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met June 15, 2009 Tape #13

The White County Drainage Board convened at 10:30 A. M. in the Commissioners’ Room of the White County Building, Monticello, Indiana. Board members present were: President Ronald Schmierer, Vice President Steve Burton, and Drainage Board Member John Heimlich. Also present were the White County Drainage Board Attorney George Loy, Surveyor Dennis Sterrett, Drainage Assistant Mary Sterrett and Secretary Jamie Rozzi.

Others in attendance were Engineer Todd Frauhiger, John Mandeville representing Kraybill Farms, Nathan Waggner for Cash Waggner & Associates, Tim Edwards for Ramsey Development, Charlie Mellon, Charles Tribbett, David Cantoni, Rick Roach, David Rosenbarger, and Sharon Watson.

The first item on the agenda was to approve the minutes from the June 1st, 2009 meeting. Board Member Heimlich so moved. Board Member Burton seconded the motion. Motion carried unanimously.


Chairman Schmierer amended the order of items on the agenda at the request of Engineer Frauhiger. The first item to discuss was the John Unroe Drain in Wolcott.


Engineer Frauhiger explained, “I attended an INDOT Informational Meeting in Wolcott a couple weeks ago. I’m not sure if there is anyone from that meeting here or not, but the proposed INDOT project on US 24 was discussed. The plans right now are in a very, very preliminary stage. They have a rough profile of the road set and they know approximately what their drainage patterns and drainage rates are going to be. There is some new storm sewer that is going to be installed and it’s going to go into the ditch portion of the John Unroe Drain. They have decided to stay out of the 24 inch tile portion completely, but as of this point they haven’t got that storm sewer sized or the exact location of it determined yet. They are in the process of doing that. I am working with the design engineer from INDOT to finalize the location of the storm sewers. I have a copy of the plan sheet that was done in 1999. You can see US 24…and the portion that is highlighted is the portion under US 24 where we have a videotape from 10 years ago that shows that shows that portion is collapsed. INDOT has agreed as part of their project to put those two new structures in and replace the pipe under US 24. We have another portion of pipe from US 24 to the east over to Burke Street which the videotape shows 10 years ago that it was in extremely poor shape. There are places where the pipe had completely quartered at the top and you could actually see gravel on the videotape. There are a couple other places in that stretch of pipe where the pipe is laid off grade and the camera actually went underwater for a period of time because there was water in the pipe even though some of the pipe was dry. So, we had determined that we would replace that portion of pipe and then go upstream to the west and basically replace the portion of pipe past the elevator because that portion was in bad shape too…but we were waiting on the INDOT project to figure it all out. In the time period we’ve been waiting, but we’ve had a blow hole develop on the 24 inch pipe right in this area.”


Surveyor Sterrett added, “Actually there have been two, 2003 and 2006.”


Chairman Schmierer asked, “Is that part of what we replaced back in 1999?”


Engineer Frauhiger replied, “No, this is all further to the east…just to the east of what we replaced. Now, in 2009 we’ve had our first blow hole in that section down there. It’s not in the concrete pipe it’s in the clay pipe. If you remember what we did was that we cleaned it, videoed it, it looked in good shape, we left the new 24 inch pipe in place but it was laid off grade and we had the existing clay underneath the road. So, now we have our first blow hole on that one and I think Surveyor Sterrett said that it was being repaired as we speak.”


Surveyor Sterrett explained, “It will be worked on tomorrow. So, even though we’ve got a new tile in there the old one is still there and it must be collapsing now.”


Engineer Frauhiger stated, “Ten years ago, the tape on that showed it was full of roots but the pipe was in good shape…that was ten years ago, the date on the tape was 1999. Quite honestly, that section of pipe…I don’t think any of this pipe, except for the two blowholes we had downstream of that has been looked at in ten years. Earlier this year they had a pretty severe flood that basically affected downstream of US 24. There were a number of houses along this street where the water was so deep that the traffic on US 24 would cause wave action that would actually come into the doors of the houses; it was actually that deep. It took a number of days to drain away. So, the town is convinced that this portion of pipe is in need of replacement and I said that we agreed. We knew ten years ago that it was in rough shape and we planned to replace it. After the meeting, talking with the INDOT contractor and the INDOT consultant, one alternative is to go ahead and since INDOT is going to pay for this portion of pipe, make a determination on how far downstream you want to go which I would say Burke Street and how far upstream you want to go and just put it in the INDOT bid package. So, INDOT would bid the project. INDOT’s contractor would put whatever pipe we decide to have put in and the county would reimburse INDOT for that portion of work. I think that would be simpler than trying to put our own bid packet out.”


