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The White County Area Plan Commission met Monday, April 11, 2005, at 7:30 p.m. in the Commissioners’ Meeting Room, Second Floor, County Building, Monticello, Indiana.

Members attending were: Jay Clawson, Gary Barbour, David Scott, Charles Mellon, Robert Thomas, Gregory Bossaer, and Dennis Sterrett. Also attending were Attorney Altman and Director Weaver.

Visitors Attending were: Larry R. Noe, John R. Noe, Frances Curbox, Ruth Williams, Leae Williams, Don Williams, Essy Williams, Herb Parrish, Jim Farley, Tammy Chiafos, Bill Pyle, Robert Kinser, Don Pauken, Barbara Harris, Tom Parsley, Dan Johns, Cathy Johns, Terri Raines, Georgia Day, Terry Beasy, Shelly Beasy, Brenda Parsley, Susan Case, Greg Stigers, John Raines, Floyd L. England, Myron Barnes, Sue Smith, James C. Smith, William S. Gatewood, Stan Hockema, ?, Kathy Cade, Charles Clifford, JoEllen Kelley, Bob Musall. Attending but not signed in Philip Chiafos.

The meeting was called to order by Vice-President Jay Clawson and roll call was taken. Greg Bossaer made a motion to dispense with reading and approve the minutes of the March 14, 2005 meeting. Motion was seconded by Charles Mellon and carried unanimously.


#873 Rangeline Properties, Inc, Owner; Jeff VanWeelden, Applicant; The property is located on Lot 1 in Korpita’s Corner Subdivision West of Monticello at 19 S. 300 E. Tabled from the February 14, 2005 meeting.

Violation: None

Request: They are requesting to rezone from A-1 to I-2.

Vice President Jay Clawson stated, I will let you go first, you can explain this.


Jeff VanWeelden stated, Jeff VanWeelden from Rangeline Properties. I’m trying to change the zoning where I took an old house down and trying to get it zoned I-2, which is the same, the same that connects to my other property. It borders another I-2 piece of property and two roads.


Vice President Jay Clawson stated, I think they were interested in this piece of property just mostly you want to use it for.



Jeff VanWeelden stated, parking I just want to get it into compliance as my other piece. If I park on one side of the line I’m not in violation as to parking on the other side. I want to grass it and make it a part of the whole property. To be a part of my property it has to be an I-2.


Vice President Jay Clawson asked, what type of gravel parking.


Jeff VanWeelden stated, gravel where the house was, covering that with dirt and seeding that. I already have gravel to where the garage is existing now.


Vice President Jay Clawson asked, do we have any more questions from the audience about this request?


Attorney Altman stated, before we do that, I want to follow up here to just get a little firmer idea of exactly what you are proposing in the way of the use of this real estate. You say parking, tell us what you want to park there?


Jeff VanWeelden stated, right now we park right in front of the building and you know employees and stuff park to the right, if I was going to you know keep the problem the last time I was here was I 4 or 5 containers lined up that were ready to go, so when we needed a container to pick it up and go. They are on one side of the line, so I wanted to get it changed over to I-2 so if I have 5 containers lined up there or something ready to go that it is not in violation.


Attorney Altman asked, so you will be parking vehicles?


Jeff VanWeelden stated, yes, vehicles.


Attorney Altman stated, trucks, cars that sort of thing or clean containers that would be going out or just setting there.


Jeff VanWeelden stated, right, staged there, ready to go.


Attorney Altman stated, you are not asking for any other use, no buildings, no…


Jeff VanWeelden stated, no buildings, nothing, just trying to get it in compliance with the same property that butts right up to it, the whole property.


Attorney Altman stated, I just wanted everybody…


Jeff VanWeelden stated, no buildings, only thing there is a garage.


Attorney Altman stated, so you would be willing to make a commitment that the only use would use of this property assuming it gets rezoned would be for parking of vehicles, empty clean containers on it.


Jeff VanWeelden stated, vehicles, clean containers, yes sir, same thing across the room.


Attorney Altman stated, the access would only be off of Hanawalt road.


Jeff VanWeelden stated, actually there is a drive that goes to 300.


Attorney Altman stated, I understand, but…


Jeff VanWeelden stated, I might use that as a through yes because I may use that, I’m not saying I’m not going to use that as a through, but I may use that.


Attorney Altman stated, I just want to understand what your use is, would you be willing to restrict your use of I-2 by making a commitment that it would only be parking of employees cars, and storage of clean empty containers.


Jeff VanWeelden stated, empty containers, yes no problem.


Attorney Altman stated, I just want to make sure that we all have that down before we begin talking. Thank you very much.


Vice President Jay Clawson stated, if we have any, this is on the property on lot 1, not the 4 or 5 acres across the road, so if we have any objections to this property they can be heard now.


Tammy Chiafos stated, good evening I’m Tammy Chiafos, I live at 3273 E. Division Road. I’m the mother of 3 and I’m also a teacher’s aide at Roosevelt Middle School.


Attorney Altman stated, could you locate on the map where you live that we have in front of us.


Tammy Chiafos stated, sure, I live 200 yards from Rangeline Properties on the North side.


Attorney Altman asked, on the East side.


Tammy Chiafos stated, no the North side.


(Currently going over the map with the board.)


