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The White County Area Plan Commission met Tuesday, November 12, 2002, at 7:30 p.m. in the Commissioners’ Meeting Room, Second Floor, County Building, Monticello, Indiana.

Members attending were: Jay Clawson, Gary Barbour, David Rosenbarger, Charles Anderson, David Scott, Don Ward, Scott Kyburz, Dennis Sterrett. Also attending were Attorney Altman and Director Weaver.

Visitors Attending were: Douglas McGill, Glen Stockment, Michael Cosgray, Daniel Zbinden, Lyn & Connie Heath, Ralph Zarse, David Zarse, Lettia Gifford, Wayne & Sue Long, Herbert Dahlenburg, Dale Kelly and John E. Frey

The meeting was called to order by President Charles Anderson and roll call was taken. No minutes were available to approve.

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#803 Daniel J. Zbinden; Requesting to rezone from A-1 to L-1 on .277 of an acre. The property is located West of Buffalo at 8133 N. West Shafer Drive.

President Anderson asked, do we have anyone here representing that request? Do you want to state your name for the record?

Daniel Zbinden stated, Daniel Zbinden.

President Anderson asked, do the Commissioners have any questions about that request at all? Is he on the lake?

Director Weaver asked, yes, he’s, I don’t know, is it the lake there or is it more of a river?

Daniel Zbinden stated, river, it’s back in, off of the lake.

Jay Clawson stated, below the bridge.

President Anderson asked, he meets all of the requirements of that zoning? Do the Commissioners have any questions? Does anyone in the audience have any questions about this request?

Attorney Altman asked, Director Weaver, I presume what you said, it’s a more appropriate zoning for the size, explain what you mean by that. Why does this or do we just have a lot of the lots that should be zoned this way out in an A-1 and Mr. Zbinden just asked for it, how did we come to this?

Director Weaver stated, well, this adjacent to, it’s right behind, on the line property right beside it is already zoned L-1, the property on the other side is zoned agricultural. I think when the original zoning maps were made, they just didn’t put residential, the lake residential lines over far enough to include his property.

Attorney Altman asked, so it’s…

Director Weaver stated, it is a small residential lot, it’s not an agricultural use lot.

President Anderson asked, do they have a house on it now?

Director Weaver asked, there is currently a mobile home I think, wasn’t that a mobile home?

President Anderson asked, do you want to build on this lot? If there are no other questions, I say let’s go ahead and vote.

With no further discussion the Board voted.

The results of the vote were as follows: 8 affirmative and 0 negative. This will be presented to the County Commissioners for their action.

Attorney Altman asked, next Monday morning right?

Director Weaver stated, yes.

Attorney Altman stated, at 8:30 in the morning for their final say with a positive recommendation, they have the final say.

Daniel Zbinden stated, thank you.

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#804 Michael D. & Deborah K. Cosgray; Requesting to rezone from A-1 to B-2 on 1.171 acres. The property is North of Idaville at 12740 E. 600 N.

President Anderson asked, do we have anyone here representing this request? Do you want to state your name?

Michael Cosgray stated, Mike Cosgray.

President Anderson asked, do the Commissioners have any questions about that request?

Jay Clawson asked, yes, he wants to have a nursery, that won’t fit inside “A”?

Director Weaver stated, no, it won’t. The Ordinance requires that it be in either a B-2 zoning with a special exception or an I-1, which is light industrial, or an I-2, which is heavy industrial.

Attorney Altman asked, so he has to have a special exception as well as this?

Director Weaver stated, yes he does and he already has that special exception filed.

Attorney Altman stated, I understand.

Jay Clawson asked, by, we had one earlier this year where someone wanted to convert farm property to business due and they had existing buildings that weren’t really commercial buildings on that property, how do we handle…

Director Weaver stated, he does not have existing buildings on this property. He has a State Release already, to construct a building. He has gone through the proper procedure for a commercial building.

Jay Clawson stated, okay, well for, I didn’t look today, it shows on the…

David Rosenbarger stated, yes, it shows a little barn there.

Jay Clawson stated, on our picture, there is existing structures maybe their not…

Director Weaver stated, I believe that is a post structure.

Jay Clawson asked, do you want to comment on that?

Michael Cosgray stated, there are no buildings on it no, I agree with him, I thought that it was agricultural but, once we got to checking we have to go through all of this.

President Anderson asked, do we have anyone in the audience with any questions about this request? Any of the Commissioners have any questions? Pretty much all you want is a nursery out there, are you going to build a building for it?

Michael Cosgray stated, a green house.

President Anderson asked, a green house for a business?

Michael Cosgray stated, yes.

President Anderson stated, if there are no other questions, I say let’s go ahead and vote.

With no further discussion the Board voted.

The results of the vote were as follows: 8 affirmative and 0 negative. This will be presented to the County Commissioners for their action.

Attorney Altman stated, it will be forwarded to the County Commissioners with a positive recommendation and that will also be next Monday morning at 8:30 in the morning, right here and they have the final say.

Michael Cosgray stated, okay.

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#272 Wayne Long; Requesting approval of a 4 lot subdivision to be known as Longbriar Addition – Part 2 on 4.240 Acres. The property is located in Liberty Township on the Southwest corner of County Road 775 North and Longbriar Court. Tabled from October 15, 2002 agenda.

Director Weaver stated, we’ve had this tabled because, they were wanting to ask for primary and secondary approval at one meeting.

President Anderson asked, do we have anyone representing that request? Do you want to state your name?

Wayne Long stated, Wayne Long, my wife Sue.

President Anderson asked, so this is going for primary and secondary approval?

Director Weaver stated, yes.

President Anderson asked, do the Commissioners have any questions about this request?

Director Weaver stated, we have had neighbors come in with concerns regarding this property. I don’t know if they are here tonight or not.

President Anderson asked, does anyone in the audience have any questions?

Jay Clawson stated, this is for the Board and everything, going back to the last meeting, regards to the subdivision in Brookston, where they had a release from Drainage Board. I was talking with Bob Wrede who is an excavator and even if, he was telling me, even if a property has a release on the Drainage Board, they still need, if it’s not being served by any kind of sewer system, the properties on these lots need to have access to an 8” tile I believe, Denny, you might…

Dennis Sterrett stated, I don’t think that’s the Drainage Board issue.

Jay Clawson stated, well, he said for any lot to be a sellable lot, for them to be able to hook a septic system to it, it has to have accessibility to a tile. A lot of these it shows here, tiles on it, there needs to be some kind of easement granted in these so people can actually hook in on through these other lots into that tile. He was saying that they could, they haven’t ran into that problem yet but, they are foreseeing that at times they may run into that problem where there’s been a subdivision and the people can’t on the second or third lot won’t be able to unless the people will allow it be, able to access tying into a tile. Do you see a problem with that Attorney Altman?

Attorney Altman stated, they certainly need that.

Jay Clawson stated, and I hadn’t thought about that and I wasn’t that far up on what our Drainage Board details but, he said that’s a minimum even if they give it a waiver but, there needs to be access to tiling on, something that we need to think about when we’re looking at subdivisions.

Director Weaver asked, are you meaning with, on the subdivision that we’re dealing with now, or for them to access tile that maybe on someone else’s property.

