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jam July 6, 2009 Tape #14

The White County Drainage Board convened at 10:30 A. M. in the Commissioners’ Room of the White County Building, Monticello, Indiana. Board members present were: President Ronald Schmierer, Vice President Steve Burton, and Drainage Board Member John Heimlich. Also present were the White County Drainage Board Attorney George Loy, Surveyor Dennis Sterrett, and Secretary Jamie Rozzi.

Others in attendance were Engineer Todd Frauhiger, Monticello Park Superintendent Mitch Billue, Bob Gross of R. W. Gross & Associates, Arnie Dahlenburg, James Snider, and Charlie Mellon.

The first item on the agenda was to approve the minutes from the June 15th, 2009 meeting. Board Member Heimlich so moved. Board Member Burton seconded the motion. Motion carried unanimously.

 

The next item on the agenda was consent to encroach on the Marion Sluyter Ditch. Surveyor Sterrett explained, “Mr. Snider is here and he wants to put a mobile home on this lot (Lot 18). We did a consent to encroach for another lot (Lot 17) a couple of years ago. The Sluyter is where the trees are. The garage is located there and he wants to put a mobile home about where the old one was.”

 

Chairman Schmierer asked, “Did the old one get flooded out?”

 

Surveyor Sterrett replied, “I think it burnt.”

 

Chairman Schmierer asked, “Does that area flood?”

 

Mr. Snider replied, “No, I spoke with Mr. Harrington this morning and he said that he had never seen the water go over top the bank. He has been there for a long time.”

 

Surveyor Sterrett explained, “There is an existing garage that is ten feet off the bank. He wants to put the mobile home here, which would be 55 feet from the top of bank and our right-of-way is 75 feet. There is farm field on the south side of the ditch.”

 

Board Member Heimlich asked, “How big is that ditch?”

 

Surveyor Sterrett replied, “Well, not very big probably about four or five foot deep.”

 

Board Member Heimlich asked, “Do you see any problem with it?”

 

Surveyor Sterrett replied, “No, I don’t see any problem. I don’t know if we can get between the garage or not, but that is existing.”

 

Board Member Heimlich added, “And you’ve got other trailers that are as close or closer…”

 

Board Member Heimlich made a motion to approve the Consent to Encroach on the Marion Sluyter Ditch for James Snider. Board Member Burton seconded the motion. Motion carried unanimously.

 

Attorney Loy asked, “Mr. Snider, do you have any questions? I have it prepared.”

 

Mr. Snider replied, “No, the only thing is that my wife’s not here, but I can get her signature and…”

 

Attorney Loy continued, “You understand that if that mobile home is removed or destroyed, or the garage, and you want to replace it you have to come back.”

 

The next item on the agenda was a vacation hearing for the George Bossung Open Drain. Mr. Dahlenburg explained, “We want to close the end of the ditch, about 1900 feet of the ditch, to the dead end and put in a big tile to make it easier to farm.”

Chairman Schmierer asked, “You’ve already petitioned it, haven’t you?”

 

Board Member Heimlich replied, “Yes, he has. This is the hearing.”

 

Chairman Schmierer stated, “Well, evidently we don’t have anyone here objecting to it.”

 

Mr. Dahlenburg replied, “We’re the only ones involved.”

 

Board Member Heimlich asked Surveyor Sterrett, “You didn’t receive any written objections did you?”

 

Surveyor Sterrett replied, “No. We sent out notices to landowners to the Bossung and Cox Branches. The Bossung runs up into the Honey Creek/Wolf Ditch. I think there is a tile coming from Frank James and several tiles at the end.”

 

Mr. Dahlenburg explained, “We’ve already talked to Frank (James), his tile coming across there is no good. We’re going to put in a new outlet and have assured him that he’ll be in better shape when we get done than he is now.”

 

Chairman Schmierer asked, “How big of a tile are you going to put in?”

 

Mr. Dahlenburg replied, “A 15 probably…”

 

Board Member Heimlich asked, “Are there tiles coming from those houses up there?”

