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The White County Area Plan Commission met Monday, July 8, 2002, at 7:30 p.m. in the Commissioners’ Meeting Room, Second Floor, County Building, Monticello, Indiana.

Members attending were: Jay Clawson, Gary Barbour, David Rosenbarger, Charles Anderson, David Scott, Stephen Fisher, Don Ward, Scott Kyburz, Dennis Sterrett. Also attending was Director Weaver.

Visitors Attending were: Charles R. Mellon, Rita Cameron, John Briney, Don Newmar, Richard M. Weidner, Elden Gutwein, Dan Kirk, Gerald McQuirt and Ben Stefaniak.

The meeting was called to order by President Charles Anderson and roll call was taken. There were no minutes available to be approved.

****

#791 Monon Community Church Inc.; Requesting to rezone from A-1 to R-1 on 10.749 acres and 0.231 of an acre. The property is located in Monon Township on the North side State Road 16, just East of North White Elementary School.

President Anderson asked, do we have anybody here representing that request? Do you want to state your name?

John Briney stated, my name is John Briney, I’m treasurer of the church.

President Anderson asked, does have any questions about this request at all, from the audience at all? Do the Commissioners have any questions about the request? If not, let’s go ahead and vote.

Director Weaver stated, this was tabled last month because, they change the request from an R-2 to an R-1.

President Anderson asked, and that was so that, someone had a question about the R-2 zoning?

Director Weaver stated, right.

With no further discussion the Board voted.

The results of the vote were as follows: 9 affirmative and 0 negative. This will be presented to the County Commissioners for their action.

President Anderson asked, this will go to the County Commissioners?

Director Weaver stated, this will go onto, yes, the County Commissioners. Monday morning, it will be here this room, 8:30 in the morning.

John Briney asked, do we need to be here?

Director Weaver stated, you should be yes.

President Anderson stated, they are the ones that have the final say. I would be here to likelihood is you wouldn’t have any trouble on it but, in case if you did, I would be here.

****

#796 Bronislaw & Martha Stefaniak; Requesting to rezone from R-2 to B-1 on Lot #7 and Lot #8 in Hughes Addition. The property is located in the City of Monticello at 104 & 106 W. St. Mary’s Avenue and 606 N. Main Street.

President Anderson asked, anybody here representing this request? Would you like to state your name?

Ben Stefaniak stated, yes, I’m Ben Stefaniak, I own this property. This property had been zoned B-1 at one time, now I want to a property on the corner of St. Mary’s and Main Street. Well, tonight, I was led to believe that if I changed that zoning to R-2, chances are that I could put a building on there so I changed that. I spent a lot of money changing it, surveying it and then I was denied putting a building on it. So since I’m denied putting a building on there I just want to go back to B-1, which it was originally for about 15 years.

President Anderson asked, does anyone in the audience have any questions about that request at all? Do the Commissioners have any questions?

Don Ward asked, how many buildings are on there now, one?

Ben Stefaniak stated, well there is one on there at St. Mary’s, and duplex and there is a building on…

Don Ward asked, on lot 8?

Ben Stefaniak stated, yes, on Main Street.

Director Weaver stated, yes, these are two lots, it’s the corner lot and then the one to the North of it so there is a duplex on the corner lot and then there is what is used now for a home on the lot to the North of it. At one time that property did have a business on it but, it does not at this time.

Steve Fisher asked, two residences on a B-1?

Director Weaver stated, a B-1 does not allow a residence any longer.

Steve Fisher asked, so if it goes to B-1 then he won’t be able to use the duplex?

Director Weaver stated, it would be grand fathered structure if it was removed or destroyed, it could not be replaced.

Steve Fisher asked, do you understand that?

Ben Stefaniak asked, what was that?

Steve Fisher stated, if it goes back to the B-1, if something happened to the structure, you would not be able to use that duplex again, you won’t be able to rebuild it, rent it out, anything.

Ben Stefaniak asked, excuse me, what do you mean if something happened to it, I don’t understand that?