Tammy Chiafos stated, if you are looking at names it is Chiafos. I live about 200 yards, that is my estimation from Rangeline Properties and when I walk out the front door and I look to the West I see dumpsters and I see trash trucks and I see the big red what use to be the Rent One containers. Quite frankly it is an eye soar. I’m against rezoning lot 1 because of the following reasons. I said I have 3 kids, my kids like to ride their bicycles on the road in front of the home. They like to ride their bikes into town to see their friends, I feel like there is a big issue with driving safety on Hanawalt and Division Road. It is the same road. I went out and measured my road last night and it is exactly 17’ across right in front of my house. I measured my vehicle from mirror to mirror, it is 8’ across. My trash truck driver has the same size trash trucks as Rangeline Properties. I asked for an estimation of the width of a trash truck, 10’, that is 18’ worth of vehicle on a 17’ road. I think that is a big problem. I’ve seen tire tracks in the ditches where cars have had to go off the road. I have been about run off the road by larger vehicles. I have seen people go off in the ditches. The school comes up and they pull up in front of my house and I live sort of on a hill and it is really hard to see there. I think that is a safety issue. There are more potholes on this road in this last year since traffic has increased than there has ever been the 4 years I have lived there. The road is breaking down, crumbling up, there is an increase in traffic. I mainly noticing dumpster hauling trucks, trash trucks, and smaller trucks that have the sides up that haul trash. The place that I see them go in is Rangeline Properties. I know there are times when I have been coming to my house and if anyone has been down Hanawalt road I’m the second house from the end on the right hand side. You have to go up a little hill, I’m on the little hill. Most of the time I’m coming up that hill, the people coming towards me are in the center of the road and no one cares that there is a speed limit on that road. I’m not specifically naming anybody, I’m just talking in general. I go to bed sometimes at 10:00, sometimes 11:00 at night, I went to bed at 11:00 about a week or two ago and I have a huge 5’ x 6’ window that faces directly to the West and I can see Rangeline Properties out that window. I noticed a trash truck setting right on the edge of the road with all of the lights on and the lights at the top of the truck blinking. I got up at 6:00 a.m. and that exactly same truck was still setting there with the lights blinking. A neighbor down the road from my house said they drove by to go to work, rolled down the window and the truck was running. That is a problem for me, because I know for a fact that there are kids in this county that have stolen vehicles that have been running or had keys left in it. They have trashed 5 vehicles. Who’s to say that they are not going to trash that in my yard, in my house, in my pond. No body can say they know that will not happen or that an animal might jump in hit a stick shift and it might roll out and cause another accident. Another thing is when it rains. It rains and it pours in this county and everybody knows that front the last few years. Rangeline Properties has a ditch that runs into and I don’t know his last name, but his name is Mel and every body knows Mel’s Wrecker. That water puddles in his entire yard comes down the road goes across the road and drains off into my yard because I have a low yard. It drains down the valley in my yards and into my pond. I’ve got muskrat, fish and I have deer that come and swim in that pond geese, two dogs, cat, my neighbors have cats, and I have kids that swim in that pond. Just from working at the school we just learned about chemical run off from the roads and fields, and from trash dumpster. You can empty a trash dumpster but there is no guarantee that there is not going to be chemicals in that trash dumpster. My worry is that my animals, kids and the wild life are going to get poisoned if the run off occurs again. The property value of my home, like I said I bought my home 4 years ago this July. My home appraised for $95,000 and my husband I have put in a lot of work in our home and it now appraises for $185,000. If I go to sell my home and there is a dump down the road from my house there goes my retirement because no one wants to live next to a trash dump. If you guys did all of that work on your home and you knew that someday you wanted to retire maybe buy an RV and travel around the world like my husband has his little aspirations, you don’t want to loose the equity of your home that you did all the work in because someone decided they wanted to put a trash dump down the road from your house. It wasn’t there when we moved in and I don’t want it there now. Rangeline Properties is there now, Rent One containers was there, it was just a dumpster place and they kept it nice and clean and they did not have a transfer station there and they are proposing to do what is being proposed to you guys. I also have a concern that if in fact it is turned into a dump, critters are going to come over and they are going to go hog wild in that area. I do not like rats, and I’m sure none of you like rats. I don’t like coyotes, I don’t like anything, but where there is trash there is animals. I have a Great Dane that I just paid $750 vet bill because it was attacked by coyotes when it was running in a field. I don’t want to have to pay that vet bill again because now that coyotes are coming closer to my home.


Vice President Jay Clawson stated, some of these things are getting away from what we are talking about here.


Tammy Chiafos stated, okay I’m sorry. Well my big concern is the road traffic, and the trash. Trash seems to be falling out and I don’t know if it is falling out from the trash trucks. There didn’t use to be the trash on the roads and in the fields and my yard like there is now. If you guys approve lot 1 for this rezoning that means that White County and the surrounding counties as well as private individuals can come and use this transfer station. I do not want everybody hauling their trash down our road because people don’t care if it falls out as long as it is not falling out in their yard. I don’t want this next to my property. I hope you, if you think about your kids, your family, and the value of your home and your serenity that you will take into heart where I’m pleading that you will please not rezone this lot. Thank you.


Vice President Jay Clawson asked, anybody else?


Don Pauken stated, I’m Don Pauken. I reside at 1186 Hanawalt. Initially I would like to submit this 80 some signatures on this petition that opposes the expansion of the transfer station and the storage of any business equipment relevant to the operation to this type of business as proposed by Rangeline Properties. Also I know.


Attorney Altman stated, they will be admitted as Objectors Exhibit 1.


Don Pauken stated, if Diann would be so kind as to include as part of the objections at least 3 letters that I know of opposing this particular rezoning.


Director Weaver stated, they were sent with the file, and I believe the board has copies of those letters.


Don Pauken stated, they were for both and one.


Vice President Jay Clawson asked, on this map where do you live, you live down by the jail pretty much don’t you.


Don Pauken stated, well half a mile about in the middle here. (Showing them on the map where he lives.)


Several are talking at once.


Don Pauken stated, I’m about a mile and half from the property, Rangeline Properties. We heard Jeff talking about the purpose of having this rezoned. I would like to have, I’ve got a drawing number 3 of the permit, which was included in the permit application to IDEM for the transfer station and this particular drawing was done in January of 2004 of last year.


Vice President Jay Clawson asked, do you want to present that? He can put that in the record. You are going to use it as testimony it needs to be put to the record.


Attorney Altman stated, that would be Exhibit B.


Don Pauken stated, I would like to ask Jeff to explain first of all, let me give you the title of this thing. It is a proposed facility and traffic flow diagram for the transfer station. I would like him to explain to me the traffic flow pattern.


Jeff VanWeelden stated, the traffic flow pattern comes straight out here and straight out. I did not own this at the date that he has. I did not own this at this time. I did not do these drawings.


Don Pauken stated, please tell me what the exit on the West has to be. What property does that exit.


Jeff VanWeelden stated, that would exit at 300.


Don Pauken stated, yes as far as the lot, lot 1 or lot 2.


Jeff VanWeelden stated, it would exit coming across lot 2.


Don Pauken stated, so in essence you are going to use lot 1 for your business.


Jeff VanWeelden stated, well I would be using lot 1 if I stored containers for my business also.


Don Pauken stated, this is April of 2005 and this was submitted middle of last year and was approved June 15 of last year. How come you knew you were going to use lot 1 at that time, but did not get this approval to use this.


Jeff VanWeelden stated, sir I didn’t own this when this was approved.


Don Pauken asked, did you look at this when you bought the property?


Jeff VanWeelden stated, no I did not look at the traffic flow, no I did not.


Vice President Jay Clawson stated, I don’t think that is relevant at this time to get in an argument with him about this.


Don Pauken stated, I think you should look at this.