Jay Clawson stated, if you’re subdividing off 5 acres, it needs to be able to have some sort of tile for the septic systems especially, on a lot of farm ground for a lot of these septic systems to work properly. He’s just worried that we’re going to run into a part where people are going to have unbuildable lots.

Director Weaver stated, the reason that I ask is because, I do ask for easements to be on their subdivisions for utilities, drainage whatever needs to be there.

Jay Clawson stated, right.

Director Weaver stated, so they, on the subdivision that we are dealing with, it has been requested that there on easements on this subdivision but, where they go once they leave the subdivision then, I do not know.

Jay Clawson stated, I would like to have some more information on that drainage whether it is through the Commissioners or if Denny can bring us up to speed.

Dennis Sterrett stated, I thought that was an Area Plan issue, not a Drainage Board issue.

Jay Clawson stated, okay but, if there is not, I…

David Scott asked, like on this here, where it’s got a 10’ easement, is that for any utility or is that for a particular, specific utility?

A Board member stated, any.

Dennis Sterrett asked, you’re talking about a perimeter tile…

Jay Clawson asked, see it’s got a tile here and here but there just needs to be some sort of way when we’re looking at these, that these people, that says we have a tile on the South of two properties that they have a way of getting to that. By using a straight utility easement they are able to dig in and use that Attorney Altman, if they have a utility easement on there?

Don Ward stated, they would have to have an outlet.

Jay Clawson stated, yes.

Attorney Altman stated, see, I’m just looking to see if there is anything, I’m not sure whether utility for sure would be drainage as well.

Jay Clawson stated, and I’m not sure if with improvements in the lot, if maybe they shouldn’t when they develop the lots that we make them put tile up to each lot.

Attorney Altman stated, it’s certainly a health issue in every lot and every…

Jay Clawson stated, yes…

Attorney Altman asked, everywhere that would be harder of a policing power of the Subdivision Ordinance is, shall we say part of the reason of why it is that you have the health taken care of if you’re on the septic system yes. Looking at this one, I’m not sure, I see that there is a drainage easement that touches all of the lots except lot #17 and Don was talking about well, you can’t put utility, Don, do you think that would cover this that would allow him to have the, a drainage out of that?

Don Ward stated, well, they have enough, they have a tile in the Northwest corner that 8” tile along the road, on County Road 775 North. So, they could drain up to that. See what I mean?

Jay Clawson stated, yes.

Attorney Altman stated, no I don’t see what you mean.

Don Ward stated, right up in the corner.

Director Weaver stated, Attorney Altman, you’re looking at the secondary plat…

Don Ward stated, oh you’re not looking at that right plat.

Director Weaver stated, there should be another plat in there.

Attorney Altman stated, that’s why, okay, yes I do see the tile, yes.

Don Ward stated, so they have a way out there.

Attorney Altman asked, they certainly would have. Is the tile a county tile sir?

Wayne Long stated, yes, it is.

Attorney Altman stated, okay.

Wayne Long stated, there is some question about that but, I was required by the county to put that tile in but, I’m not sure it shows on any maps, as a county map but, I was assessed for that and we did pay for that tile.

Attorney Altman asked, okay, does it go further than it shows on here or does it just stop there about, say…

Wayne Long stated, it goes all of the way to the lake sir.

Attorney Altman stated, okay.

Wayne Long stated, and then on the South end is an open ditch, two lots and then the lot, the lot on the corner, it would be on the Eastern side, I’m not sure what number that is, I haven’t seen the map…

Jay Clawson stated, 18…

Wayne Long stated, is it 18, there is a county road on all 3 sides of these. Now whether or not that would be specific or not I don’t know.

Don Ward asked, does the county maintain Longbriar Court?

Wayne Long stated, no.

Don Ward asked, that’s private?

Wayne Long stated, no, it was, back in 1997 I developed that and the Commissioners approved the plat that Jim Milligan drew up. I put a 50’ road in there and clear all of the way back but that’s only a 30’ road that goes back to Longbriar Court.

Don Ward asked, so the county won’t maintain it?

Wayne Long stated, no.

Don Ward asked, it would have been nice if you would have just added 10 more feet on that side and made 40’ out of that.

Wayne Long stated, if I would have done that, I wouldn’t have had enough land to…

Don Ward stated, that’s what I figured, you don’t have the acreage because, I see you do have 20’ on 775 North when you were asking on the North side…

Wayne Long stated, yes.

Don Ward stated, and you made that a 35’ road.

Wayne Long stated, yes.

Don Ward asked, so the other side gave it 5’ and you would have, the county could maintain that road. Do they maintain 775 North now?

Wayne Long stated, yes, they do, they will maintain that road if there is students there that are picked up by school bus, they will at least plow it and they will grade it. It’s all gravel from 775 on why it’s, those two roads on each side are both gravel and they do grade those.

David Scott asked, the easements don’t affect the setbacks does it. The utility easement?

Director Weaver stated, no.

David Scott asked, the easement could be in the setback that doesn’t change the setback in it? See, I have a question, whether you’re talking about running a perimeter drain or a tile, whether 10’ is not enough easement to excavate on…

Don Ward stated, you’re right, it isn’t.

Director Weaver stated, minimum of how many feet…

David Scott stated, well 20’ or 25’ I would guess would be the minimum if it doesn’t change the setback, it really wouldn’t…

Don Ward stated, it wouldn’t matter.

David Scott stated, it wouldn’t matter.

Attorney Altman stated, it would certainly be a lot better if that were 25’ especially again it doesn’t take…

David Scott stated, especially if you have to have a couple other utilities, gas lines or a something else buried in there then it gets…

Don Ward stated, then you’re going to have more where you have gas lines and eventually water lines, you’re going to have a lot of stuff in those, sewer lines going in there and you can use the road for some of it.

David Scott stated, yes, and in this particular one, you might be able to put a spoil over on…

Wayne Long stated, for whatever it’s worth, there are no plans to build on those lots, and there are no plans to sell those lots. I have 4 children and I realize that I’m not going to be around here forever, someone else may have different plans I know that but, we would hope that sewers would come through there before anything would ever be done with those. I have no plans to do anything with it except you know grandfather at least a 1-acre parcel basically.

Attorney Altman asked, but you don’t want us to restrict you that way so we have to go, look through the longer view of that.

Wayne Long stated, I understand that.

Attorney Altman asked, I would say the simplest thing would be, if he would do, expand his 10’ utility easement to 25’ and in his deed of dedication indicate that, that would also be drainage easement, utility and drainage easement that he would modify that. I would see that would meet the concerns that you’re talking about Jay don’t you think so?

Jay Clawson stated, I would think so.

Attorney Altman asked, does the Board understand what I’m suggesting? Do you understand what I’m suggesting?

Wayne Long stated, yes, sure, sure I do.

Attorney Altman stated, so if you would have…

President Anderson asked, we can do both, primary and secondary contingent on…

Attorney Altman stated, yes, that’s exactly what I’m proposing. So we would be amending your subdivision you would have to have your plat amended.

Wayne Long stated, I understand.

Attorney Altman stated, to, that would be 25’ and that, it be utility and drainage easement and show that on your deed of dedication.

Wayne Long asked, it’s 10’ now, is that right?

Attorney Altman stated, yes.

Jay Clawson stated, yes.

Attorney Altman stated, just add 15’more to it.

Wayne Long stated, 15’, no problem.

Attorney Altman asked, okay, I don’t think that we have any concerns then right?