Chairman Schmierer asked, “How long is it going to be before INDOT does that?”


Engineer Frauhiger stated, “They want to go to bid in November and the town would like to have construction started next spring. They have almost all of the right-of-way secured and I would say that the plans are 40 to 50 percent complete right now. So, what we would do is we would finalize this plan sheet, we make a determination of how far west we would go with the new pipe, and then we would actually put that plan sheet into their bid package and they would have a separate line item on their bid so we would know exactly what it would cost. One thing that Surveyor Sterrett and I talked about that we don’t really know is how to pay for the street repair. Before, the town had paid for the street repair and the drainage watershed paid for the pipe.”


Chairman Schmierer asked, “You don’t think the town will do anything now or not?”


Engineer Frauhiger replied, “I’m not sure. I didn’t bring it up with them that night.”


Surveyor Sterrett stated, “They have been repairing…after the repair of the tile we bring it up to the street with gravel and they have been blacktopping it, but that’s just patching 50 feet or so.”


Chairman Schmierer, “They would probably still do the same if we talk to them.”


Surveyor Sterrett, “So we’re going to have to have a hearing…reconstruction…we’re going to have to get an estimate and have a Reconstruction Hearing to get funds to do it.”


Chairman Schmierer asked, “So do you have a petition for Reconstruction?”


Engineer Frauhiger replied, “I told the town that would be the first step. They are going to get with Surveyor Sterrett to get that thing filed.”


Board Member Heimlich asked, “Do you have a ballpark figure of what the cost is going to be?”


Engineer Frauhiger stated, “$140 a foot and about 600 feet…and that would get that portion and depending on what we did on the portion going upstream.”


Chairman Schmierer stated, “I’d say get a hold of the town and tell them to get a petition on it so we can get a hearing started.”


Engineer Frauhiger stated, “If it’s ok with the drainage board I will tell the state and the state’s consultant that it would be our preference to go ahead and put it in their plan.”


Attorney Loy stated, “That’s fine with me.”


Chairman Schmierer stated, “I don’t see why not…that would be best.”


Engineer Frauhiger added, “Especially since that street is going to have to be rebuilt, we’ll have a road contractor that will be better suited to rebuild that street.”


Attorney Loy asked, “Is this one where the town pays the assessments?”

Surveyor Sterrett replied, “I think so, but if I read the minutes right in the 1999 Reconstruction they took the town off and put individual landowners on. The town’s treatment plant does drain into this tile so the town is putting a lot of water into it too.”


Engineer Frauhiger stated, “One other thing I’ll say, in working with the INDOT…this ditch, the Unroe portion of the ditch is also pretty inundated and it’s full quite a bit of the time so we’re trying to determine if there is enough capacity to dump their storm sewers into it. There is going to be more capacity than the tile…I don’t think they have any other choice, but there was some concern at the meeting from the landowners along that ditch that it’s just going to make the situation worse.”


Chairman Schmierer stated, “Ok, get the petition so we can start it.”


The next item on the agenda is Horizon Wind Energy Operations and Maintenance Facility Drainage Review in Chalmers.


Engineer Frauhiger explained, “State Road 43…this is just the south edge of Chalmers. It is a proposed maintenance and operations facility, my understanding is one of two or three for the wind farm. They are looking at two different watersheds and two different detention basins to control the flow from the site. It is roughly four acres. The first basin is up here in the corner and it will discharge through a 10 inch pipe into a rip-rap bed and go into an existing 12 inch pipe and into the roadway side ditch and eventually work its way down to a pipe underneath the road and underneath the railroad track. The second shed will come off this direction and drain into a detention pond down here through a pipe, into a rip-rap bed and then go surface and work it’s way back to the pipe under State Road 43 and ultimately under the railroad.”


