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The White County Area Plan Commission met Monday, December 13, 2004, at 7:30 p.m. in the Commissioners’ Meeting Room, Second Floor, County Building, Monticello, Indiana.

Members attending were: Jay Clawson, Gary Barbour, David Rosenbarger, Charles Anderson, David Scott, Charles Mellon, Don Ward, Robert Thomas, Dennis Sterrett. Also attending were Attorney Altman and Director Weaver.

Visitors Attending were: R. Joe Roach, Mark Martin, Joyce Martin, Larry E. Weaver, Nancy Weaver, Ralph Walker, Nancy Walker, Josh Small, Bill Pyle, Don Pauken, Kenneth Kyburz, Jeff VanWeelden, Harold Jordan, Carey Jordan, John Heimlich, John Raines, Terri Raines, Myron Barnes, Floyd England, and Tom Spackman

The meeting was called to order by President Charles Anderson and roll call was taken. Charles Mellon made a motion to dispense with reading and approve the minutes of the November 8, 2004 meeting. Motion was seconded by Don Ward and carried unanimously.

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#864 Rangeline Properties, Inc., Owner; Jeff VanWeelden, Applicant; The property is located on 4.00 acres, West of Monticello on the Northeast corner of Division Road and County Road 300 E.

Violation: They are currently using this property for business use without being properly zoned.

Request: They are requesting to rezone from A-1 to I-2.

President Charles Anderson asked, is there anyone here representing this request?

Jeff VanWeelden stated, I’m Jeff VanWeelden.

President Charles Anderson asked, do we have anyone here with any questions about this request?

Don Pauken stated, I’m Don Pauken and I live at 1186 Hanawalt. The first question I have is the present Range Line properties on the South side what is that zoned.

Director Weaver stated, I believe that is zoned an I-2.

Don Pauken stated, I-2. Is there any exceptions or variations?

Director Weaver stated, there is a special exception on the property as well.

Don Pauken asked, is it the same as what is going to be discussed Thursday night?

Director Weaver stated, I’m not sure what you are asking.

President Charles Anderson stated, there is a meeting.

Director Weaver stated, there is a special exception hearing for this property Thursday night for the North side.

Don Pauken stated, that matches what is on the South side. Is that correct?

Director Weaver stated, I can’t tell you exactly how it is worded, I believe it is for storage of business equipment.

President Charles Anderson asked, would you like to respond to that?

Jeff VanWeelden stated, yes, Thursday night is for a variance to store the containers there. This is for zoning it to I-2, which I need to have the containers there for storage. Then on Thursday it is for a variance actually is for to store trucks there not the run off but to store.

Don Pauken asked, is it logical if you have the same variance and the same zoning that you could do the same thing back and forth on both sides of the road?

Jeff VanWeelden stated, if it had the same zoning and I was running off of there, then you could if it had the same variance. All I’m looking for is for storage.

Don Pauken stated, right now you are looking for storage.

Jeff VanWeelden stated, right I’m asking for a variance for storage and would be fine with me.

Don Pauken stated, I have a petition here of.

President Charles Anderson asked, do you want to present this to our lawyer here?

Don Pauken stated, this is of signatures that oppose the rezoning and also Thursday night obviously. Personally I object for several reasons and I object the purpose of increasing the size capacity of this waste facility, which it is, known as Range Line properties at Division Road and 300 E for these reasons. There is a high potential of soil and ground water contamination. People have wells in this area. This is a wetland, if you have driven by there lately quite a bit of it probably over an acre is under water. Guess which way the water flows from that property. It goes east. Everybody from that property could be affected all the way to the river. There is a potential of air contamination from the asbestos dust. Anytime that a building is demolished especially older buildings you are going to get. There is asbestos in a lot of these places that are older buildings and so forth. Normally some people even States, Counties, Cities, they regulate before a place is demolished, they must go in there and have special guys looking for the asbestos. The asbestos is removed and these guys are wearing these suits. That goes to a special waste facility. Then the demolishing crew comes in and takes care of the rest. I don’t know if Indiana has that problem, but Rent One. Certainly these people are using Rent One roll on to demolish things and so forth. Where do those containers go? They go directly to the dump or do they go back to Rent One. If that stuff is compressed or transferred to another container there are dust particles and you know what the problem is with asbestos. I don’t want be involved in that.

There is an increase potential for insects and other varmints for the whole area. Obviously this will impact anyone living close by. Rats, mice, coons, and so forth. Mosquitoes, water. Increase the possibility of undesired odors. Anytime you have trash, residual trash setting around, and garbage what is going to happen smell. A lot of the garbage is picked up and they do have garbage trucks on the premises. That stuff, sometime it is a week before that stuff is picked up, so it does smell and that is going to attract the insects and other things, but the odors are going to be bad. There is going to be an increase of traffic because of the increase of volume, more traffic wear and tear on the road etcetera. I object because it increases the potential for liter, more traffic, whether you like it or not more liter. Do you want liter in your front yard live on Hanawalt? The unsightly appearance, I hope you have driven by the property and looked at it. To me it looks like a junkyard setting in a bog. Obviously this decreases any land values for the area. I ask you finally who of you would want to live near it. Thank you.

President Charles Anderson asked, do you want to respond to any of that Jeff?

Jeff VanWeelden stated, yes. With regards to the asbestos you have to get a special permit to transfer it once you pick it up from a site. Once you pick it up from a site and your pick day and delivery to the land fill, I mean we have permits to haul it. It has to go directly to the landfill, it has to go from site to the landfill. You have to have that all filled out before a job is even done. So in terms as asbestos coming back to the facility I mean the State Regulations, I mean it can’t happen. I have to take it immediately in correspondence with the permit. If I say when I have to pick it up I have to notify the landfill and bring it straight to them. It is a regulated waste, but it is not a hazardous waste is how it is sighted. You don’t have a manifest to transfer it.

President Charles Anderson stated, as far as water over there right now the area you are using for storage, is it dry?

Jeff VanWeelden stated, the area I’m using is dry. The water that is sitting on that is actually to the West of the property on 300 East it would be the northwest corner is the way. It has set with water as long as I have driven past there. When it is wet it is soft back there and water stands in that far corner. We will not have the containers setting there, it will be in the northeast corner of the lot and there is no trash setting in any of the containers. The three trucks I have setting there have no trash in them. There are empty containers setting there.

President Charles Anderson asked, do you have trash in your other containers setting on the other side of the road during the day?

Jeff VanWeelden stated, if I pick one up after it is tarped, I have them tarped. Sometimes I have a box setting there with straight wood in it or I have a steel box that sets there. All of the trash trucks are parked inside over night. Our routes focus on the landfill. We start at a certain spot towards a base and we circle to end up at the landfill about 4:00 in the afternoon so we can dump. We don’t to come to work in the morning and set in the office and smell that all day either. I watch for odor problem because I don’t want it to be unpleasant for any of the neighbors as much as possible. I put the containers where I did because of the way the water flows. Every container setting over is empty, I don’t plan on running a business off of there. I’m just like I said last month when I was here I’m looking for strictly storage. I’ve got them lined up. I have planted 25 trees out there along between I think it is about 8 acres. It would be to the East of where the containers are. I planted 25 trees along there and when the other part goes dry I would like to plant other trees along 300.

President Charles Anderson asked, how do you come into that property? Do you come off of 300 or come down.

Jeff VanWeelden stated, I come down 24 past Hanenkratt down 300. If we come up Hanawalt Road it obviously we go down every Monday picking, but we do I mean I’m not saying that truck never comes up Hanawalt Rd. My guys have been instructed to go 24 to keep truck traffic out of the residential area.

President Charles Anderson asked, are these covered when they come in?

Jeff VanWeelden stated, yes 100%, they have to be tarped.

President Charles Anderson asked, do any of the Commissioners have any more questions?

