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The White County Area Plan Commission met Monday, February 9, 2004, at 7:30 p.m. in the Commissioners’ Meeting Room, Second Floor, County Building, Monticello, Indiana.

Members attending were: Jay Clawson, David Rosenbarger, Charles Anderson, David Scott, Stephen Fisher, Scott Kyburz, Gregory Bossaer, Dennis Sterrett. Also attending were Attorney Altman and Director Weaver.

Visitors Attending were: Bob Guy, Dane Davis, Beth Shepherd, Jack Martin, Richard Turbin, Don Apple, Katie Apple, Lori O’Connor, Kay Knop, Don Knop, Roxanne Morrison, Ben Stefaniak, Gene Tatman, Dale Lehe, and Tom Spackman

The meeting was called to order by President Charles Anderson and roll call was taken. Greg Bossaer made a motion to dispense with reading and approve the minutes of the December 8, 2003 meeting and carried unanimously.


#836 Dane R. & Linda C. Davis; The property is located on 4.00 acres, South of Monticello at 3731 S. Freeman Road. Tabled from the November 10, 2003 meeting.

Violation: None

Request: They are requesting to rezone from R-2 to A-1.

President Charles Anderson asked, is there anyone here representing this request?


Dane Davis stated, I’m Dane Davis. I am the property owner. I had asked that it be rezoned from R-2 to A-1. Previously I was asked to consider submitting a letter that would have been approved by council and considered for a vote. In meeting with my council he advised that I should not have to enter into a restrictive measure when there is already regulations on the books that governor the land use for agriculture. Ms. Weaver had shown me that and I shared that with council. The restriction consist of no more than 2 horses per 3 acres. At the time that I requested the zoning in order that those requirements could be complied with. After consulting with my council however, he advised me that I should not have to enter into any kind of letter to further restrict me from that type of a regulation. I’m requesting that this be rezoned from R-2 to A-1.


President Charles Anderson asked, do any of the Commissioners have any questions? Does anyone in the audience have any questions?


Don Knop stated, I’m Don Knop, I represent the homeowners associations. This has been tabled so many times since November that a lot of the neighbors have either went to Florida for the winter and I think that I’m the only one left in that area that was able to come tonight to request that you as board members of the Area Plan deny this request. That is all I have to say.


Bob Guy stated, I’m Bob Guy an attorney here in Monticello, and I’m here on behalf of John & June Scheumann. They are unable to be here tonight as well. They asked me to be here on their behalf. They asked that the board considered their letter that they sent on December 2 and January 7 and I believe January 12. They want to renew their opposition to this request to rezone.


President Charles Anderson stated, if there are no other questions, I suggest that we vote.


Without further discussion the board voted.


The results of the vote were as follows: 1 affirmative and 7 negative. This will be presented to White County Commissioners for their action.


#844 Tarquin Rayfield; The property is located on 0.24 acres, more or less East of Monticello between County Road 650 East and Riverview Cemetery, on the South side of Riverview Road. Tabled from the December 8, 2003 meeting.

Violation: None

Request: He is requesting to rezone from A-1 to L-1.

President Charles Anderson asked, is there anyone here representing this request? This one will be dismissed, they will have to reapply.


#848 Morrison Family Trust, Owner; Roxanne Morrison; Applicant: The property is located on 2.898 acres, South of Lowe’s Bridge at 4472 E. Penrod Drive. Tabled from the January 12, 2004.

Violation: Running a dog kennel on the property without being properly zoned.

Request: They are requesting to rezone from R-2 to A-1.

President Charles Anderson asked, is there anyone here representing this request?

Tim Plantenga stated, this isn’t about the kennel, it is about rezoning to an A-1. Before we get started, I’d like to say that when we started thinking about doing this kennel 2 years ago. I sent Roxanne down to the Building and Zoning to see what we needed to start a kennel. They or who ever she talked to ask are you going to build a building. She said no I already have the building and they kind of shrugged their shoulders. She left her name and phone number and we never heard anything about it. Now since the past month or so, we have discovered that we were unincorporated until Liberty Township took over the area in 1993 and rezoned it to an R-2. We had no idea that happened. This is the start of the story.

President Charles Anderson stated, would you like to give us an idea of what you are passing out here.

Roxanne Morrision stated, it is just what I want to say.

President Charles Anderson asked, do you want to present this into the record?

Roxanne Morrison stated, yes. I posted a sign in front of my property as required by the building and zoning commission to rezone from R-2 to A-1. This meeting has nothing to do about a kennel in order to stable my horse from 1987. My late husband and I purchased 2.898 acres in the country. The property is 8 miles North of Monticello, along all roads leading to the property are farmed fields. A cow pasture is along the edge of the Boxman Subdivision, just South of my pasture on East Shafer Drive. We purchased the property from Joseph Wright who had developed much of the attached subdivision. He said he would sell to anyone, but Don Apple. Mr. Apple wanted the property for his Marina. The horse barn was ideal to service and sell boats. He would line boats along the road in the pasture. He rented the pasture one summer and had boats for sale. From day one we have done nothing but improve the property, the grounds have been maintained by mowing and the animals grazing. We fenced the entire acreage with 5’ wire fencing. Four years ago when the foundation for our $30,000 2-story pole barn was being repaired, Mr. Apple asked our workers what they were doing. When he was told a pole barn was going in Mr. Apple told me he would just see about that. For 17 years Mr. Apple has been a two faced neighbor.

President Charles Anderson stated, wow we are not going to get into anything like this.

Roxanne Morrison stated, this is why this is all going on.

President Charles Anderson stated, that does not matter. I’m not going to accept this into the record. You are slandering other people.

Roxanne Morrison stated, I was slandered at the last meeting.

President Charles Anderson stated, we are not here for this business.

Roxanne Morrison stated, I was slandered at the last meeting.

President Charles Anderson stated, we tried to stop anything that was going that way.

Roxanne Morrison asked, so is the next sentence appropriate or not?

President Charles Anderson stated, no, you want to rezone your property. This has nothing to do

Roxanne Morrison stated, now wait the neighbors have brought up in their letters about that my property bringing their property value down. I’m going to sell it.

President Charles Anderson stated, I’m not going to put up with this. We are not going to have that entered into the record. I don’t think that it belongs in the record at all.

Roxanne Morrison stated, well everything that he said in the last meeting was slander.

Tim Plantenga stated, we are going to go through this letter and show you that he has lied to the Commissioners and the neighbors.

Roxanne Morrison stated, my real estate agent, they have inspected my property and they say that Mr. Apple trailer park with all of the ancient trailers and unlivable shacks.

President Charles Anderson stated, forget about the trailer park.

Roxanne Morrison stated, I have my property up for sale now because of the last meeting because of Don Apple. I resent being his escape goat.

President Charles Anderson stated, stop right there, I do not think we need to go into that. We are not here to slander people and we are not going to allow him to slander you either.

Roxanne Morrison stated, well he did at the last meeting and no one said anything about it.

Several talking at once.

President Charles Anderson stated, we are starting to get into personal things.

