don’t, they are upset with him for at least one letter that he sent out and they called me and I don’t know, I can’t figure out exactly what they want us to do. They haven’t given any suggestions if they want us to hire another lawyer or appoint another lawyer.

Don Ward asked, what is the pay? Does he get a monthly pay?

Director Weaver stated, yes, he does. I don’t have the figure here with me, I believe that it’s approximately 8,000 dollars a year, I believe. Now currently, we’re spending out well…

President Anderson stated, well, he’s getting extra on top of that too.

Director Weaver stated, right.

President Anderson asked, so what does that come to?

Director Weaver stated, currently we have already paid him 4,700 dollars on top of that salary.

Don Ward asked, on top of the salary?

Director Weaver stated, yes.

President Anderson stated, that’s 12,000 dollars.

A Board member asked, what are they upset about?

President Anderson asked, I think, according to them, some of the letters that he sent out to people, you know sometimes you have to correct things but, the main one was what he sent to Spackman. I assume and I don’t know what that letter, do you have a copy of that letter?

Director Weaver stated, not with me.

President Anderson asked, do you know what the letter said? Can you…

Director Weaver stated, basically, it gave him 10 days to cease or desist with the ride.

President Anderson asked, and the Commissioners didn’t really actually want to take over the rides anyway?

Director Weaver stated, right.

President Anderson asked, which is what it finally came down to. Did they complain to you about any other things?

Director Weaver stated, no.

Dave Scott stated, he sent Indiana Beach a letter, Spackman a letter saying that they had to cease or desist there, one of their rides…

Director Weaver stated, one of their rides because…

President Anderson stated, they weren’t in compliance but, they never have been requested to be on those particular rides but then on some of the buildings they didn’t keep up with right either.

Director Weaver stated, yes.

Jay Clawson asked, the Commissioners can set that prescience, with the rides I don’t have a problem with it but, any buildings, structures that they have there should be…

Director Weaver stated, and I believe that’s the way that the Commissioners want it to be…

Jay Clawson stated, and they should be under the same building inspection as to what everyone else in the county is.

President Anderson asked, was Spackman not getting back with you guys, is that why he sent that out?

Director Weaver stated, no, that was the first letter that he sent.

President Anderson asked, the first letter that he ever got?

Director Weaver stated, that was the first letter sent out.

President Anderson stated, and the biggest employer in the county with a letter like that he probably gets a little upset and then that upset the Commissioners too.

Director Weaver stated, yes.

President Anderson asked, they just said that they were upset with him, did they say to you they wanted us to consider someone else, is that what they wanted us to do?

Greg Bossaer asked, how often do these letters go out, not very often?

Director Weaver stated, there’s getting to be more of them. Usually, a situation like that we would try to handle on our own that one because of who it was and the complaint, I went to Attorney Altman and Attorney Altman helped me compose the letter.

President Anderson asked, where did the complaint come from?

Director Weaver stated, the neighbor.

President Anderson stated, oh, he was the one that stirred it up then.

Director Weaver stated, the two ladies, yes.

David Scott asked, what basically was in the letter?

Don Ward stated, that’s irrelevant to the case I think.

Director Weaver stated, I can go get a copy of it.

Don Ward stated, that might be a good idea.

Director Weaver asked, would you like for me to do that?

Don Ward stated, yes.

President Anderson asked, can you think of any other letters that they sent out that would have…

Director Weaver stated, no, that’s the only one that I’m aware of that there was a problem. I don’t know that was the only incident that they were unhappy with him.

Dave Scott stated, I don’t know about, I mean he seems like he does a fair job of what I have been around. What I would, I’m just sitting here thinking about, I mean if they are going to, I would I mean we’re king of evolving right now as far as Area Plan goes in getting permits and things like that. For years you just done what you wanted to and you didn’t get permits and things like that and it may be the case out there I mean is it was a ride or something that had been there for years?

President Anderson stated, no two, they were wanting to start addressing the rides as far as zoning and things too but, the county doesn’t want to do that now. He came to, one of the Commissioners came to the last meeting because of the liability that you get into if you approve that particular ride. Now the buildings they want, the county wants them to bring those in.

David Scott stated, sure and they should but I think that you should give them fair time and everything too.

President Anderson stated, 10 days is a little short notice.