 

“No,” Mr. Dahlenburg replied.

 

“It’s just surface water then,” Board Member Heimlich stated.

 

Chairman Schmierer asked, “Are you going to be able to tie your tiles into it, Arnie?”

 

Mr. Dahlenburg stated, “Probably not, none of them are any good so we’re just going to abandon them. If we find one that might be, we might, but probably not. The main problem with the ditch is that it doesn’t carry enough water to keep clean. See how it’s grown up? You have to have a flood before you get any drainage, so…and it crosses the field at an angle which makes it lovely farming.”

 

Charlie Mellon asked, “Where are you going to get the dirt to fill it?”

 

Mr. Dahlenburg replied, “That’s the question…”

 

Chairman Schmierer asked, “What is the favor of the board?”

 

 

THERE BEING NO FURTHER DISCUSSION OR EVIDENCE TO BE SUBMITTED IN THESE PROCEEDINGS, THE CHAIRMAN WOULD NOW CONSIDER A MOTION TO VACATE 1,400 FEET OF THE GEORGE BOSSING OPEN DRAIN UPON THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS:

 

  1. THAT NOTICE OF INTENTION TO VACATE SAID DRAIN WAS PROPERLY SERVED UPON ALL OWNERS OF AFFECTED LAND.
  2. THAT SAID DRAIN DOES NOT PERFORM THE FUNCTION FOR WHICH IT WAS DESIGNED AND CONSTRUCTED, OR IT HAS BECOME INADEQUATE TO PROPERLY DRAIN ALL AFFECTED LAND UNDER CURRENT CONDITIONS.
  3. THAT THE EXPENSE OF RECONSTRUCTION OUTWEIGHS THE BENEFITS OF RECONSTRUCTION.
  4. THAT VACATION OF SAID DRAIN WILL NOT BE DETRIMENTAL TO THE PUBLIC WELFARE.

 

BOARD MEMBER BURTON SO MOVED

BOARD MEMBER HEIMLICH SECONDED

 

UPON A MOTION DULY MADE AND SECONDED, AND AFTER HAVING CONSIDERED ALL OF THE EVIDENCE AND OBJECTIONS (IF ANY) CONCERNING THE PROPOSED VACATION, THOSE MEMBERS OF THE WHITE COUNTY DRAINAGE BOARD IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION OF THE VACATION OF 1,400 FEET OF THE GEORGE BOSSING OPEN DRAIN BASED UPON THE BASE FINDINGS COMPLETE.

 

WHITE COUNTY DRAINAGE BOARD BY A VOTE OF 3 IN FAVOR TO 0 OPPOSED NOW HEREBY VACATES 1,400 FEET OF THE GEORGE BOSSING OPEN DRAIN PURSUANT TO THE WHITE COUNTY SURVEYOR’S REPORT.

 

THE WHITE COUNTY DRAINAGE BOARD NOW ISSUES ITS WRITTEN FINDINGS AND ORDERS OF THE WHITE COUNTY TREASURER UNDER I.C. §36-9-27-37. IT IS DIRECTED TO TRANSFER ALL MONIES INTO SAID DRAIN MAINTENANCE FUND TO THE GENERAL DRAIN IMPROVEMENT FUND. MEETING ADJOURNED.

 

The next item on the agenda is drainage review for Jordan Park/City of Monticello. Surveyor Sterrett explained, “This site is north of the RCA building there at Fisher and First Streets. Engineer Frauhiger has reviewed it.”

 

Chairman Schmierer asked, “Is that going to be the skate park?”

 

“Yes,” Mr. Billue replied.

 

Engineer Frauhiger explained, “Basically the drainage pattern…all of the water is going to be directed to the north end of the property into a detention basin along this…the main portion of the detention is going to be in that dry bottom pond. Are you going to move the sirens or leave them there?”

 

Mr. Billue replied, “I talked to Doug Roberts about that he said it would probably be ok if we left them there. If they have to be moved, we’ll move them.”