Vice President Jay Clawson stated, I agree, but I don’t think there is reason to argue, you can submit here.


Don Pauken stated, I’m just saying the purpose, he said he was going to use this property for parking, I’m saying he is using the property for the transfer station access. This is not what he has indicated tonight. In addition to the concerns from Mr. Chiafos, my concerns extend to how the business has stayed within the county and IDEM requirements. Is this an indication of what is a head. Let me site a few examples. On December 13 zoning meeting which we talked about the North side property the 4 acres there. You saw some photographs of business equipment being stored on lot 1, this is a zoning ordinance violation. Shortly there after it was corrected, the containers were removed. However, there is a piece of equipment still in back of the garage and it has been there ever since and is still there as of yesterday. I don’t know if it is there today or not. On December 16th, White County Transfer facility was cited by IDEM for violation of the operational and pre-operational requirements. Transferring waste on site before facility completion and approval.


Vice President Jay Clawson asked, what was the violation, he was transferring cargo to be sent to White County recycling. The Commissioners have asked him.


Jeff VanWeelden stated, I have a copy of that violation for you.


Vice President Jay Clawson stated, if he would do that and he was taking cardboard out of the dumpster and taking it over to White County to sell it at a profit and he wasn’t charging them to do. That was the violation, right.


Don Pauken stated, according to IDEM it was a violation, however, of the permit that has been approved by IDEM. I didn’t write the violation, I’m just citing what IDEM was doing. Yesterday, I had the opportunity or I drove by Rangeline Properties and what I witnessed was a pickup truck backed up to the topper of a garbage truck. Somebody was transferring trash from the pickup into the hopper of the garbage truck. This is still a violation the same violation which was cited by IDEM, transferring trash. The other question I had on that particular thing. No other landfills or transfer station are open on Sundays, is trash being stored there in trash trucks over the weekend, if so this is also a violation. I’m against this rezoning because in no way this dumpsite protects or preserves the immediate communities lifestyle and character, nor does it enhance our quality of life or property values. At this time I would ask you that you ask for a show of hands of people who agree with me in opposing this rezoning.


Vice President Jay Clawson stated, show your hands.


Don Pauken stated, thank you.


Attorney Altman stated, for the record to bring it up to date the petitioner has afford a copy of the violation that the last person testified by. It is called Exhibit 1.


Vice President Jay Clawson asked, does anyone have anything else to bring up and not go over the same thing that has been brought. We don’t want to be here until 11:00.


Don Williams stated, I’m Don Williams, I live at 1132 W. Hanawalt which is about a mile and half East of Rangeline Enterprises. My grandmother lives two doors East of me and I take care of her property. I was noticing today, I have lived there for 15 years. I noticed today that my grandmother has a real steep hill right at the edge of the road and now there is a dip in the road and I have got this big wash out started in that hill. I’ve been there 15 years mowing that property and I’ve never had any problems, but since all of sudden we have all of these big trucks coming down the road. Who is going to fix that spot in the road and not wash out that hill? My second question is I know that Mr. VanWeelden wants to keep clean dumpster which is fine, I would like for him to explain to me when he goes where ever and dumps his trash out of those dumpsters, how does he clean that dumpster before he considers it a clean dumpster?


Philip Chiafos stated, I’m Phil Chiafos I live at 3273 E. Division Road. We can stay until 12:00. I’ve worked at landfills, haul trash to transfer stations. There is no good going to come out of this, none. They only employ one or two people. It is a bad deal all the way around, I live on probably the most dangerous piece of property on that road. I’ve cleared bushes to and made it safe for my wife, she runs a day care. There is, I just don’t see it being a good thing. Not for this area at all.


Leae Williams stated, I’m Leae William and I live at 1136 W. Hanawalt also out by the jail. You are more then welcome to come to my house anytime and try to pull out of my driveway. It is very dangerous, there are hills on both sides of me, and it is very dangerous when I go to pull out and when I walk. I work with the mentally ill and I transport them through White County. I was transporting a client the other day and turned off Rangeline down Hanawalt and I had a truck at the properties that we are discussing pull out in front of me, where I had to stop because he was bigger than I was. The other thing Mr. Clawson I would like a clarification on a statement that you made just a few minutes ago. Did I hear you say that the White County Commissioners have asked Mr. VanWeelden for a favor?


Vice President Jay Clawson stated, no not a favor…


Leae Williams stated, about transferring cardboard and that for the city. As a voter I just want to know…


Vice President Jay Clawson stated, no…


Leae Williams asked, I just want to know what you mean, I’m sorry I heard you say he asked for a favor.


Vice President Jay Clawson stated, okay, the solid waste district was they want to reduce the amount of solid waste going to the landfill, so there was, I guess Jeff could answer it better than me. He said that they had a verbal agreement that he could bring card board over to White County recycle and they would, you now at no charge to them, instead of him bundling it and selling it himself, he was just given the clean cardboard to the recycling so they could make money for the recycling center.


Leae Williams asked, does the City of Monticello no longer have their property East of Monticello where they use to take trash.


Vice President Jay Clawson stated, no that is closed.


Leae Williams stated, that is closed.


Vice President Jay Clawson stated, they use that only for trees and leaves.


Leae Williams stated, I just wanted to get it clear that he is doing a favor for the city then.


Vice President Jay Clawson stated, no, it was nothing for the city, nothing at all, they went to the White County recycling.


Leae Williams stated, so he…


(Someone said something in the audience.)


Vice President Jay Clawson stated, it is not a favor for anybody, it is just to keep that amount of trash out of the dump, when you put recyclable materials in the dump you are wasting dump space with stuff that can be recycled. It is one of the things that all landfills are trying to do across the nation to keep recyclable things out.


Leae Williams stated, I want to say that the City of Monticello is a beautiful city and we have a lot of tourist that come in for Indiana Beach, Indiana Beach campground, they take 6th street. How many of these people are going to be affected. I’m not going to pay money to go vacation in a garbage dump. I oppose this very strongly as a resident of the Hanawalt neighborhood and a resident of the City of Monticello. Someone who hopes to see our city continue to grow. Thank you.


Vice President Jay Clawson asked, is there anything else?


Bill Pyle stated, I’m Bill Pyle and I live at 3562 E Division less than a half of mile East of Jeff’s place. I have a dedicated wetland and wild life habitat about 17 acres of it. I’m on my property a lot, and I see a lot. At the last meeting that Jeff and I was present at I had a conversation with him outside about the speed of his trucks and they slowed down. Since then he has hired quite a few more drivers, and the speed is a problem. Tammy mentioned tonight that the road is 17’ wide. Garbage trucks at 10’ and 12’ wide, how wide are school buses? They are not that wide, well how wide are they. (someone said they are not that wide)


Charles Mellon stated, school buses, not over 8’.