Roxanne Morrison stated, it has become personal.

President Charles Anderson stated, that is things for the civil court that is not for this meeting.

Tim Plantega stated, he slanders Roxanne and he lied to the County Commissioners.

President Charles Anderson stated, anytime that happens I try to stop it.

Roxanne Morrison stated, it was not stopped at the last meeting.

President Charles Anderson stated, if it wasn’t I’m sorry, but it should have been. We are not going through it now.

Roxanne Morrison stated, okay to my recent inquires to sell. I had an article in the paper, 2 barns, 2 bedroom house on 3 acres, indicates a desire of possible for future owners to have a horse for 4-H children. My original intentions were, I’m not even going to go into any of that. I apologize to the committee and Commissioners for insisting my A-1 zoning had been changed. I honestly did not know that I had no zoning and it was made R-2, until a month ago. I’d like my property rezoned to A-1 due to the fact that the horse barn and pasture are to selling points for people who wish to have a for future 4-H animals I had a perspective buyer.

William Marvin stated, I’m William Marvin. I had just become aware of this property as we started looking for property other than where I reside now. My wife’s aunt knows Roxie and told us about the property. I took the time to come up here to drive by it and I was totally impressed with the way it is set up. It is all fenced in, it is a really nice property. It is not trashy and it is set up to have a pony for my grandson and my daughter. Some chickens. I do not want to start an old McDonald farm, it is a pretty nice chuck of ground for somebody to have the opportunity with young children. My grandson is 4 and the way I see things, animals are good way for children to learn responsibility.

President Charles Anderson stated, before we call anybody else from the audience, do you have anything else you want to say. Do any of the Commissioners have any questions about anything so far?

Tim Plantenga stated, here is a receipt for $41. 24 for a for sale sign we purchased. Here is our original receipt for the $40 sign, the $75.00 petition involves changing zoning R-2 to A-1. This is what this is all about. This is not about a kennel. Going through the letters that we received last month at this meeting that we tabled. We had no idea, it was a total shock that Mr. Apple was coming up here to say all of these things. I’d like to go through these letters and point out. I never spoke to Mr. Burke, he came up here and had 5 signatures, he is not an adjoining neighbor at all. I have pictures to show that. He is also a good friend of Mr. Apple. I’m sure that Don Apple told him as he told all of the other neighbors as he is stressing to the Commissioners here that this is about a kennel. It is not about a kennel. We paid our $75.00 fee for rezoning from R-1 to A-1. You know it and we know it that if we did want to do a kennel we would have to come back in the next month and ask for a variance and we are not going to do that. I didn’t talk to Burke, but I did talk to this scribbled signature of Mazelin and I got his letter here also that he sent in and I would like to go through it. This is the property right here and all of the lines in there are all vacant fields in there. There are no houses anywhere close around. This house here is probably at least 150 yards away.

President Charles Anderson asked, where is the trailer park at?

Tim Plantenga stated, the trailer park is over here on the East side. There is a house here, a trailer here and it was moved. Then on the other side is the Boxman Addition which is cattle grazing, it is all agriculture. The solid orange ones are the ones that Apple owns. The pink house there and here, Apple talked to them about the kennel. I got letters that show that. This letter from Steve Mazelin I don’t know if you all have a copy of it. Some things are very true and some things in this letter make me think that Mr. Mazelin is a confused individual. I would like to refer to my previous letter to the Area Plan Commission dated January 6, 2004. Relevant to the issues concerning the rezoning. There has been further developments since my letter January 6. On January 25 Roxie Morrison along with Tim Plantenga knocked on my door. 4453 East Penrod in an attempt to discuss with me their issues regarding the rezoning application. Mr. Plantenga presented to me a petition that Don Apple presented to the local residents in which there were signed signatures, and I’ll get to that in a little bit, to stop Roxie Morrison from having a kennel. He further stated that Mr. Apple was a liar because the kennel is not the issue, but rather to change the zoning classification of Roxie Morrison property from R-2 to A-1.

President Charles Anderson stated, do not get into name-calling.

Tim Plantenga stated, the reason they gave was to sell the property. Roxie advised me that the property in question was originally zoned A-1 and was changed to R-2.

President Charles Anderson stated, we will get to that later on when it was changed to the R-2 zoning.

Tim Plantenga stated, we have tried, we have beaten a path we have been to this courthouse I don’t know how many times and you can ask Diann. No body can tell us this was done in 1995 and this was done in 1993. Her property was unincorporated and when Liberty Township took over they rezoned it to R-2 without telling her. Diann can tell you this. We are looking at about 14 acres to do the kennel and there are no neighbors. Well there are 3 and we have talked to them and they are fine with what we want to do. They advised they had no intentions of pursuing the kennel at the disputed location. Mr. Don Apple’s petition most certainly, when the petition was presented for signatures to the local residence the kennel was the issue. As far as I’m concerned still is one of the issues. I spoke to Mr. Apple who advised me this past week that he went to the Court House to the Area Plan office and was advised that the property was not zoned at all until 1993. Therefore was an A-1 as Roxie had indicated in. It was zoned for the first time according to Don Apple to R-2 because the area was very obviously residential. That is debatable too. It is also my understanding that the horses and goats and chickens were grandfathered in on the property by Roxie. Since the removal of the horses and goats by Roxie the grandfather clause is now defunct. That is not a true statement. We sold the goats, the horses, and we sold them in the middle of September and we can get a check stub to prove that. We are still grandfathered in, we have 6 months if there is not an animal there. If we are not zoned A-1 then we are bringing the animals back and we will still be grandfathered in. That is another story. As further understand kennel license can not be obtained without first having the area zoned as an A-1. Since I have no guarantee that Roxie is going to have the rezoning and she and Mr. Plantenga will not apply for a kennel license. I have come to the conclusion that it is in the best interest of my family to leave the area zoned R-2. There are no questions to having a kennel adjacent to all of the properties. One reason this guy is against the kennel is because right out side his door is Mr. Apple’s rental house and there is a rottweiler and there is another dog in a wire pen that bark all of the time. We are 200 to 300 yards away from her house. It is a rottweiler and Steve Mazelin he told us that he opened the gate hoping that they would go away because the rottweiler barks all of the time. Roxanne use to drive a school bus and the rottweiler tried to jump in the school bus.

President Charles Anderson stated, you need to stick with what you are trying to do.