Charles Mellon stated, as far as that water, I would say that water in the Northwest corner of that lot next to 300 as you go North. If you remember 3 or 4 years ago the water that probably would be going across Hanawalt Road and East there is a big tile put across there. The county had trouble with the road in there with soft weather. Water usually set on top of it.

Jeff VanWeelden stated, that tile drain is completely open.

Charles Mellon stated, that water goes South out of that. I don’t know how long he thinks that the water goes East down Hanawalt Road. I don’t know exactly where he lives, but the place right East of your place that farm field and that first house sold at a Sheriff sale last week. I don’t know whether any of the people here knew that. I wonder if they found it out who bought that or what is going in it or what they are going to do with it. I know that out there as far as being a sorry looking thing. That field along there has been a sorry looking mess for 20 or 30 years. We hauled grain from Buffalo up that road years ago and it has always been a swamp. Your place that you bought could be cleaned up and take a mower out there and knock down all of the weeds and get the grass growing in there. I don’t think that there is anything wrong with starting up a business like that.

Jeff VanWeelden stated, I have full intentions of improving the property. Everything you do to improve it cost money. I can only do as much as I can at a time. Like I said I’m not looking to run my business off of there, I’m looking to store empty containers on that premise. Those three trucks setting over there are all empty. Hopefully there will only be 2 trucks setting over there.

President Charles Anderson stated, we have a question back there. Want to come forwards please.

John Raines stated, I’m John Raines and I live on Hanawalt Road. I live at 1190 Hanawalt Road. I’m opposing this and some of the things that I’ve heard here are exactly true. Charlie that property has probably held water for 30 years. That is called a wetland. The wetland, why would you want to put garbage on top of a wetland.

Charles Mellon stated, I don’t think he is going.

John Raines stated, wait a second. I’m not saying that he is going to put the garbage on there and I’m not going to say that he is going to leave it on there. My point is, he says he is not going to operate from that property. Jeff I understand what you are saying when you say you are going to store those things over there. If I wanted to rent one tomorrow you would go onto that property and you would get your truck and pull it off of there and you would deliver it to my property correct?

Jeff VanWeelden stated, as it is right now, I would. As it is right now I would move the containers back over to the property like they asked me, the red containers. If you called me for one tomorrow it would come off them. That is why I was using it for storage. When I say operate I’m talking about putting a building there and run garbage trucks out of there on a daily bases.

John Raines stated, I have not heard anything that says putting a building there. I’m saying that is part of your business. Those containers are a part of your business.

Jeff VanWeelden stated, yes sir.

John Raines stated, now I guess when I look at it, if you are going to go on to that property and take that container up and bring it to my property then that is a part of your business.

Jeff VanWeelden stated, yes it is.

John Raines stated, that is a part of your business. All I keep hearing is we are just going to store it there. We are just going to store it there until somebody rents it and we will take it to them and we are going to allow them to fill it and then we are going to take it to the landfill, supposable, or to the transfer station, and we are going to dump it. Then we are going to take it back it back over there and park it. Am I correct?

Jeff VanWeelden stated, correct.

John Raines stated, if that has garbage in it then I know that you can’t get those completely empty. Consequently the first rain we get we end up with what ever was put in that container washing out and going into the wetland and yes I understand what you are saying, but I think what Mr. Pauken was trying to state is that eventually whether the water right off of that property runs across 300 and into a tile or it runs North off of the property onto Mr. Wuethrich’s property and into the ditch, they all eventually end up in the Tippecanoe River, or Lake Freeman, or Lake Shafer. They all end up there.

Charles Mellon stated, the one on Hanawalt doesn’t.

John Raines stated, what I think Mr. Pauken was also trying to get at was the ground water. Which is where our wells are at. The flow of the ground water is going to be the same direction. It is going to go towards the lakes or the Tippecanoe River. It all ends up there. I have a lot of other issues that I see. Yes, I think it is an eye sore. And yes you could plant a lot of really pretty trees and all of those work and it makes to where you don’t see near as much as what you would normally. With any kind of trash business you are going to end up with liter. The trees are not going to stop that. It is going to blow off of that property.

Charles Mellon stated, you don’t see much liter around the land fill any more do you.

John Raines stated, they have people that pick that liter up all of the time. Anytime that you’ve got a wind you’ve got it. You’ve got liter. I’ve out there all of the time. I know that they send people out all of the time picking up that liter. Those are some of the stipulations that I would like to see there. I’d like to see a fence surrounding it, which I think, would be a part of IDEM regulations. It would be around the transfer station.

Jeff VanWeelden stated, correct. I would put a fence around the entire property the first day I moved in. I wanted to put a fence around there when I got it.

John Raines stated, those are some of the stipulations I’d like to see.

Jeff VanWeelden stated, I’m more than willing to take any consideration any request concerns whatsoever that any neighbors have in terms of having someone out there on windy days. I mean on windy days garbage is blowing out of peoples burn barrels. You have more coming out of plastic that people are burning and hitting the air than an asbestos job that is knocked down on the ground that is laying there. More chemicals come out of a burn barrel and I know garbage, you can set your garbage out any morning and you take it out every other week and it is windy it could blow in the road. A school bus any way could come by and hit it, tear it open, and the trash is going to blow. Is that correct?

John Raines stated, that is correct.

Jeff VanWeelden stated, and well A. someone has to go out there and pick it up. I don’t like living in a, you know, a messy area. There is stuff around my place yes I want it picked up. Like you said you see at the landfill everyday I mean sometime Mother Nature happens and you can’t control things like that. You know I mean people can’t control coming out of the burn barrels when they set it out. You know eventually I may have something that is going to blow out at my shop and I would go out and pick that up. A fence is something you are concerned about I’m more than willing to put a fence up. I would love to put a fence around that property. The containers on that side are empty, you know we scrape them out so there is nothing in it so it doesn’t blow down the road. Something out blows out going down the road it is a $1000 liter fine. Of course it is going to hit someone’s windshield and also that or a nail comes out and goes in some ones tire, we have to buy a new tire. We get those as empty as possible when they come out of there. I’m drinking the same water from next door that other people are drinking also. I care about what the neighbors feel and everything else, I mean I try to park all of the garbage trucks inside at night. They come in empty like I said earlier. I’m more than willing to take concerns and look at them that anyone has around.

President Charles Anderson asked, do you have anymore concerns John?

John Raines stated, yes I have quite a few. One of the concerns I have right now, I’ll go to one I guess the bothers me as much as anything. I know Jeff was here a month ago and the board gave him permission to leave the containers on an A-1 property even though I’m sure that when they gave you that permission that you understood that, that was wrong to have those containers on an A-1 property.

Jeff VanWeelden stated, I left those containers on an A-1 property I could only move them over across the street across Hanawalt Rd. As we had discussed in here a month you know they would be stacked 50’ high and that would be an even worse eye sore than what it is.

John Raines stated, I understand, but my question is you did understand that at that time that should have been zoned as an I rather than an A-1 and the board was just giving you permission to leave it there until you could get back to a rezoning.

Jeff VanWeelden stated, yes, until I rezoned.

John Raines stated, but yet I went by there this weekend and the property that is directly in front of the property that you already zoned I-2 is zoned A-1, where the house sets.

Jeff VanWeelden stated, on the corner.

John Raines stated, and we’ve got containers setting on that property right now. They were setting there this weekend and I happened to take a picture on Friday of the containers and took another picture because I didn’t think that it showed exactly where they sat on Sunday and we had added more to them between Friday and Sunday. That is on an A-1 zoning. We’ve got two pieces of property that are zoned A-1. The board allowed him, gave him permission to leave that stuff on there which is understandable, but we took advantage of the A-1 property that is in front of it. I don’t think that is fair.