Steve Fisher stated, if it burnt, if someone ran their car into it…

Ben Stefaniak asked, I couldn’t rebuild it?

President Anderson asked, you could repair it couldn’t you?

Steve Fisher asked, yes you could repair it, well to a certain percentage right?

Director Weaver stated, to a certain extent, correct.

President Anderson stated, if it was totaled, you couldn’t rebuild it…

Jay Clawson stated, as a residence.

President Anderson asked, as a residence but you could rebuild, you could put a business in there couldn’t you?

Ben Stefaniak stated, I see no problem with that.

Steve Fisher stated, all right, I thought that you should know.

Ben Stefaniak stated, thank you. I just want it back to the way it was, we have a Real Estate office on Main Street there, ample parking. Like I said, I was lead to believe, that if I went back to residential, I could put a building on that corner but, it couldn’t be rezoned or anything because it didn’t meet the perimeters and it’s an empty lot there so I figured I want to go back to what it was originally, B-1.

President Anderson asked, so the structure is not is not being, there is a structure that is not being used at all on that too?

Ben Stefaniak stated, it’s rented out, yes

Director Weaver stated, there are residences on both lots. That’s what Mr. Fisher is trying to explain to you, when you rezoned B-1 previously that was acceptable under our old Ordinance, we have changed Ordinance’s and that is no longer acceptable.

Ben Stefaniak stated, so if it burns down, I can’t, it will just sit there empty? Yes, that will be fine, that will be fine. I think that is pretty good thinking, there shouldn’t be anything built on it if burns down, is that right Mr. Fisher?

Steve Fisher stated, you can build business back. You could put a business there but, you wouldn’t be able to put a residence there because you will be zoned business.

Ben Stefaniak stated, oh that’s fine, that’s very good restructuring of the...

President Anderson asked, do we have any other questions?

Steve Fisher stated, they have to be together too, does he know about those lots will have to be joined together right?

Director Weaver stated, no, I have not explained that to him, no I have not.

Steve Fisher stated, those lots have to remain together too, because of the size.

Ben Stefaniak stated, exactly, that’s why I was turned down, I couldn’t build on that corner, I wanted to put a house there I was turned down on that and the house…

Jay Clawson stated, what he is saying is, for this to remain, for this to be zoned as a business, 7 and 8 have to, because they don’t meet the requirements alone, like lot #7 is not big enough to be a freestanding business lot or lot #8. You have to sell those two lots at the same time when you sell those if you are going to rezone this back to business to keep it to meet the requirements.

Ben Stefaniak stated, that’s fine, yes, that’s a good idea.

Jay Clawson asked, do you see what I’m saying Ben, if you sold lot #8 away there is no parking, you need the parking on lot #7 and the size to create it big enough to make it….

Ben Stefaniak stated, yes, I understand that, that’s fine.

President Anderson asked, do any of the other Commissioners have any questions? If not I say let’s go ahead and vote.

With no further discussion the Board voted.

The results of the voter were announced as follows: 8 affirmative and 0 negative. This will be presented to the City of Monticello for their action. The actual vote results were as follows: 8 affirmative and 1 negative.

Director Weaver stated, it does receive a favorable recommendation and will be forwarded on to the City Council. Should be at their meeting Monday, correct? What time is that Jay?

Jay Clawson asked, 7:00, Ben did you hear that?

Ben Stefaniak asked, do I have to be here?

Director Weaver stated, City Council.

Vice President Clawson stated, at the City Council Meeting. It moves to the City Council.

President Anderson, stated, they have the final say on that.

Jay Clawson stated, yes, they do have the final say, next Monday at 7:00.

Ben Stefaniak stated, yep, okay, thank you.

****

#797 Rita C. & James A. Cameron; Requesting to rezone from L-1 to B-2 on Lots #3, #4, #5 and #6 in Beauty Beach Addition. The property is located at 2715 S. Airport Road also known as Big Timber Lodge Inc.