Chairman Schmierer asked, “Is that surface drain going to go across the neighbor?”


Engineer Frauhiger stated, “At first, we were talking about whether that would make more sense to try and run that underground, but when we went out and looked at the situation with the existing tile system…the tile system is not a regulated drain in this area, it is a private tile. I don’t think it has the capacity available to try and put this underground. The good thing with the ordinance is that there is less water coming off the site then there is in the current conditions with the larger storms. So, while we turned it into a point source discharge…Surveyor Sterrett and I met with Dave (Rosenbarger) out at the site and I actually went back out, but correct me if I’m wrong, I think I’m pretty much right that the water is going to work it’s way back to State Road 43 and then underneath State Road 43 there is a concrete pipe at a higher elevation and then it looks like a 12 inch pipe that daylights right in that area so this water is going to get away under State Road 43 and utilize both the surface pipe and the subsurface pipe. Dave had indicated that portion of the field drains away fairly quickly; it’s just a little bit further upstream…there is a part back in here that floods. That part in there he said will flood and stay flooded for a number of days. I think, personally, the above ground discharge is the best solution. I don’t think there is any way to get it subsurface. I think after we talked they are pretty confident that is the best way to it.”


Mr. Rosenbarger stated, “The only thing…I talked to John and Linda, the owners last night. They did send a letter stating that it was ok, they would like to see Horizon put rip-rap where the 12 inch pipe comes out…they would give them permission to go on their land to funnel it to the highway instead of letting it wash out. We looked at that and it kind of naturally drains toward the airwell straight south, but if you looked at that if they cut a small swale and channel it to the road instead of letting it wash whichever direction…because if it goes to the west at all then it’ll go to that pond that goes to the north that doesn’t drain.”


Engineer Frauhiger stated, “I don’t see a problem with that, but you’re talking about a farmable waterway…”


Mr. Rosenbarger stated, “Just dish it out to where it will funnel it instead of…who knows where it’s going to go. With the 12 inch, especially you get much pressure…I don’t know how big of an area you are talking about rip-rap. They just asked if they would some way…if it is going across the land, get it to the highway.”


Engineer Frauhiger asked, “Is there anyone here from Horizon? I would be shocked if they have a problem with that.”


Mr. Rosenbarger stated, “They verbally said that they would do whatever it took.”


Board Member Burton explained, “The issue there is that they probably want to start to build this now and you have crops in the field.”


Mr. Rosenbarger stated, “Yeah, but the first big rain will take the crops out anyway if they don’t do something about it. As long as they are willing to work with us on some kind of a solution to channel it because I’m just afraid that it’ll blow a 12 inch out. Right now it comes off that hill in a big wide path and now we’re funneling it to a 12 inch outlet.”


Engineer Frauhiger explained, “The drainage calculations themselves are in good shape. They calculated the discharges correctly, the ponds are the right size, the drainage patterns are fine. I can recommend approval on the site drainage plan. I will get back in touch with the engineer…should I just have the engineer get in touch with you directly on how to get some type of path downstream?”


“Yeah,” Mr. Rosenbarger replied.


Engineer Frauhiger continued, “But I can’t believe they’d have a problem with that. I think it’s the same landowner that they are actually…so I shouldn’t think there should be any problem.”


Board Member Burton made a motion to approve the drainage review for Horizon Wind Energy Operations and Maintenance Facility in Chalmers. Board Member Heimlich seconded the motion. Motion carried unanimously.


The next item is the Simeon Davisson Tile Vacation Hearing.


Surveyor Sterrett explained, “We have approved this drainage plan for Ramsey Development for the nursing facility contingent upon getting the tile vacated. I’ve sketched in where I think the tile is based on the low ground out there. Actually, the Buss Ditch replaced the Simeon Davisson tile but in certain areas it’s still in. Back in the 60’s it was replaced, so this is the main tile and this is the branch that comes from Gordon Road. This is possibly a private tile I think Rick (Roach) knows something about where that comes from.”


Mr. Roach explained, “That was put in for the water tower overflow is what that was put in for. That’s the one that is there on Poncie’s. I don’t think it goes all the way to Buss Ditch, I think it actually hooks into the old drain. That’s how I remember it.”


