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March 2, 2009 Tape #05

The White County Drainage Board convened at 10:30 A.M. in the Commissioners’ Room of the White County Building, Monticello, Indiana, with Board Members Ron Schmierer, John Heimlich and Steve Burton, Attorney George W. Loy, Surveyor Dennis Sterrett, Engineer Todd Frauhiger, Drainage Assistant Mary Sterrett and Secretary Jamie Rozzi in attendance.


Others in attendance were:

Steve Brooke – White County Highway Superintendent

Pastor Nate Pyle, Kay Harrison – Lake Shafer Christian Center

Bill Tully – Twin Lakes Southern Baptist Church

Terry Beasy, Chas Triplett – Boy Scout Camp

Dan Davis – Natural Resources Conservation Services

Joe Mowrer – City of Monticello Wastewater Superintendent

Martin Culik, Alvin Cargill, Wayne Beck, Keith Turner – Horizon Wind Energy

Charlie Mellon

The first item on the agenda was to approve the minutes from the February 17, 2009 meeting. Board Member Heimlich so moved. Board Member Burton seconded the motion. Motion carried unanimously.


The next item on the agenda was the continuation of the Lake Shafer Christian Center Drainage review.


Chairman Schmierer explained, “At the last meeting they were in here and we asked them continue it to this meeting. I think we wanted some insight on what needs to be done with it.”


Surveyor Sterrett explained, “Engineer Frauhiger looked at it; at the January 5th meeting a waiver was asked for a waiver from the White County Drainage Ordinance and that was denied. Then they came up with a plan and that was tabled. That is where we are at today.”


Engineer Frauhiger explained, “I think this was discussed at the last meeting. There is a proposed detention pond between what would be the new lot, Lot 1 and the existing church lot which is Lot 2, with a drainage ditch that goes around the edge of the property. The problem is that the detention pond, the outlet of the detention pond is predicated upon the storm sewer being constructed along the new Sixth Street improvement. That is the only outlet for the detention pond. I re-ran the calculation to see what would happen if that pond was put in place with no outlet and it could handle one (1) one hundred year storm, it would fill the pond up and it would just have to soak into the ground. There would be no free board at all. If there was another storm shortly after the first storm it would basically flood everything. The calculations are correct if the Sixth Street pipe is in place, that is the correct pond size and the calculations are adequate. Board member Heimlich, Surveyor Sterrett and I had a chance to meet and talk about it. I think, and I tried to get a hold of Joe Grinstead to confirm this, but I think the Sixth Street pipe is roughly two years away or more.”


“2010 would be the earliest. When we met we also had Joe Rogers over discussing the subdivision ordinance and what was required. And for the ordinance, really a plan approved by us is required, but it doesn’t necessary have to be in place for the subdivision to occur. I guess what we finally decided was that we could approve the plan, but we want to make it clear that if there is going to be any building done on that subdivided lot it would have to be postponed until the outlet went in,” Board member Heimlich stated.


Engineer Frauhiger stated, “Or whoever purchases Lot 1 could come back with an alternate drainage plan that had some other…”


“That had another outlet,” Board member Heimlich stated.


Engineer Frauhiger replied, “Right.”


Chairman Schmierer asked Pastor Nate Pyle and Ms. Kay Harrison of Lake Shafer Christian Center, “Do you understand what we’re talking about?”


“Yes,” they replied.


“So, what we’re telling you is…even if we approve it for you to subdivide so you can sell it, you are going to have to tell the buyer they are going to have to come up with a different drainage plan if they want to build on it before the county puts a road in out there.”


“He is aware of that,” Pastor Pyle stated.


“Because this won’t work,” Chairman Schmierer added.


Board member Burton stated, “Right now you are assuming that 100% of that water is going into the retention…”


Engineer Frauhiger stated, “And you are exactly right, it would be retention pond because there is no outlet right now. If there were back to back storms like we’ve had recently, it will…”


“If no one builds on there that’s not a problem,” Board member Burton stated.


Engineer Frauhiger stated, “If no one builds on there it will just remain as is.”


Chairman Schmierer asked, “So, do we want to approve the drainage plan as the way it sits and whenever they get a building permit they’ll have to have another drainage plan, is that right?”


Board member Heimlich stated, “If they wait until the outlet is in to build, they have the plan. The only way they’d need a different plan is if they want to build before that and they’d have to somehow come up with a different outlet.”


“I suppose that water would eventually get down to the side ditch…,” Surveyor Sterrett stated.


Chairman Schmierer stated, “There’s no side ditch there now, really.”


Engineer Frauhiger stated, “If anything, it looks like the side ditch dumps into Lot 1.”


“The plans we’ve seen on Sixth Street is that the tile will run north. Right now, I think the surface water tries to get south,” Surveyor Sterrett stated.


