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The White County Area Plan Commission met Monday, February 11, 2002, at 7:30 p.m. in the Commissioners’ Meeting Room, Second Floor, County Building, Monticello, Indiana.

Members attending were: Jay Clawson, Gary Barbour, David Rosenbarger, Charles Anderson, Don Ward, Gregory Bossaer, Dennis Sterrett. Also attending were Attorney Altman and Director Weaver.

Visitors Attending were: Charles & Deloris Martin and Chad Sellmer (Herald Journal).

The meeting was called to order by President Charles Anderson and roll call was taken. Don Ward made a motion to dispense with reading and approve the minutes of the January 14, 2002 meeting. Motion was seconded by Jay Clawson and carried unanimously.

****

#779 Charles W. & Deloris D. Martin; Requesting to rezone from A-1 to B-2 on 142’ x 148’ out of 4.43 Acres. The property is located in Liberty Township at 6488 N. State Road 39.

President Anderson asked, do we have anyone here representing that request? Do you want to state your name for the record?

Charles Martin stated, Charles and Deloris Martin.

President Anderson asked, do we have anyone here in the audience, I don’t think so, that had any questions about that request? We did get a letter…

Director Weaver stated, we did get a letter from a neighbor.

President Anderson stated, Mabel Moore and you have that in your amended notes there, if you want to read it. Then if you have any questions for the Martins, you can ask questions. That’s the only thing that I can see here that we have.

Director Weaver stated, yes. Don Ward did call today and wanted to know where this was going on their property so, we did get a drawing too that has some yellow markings on it. We’re just trying to show you where, what they are rezoning on the property.

President Anderson asked, do you want to state for the record, what you’re intending to do with that property, do you want to make any statement about that?

Charles Martin stated, all we want to do with it is we simply have, building trailers for sale and a few lawnmowers.

President Anderson asked, how long have you had it for sale there like that?

Deloris Martin stated, about 3 or 4 years.

Charles Martin stated, 4 years, yes.

President Anderson asked, so you were selling them there before we even, Liberty Township came in…

Deloris Martin stated, we have been selling them there since we’ve moved there and we just want to make our property comply with what we’re doing.

Charles Martin stated, Liberty Township was before that, I think.

President Anderson asked, before they…

Jay Clawson stated, yes, before they moved the thing into that area.

President Anderson asked, so you’re trying, you’re actually grandfathered…

Attorney Altman stated, no.

Charles Martin stated, no, we’re not grandfathered.

President Anderson asked, it was after the fact?

Jay Clawson stated, yes, after they moved in after Liberty.

Deloris Martin stated, we did come up and ask if we needed a permit or some kind of zoning and they said as long as we just had one sign and we could sell things there like we were.

Director Weaver stated, they had talked to Ray, when Ray was Director and I do know that for a fact that they had.

Charles Martin stated, in order to get a dealers license for venders we would have to pay the whole taxes and all of that on it but, we have to be rezoned commercial to be able to do that.

President Anderson asked, do any of the Commissioners have any questions?

Jay Clawson asked, another question, when we do this, there is an old barn on this property that probably doesn’t comply in any way, shape or form of any kind of commercial codes or anything that is on this, is that barn going to have to be raised…

Deloris Martin stated, the barn has an office.

Charles Martin stated, he’s saying that it doesn’t meet the commercial code.

Jay Clawson stated, right, for it to be taken in, I would like to know a little bit about that, we’re switching over farm buildings to…

President Anderson stated, commercial…

Jay Clawson asked, commercial buildings, they, you know improvements that are done to them or the structure itself might not meet any kind of State Code that they should. What is the precedence on that Attorney Altman?

Attorney Altman asked, when you have a use like that and it’s converted to a different significantly different use there indicating that it’s office now and I don’t know whether they changed it or upgraded it to go to that office even though it isn’t a correct change. I don’t know whether maybe, have you, when you changed it to an office, did you upgrade the electrical?

Deloris Martin stated, no.

Attorney Altman asked, and what did you do?

Charles Martin stated, put a new service in, put a special drop in just for that building and we rewired everything, put a new roof on it.

President Anderson stated, actually, that would be something for our building inspector to check out…

Attorney Altman stated, I think that’s right, the building inspector should check to see…

President Anderson stated, he could give you an idea of whether you’re meeting, he would be able to tell us whether your meeting codes for a commercial building on that. So if I were you, I would table that for tonight and have that done before we vote on it…

Jay Clawson asked, so can we have a report back from Dave?

Director Weaver stated, we can request that, yes.

