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June 1, 2009 Tape #12

The White County Drainage Board convened at 10:30 A. M. in the Commissioners’ Room of the White County Building, Monticello, Indiana. Board members present were: President Ronald Schmierer, Vice President Steve Burton, and Drainage Board Member John Heimlich. Also present were the White County Drainage Board Attorney George Loy, Surveyor Dennis Sterrett, Drainage Assistant Mary Sterrett and Secretary Jamie Rozzi.

Others in attendance were Charlie Mellon, James Hallar, Ron Byroad, Terry Beasy, Erin Marconett, Tina Bernacchi and Jerry Altman.

The first item on the agenda was to approve the minutes from the May 18th, 2009 meeting. Board Member Heimlich so moved. Board Member Burton seconded the motion. Motion carried unanimously.


The next item on the agenda is the Loretta Shepeard Landowner’s Meeting. Surveyor Sterrett explained, “Back on May 6th, 2009 we got a call from Mr. Byroad that there were some tile holes on the Shepeard tile. So, we sent a work order to Ross Hardebeck and he did some investigating. I think there were 4 or 5 tile holes and he also found that the tile was plugged with sand. There is some open ditch on it. Here is 400 East and 400 North. You can see that there is an open ditch that was put in and it was cleaned in 1979. I don’t know when it was put in.”


Mr. Byroad stated, “I would say (the ditch was constructed in) 1972 or 1973.”


Surveyor Sterrett continued, “So, they evidently replaced the tile with an open ditch. Now Ross (Hardebeck) has four inspection holes about 300 feet apart and he says that it is full of sand. There is some water running through it, but not very much. The open ditch is standing full of water.”


Chairman Schmierer asked, “Where does that open ditch go to?”


Surveyor Sterrett replied, “I think it’s supposed to drain out into this tile, but we can’t find the outlet because the water is too high. I don’t know whether it’s at the end of it…”


Mr. Byroad stated, “It was in the end of it…and the ditch was put in, we tried to put in tile, but there was just so much quicksand and so deep we couldn’t keep it from floating. That’s when Jim Milligan was the surveyor and that’s when they dug the ditch.”


Surveyor Sterrett explained, “So, they started here at the tile, went east, south and then back east and tied into the tile again. Now there is no outlet for the water in this ditch because it’s plugged. There was a suck hole which Ross dug up and I looked at. It didn’t look like it had too much sand in it there. He repaired that hole and closed it back up and then we had him go back every 300 feet and dig inspection holes and that’s when he said the tile was full of sand. I didn’t get to see it because it rained right after he did it and the holes filled up with water.”


Chairman Schmierer asked, “What is your suggestion?”


Surveyor Sterrett stated, “I contacted Accu-Dig, they have a big jetter and he stopped in this morning. He thought that he could get out there and his fee was $1,500 a day maximum to jet it out.”


“How many feet do you think?” Board Member Burton asked.


“At least 1,000 feet…so, if he can reach 500 feet…he should be able to go in each of those inspection holes that we have dug,” Surveyor Sterrett stated.


Chairman Schmierer asked, “There aren’t any trees on it, is there?”


Surveyor Sterrett replied, “No, there’s no trees.”


Chairman Schmierer stated, “So, it’s probably just primarily sand. Did you say, Mr. Byroad, that it’s quicksand and that’s why they took that out of there?”


Mr. Byroad explained, “We went in there with an excavator and that tile…see, where we put that ditch in was probably close to 10-12 feet deep. You couldn’t dig a big enough hole and then it would be full of water. We tried to pump it, we even tried to put a steel culvert in 20 foot sections and we just couldn’t hold anything.”


Surveyor Sterrett stated, “Right now there is $2,900.00 in the fund.”


Chairman Schmierer asked, “What does that bring in a year?”


Surveyor Sterrett explained, “$1,193.00 and we raised it in 2003 from $2.00 to $4.00. So, I don’t know how much money Ross (Hardebeck) has in it right now, but 10 holes and you figure $200 a hole…it might take care of the fund. There are only 298 acres on it. I don’t know how many days it would take…you might spend $4,500 in jetting it out. You’d just have to go out there one day and see how it goes I guess; if we can get the truck out there.”


Board Member Burton asked, “How many landowners?”


There are seven landowners on the Loretta Shepeard Tile.


Board Member Burton explained, “Well, there are three alternatives. Leave it the way it is, it would be more cost effective it we could get it jetted out than replacing it. Replacing it would be worse case scenario.”