Chairman Schmierer stated, “They’ve dug it deep enough up to the north that it’ll have enough fall to go to the north.”


Board member Heimlich stated, “So, if I understand…we will approve this drainage plan contingent, I don’t know if contingent is the right word, that the new purchaser or builder would need to come back and, at that time, address the drainage issue. That is how I would make the motion.”


Board member Burton made the motion to approve the drainage plan for Lake Shafer Christian Center contingent to the fact that if there was something built on it they will have to have a different drainage plan if it is built before the Sixth Street tile is put in. Board member Heimlich seconded the motion. Motion carried unanimously.


The next item on the agenda was the drainage review for the Twin Lakes Southern Baptist Church.


Surveyor Sterrett explained, “The proposed drainage plan and building is out just northeast of Hendrickson Chrysler. Engineer Frauhiger has reviewed this drainage plan.”


Engineer Frauhiger explained, “Surveyor Sterrett just placed the pointer on the building. The parking lots are to the south and to the east of the church building. There is an existing detention pond south of the first parking lot and there is new proposed storm sewer draining this parking lot and then going over to the existing detention area and there is an existing 10 inch tile that comes all the way from Sixth Street and comes over and daylights just about right here and daylights right and lets surface water go across the property. Eventually it works its way over to the detention pond. There is a curb cut here that comes over and it cuts itself another swale over to the detention area. So, what we are going to do is...this pipe is going to be 45 down lower and there will be a new pipe brought over to where the curb cut is, new curb inlets in and a pipe put in to clean up the swale area that’s been cut back to the existing detention area. Then to provide an adequate amount of storage for the parking lot and the church, the existing detention area is going to be enlarged to get the adequate detention on there. They did the rational method which was suitable for the project and all of the calculations were reviewed. The only thing that we have asked them prior to the meeting, which they said they would get to me sometime this week, was detail on how this pipe was going to be lowered 45 down and have detail on that. I’ve also asked to reconfirm the 10 inch pipe size, just to make sure that 10 inch pipe size is large enough to get from the back area of that parking lot up to the junction where it goes to a 12 inch. So, they are going to confirm that pipe size. But, I would recommend approval other than those two minor items.”


Chairman Schmierer stated, “Then you want an approval …contingent to the fact that they are going to get pipes sizes and the plan for lowering the Sixth Street pipe.”


“Now, we’ve got water than runs down the street that enters that retention there, right?” Board member Burton asked.


“Right, there is a curb cut there and it’s channeling,” Surveyor Sterrett stated.


Board member Burton continued, “And these plans allow for that street water still to continue.”


“Correct,” Engineer Frauhiger stated.


“Is it surface or does it go to the pipe?” Board member Burton asked.


Engineer Frauhiger stated, “There will be a double curb inlet put in here and the curb cut will be closed off and there will be a new 12 inch pipe put in going to the detention area.”


Board member Burton stated, “So, the street water that is using that retention will come down and go subsurface to the pond, where it’s surface now.”


“That’s correct. That is this new 12 inch pipe,” Engineer Frauhiger stated.


“I just wanted to make sure that we are allowing for what have already allowed,” Board member Burton stated.


Right,” Engineer Frauhiger stated.


Chairman Schmierer stated, “He wants to approve it contingent of how they are going to lower the pipes from Sixth Street and also confirmation of the 10 inch pipe running behind the lot. I would need a motion for that.”


Board member Heimlich stated, “I would move that we approve the drainage plan for the Twin Lakes Southern Baptist Church with those stipulations.”


Board member Burton seconded the motion. Motion carried unanimously.


Chairman Schmierer stated, “Do you have a drainage plan that needs to be signed on that?”


“Yes,” Surveyor Sterrett stated.


The next item on the agenda is the E. Cochell Drain and Richel Enterprises.


Surveyor Sterrett explained, “Todd Redlin was supposed to be here. I can show you what he wants to do, I think. The E. Cochell Drain is right here, it is regulated from here down to here. He has an open ditch on the Richel property that they want to close in and run a new open ditch and outlet it into our regulated drain.”


Board member Burton stated, “Their open ditch is private, right?”


Surveyor Sterrett stated, “It’s private. So, first of all I told him that he would need an IDEM permit to fill in that ditch. Secondly, we needed to size…he thought there was going to be about 100 extra acres coming in to this ditch. So there is a pipe underneath the county road where it drains, this is the Brown Ditch-pretty good size ditch, so that pipe needs to be sized for the extra acreage. I don’t know what size that is…I have not measured it. So, that is what he wanted to talk to you about, whether it would feasible to run another hundred acres into that ditch.”


“Into the Brown?” Chairman Schmierer asked.


“Well, they want to divert it into the E. Cochell. Right now it runs into the Brown,” Surveyor Sterrett stated.