Tim Plantenga stated, now getting to Mr. Apple’s letter. We went into shock last month when this was read. I was in shock for days. I went home and went through the letter; I want to point out a few things that you have been deceived on. This was a hard letter to write, we both consider both Roxie Morrison a good friend and a good neighbor. We hope she considers us that way too. We understand once a property is rezoned and remains that way forever and that Roxie can have various breeds of dogs if she is allowed to have a kennel. We are writing this protest to ask that you do not let the Morrison family trust. This area is surround by high density housing on 3 sides and our campground on the 4th side. The noise from Roxie’s dogs is terrible. To date no officer control has been allowed into the fence and locked area where the animals are contained. We talked to the animal control guy and we invited him to come on over anytime. All he has do is call and come in, you are more than welcome. Our tenants in the campground have complained about the loud barking of the dogs. Nobody ever told Roxanne about it. No body called the law. Have you ever heard 30 dogs or how ever many there are barking at the same time. One of our tenants claims that she had at least 50 dogs when he saw them. We don’t have close to 30 dogs. These dogs start barking at the slightest provocation. Could you image hearing that several times a day and night? Would you be able to sleep in a mobile home or camper? In the past we have had to put up with the smell of the horses, goats, fowl and additional geese. The noise and smell that not only entered our house, but prevented us from using our outside deck. We had appeal to the board of health to see that large fly invested manure piles were cleaned up. We must meet strict regulations with our sewers and leach beds so that we do not contaminate our wells and our lakes. Meanwhile the large number of animals, which she has never had a large number of animals. On that small of acres surely is in danger of contaminating them. We know that Blue water beach has had to be closed down at various times from the contamination of the ducks, and or geese. (Tim is just re-reading the letter that is on record)

Tim Plantenga is now showing the board pictures.

Steve Fisher stated, those are going to have to stay in our possession now. Do you know that?

Tim Platenga stated, sure. This is the Morrison property here. (he is explaining what each picture represents)

President Charles Anderson stated, let's not get into this.

Several talking at once.

Tim Plantenga states, this is what everyone who drives down East Shafer drive has to look at. We have to look at this everyday. (He is showing more pictures of Mr. Apple’s property). Those houses have been setting empty for 5 years and no utilities. As you can see no paint on the buildings.

President Charles Anderson asked, how close to the property are these?

Tim Plantenga stated, well right here is a picture of his burn pile. When he burns his leaves every year and he talks about not getting on his deck, we can’t get on ours. (He is explaining what each picture represents.)

President Charles Anderson stated, you need to wrap up as quickly as possible. We have a lot to do.

Tim Plantenga stated, I sure wish I could.

The board is going over some things.

Tim Plantenga stated, this is a note that we received from a family that was visiting the area with their two children. Here is the original. Thanks. We learned so much at your place, we wanted to thank you for the milking cows and the animals at Roxie’s place. We will always remember about our vacation in Monticello.

Steve Fisher stated, I have a question. When you were talking about it being able to be grandfathered by bringing the animals back, if that is the case if you have the power to do that, why are you asking for the A-1?

Several talking at once.

Tim Plantenga stated, here is a letter from the vet stating I have treated Roxie’s animals for years and they are well feed and appear healthy. This proves that she is not abusing the animals. We have another letter here and I don’t want to say whom it is from. We went to the neighbors and asked what Don Apple told them and this is the neighbor at the end of the pasture. Don Apple came to the house about Roxie was putting in a dog kennel and asked me to sign against it. It was not changing from residential to farm. He don’t care about it, he just doesn’t want a kennel. We are not talking about a kennel and we are not going to put a kennel there. This is another letter from another neighbor of Apple. Last December we were approached to sign a petition to keep Roxie Morrison from obtaining zoning permit for a kennel. It is now our understanding that Roxie has no intent to start a kennel, she is just trying to have an A-1 zoning. We have no objections to this.

President Charles Anderson asked, what neighbor is this?

Tim Plantenga stated, it is 2 neighbors down.

David Rosenbarger stated, I have a question, looking at this petition that was signed. On the petition on the last line says, we do not want a kennel in our neighborhood. Is that not an issue with this A-1.

President Charles Anderson stated, well they came to the Board of Zoning Appeals.

David Rosenbarger stated, this board right here has nothing to do with a kennel.

President Charles Anderson stated, no, we consider the best use of the land.

Tim Plantenga stated, if we want to do a kennel, we have to come back, if we get it rezoned A-1 we have to come back in front of the board.

David Rosenbarger stated, I understand that. I’m asking if the petition has any relevant to the board.

Tim Plantenga stated, can I say something about this petition?

David Rosenbarger stated, wait, I want an answer from out attorney. Does the petition have any relevant to us?

Attorney Altman stated, as the kennel is not before us, it.

David Rosenbarger stated, as I was reading the petition is not against the zoning from a R-2 to an A-1, it is against the kennel.

President Charles Anderson stated, Originally you came before us because that was what you originally wanted to do and that is why you wanted to go this way.

Tim Plantenga stated, but there are steps that we have to take.

President Charles Anderson stated, but that was why the kennel came into play.

David Rosenbarger stated, when you first came in you were talking about a kennel, now there not.

Tim Plantega stated, no we weren’t Apple was.

David Rosenbarger stated, you did say you wanted to put a kennel in there.

Tim Plantenga stated, well we know better now and we are not. Getting to this petition with reference to the accompany letter, we the undersigned lend our voices in agreement to the facts to be true and accurate as do our wishes in this matter. We the residence surround the property consider the petition from zoning R-2 to A-1 we do not want a kennel in the neighborhood. The first two signatures are Don Apples, the next two signatures are the couple that I have the letters saying that it is okay, the next signature is the next letter, he lives at the far end of the pasture. The next signature I don’t know who they are we could not get in touch with them. The next 4 signatures are people that moved from trailer #11, Kenneth Bushman, they bought a mobile home, with all of the same address all in Apple’s campground. We move on to the next page. All of these are in Apple’s hand writing.

President Charles Anderson stated, I can not say that or judge that.

Tim Plantenga asked, how can you do that? Isn’t there a law against it? Then on the next page, same thing, we the undersigned, all in his hand writing. Even a neighbor that lives 5154, Don Apple just wrote his name in and calls him the undersigned. Is that deceiving the Commissioners, you better believe it is. So should be call Don Apple our, since he seems to be the only one doing all of this. He has told everybody the zoning change is for a kennel.

Attorney Altman stated, let's get back to the facts.

Tim Plantenga stated, after last months meeting my fiancée Roxanne Morrison cried through night and a lot of the next day, saying how much time, labor, money and sweat was spent fixing her property up. The way she wanted it to be so she could enjoy it the rest of her life. Especially when she can retire and spend time around her garden flowers. Eat the fruits from the trees that she has planted through the years and maybe again get some horses someday. That is the reason that her and her late husband purchased the property to start with, back in 1987. After hearing Don and Katie’s letter last meeting, we were in shock. We felt that the whole neighborhood was against us, and we have no chance at getting rezoned to A-1, like we thought it was before Liberty township changed it to unincorporated without telling us. After going through all of, well I’ll just eliminate that.

Attorney Altman stated, go to the merits of the matter.

Tim Plantenga stated, well Mr. Apple wrote a letter and I feel like.

Attorney Altman stated, get to the merits of the meeting.

President Charles Anderson stated, wait stop, I’ll run the meeting.