President Anderson asked, does anyone in the audience have any questions about this request at all? On the primary we only have that, it will go on the secondary won’t it?

Don Ward asked, how do we vote on the primary?

Attorney Altman stated, I certainly would note that on the primary, yes, I think that it’s appropriate.

David Scott asked, we just note that down?

Attorney Altman stated, I would, yes. It’s always helpful to have it on there.

Wayne Long asked, Director Weaver, may I have a plat of that so I know what I’m talking about when I talk to the engineer?

There was discussion between Director Weaver and Wayne Long.

With no further discussion the Board voted.

The Primary Approval Request for a 4 lot subdivision to be known as Longbriar Addition – Part 2 located in Liberty Township, was approved by a vote of 8 to 0, based on a finding of fact that the Standards of the Subdivision Control Ordinance have been met.

Attorney Altman asked, subject to a granting of an additional 15’ utility easement on the North edge of this subdivision on what is that 475 is that right?

Wayne Long stated, 775…

David Rosenbarger stated, 775…

Attorney Altman stated, 775, sorry, and that easement be a utility and drainage easement and this is…

Wayne Long asked,…..

Jay Clawson stated, yes.

Dennis Sterrett stated, you need it on…

David Rosenbarger stated, I would put it all of the way around.

Attorney Altman stated, all of the way around, okay, on all of the way around.

David Rosenbarger stated, make sure that it’s 10’ all of the way around.

Don Ward stated, yes.

Attorney Altman stated, yes, all of the way around and that be modified and part of the secondary ballot also.

Wayne Long asked, so it’s received primary ballot?

Attorney Altman asked, yes. Director Weaver, on secondary ballot, is this ready for a secondary approval?

Director Weaver stated, to the best of my knowledge, yes.

Attorney Altman asked, no improvements to be installed on the subdivision?

Director Weaver stated, not that I’m aware of.

With no further discussion the Board voted.

The Secondary Approval request for a subdivision to be known as Longbriar Addition – Part 2 located in Liberty Township, was approved by a vote of 8 to 0, based on a finding of fact that the Standards of the Subdivision Control Ordinance have been met, primary approval has been granted and the Subdivision is in compliance.

Attorney Altman stated, again subject to the requirement with the 10’ easement all around this subdivision be changed to a 25’ utility and drainage easement and shown on the plat accordingly. Are there any questions, sir?

Wayne Long stated, no.

Attorney Altman stated, okay, thank you very much.

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#274 Robert A. Mathew; Requesting approval of a 1 lot subdivision to be known as Little Pine #2 on 1.157 Acres. The property is located Southeast of Brookston on the South side of Creekside Court. Tabled from October 15, 2002 meeting.

Attorney Altman stated, I don’t believe that we have anyone here.

Director Weaver stated, no, they had tabled this request this afternoon.

President Anderson stated, this one will be tabled again.

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#276 Peter S. Rosi; Requesting approval of a 2 lot subdivision to be known as Rosi Addition. The property is located at 609 E. Fourth Street in the Town of Brookston.

President Anderson asked, is there anyone here representing that request? Is there a Peter S. Rosi or anyone here? If not I would say that one is tabled.

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#277 Glen L. Stockment; Requesting approval of a 2 lot subdivision to be known as Shady Acres. The property is located West of Wolcott on the Northeast corner of Division Road and County Road 1200 W.

President Anderson asked, do we have anyone here representing that request?

Glen Stockment stated, yes, Mr. Chairman.

President Anderson stated, say your name.

Glen Stockment stated, Glen L. Stockment.

President Anderson asked, do the Commissioners have any questions about this request?

Don Ward asked, the Barn is not on lot 2, is that correct, not part of lot 2?

Glen Stockment stated, that is correct, it’s gone, they tore it down.

President Anderson asked, are there any other questions?

Jay Clawson stated, again…

Attorney Altman stated, yes, I wonder if this should be utility and easement.

Jay Clawson asked, how, where and how close is the nearest county tile to…

Attorney Altman asked, do you know Mr. Stockment, where the county tile is on this?

Glen Stockment stated, each lot is tiled and the closest county tile is approximately 2,000’ to the South of the property and there’s a tile coming to each lot and it closed to a main about 1,000’, 1,200’ to the West and that main close to the county tile.

Jay Clawson asked, on your final plat, is there any way that you can have that shown on there so when they sell it, should that be shown on it?

Attorney Altman stated, I think it would be good answer but…

Jay Clawson stated, that way when someone buys it, when they tie into it they will know where it is.

John Fry stated, well, this hasn’t been to the Drainage Board yet.

Jay Clawson asked, so this is just primary approval?

Director Weaver stated, primary only.

Attorney Altman stated, that is an excellent time to give him what you’re, so when you get Drainage Board approval on this and before you bring it back on final show that then get it out mapped on here and where it is on these lots like you said and I think that would address all of our concerns on it.

David Rosenbarger asked, one of the things that now, that’s a good point but your saying those are private tiles that are on there right? They are going to a county tile…

Glen Stockment stated, yes.

David Rosenbarger asked, your draining part of someone’s field?

Glen Stockment stated, yes, my field off.

David Rosenbarger asked, does that need to be as an easement to keep future landowners from cutting his tile into and blocking it if it’s not shown as an easement?

Glen Stockment stated, I don’t know that I understand sir.

David Rosenbarger stated, say if you would say that, that tile comes through here and maybe drains to the East of it and maybe it’s going West, should that show that as an easement of that tile draining the field because if it doesn’t show it as an easement that tile becomes theirs underneath them and they can block it.

Attorney Altman stated, no, they can’t.

Jay Clawson stated, no.

Attorney Altman stated, drainage law wouldn’t allow that. Drainage law wouldn’t allow that.

David Rosenbarger asked, okay, even though it’s a private tile…

Attorney Altman stated, even if it’s a private tile.

David Rosenbarger stated, that’s what my concern was…

Attorney Altman stated, yes, often times I, in farming there is a tile that goes through and you can add, you can hook to it but, you cannot block it.

David Rosenbarger stated, you can’t block it.

Attorney Altman stated, in any way.

David Rosenbarger stated, okay so, that’s what I was wondering about.

Attorney Altman stated, I don’t think that’s going to be the problem I think showing it on there and the size, the size of the tile and where it is, I think is all that needs to be and any of the other private tile and might not hurt if you said which county tile it goes to Mr. Stockment, that’s always nice to know since you know that, add that to it and it wouldn’t take a dime more.

Glen Stockment asked, full description?

Attorney Altman stated, yes, please.

Glen Stockment stated, okay.

Don Ward asked, are the tile in an area in the lot where a house could be built over it?

Glen Stockment stated, knowing the general public, yes, would be the correct answer. Is it likely to be, probably not, the tile will end at the East side of, it does end at the East side of this lot.

Attorney Altman asked, Lot #2, Mr. Stockment?

Glen Stockment stated, yes.

Attorney Altman stated, okay.

Don Ward stated,. …easement and connect on that one.

Attorney Altman stated, and I would certainly make the, drainage and utility easement on your plat and then everyone knows that they have the right to use that to get their lot drained for septics and that sort of thing.

Glen Stockment stated, okay.

Attorney Altman asked, it makes for a better subdivision. Are there any other concerns?