“Will the E. Cochell even carry it?” Chairman Schmierer asked.


Surveyor Sterrett stated, “I don’t know…I’d have to size the pipe underneath the road to find out. I think it would.”


“So is he wanting to do that to just make that bigger farm area…,” Board member Heimlich stated.


Surveyor Sterrett stated, “So he wouldn’t have to farm around those ditches, I guess. I believe that the neighbor’s tile is coming into this, I think this is the tile here or a waterway, coming into the private ditch and then the water runs north into the Brown Ditch.”


Chairman Schmierer asked, “What are they going to do, cut the neighbor off?”


“No, they are working with the neighbor. I got a call from the neighbor, which is Frank Gutwein, and he was wondering whether it would possible work or not or whether it could be done,” Surveyor Sterrett explained.


Chairman Schmierer stated, “Why don’t you go to work and explore it more and let us know what you think. There is no way we can make that decision until we know whether it’s going to work.”


Surveyor Sterrett stated, “That was why he was on the agenda, to explain what he wanted to do.”


The next item on the agenda was to Consent to Encroach on the J. Downey Tile at the Boy Scout Camp.


“What do they want to put on the tile?” Chairman Schmierer asked.


Terry Beasy, representing the Boy Scouts explained, “First of all my name is Terry Beasy, and I brought with me the new Camp Buffalo Ranger Chas Triplett. What we are looking to do…we came to you folks a few years back and we closed in part of the J. Downey Open Ditch with a piece of 18 inch tile and we have in that area our shooting sports complex. We’ve actually built a 100 yard range over the tile. We keep that mowed and keep the trees off of that and it’s shooting sports and is used by numerous scouting activities, the Sheriff’s Department, and 4-H shooting sports as well. What we are looking to do is build a very simple pavilion that would enclose the shooting range. Basically, a 4 inch concrete pad, 6 x 6 posts, and a roof over the top so that if you happen to be out there shooting on a day its raining you can keep your equipment and yourself underneath the roof. It’s a very scaled down structure, it can be easily removed. We have a drawing showing its location and the tile and we’ve shown you the 100 yard shooting range. We’ve also brought a…”


“Is this the building here? 10 by 60?” Chairman Schmierer asked.


“Yes, sir,” Mr. Beasy replied.


“Right on top of the tile?” Chairman Schmierer asked.


Mr. Beasy explained, “A couple things: the building does not have a footer. It’s a 4 inch poured slab so it can be easily removed and we’ve also brought the Drainage Board a letter.”


Mr. Beasy read the letter to the board, “We would like to build a pavilion, an addition at our 100 yard range. We realize there is a county tile in the area that we want to build. If you allow us to build this structure we fully acknowledge that if the county tile ever fails or ever needs repairs, it is our sole responsibility to remove said structure and allow repair to be made at this said tile. The structure and addition will be constructed so that it will be more easily removable, will be pole construction with metal screwed on roof. The cement floor will be poured inside the poles so they can be easily moved in the event that we would need to move this structure. It would be easy to move the cement slab out of the area, remove the roof, and pull the poles for maintenance of the tile.”


Mr. Beasy continued, “I checked last week, there is about 10 foot of dirt over the tile because it was put in to the old ditch. So, there is plenty of cover to support the weight of the building. All we are going to have is a ten foot wide, basically open roof structure. It allows us to have a concrete pad for a shooting lane to put tables on for youth and different folks to learn shooting sports.”


“Where is the tile?” Board member Heimlich asked.


Board member Burton asked, “Is the Gillian the same as the J. Downey?”


“Yes. This is the J, Downey Tile that goes into the Gillian Ditch; this is coming from east and west. This is where we put the tile in, and then it turns back into an open ditch about 60 feet from where the building would be,” Mr. Beasy explained.


“So is it the J. Downey or the Gillian?” Board member Heimlich asked.


Surveyor Sterrett replied, “It’s the J. Downey Open.”


Mr. Beasy stated, “One of the things that we were going to incorporate into our construction is the building is 10 by 60. We were going to put an expansion joint in the concrete and pour hooks in so that we could hook on the concrete and slide it both ways if there was ever maintenance needed on the tile. That is why we were going to have a floating pad design.”


“It’s up to the Drainage Board as to whether or not they want to do that. I can put that together. I can draft Consent to Encroach that includes those provisions if you want. Just out of curiosity, my questions is why that particular spot?” Attorney Loy stated.


Mr. Beasy explained, “We incorporated that into our existing shooting complex because we have placed safety barrier around the entire shooting complex that keeps everyone out of the back side because we have firearms in use. It ties into to what we already have and it allows us to expand that safety net minimally to impact operations at Scout Camp. So it ties in our shooting sports all in the same area and keeps everything compact at camp.”