 

Mr. Gross explained, “I think we’ve got capacity if we leave them there, just depending on how much dirt has to be there to keep the poles up.”

 

Engineer Frauhiger stated, “There is a civil defense tornado siren that will be in the pond. Surveyor Sterrett and I met out there with Doug (Roberts) and we concurred that they could probably be left there. Even if water came up around the base of the poles it wouldn’t hurt anything. I guess those are going to be left there. The one challenge is the outlet pipe will dump into the railroad side ditch which continues on to James Carter Ditch and the proposed height is approximately a foot and half lower than the existing 12 inch pipe that goes across the road right now. So, you’ll see the note on the plan to re-grade the ditch as required to get the required outlet elevations. Bob (Gross) is going to have to go out and get some additional shots to see exactly how far along that railroad they are going to have to grade. If they can’t get that foot and half along the railroad there’s going to be a new plan developed anyway. I walked it enough that I think they’ll get the foot and half, I just don’t know how far north they’ll have to go along the railroad to get it. Mr. Gross understands that they are going to have to be additional shots done and there is going to have to be some type of grading plan along the railroad to make sure we can get that elevation. The rest of the calculations are fine. I don’t have any problem with them at all. I was going to recommend approval on the plan contingent on making sure we get the grade. The reason I feel confident in doing that is if they can’t get the grade they’re going to have to redo some stuff anyway and resubmit it. So, that would be my recommendation right now for approval contingent on a final grading plan for the railroad side ditch.”

 

Chairman Schmierer asked, “Are you ok with that Surveyor Sterrett?”

 

“Yeah, like Todd said that outlet is a foot and half lower than the existing outlet.”

 

Chairman Schmierer asked, “Who owns the ditch along side the railroad?”

 

Engineer Frauhiger replied, “The railroad is an old abandoned railroad and I assume…does the railroad still have title to that?”

 

Mr. Gross stated, “Should still have title.”

 

Surveyor Sterrett stated, “That is CSX that comes from Monon.”

 

Chairman Schmierer stated, “I know where it comes from, but what I was concerned with was whether you’ll be able to go on there and do a ditch down along there.”

 

Engineer Frauhiger stated, “I would think that the railroad would like them to re-grade the ditch and clean it out, but I don’t know if on an abandoned railroad if you have to have a railroad permit or not. It’s overgrown right now, I can’t believe they’d have a problem with them taking the trees out and re-grading it. I know the tracks are taken out to Fisher.”

 

Board Member Burton asked, “There is a lot of assumption in there that the railroad is going to be cooperative. What if they aren’t cooperative?”

 

Engineer Frauhiger replied, “If they aren’t cooperative then the entire plan will have to change anyway. Quite honestly, if the railroad isn’t cooperative in re-grading that ditch I think they only have two choices, re-grading the site and bringing fill in and bringing everything up to bring the outlet pipe up or possibly going along Fisher Street and trying to get into the new Main Street system that was done with the Main Street project several years ago. Those are the only options I would see.”

 

Chairman Schmierer asked, “Do you think we are wise passing this plan if we aren’t sure whether they’re going to go with that drainage? If we pass the plan then they can go ahead and start on the park and then we’re going to have a problem if they don’t have the drainage.”

 

Engineer Frauhiger stated, “No, that’s not correct. I would say that it’s passed contingent on getting the outlet plan.”

 

“First,” Board Member Burton stated.

 

Engineer Frauhiger continued, “They’ll have to come back and say here’s the grade plan, here’s the permission from the railroad to do it, and then they would start building.”

 

Board Member Burton asked, “We are adopting that they fix that before they start, correct?

 

Engineer Frauhiger stated, “Right, if they can’t get an outlet to the railroad they can’t do any of this anyway. I would say they would be totally at risk if they were to build and they couldn’t get an outlet.”

 

Chairman Schmierer asked, “So, nobody has contracted the railroad?”

 

Mr. Billue explained, “I’ve had contact with the railroad, but not concerning the side ditch or drainage issue. I guess I could call and see what they have to say about it.”