Tim Plantenga stated, well I’d like to bring up the fact that this rezoning is about R-2 to A-1 and we paid the $75.00 fee and $40 sign deposit. Apparently Don Apple needs to get himself a new pair of glasses because he missed the sign and lied to everyone, including the committee, the surrounding neighbors, and claiming to be a good friend and neighbor. Keep it in your mind that this is a hearing of rezoning from a R-2 to A-1 not for a kennel. This rezoning problem we are having with the so call residential neighborhood or should I say Don Apple and his campground. Which is the eye in the neighborhood that lowers the value of everyone’s real estate and how would you like to live next to that? The fact that Roxanne Morrison, owner of 2.89 acres, that she purchased in 1987, that she thought was agriculture property so she could keep her two horses. Also there was a barn for horses since the early 80’s is the reason that she made the purchase here in White County. Since the purchase in 1987 not only has she had horse, she also had a deer, geese, rabbits, ducks, and raised a steer so she could have meat in the freezer, and chickens to have eggs. This campground of Apple’s is old and run down and you will fine anywhere.

It seems like Liberty Township took over the Morrison property in 1983 and found out in the last month. Liberty Township never told us they rezoned it to an R-2 and it seems that we have no other options but to sell or move after Don Apple has deceived this committee and all of the neighbors. Even all of the work and money that has been spent to improve the property, which people call Roxie’s mini acres and somebody stole the signed recently that she had. The $60,000 house, the horse barn, and another $30,000 spent on 40 x 60 pole barn and the hours spent by Roxanne Morrison spent and her late husband putting it in.

President Charles Anderson stated, do not get into this again. Just don’t get into this again.

Tim Plantega stated, we also would like to thank the lord and Don Apple for not letting them come back last year. They were gypsies. They started partying late.

President Charles Anderson stated, you are here about rezoning your property, do not get into that.

Tim Plantenga stated, well I guess it is not a perfect world, myself. I had a 12 page letter, but it is down to 4. I was very upset and spent a lot of time writing this letter and rewriting it. Please help us because it is going to take a lot of money to move and get started again after spending 17 years fixing up Roxeanne’s dream home and property and lawn. What kind of value can you put on a 2.89 acres with barn that has been there since the 80’s but you can’t put a horse on the property. I’m asking you to let your conscience be your guide and return this property to A-1, I guess I can’t say return it never was, we didn’t know about it. This is not about a kennel, as you know who has told everybody and deceived the committee.

President Charles Anderson stated, before we get to anyone else.

Roxanne Morrison stated, I just want to point out the fact that two houses South of my pasture on East Shafer Drive is the Boxman Addition. It has a cow pasture and it is zoned A-1 attached to that subdivision is houses similar to mine and sometimes you can here the cows at my house and across that road is a farm field so this is country acreage along East Shafer drive. Mr. Mazelin is trying to say that we are not in the country, we are 8 miles from town so we are in the country. That is all.

President Charles Anderson asked, how was that zoned, do you have any idea at all.

Director Weaver stated, in researching the property, the best I can tell, when Area Plan was in the first stage of development maps where done countywide. These are zoning maps. Since Liberty Township opted not to be part of the Area Plan, the map that was done for Liberty Township was never adopted. It was made up and it was drawn up. When Area Plan did adopt Liberty Township in 1993, that is the map that we put in use.

President Charles Anderson stated, it was never accepted by the township.

Attorney Altman stated, it was it was the original one that was done in 1972.

Steve Fisher stated, we heard a lot of testimony that no one new anything and I think it is more along the lines that they didn’t understand what was going on. That is all in a public meeting at the time and was advertised and I could understand how they didn’t understand what was going on.

Tim Plantenga stated, if Roxanne’s husband was still alive there would be a lot of big trouble.

Steve Fisher stated, there where public meetings on all of those maps. These meetings where held in Liberty Township about this.

Several talking at once.

President Charles Anderson stated, we have heard a lot already, is there anyone else here with any questions on this zoning. If we can get one person to speak for everyone, I don’t want a whole lot repeated from what your side.

Don Apple stated, I guess I’m the subject of this evening. There are some things that I need to bring that are pertinent to the rezoning out there. Not whether my campground is at one place or another, my campground has been there since 19, it has been there for 54 years. I was there a lot longer then what the Morrison’s have been there. Yes my mother let the campground run down to a very bad situation, we have purchased it in the spring of 2001 and we making every attempt to bring that campground back up to where it should be. Mr. Plantenga was very blurgent in the fact that the campground was in such bad shape, I will be the first to admit that it was. He also called the State Board of Health and IDEM and make an examination of it, which they did last week and it passed. There are a few things out there that need to be changed, electrical connections, things like that. There are no trailers setting out there that are empty, no trailers that is in a state of disrepair other than trailers that are being rehab at this point and time. There are 10 empty lots and few are right across the street from him. He was correct about the gypsy. That was a bad mistake on our part. We needed the money at the time and it was an easy, it was a mistake. The reference here tonight has been trying to sway the zoning board from considering what the real initial thing that started this whole thing off.

President Charles Anderson stated, what they are wanting to do is rezone to A-1, basically they have the right to do that whether if they are going to put a kennel in there.

Don Apple stated, yes, we did not understand until I had a chance to talk to Diann that they would have to go back after this to get a special exception to get the kennel in. This was the thing we were trying to stop was the kennel. He is absolutely true in saying that it all started out that was where it was before I had these petitions signed. The petition that he is referring to that has all the names on it was the people that I contacted in our trailer court that are adjacent to the kennel.

President Charles Anderson stated, on this list that you gave us, did you fill out all of the names on there yourself.

Don Apple stated, yes sir I did.

President Charles Anderson stated, these are not their signatures.

Don Apple stated, no, and I did not indicate that they were their signatures. It says on there that I got permission. I called each person and got their permission to put their names on the list. There are only 2 permanent residences there, and the rest are all summertime people. There is no possibility with the short time we had to get their personal signature on that. Again we were trying to stop the kennel, we felt at that time that is what needed to be done. As did all of the neighbors. Mr. Mazelin signed his petition his property back to lots directly up to barn. His comments were even if it was rezoned to A-1 then there is still the probability of bringing in the horses and all of the livestock back in there. He said what is that going to do to the value of his property. With the new assessment we had out there that property is all of sudden pretty valuable. This was his concern, again I regret that Mr. Plantenga took it upon himself to be the judge and jury out there on what the neighborhood looks like. I will say that Roxie probably does have one of the nicest pieces of property out there. Mr. Clawson requested that the sign be taken down and it is still there on the corner. They did not take the sign down, so again the history of this whole thing has been down through the years Roxie pretty much ran things the way she wanted to. It was a compound, she would not let anybody in. The conservation officer tried to get in, the police department has tried to get in.

President Charles Anderson stated, we just heard that was not true.

Don Apple stated, it is absolutely true

Roxanne Morrison stated, he is slandering me again.

President Charles Anderson stated, I’m not allowing it.

Don Apple stated, it is my turn

President Charles Anderson stated, what did I just say.

Roxanne Morrison stated, he is telling you untruth.

President Charles Anderson stated, what did I just say.