Attorney Loy stated, “And we did Consent to Encroach, I think you referred to it a while ago…”


Mr. Beasy stated, “Yes, we built an indoor shooting complex. I might add that in the first ten months of that building’s operation we put 1,500 kids through there. We are now hosting groups from other councils and counties, 20 at a time, in cooperation with DNR. So, we’ve got even smaller kids learning shooting sports getting them drawn into the scouting experience.”


Board member Burton asked, “When you buried that…that was all new tile or culvert?”


“Yes, that was 18 inch smooth core so it’s the double wall, its real heavy tile,” Mr. Beasy stated.

Board member Burton made a motion, with Attorney Loy coming up with the legal terminology, to allow the encroachment of the Boy Scout Camp on the J. Downey Tile. Board member Heimlich seconded the motion. Motion carried unanimously.


Attorney asked, “Who is your president or…?”


Mr. Triplett replied, “The Scout Executive is Ed Caldwell.”


The next item on the agenda is Cost Share on the O. K. Rainier. Dan Davis, District Conservationist for the Nature Resources Conservation Service in White County explained, “The reason I wanted to come talk to you today is that we are putting together plans for a waterway, actually a rebuild on a waterway, on the property owned by Lawrence Strantz or Jerry Strantz, southeast of Chalmers. We are in the process of these plans and there is a diagram the water control structure that we would like to put in at the end of that waterway, which happens to be at the beginning of the county ditch there. The one that is there presently is being undermined, the water is trying cut under it and around it and when we re-do this waterway we’d like to redo the structure there as well. The proposal is to go through a federal program, Conservation Reserve Program, to cost share on the rebuild of the waterway and cost share partially on the structure and what I was wondering was, in the process, would the county be willing to provide some financial assistance to the landowner for that structure there as well. It is by far the most costly part of the project; it would solve our erosion problems and would fit nicely into the banks of that ditch there. It looks like the estimated cost is about $10,550.00. As part of the federal program, the landowner can get up to 50% of the cost share on that. So, as you can see if is fairly cost prohibitive. Unfortunately, with the amount of drainage that is coming down that area, it is going to be a big structure.”


Chairman Schmierer asked, “Does that go into the Rainier?”


“Yeah, there is a county tile that comes from Chalmers. It comes down that waterway right there and it outlets there at the rock chute. Do you want to change the rock chute?” Surveyor Sterrett asked.


“Yeah, it’s going to have to come out because there really is no way to fix it with the way it is being undermined presently,” Mr. Davis stated.


Surveyor Sterrett stated, “In 2004 I believe, they put this waterway in and we cost shared with them then. I think it was 90/10 then.”


“It probably was,” Mr. Davis stated.


“You said we…was that the Rainier that paid that?” Board member Heimlich asked.


“Yes, because the tile is under the waterway or close to it anyway,” Surveyor Sterrett stated.


Board member Heimlich stated, “Now wait a minute, the tile…”


Chairman Schmierer stated, “The tile comes down now under the waterway.”


“And that is the Rainier, the tile or the ditch?” Board member Heimlich asked.


Surveyor Sterrett replied, “Both.”


“So, the tile is regulated but the waterway isn’t, like most of them. And when you talk about the landowner…are we just talking about the landowner where the structure is? How much other ground is involved in there?” Board member Heimlich asked.


“The grass waterway starts at the property line of Mr. Strantz and the tile, as I understand, runs all the way up to close to Chalmers,” Board member Heimlich stated.


“It includes a lot of other landowners?” Board member Heimlich asked.


“Yes,” Surveyor Sterrett replied.


Attorney Loy stated, “When you say you are asking for financial contribution from the county…”


“I think he is talking about the O. K. Rainier; that is where the money would come from?” Board member Heimlich asked.


“Where on that ditch?” Attorney Loy asked.


“This would solely be used for the tile or the ditch, not necessarily…it helps the waterway, but even if the waterway was there…we still might be doing that work as it transitions from tile to…and have some kind of cost there regardless or whether...,” Board member Burton stated.


“You’d have to have some kind of head wall,” Chairman Schmierer stated.


“You are asking are asking for what?” Board member Heimlich asked.


“I was asking if the Drainage Board would be willing to provide any sort of assistance to it. We looked at…there are a couple of options, we can either do this structure here or we can do another grouted rock structure but it will be a good bit larger than the one that is there presently. The project is to…the waterway is going to be wider and in order to handle the amount of water that is coming down there we need a pretty fair size structure to keep it from happening again,” Mr. Davis explained.


Surveyor Sterrett explained, “The tile runs from here, the south side of Chalmers, runs down through there and the outlet is over here on Strantz’s ground.”


“This will have a benefit to more than just Strantz’s ground though, won’t it or not?” Chairman Schmierer asked.


“I would say it would,” Surveyor Sterrett replied.