(Several answered loudly from the audience that they were bigger than 8’.)


Gary Barbour stated, the legal width of a vehicle can only be 102” wide. The mirrors can be out farther than that.


Tammy Chiafos stated, yelled out that 8’ is 96”……


Gary Barbour stated, I understand that, it is 96” so it is a 102” is 8’5. So 8.5 is the widest a vehicle can be.


Bill Pyle asked, okay is a garbage truck wider than 8.5’?


Gary Barbour stated, no they are not.


Bill Pyle stated, they are not.


Gary Barbour stated, no.


Bill Pyle stated, that is still pretty close 16’ there and that is what I see, it could be a tragedy out there, the width of the road. The other thing is, I’ve heard a trash dumpsite mentioned and I’ve looked at that plan that was submitted to you and it shows a transfer station and a compactor. Has that been brought up here, does anyone know about that on this board?


Jay does anyone know about this on this board?


Vice President Jay Clawson stated, yes. The reason they filed the petition for this, a lot of people to if you are going, we may as well say what size building that he is planning on putting.


Bill Pyle stated, it is not on the drawing and no body is talking about it that is what I have a problem with, no one has mentioned it. No one wants to talk about it.


Gary Barbour stated, wait a minute, is this drawing submit for this project by Mr. VanWeelden?


Vice President Jay Clawson stated, no.


Attorney Altman stated, no


Gary Barbour stated, okay then how can we follow this drawing that wasn’t presented by him.


Bill Pyle stated, it’s his property


Gary Barbour stated, it is on his property.


Vice President Jay Clawson stated, that is on property that is already zoned.


Gary Barbour stated, this was done before he owned the property.


Bill Pyle stated, okay so it is zoned that he can put that in there.


Vice President Jay Clawson stated, and us changing it wouldn’t stop that at all.


Bill Pyle stated, I understand that.


Vice President Jay Clawson stated, it is already there, we are talking about the property to the North to the West.


Bill Pyle stated, if you look at that map he needs that piece property to back those trucks in and out to put in to that transfer station. If you look at the flow of the traffic on that drawing, he can not get those semi’s in to that transfer station without pulling them up on side one and backing them up. Do you see that? He hasn’t mentioned that here.


Vice President Jay Clawson stated, that building he is proposing on there is not big enough to put semis into anyway. This isn’t what they have in Lafayette like the huge transfer station there. This is similar to what they have in Carroll County at their old landfill. The County operates a small trash transfer station down there, which they have a packer, which will pack. What sizse of compactor with this hold?


Jeff VanWeelden stated, a 42-yard trash compactor. There is no room for semis in there.


Several are talking from the audience at once.


Attorney Altman stated, hey one at a time.


Bill Pyle stated, I asked the board a question and I want to ask it again. Can he put that on that site?


Vice President Jay Clawson stated, he can’t move it to the other site that he is proposing.


Bill Pyle stated, my question is can he put that on that site.


Vice President Jay Clawson stated, he can put that there right now if he wanted to without rezoning any other property.


Bill Pyle stated, okay but he can’t utilize it without the site we are talking about, the plot the rezoning issue we are talking about, he can’t utilize it without that piece of property. He has not mentioned that.


Jeff VanWeelden stated, I’ve not looked at the traffic flow, I can probably still come in front of my other building, I’m not saying I can or I can’t, but I have not looked at the traffic flow.


Bill Pyle asked, are you the President of this meeting tonight Jay?


Vice President Jay Clawson stated, I’m…


Jeff VanWeelden stated, that has already been submitted and done.


Bill Pyle stated, I would like to go on then. If we look at that and utilize it…


Vice President Jay Clawson stated, he is not showing any egress/ingress off of the other lot through, everything is coming off of the lot that is already. His traffic flow on the record shows no flow across lot 1 it all shows coming in to the left side of his metal building and none of it is going out on 300.


Bill Pyle stated, no it is pulling up off of the West there where that house was and backing into that. Can't you see those arrows on that drawing?


Vice President Jay Clawson stated, yes. I see where they pull in, sure I can.


Bill Pyle stated, so basically he can put that in there if he gets the zone and that is an expansion of his business. That could cause this, he has the option if he chooses to haul trash from Monticello and Brookston to County Line Landfill, North of Pulaski or to Newton County landfill. He has that option.


Vice President Jay Clawson stated, yes. If they close our landfill again that would be an option for anybody that is in the trash business.


Bill Pyle stated, they have the option if they choose to accept independent trash, haulers of White County and out of county, independent haulers from near by counties. This can take place near the compactor and fees can be charged, so this is basically a trash dump site and you talk about Liberty Landfill, he could take the fees and take that some where else and Liberty Landfill would loose the fees. He is hauling Monticello and Brookston trash if he so chooses to build that.


Jeff VanWeelden stated, those…


Attorney Altman stated, wait, let's just talk, he has the floor.


Vice President Jay Clawson stated, when he is done you can have the floor back.


Bill Pyle stated, like I told you I’m out on my property a lot. The traffic has really increased. If a transfer station compactor, trash dump site is established on that property, you think about the traffic from out of county, independents, local residence bringing trash out there so they don’t have to go to Liberty landfill, that road is not ready for that kind of traffic. It is not ready, it is not wide enough, and it is not ready. That is all I have. Thank you for your time.


Jeff VanWeelden stated, I want to address something. Some of you were concerned about rats. Rats, mice whatever you want to call it, you know there is a junk yard right next door to me where people can drop their cars off full of garbage and rats, if rats are what you are concerned about. I don’t hold my garbage is not filled with rats, it is not. If I have garbage there, it may be a little bit in the back of the truck at the end of the day or something. That is not where you are getting rats, you will get rats coming from where garbage is consistently at. You bought your house 4 years ago and you knew you moving in next to a junkyard. Correct?


Tammy Chiafos stated, the junkyard is not next to my home. I do not see that.


Jeff VanWeelden stated, my property is not next to yours either.


Tammy Chiafos stated, it is not a junkyard, it is a vehicle salvage yard. It doesn’t have trash in it, trash from people’s homes.


Jeff VanWeelden stated, I believe on the sign it says junkyard for sale.


Vice President Jay Clawson stated, okay.


Jeff VanWeelden stated, you say you look at your window and see containers, okay how about planting pine trees there.


Tammy Chiafos stated, it will take 20 years for those pine trees to grow.