President Anderson stated, and this is pretty much to put the resort in compliance in Ordinance.

Director Weaver stated, yes.

President Anderson asked, is anyone here representing this? Would you like to state your name or the record.

Rita Cameron stated, Rita Cameron.

President Anderson asked, do we have anyone here with any questions about that request at all?

Director Weaver asked, we did receive a letter, did the Board receive a copy of that?

Jay Clawson stated, no.

Don Ward stated, no.

President Anderson stated, right here, do you want to state your name and come forward.

Gerald McQuint asked, I am on Airport Road, I understand that is going to be, become a business, zoning for business? Is that correct?

Rita Cameron stated, it is a business.

Jay Clawson stated, it is a business.

Gerald McQuint stated, yes but, I mean, when I say a business, can that be, can there be taverns or anything there or is it…

President Anderson stated, it can be anything that is under B-1 or B-2…

Don Ward stated, B-2 zoning…

President Anderson asked, which do you want to read the, what all is allowed in a B-2? To become a tavern you would have to get some kind of a State Alcoholic Beverage License.

Gerald McQuint stated, well, I didn’t know, when you said business, how much business could go in, that’s my question.

Director Weaver stated, a B-2 will allow an animal hospital, antique shops, appliance sales and service, art galleries, art supply store, auction barn, auto body painting, auto body repairing, auto glass shops, auto truck landfill service, auto and truck sales, auto seat repair, automobile accessory store, automobile laundry, automobile service and repair, automobile service station, auto trucks auctions, auto truck tire dealers, bait shop, bakeries…

Mr. McQuint stated, I’m not in favor of…

Director Weaver stated, many things.

Mr. McQuint stated, having a business out there on Airport Road that is my only concern.

President Anderson asked, does any body else, have any questions?

Richard Weidner stated, yes, my name is Richard Weidner, I live at 2803 Airport Road and I understand that this is to get Jim into compliance so he can take care of his buildings should something happen to them, as I was explained over at the Area Plan Office. My concern is not of Jim maintaining the business, my concerns is that the fact that for example if he sells the business then the zoning goes with it and any of these business could be put in by somebody. Not only us property owners but, this Board would have no control over what we put in there as long as they complied with the requirements. So I think it’s unwise to think about having a business right in the middle of a formally residential area that really has no other purpose than what it now has. I understand, I’m not against the Cameron’s, they have run that place well and we don’t want to take anything away from them. I only live two doors away but, I just don’t think that it is wise to place a business in the middle of all of those residential lots. I think that we were talking over there about, wouldn’t it be nice if Jim could maintain his business and have whatever zoning he needed to do that and then maybe it wouldn’t pass on as a, if he sold it, it wouldn’t pass on. It would revert back to a L-1 or, if no different business would be put in there.

Gerald McQuint stated, I agree. I don’t have an objection to the way that Jim and Rita are running the place, I have an objection to what might happen down the line. You loose control and if you know the area up there, you know that it can’t handle a good deal of, there is not enough infrastructure, the road is poor.

President Anderson stated, of course it wouldn’t have much traffic for a business anyway, there’s not a whole lot of business that he will make it down in there.

Richard Weidner stated, but, if you had a business it would grow in traffic, I think that would be our….

President Anderson stated, yes but, that wouldn’t be…

Richard Weidner stated, whatever someone else could dream up….

President Anderson stated, yes, but no one is going to dream up something that wouldn’t make it. No one is going to go into business to look, money either and if you’re in an area that wouldn’t really support much of a business back there other than a bait shop.

Richard Weidner stated, there is a lot of business that don’t depend on….

President Anderson stated, I know what you mean.

Richard Weidner stated, traffic exposure.

President Anderson asked, do we have any other questions?