Don Apple stated, I’m not going into that. I helped Roxie many times when she was in trouble. She was a good neighbor and still is. I just ask again that you consider the letter from Steve Mazelin and pay attention to the map that I put into evidence last week as to how far her property is from the neighborhood property. Please look at the density of the housing around there. It will reduce the property values, she hasn’t adhered to any of the ordinances out there. She is in violation right now. I bring to you again that petition again that was signed on behalf of the neighbors and the owners of the trailers. I think that the R-2 and I might be mistaken I think the R-2 was so Roxie could build a house. Was it not Diann on that.

Director Weaver stated, the R-2 was put in place when the maps were adopted.

Don Apple stated, I suggest that it is not in the best interest of the residence, and the high density neighborhood. I have already pointed out that the sign is still there. She did take care of her animals. She is a caring person and we really never had a problem with the animals. I just think that this whole thing was started over the kennels and if that is in fact where they stand and switched gears on it. I will leave this to the board.

Tim Plantenga stated, the sign is gone. You can ask Diann.

Director Weaver stated, I showed the pictures of it. The sign is gone, but the piece of plied wood is still there.

Katie Apple stated, Mr. Burke as he told you last week that his had nothing to do with the kennels. He was concerned about the agriculture rating. He brought a petition and I did not talk to this man. He is not necessarily a friend, he is not an enemy, but you know we have had our differences and he and the neighbor do not want agriculture. He is gone.

President Charles Anderson stated, that is the letter that we did receive here.

Katie Apple stated, another thing, there are kennels there, sir, and there are a lot of dogs. Those dogs are not gone. I heard them just this morning and last night. So to say this wasn’t about kennels is certainly not true. We did not lie to you on anything that we said. We did not do this to make trouble. We were fighting that we did not want those dogs there and we still don’t. The man in the camp did say and she did let him in, I have never been on her property. While they were in ours and driving around and taking pictures. WE did not even attempt to do this, we have only tried to be good to them. When it comes to the noise level, that is certainly a loud noise. If you come out sometime you can hear it yourself. The animal control officer when I talked to him, definitely told me.

President Charles Anderson stated, he is not here to make a statement.

Katie Apple stated, no, but he told me that he was not allowed in, he was pretty upset about it. Also sir would you call Dave Schwanke, because I hate to be called a liar. The little foul was a young deer. Just to clarify that. I didn’t lie. He is also the one that told me that a federal man had been called in. Mr. Schwanke will remember the deal.

Tim Plantenga stated, we talked to the animal guy and he said.

Jay Clawson stated, this has nothing to do with this, so don’t bring it up.

Tim Plantenga stated, none of this has anything to do with this.

Several talking at once.

President Charles Anderson stated, we have heard enough now and think we should go ahead and vote.

Tim Plantenga stated, we are moving the dogs out, we got this 14 acres lined up. The dogs, we just can’t move out just like that. The dogs are going with us we are getting out of the neighborhood, so everybody should be happy.

President Charles Anderson stated, with almost 3 acres if it was Agriculture, how many animals could be on it.

Director Weaver stated, the ones we regulate are horses. It will allow 2 horses per 3 acres.

Several talking at once.

Tim Plantenga stated, we are moving out of the neighborhood. I would like to stress to the committee and I’m sure you have heard this 10 or 15 times. Mr. Apple was lead a stray, apparently he couldn’t read that sign that was posted,

President Charles Anderson asked, do the Commissioners have anymore questions on this? If not let's vote.

Without further discussion the board voted.

The results of the vote were as follows: 1 affirmative and 7 negative. This will be presented to White County Commissioners for their action.

President Charles Anderson stated, we have one more thing on this. It is a violation for running a kennel on this property.

Director Weaver stated, I have sent them a letter warning them that they could be fined.

President Charles Anderson stated, they could be fined, and they had no idea that they were in violation at the time. Do we have any recommendations from the board.

Tim Plantenga asked, can you give us 60 days to move out?

President Charles Anderson stated, this is something that we have to discuss. I’m not sure. Do we have any recommendations on anything as far as. I don’t feel that they knew that they were in violation. That property had been used for animals for a long period of time.

Several talking at once.

Steve Fisher stated, I recommend that we give them 60 days.

Several talking at once again.


#850 John O’Connor; The property is located on Lot 2 in Fisher Street Subdivision No. 1 in the City of Monticello at 602 W. Fisher Street.

Violation: None.

Request: He is requesting to rezone from I-1 to B-1.

President Charles Anderson asked, is there anyone here representing this request?

John O’Connor stated, I’m John O’Connor. I’m requesting a rezoning from I-1 to B-1 on a property that I purchased. I was under the impression that this was a commercial property at the time and apparently it was used commercial. I have the tax paper here that says it was property class 499, which is commercial structure, commercial other. If you would like this. I was informed that when a building stands empty over 6 months, that it reverts back to its original zoning.

President Charles Anderson stated, yes, it if was that way.

John O’Connor stated, it was a property that was repossessed by the bank and it had went through the channels for quite a while before it was sold. My intention is to put in a Rental establishment there and run a business from there. The property address is 602 W. Fisher. I don’t know if you are familiar with the building. It was the old American heating and cooling building.

President Charles Anderson asked, you are wanting to rent a business property is what you are wanting to do?

John O’Connor stated, video rentals. I’m in the video business and I have been for 15 years. I’d like to open up a video store there.

President Charles Anderson asked, this is something that you are going to do?

John O’Connor stated, yes, I bought the property.

President Charles Anderson asked, do we have any body here with any questions? Do the Commissioners have any questions?

Director Weaver stated, there is some residential is to the North.

Board is discussing what businesses are around this property.

President Charles Anderson stated, if we don’t have any questions about this, let us vote.

Without further discussion the board voted.

The results of the vote were as follows: 8 affirmative and 0 negative. This will be presented to City of Monticello for their action.


#851 Richard W. Turbin; The property is located on 1.703 acres, West of Lowe’s Bridge at 4021 and 4023 E. Monon Road.

Violation: None

Request: He is requesting to rezone from R-2 to B-2.

President Charles Anderson asked, is there anyone here representing this request?

Richard Turbin stated, I’m Richard Turbin. My family has owned this property for about 30 years and there has been a business on it for the last 48 years. The way I understand it, when it came into zoning it was grandfathered in and the building was the only portion grandfathered in and the rest of the property was divided into two lots. I’m seeking to make a subdivision out of it and I’m selling the end lot to Mr. Steve Stearns is going to but a storage building and an office there. There is still another building that is on the corner that is rented. I would like to get it rezoned to business.

President Charles Anderson asked, do we have anybody here with any questions on this request?

Jack Valkenburg stated, I’m Jack Valkenburg, and I own the adjacent property to Mr. Turbin’s there. My question is, and I’m not really objecting to the rezoning. I just want to know what business we are talking about, if it is going to be storage of equipment, animals, or garbage.

Richard Turbin stated, I can answer that. I know what Mr. Stearn is planning on putting there. He owns S & H Marine and they put in sea walls around the lake. He currently owns a building up in Buffalo and he is going to move that portion of his business there. Part of it is going to be a pole building and part of it is going to be his office. The rest will be storage of things, like tractors, equipment that they would use for the sea walls. It will be inside the building.