Jeff VanWeelden stated, where the containers are setting is to the left of the garage which is A-1 in front which is on my driveway right-of-way easement part for I-2. There was a new can added a red one I picked it up and moved when we talked a month ago. I moved about 8 containers over there so I wasn’t going back on that side of the road. I moved them over them, so if some called for a container or something, I stayed off that property and I picked them up from there. When I picked up a container when a business had moved and I set it down there. Now I believe where those container are setting is on I-2 zoned property.

John Raines stated, I don’t believe that.

President Charles Anderson asked, do you have.

John Raines stated, I’ve got some pictures here.

David Rosenbarger asked, do you know where your line is for I-2 and A-1?

Jeff VanWeelden stated, yes there is a pole right there I believe it splits right down, there is a garage and to the left.

John Raines stated, this is an aerial view of the two properties. Here is the garage setting right here the pole you are talking about.

Jeff VanWeelden stated, I thought the property ran right through.

John Raines stated, the property lines are right here, here, and here. That is according to White County GIS.

Jay Clawson stated, Charles right now the thing on the agenda is the stuff on the road and not right there, I mean that is something.

President Charles Anderson stated, do you want to go on, these were definitely on, yes but this is still on an A-1 zoning.

John Raines stated, an A-1 zoning.

Jay Clawson stated, well that is not what is on the agenda not the stuff across the road.

Jeff VanWeelden stated, I believed that the property line ran from here across, there is a pole here across that direction. I have those containers setting right there, which I thought was on the I-2 zoning property. I have them setting right there by the other side of the pole by the garage is where I do have them setting.

President Charles Anderson stated, which would be an A-1.

Jeff VanWeelden stated, I thought they were on an I-2 in the way I thought the property line ran there. According to his aerial shot they would be.

President Charles Anderson stated, they would be on the A-1.

John Raines stated, I just don’t want to see it zoned that way.

President Charles Anderson stated, okay. Do the Commissioners have any questions for anyone so far?

David Rosenbarger stated, comment has been made that it is a wetland. Has that been checked?

President Charles Anderson stated, as far as I know it is not, it is a wet area, but not an actually wetland.

Several are talking at once.

David Rosenbarger asked, what is a stoned parking lot going to do to it? Is that going to move the water elsewhere?

Jay Clawson stated, no the end that he does high does the

President Charles Anderson stated, he is going to rezone the whole property and so the water would have to go somewhere if they put stone somewhere. I think it does run north to that ditch, I think it is Wuethrich’s ground there.

Director Weaver stated, they have put gravel in. Jeff we gave them a copy of the survey for the special exception. This does show the area that he has stoned.

President Charles Anderson stated, I think we have another question out here in the audience.

Bill Pyle stated, my name is Bill Pyle and I live at 3562 East Division road. Mr. Mellon that is no longer called Hanawalt out there, it is Division road from 911. The other thing that I have to comment to you is you said that property has looked bad all of the time, well it doesn’t look any better with 35 or 40 dumpster parked illegally there. That doesn’t help that property look any better illegally parked out there.

Charles Mellon stated, well it is not farmed out there like they said. There is always a big hole on the north side there that grows up in weeds and everything.

Bill Pyle stated, well it doesn’t look any better with his dumpsters setting over there illegally. I agree with what you say that is been water.

Charles Mellon stated, that is what we are trying to do is get them there legally.

Bill Pyle stated, well we are trying not to. My property is classified as a wetland and wildlife habitat. It is a wild life water facility. I live approximately ½ mile East of that property.

Charles Mellon stated, on Hanawalt.

Bill Pyle stated on Hanawalt. I would like to discuss the creditability of this man and some of the things.

President Charles Anderson stated, we can’t get into the personality of people.

Bill Pyle stated, it is not his personality. He said that he has not been coming down Hanawalt road and he has.

President Charles Anderson stated, he admitted that he did go down Hanawalt Road.

Bill Pyle stated, he said.

President Charles Anderson stated, he said at certain times. Mainly he tries not to go down Hanawalt.

Bill Pyle stated, well he has been and he has been down there with pieces of equipment that don’t have covers on those containers. I witness him driving a lot faster then the speed limit and those are the problems that I have with him, some of them. His creditability is that he doesn’t have anything on property that he shouldn’t, well it is obvious that he is parking some of those dumpster that you haven’t gave him permit to park them on. What does that do for his creditability.

President Charles Anderson stated, we need to discuss the use of this land and what objections to what you have to what he is wanting to do. We are not going to get in to the personality.

Bill Pyle stated, my objections follow along the same lines of Don Pauken’s. There is water standing over there, I’m closer by a ½ mile then Don is and John Raines and I do have a wetland. I do have a wild life habitat in there. I’m concerned about contaminates in the air, I’m concerned about him coming down that road with containers without covers on them. What that contaminates. They may be emptied, but you know there are particles and things if they are contaminates that they are coming out of those containers.

President Charles Anderson asked, does anyone else have any questions?

Martin Barnes stated, I’m Martin Barnes and I live at 1144 Hanawalt Road. My deal is mainly with my property value. If I was to go and sell my house someone says there is a trash dump down there and I don’t want it. I don’t care trash is trash. Whether it is trucks, liter, health, or what they are going to say I don’t want that because there is a trash thing association near by. That is my biggest concerns, not only the health deals but with the unsightly, you can not make that look like a residential area. It is going to be a trash place whether you do what he says or not. Further more if one gets in the door you know it is going to expand just bigger and bigger. There we go with a bigger mess, you may not have a big land fill hill, but you are still going to have a bigger trash business. To me it is unsightly. If I knew there was a trash place going down there I would not buy a house on that road for that fact alone. The health hazards and unsightly things. That is what I have to say on that, that is why I don’t want anything to do with any trash business. I don’t care how you’ve got buildings, you put them inside or outside, it is still trash. That is my concern, mainly my investment. I have a lot of money in there and I don’t’ want to see it lost because of this. I have heard other people say they would not buy in there.

President Charles Anderson asked, does anyone have anything else to add that we have not heard. Do you want to respond to any of this?

Jeff VanWeelden stated, is not like I’m the only industrial thing out there. There is a junkyard out there.

Martin Barnes stated, I don’t even like the junkyards.

Jeff VanWeelden stated, well there is a junkyard right next door to me that you know that has more trash in it than ever could come near to me. On my premises you know there is a junkyard right next to me. I don’t know how long it has been there, I’m not the only one setting there.

Martin Barnes stated, I wouldn’t want to be next to a junkyard anymore than I would a trash place. It is still, they both are unsightly the stuff on them. It is not a good thing when someone wants to build a house or buy a house or raise their kids in a nice scenic place. I don’t want to see either one of them around that is what I’m looking at. My kids are raised and there are other kids going to be raised and I wouldn’t want them raised around that. When they step in there they are just not going to step in there for a little thing. When you step in you always make your business bigger. I haven’t seen one yet go in with a small building and stay with one building. They always keep expanding, when you expand you are going to have more problems.

President Charles Anderson stated, that is what is great about America.

Martin Barnes stated, well it is also disgusting.

President Charles Anderson asked, do any of the Commissioners have any questions about this.

Charles Mellon stated, there is a lot of wet ground up on the East on Hanawalt on both sides of the road, as far as polluting the wells on up in there. There are plenty of water holes, he can drive out there today, and you can see plenty of water up there.

Several are talking at once.

Gary Barbour asked, you are not storing any garbage, trash or anything in the containers.

Jeff VanWeelden stated, no.

Gary Barbour asked, on either properties?

Jeff VanWeelden stated, on either property. There may be some on the I-2 where I park right now. Like I said at the end of the day we try to get all trash to the landfill at the end of the day.

David Rosenbarger stated, you try.

Jeff VanWeelden stated, there is not trash in any containers or any of those 3 trucks that were parked over there prior. There are no intentions of any trash whatsoever on that side of the road or anything like that. Like I said a month ago I didn’t know I was out of zoning because I was parking stuff over there.

John Raines stated, what I want to do real quickly is state I’ve got pictures right here that show from Friday to today through Sunday evening. That shows that there were trash trucks parked there, roll offs full, containers setting there full.