Rita Cameron stated, I would like to say something. The reason that I’m here is not to change, or to do anything different it’s because of the sewers. Each one of my cottages is costing me what you’re paying for one house and when my cottage goes down…the money that I spend on sewers, I’m out of business and I just gave the county all of this money for sewers and that’s the only reason that I want to rezone. So if something happens to a building, I don’t have a sewer there that I’m paying for that is already paid for as you know and can’t rebuild. That is the only reason that I’m here, I mean it’s been, I have been grand fathered in forever, that place has been there way, probably before you have been there and it’s just grand fathered in. I just want to make sure that I can rebuild one of those cottages if they fall down or if they burn down and I have already spent the money on the sewers.

Richard Weidner stated, this is what I said, I think that you should have zoning so that you can operate…

Rita Cameron stated, well, I asked, them what kind of zoning to go for and that’s what Area Plan told me.

President Anderson stated, what we can do if it was going to be all right with you we can zone this as a business but, if it sold for anything other than a resort, then we can revert it back to the L-1.

Richard Weidner stated, that would be good.

Jay Clawson stated, this would be a perfect example with the commitments that we have been using, to do it as a, if it needs to be the B-2 to be able to individually rebuild, put it as a commitment as long as it’s ran as the resort, like we have been doing with these others. As long as it is ran as a resort but, if it ever sold with the aspects of going into any other kind of, you know and that is closed, the zoning would revert back to a L-1.

President Anderson asked, would everybody else in the audience agree with that?

Gerald McQuint stated, that would be great.

President Anderson asked, or have any problem with that? You would be fine with that too?

Rita Cameron stated, that would be great, yes, I wouldn’t want it to be anything else.

President Anderson stated, do you want to state your name.

Elden Gutwein stated, yes, Elden Gutwein and I live in Bay Point there and I’m kind of with Bud here, and everybody, the others are opposed to this but, after I hear that there may be put certain restrictions put on this if its properly written and I would like to have part in approving that but, it is defiantly that infrastructure out there, the County really needs to upgrade that road and the whole infrastructure. I know that is a different issue but, there’s not room to be putting business in and having a lot of traffic. If the concern is mainly just because, just to replace…

Rita Cameron stated, right…

Elden Gutwein asked, something that gets, that burns down and that’s what I understand, if something burns down and you can’t replace it if you’re residential, is that right?

President Anderson stated, well the way that she is zoned, it’s grand fathered with everything that she has, if it burns down then she cannot rebuild it as it is.

Elden Gutwein stated, I put that, you know if it was written up to where that would be the stipulation….

President Anderson stated, well what we will do, is have our Lawyer work on a commitment like that and we can table this now, probably and then run it through the next meeting and we can set it up that way.

Eldon Gutwein stated, I’m okay with that.

President Anderson stated, then we will have her get a hold of…

Director Weaver stated, then we will have the commitment then at the next meeting.

Jay Clawson stated, Director Weaver you need to make it known that she is, the commitment is at her expense.

Director Weaver stated, right, Rita the way that works, you have that drawn up, our Attorney will, you can have it drawn up by any Attorney. Our Attorney has to approve it, okay, the cost of our Attorney review that or composing that is at your expense.

Rita Cameron asked, it’s what?

Director Weaver stated, it’s at your expense.

Rita Cameron asked, I have to pay for your Attorney to draw that up?

Director Weaver stated, for your commitment.

Jay Clawson stated, or you have your own Attorney…

President Anderson stated, you can have your own attorney, or whatever you want to do.

Steve Fisher stated, but, if he reviews it, it will still…

Rita Cameron asked, well you’re going to write it out and then I have to take it to my attorney?

Director Weaver stated, yes, you go to your attorney and have your attorney write it up.

Rita Cameron asked, what am I suppose to write up then, I mean why are you leaving up to me?

Director Weaver stated, we can give you some assistance but, it’s your responsibility to have it written up.

Rita Cameron asked, and then I bring it to you and you approve it or not approve it, is that what you’re telling me?

Director Weaver stated, we will bring it back to the next meeting for them to approve, right.

Elden Gutwein asked, so the way that I understand it then, it would be written up that it would be rezoned strictly for the purpose of only replacing existing buildings when they disappear?

