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August 17, 2009

The White County Drainage Board convened at 10:40 A. M. in the Commissioners’ Room of the White County Building, Monticello, Indiana. Board members present were: President Ronald Schmierer, Vice President Steve Burton, and Drainage Board Member John Heimlich. Also present were Drainage Board Attorney George W. Loy, Surveyor Dennis Sterrett, Drainage Assistant Mary Sterrett and Secretary Jamie Rozzi.

Also in attendance were Engineer Todd Frauhiger, Charlie Mellon, Dave Jordan, Rich Roach, Bert Gibson representing Ramsey Development, Alvin Cargill representing Horizon Wind Energy and Sharon Watson with the White County Soil & Water Conservation District.

The first item on the agenda was to approve the minutes from the August 3, 2009 meeting. Board Member Heimlich so moved. Board Member Burton seconded the motion. Motion carried unanimously.

The next item on the agenda was Ramsey Development (Monticello Health Campus) regarding the relocation of the Simeon Davisson Tile.

Surveyor Sterrett explained, “Jordan’s pond is located here. The branch tile of the Davisson, Branch #2, comes up and there is a catch basin on the south side and I think they installed an air well when they explored it. This is the high end of Branch #2 on the property line, this is the Tribbett farm. The existing outlet of Jordan’s pond goes straight north to Buss Ditch. Ramsey plans to intercept that tile right here and run it back east and north along the west line of their new property into Buss Ditch. We proposed to make this a regulated drain coming out of Jordan’s pond with a 30 foot easement and also this new tile going east and back north with a 30 foot easement.”

Chairman Schmierer stated, “If we hook up the pond outlet tile, they are going to hook up the Simeon Davisson tile. They are going to go ahead and hook it up…that tile that is going across Roach’s farm now, that will just be cut off there or what?”

Surveyor Sterrett stated, “Well, this part still needs to have an easement to get to the new part.”

Chairman Schmierer asked, “Across Jordan’s or across Roach’s?”

Surveyor Sterrett replied, “Across Jordan there because I think that Tribbet field is hooked to that and now it goes into the pond. It’s got 2 foot of free board and then the pond outlets into this tile here and goes clear to the ditch.”

Chairman Schmierer stated, “So you’re not hooking up the tile from Tribbett’s. You’re not hooking up the Davisson from down there, you’re just going to let it go into the pond and still outlet.”

Surveyor Sterrett replied, “Right, but he has legal access now if we make that a regulated drain.”

Chairman Schmierer asked, “Are you aware of what we’re trying to do, Mr. Jordan?”

Mr. Jordan replied, “I’m aware of what’s there and I’m just now starting to be aware of what you want to do. The thing that…this one tile comes out too high where we put the pond in, right in through here, so it drains into ours and then I believe when we come down through here that this was capped off some place. It doesn’t even go that way anymore, all this water comes down through here and goes out that way. If we would have done that we would have had to reroute that all the way around or elevate the pipe going across there to keep it flowing.”

Chairman Schmierer asked, “This ought to give you good drainage though, if we hook that in, don’t you think?”

Mr. Jordan replied, “We’ve got good drainage now.”

Chairman Schmierer stated, “But it will get your pond down.”

Mr. Jordan stated, “No, the pond is designed…it won’t go down any more than it is. It’s under dug a little bit to stop silt from going through it. Actually, before we did this the area over here was a swamp and I think with what we did I think we dried all that up. We could never find where those drains went any place. We tried and could never find….they put dye in it and looked down at the ditch and couldn’t figure it out. The solution was that we’d just put in our own private tile and solve that. Then, I think we did an oversizing of that thinking that future expansion…they could actually hook into that drain to and get the water out of there. I think we might have even talked about this when we did that.”

Board Member Burton stated, “Well, as we get up there onto Kraybill’s and where the home is going to be…there is an issue of the building being on top of the tile.”

Mr. Jordan stated, “So, what are you saying…that Kraybill wants to do something different now? When I talked to them they didn’t have a problem, this was just a month or so ago.”