Chairman Schmierer stated, “That would be reconstruction so they would have to pay for…”


Surveyor Sterrett stated, “I’m guessing $25-$30 a foot to put new tile in.”


Mr. Byroad asked, “Would you have to go with that big of a tile? Could you cut it down to 12 inches?”


Surveyor Sterrett replied, “I didn’t check the watershed. That tile used to go on west and Mr. Hallar put in….you can see an open ditch. I don’t know whether…I’d have to run some calculations on it I guess.”


Board Member Burton asked, “Won’t you know the first day with the jetter whether or not it’s going to work, right?”


“I would think you would. I would think that would be the first thing, go out there and spend at least one day with him and you’ll know in the first two or three hours if it is going to be any good or not. So, you don’t spend money if you don’t have to. I don’t think just letting it go in an option,” Chairman Schmierer stated.


Mr. Altman stated, “We’d rather not.”


Chairman Schmierer stated, “I don’t think it’s an option.”


Surveyor Sterrett stated, “Some of the holes did dry up, didn’t they?”


Mr. Byroad replied, “Yeah, basically the water is out of the holes. But you get an inch rain and we’re back in the same place. It takes two weeks for it to dry up.”


Surveyor Sterrett asked, “Have you cropped it yet?”


Mr. Byroad replied, “Yeah, it’s in beans. I’ll sacrifice a little damage just to get some drainage. I doubt you’d want to pay the damages…”


Surveyor Sterrett asked, “Say we get it to work…do we continue on then? Do we get an estimate on how many days it’s going to take to get through there?”


Chairman Schmierer stated, “Yeah, I’d think so. If it’s 1,000 feet and he can go 500 feet at a time. I have no idea. I have never seen them…”


“I would think they could get 500 feet a day. 24 inch is a pretty big tile and you’re going to have a have a sump to collect all the sand that’s coming through it because you wouldn’t want it to go downstream. They can suck dirt out just as good as they can spray,” Surveyor Sterrett explained.


Chairman Schmierer stated, “I would say that presently that is the only option you’ve got; is to try to jet it and see where you go and then go from there. Everyone here knows that the expense of putting in new tile is prohibitive, but yet again you can’t farm it if you don’t have tile.”


Surveyor Sterrett stated, “And like Ron (Byroad) stated, you may not need a 24 inch now that a mile of that is cut off.”


Chairman Schmierer stated, “Well, you’d have to look at it and call that shot.”


Board Member Burton added, “There may be some point where the 24 inch is half full and if it’s functioning…”


Surveyor Sterrett stated, “I’m afraid that we’ll hit something with the tile tilted and we’ll have to go up there and dig it up and we’ll have to get a backhoe out there. That’s what I’m afraid of.”


Chairman Schmierer stated, “Well, he did say it was quick sand….that could be.”


Board Member Burton asked, “Are you ok with that, Erin (Marconett)?”


Ms. Marconett replied, “I guess so. I didn’t hear all the benefits for each group.”


Surveyor Sterrett stated, “You can have a copy of it if you want.”


Ms. Marconett asked, “That would be great. That would be the proportion as far as payment, correct?”


Surveyor Sterrett replied, “Well, it’s already on a maintenance fund and we’re not doing anything to the maintenance fund right now. This is just a landowner’s meeting.”


Board Member Burton explained, “We’re going to try to stay within the maintenance fund and not have…that’s the negative into replacing the tile, you’d be going into reconstruction. So, the mood is to try and stay within the maintenance fund and there are already some dollars in there.”


Ms. Marconett asked, “If it should go into more will there be another meeting?”


Surveyor Sterrett replied, “Yes, there has to be a hearing. There will be a ten day notice.”


Mr. Hallar asked, “If a new tile were put in would it drain the same acreage as this old tile?”


Surveyor Sterrett replied, “Yes. We’d probably have to put in east of the open part of the drain. I wouldn’t think you would need to north of the ditch, the open part, on you in other words. It’s hard to tell out there with all the water out there what needs to be done. As soon as we get some water drained off we can tell more about it.”


The next item on the agenda was to approve the petition for vacation of a portion of the George Bossung Drain.


Surveyor Sterrett explained, “Arni Dahlenburg wants to vacate this little part of the open ditch. We need to have a hearing on it and I got him to sign a petition for that part that he wants to vacate. It needs to approved.”