“Well, I mean the structure is on his ground but we’d have to have some kind of headwall there to handle the tile anyway,” Board member Heimlich stated.


Mr. Davis stated, “And then the surface water, we had something like 370 some acres of surface drainage that is coming down to that point.”


Board member Burton stated, “It’s on his property, but we have other water…”


“Right, that’s what I said,” Chairman Schmierer stated.


“How much is in the fund?” Chairman Schmierer asked.


“$10,495.00,” Surveyor Sterrett replied.


“And what did you say that headwall was going to cost?” Chairman Schmierer asked.


“$10,550.00,” Mr. Davis replied.


“Well, but there is going to be federal funds,” Chairman Schmierer stated.


Mr. Davis stated, “We can go up to 50% for the CRP program.”


“What type of structure is it going to be?” Surveyor Sterrett asked.


“An aluminum toe wall,” Mr. Davis stated.


“It’s our drain, it’s our head wall,” Chairman Schmierer stated.


Surveyor Sterrett explained, “We actually made a repair on that back in 2004 on that rock chute. I don’t think it held up. We put a footing in front of it and tied it to the rip rap itself. Like I say, we cost shared on constructing it.”


Board member Heimlich asked, “Is this designed to keep the silt out of the ditch?”


“No, it’s not designed to filter. I guess that is the idea behind having the grass on the drain,” Mr. Davis explained.


“The surface water is being filtered with grass, but it’s not going to filter the water in the tile,” Chairman Schmierer.


“What if we said yes, but didn’t tell you how much?” Board member Burton asked.


Mr. Davis stated, “That would be a start. The landowner hasn’t agreed to go forward with this yet. That is the reason that I am here because he is looking at that cost and it’s kind of steep.”


“Right now it would be the amount, but I think all three of us (Drainage Board) is at the ‘yes’ point. Do you need a dollar amount today?” Board member Burton asked.


Mr. Davis replied, “No, would you suggest that they come after the installation or? What would your suggestion be, before they put it in, maybe potentially next month?”


“Well, tie it up and see what you are going to get federal so we actually know how much is going to have to be spent by the county or the landowner,” Chairman Schmierer stated.


“If the county does the work, you’re going to have to bid it,” Attorney Loy stated.


Chairman Schmierer stated, “Right, if we pay the cost we have to bid it out. Talk to him and see what he wants to do, but…”


“We would be willing to participate,” Board member Heimlich stated.


“But I’m not sure we want to spend the whole $5,000.00 or…,” Chairman Schmierer stated.


Mr. Davis asked, “I guess my question is then…if they have a private contractor come in and rebuild the waterway, the tile runs parallel with the waterway, just for the waterway’s drainage to keep the bottom of it dry so the grass can get established…are you saying that it’s not an option to have that contractor to build the structure at the end or?”


“He could, but he would just have to bid on it. We have to have bids if we use county money,” Chairman Schmierer.


“On this amount, it could be just quotes, right Attorney Loy?” Board member Heimlich asked.


“It would be quotes,” Attorney Loy stated.


“It could be quote, not a sealed bid,” Board member Heimlich stated.


“I believe they did in 2004,” Surveyor Sterrett stated.


“If that will help you, that is where we’ll leave that,” Chairman Schmierer stated.


Mr. Davis stated, “Ok, thank you. I appreciate that.”


“Thank you,” Chairman Schmierer stated.


Chairman Schmierer recognized Joe Mowrer, City of Monticello Wastewater Superintendent. Mr. Mowrer explained, “The city would like a memo of understanding or a right to encroach on the John Day Tile Drain. The city would like to up size the tile drain and the city would do this at no expense to the county.”


“I thought you were in here on that once,” Chairman Schmierer stated.


Mr. Mowrer stated, “Well, I need a letter now.”


Attorney Loy stated, “Just a review, this was the John Day Tile Drain that was established some time ago. It’s not under assessment right now or maintenance, right?”


“Not on maintenance,” Surveyor Sterrett stated.


“Yeah, that can be done. You can grant the city permission to go on the right-of-way,” Attorney Loy stated.


“I think we already did that, he just needs a letter now saying that we would do that,” Chairman Schmierer stated.


Attorney Loy stated, “The city of pursuing easements from the landowners as well for… what exactly?”


Mr. Mowrer explained, “It will be the storm drain down the south side of South Street to the John Day Tile Drain easement, once we get to that we’ll stay within the county easement.”


“One question I had was whether or not it ought to be set up on maintenance with the maintenance assessment 100% to the city. How many landowners?” Attorney Loy asked.


“Basically on this, two on the south side of South Street. At one point in time, it ran almost to the railroad tracks,” Mr. Mowrer explained.


“It probably drains up to Ohio Street now,” Surveyor Sterrett stated.