 

Attorney Loy explained, “If that was an easement Jordan may have acquired title to that through that class action lawsuit.”

 

Chairman Schmierer asked, “That goes back through there behind Kroger, doesn’t it?”

 

Engineer Frauhiger stated, “Back of Kroger, back of Jordan’s subdivision and eventually works it way to the James Carter Ditch.”

 

Surveyor Sterrett explained, “Turquoise and Treasures is on the other side of the railroad.”

 

Chairman Schmierer stated, “You’d probably have to go across Turquoise and Treasures’ property to get through there.”

 

Mr. Gross stated, “It should be in the railroad right of way. We talked to Turquoise and Treasures too and they’re happy if we can open that ditch up. They want to get that water off.”

 

Surveyor Sterrett stated, “I think there’s some water ponding on them….right across from the building there.”

 

Engineer Frauhiger stated, ‘The advantage that I forgot to mention was the existing 12 inch pipe is right here, most of the tributary drainage area is being taken off and not routed through the system. It’s a 12 inch pipe, but there’s a 5 inch orifice plate on it so water from the site is going to be restricted through a 5 inch orifice.”

 

Chairman Schmierer asked, “The drain that we put for Jordan several years ago that Jordan paid for, doesn’t that come up to that road some place?”

 

Engineer Frauhiger replied, “I don’t think it comes up that far.”

 

Surveyor Sterrett explained, “It was supposed to, but he didn’t put that in. There was supposed to put a 30 inch in…there is a detention pond down there and I believe there was supposed to be a 30 inch.”

 

Chairman Schmierer stated, “They put a detention pond in for the apartments.”

 

Surveyor Sterrett stated, “Yes, and it goes over into another detention pond. If you’ll remember they had trouble with the site west of here.”

 

Attorney Loy asked, “So, the city may need some easements?”

 

Mr. Gross replied, “I don’t think so, not if you stay in the railroad right of way.”

 

Engineer Frauhiger stated, “It will be interesting to see what the railroad says.”

 

Surveyor Sterrett stated, “One thing is that the tracks are still in.”

 

Engineer Frauhiger stated, “The tracks are in going north, but from Fisher (Street) south they are all gone.”

 

Chairman Schmierer stated, “They use the tracks occasionally for the fertilizer place out there.”

Board Member Heimlich made the motion to approve the drainage review for Jordan Park/City of Monticello contingent upon on getting an outlet plan. Board Member Burton seconded the motion. Motion carried unanimously.

 

Mr. Gross asked, “So is it my understanding that we would just need to get our approval then from the Surveyor and Engineer Frauhiger?”

 

Board Member Burton replied, “Yes, if this all works out and we’ve approved it… If the railroad easement isn’t…”

 

“You’ll have to come back and figure out where you’re going to go with it,” Chairman Schmierer stated.

 

Chairman Schmierer asked, “How hard would it be to take it over to Main Street?”

 

Engineer Frauhiger replied, “It would be in the pavement quite a bit, it would be a longer distance, and I don’t know what the elevation is on the upstream end of the system, so…”

 

The next item on the agenda is to discuss the John Unroe Drain in Wolcott. Surveyor Sterrett explained, “There was a small hole in the street and after they dug down to find out what it was…they found it was a wide gap in the tile.

 

Engineer Frauhiger stated, “The tile actually looks in pretty good shape.”

 

Chairman Schmierer asked, “Is this the new tile?”

Surveyor Sterrett replied, “No.”

 

Engineer Frauhiger explained, “This is the tile that we tv’d that we said was in good shape ten years ago and then we saw that suck hole and we thought maybe it had collapsed.”

 

Surveyor Sterrett stated, “He said there was a rock right there on the edge of it. I don’t know if that had anything to do with letting the silt in or not. Actually, the sides of the trench were pretty stable. They probably didn’t need the box. We had Dwenger repair it. They backfilled a little bit of it with stone up about a foot or two, then granular fill and then they put a foot or two of stone for the road.”