Don Ward stated, you don’t want to interpret that as an open ditch though.

Attorney Altman stated, oh, no, no and there is where it doesn’t hurt to have all of your restrictions just what it’s for. That it isn’t an open ditch, it’s just to, that it’s the drainage, underground drainage and that’s all. You’re right, don’t want to get too far, some people do as you said about the public.

President Anderson asked, so does that have to have that for the secondary or the final plat on that or does that have to be…

Attorney Altman stated, I would certainly put it on here.

President Anderson asked, that tile that goes through here doesn’t get into the building site itself?

Glen Stockment stated, yes, it is.

President Anderson asked, it is?

Glen Stockment stated, yes, it runs clear to the road 1100.

Don Ward asked, do you know what size it is?

Glen Stockment stated, yes, 4”, I installed it 8 or 10 years ago.

Don Ward stated, okay, you need to show that, the size of it.

Attorney Altman asked, he knows where it is, he can put it on there real easy, probably a 60 footer, 60’ intervals?

Glen Stockment stated, 70’.

Attorney Altman stated, 70’, okay, so that it’s complying along there, it will work perfect, it will work perfect. That won’t interfere much at all with that building site either one.

With no further discussion the Board voted.

The Primary Approval Request for a 2 lot subdivision to be known as Shady Acres located in Princeton Township, was approved by a vote of 8 to 0, based on a finding of fact that the Standards of the Subdivision Control Ordinance have been met.

 

Attorney Altman stated, granted upon receipt of the addition conditions as required by the Commission and the conditions are, show the size and location of the existing tile to drain the lots. Show the utility easement also as the drainage easement and again, we don’t mind that being restricted but we don’t want a ditch through there and that sort of thing, people don’t have a right to do that but, they need to have the right to have the tile drainage on there. Are there any questions Mr. Stockment?

Glen Stockment stated, I think I comprehend what you’re saying.

John Fry stated, I guess I’m kind of new at this, I have a concern on this. I own a hog feeding facility just down the road from that, I’m kind of concerned whether a building up in that area is going to create a problem or not with my farming operation.

President Anderson asked, how far down the road are you?

John Fry stated, oh, it’s about a quarter of a mile.

Glen Stockment stated, I think that I drew an arrow on this one John, this one is over on 1100.

John Fry asked, this is 1100?

Glen Stockment stated, yes.

John Fry stated, okay, I’m sorry.

President Anderson stated, so it’s the next one then.

John Fry stated, okay.

Director Weaver stated, the one that we were just discussing, Shady Acres, is on…

Glen Stockment asked, oh, this is Shady Acres?

Director Weaver stated, this is Shady Acres that we are dealing with now so, it is on Division Road and County Road 1100 West.

Glen Stockment stated, oh, he’s correct.

John Fry stated, okay.

Director Weaver stated, that’s what I thought.

John Fry stated, I just, I mean I just bought that farm last year and…

President Anderson asked, you already have a confinement area on it?

John Fry stated, yes.

Director Weaver asked, are you in Jasper County?

John Fry stated, I’m in Jasper.

Director Weaver stated, okay.

President Anderson asked, what is it the confined area in animals?

Director Weaver stated, 1,350’.

President Anderson stated, 1,350’…

John Fry stated, just over a quarter of a mile.

Dennis Sterrett stated, it should be 1,340.

Director Weaver asked, it should be 1,340

Dennis Sterrett asked, quarter of a mile?

Director Weaver stated, yes, quarter of a mile sounds right.

Jay Clawson stated, 1,320’, now is that from the edge of his property to this subdivision…

Attorney Altman stated, the problem that, the problem you just said is he is in Jasper County. I don’t think…

Jay Clawson stated, I don’t think that crossing county lines would be, make any difference to the…

Attorney Altman stated, I don’t think that we can restrict the growth or development in Jasper County. In other words, we do have some restriction on size of confined feed lots in White County as it is to the…

Jay Clawson stated, but to say…

David Rosenbarger stated, but the restrictions shouldn’t matter what county he’s in, it’s so many feet from…

Attorney Altman stated, but we can’t restrict what he does in Jasper County.

Director Weaver stated, no but we restrict those in White County.

David Rosenbarger stated, we’re not, we’re restricting what is in White County.

Director Weaver stated, in regards to what is in Jasper County.

Jay Clawson stated, well and water contamination, there is a reason that they gave that amount of minimum…

President Anderson stated, feet…

Jay Clawson stated, feet and if Greg was here he could probably be able to explain it a little bit better. I think that would be anywhere even across the county line. If nothing, I would like to ask Greg, does that mean from an existing structure that is there a quarter of a mile or a quarter of a mile from the property to the person that owns…

Director Weaver asked, I might be able to answer that, if I can read this to you. I haven’t read it yet but I think that it might answer your question. Must be located a minimum distance, now this for a confinement building to go in, okay, must be located a minimum distance 1,320’ from any residence not located on the same tract of land. Construction of a new residence not located on the same tract of land must also be located a minimum of 1,320’ from an existing confinement building and exception to this setback would be a new addition to an existing residence or an existing confinement building. Does that answer your questions?

Jay Clawson stated, again, we’re looking at…

President Anderson asked…confinement building

Director Weaver stated, the building itself.

Jay Clawson stated, we’re looking at him too if he’s built all of the way to one side of his property and he wants to add on to his confinement building which takes him inside this quarter mile limit are we restricting his rights to be able to expanding his operation…

President Anderson stated, because we’re not going to be able to restrict…

Director Weaver stated, we can’t restrict anything that he does.

President Anderson stated, you can’t restrict it because, he’s already there.

David Scott asked, yes, but what if he adds on?

Director Weaver stated, but he’s in Jasper County so we can’t restrict him.

Jay Clawson stated, well, you have to have any more to get any kind of confinement operation, you have to have all kinds of State Permits so I’m sure if they are looking at residential, it would a State Permit wouldn’t care what county you’re in or where you’re at I mean they would just go from the straight 1,300 or whatever their regulation.

David Scott stated, yes, but can he build a house in that subdivision, if it’s within that 1,300 feet…

Director Weaver stated, no.

Glen Stockment stated, I would like to add another factor to it, the farm in question that he is talking about is in violation it was put up and it was not in compliance when they put it in for us and we’ve lived and let live for many, many years. I’m willing to do that still but they have built within closer than that 1,300’ to our residence, we were there first.

Director Weaver stated, the 1,320’ is a White County Rule.

Glen Stockment stated, it’s also State because, the previous owners had to get permission from me to, before they bought the place even.

Director Weaver stated, I thought that the State regulation was similar…

Glen Stockment stated, yes, so technically they are in violation.

Attorney Altman asked, your tract is in the Southwest Quarter, this subdivision, I’m looking on the map here and it’s, right there?

Director Weaver stated, right here, right on the county line.

President Anderson asked, how many feet is it from these lots, do you have any idea exactly how many feet?

John Fry stated, not exactly.

Don Ward asked, is there a quarter of mile between your property line and the county road? Does the county own the road?

John Fry stated, I guess it’s not a quarter of a mile just guessing.

Glen Stockment stated, it is.

Don Ward asked, how far did you build from your East property line?

John Fry asked, pardon me?

Don Ward asked, how far is your hog confinement operation from the East property line of your property?

John Fry stated, I would have to check on that to be sure.