Surveyor Sterrett stated, “I couldn’t see any indication where it hooks in. This tile is broken down over here to the west a little bit. It’s a concrete 15 inch I think. There is water in it. There might be some drainage up in here that connected to Branch #2 and that’s what Dr. Tribbett concern was if he was going to be cut off. I assume that Mr. Roach is here for that reason too.”


Attorney Loy explained, “Surveyor Sterrett and I had a chance to discuss this earlier when this came to his attention and we got in touch with the Commissioners. If that portion is going to be vacated then it needs to be rerouted.”


Surveyor Sterrett stated, “Without knowing where the tile is located you could have to pick up this water that is coming in from this branch and this water here. You can see its right in the middle of the site…”


Mr. Roach stated, “I’ve got it located there…the old branch is located in the side ditch. There is actually an airwell…I dug it up the other day and its there on the south side of the ditch. It basically comes straight across there and crosses Gordon Road and that would be your mark off of Gordon Road where it is coming across. I think you’ve got it pretty well marked. The top of the tile is 3 feet down from the bottom of the side ditch of that location. The other one basically goes straight north.”

Board Member Burton asked, “And to complicate this….didn’t you say that they were talking about future development in the southwest development?”


Surveyor Sterrett replied, “Yes.”


Attorney Loy asked, “What is your construction timetable?”


Tim Edwards replied, “Starting…”


Attorney Loy asked, “What work has to be done to get a firm grasp on where all of the tile is?”


Surveyor Sterrett replied, “I think we would have to dig it up and know exactly where its at and have some kind of plan prepared to get it to the ditch.”


Attorney Loy stated, “And the cost of rerouting the ditch would be on the nursing home owners.”


Dr. Tribbett explained, “I have another concern about this drain which I didn’t realize until I investigated. If I could I would like to show you some pictures if I could. We’re talking about Branch #2 of the Simeon Davisson. When I went to investigating this, come to find out it’s already been vacated out there on the tip and what’s happened, I assume, is that when Jordan Manufacturing went in and someone approved the drainage they put in a retention pond which actually cut…and the tile just comes over on my property and ends in that wet area.”


Chairman Schmierer asked, “Where does that tile go to then?”


Dr. Tribbett replied, “Currently it’s going into his drainage pond. So, looking from the southwest is where the tile come south and you are looking across the where the tile probably went. There are probably 20 or 30 yards, I can’t imagine that they would have missed that. So, here is where the tile comes out of my field about 12 feet onto Jordan’s property and Surveyor Sterrett cleaned out the tile. You can see it’s a concrete tile, but it’s clean. Last Wednesday night we had a light rain and Thursday afternoon it was running 7/8 of inch of water in the bottom of that tile, so it is still functional. One concern I have is…I’ve already been vacated actually, now I don’t like to bring problems without potential solutions. I have talked to Dave Jordan…he is ok with giving me written easement. My concern is that I am probably better off now than I ever was because it doesn’t have to go through the rest of that tile, that’s just coming out in his drainage ditch.”


Surveyor Sterrett stated, “That picture there is the outlet to that pond.”


Chairman Schmierer asked, “Where do you see the outlet there?”


Dr. Tribbett stated, “This is Mr. Jordan’s outlet for the overflow from the pond.”


Mr. Roach stated, “When that was being put in we were hoping…I was hoping to see that be below the level of the one we are talking about vacating, but that’s actually about halfway…where that entry is, it’s not quite as low as the existing…do you understand..”


Surveyor Sterrett stated, “This branch is two feet above the normal…”


Mr. Roach stated, “Where that came down in though and crossed into my property and where Jordan ended up putting that water retention pond and then he put in his overflow…that overflow pipe is actually probably six inches above grade of the old tile.”


Dr. Tribbett stated, “It was overflowing through pipe to drain that pond at the time I was out there and like I said I was still two feet above the water level. So, I’m fine with that my concern is for future, if you vacate this branch of the drain I have no legal easement from then on and who knows what could happen 5-10 years down the road if Jordan closed, that pond is in disrepair; I could be in problems.”


Chairman Schmierer stated, “That is why we are trying to put another route in to keep it open, that’s about all we can do.”