Board Member Burton explained, “Do you see the dotted line….where the county tile comes up there and to the Y. What we’re suggesting is come over and regulate that north and south on the left side of the Y….so that becomes the new regulated and tying that in as a county regulated tile.”

Mr. Jordan asked, “Who is paying for it?”

Chairman Schmierer replied, “Ramsey Development is paying for it.”

Mr. Jordan asked, “But then after it’s in it will be a county drain?”

Chairman Schmierer replied, “Right.”

Mr. Jordan asked, “And then we’ll be taxed on it?”

Surveyor Sterrett replied, “Well, you’re already taxed on it. You are already assessed on the Buss Ditch and this is a branch of the Buss Ditch.”

Mr. Jordan asked, “So you are going to maintain that private tile that I have going all the way down there?”

Surveyor Sterrett asked, “Yeah…from Gordon Road to the pond.”

Mr. Jordan replied, “No, from my property…”

Board Member Burton stated, “The area that you got…north would not be regulated because they are putting in new regulated there.”

Mr. Jordan stated, “So you’re just going to abandon all this…take all this out.”

Engineer Frauhiger stated, “I think we’re just….one of the concerns is if that property ever develops is that it has tile not on an easement right down the middle of it. It’s not needed anymore. I don’t know if there’s any private tile tied in it or not.”

Mr. Jordan stated, “The question I got is….the elevation at this point, of the new one that they are going to put in is going to be lower than what this is right now. My question is…this tile coming across here, there’s not a lot of slant; I know that. So, if you’re going to do this it’s just as easy to put it in the ground another foot or two foot. This could solve some problems in the future.”

Mr. Roach asked, “What kind of grade are we talking about? Are you right at the water…are you starting as low as you can or? I don’t know what we’re doing here?”

Surveyor Sterrett replied, “0.25 percent, it’s all 0.35 percent.”

Mr. Roach asked, “So are you coming up so you’re just on grade with Dave’s tile or are you coming in below that?”

Surveyor Sterrett explained, “They went out and dug up the existing tiles and went from that grade of existing tile and went to the ditch.”

Mr. Jordan stated, “We came across pretty deep…the numbers for some reason didn’t seem to be working out so we went up the bare minimum to make that work.”

Engineer Frauhiger stated, “So, if anything .25 is probably steep than you are.”

Mr. Jordan stated, “But still, here’s what I’m thinking because like it or not I’m going to get water back there’s a lot of land that flows to that drain. If he wants to develop that…and this is something I told him…what I would try to do is have that along Gordon Road there, have that deeper so we could actually put a bigger pipe in that ditch and take that out if we needed to and let more people flow into that for future expansion.”

Engineer Frauhiger stated, “That pipe is sized for future development and flow from your pond. I think its 30 inch by the time it gets to the ditch.”

Mr. Jordan stated, “But if it’s not deep enough then you’re going to have a problem.”

Mr. Roach asked, “What’s the grade of the old county tile?”

Surveyor Sterrett stated, “Probably 0.10….”

Mr. Roach stated, “And the new 0.25 and 30 inch so you’re at better grade than…am I thinking right?”

Mr. Jordan stated, “So what you need from me is an easement across that pond…you don’t need that.”

Board Member Burton stated, “We already had that authority through there…see, it’s still county.”

Mr. Jordan asked, “What do you need me for then?”

Board Member Burton stated, “We’re trying to get everyone on board. What we’re trying to do is make it regulated so everyone has a legal access to that drain and, in a way, we feel we’re upgrading and putting a bigger tile in so we hope we’re benefiting you to this. But, we want you on board as we regulated all of this through there.”

Mr. Jordan stated, “My concern is this, last time I did…said I’ll do whatever you want on the Jordan Ditch…ok, I got it shoved right up my rear end. I had to pay all the engineering fees, I had to put it in and this is the thing we got in there and we didn’t get a whole lot out of it and this is what I don’t want to have here. I think the engineering was $23,000-$24,000.”