Vice President Jay Clawson stated, okay let's.


Attorney Altman stated, hold on, the discussion is…


Several talking at once raising their voices


Philip Chiafos stated, you are a slob.


Attorney Altman stated, sir, do you want to leave?


Philip Chiafos stated, no sir.


Attorney Altman stated, we don’t interrupt you so don’t interrupt him. Discussion is this way not with them.


Jeff VanWeelden stated, okay. Worried about coyote’s coming around. Coyote can go to water also, if there is a pond there they can go there for water. The other day I was setting out there and people are complaining about trash being on Hanawalt road. The girl, who sets in the office, her window looks right out at the stop sign on Hanawalt and 300. The other day I asked her to count from the afternoon until she leaves from 1:00 until 5:00, I asked her to count how many people she saw stop there and actually pitch stuff out. There were 13 people in that one afternoon that stopped there at that stop sign and threw something out. There were 4 other people who continued on, took the jog, and pitched something out. That was in a 4-hour period of time. I told them the last time, my driver’s, I asked them to use highway 24 coming into town. They go down Hanawalt Road, yes they go down Hanawalt road sometime, and my driver’s are speeding ask the Sheriff to set there, and if they are speeding pull them over. Someone else was talking about having a garbage company in this county being a pull from tourist, there are 5 other trash companies in this county also. I don’t know how just one could be a pull from tourist.


Bill Pyle stated, I would ask Jeff to, he has touched everything on the rats and coyote. Let's hear something about the transfer station and the compactor, which he has on his drawing, let’s, hear something on that.


Jeff VanWeelden stated, the transfer station is already zoned in, it has already been approved by IDEM. People are talking about tractor-trailers and semi’s pulling in there. The way the transfer station is there I wouldn’t have to add one piece of equipment that I don’t already have to transfer out of that location. There is nowhere around there that shows a semi backing in or anything like that. If it was built today there would be no other vehicle that I don’t have right now on that property that would be needed or you see come out of my property, no other vehicle would be needed to operate that transfer station.


Don Pauken stated, Don Pauken again. If you look at that drawing the envelope line is in bold, that is lot 2 and that is what facility the transfer facility that has been approved for inclusion within those dash lines. If he can drive a truck back into that compactor area and load that compactor he is a better driver than I am, I couldn’t even get a Volkswagen in there on that particular piece of property. My point is lot 1 is to the West of that and he has to have lot 1. He has to use lot 1 for the transfer facility or it is no go. There is no way he can use that without lot 1. One more point I would like to bring up and I’m going to read this right out of a permit that has been accepted. Should unacceptable waste be delivered to the facility by a private individual or a commercial hauler the material will be refused by the transfer station supervisor personnel with instructions to the hauler for proper disposal. Private individual that opens the door later on to allow anybody and his brother to come up and down that road and deliver trash. What do you think that is going to be like.


Tammy Chiafos stated, Tammy Chiafos…


Vice President Jay Clawson stated, do you have anything new to bring to the agenda.


Tammy Chiafos stated, I would like to make a comment on what Mr. VanWeelden said if that is all right with you.


Vice President Jay Clawson stated, make it short.


Tammy Chiafos stated, okay when I moved into my home yes there was a salvage yard similar to Willie Motes. I do not see it from my house, traffic has not been affected by that since he has bought range line properties that it what I’m concerned about, the traffic. Yes there have been pine trees planted along the line of the lot across the road, which is the 4 acres. They are probably about 10’ in between and to block the view it would take approximately 15 to 20 years.


Vice President Jay Clawson stated, with a show of hands, is the main draw back to his rezoning request the transfer station? Is that the main concern, I want to see a show of hands. If he was willing to withdraw his request for a transfer station and just rezone it to the I-2 the transfer station is the main down fall.


Several are talking at once.


Vice President Jay Clawson stated, again it is hard to be, like Mr. Pauken brought up. Somebody came and maybe they forgot to pick up his trash and they came in and wanted to empty their trash barrel into the back of his thing and compact it on the route. I know on city routes some people forget to put their trash out at 6:30 in the morning. I mean this is something that we can ask Mr. VanWeelden to do before we act on this request. If it is open for general business, like you said it does create a lot more traffic than what he would create then just running his trash business out of that property.


Bill Pyle asked, did you say he wasn’t going to build that transfer station or compactor.


Vice President Jay Clawson stated, in conversations with Jeff he is not planning on building that transfer station at any time soon.


Bill Pyle stated, are you answering that question for him….


Vice President Jay Clawson stated, he told me this to my face.


Bill Pyle stated, well I would like to hear him say it.


Vice President Jay Clawson stated, he has the option to build it anytime.


Jeff VanWeelden stated, I have the option to build it anytime. I told him the way I’m running right now I’m direct hauling everything to Liberty Landfill. There is a lot of factors that can change in that. Rates go up and landfill closes there are a lot of factors that go into that being able to keep operating.


Bill Pyle stated, if you had decided something or stated that you would not build that transfer station…..


Jeff VanWeelden stated, I wouldn’t sign that, there is no one in here that can guarantee what the business is going to be…


Bill Pyle asked, so you are enlarging your business by getting that new site, lot 1.


Jeff VanWeelden stated, no I’m not trying to enlarge my business.


Bill Pyle stated, why can’t you say that….


Jeff VanWeelden stated, I have not hired anybody since the meeting that we had with the trucks. I have not operated any more trucks from that facility that I wasn’t running before. No I would not sign something that says I would never build a transfer station because there are a lot of things that can change. The transportation has already been put through. I would not sign anything, no one can guarantee that in any line of business no one can guarantee the factors and business is going to stay the same forever.


Discussion among the board members.


Don Pauken stated, Don Pauken again. As far as making any concession relative to the transfer station not being built, you can forget that also because those signatures that were signed on that petition I would be backing out on them. They signed that any equipment used in the trash business.


Vice President Jay Clawson stated, fine.


Attorney Altman stated, thank you.


Jim Farley stated, I’m Jim Farley. I’m the 4th house North of Hanenkratt's. My questions is once it gets proposed the transfer station what rebuttal would we have if they started bringing semis in? How are we guaranteed it won’t be semis?


Attorney Altman stated, it depends on what transfer station you are talking about.


Jim Farley stated, the compactor across the street or anything.


Attorney Altman stated, he has approval for the plans as a transfer station.


Jim Farley stated, but he says no semis. He said it would be his…


Attorney Altman stated, that is a limitation of his approval. What he can’t do is do it outside of the first lot. In other words he can do it on the lot that isn’t in question tonight. He can do it as it was approved. He just can’t do it on this lot that we are talking about tonight.