Mr. Roach stated, “The only reason I’m bringing the other point up is what I’m trying to say…when you reroute the other you should be actually below where you are seeing that entry of the water retention.”


Chairman Schmierer stated, “Below Jordan’s pond.”


Mr. Roach stated, “Yes, those two drains are real close.”


Surveyor Sterrett asked, “Are you talking about the private tile coming out?”


Mr. Roach replied, “No, I’m talking about Jordan’s tile that he ran straight north that goes, not into the property that’s in question about, but it’s still in the Kraybill property. What Charlie is questioning is does that even have a legal easement.”


Dr. Tribbett stated, “That’s my concern, if Mr. Jordan doesn’t have a legal easement through that property north of Gordon Road to Buss Ditch then…I can drain into him, but what’s going to happen when he’s gone.”


Attorney Loy asked, “What you’re talking about runs through Kraybill’s property?”


Mr. Roach replied, “Yes, it runs directly north and it’s not in the property that they are in question about. It would be just west of that wooded property that runs straight north along the west line of that and then dumps into the Buss Ditch. You’re property line is on east of that.”


Board Member Burton stated, “So you would be talking about paralleling on the Sixth Street side.”


Mr. Roach stated, “I don’t know if you’d be better off to come back west and then go straight north or…”


Board Member Burton stated, “Take even the one that is at the bottom, that’s not shown and taking that….everything west and across.”


Mr. Roach stated, “It looks to me like the one Dr. Tribbett and I are on, it makes more sense for it to go straight north because it’s not on their property there. You catch it north of Sixth Street, but the private one that the city put in, it looks to me like it would be better off going east and then west.”


Surveyor Sterrett stated, “That’s what I’m saying, that or run it around into the same point. I don’t know.”


Dr. Tribbett stated, “It seems like the cheapest alternative would just be to have then go on the west side of the nursing home property with a new legal easement, that’s got to be the cheapest. It can’t be more than 600 feet of tile that would have to be rerouted.”


Mr. Roach stated, “And maybe just dig right there parallel just off Gordon Road on the north side and bring that other one back that way…the one that’s there on Poncie’s.”


Board Member Burton stated, “You’re not going to know until you catch grade on those.”


Chairman Schmierer stated, “Well, I think we’re just going to have to give Surveyor Sterrett time to go out and shoot it see what he’s got to do and draw up a plan.”


Surveyor Sterrett asked, “Can we make the developer do that?”


Attorney Loy replied, “Yeah.”


Dr. Tribbett stated, “It’s really for their good as well.”


Chairman Schmierer stated, “We still want Surveyor Sterrett to have his fingers in it to know what’s going on. I would say that you need to go out there with them or something and work with them to get it done.”


Board Member Heimlich asked, “From a legal standpoint, is this going to be a reconstruction or?”


Attorney Loy stated, “We follow…the vacation procedure is identical in the hearing process to reconstruction and you’re not going to be vacating anything today.”


Chairman Schmierer stated, “They will have to reroute it.”


Attorney Loy stated, “Right, which is more along the nature of reconstruction…the endpoint is the same. I don’t have any problem continuing this hearing…are there any other landowners involved that aren’t here?”


Mr. Mandeville stated, “I’m John Mandeville and we represent Kraybill’s as a management company. We want whatever works, so…”


Attorney Loy asked, “Does Jordan have an easement from you guys?”


Mr. Mandeville replied, “Not that I know of.”


Attorney Loy asked, “Were you aware of the tile that he is talking about?”


Mr. Mandeville replied, “Absolutely no we did not.”


Dr. Tribbett asked, “Does someone else own that parcel just west?”


Mr. Mandeville stated, “There are like 13 acres there between the Ramsey Project and the next property to the west.”


Dr. Tribbett asked, “Is there a field between Moose Lodge and what Kraybill owns?”


Mr. Mandeville replied, “Yes.”


Mr. Roach stated, “Ours and his is Kraybill’s property to the north, but Jordan’s pipe goes straight through Kraybill.”


Mr. Mandeville stated, “I got involved about four years ago or so…I’m sure that Kraybill gave Jordan what he wanted because everything that they sold to him.”