David Scott stated, not only the effect that Indiana Beach had in White County, I would think that they would want to work with them. I think that they should have followed the same rules as everyone else. To say that you have 10 days to shut something down, that seems to be a little strict.

President Anderson stated, it was a little fast I think especially for one of the largest employers in the county.

David Scott stated, that’s right. If I had to send a letter like that, I would send another letter with it telling them that this is the rules are come and talk to me and we’ll figure something, you know, I would hate to be so cold about it…

President Anderson stated, I would have thought that Director Weaver would have known what was in that letter and questioned it too.

Don Ward stated, well, it’s a little tough to find lawyers that will do Area Plan too.

Director Weaver stated, okay, I was off a little bit on the salary, his approved salary for next year is 2,890 dollars.

President Anderson stated, that’s what I thought.

David Rosenbarger stated, good Lord, no wonder no one wants to do it.

President Anderson stated, I originally thought that it was around 2,000 to 3,000 dollars that’s from a few years ago and I was thinking that 12,000 dollars…

Jay Clawson asked, that’s for both BZA and….

Director Weaver stated, yes, and we have had that increased quite a bit in the last few years.

President Anderson asked, what do the lawyers from some of the other groups make?

Director Weaver stated, I don’t have any idea. This was the letter that was sent to Mr. Spackman, the letter was read out loud to the Board members.

Don Ward stated, all that it does is say that he needs to get the permit.

President Anderson stated, yes.

Some of the Board members stated, yes.

David Scott stated, it doesn’t have to be in compliance, they just need to get started.

President Anderson asked, which I think that he did in that 10 days, didn’t he?

Director Weaver stated, they did contact us within 10 days, yes.

President Anderson stated, another thing that they were saying that he thinks that Attorney Altman is trying to run these meetings and I don’t see where he’s doing that. I mean he helps out when we have problems when we’re asking questions about it but, I don’t see where, I don’t know if Mr. Schmierer got that from the meeting that he came here or something. Maybe he said something to someone out in the audience or something, I don’t know.

Don Ward stated, well, he does kind of but he should.

Director Weaver stated, I had a complaint similar to that and that was at a meeting of the Board of Zoning Appeals that I received that complaint that he tried to, was trying to run the meetings and…

President Anderson asked, was that from the Commissioners or was that from the…

Director Weaver stated, no, outside of the Commissioners, outside of the Commissioners, it was…

President Anderson asked, I mean the Commissioners of the Board of Zoning Appeals, Commissioners or someone else out of that?

Director Weaver stated, it was outside of that.

President Anderson asked, so it was probably through the actual Commissioners themselves too, is that…?

Director Weaver stated, no it was general public that….

President Anderson stated, okay, general public, so they probably had complaints from someone at the…

Director Weaver stated, it was at the hearing was CDC, Gary and he felt like he persuaded the Board to vote the way that they voted and I did get that comment more than once.

Don Ward stated, well, some of the things that come up that are legal does influence the way that the Board votes but, that’s the way that it is.

Gary Barbour stated, in my opinion of what he did at that meeting was, he laid out what his interpretation of what the Ordinance was.

Rick Raderstorf stated, I don’t sit in on the Commissioners meetings but, I know that the Drainage Board meetings, rarely does George say a word unless he is asked and I’m not so sure that’s the right way either.

Don Ward stated, but, that’s the way that some attorneys do.

Rick Raderstorf stated, yes, but, I don’t consider that the right way.

Gary Barbour stated, but, with CDC it was a 3 to 2 vote, 5 members so I don’t know how you can say that he persuaded the Board members because, it was just almost down the middle, it could have gone either way.

Director Weaver stated, yes, it could have.

President Anderson stated, if you see one of the Commissioners you might ask them what their problem is before next month but, I don’t know who we would go out and find to work for that kind of money.

David Scott stated, the problem is if they are not going to provide the funds for it, what are you going to do?

Director Weaver stated, well, then I suppose that we can let the Commissioners know that with the salary, not that they can change it but they could try to help us get it changed.

Rick Raderstorf stated, they would have more influence on the Council…

Director Weaver stated, right, than we would.

President Anderson stated, I told Bud that you don’t pay him anything.

Director Weaver stated, I know that with my experiences with Attorney Altman, he normally, I don’t have any problems with Attorney Altman. I know that sometimes I do have to push him to get some things done, once I turn them over to him he doesn’t always act on them.