David Scott stated, if that was in that 1,320’ though, it doesn’t matter what we do here, he won’t be able to get a permit to build a house.

David Rosenbarger stated, on these two lots.

David Scott asked, on them, on these two lots if it’s within that 1,320’ is that correct or not?

Director Weaver stated, right, we would have to establish that at the time.

President Anderson stated, and that may have been a violation years ago if he signed off on that.

Glen Stockment stated, no I didn’t sign off, it’s, they are still in violation.

President Anderson asked, do you know anything about that?

John Fry stated, I didn’t know anything about that.

President Anderson asked, who allowed the hog building, you didn’t build it though…

John Fry stated, no sir.

President Anderson asked, it’s something that you acquired?

John Fry stated, yes.

David Rosenbarger asked, if this goes through then someone buys lot 2 and comes in for a building permit, I go out and measure it and make sure it’s from the confinement…

Director Weaver stated, no, it’s up to them…

Jay Clawson stated, the zoning for us to subdivide it and then find out we did some undoable lots, it think that we need to have someone do an exact measurement just to make sure. I mean if it’s longer than that distance, it’s a do point, we have enough room but, if it’s in that then we will have to find out exactly what the regulations because, that’s a strict State Law and in rural subdivisions.

Glen Stockment stated, am I understanding here, the edge of his building to the edge of the house has to be 1,320’, it would be that. It would be slightly in excess of that.

Director Weaver stated, construction of a new residence not located on the same tract of land also has to be located a minimum of 1,320’ from an existing confinement.

Jay Clawson asked, can we make a notation of that and have like Denny, can a Surveyor go out, do you have a wheel that you can actually measure that off to…

Attorney Altman stated, measure it with wheels, shoot a laser…

Director Weaver stated, I was going to say, would it be easier to have a Surveyor…

Don Ward stated, he could shoot it exactly.

Attorney Altman stated, his Surveyor can add that to this plat.

President Anderson asked, so the edge of the building site you don’t think would be closer than 1,320’ from the…

Glen Stockment stated, the building site but, a residence…

President Anderson stated, I mean the building area within that…

Glen Stockment stated, the building area would probably be just slightly past 1,320’.

Director Weaver stated, we would have to go by their setback lines because, it’s a building structure.

Attorney Altman stated, I think that we need to amend our, that they add that to the subdivision plat, that distance.

Jay Clawson stated, we need to know before we do a secondary.

Attorney Altman stated, I think so, yes and it must be more than the quarter of a mile.

President Anderson stated, we have another question here.

Glen Stockment asked, is there anything else that a build up in that agricultural area…

President Anderson stated, someone is going to build they are going to have to expect they are going to smell a little agricultural.

Glen Stockment stated, I would say so too, I just, I mean I have sunk a lot of money into this place, I’m a young kid, I plan on being there for a while, I don’t want to…

President Anderson stated, the problem as he said is where that confined building is, you might want to get with him to find out if there is a real problem. If it had State Permits surely they built it right.

Attorney Altman stated, it certainly has to be approved…

John Fry stated, what were the laws back then…

President Anderson stated… buildings up…

Glen Stockment stated, it was built in about 1972.

Jay Clawson stated, that predates Area Plan…

President Anderson stated, it’s probably grand fathered.

Glen Stockment stated, all that I know is when Five Star bought the property, that they needed a signature from me in order, that they could raise hogs.

Attorney Altman asked, for the record that’s Mr. Stockment talking. I don’t think that you introduced yourself sir, so we can have that on the record.

John Fry stated, my name is John Fry.

Attorney Altman stated, thank you Mr. Fry. Let’s add that to the plat but it must be at least that number of feet to the buildable area.

President Anderson stated…find out what your rights are.

Glen Stockment stated, incidentally I’m probably not planning on doing anything as long as the hog operation is there but, I’m like the previous gentlemen, I would like to get it subdivided, I’m really interested in getting the next one subdivided.

President Anderson asked…if you want to expand your operation you can move it somewhere further out that that?

John Fry stated, yes, I wasn’t worried about building anything anymore, I mean, I’m not planning on building any more hog buildings. The way that things are going, just like to take care of what I have to make sure that everyone is happy.

****

#278 Glen L. Stockment; Requesting approval of a 2 lot subdivision to be known as Prairie View. The property is located Southwest of Wolcott, South of Division Road and on the West side of County Road 1100 W.

President Anderson asked, this one is, through the way isn’t it?

Glen Stockment stated, yes.

President Anderson asked, Mr. Stockment is here representing this request too. Do the Commissioners have any questions about this request?

Jay Clawson asked, are there any other confinements…

Glen Stockment stated, unfortunately about ½ a mile away, there is an abandoned one.

President Anderson asked, do you want to still…

Glen Stockment stated, I think it’s good there, yes.

Director Weaver asked, the Board is receiving drainage approval tonight with their pictures. Did you get my message?

Glen Stockment stated, yes.

Director Weaver asked, were you able to get a hold of him?

Glen Stockment stated, yes, I can have the secondary plat probably on the business day Thursday.

Attorney Altman asked, tell us about the drainage on this one Mr. Stockment, would you please?

Glen Stockment stated, well, I already have given you the drainage on this one, the previous one also has a tile that I put in available, I will have to extend that tile in the previous 80 acres to serve those particular two lots. This one is the one that has, I thought that we were talking about Prairie View, this one does have the tile through the two building lots all of the way to the road 1100.

President Anderson asked, so the other one actually didn’t have but you are going to show how you are going to drain those other lots…

Glen Stockment stated, yes.

President Anderson asked, on the plat and everything?

Glen Stockment stated, yes.

President Anderson asked, did you get that?

Attorney Altman stated, yes I did. We will have to amend that to show that will be installed and shown on the plat.

President Anderson stated, improvements would have to be on the secondary anyway.

Attorney Altman stated, it would have to be on the secondary or bonded.

President Anderson asked, does anyone else in the audience have any questions about this request? Do the Commissioners have any other questions?

Attorney Altman asked, so this is the one that has the 4” tile, 70’ wide on this, these particular tracts of ground?

Glen Stockment stated, that is correct.

Attorney Altman stated, servicing lot #1 and lot #2 and I presume that Mr. Stearns’ property also.

Glen Stockment stated, yes.

Attorney Altman asked, the utility easement will also be a drainage easement.

President Anderson asked, so then that would be on the secondary…

Attorney Altman stated, plat.

President Anderson asked, does anyone else have any other questions?

Don Ward asked, where are the buildings? This shows 3 buildings and a shed on lot #1.

Glen Stockment stated, this one, I apologize here for being confused here, the first one the crib is still standing I’m planning on taking it down…

Don Ward asked, it wasn’t inside the lot?

Glen Stockment stated, no.

Don Ward asked, it was outside of the lot?

Glen Stockment stated, yes.

Don Ward stated, this one is showing inside, there are 3 buildings, there is a shed and what looks like two buildings that are, are these, this future building, this is actually existing.

Glen Stockment stated, this is a crib that has been torn down.

Don Ward stated, okay so it would actually go inside this section here.

Glen Stockment stated, this is existing Mr. Stearns property here, this is the house sold that out years ago and…

Attorney Altman stated, Mr. Stearns…

Jay Clawson stated, Mr. Stearns…

Attorney Altman stated, yes, Mr. Stearns is right there.