Jack Valkenburg stated, I don’t know what B-1 or B-2 and all that stands for. My house is at the end of that and if he is going to have night-lights shining in my bedroom window, I don’t want that.

President Charles Anderson stated, being zoned B-2 does he have to have a fence.

Jack Valkenburg stated, I wasn’t registering an objection, I just wasn’t sure what was going in there.

Steve Fisher asked, what kind of fence is there now, is it 4’ or 6’.

Richard Turbin stated, it is a farm fence.

Director Weaver stated, it has to be covered, it can be vegetation or.

Steve Fisher stated, you can put a vegetation screen up. It has to be solid.

Director Weaver stated, it has to be 8’ tall.

Richard Turbin stated, I live behind it and do I need to put the fence up there also.

Jay Clawson stated, if you sell the residential property, yes you have to have the fence.

Several talking at once.

President Charles Anderson asked, are there any more questions on this. If not let's vote.

Without further discussion the board voted.

The results of the vote were as follows: 8 affirmative and 0 negative. This will be presented to White County Commissioners for their action.


#852 Jack C. & Fern H. Martin; The property is located on 5.673 acres, Southeast of Brookston on the Southeast corner of County Road 1100 S. and County Road 200 E.

Violation: None

Request: They are requesting to rezone from A-1 to R-1.

President Charles Anderson asked, is there anyone here representing this request?

Jack Martin stated, some 30 years ago we purchased the McClellan orchard and our pickers have helped us. We are thinking of putting a small acreage of home along 1100 and 200. They will be 1500 sq. ft. and they will be in line with the homes on Apple View Dr. and 200. We expect to comply with some of the suggestions that you have. My last visit with you, we have had the surveys made, drainage made. I will answer any questions that you might have.

President Charles Anderson asked, do we have anybody with any questions on this?

Gene Tateman stated, I’m Gene Tatman and I deal with the hog operation. How much effect is this going to have on this?

President Charles Anderson asked, how close is your?

Gene Tateman stated, right to the side of the fence.

Gene Tatman stated, there are already complaints about the smell and I don’t need anymore complaints. I know that last time there was nothing you can do about it, well I talked to the Commissioners and they say there is. I’m not too sure we want a bunch of more houses in there having complaints.

President Charles Anderson asked, do any of the Commissioners have any questions for either one of these gentlemen?

Jack Martin stated, in the 30 years that we have owned the orchard, I have provided school tours for up to 3000 students from White and Tippecanoe Counties. One of the high lights on the tour was the going through the orchard on a wagon ride. When we get down in the South end of the orchard, we headed towards Gene’s property and we saw.

President Charles Anderson asked, is this about the rezoning or the odor? What are you trying to do?

Jack Martin stated, I’m trying to explain that I don’t see what hazard we are. We are not talking about where Gene is. As a matter of fact his operation would pose problems. We were thinking we might put that in Christmas trees down there. I’m just trying to show that we have been good citizens, and brought a lot of people to White County. We have furnished apples. We have seen everything and we have always had a nice relationship. I don’t think that we have had a cruel word between us.

President Charles Anderson stated, he does have concerns. Hog operations do have odors and he has been in the hog business for quite a few years and it would be a concern to him, if a whole lot of housing came into an area where he was trying to raise hogs.

Several talking at once.

President Charles Anderson asked, how far will they be?

Jack Martin stated, the operation is at the South end and the houses would be at the North end right on 1100.

President Charles Anderson asked, how many houses are you proposing?

Jack Martin stated, 7 houses.

President Charles Anderson asked, what kind of acreage are you talking about?

Jack Martin stated, roughly 2 acres.

President Charles Anderson asked, do any of the Commissioners have any questions?

Is this going to have septics?

Jack Martin stated, yes.

Steve Fisher stated, what is the deal with the R-1?

Director Weaver stated, R-1 allows single family. I did receive a call from Dan Banes this morning. He called to just let me know that Mr. Martin had been in touch with him and he has looked the soil test and he stated that septic systems could go in the area as long as they permanent drains.

President Charles Anderson asked, do we have any other questions?

David Scott asked, where is your farm from this location?

Gene Tatman stated, it is the next 40 acres over to the East.

Steve Fisher stated, you do realize that as an A-1, he could actually make agriculture subdivision and have basically 5 houses without getting our approval. If he is talking about 7 that are only 2 more than the other. People can do agriculture subdivision at 1 acres lots.

President Charles Anderson stated, it would have to meet all of the standard requirements.

Steve Fisher stated, in theory he can have 5 houses out there, without going before us. This is just to let you know. What ever this board decides is not necessarily, he can still change it to what he is asking.

David Scott asked, can homeowners shut down a hog operation if they are creating a nuisance?

Several talking at once.

Attorney Altman stated, you don’t know the future. Generally with the right to farm law that is in place, plus the fact the privacy being first there. It is generally sufficient to hold the hog operation there. However, one never knows what the future is.

President Charles Anderson asked, how big of an operation do you have there?

Gene Tatman stated, around 300 hogs at a time, 60 sows and 60 head of cattle.

President Charles Anderson asked, do any of the Commissioners have any more questions?

Without further discussion the board voted.

The results of the vote were as follows: 5 affirmative and 3 negative. This will be presented to White County Commissioners for their action.


#292 Bronislaw Stefaniak; Requesting approval of a 2 lot subdivision to be known as Stefaniak Subdivision on .269 of an acre. The property is located in the City of Monticello on the Northwest corner of St. Mary’s Avenue and Main Street.

President Charles Anderson asked, is there anyone here representing this request?

Ben Stefaniak stated, I’m Ben Stefaniak and I want that to be subdivided there. I don’t plan on having any deer or dog kennel there. I just want to put a house on it. It is a good location and it just sets idle.

President Charles Anderson asked, do we have any questions from the board?

Jay Clawson stated, the setbacks are suppose to be 32’ from any road and neither of those are the requirements. The rear set back is to be 30’ for subdivision. It only has a 10’ setback.

President Charles Anderson stated, so it really doesn’t meet the requirements.

Director Weaver stated, there was a variance previously granted.

Jay Clawson stated, that doesn’t mean that it meets our requirements to our subdivision. That is something that has been changed, plus by having 2 duplexes on here.

Ben Stefaniak stated, there isn’t 2 duplexes on there.

Jay Clawson stated, well there is one on the other side. He is going to have to show that each unit is suppose to have 2 parking spaces for each unit, which is suppose to be parking spaces are to be 9’ x 18’. It doesn’t show that there is enough space to park the cars straight in front of there without being on City right-of-way. The parking spaces all have to be on the subdivision, instead of parking in the city right-of-way.

Ben Stefaniak stated, they will park at the other duplex facing into the duplex. This will be no different than at the duplex.

David Rosenbarger stated, it has to be off street parking.

Jay Clawson stated, I understand that, but if you park them straight on an 18’ spot, he doesn’t have enough room in there.

Ben Stefaniak asked, what if we park it side ways? Would that be all right? I think that is the way the people park now at the duplex.

