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May 5, 2008 Tape # 009

The White County Drainage Board convened at 10:35 A.M. in the Commissioners’ Room of the White County Building, Monticello, Indiana, with Board Members Ronald Schmierer, John Heimlich and Steve Burton, Attorney George W. Loy, Surveyor Dennis Sterrett, Drainage Assistant Mary Sterrett and Secretary Jamie Rozzi in attendance.

Also in attendance were Engineer Todd Frauhiger, Charlie Mellon, and Larry Duncan with Duncan & Associates representing Fertilizer Dealer Supply.


The first item on the agenda was to approve the minutes from the April 19th, 2008 meeting. Board Member Burton moved to approve the minutes. Board Member Heimlich seconded the motion. Motion carried unanimously.


The next item on the agenda was opening Spray Quotes for 2008. Attorney Loy stated, “We have received two quotes, one from Dalton’s of Warsaw and one from Townsend of Parker City. I will just read the total quote on both. Dalton’s quote for 44.87 miles appears to be $39,487.00. Townsend’s quote is $34,477.70.”


“Didn’t Townsend do the spraying last year?” Chairman Schmierer asked.


Surveyor Sterrett replied, “Not these drains, but he was the contractor that sprayed last year.”


“I am assuming that they are all bidding the same mileage…The Townsend price per mile works out to be $768.04 for 44.89 miles ($0.14 per foot). They both include their specs for application and what they will be using,” Attorney Loy stated. (Dalton’s price per mile is $880.03 for 44.87 miles/$0.16 per foot.)


“Were you satisfied with Townsend?” Chairman Schmierer asked.


“I thought they did a good job last year,” Surveyor Sterrett replied.


“Does the board have any comments?” Chairman Schmierer asked. No one had any comments regarding the spray quote.


Board Member Burton made a motion to accept the low bid from Townsend of Parker City, Indiana. Board Member Heimlich seconded the motion. Motion carried unanimously.


The next item on the agenda is Fertilizer Dealer Supply (Round Grove Township) Drainage Review. Surveyor Sterrett explained, “The site is located between 700 and 800 South and US 231. There is already a building on it and they are planning to build a new building. There is a tile that runs through the back on the property, the Oliver Holladay Tile. The Holladay Tile runs down and empties into the Holladay Open, which empties into the Big Pine. There is an air well located on the tile on their property.”


“Fertilizer will not be stored over the tile will it?” Chairman Schmierer asked.


Surveyor Sterrett replied, “It’s not really for fertilizer. It is a fertilizer supplier.”


Mr. Duncan explained, “It will store sprayers, parts, and more equipment. No chemicals.”


Engineer Frauhiger stated, “As a matter of fact, there will be a detention basin built between the new building/parking area, all graded into the detention basin. There will be a tile exiting the detention basin and basically day-lighting right about here (pointing to the location on the map). There is also a breather on the tile. It is all contained on their property…with the detention basin…and I checked all the calculations and they are actually going to be discharging less water back toward the tile than it currently gets. There was some flooding on that tile earlier this year when we had the big rains, but the actual riser was covered with cornstalks when we were out there so we had to clean it off.”


Surveyor Sterrett showed some photos of the site provided to him by the engineering firm, which showed the site after the rain in January.


“Just out of curiosity, will you continue to farm the back acreage?” Board Member Burton asked.


Mr. Duncan replied, “That will be all grass. They want to be able to actually demonstrate some of their equipment from time to time and they thought that sod area would be the best way to do that.”


“Are you going to keep the other building?” Chairman Schmierer asked.


Mr. Duncan replied, “Yes, sir.”


Surveyor Sterrett stated, “I guess we didn’t understand the loading dock.”


“What they’ve got is a periodic need to unload a semi or a straight truck. All that is, is basically a concrete headwall with two wing walls and a gravel approach with possibly a dock leveler type plate. It would just be exposed and out in the open. I am a little concerned with putting it there until we get a few things settled in because it seems like on paper that is a wonderful place to have that, but I’m not sure if that’s where it really needs to be. They need something and we are meeting together with the owners and one of the things we are looking at is a portable dock, something that you could pull from one site to another or move it around on that site, and that would alleviate any logistics from it by just taking it away,” Mr. Duncan stated.