Attorney Loy asked, “So what you are seeking is permission from the county to enter upon the county’s right-of-way to perform this work.”


“Correct,” Mr. Mowrer stated.


Attorney Loy replied, “That can easily been accomplished.”


“I think we agreed to that,” Board member Heimlich.


“We agreed to that. I now need a letter to mail off with all of your signatures, or a signature,” Mr. Mowrer stated.


“We’ll get it for you,” Chairman Schmierer stated.


“Thank you,” Mr. Mowrer stated.


Surveyor Sterrett reported that the Jasper County/White County Joint Drainage Board meeting as been set up for March 9, 2009 for the Owen-Denton Drain at the Jasper County Courthouse.


The item for discussion is Horizon Wind Energy/Meadow Lake Wind Farm.


“We want to give you an update,” Mr. Culik stated.


Mr. Cargill explained, “I got the drainage plan to Surveyor Sterrett and we’d like to review them and then we’ll be at the next meeting and see where we go from there.”


Attorney Loy stated, “Now, are those the drainage plans contemplated under the Road…”


Mr. Culik stated, “For the Substation and Laydown Yard.”


“Do we have the road plans?” Board member Heimlich stated.


Mr. Culik stated, “Yes, we have an update on the road and transportation. One is for transportation of components and the other one is material haul.”


“Does Steve Brooke (County Highway Superintendent) have these?” Board member Heimlich asked.


“No, we need to get those to him,” Mr. Culik stated. Board member Heimlich gave his copies to Superintendent Brooke.


“Are the engineering plans done?” Board member Heimlich asked.


Mr. Cargill stated, “They’re not done yet. The issue for construction plans ought to come out this week and that is what we were holding up until we got the issue for construction plans to send them. They are noted to send a copy to Steve (Brooke).”


“When are you going to start on the roads?” Chairman Schmierer asked.


Mr. Cargill replied, “We would like to start…but it doesn’t look like we’re going to, but we would like to start the 9th (of March). It looks like we may push back another week, but that’s when we tentatively want to start. I’d like to get with Steve (Brooke) and look at 600S.”


“And that is why you have been talking to us about that bond. That needs to be…by that time,” Attorney Loy stated.


“I got an update this morning. They are still sorting out at corporate whether we’re going to issue separate bonds or whether we’re going to try to issue one. The lady I was trying to reach on Friday was out for the afternoon, so we’ll get back to you on that,” Mr. Culik stated.


Surveyor Sterrett asked, “Do you want Todd (Frauhiger) to review the plans?”


“Well, we’d like to see them and then we can make the judgment after that,” Board member Burton stated.


Chairman Schmierer stated, “We’ll look at them and then let you know.”


“Anything else?” Board member Burton asked.

Mr. Cargill stated, “We’re having a landowner’s meeting tomorrow if any of you would like to come.”


“Frontier High School at 7:00 p.m. We invited all the landowners including homeowners in the project area,” Mr. Culik stated.


Mr. Cargill stated, “What it is, is that before we start construction we always get all the landowners together and give a slide presentation and show them what it’s going to look like during construction and after construction.”


Chairman Schmierer asked if there was anything further for the Drainage Board.


Board member Burton asked, “What is our biggest timeline issue right now?”


“The biggest…what we’re needing right now is the lay down yard drainage looked at and approved….get a waiver or whatever we’re going to get there. The substation will be next,” Mr. Cargill stated.


“Well, bring them out,” Board member Burton stated.


“What we’ll do starting tomorrow…we didn’t have these so we couldn’t go to them, but we’ll get the Hageman’s to buy off on this and then Roemer, I don’t think we need his…,” Mr. Cargill stated.


Mr. Culik stated, “No, these are both signed.”


“Where is the pond at?” Mr. Cargill stated.


“We’ll get you a letter from the Hageman’s…that they looked at the plans and they found it acceptable or not. I don’t know if we need anything from Roemer because he’s actually part of these two parcels are the ones that are taking water that way,” Mr. Cargill explained.


Chairman Schmierer asked, “What about the guy with the pond?”


“It’s being purchased,” Mr. Cargill replied.


Mr. Cargill explained, “The majority of the water would be filtered through the pea gravel. Then it shows our silt fence detail.”


“This is the presumed only outlet off of this property and the water around it is going to stay…,” Board member Burton stated.


“It’s going to come this way,” Mr. Cargill stated.


“Will this area ever reach this berm? The reason I ask is because there is a guy standing over there that monetarily will answer that question,” Board member Burton asked.


Mr. Cargill explained, “I don’t know what their design is based off of or how many years…”


“What designed it?” Engineer Frauhiger asked.


“Farnsworth Engineering from Illinois,” Mr. Culik stated.


“I spoke with them a couple times on this,” Engineer Frauhiger stated.


“It doesn’t give us the height of the berm, does it?” Mr. Cargill questioned.