Jay Clawson stated, before we make a, see that we’re not, I don’t know how structurally sound, if you’re all of a sudden going to be opening a pole barn up and there’s going to be public on that. There’s some kind of an unsafe situation to that, it would probably be to our advantage to have that report from Dave to make sure before we add that…

Attorney Altman stated, it could be it could be approved appropriately…

Jay Clawson stated, and a couple other things with this being changed over, are they still going to be, with that business being a business, are they going to have to have their own drives in and out off of this…

Attorney Altman stated, I think that it should…

Jay Clawson asked, instead of coming off of a residential property, I mean if they are going to run it like a business it should be set up as, the plans really don’t show us anything persay how they are changing. They are trying to go to residential and saying that this is business and still keep it pretty much residential without seeing extra, depending on how that’s going to be done. Plus how can we do this without subdividing it?

Attorney Altman stated, it would be possible to do this without subdividing, since they’re not changing the ownership…

Jay Clawson stated, right…

Attorney Altman asked, that is not the issue, the only thing being is whether they have enough square footage to amend to be a B-2 and I gather that they do, is that right Director Weaver?

Director Weaver stated, yes, it does meet the size requirements…

Attorney Altman stated, so as long as they keep the ownership that way, I think that it’s appropriate to do that without subdividing. The other thing that I hear your saying, we certainly need to make sure that the access would be consistent with B-2, as well as the building.

President Anderson asked, does your lane come in between the house and the barn, is that where it comes in at?

Deloris Martin stated, our driveway, the driveway is right on the edge of the 148’ and it wouldn’t be that hard to widen the driveway over into that…

President Anderson asked, and use that as…

Deloris Martin stated, yes, because, it goes right over into that.

President Anderson asked, so you could make it a driveway and a separate driveway too…

Deloris Martin stated, it could be twice as wide as what it is, we could use the same entrance only it could be just wider.

Attorney Altman asked, I really believe that the best thing would be to table this until and get this information to us have our building inspector go out and then come back with a report, is that something that you believe that you would like to do?

Deloris Martin stated, yes.

Attorney Altman stated, okay, very good, at their request, I believe that this matter is…

President Anderson stated, it would probably be better for you to show how access is going to be.

Attorney Altman stated, and access.

President Anderson stated, maybe even a little diagram where it’s going to be.

Charles Martin asked, I have a question on the legal description, it’s not rezoning the whole property?

Director Weaver stated, no.

President Anderson stated, just rezoning the business area.

Charles Martin asked, I couldn’t plot that legal description there now, just out in the middle of the property or do we need to have a definite legal description?

Director Weaver stated, well…

Attorney Altman stated, I say that you surely do.

President Anderson stated, so, it would be better to have someone survey it.

Don Ward stated, I think that it shows in here, I didn’t see this, they told me that there was a sketch but, I didn’t see the sketch but, I wondered where it was but, I think that you have a distance of 204.3 over to the…

Director Weaver stated, look with your pictures Don…

Don Ward stated, North side.

Director Weaver stated, with your pictures that you got tonight there’s on the back side of the, no that’s not the one…

Don Ward asked, on the photograph?

Director Weaver stated, there’s a copy of a survey there.

Don Ward stated, oh, okay…

Director Weaver stated, look on the back side of the one that has the yellow markings on it, flip that over, there you go.

Don Ward stated, oh, alright.

Jay Clawson stated, it doesn’t have a legal description on the back of it…

There was discussion among the Board.

Attorney Altman stated, where the barn is and where the ground is.

Jay Clawson stated, the whole property should be on here surveyed out where they are going to put it before we act on it.

President Anderson stated, where they access.

Attorney Altman stated, do you understand what we’re asking for? Okay, we want you to know so that you can come back the next time…

Deloris Martin stated, we need to get a legal description of that full parcel….

Attorney Altman asked, yes, and showing the roads where the improvements are and have it inspected by our building inspector and get a report back here. Jay, is there anything else that I’m not voicing?

Jay Clawson stated, I think that would give Don and Denny that we have a legal description show it on there…

Attorney Altman stated, and the access too…

Jay Clawson stated, access and have it all shown on a plat, that way when it’s recorded they know exactly what they already have on it.

Attorney Altman asked, is there anything else that you, the Board…

Don Ward stated, I’m not sure that he would be allowed to use that mark.

Attorney Altman stated, well that’s what…

Don Ward stated, the State…

Deloris Martin asked, what does the State require?

Don Ward stated, well, once it goes into business then, it’s a certain type of occupancy and it has to meet those regulations of the occupancy. What I don’t know is, whether or not you have to upgrade right now…

Deloris Martin stated, we have upgraded it…

Don Ward stated, yes but, it has to be upgraded to meet State standards.