Jim Farley stated, I work in Lafayette and I come home approximately about 2:45 p.m. I follow trash trucks, empty trash trucks, empty semi’s that have the netting on top. I’m sure everyone has seen them all rolled up. Anybody that wants to know what their property will look like just look at the road North of the interstate North of Brookston. Look out at the fields now that summer is here and they are starting to work their fields. You want to see what your property will look like with that semi’s going down the road that is a good example.


Attorney Altman stated, thank you Mr. Farley.


Bill Pyle stated, I have lots of questions and I don’t mean to hog the mice Jay or Mr. President, but I’ve got a lot on my mind. I want to ask you something. Isn’t there a special exception involved here tonight?


Attorney Altman stated, no.


Bill Pyle stated, isn’t there a special exception on that compactor that he has to acquire?


Vice President Jay Clawson stated, that is on the BZA, the Board of Zoning Appeals.


Attorney Altman stated, that is the BZA, there is an approved special exception on that.


Bill Pyle stated, so.


Attorney Altman stated, it is approved.


Bill Pyle stated, already he does, but he has to get the exception.


Attorney Altman stated, no.


Bill Pyle stated, it is already approved.


Attorney Altman stated, it is already approved.


Bill Pyle asked, then he can go if he gets lot 1? He can build.


Vice President Jay Clawson stated, he can build if it is turned down.


Bill Pyle stated, there isn’t enough room there my friend. There is not enough room.


Attorney Altman stated, what we are saying to you is he has that approved. I’m not saying anything bigger than that or any smaller.


Bill Pyle stated, I want to rebut something Jeff said. He mentioned the salvage yard. Isn’t that a beautiful thing. That is the biggest eye soar in this state. He's starting to look like that.


Kathy Cade stated, I’m Kathy Cade and I live on 3599 E. Highway 24, which is two places West of Anderson’s Vet Hospital. We have 27 acres. We bought the property two years ago and we moved into the property last June. We have several horses, goats, dogs, and children. The property had been 17 acres of tillable property. We are in the process of planting trees, mowing and things like that to get in to a more wild life friendly property. We talk about the salvage yard that is there, yes it has been there, yes it is ugly, and yes it probably has oil, garbage in someone’s trunk. That is a concern, but it has been there, we can’t change that. The lot that they are trying to approve tonight is, or the lot that has already been approved for the transfer station is approved, and can’t do anything about that. We can do is the lot that they are trying to approve tonight might, I don’t know might someday eliminate big semi’s, bigger trucks, bigger transfer station from coming there. Can anyone, or does anyone know what happens when the trash is compacted and is there any type of prevention of chemicals or human waste, or animal waste from reaching out into the ground or into our wells and drinking water and things. Does anyone know that?


Vice President Jay Clawson stated, I’m sure with IDEM having to deal through the city that I’ve IDEM makes us do, I’m sure they would have to have pretty restrict requirements about any kind of testing if it is a permitted site. I’m sure they will test him weekly, monthly, to make sure yes.


Kathy Cade stated, you would guess that, you guess that.


Vice President Jay Clawson stated, yes, I would almost and like I’ve been around the Carroll County and it doesn’t have a tremendous amount of traffic. There are local people who haul stuff and instead of going to the landfill with a pickup load of stuff they will haul it there.


Kathy Cade stated, that is the Carroll County station, we are talking about the White County.


Vice President Jay Clawson stated, right, but Lafayette has a huge facility that has trucks in and out of there all of the time.


Kathy Cade stated, all I’m saying is approving this lot may increase possible higher traffic, bigger trucks, and more trash.


Attorney Altman stated, thank you very much, your point is well taken.


Tammy Chiafos stated, I would like to know why are all of these trash trucks driving down Hanawalt and Division Road? Why aren’t they going around on Highway 24?


Jeff VanWeelden stated, like before I have asked my driver’s to go down 24. I can get on them more. There is fuel dock on the other side of 6th Street. At the end of the day…. I’m sorry that they come up that road, they are not supposed to. That is something that I can address.


Attorney Altman stated, thank you.


Tammy Chiafos stated, if it is your business can’t you tell them, it is your business, your employees…


Vice President Jay Clawson stated, okay.


Tammy Chiafos asked, can’t he tell them they have to go on Highway 24?


Attorney Altman stated, I suppose he can, but we can’t control that. That is part of the territory.


Vice President Jay Clawson stated, someone different.


Larry Noe stated, I’m Larry Noe and I own property at 128 S. 400 E. and 143 S. 400 E. It is exactly one mile East of the proposed ordinance. I fired Jeff’s company over $15.00 a month service that he provided me and it was because of lack of customer service. His driver’s decided that they were going to drive through my yard and also my neighbor’s yard and I reported it 3 times and I got no response. Finally he called me and I guess it is just an indication of what I’m hearing tonight he tried to sell me a 21 yard roll off, I have no idea what that has to do with his driver’s driving through my yard. You talk about the junkyard, I was involved with that back in the late 60’s and we got that shoved down our throats and that is why the junkyard is there today. I also like Mr. Pyle spend a lot of time on my property. I have failed yet to see one of those roll off containers go down Hanawalt with netting over it. I’m not sure that would help anyhow because last week I went to Monon to Buffalo on 16. This county ought to be ashamed of the trash along that road. It is absolutely horrendous.


Vice President Jay Clawson stated, thank you. Anybody else in the audience with something different?


Philip Chiafos stated, I’m Philip again and I apologize for earlier. As far as the trash, I have hunted the woods, the fence line that borders his property and then comes across to my property to the North side of the property there. In 4 years that I’ve walked my dog back there the other day the woods was full of trash. That was not there before.


Attorney Altman stated, thank you.


Don Williams stated, I had a question earlier and it didn’t get answered. I’m still like to know where you clean the dumpster, how you clean it, and what he would consider a clean dumpster to store out there?


Vice President Jay Clawson asked, Jeff do you want to answer that?


Jeff VanWeelden stated, when I, what I consider a clean dumpster is a container that is empty at a facility or the landfill. It is clean, nothing leaking out of it going down the road, nothing blowing out. That is what I considered a clean container.


Philip Chiafos stated, I walked back there and trespassed on your property one evening and holes in the dumpsters. I mean rain, the wash, where is that water going to go. Right down to my pond. Where do you wash out? Is there concrete? Any leach? He is polluting now.