Don Ward stated, when you build, you have to build inside that section right there.

Glen Stockment stated, yes.

Don Ward asked, are there any problems with the shed…the utility?

Attorney Altman stated, as long as it doesn’t interfere with the utilities.

President Anderson asked…. drainage?

Attorney Altman stated, adding the drainage where it isn’t in existence, adding the utilities and drainage easement to the plat.

The Primary Approval Request for a 2 lot subdivision to be known as Prairie View Subdivision located in Princeton Township, was approved by a vote of 8 to 0, based on a finding of fact that the Standards of the Subdivision Control Ordinance have been met.

Attorney Altman stated, primary shall be granted upon receiving additional conditions required by the Drainage Board. You need to show the size and location of the existing subsurface drainage tile utilities on the plat and drainage easement also. Any questions, very good.

****

#279 Dale Kelly; Requesting approval of a 4 lot subdivision to be known as Kelly Subdivision. The property is located between U.S. Highway 24 and County Road 50 South and East of County Road 125 E.

President Anderson asked, do we have anyone here representing that request?

Dale Kelly stated, I’m Dale Kelly, I’m representing myself. If you need to know anything about drainage I don’t have my, I didn’t bring my map with me, it has the drainage on it. It goes over to a county tile at the road.

President Anderson asked, so drainage on all the lots?

Dale Kelly stated, yes.

Director Weaver stated, this subdivision has not been in front of the Drainage Board and received approval so we are looking for primary approval.

President Anderson asked, does anyone in the audience have any questions about this request?

Ralph Zarse asked, yes, I’m concerned about the drainage…the water back there...we farm just to the West across the road. I know the motel back there, they have a terrible time with their septic system and there will have to be septic systems put in there for the subdivision right?

Attorney Altman asked, what size of tile is the county tile?

Ralph Zarse stated, I don’t know what the county tile is.

Dale Kelly stated, it’s an 8”, it’s on the map.

Ralph Zarse stated, if there is going to be parking lots or a lot of stone areas there’s going to be a lot of water at one time…to take care of the water. If you have the septic systems, what’s going to keep those operating correctly? One of my other concerns is trash, people throw on the road onto our property there is a house on the corner and every time we come, we have to stop and pick up trash we have all kinds of kids toys out there, they are across there playing. I know the motel is…leach bed, it’s just too wet, he has to pump water out just to make it work. There is no drainage that goes out through us to speak of…

Attorney Altman asked, the tile that is shown on your plat, is it in there or does the tile need to be put in there?

Dale Kelly stated, it’s in there, it’s an 8” county tile…

Attorney Altman stated, no, no, I’m talking about the tile that is going across you’re proposed…

David Rosenbarger stated, the one 3” or 6” that is caddy cornered.

Dale Kelly asked, yes, what do you want to know about it?

Attorney Altman asked, are you going to install that or is it…

Dale Kelly stated, it’s already there.

Attorney Altman asked, both of them?

Dale Kelly stated, both of them.

Attorney Altman stated, both of them.

Dale Kelly stated, I have air wells in where it takes surface water, the tile east is there, a tile in the motel. The Zarse boys put together in the motel some time ago and they laid a new tile and it’s close over on the Zarse boys clear to the ditch. His brother told me that it plugged up several years ago, solid as a rock. My water doesn’t go that way. It runs parallel with the road right down to the county tile it’s on the road 125. My end runs North and that is a county tile and it runs down to a county tile across 24 it is about a 14” that goes through Dahlenburg farm there and it’s a county tile. My water has nothing to do with the Zarse boys whatsoever; it’s a completely separate deal.

Ralph Zarse stated, if your ground is built up though…

Dale Kelly stated, I don’t have anything to do with water running or going, what happed to the motel, they should be put in jail or suing, it boils out of the septic system on top of the ground, that doesn’t have anything to do with me.

Ralph Zarse stated, that’s their problem over there…

Dale Kelly stated, and it boils out of the ground over on Zarse’s place. That’s completely separate from my drainage on this whatsoever. Where they are having trouble with water coming out of the ground is over on their farm away from me it doesn’t have anything to do with me at all.

Ralph Zarse stated, yours is wet and stands in water.

Dale Kelly stated, we have never lost a crop in there, as long as we have been farming it…

Attorney Altman stated, one at a time, one at a time.

President Anderson asked, how is the motel drain, yours goes out to the county road…

Dale Kelly stated, to 125, right along the road there is a county tile.

President Anderson asked, how does, which way does the tile run from the motel?

Dale Kelly stated, it goes underneath road, 125 and it goes West to the Zarse farm.

President Anderson asked, it doesn’t tile into yours?

Dale Kelly stated, no, it’s two different tiles.

Don Ward asked, your tile, the 8” tile along the road goes north…

Dale Kelly stated, right there at U.S. Highway 24…

Don Ward stated, under U.S. Highway 24…

Dale Kelly stated, right on down U.S. Highway 24 which is, I think a 14” county tile and that goes to the, a ditch.

Don Ward asked, over on Burns?

Dale Kelly stated, yes, and you can look down in here well down on the Dahlenburg Farm and see the tile hooked into that there a big square catch basin, you can see the tile coming into it from the North going North into this catch basin. The tile that he’s talking about, the motel way back when and the Zarse boys went together and they, I think you guys split the cost of the tile…

Ralph Zarse stated, yes…

Dale Kelly stated, and they paid, that has nothing to do with me whatsoever.

Ralph Zarse stated, I know that but…

President Anderson asked, where is your property located? Is your property located across the county road?

Ralph Zarse stated, yes, on the other side, we will be down hill if he builds his way up.

Dale Kelly stated, I’m not going to build mine up, we’re just going to build on it.

President Anderson asked, when does it cross the road.

An audience member stated, it doesn’t.

Doug McGill stated, it doesn’t, that’s my department, that’s place is…

Attorney Altman asked, your name sir?

Doug McGill stated, oh, my name is Douglas McGill sir.

Attorney Altman stated, thank you.

Doug McGill stated, I own the land to the South and it is very wet. On wet years there is water standing there for a long period of time. There are going to be a lot of mosquitoes in that area so, I don’t know if you people are going to be sensitive to the West Nile Virus or not but, there is going to be a lot of mosquitoes, a lot of water right across the road from this subdivision. He does have a tile in the center of it but it’s still an awful wet area so I’m just kind of concerned about the suitability for housing there. That road is against Dale but, it’s awful wet.

Ralph Zarse stated, the woods are extremely wet.

Doug McGill stated, yes.

Don Ward asked, there’s no tile…

Doug McGill stated, there’s no tile.

Don Ward asked, no tile?

Doug McGill stated, no, it seems to me like if you’re going to build houses there you should get it drained better, that’s just my opinion. I mean I wouldn’t want my house sitting next to the swamp.

President Anderson asked, do the Commissioners have any other questions?

Dale Kelly stated, I have something that I would like to add. There is a house right on the corner, they have a septic system and they don’t have a dime of trouble. I have a septic system, I have no trouble whatsoever and we’re well drained, we don’t have no drainage, Doug Farmers place it would be the ground right next to me. I don’t think that we have ever lost a crop in there while he’s farmed there and we do have misquotes, I will go with that, Reynolds has misquotes too and so does Monticello.

President Anderson asked, do the Commissioners have any other questions about this request?