Deloris Martin asked, do you have any of their requirements?

Don Ward stated, I think that Dave has…

President Anderson stated, Dave would have them…

Attorney Altman asked, but, again, the building inspector can give you an idea as well as us an idea, what needs to be done if anything, okay?

Deloris Martin asked, now do I have to get in touch with all of these people?

President Anderson stated, well, Dave has his own office there…

Director Weaver stated, if you come into our office first thing in the morning you can get with Dave he’s only here from 8:00 to 8:30 in the morning so, you need to come in first thing to see him.

Attorney Altman stated, of course he goes on the road to inspect so come in tomorrow morning.

Deloris Martin stated, if I can’t make tomorrow, is he in there…

Director Weaver stated, he’s in every morning from 8:00 to 8:30.

Attorney Altman stated, Mr. President, the applicant has requested this be tabled, I would suggest that we certainly do that and table it to the next meeting, same time, same place right here.

President Anderson stated, okay.

Director Weaver stated, we need to get your sign changed and you will need to put that back up.

Jay Clawson asked, do they have to get a hold of State and make sure that that they will allow a business…

Director Weaver asked, have you…

Jay Clawson asked, I would like to know a little, have you guys…

Director Weaver stated, have you been in touch with Mark at the State Highway Department…

Jay Clawson stated, because, if you’re actually going to designate this as a real business persay what are they asking for, are they asking for deceleration lanes or anything like that?

Charles Martin stated, 52,000 dollars, they can forget that…

Jay Clawson stated, well, I don’t know what they are going to ask, I mean we hate to do that and then find out that they are going to require you to do that, it might just be worth asking for your protection.

Charles Martin asked, are they from Monticello?

Jay Clawson stated, they are from Monticello.

Deloris Martin asked, is there one in Monticello?

Jay Clawson stated, yes, on the other side of the new bridge, going South out of town.

Deloris Martin stated, oh, okay.

Director Weaver stated, if you come in I can give you his name and phone number.

****

#269 Frank Blaser; Requesting primary and secondary approval of a 1 lot subdivision to be known as Heritage Lakeview Subdivision on 0.692 of an acre. The property is located in Monon Township at 7106 N. Lakewood Drive.

President Anderson stated, I don’t think that we have anyone here for that.

Director Weaver stated, I don’t think that we do either.

President Anderson stated, so that’s going to have to be tabled.

A Board member asked, do we need to vote Attorney Altman?

President Anderson asked, do you want to vote to table it?

Attorney Altman stated, it is tabled by operation of the law where there is no applicant.

****

President Anderson asked, do we have any business?

Director Weaver stated, I just gave you a copy of Attorney Altman’s claims, does anyone see any problems with that?

Jay Clawson stated, no. I have a question as soon as you get done with that.

Director Weaver stated, I had one other thing but, I can not think right now what it was so go ahead.

Jay Clawson stated, I know that you don’t like for me ask you this thing but, the cabinet shop that opened by us, okay, had a sign that was out of compliance before. It was a small sign that had like a little “T” bar on there it is sitting in the State right-of-way now. It is changed and they moved the sign it use to be at Rohrman's Auto we approved a sign there several years ago they moved it across, took the old sign completely down and put a new sign down, you can’t…

Director Weaver stated, they didn’t take the post down…

Jay Clawson stated, yes they did, they cut it off, welded a top on it…

Director Weaver stated, that’s not what we were told.

Jay Clawson stated, well, that’s not what happened, they cut it off, welded a flat bracket bolted a new one down.

Director Weaver stated, we have some problems with that property already because, I don’t think that he ever finalized…

Jay Clawson stated, something that dangerous, he’s running an extension card across concrete and people are driving over it. I'm afraid that someone is going to, it’s going to get rain out there at night and he’s going to have that thing on and someone is going to get electrocuted on it. I was walking back in the rain the other night from the grocery store and here is this plug lying in water. It’s like you know, and it’s true someone could very easily get electrical that way it’s really not to code and if the signs taken down by law, it has to have a variance if it’s going to be put back out in the right-of-way.

Director Weaver stated, yes, we were told that the pole never came down.

Don Ward stated, the State Highway were…

Jay Clawson stated, about that much of the pole did come down, if they happen fast enough nothing happens.

Don Ward stated, yes, they don’t see it.

President Anderson asked, is there any other business?

Director Weaver stated, the other thing that I wanted to mention I had a meeting with the DNR about 3 weeks ago and we have been requested to update our Flood Ordinance so, we are in the process of doing that and I think…

President Anderson asked, where they allow it?