Board Member Heimlich made a motion to accept the petition for vacation of a portion of the George Bossung Drain. Board Member Burton seconded the motion. Motion carried unanimously.


The hearing is scheduled for July 6th.


The next item is a Consent to Encroach on the Harp-Helfrick. This property came before the White County Drainage Board back in September 2008. At that time they asked for a Consent to Encroach in order to rebuild their home that was destroyed in the flood. The house is completed, but they now want to construct a deck around the front and side.


Tina Bernacchi, representing the builders stated, “The elevations are from the flood.”


Surveyor Sterrett explained, “Here are the plans in 2008. They did build the house so now they want to add a deck to it that is 16 feet wide. So, it would be within 34 feet of the ditch now. We have a Consent to Encroach on the house that has been recorded. I guess…do we need another one, Attorney Loy?


Board Member Burton asked, “Where is this at?”


“North of Buffalo,” Surveyor Sterrett replied.


Attorney Loy asked, “The deck doesn’t give you any problem?”


Surveyor Sterrett explained, “As far as getting in there and working on the ditch? It looks like we’ve got 14 feet to get through there, but we’d have to go through private property. This is kind of like an island. There is a canal on the north end and a canal on the south end and the ditch on the east side.”


Chairman Schmierer asked, “Is there going to be enough room to work on the ditch if they put that in there?”


Surveyor Sterrett stated, “There will be enough room to work on it, but we can’t access it. We couldn’t access it anyway without getting on private property.”


Attorney Loy asked, “What private property are you talking about?”


Surveyor Sterrett replied, “Well, the road comes in here so you’d have to come in with your equipment around here.”


“Is that yours?” Attorney Loy asked Ms. Bernacchi.


Ms. Bernacchi replied, “It’s my customers.”


“It’s the people that are applying for the consent, right?” Attorney Loy asked.


“Right, Graddy,” Ms. Bernacchi replied.


Attorney Loy asked, “And they built what we gave them the consent to do?”


Surveyor Sterrett replied, “Exactly, and now they want to add a deck.”


Attorney Loy stated, “They would need a new one. They would understand that if any work had to be done that they might have to tear up their yard.”


Ms. Bernacchi explained, “I would understand it and I think they would too. They are pretty decent people and they know that is why they are here today is because there is an encroachment on the ditch. I think they would sign off on that if you needed them to.”


Attorney Loy stated, “I definitely would. I take it that it’s the northern part of the deck that would give us problems.”

Surveyor Sterrett explained, “Here is the regulated drain and the top of the bank. So, this is 50 feet to the house and we are going out another 16 feet. So then the consent would be 34 feet.”


Board Member Burton stated, “That is 30 more feet than most of that property across….unfortunately.”


Board Member Heimlich made a motion to approve the Consent to Encroach on the Harp-Helfrick to the Graddy’s for construction of a deck on their property. Board Member Burton seconded the motion. Motion carried unanimously.


The next item on the agenda is Liberty Landfill GTE Plant 2 drainage review.


Surveyor Sterrett explained, “They are building another generator plant south of the landfill, south of State Road 16 and 900 East.”


Chairman Schmierer asked, “Is that right across the street from the other one?”


Terry Beasy, representing Liberty Landfill explained, “No, east. It would be south of the landfill west of 900 E. Right out there by Don Anderson’s old log cabin that we bought.”


Chairman Schmierer asked, “So you’re able to take the gas from the landfill across the road?”


Mr. Beasy replied, “They are actually going to bore underneath the highway to get the gas over there.”


Chairman Schmierer asked, “What’s the life one of those generators from the landfill like that?”


Mr. Beasy replied, “This plant will run…if the landfill is at capacity in 2037, this will probably run until 2047 or 2057 depending on the gas curb at the landfill.”


Chairman Schmierer asked, “Is this going into the new cell or the old cell?”


Mr. Beasy explained, “This is set up to basically, if we put the gas pipes too close together they start fighting…they build vacuum and start surging. So, this is set up to be at the east end of the current landfill, tie into a gas header and it will also serve the new landfill as it comes on and the road vacates and that starts to build. More than likely you will see us six, eight, ten years down the road for Liberty 3 and the potential exist for up to and including Liberty 7 down the road at some point on the gas curb.”


Chairman Schmierer asked, “So that gas will go on for 10 years after you close the landfill?”