President Charles Anderson asked, all day or all night?

John Raines stated, all night, all weekend, I can show you there is a picture here that shows for the best side.

President Charles Anderson asked, what side of the road was that on?

John Raines stated, on the North side of the road there is a container, over there that has something in it, I don’t know what it is. It looks like it is pallets I took it from the road. I don’t care what it is, there is something in there. The things that were left there over the weekend were parked there, they were full.

President Charles Anderson stated, today is not going to change the zoning on the south side of the road.

John Raines stated, I understand that. What you are worried about is what is on the North side of the road. I’m worried about what is going to continue what is going to happen after we get it rezoned. I don’t want to see it rezoned.

President Charles Anderson stated, we have some pictures we need to enter into the record, do you want to do that.

Attorney Altman stated, I have marked them Exhibit A and I have marked them 1,2,3,4,5 and 6. (Jerry is currently reading the petition out loud).

President Charles Anderson asked, John do you want to enter those pictures as record.

John Raines stated, I was going to, but that is okay.

President Charles Anderson asked, on the other side of the road do you have pallets in one of those containers on the North side of the road?

Jeff VanWeelden stated, on the north side of the road, I’m not aware. All of those containers, they are still stacked, They are still how I delivered them, there is no trash in any of them. I did not know about the pallets, I’m trying to think of which one it could be. There is no trash in any of them.

President Charles Anderson asked, John do you have that picture?

John Raines stated, yes I do let me find it.

Director Weaver stated, while he is looking for that, I would like to go back to what Gary was asking Mr. VanWeelden. They did rezone that property to an I-2 and they did go through a special exception for a compact to be on that property. I just wanted to clarify that with you.

Attorney Altman stated, that is not where the house is.

Director Weaver stated, no the house is now gone, but that property is zoned A1.

Jeff VanWeelden stated, that is a white container stuffed inside that yellow one. That is a 4-yard container inside a 6.

President Charles Anderson asked, do you want to enter those, do you want to pass them around. You can tell them what you saw.

John Raines stated, this is a compactor that was setting there over the weekend, I mean not a container but a roll off. This is a container that was setting in front of this one, here is the truck. Those were all there Sunday. These are the containers that are setting on the A-1 property that is in front.

President Charles Anderson asked, are they covered or uncovered?

Jeff VanWeelden stated, there isn’t anything in those.

John Raines stated, I don’t believe there is anything in there.

Bill Pyle stated, the question was are they uncovered or covered is what I heard.

Jeff VanWeelden stated, the containers that are there, yes there are lids on them.

John Raines stated, this is a picture of the stuff across the road, he said.

Several are talking at once.

Bill Pyle stated, those containers over there are they covered.

President Charles Anderson stated, we have one more and that is it.

Don Pauken stated, my point about the zoning asking about the South side. If they get the zoning and variance on the North side, what in the future from stopping them from doing the same side on the North side. This would give them a blank check to do exactly what they are doing on the South side. That is why we are against it.

Jeff VanWeelden stated, I would gladly have an amendment on there that on that North side of that property only empty containers can be set. I have no problem with that, I’m not looking to put full containers over there. I would gladly put the empty containers over there.

President Charles Anderson stated, we can have a commitment made like that, but I’m not sure that is going to satisfy some of the people in the audience.

Without further discussion the board voted.

The results of the vote were as follows: 1 affirmative and 8 negative. This will be presented to County Commissioners for their action.

President Charles Anderson stated, so now we have to deal with the fine, I mean we have containers setting on the other side. I mean we said it was removed until the out come of the zoning. We need to wait until after the Commissioners meeting on Monday.

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#865 Double J. Custom Shop Inc.; The property is located on Lots 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21 & 22 in Fourth Addition, in the Town of Wolcott on the South side of Market Street and West of Fifth Street.

Violation: They were issued a permit for a personal storage building and put offices in part of the building.

Request: They are requesting to rezone from I-1 to B-2.

President Charles Anderson asked, do we have anyone here representing this request?

Carey Jordan stated, I’m Carey Jordan.

President Charles Anderson asked, do any of the Commissioners have any questions?

What was the reason that you put an office in a storage facility?

Carey Jordan stated, well it was zoned an I-1 and I was unaware, I thought I was doing the right thing and obviously not.

President Charles Anderson asked, do we have any questions from the audience on this?

Okay so we have two things on this. One is the fine and the one is the rezoning. Does this also need a variance?

Director Weaver stated, not that I know of.

President Charles Anderson stated, if we do that from an I-1 to a B-2. The business is in the building?

Carey Jordan stated, yes.

President Charles Anderson stated, but you’ve got storage in it.

Carey Jordan stated, yes.

President Charles Anderson asked, can he have storage in an I-1 zoning?

Director Weaver stated, a self-service storage facility can go in a B-2 zoning.

President Charles Anderson stated, okay.

David Rosenbarger asked, was this an I-1 when you put the building up?

Carey Jordan stated, yes.

Director Weaver stated, yes.

Carey Jordan stated, yes and I could not figure why that was zoned an I-1 and split up into little 50’ lots. I don’t know how much industry you can put on a 50’ x 120’ lot.

Several are talking at once.

President Charles Anderson asked, did he contact you in a timely fashion after you contacted him

Director Weaver stated, yes he did.

President Charles Anderson asked, do we want to deal with the fine first?

Director Weaver stated, I would like to point something out.

President Charles Anderson stated, okay.

Director Weaver stated, I submitted to you a copy of his building permit and the fine policy, site plan, letter I sent, and pictures I took. If you notice on the bottom of the permit, the building inspector had us put a condition on this permit, that the building is for personal use only and could not be sold for business use without obtaining a construction design release. It states right there that it is for a personal storage. It did not go through for a design release, it did not go through the proper channels for a commercial building.

Carey Jordan stated, I got that design release today, so I was going to come over tomorrow and straighten that out hopefully.

President Charles Anderson asked, when was the put on? At what time?

Director Weaver stated, at the time the permit was issued in March.

President Charles Anderson stated, so it was on your paperwork that it was for a storage facility only.

Director Weaver stated, yes it was.

President Charles Anderson asked, do any of the Commissioners have any questions about the fine on this? Any recommendations on the fine?

Robert Thomas stated, I’d say if he didn’t realize it that it was that way, and they are complying with what we are asking.

David Rosenbarger stated, the signed this thing that explained it.

Several are talking at once.

Attorney Altman stated, you need to make a motion and a second and move on.

David Rosenbarger stated, where is it that Diann said it was on the permit.

President Charles Anderson stated, did the building inspector tell you about this?

Carey Jordan stated, he told me about the design release up into the project. I don’t know how long we were in to it.

President Charles Anderson asked, did he say anything about having to rezone it to do that?

Carey Jordan stated, no, that came as a complete surprise.

President Charles Anderson asked, when did you apply for the design release? After you found out that you were in violation.

Carey Jordan stated, yes.

Robert Thomas stated, my recommendation is that they didn’t know they were in violation and he came over and told them they were in violation and they tried to be in accordance with area plan since they have been told. I don’t see any reason to slap them on the hands. Now if they were resisting then I would say yes. I say we don’t.

David Scott stated, I will second it.

President Charles Anderson stated, hands all in favor of no fine. Motion carried 7 to 2. No fine.

Without further discussion the board voted.

The results of the vote were as follows: 8 affirmative and 1 negative. This will be presented to City of Wolcott for their action.

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#866 Edwin D. & Carri L. Augenstine; The property is located on 0.034 of an acre, more or less, North of Buffalo between 6670 E. Palmers Drive and 6682 E. Palmers Drive.

Violation: None.

Request: They are requesting to rezone from R-3 to B-1.

President Charles Anderson asked, do we have someone here representing this request?