President Anderson asked, who is the Commissioners lawyer?

Director Weaver stated, Sherri Pherson.

President Anderson stated, and sometimes it’s hard to get things from her according to some people…

Director Weaver stated, I have heard that too.

David Scott stated, the Commissioners would hire the lawyer, we wouldn’t but….

President Anderson stated, no, we appoint the lawyer.

Director Weaver stated, we appoint our own because we have a different lawyer than they do. Our lawyer represents us.

Jay Clawson stated, we have never had anyone other than Attorney Altman express interest in ever being the lawyer, I never had a lawyer in Monticello come up and say, I would really like to be your lawyer.

Director Weaver stated, I’ve not either.

President Anderson stated, but I’m going to talk to the other Commissioners too and see what their feelings are on it. See if he has a say in it and might ask them too on that but, I don’t know where they’re going to come up with someone, we can’t go out…

Don Ward stated, when you have a new guy that’s going to take him a while….

President Anderson stated, to get use to what’s going on.

Director Weaver stated, that’s right.

Don Ward stated, familiarized with all of the rules and regulations.

President Anderson stated, at 2,000 and something a year.

Don Ward stated, well, I use to know the Area Plan Attorney in Huntington and he was considered very, very good and he told me that it was a lot more complicated than what meets the eye.

Director Weaver stated, Area Plan is very complicated.

Don Ward stated, it took a lot of work for him to get…

President Anderson stated, that’s what I’m saying.

Director Weaver stated, I think our County Commissioners is learning that too, I really do. I think that our County Council is too. I think that they had the impression that the Area Plan was not, was a very simple office and didn’t see the complexities that we have.

Jay Clawson stated, well, this is much harder than what I have to do as far as my City Council’s duties. The only thing that is really hard about our City Council is once a year doing budgets then as far as a lot of the small Ordinances that we do…

Director Weaver stated, and it’s getting harder.

Charlie Mellon stated, you’re talking about what the new, is about the CDC building and Beach building, that’s all really all that I heard, I wasn’t to the meeting on the CDC building but, I was on this Beach building.

President Anderson asked, do you think that Attorney Altman oversteps his boundaries in here at times?

Charlie Mellon stated, I thought that he did a little bit, I will have to be contrary to him, he set more than what I would have thought that he was indicating how to vote.

President Anderson stated, okay.

Charlie Mellon stated, now I will tell you that and I have talked to a couple of Board members on that Board and they felt the same way but, both of the Boards should have something to do with that I would think, the penal Board too. Of course he is on both of them and Scott is now too. There is a lot of funny things going on I can’t see why one Commissioners is going to run the whole works, now that may be a small issue but, the other two don’t have anything to say. I have been to all of those meetings and Jay is probably right. I have been to a lot of the Council meetings and they have it real well, their attorney, they ask their attorney opinions and their settled and with the Surveyor on the Drainage Board the same thing happens.

Rick Raderstorf stated, for Attorney Altman I think that my opinion when you have an attorney working for a Board it’s his job to keep you out of trouble more so than to get you out of it once your in it, at least that’s what I think.

Charlie Mellon stated, I don’t think that anyone knew it too much. I think that the biggest issue is the Beach issue, this down here is going to be settled but, the Beach, I don’t know, the 20th it comes up I think on the Appeal Board, it’s suppose to come up I think.

Director Weaver stated, it’s suppose to come up on the 20th but, the complainant has now filed a lawsuit against the Board of Zoning Appeals too so we have a pending lawsuit now too.

A Board member asked, Switzer’s?

President Anderson asked, what is their complaint?

Director Weaver stated, Switzer’s yes. The complaint is about how close it is to the property line the fact that they did not get their permits or go through the special exception for the height prior to putting it up. The setbacks on the side is not an issue, Attorney Altman and I have discussed it, it’s all zoned business down there, there is no side setback when it’s a business area. Now if their house was zoned residential it would be different but it’s zoned business…

Don Ward asked, those cottages are zoned business too?

Director Weaver stated, the cottage is zoned business.

Don Ward stated, they have owned that for a century now…

Director Weaver stated, that whole area once you turn on Indiana Beach Road it’s all business, all of it.