Chairman Schmierer stated, “There’s no expense on this to you at all. I know what you’re talking about and I don’t blame you a bit.”

Mr. Jordan stated, “And then one of those things to rub it in; you sent me a letter for $1,400 to get Jimmy out there to put in a concrete slab when a simple phone call could have done it. These are the kind of things I’m standing here saying, wait a minute…I want to know where I stand.”

Chairman Schmierer stated, “This is no cost to you.”

Board Member Burton stated, “And that’s why we wanted you to come in.”

Mr. Jordan stated, “My only concern if you are going to do this and what you’re going to do is….I’d get that deeper, you also have expansion if you go further south. As they say for industrial its ‘shovel ready’ right now because there’s an outlet.”

Chairman Schmierer asked, “That tile that we’re vacating goes across you, right Mr. Roach?”

Mr. Roach replied, “Basically what would be the east side of that easement is my east line. It goes right on Kenny Boston. So, what they are asking me is that they want to put the easement on that property. My question is…I don’t see anything wrong with making that what you guys are asking to do, the questions I start having is what Dave’s bringing up….is if we can make this as low as we possibly can. I don’t want to dump the cost on people paying… the grade is going to help us, but the question is if the 30 inch tile is going in at the top or the bottom of that…do you understand what I’m asking?”

Mr. Gibson representing Ramsey Development replied, “Those inverts are to the bottom of the pipe. They are matched.”

Mr. Roach asked, “My next question would be….say Tribbett or someone wants to do something south of Dave’s (Jordan) how do you get to that? Won’t we have to go back to Dave? Will Tribbett always have the right to dump water into here…that doesn’t seem right because he could dump more water? The question I’m asking is how will Tribbett hook on?”

Board Member Burton replied, “The dotted line is where the existing county tile is…whether it’s functioning or not it’s there and there is right-of-way. So, the pond is technically in the right-of-way and you’ve worked it out with Tribbett where it’s dumping in there and going out, correct? Ok, this is still going to be a regulated area there so if Tribbett develops that he still has through county access, ability to dump into that outlet and the water can…”

Chairman Schmierer stated, “Whether he has to re-build the tile to suit his own self or what he has to do to get into it he can get into the county tile.”

Board Member Burton stated, “He has no right to come across your property with a private tile, that’s between you and him, but as long as it’s county right way…”

Mr. Roach stated, “In other words, he can dump into here as much as he wants and you’re saying basically, all of Dave’s…from the center line this is all county right of way.”

Surveyor Sterrett stated, “He can only come out of this tile here.”

Engineer Frauhiger stated, “And if Tribbett develops he going to have to contain water on his property so it will come in at less volume.”

Mr. Roach stated, “So it doesn’t come in any faster…”

Board Member Burton stated, “See that is what this gentleman is doing. He can’t dump anymore into that 30 inch tile than would normally go in. So, even though it’s bigger it’s still restricted. ”

Mr. Roach asked, “The other question I had was whether is the easement on the east side of this property…if they wanted to purchase that lot that was for sale if they wanted to put drive, blacktop with the understanding that if something needs to be done and it gets tore up…how does that work? Or does the lot just all of a sudden now become 30 feet less; do you follow what I’m asking?”

Board Member Heimlich stated, “There’s an easement with any ditch or tile…if you get on to that easement and build something you have to get a Consent to Encroach.”

Chairman Schmierer stated, “Whether it’s a driveway…you can’t put a building on it, but you can put a driveway but your encroachment is going to tell you if we have to work on that tile and we have to work on that tile it’s their…”

Surveyor Sterrett stated, “Any expense incurred would be yours, not yours but…”

Board Member Burton stated, “The good thing for you in that area is if you want to develop it there are going to be drainage restrictions, but you’re going to have something to tie into. Whereas, if we’re all realistic…”

Mr. Roach stated, “Well, that’s the reason Dave and I worked together when we put that up through there before.”