Engineer Frauhiger said, “One thing I forgot to mention was that there will be a field tile down through the middle of the pond, perimeter around the septic system, going back and tying into the tile and that will keep the pond dry between rain storms also.”


“Do you have it ready to be signed Engineer Frauhiger?” Chairman Schmierer asked.


“Yes, it’s ready to be approved,” Engineer Frauhiger replied.


Board Member Burton made a motion to approve the drainage review for Fertilizer Dealer Supply in Round Grove Township. Board Member Heimlich seconded the motion. Motion carried unanimously.


Surveyor Sterrett showed photos of a large wash on the Scott Hughes Ditch near Charlie Geier’s property.


Surveyor Sterrett also showed photos of some of the items taken out of the Watson Tile up in Monon. Surveyor Sterrett explained, “We jetted out the Watson Tile. Some of the stuff that we got out of the tile was a hammer, a railroad rail, a six foot bar, and a pillow.”


“Is this the tile at Viking Village?” Attorney Loy asked.


“Yes, the trailer has been moved,” Surveyor Sterrett replied.


Chairman Schmierer asked, “Did you have to dig out the tile to get to that? How did that stuff get in the tile?”


“No, it wasn’t very far down from the catch basin. We got down in there and got that stuff out,” Surveyor Sterrett stated.


“Did they finally move that trailer?” Chairman Schmierer asked.


“Yes,” Surveyor Sterrett replied.


See tape for additional discussion regarding jetting the Watson Tile in Monon.


The next item to discuss was Echo Lane Estates which is owned by Echterling. Surveyor Sterrett explained, “The drainage plan had been approved for this subdivision, however, I don’t know if this a drainage board issue or not. The road and the drainage plan have been completed and he has built his first house. He came in and cut the bank down so he can get a building lot out of it. Supposedly, he is going to cut two more feet out of it. Bob Lamb, adjoining property owner, is concerned about ground erosion because it is so close to his property. I had suggested a retaining wall there.”


“You would think that the guy would put ballast on the bank to keep it from eroding. How many houses is he going to put in there?” Chairman Schmierer asked.


Surveyor Sterrett replied, “There are fourteen lots, counting two along the lake.”


“I would think that maybe it would be an Area Plan issue, with setbacks,” Board Member Heimlich stated.


Engineer Frauhiger stated, “Setback is 30 foot shown on the plans from the building pad to the back of that property line.”


“Can you excavate right up to the property line?” Board Member Heimlich asked.


Engineer Frauhiger replied, “It is interesting…he did not show any of this excavation on the plans. He showed all of the work out along the new roads. What’s sad is that if the two gentlemen could work it out…if you start right at the slope and go move out a couple more feet, and grade it out to 5 to 1, you could probably get on Mr. Lamb’s property by five or ten feet. If it could be re-established back to 5 to 1 and sod or seed it; problem solved.”


Board Member Burton stated, “When we would enter into this is if he is not following what he submitted to us as a drainage plan. That would be the only way we would be…”


Surveyor Sterrett stated, “The drainage plan didn’t show any cut there.”


“Does that affect the drainage plan?” Board Member Burton asked.


“No,” Surveyor Sterrett and Engineer Frauhiger both stated.


“Have the neighbors talked?” Attorney Loy asked.


“Lamb has talked to Echterling. I guess they’ve been talking. Echterling wants to come back and cut this down at his expense, but Lamb doesn’t want him on his property. He (Mr. Lamb) has it for sale,” Surveyor Sterrett explained.


“How much property does Lamb own? Does he own a lot of more than that?” Board Member Heimlich asked.


“It goes from North West Shafer Drive up back to the lake. Mr. Lamb already sold Mr. Echterling 50 feet so…,” Surveyor Sterrett explained.


“I think that’s a civil issue,” Chairman Schmierer stated. The other board members also agreed that it is a civil issue.