Jay Clawson stated, I mean what do they expect right there on the….

Don Ward stated, well see they have owned that 50, 60 or 70 years. George Spencer owned that.

Charlie Mellon stated, it looks to me like a lot of that stuff out there is Beach is grandfathered in…

Director Weaver stated, yes.

Don Ward stated, probably.

Charlie Mellon stated, years ago, why did they come up with those modern rules to go against that?

Don Ward stated, George Spencer owned that and he is the grandfather to those girls. He owned it, it could be 60 or 70 years.

President Anderson asked, is this on a new ride that they are complaining?

Director Weaver stated, yes.

Don Ward stated, he’s been dead for about 50 years.

President Anderson stated, if you guys get a chance, I would talk to the Commissioners and see what their feelings really are on that, I don’t know.

Don Ward stated, if we are going to change attorney’s we would have to do some advertising for it.

President Anderson stated, we don’t have time to do that right now.

Don Ward stated, I don’t think that we’re going to get any takers either.

Steve Fisher asked, I mean are you dealing with someone with a personality or an incompetence…

President Anderson stated, I think that one of them got mad and sick the other two on everyone.

Steve Fisher stated, that’s seems to be more of it than anything, if you make someone mad it’s either addressed through…

Don Ward stated, I don’t think that we can jump every time someone gets mad.

President Anderson stated, I don’t think that we can either.

Jay Clawson stated, I wasn’t at the meeting for CDC but it seems like he did not lead the Board to vote against from what someone was complaining. To me he had led the Board to think that it should have been passed, to vote to lead them to vote against it. This person wanted it done he said that he didn’t specifically tell the people to vote against it that it shouldn’t have been voted for of course I wasn’t there this is just what that lady thought.

Gary Barbour stated, the majority of the people that were at that meeting were against it.

Director Weaver stated, yes they were.

Jay Clawson stated, they had something come up this has been one of the first year that I was in when they out in Woodhaven Addition when they put the assisted living thing, Bill Novak remember when that case came through…

Director Weaver stated, vaguely…

Jay Clawson stated, it was a big to do and all of the neighbors came up and said oh, you’re going to ruin our residential neighborhood by these people being here. They called Katie Wolfe and it just kind of, and I thought even with this that with this ADC and all of these things that you couldn’t say no, you couldn’t have a group home like that. I figured that there was more far reaching laws on that, I figured that if they wanted it they pretty much…

Director Weaver stated, that’s probably why CDC filed lawsuit against us.

Jay Clawson stated, but that one happened in the neighborhood and never since gone out of business because, I think that Medicare or whatever didn’t fund, quit funding those types of things. It wasn’t lucrative for the guy to be in any more and that’s like the other CDC though, the ones in town I do work for them sometimes for CDC and those people were really never a problem. They moved one into a, out on Riley Road in Delphi and people at one time thought oh my God, that was at the time when the nicer part of town and they though oh, there goes the property values. Then people have never had any troubles in the houses next to them and I have never had any problem with the people that are in that, it’s like having 6 more kids in your neighborhood.

Director Weaver stated, the homes that they have now, if you didn’t know that they were a CDC home, you wouldn’t know any different.

Jay Clawson stated, they don’t hang out outside like the girls that are in this big home right next to Jerry. They don’t hang out outside, most of the time if they are home they’re inside doing things or maybe go in the back yard and that’s just the reason that they want to get rid of that one because it’s not compliant with anyone that has any kind of disability.

Don Ward asked, what is the difference between that and the one down by us, there are a lot of people, we see a lot of people walking to work, walking up and down the allies and the streets and stuff. I don’t know where they are all going, I think that most of them work. is that different than, do they have like an apartment?

Jay Clawson stated, well, they have some that can actually live by themselves.

Director Weaver asked, you’re talking about the apartment building?

Don Ward stated, yes.

Jay Clawson stated, and these people all have someone consistently, you know, there is someone there, 24 hours.

Don Ward stated, oh, I see, they are monitored more.

Jay Clawson stated, yes.

Director Weaver stated, yes.

Jay Clawson stated, they are able to, it’s kind of like a half way house because some of those kids will eventually will move over to an apartment like that once their skills become…

Don Ward stated, there is a guy that walks around there like he is blind. I would of thought that they would have let him be in one, he has a stick like a blind man. I don’t know whether he’s blind or not but, he only walks a short distance and then he stops and goes another 25’ and then stops and keeps doing that.