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#867 Joshua M. & Heather M. Small; The property is located on 1.00 acre, more or less, North of Monticello at 5632 N. Stahl Road.

Violation: None

Request: They are requesting to rezone from A-1 to R-2.

President Charles Anderson asked, do we have anyone here representing this request?

Joshua Small stated, I’m Joshua Small.

President Charles Anderson stated, from what I see you want to put a house on the property.

Joshua Small stated, correct.

President Charles Anderson asked, do any of the Commissioners have any questions?

Don Ward asked, what are you putting on there, a duplex?

Joshua Small stated, no it is a modular.

Jay Clawson stated, single family home.

Director Weaver stated, the reason he is rezoning is because of the, this modifies the setbacks. It gives him a larger building area.

Joshua Small stated, correct.

Without further discussion the board voted.

The results of the vote were as follows: 9 affirmative and 0 negative. This will be presented to County Commissioners for their action.

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#296 James A. Sayler; Requesting primary approval of an 11 Lot subdivision to be known as Sayler Addition on 4.389 acres. The property is located in Idaville at 306 S. West Street. Tabled from the November 8, 2004 meeting.

President Charles Anderson asked, do we have anyone here representing the Saylers? I think not, so this one is tabled also.

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#300 Ralph L. & Nancy L. Walker; Requesting approval of a 2 Lot subdivision to be known as Walker Subdivision on 1.103. The property is located South of Lowe’s Bridge at 4372 E. 400 N. Tabled from the November 8, 2004 meeting.

President Charles Anderson asked, is there anyone here representing this?

Ralph Walker stated, I’m Ralph Walker.

President Charles Anderson stated, we had several requests on that. Did he fulfill all of those requests?

Director Weaver stated, I believe so. You did get a copy of the letter that I sent to him on what the board had requested. We do have a copy of his drainage approval, copy of the easement that was agreed on by the SFLECC and I believe you have a copy of the revised plat showing the rest of the information on there.

President Charles Anderson asked do the Commissioners have any questions on that?

Don Ward asked, Denny did you check the Exhibit A against the plat? I don’t think it is an accurate description of the easement.

Dennis Sterrett asked, what.

Don Ward stated, the property easement and survey.

President Charles Anderson asked, have we figured it out yet?

Dennis Sterrett asked, which one doesn’t match?

President Charles Anderson asked, didn’t we get a new description on that? I thought that was part of the problem the last time.

Director Weaver stated, we didn’t have an easement agreement the last time.

President Charles Anderson stated, it doesn’t match. Any other questions on this?

Several are talking at once.

The Primary Approval Request for a 2 lot subdivision to be known as Walker Subdivision located in South of Lowe’s Bridge, was approved by a vote of 9 to 0, based on a finding of fact that the Standards of the Subdivision Control Ordinance have been met.

President Charles Anderson stated, next would be the secondary plat. Diann did you have something on this?

Director Weaver stated, yes, I just have a question for my own benefit so I know what is going on. The sewers, are they providing the sewers as a part of the project out there or is that something that you will be responsible to get?

Ralph Walker stated, they are bringing the sewers out to the property and then we are responsible to bring the sewer into the home.

Director Weaver asked, are they bringing it out for both homes.

Ralph Walker stated, they are supposed to be doing both homes.

Director Weaver stated, secondly Jerry, on the secondary plat if I remember this right. Jerry I did not see anything on there granting that access easement that we had added on to the North side of the property. I do not see anything on there for what the purpose is.

Attorney Altman stated, tell me which one is the secondary.

President Charles Anderson asked, what are we looking for?

Director Weaver stated, I don’t see anything granting the easement the 50’.

President Charles Anderson stated, on the secondary.

Director Weaver stated, right.

President Charles Anderson stated, so it needs to be added to it.

Attorney Altman stated, the easement be a part of this plat and being dedicated. I think that is not on your secondary plat. It is on there, but it is not dedicated to the plat and the owners of the plat. So you need to have that shown on the plat.

Greg Vogel asked, can I see what you are saying?

Director Weaver stated, it is not on there for you to see.

President Charles Anderson stated, it is on there.

Attorney Altman stated, it is on there it just is not dedicated.

Greg Vogel stated, okay it is right here.

Attorney Altman stated, yes, but it is not dedicated. He has not dedicated it.

Director Weaver stated, Jim Milligan needs to add it to the plat.

President Charles Anderson stated, we can go ahead with this, but that must be put on there.

Dennis Sterrett stated, that easement is for access to lot 1.

Director Weaver stated, it is access for both lots.

Dennis Sterrett stated, we need to put that on there and on the ballot.

Attorney Altman stated, yes Denny it needs to be on the ballot.

The Secondary Approval request for a subdivision to be known as Walker Subdivision located in South of Lowe’s Bridge, was approved by a vote of 9 to 0, based on a finding of fact that the Standards of the Subdivision Control Ordinance have been met, primary approval has been granted and the Subdivision is in compliance.

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#301 Mark & Joyce Martin; Requesting primary approval of a 5 Lot subdivision to be known as The Lone Coyote on 3.002. The property is located North of Monticello on the Southeast corner of County Road 400 N. and Lake Road 26 E. Tabled from the November 8, 2004 meeting.

President Charles Anderson asked, come forward and state your name?

Mark Martin stated, I’m Mark Martin.

President Charles Anderson stated, there were some questions about lot 5. Did we get it taken care of?

Director Weaver stated, I think so. Again I did send you a copy of the letter that I sent to the Martin’s after the meeting, and I had some correspondence with Joyce Martin after the meeting also. I have sent those to you and their drainage permit.

President Charles Anderson stated, so we have gotten everything.

Director Weaver stated, the letter of dedication was my only concern because it is not on the plat. It was my understanding from the board that they wanted that on the plat. She has done a letter, so I guess I need the board to approve that, that this was the way they intended that.

President Charles Anderson asked, does the board want to accept the letter of dedication instead of putting it on the plat? Any Commissioners have any questions about that?

Joyce Martin stated, excuse me. You are talking about the letter of dedication, are you talking about the letter that I wrote to Diann with the issue about lot 5 about whether or not. When we talked about it last month I had said that they don’t want that to be added on to their property, they want that a separate lot.

President Charles Anderson stated, it is a separate lot.

Joyce Martin stated, as I understood our conversation last month, was that lot would be treated as any lot. That they could do what ever they want to it, so as long as it is in line with the ordinance, zoning or what have you. Diann’s letter to me said that we had to put on the subdivision that they could not build a home on that lot. My question is why not and why should that be a part of the subdivision? That should be a part of what they are allowed to do by law and go through the Area Plan and issue a permit. That shouldn’t be a subdivision issue at all.

President Charles Anderson asked, what does the letter say?

Joyce Martin stated, as far as saying that is our intent to sell it to them that is fine. Now what happens if they decide they don’t want it you know.

Jay Clawson stated, the idea you lead us to believe was they were going to buy lot 5 so they could have that little 20’ thing that goes to the road, plus that behind them. Well if you are not planning on doing that then I don’t like the looks of this little 25’ piece being there because if they sell that somebody will think we can put a road out to the highway out to the main road.

If you are not going to sell that as a separate lot, I would like to see that little figure be lost.

Joyce Martin stated, we are intending to do that. Didn’t we say they could not access 400? Was that not part of last months stipulation? Was that not put in there somewhere that one of the issues was that they couldn’t?

Jay Clawson stated, it is there, with that being there somebody would say I own that property, it was assumed, is someone going to mow that little part. Who is going to take care of that little strip here in the middle? It is kind of an abstract thing that we never see on subdivisions. It is not really a regular lot when you add something like that. When you said that they were buying that and they were going to add that to theirs and have it whether or not you want to sell it off to those people.

Joyce Martin stated, we fully intend to do so.

Jay Clawson asked, how do you feel Jerry?

Attorney Altman stated, I don’t want that 22.9’ on there if it isn’t a part of that lot.