Director Weaver stated, pardon?

President Anderson stated, are we going to allow it?

Director Weaver stated, we’re not going to allow it, it’s just some minor changes to the Ordinance is all. We need to update it plus the fact the old Ordinance states that the Area Plan Director is the one that issues the building permits which, I no longer do so we need to change that so we are in the process of upgrading that.

Don Ward stated, you know we have changed the zoning before on buildings with offices in it why, out here we rezoned that…

Director Weaver stated, Dedaker’s…

Don Ward stated, that second plot for the insurance man…

Attorney Altman stated, we required him to, he wasn’t ahead of the time though, we required that, that office be in compliance with Dedaker's. He had the building up but, the actual area that he was going to put his office in, he hadn’t done that so yes, the building was there but, the building was in compliance like this one is…

Don Ward stated, but, we don’t know that, but, the State would require the whole building to be…

Attorney Altman stated, no, I mean without a business, it’s in compliance Don, that’s all I mean and Dedaker's was too without variances but, when he went through that we required that it be inspected, the office.

Don Ward stated, I don’t remember, do you remember?

Director Weaver stated, I don’t remember, I know that the building was there.

Don Ward stated, that’s not the only one, there are other ones in the same situation, maybe we did…

Attorney Altman stated, we didn’t have a building inspector too.

Don Ward stated, you’re right.

Jay Clawson stated, any time that we change, if it was barring land and he had to build any improvements on there but, when you’re taking property that has pre-structures on there you have to take into consideration well, are these actually built for…

President Anderson stated, commercial buildings…

Jay Clawson stated, right commercial buildings.

Don Ward stated, the moment that we change it from one to the other the occupancy of that building changes.

Don Ward stated, right.

David Scott stated, right.

Don Ward stated, and that’s when it has to be upgraded to State specifications, not just ours.

Jay Clawson stated, right before he can actually start running the business out of it.

Don Ward stated, and we haven’t done that before on anyone.

President Anderson stated, you have to start somewhere.

Jay Clawson stated, what can happen a lot of times is, like I was talking with Director Weaver the other day. I have a business property and I want to build a pole barn on it and like I said, I might as well go to all of the trouble having a State release on this building before, even if I don’t need it that way. If I decide later on that I want to open this as a building because, like I said the State won’t approve it. I’m not going to tear the thing down, you know and then build another one it might be worth a 6 week wait.

Don Ward stated, well what they’ll make you do is upgrade it.

Jay Clawson stated, yes but that could be far more costly than building the thing right to begin with.

Attorney Altman stated, sure.

Don Ward stated, it could be nasty. That’s something that we need to watch in the future, you really hit that on the head tonight because, we have done that before and we didn’t really think about it, it’s not our problem it’s their problem.

Attorney Altman stated, it hasn’t been old farm barns before…

Don Ward stated, right.

Attorney Altman stated, that really wasn’t at all set up for a business.

Jay Clawson stated, but, now that we have, but, we need to find out from Dave. Maybe one of us could ask is what really, even though he will look at it and see the condition of the building what really does the State ask to be done on pole structures like that?

Don Ward stated, he will have to declare what the occupancy is going to be. It could be warehousing or you know, you can go to a low grade of building but, you can still, got to match what they say and I think that, actually if it’s over 30,000 cubic feet they have to…

Director Weaver asked, do they have to have an office?

Attorney Altman stated, I think that they probably would…

Director Weaver stated, I think that they would have an office, yes they do, that’s exactly why they are going to through the rezoning because, I would not sign a BMV release for them because, it was not properly zoned.

Dennis Sterrett asked, has anyone rezoned anything back to agricultural from business?

Jay Clawson stated, yes.

President Anderson stated, yes, a few times.

Director Weaver stated, not often but, yes.

Don Ward stated, we had problems a couple of times, a few years ago a guy promised out here a temporary rezone from agricultural to industry…

A Board member asked, that was the seed corn place wasn’t it, 1 acre.

Don Ward stated, he promised in less than a year he would zone it back.

Jay Clawson asked, did we zone it industrial?

Don Ward stated, we zoned it for him because, he said that he was going to move to Carroll County and he said that he would do it and he never did. We have no way of enforcing it because, there is no temporary thing. We should have got it in writing.

Attorney Altman asked, is there anything else?

Jay Clawson asked, are we adjourned?

Attorney Altman stated, we are adjourned.

The meeting adjourned.

Respectfully submitted,

Donald W. Ward, Secretary

White County Area Plan Commission

Diann Weaver, Director

White County Area Plan Commission