Surveyor Sterrett brought up the Keever Tile for discussion. This tile runs through Claude Butt. Surveyor Sterrett explained that there was quite a bit of work done back in 2005. Surveyor Sterrett explained that the Keever Tile empties into the Church Ditch, it runs south of the Church Ditch and north of the T .J. Hines ditch. Surveyor Sterrett explained, “I think the water got out of the T. J. Hines and the Church and got into the Keever Tile and blew it up in about 10 different spots, water was coming out of the air well. I had Wrede’s out there and they fixed a couple spots and found all the holes. They called me and said that it would be expensive. I told them to move up and dig where it was dry and see if they could fix that problem. The problem wasn’t there, it was on up in the woods where we had the new tile put in. I don’t know whether it went over a rock or…there was too much water in the hole last week. I think he has isolated the problem for it not draining. He has it exposed waiting for the water to drain out. There are eight holes farther down. He’s got two others fixed and I think if he gets the one spot fixed it will start draining. Mr. Butt actually has private tile that runs through there and empties into the T. J. Hines. The water is boiling out of the Keever Tile and running back down into Mr. Butt’s private tile. So, it would be wetter than it is if Mr. Butt didn’t have that tile in there. I guess what I am saying is that we’re going to have a pretty expensive bill on this. It is paid by the Church Ditch.”


“You just cleaned the Church Ditch, correct?” Chairman Schmierer asked.


Surveyor Sterrett replied, “Yes, the outlet looks good. It was running some water, but it’s blocked. We put solid tile in there so roots would not get in it, but for some reason there it looks like there is a hump in there. So, as soon as the water gets down they will probably get that fixed and then they will have to go back and fix the holes.”


Surveyor Sterrett stated that he had received a letter from FEMA requiring him to attend a meeting on May 13th to sign papers and that Gordy (Cochran), Emergency Management, asked him to contact the other Drainage Boards to let them know. Board Member Burton stated that he would also attend that meeting.


Surveyor Sterrett also showed photos of a wash on the Bossung. There was a suck hole on top of the surface drain.


Board Member Heimlich explained, “It’s where it goes into the ditch. There is a waterway that goes back toward the west and also east of the highway.”


Surveyor Sterrett explained, “The pipe is rusted out. It is probably rusted out at the top where it sucked in, but you can see that the bottom is rusted.”


“Is that under the railroad?” Chairman Schmierer asked.


“No, it is just a drain through the bank for a waterway. It has piled silt up in the ditch down there pretty good,” Surveyor Sterrett stated.


“What do you want me to do with that pipe…it’s a 36” pipe and 60 feet long. It’s got a head wall on it,” Surveyor Sterrett asked.


“It is going to be expensive to repair. That is a private crossing, isn’t it?” Chairman Schmierer asked.


“It was put in…it involves all of the landowners that were in on the Bossung Ditch. The waterway goes back to Furrer, Wiese to the south, Kyburz and Lehe. All that surface water goes into that,” Board Member Heimlich explained.


“I’d get someone to take a look at it and give you an estimate,” Chairman Schmierer suggested.


“I had asked Surveyor Sterrett to take a look at it to see whether or not the pipe was necessary. Did you take a grade on the waterway?” Board Member Heimlich asked.


“No,” Surveyor Sterrett replied.


“The pipe separates two fields of mine, but I don’t use that as a crossing,” Board Member Heimlich stated.


“If you took it out and just left an open ditch there you are going to have a pretty good cut there at the bank. I don’t know what it would do as far as erosion, it wouldn’t be any more erosion then what’s going through that I wouldn’t think, once you get the banks established,” Surveyor Sterrett explained.


Chairman Schmierer stated, “I think you need to look into it, whatever it’s going to need to get it replaced. Does that come out of the Bossung Maintenance fund?”


“The Bossung comes out of the Esther Fraser,” Surveyor Sterrett stated.


“Did Mr. Ezra get back and finish those items on the Esther Fraser?” Chairman Schmierer asked.


“I looked at Roger Wiese’s and he has it all cultivated up. I don’t know whether he made it look nice or who…,” Surveyor Sterrett stated.


“I think that was Roger Wiese because when Mr. Ezra was there fixing that overflow pipe on me, Roger had a field cultivator and was picking things up so I don’t think he would have had to go back there,” Board Member Heimlich stated.