Dr. Tribbett stated, “The question is, is there a legal easement?”


Mr. Mandeville replied, “Not that I know of. I don’t think there’s anything recorded.”


Dr. Tribbett stated, “That’s my concern, just don’t cut me off.”


Chairman Schmierer stated, “Well, we’ll just continue this hearing until we get this resolved.”


Mr. Mandeville stated, “If you put the tile in and you put it on the west boundary of Ramsey’s development…one of the questions I had was with what Kraybill has left if they go to sell that it might have to be incorporated into some type of drainage too, right?”


Chairman Schmierer, “If they sell it and develop it, it will have to have a drainage plan like everyone else.”


Mr. Mandeville stated, “And we’ve got this Jordan tile, that would probably have to be tied into the tile in between us, who knows…”


Dr. Tribbett stated, “The alternative is to make that a legal easement and put all of that drainage of that area south of the road.”


Chairman Schmierer stated, “Well, if we change the route and it’s a county tile it becomes a legal easement for the county. We have the right to work on it so many feet on each side.”


Dr. Tribbett stated, “My concern is, for the developers…the current tile comes in here and their rerouting it about here and Jordan’s tile is here so that leaves two potential easements just a couple hundred feet apart maybe.”


Mr. Waggner stated, “There is nothing anyone can do to that drain…legally it’s…”


Attorney Loy stated, “The county regulated drain you are talking about…”


“Even if it’s private though,” Mr. Waggner replied.


Attorney Loy stated, “Oh, private, that would be between the landowners.”


Dr. Tribbett stated, “I think you can if there’s not a legal easement. If you sell that property and it hasn’t been there 20 years…”


Attorney Loy stated, “Yeah, and you don’t even want to mess with the 20 years business. He’s right.”


Dr. Tribbett continued, “So, that’s the concern. I’m doing well right now, except if they cut me off I have no legal easement and Dave Jordan has been gracious about giving me in writing, an easement into his pond, but if he ever gets cut off then I’m in trouble again.”


Mr. Roach stated, “And that’s the same scenario here on the north end.”


Chairman Schmierer stated, “Ok, well we’ll continue this hearing until this gets resolved…”


Board Member Heimlich asked, “Do we continue it to a specific date?”


Attorney Loy stated, “You can…there’s going to have to be some locating where or not you want to set a date, you can.”


Board Member Heimlich stated, “No, I just wondered if it was legally necessary.”


Attorney Loy explained, “You’ll have to give new notices again, which you’ll likely have to do anyway.”


Chairman Schmierer stated, “We don’t want to tie Surveyor Sterrett down to something he can’t conform with and you’ve got this company here that’s got to have their engineering firm draw the plans after they go out and work on it.”


Mr. Waggner asked, “You’re talking about doing a relocation or reconstruction…does that mean that rather than doing a vacation of this tile we’re going to drain into a new legal drain and it’s still going to remain a county regulated drain?”


Attorney Loy explained, “When you vacate it means it’s no longer a county drain, from here to here it’s vacated and it’s no longer assessed, no longer maintained and in your case removed. Since this came to the Surveyor’s Office attention last week it’s going to have to be, it appears that it’s going to have to be relocated which is a reconstruction if the county is going to continue maintenance and assessment jurisdiction.”


Mr. Waggner asked, “I guess my question is the county wanting or wishing to continue that maintenance or vacate and dedicate a private easement back for these two tracts.”


Attorney Loy stated, “My guess is it’s the former of the…”

Chairman Schmierer explained, “I think the county has an obligation to see that the other landowners still have drainage and that is the reason why we’re relocating it instead of vacating it because they have to have drainage. We’re not going to cut someone off that’s already…”


Mr. Waggner asked, “No, I’m not saying we’re going to cut them off. I’m saying are we going to relocate it and when we relocate it will it be private easement?”


Chairman Schmierer stated, “No, it will still be county so it can be maintained.”


Surveyor Sterrett stated, “We’ll have to reduce the right-of-way on it.”


Chairman Schmierer stated, “That’s what I’m saying it’s going to take you a little while to get that worked out.”


Mr. Waggner asked, “Can we go ask for a conditional approval where we get approval of the vacation contingent on?”