“These should have reference to…the 100 year event, right?” Board member Burton asked.


“Yes, they should reference it somewhere,” Mr. Cargill stated.


“It was on that earlier one that Surveyor Sterrett had,” Board member Burton stated.


“Is this a detention pond?” Engineer Frauhiger asked.


“No, you’re not calling it a detention pond. You’re calling it a sedimentation basin…outlet,” Mr. Culik stated.


Chairman Schmierer stated, “It’s going into an already existing pond.”


“It’s just a temporary lay down yard and there is nothing permanent to it. It’s a matter of…you are going to use the lot, basically it’s going to be…,” Board member Burton stated.


“Impermeable surface,” Mr. Culik stated.


“I think when I talked to Farnsworth; the lay down yard is on an area that is already gravel. So, there wouldn’t be any change in hydrolic conditions. This is basically to keep the sedimentation on site, but the question is if that berm high enough because you’ll short circuit the thing if you over top it,” Engineer Frauhiger stated.


Board member Burton stated, “That is why I thought they would have specs confirming that this would…that they have established this at this height I assume they had some reference why they made it that tall.”


“We’ll look at it and see…we’ll get them to clarify. We’ll get them to re-look at this, it doesn’t make sense,” Mr. Cargill stated.


“Where I am going with all of this, Mr. Culik, is not to delay but to make sure we’re covered on both ends as we move forward,” Board member Burton stated.


“That’s why….we want to make sure that everyone is covered. We don’t want to do something out there, because we want to use that pond and we don’t want to do something that is counterproductive to us and dump a bunch of silt and stuff in there where we can’t use the pond. They need to go back and look at their design because…,” Mr. Cargill explained.


“Well, as soon as he taps the gavel then we’re kind of out here for a while and I’m trying to bridge between where we’re at right now and…,” Board member Burton stated.


“We don’t meet again until March 16th....two weeks,” Chairman Schmierer stated.


“Which is after when you want to start, that’s where my concern is,” Board member Burton stated.


“I’m trying to save you a few bucks here, but the best thing might be here…and it will make everyone feel better is when he (Engineer Frauhiger) reviews there is a cost involved. But, what we could do here, and I think legal will confirm this, is we can pass this with the idea that tomorrow they can send Engineer Frauhiger the plans and if he says he ok, then we’re ok, but there will be a fee involved,” Board Member Burton stated.


“It’s just a $2,000.00 review submittal and what’s not used is returned to you at the end,” Engineer Frauhiger stated.


“I thought we were waived last week?” Mr. Culik asked.


Board Member Burton stated, “Well, but we don’t see anything…why I’m suggesting this is right now, officially as a committee, we can waive this but we don’t see a completed set of plans to base this off of.”


“I thought the waiver was at the last meeting,” Mr. Culik stated.


Attorney Loy stated, “That was Consent to Encroach, I don’t recall any waivers…”


Board Member Burton stated, “We talked about a waiver on a drainage plan, but...”


“Right, we’re bringing these because we want you to see what we’re doing, but I thought we were waived as far as getting reviewed and approved,” Mr. Culik stated.


Chairman Schmierer explained, “But I think we told you to get us a plan and we could waive it, but I don’t think we’ll waive it.”


Board Member Burton stated, “If they throw you a good set of plans, Engineer Frauhiger, what do you think the cost would be?”


“A day of time, 8 hours, but it will be way less than $2,000.00,” Engineer Frauhiger stated.


“Do you need the check right now? Or when we present a clean set of plans?” Mr. Cargill asked.


“Let me remove myself and have the other two reflect on this…,” Board Member Burton stated.


Chairman Schmierer stated, “You don’t need to remove yourself because we’re not comfortable with it. We’re not going to pass; we’re not going to give you a waiver. Now, the only other thing we could do is we could come back later in the week and have a Drainage Board meeting, but we have to advertise it.”


“We’d have to give 48 hours notice,” Board Member Heimlich stated.


“So, if you can get them back where we can come on Thursday or Friday morning,” Chairman Schmierer stated.


Board Member Burton stated, “If you can show us these numbers we’re asking for. What we started with was if you could convince us on layman’s terms that we’re ok here with these numbers…”


“Then we weren’t going to use Engineer Frauhiger to do that. If we thought you had Farnsworth doing it, we were just trying to help you,” Chairman Schmierer stated.


“And right now I’m not comfortable seeing…,” Board Member Burton stated.


Mr. Cargill stated, “I’m not comfortable either. I’ll have them back to you Wednesday morning.”


“Well, let’s just go to work; put notice in the paper for a Drainage Board Meeting on Friday morning (March 6th) at 8:30 a. m.,” Chairman Schmierer stated.