 

Engineer Frauhiger explained, “Surveyor Sterrett and I met with the design consultant for the Department of Transportation and the project manager for INDOT via conference call. We talked about what we talked about at the last drainage board meeting which was the concept of putting this piece of reconstruction in their plans and the bottom line is that they have no problem with it. We have one challenge that we have to figure out how to work through. This plan that we have is on a different datum then their plan is and I haven’t confirmed it, but our micro-station won’t open it. We are trying to get that fixed so we can open it. He said there was about a ten foot elevation difference between the datum that was used to develop this and what was used to develop the road plans. I got the plans last Wednesday and couldn’t open them. They were micro-station plans, but our micro-station wouldn’t open it. Jamie said once we get those plans open, basically, what we’re looking at doing is….INDOT would pay as part of this project for (2 structures), taking the pipe under US 24 and the watershed would pay for this new section of pipe which we know is collapsed. We have video from 10 years ago that shows numerous places where that tile is collapsed. We also have video that shows from this point upstream that the tile is in good shape, but this portion down to US 24 right in front of the elevator is in horrible shape. As a matter of fact, we did have a break in that tile and we’ve already had one repair in that section of tile…two repairs. So, what we looked at is putting this section of pipe and this section of pipe into the INDOT plans and having the INDOT contractor construct it at the same time he does the rest, and as I said INDOT doesn’t have any problems with that. I said that was the preference of the board at the last meeting. So, where we are right now is that we’ve got to figure out the datum difference between the two sets of plans and then find out exactly what they need from this plan sheet to go into their plans. What they’ll do is on their bid documents, they’ll separate out this section of pipe and this structure and that section of pipe and that structure so we’ll know exactly what portion the watershed has. We’ll have a cost estimate before that, but…their engineer felt that it would be less expensive to do it this way because we’re going to pay for….the contractor is going to take all of the mobilization out of the project and it would be just kind of a sidebar. It should be the most cost effective way to do it.”

 

Surveyor Sterrett stated, “They have it kind of on a fast track, I guess.”

 

Engineer Frauhiger stated, “We’ve basically got July to get everything worked out.”

 

Surveyor Sterrett asked, “How are we going to pay for it?”

 

Engineer Frauhiger stated, “We talked about whether we wanted Maintenance or Reconstruction, but….we’re guessing….I think you said there was about $40,000 in the fund.”

 

Board Member Heimlich asked, “And how much do you think it’s going to cost?”

 

Engineer Frauhiger replied, “Around $60,000…it might be a little cheaper than that.”

 

Board Member Heimlich asked, ‘And it brings in how much per year?”

 

Surveyor Sterrett replied, “It brings in $10,000 per year.”

 

Chairman Schmierer stated, “We haven’t worked on it that much since…”

 

Surveyor Sterrett replied, “We worked on it…in 2006 and twice this year. East of town Wrede & Sons did a repair.”

 

Board Member Heimlich asked, “If there is $40,000.00 in there right now, have we got the money in there from the last collection?”

 

Surveyor Sterrett replied, “No, we didn’t collect in 2008 because it was paid up. So, we did collect in 2009. The last settlement that we got was in June 2008 which was for 2007.’

 

Board Member Heimlich asked, “What is the maintenance rate now?”

 

Surveyor Sterrett replied, “$3.00 an acre and $10.00 minimum.”

 

Attorney Loy asked, “Is the town itself paying anything or it is just the landowners?”

 

Surveyor Sterrett replied, “When we did Reconstruction we broke it out of the town and put it to the landowners, but whether they’re still paying that on Maintenance, I’m not sure.”

 

Engineer Frauhiger stated, “There is roughly 700 feet and I was using $100 per foot which they thought was high….they thought $70-$75 per foot. We checked the uniform price controls with INDOT and we were way high.”

 

Chairman Schmierer stated, “You said $140,000 at our last meeting.”

 

Engineer Frauhiger replied, “Yeah, and that is what our estimate was and it was way high. At the meeting we had with the INDOT engineer he checked some additional pricing.”