Jay Clawson stated, right.

Attorney Altman stated, it is an un-proper drafting of a subdivision.

Joyce Martin asked, in what respect?

Attorney Altman stated, it is 22.9’ that looks silly and there is no access off of.

Mark Martin stated, when we were talking about the 2.5 road whether it was actually a road or wasn’t, if you look at the lay out there it is set up with a 50’ setback. I think there is 40’ already there. The question is, is it a road? It is a platted road and why could it access out at 2.5.

Jay Clawson stated, that is not a problem with that, I would just like to see the 25’ piece being incorporated with one of the frontage lots instead of that being stuck. Why is that little piece being…

Joyce Martin stated, the reason that is being like that is for two reasons. First it squared that off and second they are already using that. That is just a neighborly gesture. They are already on it, so we will just sell it to them. Do you understand what I’m saying?

David Rosenbarger stated, the problem is if you don’t sell it to them, that.

Joyce Martin stated, well we have an accepted purchase agreement and we have a down payment on it.

Jay Clawson stated, it doesn’t matter.

Joyce Martin stated, but if we go to them and say you can’t build a house on this other part of it, maybe they will feel different. When we originally intended to sell it to them, we didn’t think that they had that interest, but it is not up to us to go to them and say okay we will sell you this lot, but you can’t build a home on that lot. I don’t think that is up to us to tell them that they can’t do that. Do you see my point?

Attorney Altman stated, it is up to the Board to tell you that you can’t use it. That is what the board said.

Joyce Martin stated, why? I need an ordinance, I need a reason.

Attorney Altman stated, because.

Joyce Martin stated, not just because.

Attorney Altman stated, the 22’ being.

President Charles Anderson asked, why is that not a lot? Why does that make that an improper lot?

Joyce Martin stated, that is what I want to know, I want to know why.

Attorney Altman stated, because people will use that as an ingress/egress lot.

Joyce Martin stated, you are anticipating something that may or may not happen.

Several are talking at once.

Attorney Altman stated, one person talking at a time.

Joyce Martin stated, fix it then if that is how you are going to do it.

President Charles Anderson stated, I understand what everyone is saying, but the way that lot is constructed you can build a lot anyway you want. That is not an improper lot.

Attorney Altman stated, yes it would be.

President Charles Anderson asked, why is it improper?

Attorney Altman stated, it would be because of the potential of abuse in the future. That is what people do.

Joyce Martin stated, people can abuse anything in the future, I mean you know.

Attorney Altman stated, if you take it away they will not abuse it.

Joyce Martin stated, okay then what is the suggestion?

President Charles Anderson stated, if you are going to give it to them anyway you can square off that lot and give them that 22’ piece and add it to their other piece of property and not have it.

Jay Clawson stated, and not have that as a part of lot 5.

President Charles stated, just as a piece of property.

Joyce Martin stated, then you are talking about.

President Charles Anderson stated, just square it up. Just run that line over.

Joyce Martin stated, are you talking about creating another lot or are you talking about peeling that off.

President Charles Anderson stated, that would not be a part of the subdivision. You would sell that to them separate. I don’t see where that is going to make any difference at all. If they are going to use it they are going to use it.

Joyce Martin stated, they are going to have it anyway.

Jay Clawson stated, if it belongs to the front lot, then it wouldn’t belong to the lot behind. If they sell lot 5 the house that is in front, I don’t know if the people would want a road running beside their house. There is a road to the front.

President Charles Anderson stated, if that is a part of the subdivision they couldn’t have a road there anyway. They would have a 50’ right-of-way.

Don Ward stated, they could put a lane there.

Attorney Altman stated, if you take that 22’ under the adjoining landowner and take it out of the subdivision it will not happen. Lot 5 will never own it.

President Charles Anderson stated, then there could be a road there.

Attorney Altman stated, then they are not doing it as a part of the subdivision.

Mark Martin stated, the neighbor across the road at 2.5, which is right across from it, was here at the last meeting. She expressed that she didn’t want to see a driveway put in. What she considers her property her property abuts our property on that side. They own the road, that is interesting but what we were talking about is that is still a road. Whether it is a private road, this gets gray here for me I’m not sure how this goes. It is still an open road, it’s a road and going out there and looking at it now they have actually, their trash barrels are right there on the edge of the property line. At one point and time they put gravel in so they could pull in there and turn around on the property that we own. The property in the past was owned by people from Hammond or whatever, from up North, it wasn’t maintained. It was just left to go wild. The Whitakers are what really started talking about the 22’, they started mowing further than their yard so that they could keep the brush down. They had ticks, fleas, on their dogs and everything. They basically just started maintaining more than their own yard so they could keep the wilderness away from it. That is really why they expressed interest of wanting to maintain some of that what they call their side yard. They’ve been mowing it, they’ve got a grape harbor planted basically right on the property line. If you go out and look at it the hill is extremely steep anyway. You would have to go in and remove yard after yard of dirt to ever think about putting a driveway in there. Going back and looking at it about what was discussed about putting a restriction on the lot saying that they couldn’t build on the lot because they couldn’t access 400. Couldn’t you just put a restriction on there saying that you can’t access 400?

Don Ward stated, that is already on there.

David Rosenbarger stated, it is already on there.

Mark Martin stated, well that it what I’m saying.

Attorney Altman stated, the problem is it will be abused and somebody will not watch it close enough and it will be an access for lot 5.

Jay Clawson stated, the thing is if that person has encroached all the way up to the little 20’ lot already, someone in the back buys that lot, they own that little 22’ space, they can come back to that person. It is something that is really irregular when we, when you asked for it. We figured since if the person was buying lot 5 and incorporated it into one big lot with their property. That wouldn’t be too hard to take because it was all one property. The way it seems now, if those people want that property, just draw your line back to where it intersects with lot 3. Just kind of sell that 20’ piece to them some how as a part of the lot or get that off of the property when they buy that lot 5 behind you and not show it as a part of the subdivision. That way if they sell off lot 5 to somebody that is not around this area they won’t think they own that. They won’t own that.

Joyce Martin stated, then we have another procedure to go through. Then we have to sell off that piece and then we have to start all over from scratch with the subdivision because the acreage, the land is not the same as it was when we began the procedure. You will have to excuse me, I’ve got a cold.

Attorney Altman stated, I don’t think so all you have to do is amend the plat. That 22’ would become a part of Whitaker’s property.

Joyce Martin stated, but what I’m saying is when we go to do our subdivision we are not subdividing this parcel anymore. We are subdividing a new parcel that exists once we peel this off.

Attorney Altman stated, that will be no problem.

Joyce Martin stated, I’m talking about time restraints. How long is this going to take?

Attorney Altman stated, there is no time restraint, you get your subdivision plat.

Mark Martin stated, am I doing this right because basically you are saying…

President Charles Anderson asked, are we doing both primary and secondary tonight?

Director Weaver stated, no not tonight.

President Charles Anderson stated, okay we are just doing primary. All we have to do is say yes you will take that piece off of there okay and either sell it to them, give it to them, what ever you want to do to it or give it to lot 2. That way they can not access it as a road. If you put a house back there how would you access it then.

Joyce Martin stated, well Whitakers live right there.

Several are talking at once.

President Charles Anderson stated, I thought you said they weren’t going to use that. Is that the road they said they were not going to use?

Jay Clawson stated, no it is a 25’ lane they are wanting to use as a road.

Attorney Altman stated, they are increasing it and that is an excellent move and a real appropriate move from a developer to do and this just makes for a cleaner subdivision.

Joyce Martin stated, so you are just basically saying take lot 2 and move it all the way over and go with that. Which means we have to make a new agreement with the Whitakers.

Attorney Altman stated, or you can transfer it to the Whitakers and leave lot 2 where it is.

Several are talking at once.

Jay Clawson stated, you can have this part here, I mean if you are selling them lot 5 that would be better for them if one of their kids want to buy lot 5 they still gain the 25’ that they have always wanted.