Jay Clawson asked, …rezoned lot #1 into industrial earlier this year, what kind of screening and special setbacks are in effect? Does there have to be, I mean normally we require some kind of screening or fence between the residential…

Attorney Altman stated, that needs to be shown on this plat, the screening.

President Anderson asked, you have what a chain link fence up around that?

Dale Kelly stated, right.

President Anderson asked, how high is the chain link fence?

Dale Kelly stated, 10’, with 3 barbwires on top of it.

Director Weaver stated, ….8’ screening….

Dale Kelly stated, it’s 10’ all together or it’s and 3 bars, one of them.

Director Weaver stated, residential protection, any business or industrial that abuts an area zoned and used for residential purposes must have a fence or barrier at least 8’ in height. This visual obstruction must be provided and perpetually maintained by the owner of commercial or industrial property and may be in the form of either a solid fence or natural vegetation.

Attorney Altman stated, that should be on the plat, showing on that so that it will be all of the way around.

Jay Clawson stated…protection…

Attorney Altman stated, well, residential uses.

Jay Clawson stated, well, it doesn’t have to be on the county road…

Attorney Altman stated, no.

Jay Clawson stated, just where it abuts up to the R-2 on…

Attorney Altman stated, probably should have that…

Don Ward stated, other home…

Attorney Altman stated, other home, because it’s residential.

President Anderson asked, you have it all of the way around don’t you?

Dale Kelly asked, what’s that?

President Anderson asked, is your fence all of the way around?

Dale Kelly stated, its’ all of the way around and it’s got 2 gates.

Attorney Altman stated, then you will just have to make it so that it’s solid, so that we can’t see in and out.

Dale Kelly stated, say that again.

Attorney Altman stated, it has to be solid.

Dale Kelly asked, what has to be solid?

Jay Clawson stated, the fence.

Attorney Altman stated, the fence.

Dale Kelly stated, well, we just close the gates and it will be solid.

Attorney Altman stated, no…

President Anderson stated, so you can’t see through it.

Attorney Altman stated, can’t see through it.

Dale Kelly asked, I have to put up a solid fence?

Attorney Altman stated, yes sir.

Don Ward stated, or plants or vegetation.

Attorney Altman stated, or plants or vegetation, you do have to, visual obstruction.

Dale Kelly stated, I will put in a fence.

Attorney Altman stated, get approval.

President Anderson asked, it would have to be some kind of living fence or something to screen. The existing house that is there, will he have to go around it too?

Dale Kelly stated, it goes around it now.

Attorney Altman stated, I think that you need, honestly an excellent…

President Anderson stated, but, not on the county road.

Attorney Altman stated, to add to your subdivision if you went down the middle line of lot #3 and #4 all of the way to the road there County Road 50 South with a tile all of the way to the road to drain that.

Dale Kelly stated, say that again.

Attorney Altman stated, the line between lot #3 and #4…

Dale Kelly asked, I have to get up there.

Attorney Altman stated, yes, okay. I think that if you put, if you took that 100’ of tile drain all of the way to the highway or the road there County Road 50 South I think that it would improve your subdivision a lot.

There was discussion among the Board.

Attorney Altman stated, if you take it from here to the road.

Dale Kelly stated, okay, I can…. I have a tile…

Don ward stated, yes…

Jay Clawson stated, yes….

Attorney Altman stated, no just takes it from here to there, here is your other tile here. So if you went from here to there it would improve that subdivision a lot, okay, I think that, that would make the Health Department happy and the Drainage Board happy too.

President Anderson stated, the fence too is going to block the paper and stuff blowing west too.

Dale Kelly stated, well, I put all of my paper real careful in a trash can, I think I can, I don’t know…

Attorney Altman stated, there won’t be much blowing your way Mr. Zarse, with that as a solid fence.

Paul Zarse stated, it’s toys and stuff that gets…

Dale Kelly stated, I don’t have any toys…

Attorney Altman stated, it’s only going to be the area that blows your way will be the lot that is right up by the motel, now I’m not telling you that it doesn’t happen okay….

Paul Zarse stated, oh, I hear you, the trash is going to go east basically.

Attorney Altman stated, yes, it will go to the East.

President Anderson stated, so we need to make it contingent upon…

Attorney Altman stated, that’s all that I’m asking.

Dale Kelly asked, you say that I can plant something, what can I plant?

David Rosenbarger stated, a solid fence or…

Jay Clawson stated, …vine or…

Dale Kelly stated, well if I plant that, it isn’t going to grow overnight.

Attorney Altman stated, and obviously, have to have tile between lots #3 ad #4 like we agreed.

Dale Kelly asked, does it make any difference what size of a fence we put that on?

Director Weaver stated, it has to be maintained by you.

Dale Kelly stated, it has to be maintained by me.

Director Weaver stated, yes.

Attorney Altman stated, the owner of that lot…

Director Weaver stated, once you sell those lots…. maintain it.

Dale Kelly stated, I could put hedge there.

Attorney Altman asked, anything else Board? Obviously, Drainage Board approval also.

Jay Clawson stated, he needs that in secondary.

Attorney Altman stated, I understand, I’m just saying it on the record Jay, you’re quite right.

Don Ward asked, you’re not going to let that one lot have…

Dale Kelly asked, what’s that?

Don Ward asked, you don’t want that lot #2 to have…. I suppose that they could if they wanted to.

Dale Kelly stated, well, it’s going to go to he county tile over to because, I put a tile in, you say that you want me to put a tile in.

Don Ward stated, no…

Director Weaver stated, he means access…

Don Ward stated, I mean ingress and egress for lot #2.

Dale Kelly stated, access.

Don Ward stated, I’m talking about where it abuts to, they could outlet on U.S. Highway 24.

Jay Clawson stated, he’s talking about the driveway.

Dale Kelly stated, there’s a driveway there now.

Don Ward stated, that’s what I thought.

With no further discussion the Board voted.

The Primary Approval Request for a 4 lot subdivision to be known as Kelly Subdivision located in Honey Creek Township, was approved by a vote of 8 to 0, based on a finding of fact that the Standards of the Subdivision Control Ordinance have been met.

 

Attorney Altman stated, upon receipt of conditional conditions it is approved, lot 1 must have a solid fence or shrub as required by Ordinance installed and tile all of the way, 6” between lots #3 and #4. I think that’s it, and drainage Board approval.

****

#4 Constance S. & Keith Lynn Heath; Requesting to Vacate Lots, Streets and Alleys in Thomasville Subdivisions 1, 2, & 3. The property is located East of Monon and off of the North side of State Road 16.

President Anderson asked, do we have anyone representing that request?

Lynn Heath stated, I’m Lynn Heath.

President Anderson asked, do the Commissioners have any questions about this request?

Director Weaver stated, they are requesting this for tax purposes, this vacation is for consolidation for tax purposes.

Don Ward asked, but they are not vacating the streets right?

Lynn Heath stated, Wilson.

Director Weaver stated, no.

Lynn Heath stated, we’re just vacating the lots turn them into 1 and 2 acres.

Don Ward stated, well, the request here says that the lots, streets and alleys…

Director Weaver stated, I can…

Lynn Heath stated, my request says….

Director Weaver stated, I think that is probably my mistake.

Lynn Heath stated, my request says the city lots.

Don Ward stated, that’s the way that I read it.