Mr. Jordan stated, “I think our concern is this is an area I think in the next twenty years there is going to be more stuff out there. So, we may have to come through…I don’t know if we put a bigger tile through here or whatever…we can still handle this rather than going out and coming out to the road to hook this stuff up. Now is the time to do it and plan on it…that’s what I was thinking.”

Mr. Roach stated, “But the way I understand….Tribbett is never going to be allowed to put water on there any faster than what is presently. Whatever development he’s going to do, he’s going to have to do what you did…he can’t dump into you any faster than he already is. So, whoever is doing the development is going to have to retain the water.”

Chairman Schmierer asked Mr. Gibson representing Ramsey Development, “Are you satisfied with what we’re doing, sir?”

Mr. Gibson replied, “I’m satisfied as long as it stays with the way we agreed with the surveyor and Engineer Frauhiger.”

Board Member Burton stated, “Anything that happens….I know you’re concerned, we develop it, we putting more water in it, but he’s got to have retention to hold that water and can’t release it in there any greater than what…”

Engineer Frauhiger stated, “Actually, it’s less.”

Mr. Jordan stated, “Well, the truth of the matter is that I don’t think they are dumping it in there the way that it is planned because I think this area is a swamp and it wouldn’t take away what you…and then when we took away a lot of this…it’s moved it on.”

Mr. Roach stated, “What happened there is that tile that runs through the Boston property, through the muck, it’s only got….there are some places you could take a spade and hit the top of the tile. So we had that open a few years ago.”

Chairman Schmierer asked, “Do we need a motion to approve the Ramsey Develop relocation of Simeon Davisson tile?”

Attorney Loy replied, “Yes.”

Surveyor Sterrett stated, “We’re still trying to vacate this tile and relocate…”

Attorney Loy stated, “Well, we’re doing what I call the informal reconstruction procedure, where relocation of the tile is all on one landowner.”

Surveyor Sterrett stated, “I might add that I got a call from John Mandeville, farm manager for Kraybill Farms, and he picked up this plan and he didn’t have a problem with it.”

Attorney Loy stated, “So we are going to have a new route for the Simeon Davisson Tile Drain in effect vacating what is shaded….with a reduced right of way.”

Board Member Heimlich made a motion to approve Ramsey Development’s relocation a portion of the Simeon Davisson Tile Drain. Board Member Burton seconded the motion. Motion carried unanimously.

Chairman Schmierer stated, “Now, how do we go about….do we have to have another hearing to vacate the other area?”

Attorney Loy replied, “No, it’s a reconstruction…”

Chairman Schmierer added, “Relocation…”

Attorney Loy continued, “It’s all going to be at the expense of the developer.”

Engineer Frauhiger stated, “We still need to approve the Monticello Health Campus. We tabled it last time.”

Board Member Heimlich made a motion to approve the drainage plan for Ramsey Development (Monticello Health Campus). Board Member Burton seconded the motion. Motion carried unanimously.

The next item on the agenda is Meadow Lake Wind Farm Temporary Laydown Yard II.

Chairman Schmierer asked, “Where is this laydown yard going to be at?”

Surveyor Sterrett explained, “This is I-65 and US 231 that goes to Wolcott. This is an addition to the existing laydown yard.”

Mr. Cargill explained, “It butts up to the fence and goes north….same place.”

Surveyor Sterrett stated, “I just wanted to show that the H. Denhart regulated tile goes through here.”

Chairman Schmierer asked, “Are we going to affect that?”

Engineer Frauhiger stated, “Not really, but kind of. The new pond is up here with a new outlet pipe over land. It’s going to drain in an existing over land swale through two pipes which are currently under US 231 and the swale continues off into that direction. There is an air well in the swale that drops into the regulated tile downstream. There is nothing as far as an air well, in this area, that the surface water will get into.”

Chairman Schmierer asked, “Are they going to have enough surface water to affect it?”