Attorney Altman stated, so on your secondary you decide which way you want to do it and bring it back.

Joyce Martin asked, we don’t have to come back for a primary?

President Charles Anderson stated, you just have to come back for a secondary.

Joyce Martin stated, we will work that out. Do I have to come in to fill out another application?

Mark Martin stated, that is an easy fix for us.

Jay Clawson stated, it won’t slow you down at all.

Mark Martin stated, no, no I’m just saying what was on there what you had in the letter before putting the restriction on there that they couldn’t build on it.

Joyce Martin stated, this totally threw me because last month there was nothing about this.

Attorney Altman stated, there was a lot of discussion about lot 5.

Jay Clawson stated, they had the one gal in talking about…

Several are talking at once.

Mark Martin asked, have you been out there? That is a natural swale I mean that lot is pretty flat except for the part that is all along there and then it just tapers off. Everything from there to the lake is down hill. The biggest problem with her is she has a paved drive going into her garage that’s gotta have a 3’ slope in 45’ so if she has water really it is not coming because of anything on that lot. It is on her own road. I mean she is a really nice lady but you know part of this has been going on because I went in and started clearing off the trees and taking them down and in with a back hoe and started leveling the lot off just because you couldn’t mow the thing to get around any of the stuff.

Attorney Altman stated, I think we are ready to vote. The conditions are that you take the 22.9’ and add it either to lot 2 or that they make an agreement with the Whitakers and sell it to them.

President Charles Anderson stated, but take it clear out of the subdivision.

The Primary Approval Request for a 5 lot subdivision to be known as The Lone Coyote located in N of Monticello on the Southeast corner of County Rd 400 N. and Lake Rd. 26 E, was approved by a vote of 9 to 0, based on a finding of fact that the Standards of the Subdivision Control Ordinance have been met.

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President Charles Anderson stated, if anyone wants to leave you can, we now have business on the agenda.

Tom Spackman stated, this deals with the widening of West Shafer. One of the things we had the appraiser out on how much property they were going to need as far as the extension of the road. It ends up that it is going to come right down our western drive of our parking lot. Right down the center of , which means that every sign we have on the road including the direction signs are going to have to be moved. Now those signs have been there for a number of years. The issues we are going to get into is are those grandfathered, are we limited to replacing all of them with one sign or are we allowed a sign per lot. What do we do about the directional signs? Can we get the county highway department to take care of those. The same thing applies as you come down the South lot, we’ve got two major signs there. Then the convention center sign is going to have to be moved also. The roadway will take up half of that parking lot in front of the convention center. Those are just some of the issues that are on the table as far as the new road is concern.

President Charles Anderson stated, as far as your signs, the ones you have there now, are you wanting going to rebuild those.

Tom Spackman stated, the intent is to move them.

President Charles Anderson stated, just to move them.

Tom Spackman stated, we would have to move them to the East, we’ve got to relocate the road and shorten the parking lot because of the right-of-way issues. There is also a setback issue too, are we going to have to adhere to that, which moves the signs farther from the road.

Director Weaver stated, I originally put this on the agenda not just regarding Mr. Spackman’s signs, but all of the signs on the 6th Street project. Whether there going to have to meet the current regulations to relocate these signs, if they are going to have to have permits for these signs, and how the board wants to handle this, not just for Mr. Spackman, but for all the business that have signs along there.

President Charles Anderson stated, these are signs that are already there, I don’t know why we would have to cash in on other then trying to regulate.

Director Weaver stated, that is kind of my opinion. The ordinance states that there needs to be permits issued, I wanted direction from the board on how the board wants to.

President Charles Anderson stated, I would say we would have to permit them, but as far as having to charge them, I wouldn’t think if we are going to force them to move their signs, I don’t know if, we would have to charge them.

Director Weaver stated, the fees don’t fall under our jurisdiction anymore, that is under the Building Department.

Jay Clawson stated, if they’re an on premises sign, if they are on lots that are owned by the Beach right, everything there is on your property, right.

Tom Spackman stated, correct.

Director Weaver stated, well his are, but I’m not just talking about Mr. Spackman’s, I put this o the agenda for my benefit.

Jay Clawson stated, on premises signs that is already there should be grandfathered in, it is the same sign it is just going to be moved to the proper setback on the same lot. That should be grandfathered. Now there are some signs that are off premises signs that probably need to be looked at a little tougher because there are some that are modern signs and some that are just stuck out on 6th Street if you look never have never been permitted. There are some telephone pole signs that have evolved over the years, those need to go through some kind of plan. If it is something that is advertising a business that is already on that lot, it should be allowed to just move the sign. If they are going to move it and make it a bigger sign, then something needs to be done. If they are taking the same sign that they are using and just moving it back,

President Charles Anderson stated, or if it was in such disrepair to put one back at the same size.

Jay Clawson stated, right, but if they are going to quadruple the size of the sign then something needs to be look at with that.

David Rosenbarger asked, you are going to make them adhere to the setbacks? Since it is not their fault.

President Charles Anderson stated, no he is saying the setbacks are grandfathered in so they will be the same.

Don Ward asked, do we have a distance that they are to be from the property line?

Director Weaver stated, yes, now they are required from the leading edge to be 10’ from the road right-of-way.

President Charles Anderson stated, which isn’t that bad now.

Don Ward stated, the leading edge.

Tom Spackman stated, well in this case keep in mind.

Don Ward asked, is that in our stuff?

Attorney Altman stated, yes.

Tom Spackman asked, how does that apply with the sidewalk that is also apart of the project? The bike path.

President Charles Anderson stated, they will be on the right-of-way. The right-of-way is how many feet?

Director Weaver stated, I don’t have any plans for this project, I don’t know.

President Charles Anderson asked, do we have any comments from the Commissioners?

Tom Spackman stated, I thought the engineer was going to be here tonight.

Director Weaver stated, well the appraiser who contacted me was planning on being here, but evidently something came up and he wasn’t able to come.

Tom Spackman stated, okay.

Jay Clawson stated, they shouldn’t be able to encroach that walking path, but I don’t think, I mean the road, the reason they wanted the 10’ is cars wrecking, visibility for the, or a car going off the side of the road hitting a sign. We just need to look when they get a plan or what how wide the path is to what we can do. I wouldn’t say it would have to be another 10’ on the other side.

Don Ward stated, you would have to have a variance for that.

Attorney Altman stated, I think you ought to have a variance for that.

Director Weaver stated, do we need to set a policy on this?

Attorney Altman stated, that is the BZA to set that kind of policy.

Director Weaver stated, I’m talking about the relocating.

Several are talking at once.

Director Weaver stated, a lot of these off premises signs are not going to be able to meet our current regulations.

Don Ward stated, it is a right-of-way consideration. If the sign is on your property it is your sign. When county buys the property off of you, they in affect have to pay you for moving the sign or changing the sign.

Tom Spackman stated, we will probably end up donating the property because of the roadway.

Director Weaver stated, the appraiser who is doing the appraisals on the properties has come to us and he is looking for an answer from us also so he knows how to appraise these properties. He’s got to take in to consideration if these signs are going to be put back and how they are going to be handled.

John Heimlich stated, any damage to the landowner is going to be adding to the cost of it.

Don Ward stated, if you donate it would just add to your tax write off. It will still cost you money.

John Heimlich stated, yes in that case it would still cost him money. It also can be used by the county for the local match. Certainly there are going to be some that aren’t going to donate and are going to have to be paid damages. I think what we can do to streamline this process certainly benefits everybody.

Don Ward stated, we need a policy.

Director Weaver stated, that is kind of what I thought.

Don Ward stated, if we had a policy then we could follow that.

Jay Clawson stated, we have someone that is already looking at that. How far are we with HNTB have they done something.

John Heimlich stated, I’m going to talk about that in a few minutes.