 

Surveyor Sterrett stated, “It looks like we’re going to have to put in two manholes.”

 

Engineer Frauhiger stated, “Yeah, two maybe three manholes.”

 

Chairman Schmierer stated, “Once we get this fixed we shouldn’t have to work on it.”

 

Surveyor Sterrett replied, “Well, it runs two miles, I mean, it runs east 2 miles and 2 miles west…so it’s about 5 miles. We haven’t worked on it on the west side of town. It’s broke down twice on the east side where it’s a 30 inch in Furrer’s field.”

 

Board Member Burton asked, “Can we do it on maintenance and propose a raise for two years?”

 

Board Member Heimlich stated, “The thing is that you have to have a hearing to do that. We could raise it 25% which would be 25 cents and go to $3.75 without a hearing.”

 

Attorney Loy asked, “It’s not been raised like that before?”

 

Surveyor Sterrett replied, “Not to my knowledge.”

 

Chairman Schmierer stated, “Well, why don’t we sit tight on it for a little bit until we get a firm figure to see what we want to do with it. I think that’s what we need to do.”

 

Engineer Frauhiger stated, “The other thing we might as well talk about is where they are going to outlet that storm water. It’s not the primo solution, but they have no other place to go. The Unroe portion of the ditch is an open ditch and their entire system, 2,000 or 3,000 feet of pipe…basically it’s all going to be above ground in the ditch. They aren’t going to go into the 24 inch tile at all.”

 

Chairman Schmierer asked, “The side ditch by the elevator and all down through there?”

 

Engineer Frauhiger replied, “Yes, we did have substantial discussion with them. It has flooded once before. This past January it flooded, but there’s a blockage along the railroad track and they think the water got redirected. It flooded on that side of the railroad tracks and upstream where it usually floods around the park was dry. They have since taken care of that. I want to say it’s a 24 and 30 inch pipe that they are going to discharge into that ditch.”

 

Surveyor Sterrett stated, “Plus, they are bringing the water from the north up...I forget how far off of US 24.”

 

Engineer Frauhiger stated, “Off of US 24. They are putting in new curbs, storm sewers, and inlets.”

 

Chairman Schmierer stated, “That ditch isn’t all that deep, it’s probably only about 3 feet deep.”

 

Engineer Frauhiger replied, “And that is part of the problem.”

 

Surveyor Sterrett explained, “The water that is going through the tile into the Unroe tile will now be coming into their new tile into the open ditch.”

 

Engineer Frauhiger stated, “Yeah, the drainage system for US 24 is in horrible shape. They are standard inlets, no curbs, and no storm sewer so we had a long discussion with channeling the water. They are giving it a way to get there, they are putting curbs in, and that water that probably used to make it to the 24 inch tile had a longer path and now it’s going to the ditch. They basically threw up their hands and I agree with them. There just isn’t any place to take the water, zero. That tile and that ditch are the only things that drain town.”

 

Chairman Schmierer stated, “I’m surprised some of those in town didn’t say anything.”

 

Engineer Frauhiger stated, “They discussed it at length at the town meeting I was at and that’s when the gentleman that owns the lumber store on the corner and has a house nearby said that it flooded in January, but it had never flooded in the 30 years he’d never seen that ditch come out of its banks. He said he had seen it full, but never seen it come out of its banks. That was passed on to INDOT; that a gentleman stated that it had only flooded once and it was because of a redirect of water.”

 

Chairman Schmierer asked, “It isn’t three feet deep is it?”

 

Engineer Frauhiger replied, “Three to five feet, something like that. About five feet. The next time we’ll bring the design plans and we can see exactly where they will be coming into that.”

 

Surveyor Sterrett reported on the Meadow Lake Wind Farm Operations & Maintenance Facility. Surveyor Sterrett reported that he received a letter from landowner John Rockaway which stated that he was giving his consent to discharge across their property. These are the people that own to the south of the site…and are selling to Horizon.

 

Chairman Schmierer asked if there was anything further for the Drainage Board. Chairman Schmierer then adjourned the meeting.