President Anderson stated, I suppose that we should talk to Attorney Altman too.

Director Weaver stated, yes, Attorney Altman is on vacation.

President Anderson asked, when does he get back?

Director Weaver stated, some time this week, towards the end of the week.

President Anderson asked, do you guys have some ideas?

Greg Bossaer asked, is there a way that you can put something in for, so that letters like that you either doctor it or did you have a chance…

President Anderson asked, Director Weaver did you read that, you read the letter before it was sent out didn’t you?

Director Weaver stated, yes, my name is on it my name is on that letter.

Jay Clawson stated, that doesn’t sound to me that it was abusive at all.

Don Ward asked, we would do that to anyone else would we not?

President Anderson stated, the way that Bud was sounded like he chewed him out or something, I don’t know.

Jay Clawson asked, what did Indiana Beach do?

Director Weaver stated, well, we’re still in the process…

Don Ward asked, Tom Spackman or young Tom?

Director Weaver stated, young Tom, we’re still in the process, well he went to he Commissioners when he got the letter.

Don Ward asked, were you there?

Jay Clawson asked, did he go to the Commissioners before he came to you?

Director Weaver stated, I don’t know that.

President Anderson stated, you send them a letter if you want you want something, you can’t let them guess and come in when they want to but, of course that was over some lady complaining, complaints that you got…

Director Weaver stated, complaint that was filed…

President Anderson stated, and you have to act on it…

Director Weaver stated, yes, we had to act on it.

President Anderson stated, act on her complaint.

Director Weaver stated, if we had not, they would have filed against us for not acting on it.

President Anderson stated, the Commissioners biggest deal was the 10 days, you have to have something done in 10 days but, it doesn’t say in there that they had to have it completed in 10 days.

Dave Scott stated, said that they had to file get something started…

Don Ward stated, the problem is they have to figure out all of the paperwork. Over the years, Indiana Beach has expanded and if you ever work out there you will see that they don’t really have a plat where everything is. They don’t know where the wiring is, they don’t know where the foundations are, and they don’t know a thing and every time that they do anything…

Rick Raderstorf stated, so they have to put the piling in for that ride and they said that ever time that they dug a hole almost ever hole they hit water lines, electric lines or something.

Don Ward stated, so the don’t know where everything is so it takes them quite a while to do anything so this happened over a long period of time and it’s a mess. You would not only need a plat of the plan view but, you would need a cross section so that you could see what layer you’re in because it’s all different layers.

Don Ward asked, when did they do that?

Jay Clawson stated, when they lowered the lake years ago.

Director Weaver asked, no one has any comments about Attorney Altman claim that he turned in?

Jay Clawson stated, I don’t think that Attorney Altman, any of the meetings that I have been that we need to get rid of him. Next year if they want to, because we have to vote January, first meeting on lawyer, we have not looked at anyone else. I think next year if the Commissioners are dissatisfied still we can advertise in November or something because we have to have legal notice I’m sure, I’m not sure how that works.

Director Weaver stated, I’m not sure either.

Jay Clawson stated, I mean legal notice for a lot of different things but, at least notify any attorney in the county that is interested. Attorney Altman has been doing this for a long time, breaking in a new attorney…

Director Weaver stated, he’s the only attorney that we have had.

Don Ward asked, that’s one reason why I don’t’ think that they are going to get anyone. The initial break in for the first of the year or so is going to be tough on a lawyer, he’s going to spend a lot of hours to learn it and it’s a whole new field and who is going to do it for that kind of money. You pay them 50,000 a year, yes they are going to get an interest in a hurry, even 20,000 or 25,000 someone will get interested but, 2,800 a year?

President Anderson stated, he got about 6,000.

Don Ward stated, it’s not going to happen.

President Anderson stated, I really don’t think that he gets that far out of line by what he tells us.

Don Ward stated, we could have you count the ballots and that would remove him from one little part of it.

Director Weaver stated, but, he can’t change what the ballots show, I mean he can’t, that’s all in black and white.

The meeting adjourned.

Respectfully submitted,

Donald W. Ward, Secretary

White County Area Plan Commission

Diann Weaver, Director

White County Area Plan Commission