Mr. Beasy replied, “Yes, or longer. The maximum gas flow is achieved after seven years after final filling and it can taper off at 20 to 30 years on gas production depending on how the site is closed. This one is slated to go south, last I knew, and feed power to the Idaville Substation. Liberty 1 is running north to the Hintzman Substation out on State Road 39. The potential for Liberty 3 would be to go east and feed a substation out at Link Farms and then what we’d do with it from there depends on what REMC would like to do because that pretty well takes care of their substations in the area.”


Surveyor Sterrett asked, “So, you have 26 acres there?”


Mr. Beasy explained, “We have 26 acres, 11 of it is tillable. The rest of it is planted in alfalfa, timothy and orchard grass. It’s going to be kind of a deer browse area around it. We decided to put some deer browse across the road because we had about 16 deer hit there last year so we’re trying to get them to stay over and eat the alfalfa and hay instead of crossing and eating on the side of the landfill.”


Chairman Schmierer asked, “Has Todd (Frauhiger) reviewed these plans?”


Surveyor Sterrett replied, “Yes, he visited the site. I got an email from him this morning.”


Surveyor Sterrett read aloud the email from Engineer (Todd) Frauhiger: ‘I have completed the calculations and review of the above project. I have also spoken with Tim from StructurePoint. Based on upon this, I recommend the submitted plan for drainage approval.’


Chairman Schmierer asked, “No retention ponds or anything on here? Do they need it?”


Surveyor Sterrett replied, “No, I guess not. The site kind of drains off to the north and then there is a 10 inch culvert that restricts…so there might be some ponding water up front….I don’t know. ”


Mr. Beasy explained, “We’ve put some tile in there draining to the west into that private ditch that Anderson Ditch and there is a catch basin out next to the road. There is already a 10 inch main that comes into that low spot, runs a tile across there and then we have a six that runs up and wraps to the site with an airwell to take water off too. So, everything that is going into the State Road side ditch is going into our private tile and into the Downey Tile anyway because the state hasn’t done anything to fix their culvert crossing at that ditch. So, we are already taking that water ourselves anyway. We had originally looked at putting the gas plant on this corner, (Northeast corner of State Road 39 and 900 East intersection) but it crowded our expansion too much, so it was deemed that it would be better to put the gas plant here and bring the gas across the highway and keep that other land open for landfill expansion. The state side ditch drainage takes everything to here and they don’t have an outlet for their water until further down so we’re already taking everything off the state into our private tile and taking across.”


Board Member Burton made a motion to approve the drainage plans for Liberty Landfill GTE Plant 2. Board Member Heimlich seconded the motion. Motion carried unanimously.


The next item on the agenda is NRCS culvert crossing on the Phebus Tile on Springboro Road. Surveyor Sterrett read aloud a letter received from the Carroll County NRCS Office. Our office is working with YMCA Camp Tecumseh to install a culvert crossing on a small stream on property they recently purchased. Please see the enclosed drawing. I believe that this drain is an outlet for a legal drain in White County named Phebus Tile. The site of the proposed culvert is downstream from the legal drain and not within the watershed boundaries. Our engineers have designed a project to allow for free flow of water through the pipe and should not cause problems upstream. However, we would like for you and the Drainage Board to review the plan prior to the installation.’


Surveyor Sterrett explained, “I think it’s about 700 feet downstream from the outlet of the Phebus Tile.”


Chairman Schmierer asked, “Is it right on the road?”


Surveyor Sterrett replied, “No, it’s on the west side of Springboro about halfway up towards the tile is where the crossing is going in.”


Chairman Schmierer asked, “Have you been out to look at it? Do you think it’s acceptable?”


Surveyor Sterrett replied, “Yes, I think it is. There is seven 7/10 percent fall on the ditch…plenty of grade. Where they are putting the crossing there is plenty of fall there and I don’t see where they would interrupt the flow of the tile any.”


Chairman Schmierer stated, “Well, if you’re ok with it, that’s the main thing.”


Attorney Loy addressed the board, “On these Consents to Encroach, always I prepared them with the Drainage Board signing them. You may if you want, by a vote, authorize the Surveyor to execute them so the board doesn’t have to be chased down or come in later to sign it….it doesn’t matter to me, for convenience sake. For my purposes, I would recommend that you authorize the Surveyor to do it for only those that you approve.”


Board Member Burton made a motion to authorize the Surveyor to execute the Consent to Encroach agreements approved by the White County Drainage Board. Board Member Heimlich seconded the motion. Motion carried unanimously.


Chairman Schmierer asked if there was anything further for the Drainage Board. Chairman Schmierer