Surveyor Sterrett reported that he is trying to go take a look at most of the tile holes and washes. There are still several to look at.


Chairman Schmierer asked for an update on Greg Jacobs & the Victor Tile in Brookston. Surveyor Sterrett reported that a drainage plan has been submitted for approval, but it was received late last week and has not been reviewed. Mr. Jacobs has not paid his drainage approval fee for this project as of today.


“We received the plans and calculations last Wednesday, but I have not had a chance to look at them,” Engineer Frauhiger stated.


“What is he planning to do, put a pond in the middle of the tile?” Chairman Schmierer asked.


“Yes,” Surveyor Sterrett replied.


“He has TR-21 runs from Mr. Gross, but I’m not sure yet,” Engineer Frauhiger stated.


“I would question whether or not the city would want a pond back there,” Chairman Schmierer stated.


Attorney Loy asked, “Is it in the city limits?”


“Yes. It seems like there would be a lot of liability there, right next to that mobile home park,” Surveyor Sterrett stated.


“I would think so, next that mobile home park and there are a lot of little kids back in there. I would think…,” Chairman Schmierer stated.


“We’ll be sure to go talk to the town during the review process,” Engineer Frauhiger stated.


Chairman Schmierer stated, “I would say so, I would think the Town Board would have something to say about that…maybe not, maybe they won’t care…I don’t know. It would be on private property, but by the same token why invite problems.”


“The Commissioner’s had given up part of their 75 foot right-of-way in the past. So, it’s down to 37 ½ feet, I think, but it’s still going to be within that parameter,” Board Member Burton stated.


“Do we want that?” Attorney Loy asked.


Board Member Burton, “That is what I’m saying…we have an issue…,”


“I’m not sure we want a pond in the middle of a tile, are you?” Chairman Schmierer stated.


Board Member Burton replied, “Well, I don’t know. I don’t want to cross up the town if they think that is a benefit, but I’m not sure…”


“I doubt if they even know it,” Chairman Schmierer stated.


“They are aware of it. Max is aware of it,” Board Member Burton stated.


“The threshold question is whether you guys want to give Consent to Encroach…,” Attorney Loy stated.


“I don’t even know what it looks like. I’m not sure if it’s over the tile, in the easement, I’m not sure what in the plan yet,” Engineer Frauhiger stated.


“And if you need to repair that area, how do you get to it?” Attorney Loy asked.


“Well, he is just taking the tile out of that area…he is letting the water come into and then out of the pond into the tile, that’s what he is going to do…put a headwall in,” Chairman Schmierer stated.


“Instead of replacing what he crushed…,” Attorney Loy stated.


Surveyor Sterrett stated, “In other words, water comes in pond, water goes out.”


“And I’m not sure that’s a good idea,” Chairman Schmierer stated.


“Is the pond going to be deeper?” Board Member Heimlich asked.


Engineer Frauhiger stated, “I don’t even know that yet.”


“He is going to dig out the tile,” Surveyor Sterrett replied.


Chairman Schmierer explained, “What I’m saying is that if he is going through the tile, you have 37 ½ feet wide is all the wider the pond can be.”


Engineer Frauhiger clarified, “I think he is going out onto his property.”


“Yes, but even if he puts three foot into that 37 ½ feet, we have a yes or no on the situation,” Board Member Burton stated.


“We need to think about the farmers up the road,” Chairman Schmierer stated.


“Like we’ve said, we haven’t looked at the plans yet,” Surveyor Sterrett said.


Well, those will be approved at another meeting, so…,” Chairman Schmierer stated.


“Can you approve something like that without landowners being involved?” Board Member Heimlich asked.


Chairman Schmierer stated, “I wouldn’t think so.”


“Especially if you are taking tile out,” Board Member Burton stated.


“If he is going to take tile out, it’s a Reconstruction, so you have to have a meeting with all the landowners,” Chairman Schmierer stated.


“Why not replace the tile?” Attorney Loy asked.


“He will replace it if that is what the board wants,” Surveyor Sterrett stated.


Chairman Schmierer asked if there was anything further for the Drainage Board. Chairman Schmierer then adjourned the meeting.