Engineer Frauhiger stated, “No, again with the detention they are actually dumping less water into the swale than had gone before. The only issue is they are putting a pipe in where they used to be a…but it’s a small volume of water. Did we get a letter from the landowner?”

Surveyor Sterrett stated, “No, we never did. We got a letter from Farnsworth when they sent the plans that they would be forwarding a letter from the adjacent landowner.”

Mr. Cargill stated, “I’ll get the letter…its Craig Blume and it’s not an issue. If I had known that they hadn’t presented the letter I would have brought one.”

Engineer Frauhiger stated, “I reviewed all the calculations and its all fine.”

Board Member Burton made a motion to approve the drainage review for Meadow Lake Wind Farm Laydown Yard II. Board Member Heimlich seconded the motion. Motion carried unanimously.

Surveyor Sterrett asked, “Would that be contingent on the letter we get?”

Chairman Schmierer stated, “Yeah.”

Surveyor Sterrett stated, “So before any building permits can be issued I need that letter first.”

Mr. Cargill stated, “I’ll bring that in when we come in and file for the permit.”

Board Member Burton stated, “I would feel comfortable at this point because it’s…”

Mr. Cargill asked, “Have they submitted plans for the substation?”

Surveyor Sterrett replied, “No.”

The next item on the agenda was Jordan Park/City of Monticello side ditch profile.

Surveyor Sterrett explained, “If you remember we approved the plan contingent on getting the profile.”

Chairman Schmierer stated, “Did they get access to the railroad, or do you know?”

Surveyor Sterrett replied, “They got oral permission from the railroad. The railroad wouldn’t give them written permission is what I was told.”

Chairman Schmierer stated, “We approved their plan they just had to bring that to us.”

Engineer Frauhiger stated, “Right, we just wanted to make sure…”

Surveyor Sterrett reported that he is to meet with DNR on September 2nd regarding the Emmet Rayman Ditch. Board Member Burton stated that he would join the surveyor to meet with them.

Surveyor Sterrett stated that the Owen Denton Joint Board was scheduled to meet on September 1st.

Surveyor Sterrett stated, “I have some questions regarding the Hoagland Board. I think you have to appoint a member.”

Board Member Heimlich stated, “Yeah. Well, they had a couple names.”

Surveyor Sterrett stated, “The only one I have heard is Gary Waibel, but he is the son-in-law of Jerry Gutwein. Jerry does a lot of work on that ditch, so…is that a conflict of interest?”

Chairman Schmierer stated, “I would say so.”

Board Member Burton stated, “He could abstain.”

Attorney Loy asked, “Did he give you another name?”

Surveyor Sterrett replied, “No, he didn’t.”

Board Member Heimlich stated, “John Million did the other day. He said another one was Dirk Fleck. I thought that Waibel was probably better because he was on down toward Benton County. Russ Sickler is the other one on there and he’s from the Reynolds area.”

Attorney Loy asked, “Is it a three or five member board?”

Surveyor Sterrett replied, “Three.”

Board Member Heimlich stated, “I don’t care, but it would probably be good to have someone down in the southwest part of it. Well, the one that just went off was Mathews. Actually, are we supposed to be appointing those people to terms, like three year terms or four year terms? It sounds like we probably should be. It would be the same with the Wolf.”

Attorney Loy stated, “And you do that on a regular basis. I’ll check the statute.”

Surveyor Sterrett stated, “We discussed that one meeting. I think it was once each year.”

Board Member Heimlich stated, “It came up when FEMA was here.”

Attorney Loy stated, “The same board has been in existence and therefore has carried over from year to year. The attorney for that board is Mr. Million, was that ok with John?”

Surveyor Sterrett stated, “I see what you mean…they should be asking their attorney.”

Attorney Loy stated, “Yes.”

Board Member Heimlich stated, “If they are ok with it I think it would be good to have representation down in that area. The third one is Parks, and his ground is up this way, not down…it’s between Wolcott and Reynolds.”

Chairman Schmierer asked if there was anything further for the White County Drainage Board. Chairman Schmierer then adjourned the meeting.