Kathy Cade stated, the question I had about the testing of the soil and that Jay kind of answered I assume they have daily, monthly, or weekly test. Can anyone answer that question?


Vice President Jay Clawson stated, no, we are not experts on that. If they permit it according to the Environmental management, I’m sure they have to police that with their own people.


Kathy Cade asked, what about the person that is putting in the facility, can he answer that question?


Jeff VanWeelden stated, I would have to read through the permit, but I’m sure IDEM has a water containment in the permit and I sure it has to be pumped out by a legal hauler for hauling that.


Robert Thomas stated, IDEM has what is called a wellhead protection, I know that because I work for a utility. That would probably fall in the lines of that.


??? someone asked from the audience what is a wellhead protection.


Robert Thomas stated, what a wellhead protection is. I don’t know what it does for private individuals, but for our city we have farms, our wells are located 2 miles East of Wolcott and we have farmers that farm right up next to our wells. They have to submit to IDEM what they use on their fields and how much they use on the fields. They have chemicals that they use on our fields that they have to monitor. We send in bacteria samples and we have to send in water samples to make sure that these chemicals to do not run off in to our wells.


??? someone yelled who has to pay for that.


Robert Thompson stated, the city does.


??? we are all private individuals we don’t have that.


Robert Thomas stated, that is where I don’t know where that would go in that area. Jeff might have to pay for that or the State. That is between IDEM, but that is how a wellhead protection works for a town or city.


Charles Mellon stated, the City of Monticello did the same thing.


Vice President Jay Clawson stated, yes, that was a state law that all cities had to do it.

Is the board ready to vote? There is nothing new?


Without further discussion the board voted.


The results of the vote were as follows: 4 affirmative and 3 negative. This will be presented to the White County Commissioners for their action.

This will be next Monday at 8:30 a.m.


#874 Rangeline Properties, Inc., Owner; Jeff VanWeelden, Applicant; The property is located on 4.00 acres, West of Monticello on the Northeast corner of Division Road and County Road 300 E. Tabled from the February 14, 2005 meeting.

Violation: They are currently using this property to store dumpsters without being properly zoned.

Request: They are requesting to rezone from A-1 to I-2.

Vice President Jay Clawson stated, do you want to explain that.

Attorney Altman stated, the thing is the vote was 4 yes and 3 no’s. To have a favorable recommendation you must have the majority of the board. That would be 6, and since it did not have 6 it will be forward to the County Commissioners with what is called a no recommendation. That is all I can say. It does have some effect on the actions that the Commissioners can take or not take on this particular request. I would be glad to talk to anyone after the meeting and explain that. I think you might learn more in the law then you want.

Vice President Jay Clawson asked, Jeff do you want to explain to the board what you are proposing for this property.

Jeff VanWeelden stated, I’m proposing the same thing I did 3 months ago since December. I have as everyone has seen and knows I have containers on the 4 acres North of my property. They are 100% empty and all I’m asking for is storage for those containers. I would be willing to sign something for people if it makes them feel better. Anything else I know there was a concern at the beginning that I had trucks parked over there. I would be willing to sign something that said there will be no trucks parked over there. No buildings, that I could not build a building over there. That is 100% absolutely fine with me. I have had empty containers over there since day one and that is all I’m asking, proposing the same thing. After hearing their concerns and stuff I would be willing to sign that I would not build a building over there or park any trucks over there.

Attorney Altman stated, in the interest of speeding things up, since these are right across from each other and most of the evidence that we have heard already I think if all of you stood up and said, you really would be saying the same thing or something very similar to that or at least about the merits of the request. I would recommend that the board accept into evidence all of the evidence that was submitted on application 873 as it applies to the application 874. It seems to me that it does apply and it is relevant. It doesn’t mean that people can’t say something about this from a different point of view. I think it would just speed things up. Is that the wishes of the board or does the board want to go ahead and hear everything again.

Vice President Jay Clawson stated, just new testimony.

Attorney Altman stated, just new testimony is what I’m saying about he request.

Vice President Jay Clawson stated, Don this guy was first he was making his way up front and then you will have the floor next.

Don Pauken stated, I was going to answer his question.

Attorney Altman stated, it is up to the board whether they want to hear more evidence or not.

Don Pauken stated, I realize that Jerry.

Attorney Altman stated, that is the board’s decision.

Don Pauken stated, but there are new people here who have not heard the testimony before and there somebody new on the board here.

Attorney Altman stated, I’m talking about the evidence that we have heard this evening.

Don Pauken stated, they haven’t heard this.

Vice President Jay Clawson stated, what you present for the first property. You can present more on the second, we just do not want to hear the same thing again.

Tom Parsley stated, I’m Tom Parsley. I own property about half a mile East on Hanawalt Road. I live and own property quarter of a mile North of this proposed concern that we are talking about here. There is one thing about this 4 acres that I see here that has not been touched upon. That is about, I lived there for 12 years about a quarter of mile North of this corner. I lived at the other location for about 30 years, graduated from high school and everything living on Hanawalt road. Just North of this 4 acres we are talking about is an open ditch. It is about 500’ to the best of my recollection to the corner of this 4 acres. The open ditch goes North and East and I think it dumps into the Tippecanoe River at Ghost Hollow. Maybe someone can correct that.

Someone yelled out that it is Carter ditch.

Tom Parsley stated, the 4 acres in question, about ¼ of that stands under water, stagnate water probably 10 months out of the year. I have seen mallard ducks raise babies on that stagnate water that stands there. I’ve got pictures if anybody wants to see them. I’ve got pictures of that stagnate water. I would prefer that you would look at them.

Attorney Altman stated, we will accept those as Objector’s Exhibit 1 – 12.

Tom Parsley stated, I’m not done.

Attorney Altman stated, I didn’t say that.

Tom Parsley stated, sorry, this lady talked about seeing the dumpsters from her window. My kitchen faces the South on a little hill and I look at those dumpster 3 times a day while I’m eating. Some trees were planted in her direction. None planted on the North side to stop my view. Granted there is a fencerow that is grown up a little bit here in the pictures. In addition to where this open ditch is, the farmer who farms this about 3 or 4 years ago, there is a couple of swells in this field and he got in there with grading equipment and made a shallow swell to take the surface water off of that field into that open ditch. I’ve walked that field lately and I’ve made rough drawings here in case anyone is interested in looking at them. One of those swells that the farmer has made goes right up to the Northeast corner of this property and it is my contention that surface water sooner or later is going to get into that open ditch. I would estimate that it is 3 miles to the river. Someone talked about Monticello, how many people come here to visit, swim and I certainly, I don’t know how many chemicals leak out of there. I know you talked like there are certain things that can be checked to stop that. The question I have is there a possibility of chemicals and whatever from surface getting in that open ditch and finding its way to the lake. Other than that I share the same concerns with these other people. I have lived on Hanawalt most of my life. It is just full of potholes and has been since day one. I share the same concerns as everyone else. This open ditch has not been mentioned, and I didn’t talk about it under the before because we were talking about the lot. We are now we are talking about the North side.