Board Member Heimlich stated, “I don’t think it’s going to be a vacation. We can’t, we’re going to reroute.”


Chairman Schmierer stated, “We’re not going to vacate, we’re going to vacate the part that is going underneath your building, but it’s going to be rerouted. So, we’re not vacating the drain, all we’re vacating is parts going underneath your building but we don’t want to vacate it until we get the route drawn for the new drain so there is still drainage for everyone involved.”


Attorney Loy stated, “There are going to be assessments with respect to the relocation via what appears to be a reconstruction….we’re just doing this on the fly because the surveyor and I just got together when this all came up. The cost of relocation of the drain is always bore by the developer asking, which shouldn’t be a big deal. I think we’re talking about a reconstruction.”


Board Member Heimlich stated, “That was my question before…the reconstruction can be done as part of this hearing.”


Attorney Loy stated, “And we’re not dealing with any more landowners…I think all the landowners are here, right?”


Surveyor Sterrett replied, “Well, we sent 250 notices out because it’s with Buss Ditch.”


Chairman Schmierer stated, “All of that housing addition is in there, it all drains in there. Alright, we’ll continue this on and you’ll have to work with them to reroute it. Everyone will be notified when we come back together with it.


The next item to discuss is the Hoosier Lift Ponds in Wolcott.


Chairman Schmierer stated, “Are they full?”


Surveyor Sterrett replied, “No.”


Board Member Burton asked, “The ponds out there keep filling up and the Surveyor has to call the railroad. Is there something we can do to force them to do it on a regular basis versus going through the deal with letting them get full and the neighbors complain.”


Attorney Loy asked, “I’m familiar with the problem, the general problem, but what is the pressing problem right now?”


Chairman Schmierer stated, “Well, they are full again and they are running over into the field. There is never anyone there and every time we contact the railroad it takes them months to get them to come.”


Surveyor Sterrett stated, “They’ve been pretty good about it. I’ve contacted them twice this year and they’ve pumped it down and then it got full again. Now, I had to contact them again because the man couldn’t plant.”

Attorney Loy asked, “How were those established to begin with?”


Surveyor Sterrett stated, “It was done in 1983.”


Board Member Heimlich asked, “Originally established, didn’t they have automatic pumps on there?”


“But they don’t now,” Chairman Schmierer stated.


Surveyor Sterrett stated, “They have to bring in a pump.”


Attorney Loy stated, “And that was all well before the drainage ordinance.”


Surveyor Sterrett stated, “It was in 1983. The water is pumped into Jasper County for half a mile and it’s gravity for another mile or so into their ditch. It went through, I guess, both drainage boards. They are starting to balk now and not wanting to spend money on pumping it down. They can only pump it down about a foot, there are three ponds and one drains into the other.”


Attorney Loy stated, “So they are maintaining it even less than before.”


Chairman Schmierer stated, “Right, well it’s grown up a lot around there. The last time I was out there it was full of willows and stuff. They had automatic pumps there and they don’t work anymore.”


Board Member Burton stated, “Surveyor gets a call, he calls the railroad...we’d like to shorten up the procedure where they bear the responsibility of maintaining…”


Chairman Schmierer stated, “It’s flooding the fields around it so they can’t even plant.”


Attorney Loy stated, “Do you have a contact person for TPW?”


Surveyor Sterrett replied, “Yes, it’s the trackmaster.”


Attorney Loy asked, “Where is he? In the area? In the state?”


Surveyor Sterrett stated, “He’s from Illinois to Ohio. I just have a cell phone number.”


Attorney Loy stated, “Well, we’ll get into touch with them.”


Chairman Schmierer asked, “So, you’ve called them again to pump it?”


Surveyor Sterrett stated, “Yeah, they have it pumped down right now and the pump is still sitting there I was over there last week. This month they pumped it 24/7, but this trainmaster that I’m calling said that his boss says that they’re spending too much money out there.”


Board Member Heimlich asked, “Why don’t they put an automatic pump back in?”


Chairman Schmierer stated, “That’s been an ongoing problem ever since I’ve been here.”


Chairman Schmierer asked if there was anything further for the Drainage Board. Chairman Schmierer then adjourned the meeting.