Jay Clawson stated, when you draw up a subdivision it is suppose to meet the list of criteria that we have for subdivisions. It doesn’t meet the criteria.

Ben Stefaniak asked, what about the duplex across the street. They have no parking and how did that get through. Now you are going to fight me on this one.

Jay Clawson stated, that was 10 years ago. They got a special variance to put those duplexes in and when they asked for that variance a lot of people on the board stated that they didn’t know they where getting a variance to put 2 duplexes, they just thought they were giving a variance for the setbacks for one. I’m just saying that with all of this subdivision a year ago and we had a list of criteria that it didn’t meet, plus we had a request from somebody else from Monticello for a two lot subdivision and we turned it down for the same. We find the City of Monticello is not in favor of subdividing single lots in town. We are making common practice to be selling half lot.

Ben Stefaniak stated, how common would that be. This is probably the first request that you have ever had. I can show you places down by the AKK, you got these houses that are about this far apart. Those are grandfathered. Now you know by looking at the plat that isn’t going to bother anybody. Some people have business and you come up to the corner you can’t even see because it is grandfathered in.

President Charles Anderson stated, we don’t have any control of business.

Ben Stefaniak stated, I think that there is ample room there to put a home on there and it isn’t going to bother anybody. I thought we went through a variance before.

Steve Fisher stated, with the duplex, the lot size of the duplex wouldn’t that make the duplex non-conforming because it has got to be 10,000 square foot. That is 6300 the way it is drawn.

Director Weaver stated, the way I understand he went through a variance for few years ago for that duplex. Well at that time the variance was for both lots.

Steve Fisher stated, one piece though, but if you are cutting more property off of that then you are reducing that lot size. He is going to make that duplex a non-conforming lot size.

Director Weaver stated, I understand that. I may have put that on there wrong.

Steve Fisher stated, I’m saying that this is all one parcel now, which is 90 plus 75 more feet in length and then it is 70’ wide. You can do the duplex on that. If you cut that front section off you have made the duplex to small of lot for a residential duplex. It is suppose to be 10,000.

Several talking at once.

President Charles Anderson stated, if it doesn’t meet out rezoning ordinance we really can not pass this.

Ben Stefaniak stated, I thought we went through variances already to do this.

Steve Fisher stated, you may have had a variance for where it was located or whatever, but for a duplex you need 10,000’ of a lot size.

Ben Stefaniak asked, how about the one across the street? How many square feet?

Several answered they got a variance.

Steve Fisher stated, we don’t do that, you have to go to a different board to do that.

Ben Stefaniak stated, I have been screwed around go here, go there, and I have spent a lot of money and I just keep going around in circles. That property just sets there.

Steve Fisher stated, we do not have the power to do that, even if we wanted to.

Ben Stefaniak stated, what is the process here. This is a piece of property just setting here. It isn’t doing anyone any good.

Steve Fisher stated, I understand that, but you can not make your other lot non-compliant by changing this. You just can’t do it.

Jay Clawson stated, as long as we can not act on something that makes another piece of property non-compliant. Right Jerry?

Attorney Altman stated, right. That is why we have had to turn down subdivisions.

Steve Fisher stated, we did deny one last year that was a similar type.

Director Weaver stated, this was denied last year.

Ben Stefaniak asked, why do I keep coming here and hiring surveyors and paying money if it can’t be done? Why am I not being told this before I even come here?

Steve Fisher stated, the board did tell you that the last time you were here.

Jay Clawson stated, we have the minutes here that show you were turned down last year on this.

Several talking at once.

Attorney Altman stated, you file on this as many times as you like. We can’t tell you too.

Director Weaver stated, I did send you a copy of the minutes from the last meeting.

Ben Stefaniak asked, why am I going to Milligan and he doing all of this work and costing me money. I go up there and spend $100 to put it through and then I come up here and blah, blah, blah, you can not do it. I don’t understand, what is going on. Is this it?

President Charles Anderson stated, it was non-compliance the last time. You were told that the last time.

Steve Fisher stated, this is May 13, 2002. It says that Vice President Clawson stated, this is to you either way you look at it, we can not divide this property or have this varying it from a plan of certain situations. Are there any other questions from the board? The answer was no and without further discussion the board voted.

Ben Stefaniak stated, so the doors are shut, I can’t go any further with this.

Steve Fisher stated, no that is not correct.

Ben Stefaniak asked, where do I go now? Do I see the Mayor, or the Governor?

President Charles Anderson stated, you can try to get a variance for the other lot.

Several are talking at once.

President Charles Anderson stated, it still has to been the subdivision ordinance. The new lot. You had a variance on the old lot to put a house on it. You still have to meet the standards with the new lot. If it isn’t big enough you can not put it there.

Ben Stefaniak stated, so the doors are closed. Can I go for a variance? Where do I go? Diann I don’t know why you didn’t advise me on this.

Director Weaver stated, I tried to, I gave you copies of the minutes so that you could look for yourself and see where the problem was.

Ben Stefaniak asked, why did you not tell me that I was wasting my money, my time. You didn’t tell me that.

Director Weaver stated, that is not for me to tell you.

Ben Stefaniak stated, why not, who is it up to.

Director Weaver stated, you have the option to file this request as many times as you want to. I provided you with the evidence from the last meeting showing you why it was denied the last time. I don’t know what more I can do. I’m not going to tell you no you can’t file.

Ben Stefaniak stated, so in other words you didn’t know that if I can up here I didn’t have a variance, I’m wasting their time, just like this guy with the kennels, why didn’t you tell me I had to have a variance?

President Charles Anderson stated, even with a variance I don’t know if there is enough room on that lot to do what you want to do. I don’t think you can do anything with it.

Ben Stefaniak asked, can you put a kennel on it?

President Charles Anderson stated, no.

Ben Stefaniak stated, thank you.

President Charles Anderson stated, so from that I take this has been withdrawn.


President Charles Anderson stated, we have a visitor here and would you like to address the boad.

Tom Spackman stated, I’m Tom Spackman. I’m here to talk about the amusement industry. I’m not sure how up to date everyone is on what happened with the suit that was against the county and us regarding the roller coaster. We finally ended up purchasing the property because that was the easiest way out of the dilemma. By the time you add up the legal costs, you could win the case and come out without absolutely nothing. I would rather buy a ride and make a further investment or do something like that. What that particular suit pointed out was the situation with the existing ordinance and the fact that we were never recognized as an amusement park. In the past it was deem that B-2 was satisfactory. I’m very much concerned that any neighbor that wants to bring a similar can do so, based on the way the ordinance stands today. We can go through the same entire process. We also have the problem with Judge Smith saying basically the County has no rights to grant variances. Based on his appeal. That throws everything up in the air. I asked our attorneys to go ahead and draft up corrects to establish definitions for an amusement park and put basically supply a copy of that to the board as a proposed amendment to it. So we can get a different classification on it. The amusement industry is just like any other industry. The convention of parks and attractions attracted 30,000 in Orlando this year. That is the 2nd highest that we have had. The highest was right before the recession. A park like Cedar Point will draw, it is a seasonal park, and it will draw over 3.5 million people in a 3-month season. Kings Island will do 2 million. Six Flags in Chicago will draw 2.5 million. In a good year here we hope to do 750,000 people. The more attractions that you have, it helps in your attendance. The industry pretty much gears itself on being able to bring something new to the party each year. Roller Coasters have been the big attractions in the past few years. Last year Cedar Point put in a coaster that is over 400’ high. The ride lasts 20 seconds. Before that they had a coaster the millennium force that was 300’ in the air. They also have S & S Towers, we have small tower about 85’ tall. Theirs is 320’. There are 3 of them. The industry is going various directions and there are more attractions going towards dark houses or thrill rides. You’ve got the coasters, industry is just exploding all directions. I brought some trade publications, we have in the industry many trade publications. They did a nice article on the park a couple of years ago. I never could translate it so I’m not quite sure what it says. The pictures look pretty.