Jay Clawson stated, okay, but if they have done one for another city that they’ve already done a policy like that for if we could have some kind of pre, see what their criteria was we can act on it. If they have some kind of guide line, we could go by it.

Several are talking at once.

President Charles Anderson stated, so we would have to get with both bodies.

Jay Clawson stated, yes, see what they have and then we would have to work something out with both boards to work something out.

Attorney Altman stated, I think getting input from them would be very valuable to come to both boards with a policy.

Gary Barbour stated, as long as it is something simple.

President Charles Anderson asked, what is your closest sign to the right-of-way as it is right now?

Tom Spackman stated, it would be 10’ off the roadway.

President Charles Anderson asked, off the roadway or the right-of-way?

Tom Spackman stated, probably off of the roadway.

President Charles Anderson stated, which would probably be in the right-of-way.

Tom Spackman stated, one of the reasons they are so close is when we did the intersection out there with the new stop light and donated all of that land to the county.

David Rosenbarger stated, you didn’t move the signs.

Tom Spackman stated, we didn’t move the signs we just gave the county more land to widen the road.

Don Ward stated, I don’t think that when federal money is involved that they are going to let you encroach on that right-of-way. Period. They will never let a sign hang over that.

President Charles Anderson stated, it would have to be 10’ from the right-of-way.

Don Ward stated, it will be on the plans and they will not allow any signs in the right-of-way.

Attorney Altman stated, you better do it as built.

John Heimlich asked, are you talking from the actual roadway or from the...

Don Ward stated, the right-of-way. The pedestrian path will be in the right-of-way, so it will be from the right-of-way line.

John Heimlich stated, you aren’t going to have a sign on the path anyway.

Don Ward stated, I realize that, but they have been very strict about that in the past.

Attorney Altman stated, since they are talking about that, surely the policy will incorporate that.

Several are talking at this time.

President Charles Anderson asked, Mr. Heimlich do you have anything for us?

John Heimlich stated, most of you are aware the County Commissioners have signed a contract with HNTB. I meet with Cynthia Bowen a couple of weeks ago to discuss a timetable for their work. Which will begin, well I guess it already has begun some of the background details. In effect it will begin next month. She has, there will be a one-day meeting sometime in January that will involve her and I don’t know there may be others from HNTB as well. Meeting with members of the plan commission, BZA, and the County Commissioners during that day. Also meeting on that day is the attorney and the Area Plan staff to discuss issues. Then that evening or late afternoon a meeting with the steering committee and the Commissioners still have to appoint a steering committee, which will include members from the Area Plan and the BZA Boards. As well as representatives from the City of Monticello, each of the towns within the County and probably in the case of Buffalo and Idaville probably from their Township Board so each community is represented on the steering committee. Also at least a couple of developers and their could be some others from Farm Bureau, anyone from a group that might be interested in the issues that are going to be discussed. I guess one question I said I would approach with you is if you had a preference for when that meeting was in January. One thing she had discussed was it could coincide with your regular Area Plan meeting. If it is anything like tonight's meeting maybe that wouldn’t be such a good idea. What are your. It doesn’t make any difference that was just one thing that she had asked.

Attorney Altman stated, I would love to do it one night, but I think given, I mean this isn’t the first time in a long way that we have had a meeting at this time. I think we probably maybe just bite the bullet and do separate days.

President Charles Anderson stated, you are going to want both BZA people there.

John Heimlich stated, she will want to meet with both boards and.

Attorney Altman stated, I say pick a date, I hate to say it, but it will always conflict with something.

John Heimlich asked, is a meeting during the day going to be?

President Charles Anderson stated, it would be for a lot people in business.

John Heimlich stated, that is what I wondered.

Several are talking at once.

Attorney Altman stated, I would do it anytime you wanted.

John Heimlich stated, okay we will try to get this set up here in the next two weeks.

Several are talking at once.

John Heimlich stated, she wants to talk to the staff and she would want Dave included in that as well. Probably during the morning and then sometime in the afternoon she could meet with the BZA and APC boards. Then she has got from there February is a community meeting scheduled and we will have to work out the details of that and where that is going to be. I had suggested to her a couple of community meetings at least fairly earlier. How many of you were at the meeting when we interviewed. There were several of you there and we discussed that Wolcott corridor over there. The possibility of doing something with that. She had done something like that in Frankfort. Between 65 and Frankfort, which kind of looked like the same thing we are talking about an overlay district. Even is if that doesn’t develop immediately you’ve got some kind of plan in place and some restrictions of what is done in that area so when development does occur it develops the way we want it to develop and not get into trouble. It just seemed to me at this time that was certainly worth looking at. I had told her that I would like one of those community meetings at least over at Wolcott so we could get as much input from people over there as much as possible. I won’t go into the whole timetable because after the first 3 months it will probably be all revised anyway. She said if everything went according to schedule by next January we could adopt the new ordinance, but it could take another 4 to 6 months if things don’t go to plan. If you have any questions I will try by the end of the year get a date set, so you can plan for that. I’d like probably 3 or 4 members of this board to be on the steering committee.

I will probably be talking to some of you in the next few weeks. I don’t know about you, but I’m kind of excited about it, it is going to be a long process. The steering committee will meet every month and have a lot of paperwork. She will be sending drafts to the steering committee to look over and send comments back. There is going to be quite a bit of work involved in this. That is all I have. Thank you.

President Charles Anderson stated, next on the agenda would be the amendments. Do you want to do the White County Area Plan vs. Kevin Reynolds.

Director Weaver stated, I’ve got the amendments where we were going to discuss the definition for a front yard. Did any of you look those over? I also sent to you information that Greg Bossaer had gotten for us concerning the plat committee.

Don Ward asked, is this from Newton County?

Director Weaver stated, I believe it is Newton and Jasper County.

Attorney Altman stated, I think the one on the front yard or front line should be addressed. You really need for you to look at that and make sure we are doing what you want done. It was something that was involved in litigation and quite frankly it will still be involved. We need that changed. Is what we prepared look right, so we can proceed or do you want another month to look at it?

David Rosenbarger stated, my question is the way you’ve got it is, in the case of Brookston we have several lots with 3 front yards. What is the fourth line? Is it a side or a rear?

Director Weaver stated, currently we treat it like a side. It is not in the ordinance. You do have a good point there. It is not in the ordinance how it should be treated.

Attorney Altman stated, in answer to that do you want that added to this.

David Rosenbarger stated, if we are going to define it the best that we can then we need to.

Don Ward stated, you better cover all 4 sides.

Attorney Altman stated, I don’t have any trouble with that, that is why we want your input so that we get it done. Does anyone else have any suggestions on this proposal? If you do let Diann know immediately.

Dennis Sterrett stated, the side lot line or any boundary that is not a front or a rear.

Attorney Altman stated, that is what Diann is going to, that is where Diann has gone to.

Director Weaver stated, the plat committee you will probably want to discuss this when Greg is here. The only other thing that I have is I guess for Jerry, Meadowbrook Subdivision and Kevin Reynolds.

Attorney Altman stated, the Meadowbrook Subdivision the best I can say right now is I’m preparing a settlement that will effectively vacant the subdivision and leave the one lot in the hands or possession with the one that was sold. They’ve got to have and in and an out and they have been using the street as ingress and egress. The present owner are satisfied with that and the bank is satisfied with that and I think it is with getting rid of the drafting details we should have a settlement.

President Charles Anderson stated, the road is already there.

Attorney Altman stated, yes, just to the lot, not any further in. That is why we are stopping there. Anybody got any questions about it. What else?

Director Weaver stated, Kevin Reynolds.

Attorney Altman stated, that has been set for a pretrial. Judge didn’t want to hear us until December 20 and as soon as that date comes I will file.

****

The meeting adjourned.

Respectfully submitted,

Donald W. Ward, Secretary

White County Area Plan Commission

Diann Weaver, Director

White County Area Plan Commission