Lynn Heath stated, I read it that way too.

President Anderson stated, so we’re deleting streets, streets now, we’re still vacating the lots.

Lynn Heath stated, that’s correct.

President Anderson asked, does anyone in the audience have any questions about that request? Do the Commissioners have any more questions?

Jay Clawson asked, so we’re not, giving up on the dream of Thomasville of growing into a thriving metropolis.

Lynn Heath stated, well, we pledge on a couple of stores there and it failed, we had a small elevator there and it fell over and we have kind of given up. We do have street signs that we had to buy and pay for ourselves but, we do have street signs and we do have a sign that says Thomasville so people will know where we’re at when they go through there.

Don Ward asked, who started that subdivision, do you know?

Constance Heath stated, Cooper Thomas.

Lynn Heath stated, Copper Thomas, I don’t know how long ago.

Constance Heath stated, a long time ago.

Director Weaver stated, I actually found a copy of the split in 1956.

Jay Clawson asked, now are there any other residence in Thomasville that are, have the same idea?

Floyd Green stated, yes, I do, I have 21 lots that I would like to do away with, 20, what I want to there would be no lots until I got this paid for.

Attorney Altman asked, your name sir.

Floyd Green stated, Floyd Green.

Attorney Altman stated, thank you Mr. Green.

Jay Clawson asked, because I didn’t want to, if they were owned by like 20 some other people, I didn’t know what that was going to, between the two of you, you own most of the lots?

Lynn Heath stated, in Thomasville between the two of us we own the majority of the lots in Thomasville. I own 18 lots in Thomasville and Floyd owns…

Floyd Green stated, 21 lots…

Lynn Heath stated, 21 lots in Thomasville and Floyds lots are farm ground and woods my lots are I try to keep them mowed hen the water is down where I can get them mowed and I have an orchard on it.

Floyd Green stated, see I had planned on putting agricultural on the estate but, they charge me for too much or taxes on the ditch because they are not even tiles. See, we don’t have any tiles and I think that’s all we’re paying for is tile, so much and you’re not getting any good from it…

President Anderson asked, they will tell you water drains…

Constance Heath stated, yes…

Floyd Green stated, they have told us for 35 years it drains uphill and we’re sure that it does.

Attorney Altman stated, for the record, all of the corners of lots in the subdivision were given notice.

Floyd Green stated, see I wanted to do away with the street, if I was going to do that too because, we would have no use for them.

Lynn Heath stated, we’ll work on that.

Floyd Green stated, okay.

Lynn Heath stated, there is a road between Floyd and my property which, we would like to, in the future we would like to vacate.

President Anderson asked, does it dead ends at your property?

Lynn Heath stated, it dead ends right there, yes it does. I will like is say, we’ll present a petition together joint petition together to do that.

There was discussion among the Board.

Jay Clawson stated, I think that we really need to make sure that the legal description is proper when you put all 3 lots together on one and all of the other that you get a proper survey and legal description…

Constance Heath stated, that’s already done.

Jay Clawson stated, I just want to make sure that it’s in order and it’s all-proper, it will be a lot easier to pay taxes on it.

Director Weaver stated, we do have a survey that’s been submitted…

Jay Clawson stated, I just want to make sure that…

Director Weaver stated, and the petition has been corrected.

Dennis Sterrett stated, I just noticed some errors in the petition.

Director Weaver stated, they have corrected, there were some errors and they have been corrected.

Dennis Sterrett stated, okay.

Attorney Altman stated, it has to be right or it might as well go undone.

Lynn Heath stated, we got it right.

President Anderson stated, the commission…the original purpose of this plat…. vacate all parts of the plat as…that part of the land is owned by the petitioner…

With no further discussion the Board voted.

The results of the vote for vacating lots in Thomasville Subdivisions 1, 2 & 3 in Monon Township were as follows: 8 affirmative and 0 negative.

****

President Anderson stated, next we have business.

Director Weaver stated, we have, we have been discussing the building height and discussion with Attorney Altman he has requested that we need to change the wording.

Attorney Altman stated, on the special exception the section that was sited in the Ordinance is not in existence. Section 3, 2.22 there is not 3.22, obviously it needs to refer to section 10.24, and it isn’t that it’s defective really but you’ve heard a non-existing section.

Director Weaver stated, now I have already advertised this so, we can vote on this.

Attorney Altman stated, to an existing section number.

President Anderson asked, ……?

Attorney Altman stated, I was not….

There was discussion among the Board members.

The results of the vote on the Amendment to Chapter X, Article 10.20, Item 10.2009, “Review, Approval and Appeals” were as follows: 8 affirmative and 0 negative. This will be presented to Town Councils and County Commissioners for their action.

Attorney Altman stated, on chapter 10 amendment.

Director Weaver stated, just so that the Board members do know so that you can forewarn your Town Councils, this will also come to your Town Councils for approval. I will also be taking this to the County Commissioners so when you get this you will know what it’s about.

President Anderson asked, is that all that we have?

Director Weaver stated, no.

Attorney Altman stated, building height, you wanted to look at that. What it’s really trying to do and it’s more obvious to anyone, well, I think that it’s fairly obvious but when they talk about mean height and stuff like that it gets confusing. Director Weaver is trying to make it so that when you measure it and it says. I think that it’s a good one to do and you guys may have some suggestions and that’s where we’re at.

Director Weaver stated, I have not advertised this so, I’m open for suggestions. Dave did make the recommendation that we consider making this…. I see some problems with that, I would like to probably…. I don’t know….all accessory buildings which is….

David Scott stated, what I don’t understand it seems like….

(tape was changed)

Dave Scott asked, what is the distance of height?

Director Weaver stated, 15’.

Dave Scott asked, so anyone that wants to go to two stories has to…

Director Weaver stated, no, the only thing that is going to really effect this is, a home can be 30’…. this is a definition for all heights but it’s….detached buildings. That’s the thing that we have problems with.

Attorney Altman stated…shorter, that’s what we’re asking for.

Director Weaver stated, the maximum for a home is 30’, the maximum height for a detached building, garage shed…

There was discussion among the Board.

Jay Clawson stated, I make a motion that we adjourn.

Director Weaver stated, wait, is there any discussion on attorney fees? If you notice there is a new one on here on Waugh, we have filed against Juanita Waugh and that’s what those fees are for. Freeman, that is John Freeman, we are trying to collect on a letter of credit that we have.

Attorney Altman stated, okay, that does bring up a point…but I did not put a completion date on it when approved and basically what I read to his lawyer is if you don’t get that amended,, correctly amended, we will just file suit and revoke you’re….allow you to come in compliance by getting your plat, your letter of credit in completion but he didn’t do that.

Director Weaver stated, we had John give us his estimate or letter of credit to see if it was feasible, the letter of credit is for 3,000 dollars and…thinks that it should be 5,000.

Attorney Altman stated, why don’t you drop a letter in my hands…letter for jurisdiction.

There was discussion among the Board.

Attorney Altman stated, that’s what I have done with Freeman, I have not heard a word about it.

Director Weaver stated, we need to make some changes to our subdivision Ordinance, give that some thought…requested some money in our budget for…. to do that.

Meeting adjourned.

Respectfully submitted,

Donald W. Ward, Secretary

White County Area Plan Commission

Diann Weaver, Director

White County Area Plan Commission