Let me just pass this around. (Passing things out to the board members.) That just gives you some ideas of our existing ordinance says 45’ is the maximum.

Jay Clawson asked, what is the highest ride you have now?

Tom Spackman stated, We have several that are, Hoosier Hurricane is 110’, Skycoaster is 106’, Double shot is 85’ and another 15’ for the sign up on top of it. The sky ride gets up to 60’. With the existing ordinance we really need clarification as to what amusement rides are and how they are regulated, whether it is the state or the county. This is what the attorneys tried to draw up as far as the proposed amendments that we sent to the board. I don’t know if every body has seen those.

Attorney Altman stated, they were circulated, so they have seen them.

Tom Spackman stated, in our business the thing that you’ve got to have is lights, action, and noise, mostly music. We tried to keep the music down and I know we did a disco on the beach one night and that upset a couple of people, so we haven’t done that again. We try to keep the lights so that they don’t effect the surrounding neighborhood and we are going more to the lights that are up high and focus down on the ground, so that you don’t have that kind of problems. I’d be happy to answer any questions anybody has.

Attorney Altman stated, just for the board how critical do you believe it is changing the ordinance to your liability?

Tom Spackman stated, personally it is very critical because I would hate to pay another $200.00 out in legal fees. I think the door is wide open for any kind of suit like that, if anybody wants to bring it. Right now both the County and us do not have a leg to stand on without the county having any.

President Charles Anderson stated, you say any variance we give you will not hold up in court at all.

Tom Spackman stated, according to the Judge Smith. He said we needed to rewrite the ordinance.

President Charles Anderson stated, before you have been managed pretty much by the State.

Tom Spackman stated, we still are. All rides are managed by the State. Anytime we put in a new ride we have to take the plans down to the State to get a permit from them.

President Charles Anderson stated, is there a regulation from the State as far as height.

Tom Spackman stated, no, not on height. You can do it as high as you want.

Attorney Altman stated, the height is one thing we have through this lawsuit that says. I think Tom says it right is that the Judge did say the variance is not really feasible on any ground and therefore the way he said, is change the ordinance.

David Rosenbarger stated, that is where we are at, we can change the ordinance, so we can have the right to say what.

Attorney Altman stated, the ordinance to conform with the specks of the industry, I think Judge Smith, he didn’t say that, but I read between the lines, and what I really think if the industry requirements are the height of what Mr. Spackman is talking about here. Then you better change your ordinance to control that. A variance is not the way you are going to get to be allowed to do it.

Several talking at once.

David Scott asked, Jerry, have you read this proposal?

Attorney Altman stated, yes, and I think it addresses other things that were brought up beyond the height. In the transcript of the matter that was before the BZA and I think it properly addresses those with specifications in there and still makes for restriction and makes so that there are proper control. It allows for them to be competitive in the industry.

David Rosenbarger asked, under the amended under table 1 permitted use in the B-2 district. Does this apply to all business district or is this a district all of its own?

Attorney Altman stated, this is not a district of its own.

David Rosenbarger stated, so we are going to allow campgrounds, parks, playgrounds in B-2.

Several talking at once.

David Rosenbarger stated, if we were to adopt this, it would let anybody that got B-2 zoning would be automatically put in a campground.

Steve Fisher stated, can’t we just put the language in there with the Special exception. Then it goes back to what they want to do.

Attorney Altman stated, they do have the special exception now.

Steve Fisher stated, but what he is saying is that other people out in the county not be allowed to put a campground in with out a special exception.

Attorney Altman state, exactly if you modify the language that is proposed by their attorney’s.

Several talking at once.

David Rosenbarger stated, I take it that you have read all of this. Is there anything else that would effect through out the county our other ordinance?

Attorney Altman stated, of course there is, but I don’t think it effects thing adversely. Most of this has to do with amusement parks and the standards for the rides, the regulated amusement device. I think it make it pretty dog gone specific. I don’t think that the special provisions affect hardly anything else but this. The performance standards I think those are, maybe on the side of quieter. I thought you would want them actually.

Several talking at once.

David Rosenbarger stated, the only thing that sticks out is the Table 1, A,B,C. It automatically let's anyone start an amusement park, put up a campground, or do a park and playground with no exceptions what so ever.

Director Weaver stated, right and all three of those things currently require a special exception.

Several talking at once again.

David Rosenbarger stated, I understand what Mr. Spackman is asking, but I don’t like the fact just automatically permit it language.

Attorney Altman stated, I agree with you, but I guess from their prospective trying to put the other shoe on. Since they have the special exception.

David Rosenbarger stated, the way it is worded right here is that all 3 of those in B-2 district can automatically put it in.

President Charles Anderson asked, do we want to get a group together and go over this and work out the changes that you want to make to it and then bring it back.

Several taking at once.

Steve Fisher asked, what about the wetland portion? Is that going to cause a problem that they have to certify? Is that something that everybody comes in on B-2 has to get certified that they are in compliance with the wetlands, blah, blah, blah.

Director Weaver stated, we don’t know where the wetlands are. We don’t have maps showing us that.

Steve Fisher stated, I understand that, but what I’m asking is a person applying for a subdivision or plan unit development must certify that the plan development is in full compliance. So they are going to have to bring in another piece of paper saying that I’m in compliance with this. Is that what we are going to ask for? It seems like the person applying. So who ever brings it in.

Several talking at once.

President Charles Anderson asked, does anyone want to chair the board for this?

David Rosenbarger stated, I will.

President Charles Anderson asked, does anyone what to help him?

Attorney Altman stated, I would like to go over the legal point of view with you guys. I’d like to have the board.

Several talking at once.

Tom Spackman stated, I would like to mention one more thing. This is a calendar put out by the American Coastal enthusiasts. It kind of surprised us. We didn’t realize that they were putting us on the cover.

Everyone was looking at the calendar.

David Rosenbarger

Steve Fisher

Greg Bossaer

Jay Clawson

President Charles Anderson asked, do we have any other business?

Several talking at once.


The meeting adjourned.

Respectfully submitted,

Stephen Fisher, Secretary

White County Area Plan Commission

Diann Weaver, Director

White County Area Plan Commission