.

President Anderson stated, he can take of, sell it, to also, as also what it is, as that type of business but, it can’t go to another type of business. I mean it can remain that business forever and she can sell it at that but, it can’t go into a gas station or…

Eldon Gutwein stated, retail

President Anderson stated, or auto Mechanic shop or anything like that.

Rita Cameron asked, what about if I stayed residential and sold off each lot, am I able to build a house on one of those lots?

Director Weaver stated, I don’t believe you have enough room to do that Rita.

Rita Cameron stated, I have enough, I have four lots, one lot is a ravine, the other three lots are buildable.

Director Weaver stated, you would have to…

Rita Cameron asked, how much property do I need to sell them off as, because right now I have all three residential lots, correct, four with the ravine. Is that correct? I’m zoned residential correct?

Director Weaver stated, yes.

Rita Cameron stated, and each lot is individual …

Jay Clawson asked, but, is each house set to where there off setting directly on an individual lot, or are they just kind of placed anywhere…

Rita Cameron stated, well no, I have the house and two cottages on one lot and then cottages on the other side in the middle of something and that’s my three individual lots…

President Anderson stated, but, then you wouldn’t be able to, you would have to…

Rita Cameron asked, what would I have to do to sell my lots off?

President Anderson stated, you wouldn’t be able to…

Rita Cameron asked, I would have to sell it as one piece?

President Anderson stated, I don’t know.

Steve Fisher stated, if it were business…

Rita Cameron asked, how much room do I need for a house?

Director Weaver stated, you would have to have 7,500 square feet for each home.

Rita Cameron asked, and how wide would it have to be?

Director Weaver stated, with the minimum width of 60’.

Rita Cameron asked, okay, so then I could sell it off as, if I wanted to, I mean other than worrying about old cottages burning down, correct.

Director Weaver stated, you would probably have to subdivide it and go through a subdivision, I am assuming, I can’t tell you that for sure.

Rita Cameron stated, they are already all separate lots.

Director Weaver stated, but, I don’t think the way that she’s wanting to do it, it would go with those lots, I don’t think the lots would stay as is.

Richard Weidner asked, my knowledge of the subdivision they are 50’ lots aren’t they?

Rita Cameron stated, that’s what I thought, and I am...

Richard Weidner stated, and that they have to be 60’ lots, she could get three lots out of them.

Rita Cameron stated, right, that’s what I’m telling the, that’s what I’m asking them.

Director Weaver stated, it depends on how many units and how many lots that you’re looking at.

President Anderson asked, and what have you got.

Rita Cameron stated, I’m talking about one residential home on each lot, not cottages.

David Rosenbarger stated, in other words, tearing the cottages down.

President Anderson stated, tearing down cottages down themselves…

Director Weaver asked, as the lots sit now?

Rita Cameron stated, yes.

Director Weaver stated, I see what you’re saying.

Steve Fisher asked, yes, but, if we make a commitment, is she being left as R-2 or is she being zoned as business?

Director Weaver stated, if we do a commitment she will zoned as B-2 business, yes,

Rita Cameron stated, right, if I want that business would I have to sell that as one piece?

Director Weaver stated, yes.

President Anderson stated, later on if you wanted revert back to residential…

Rita Cameron asked, I would come back to you right?

Director Weaver stated, that’s right.

Rita Cameron stated, I mean I don’t want to sell off my lots but, I’m just asking all of these questions now that I’m here.

Jay Clawson asked, when is Attorney Altman going to be back?

Director Weaver stated, later this week.

President Anderson stated, I would get a hold of Attorney Altman and he can tell you what you should have in it, if you want to use Attorney Altman, our lawyer or use your own lawyer but…

Director Weaver stated, it is at your expense.

Jay Clawson stated, Jerry Altman..

Director Weaver stated, Jerry Altman is our Attorney.

Rita Cameron stated, okay.

President Anderson stated, and then we could have that here at the next meeting and you guys are more than welcome….