Attorney Loy stated, “The agenda item will be Review of Horizon Wind Energy/Meadow Lake Wind Farm drainage plans.”


“You understand what we need, right? You can communicate that to Farnsworth,” Board Member Burton stated.


“Yes, I will. And if they have any questions, is it alright if they communicate with him (Engineer Frauhiger) because a lot of times it’s easier to go straight to the source to get your information. I understand what we need, but sometimes its better if I have then communicate directly,” Mr. Cargill replied.


“Again, to clarify this here is that we proceed on the same page. I was trying to save you a couple bucks right there, if the $1,400 isn’t a problem, he can become involved from the very beginning. We’ll still go the same route, it will be just as quick, but I’m just trying to cheaper it up to be honest,” Board Member Burton stated.


Mr. Culik stated, “Well, we want you to be happy.”


Mr. Cargill added, “And at this point in the game, $1,400 is nothing compared to a contractor sitting all day.”


“Timing is more critical at this point,” Mr. Culik stated.


“Well, if we involve him from day one we can…within a day and half those two will have it all worked out,” Board member Burton stated.


Engineer Frauhiger stated, “I can come back and hopefully present it Friday for an approval.”


“Yes, the inter-connect also,” Mr. Culik stated.


“These I feel comfortable with. They are a better set of plans,” Mr. Cargill stated.


“We looked at this for about 15 seconds before the meeting. Detention pond…it looks like there’s an outlet with a couple of 16 inch pipes, I thought I saw some place,” Engineer Frauhiger stated.


“I think they are 24 inch, that’s 16 foot,” Surveyor Sterrett stated.


Engineer Frauhiger continued, “I’m not quite sure where they are discharging to, it looks like they discharge through the berm on to a rip-rap. This must be an electric easement. It would just be a surface discharge.”


“And I agree with Surveyor Sterrett, the one we saw down there is showing 16 feet long but they are 24 inch in diameter and that’s not going to slow much water coming out,” Board Member Burton explained.


“Quite honestly, this one has me more concerned than this other one. This one needed to be designed toward the Drainage Ordinance and when the guy called me from Farnsworth called me, he actually got a copy of the ordinance so that he could get the 2 and the 10 year discharges calculated and get the pond size correct,” Engineer Frauhiger stated.


Mr. Culik stated, “This one is Burns-McDonnell, this is not Farnsworth.”


“Did Burns and McDonnell get the Drainage Ordinance from you?” Engineer Frauhiger asked.


“I don’t think so,” Surveyor Sterrett stated.


“Burns-McDonnell is doing the inter-connect substation. Farnsworth is doing the access road into it, so it’s a hybrid,” Mr. Culik stated.


Engineer Frauhiger “Who owns this property?”


“This is Halstead, Yvonne and Clyde Halstead,” Mr. Culik stated.


“It would have been Mark Alba,” Mr. Cargill stated.


Surveyor Sterrett replied, “Then yes, he did get a copy of the ordinance.”


“Yeah, I spoke with Mark,” Engineer Frauhiger stated.


Mr. Cargill explained, “Actually, what this is…there is a low coming through here and it’s just running and continues on and then turns and goes to the south and then crosses the property. And what they’re doing is gathering all this water up, bringing it through here and into this retention and coming out and taking it out.”


Board Member Burton asked, “So this landowner’s water will come around this property?”


Mr. Cargill explained, “It’ll come…what we’re gathering up from right here back this way to this way is all coming through and it coming into this other pond or this dry pond and it will be let out here. Is there another plan there?”


“The Surveyor talked about this being the natural course of water coming through here. You’re showing getting rid of this…does this address this water?” Board Member Burton asked.


Engineer Frauhiger explained, “I don’t know. What they are allowed to do, in their detention calculation, they are allowed to pass the upstream water undetained; they are just responsible for containing their portion of the 10 and 2. But the other problem too is, like I told Mr. Alba when I talked to him, we’re going to a point source and the water coming out of two 24 inch pipes downstream is a heck of a lot different than water sheet flowing from up because you have more of a water cannon effect type thing.”


“See what they are doing is the water is coming this way and this way and they are gathering it all up. We have a place to keep the water flow to where it’s coming around this way. We’re going to have to place 4 to 4 ½ foot of fill out on these outer limits out here,” Mr. Cargill stated.


“These should be a good set of plans here, I’m not worried about these,” Mr. Cargill stated.


“Well, if these are good and you want to pursue it this way, you (Engineer Frauhiger) can just take these,” Board Member Burton stated.


“Do you want these or do you want them electronic?” Mr. Cargill asked.


Engineer Frauhiger replied, “I’m here and they are here, I’ll just take them with me.”


Chairman Schmierer stated, “We’ll see you Friday morning then.”


Chairman Schmierer asked if there was anything further for the Drainage Board. Chairman Schmierer then adjourned the meeting.