Rita Cameron asked, and if I go to my own Attorney, I need to tell him what? That I just, what do I tell my attorney?

Director Weaver stated, he can call and consult with Attorney Altman and discuss it with Attorney Altman or he can call me and I can talk to…

Don Ward stated, talk to Director Weaver and talk to Attorney Altman.

Rita Cameron stated, okay.

President Anderson stated, and then you guys are welcome to have a copy of that but, it would be, you would have to get it through the office and then we will have another meeting, you have to come back to another meeting.

Director Weaver asked, I do have a question for the Board, does the Board want to limit the number of units on the property in this commitment, or, right now she has a main home and 5 rental units.

President Anderson asked, on how many..

Rita Cameron stated, and that’s what I am paying on sewers.

President Anderson asked, is that what you want to maintain on that?

Rita Cameron stated, yes, yes I just want to make sure if something happens, I don’t have to throw my store money away.

Jay Clawson stated, because she only has three lots, I don’t think it needs to be anymore, limited to the existing number of structures.

Rita Cameron stated, I have four lots, one is part of a ravine.

Director Weaver stated, I will read this letter we received in the office to the Board. The letter from Dale Fisher was read out loud to the Board members and the audience members.

President Anderson stated, so really we’ve addressed that too are we going to leave at the number of units you’ve got, plus your house and if it will maintain that. Even if it they sold, and they wanted to something different, it reverts right back to residential anyway and they can’t put a business on it

Rita Cameron stated, right.

President Anderson stated, so we’re going to table that one and see it next month.


Rita Cameron stated, and that’s what I need to do is tell my lawyer that as long as I own it, that...

President Anderson stated, well, you can sell it as what it is…

Don Ward stated, as a lodge.

Rita Cameron stated, but…

President Anderson asked, and you want to maintain the, you’ve got a house and 5 other rentals on it?

Rita Cameron stated, right.

President Anderson asked, do you want to maintain as is?

Rita Cameron stated, right as not to be sold for a garage.

Jay Clawson stated, you should call Director Weaver and she will fill you in.

Rita Cameron stated, okay.

President Anderson asked, do you guys have any other questions? So next on the agenda would be business. You guys don’t have to pay for it if you don’t want…

Rita Cameron asked, do I have to come back?

President Anderson stated, yes, next month, if you get your commitment done though.

Director Weaver stated, Rita I will not be in tomorrow.

Rita Cameron asked, okay, do I have to keep my sign up now or…

Director Weaver stated, yes, keep it up

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President Anderson asked, so, do we have any new business, any old business any business at all?

Director Weaver stated, I think you have with your pictures tonight, I gave you copies of Mr. Altman’s claims for the last month, I think that it’s for the month of June. Are there any questions on any of that? Thompson, Walker that is with Indiana Beach, Babka that is a height on a garage that was being pursued thought the Board of Zoning Appeals. Maudlin is a situation where we have someone doing a business on a piece of property. I think we’ve pretty well gotten that taken care of, with letters from Mr. Altman. Mary Rynard that was with the Board of Zoning Appeals that was variance. It was denied and the structure was not removed and taken care of and we have pursued that, and I do believe that’s been taken care of also and CDC, that should be about our final bill on that CDC matter, because that has been resolved. I have also sent you a copy of the budget as I submitted it to the Auditors Office to go to the County Council in August. Our hearing I believe is the 8th of August, that’s all I have. There is not a lot of changes on that budget, the only thing I did put on there, Greg Bossaer had said something to me about a plat committee, so I did add some funds in there for that, if we want to pursue doing that.

 

President Anderson asked, any of the Commissioners have any questions or business that we want to discuss for anything? If not, do I hear a motion to adjourn?

Don Ward made a motion to adjourn.

Dave Scott seconded the motion.

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The meeting adjourned.

Respectfully submitted,

Donald W. Ward, Secretary

White County Area Plan Commission

Diann Weaver, Director

White County Area Plan Commission