Attorney Altman stated, thank you. The difference of apples and oranges.

Philip Chiafos stated, I don’t mean to beat the same bush, but as well I have been back there and there is no trespassing signs up and I have seen the holes in the dumpsters. They may be painted up pretty and they may look good, but they are not right. They are not right at all. They are illegal if they have holes in I think. They can be rotten and leak out and drain into the lake I guess.

Bill Pyle stated, well I see there is some dead air, I’ll take it. I’d like to address the board regarding the rezoning the property located on North Division Road per request Rangeline Properties. At this time I would like to acknowledge that the members of the board are well aware of the opposition from White County home owners regarding the issue of rezoning this particular piece of property address tonight. With that said I will not take additional time to express our displeasure with the rezoning issue. However, I would like to point out what has occurred on that property since our last meeting. There has been additional standing water that Mr. Parsley referenced to throughout the winter. Because of this additional standing water and consistent wet conditions of the property there has been observations of trucks being stuck on that property trying to enter and exit. Not only have the original containers remained on the property since the last meeting in December, but the numbers of containers have increased on that property. We were under the impression that no additional containers were to be added to the property until the rezoning issue had been resolved. Are we making a compromise on the rezoning issue, is this good for White County residents, its environment, traffic, and the roads that we all use. I look around and I see friends and neighbors and they are all honest people, hard working. They take care of their property. They have a high standard of up keep. Our conscience is clear on this issue, we have done what county government requires that we do. Just our appearing here tonight shows our involvement and solidarity to stand together on this request for rezoning. We ask the board to vote with a good conscience. Do what is right for White County please vote not for this rezoning request. Thank you.

Kathy Cade stated, what I have to say about this lot is, Jeff may say yes I will sign I won’t park trucks, I’m not going to build a building that is all fine and dandy, but tomorrow he could sell the property to a big waste management company. It is zoned industrial and then we have no signature from Jeff that nothing would be parked there, so then I’m not all good on the laws and things. That is how I understand it, correct me if I’m wrong.

Vice President Jay Clawson stated, if we approve this with a commitment that there would never be any buildings permits issued for structures on that property and that the only I-2 use on that property would be storage of those containers, that is all he can do.

Kathy Cade stated, if he sold the property.

Vice President Jay Clawson stated, even if he sold the property, they would have to come back to our board and re-petition to change the zoning.

Kathy Cade stated, even though it is already zoned.

Vice President Jay Clawson stated, yes. There is a commitment.

Attorney Altman stated, the commitment limits it no matter who owns it.

Kathy Cade stated, so the limit would be exactly the way Jeff would sign the papers.

Attorney Altman stated, yes.

Vice President Jay Clawson stated, Jeff was willing to keep in at A-1 with trying to get a commitment to be able to store the containers at that site with that. Diann found out that it wasn’t legal, we could not do that. We couldn’t give him that permission, this is the only other recourse he could use this property and still store his containers on this small piece of property.

Kathy Cade asked, so what it ever actually approved that he could store these containers here?

Director Weaver stated, no, not as yet.

Vice President Jay Clawson stated, no not yet.

Kathy Cade stated, okay they keep multiplying.

Vice President Jay Clawson stated, okay we’ve heard that.

Kathy Cade stated, I’m not getting paid to be here tonight, you guys are this is your job. Everyone is looking at his or her watch.

Vice President Jay Clawson stated, I don’t have a watch.

Kathy Cade stated, I know you guys don’t want to be here, that is fine, I don’t want to be here either.

Vice President Jay Clawson stated, that is fine, I’m glad to listen to what you have to say and we want to answer the questions to the best that we can.

Attorney Altman stated, a commitment to answer the question would be and would restrict anyone’s use of that property. No matter if it is Jeff or 3 owners down 30 years from now or a 100 years from now.

Tom Parsley stated, earlier a couple of people spoke and a map was presented and a person was to point on that map where they lived on that map, since I felt compelled to speak on that subject awhile ago.

Vice President Jay Clawson stated, you are already on the map.

Tom Parsley asked, I’m already on the map. It is half a mile down. Can I see that?

Attorney Altman stated, yes.

Tom Parsley stated, the only thing missing on that map is that ditch and the really should be taken into account.

(Currently going over the maps with Mr. Parsley.)

Tom Parsley stated, I stepped this out the other day and I think it is about 500’ and there is a swell in there and in effort to get rid of his surface water he made a swell to take the surface water right to the head of that.

Essy Williams stated, I’m Essy Williams. I live at 1132 W. Hanawalt. Something was said what if he sells it. The next people that come in they are limited to what they can put on there or what they can do with it. The question was asked what he has on that property now is not legally there or should not be there because of it not being legally zoned right. Who is going to enforce it if he does sell it since no one is enforcing him to abide by the law now? Right now he is illegally storing his stuff on this property.

Vice President Jay Clawson stated, we understand that. He has a violation pending on this that is on the agenda for after this meeting.

Essy Williams stated, okay so the next person if he sells it the next person comes in and says I want to build a building there, they are going to put it up there and I’ll wait until I rezone it or give me permission to do that. The building is there or in this case the storage units are there. Why is it left there, why is he not forced to move his stuff now and store it somewhere else, until you guys say no or yes.

Someone from the audience said why are you worrying about it, you can see it from your house.

Essy Williams stated, you are right I can’t see it from my house. Everything…

Director Weaver stated, in my defense I would like to respond to that. There was a letter sent to him stating that he is in violation of the ordinance. I am the one who enforces this and I have sent the letter.

Essy Williams stated, what does a letter do? What does a letter do? I’m sorry what does a letter do?

Director Weaver stated, then it comes to this…

Essy Williams stated, but right now leaching out into my water system, whatever is stored in those containers, which you say are clean, by whose means.

Jeff VanWeelden stated, there is nothing in those containers.

Essy Williams stated, in those containers, those are clean.

Jeff VanWeelden stated, no.

Essy Williams stated, so I could go in there and eat my dinner then.

Jeff VanWeelden stated, if you would like too.

Essy Williams asked, but would it be sanitized, would it be clean? The rain that comes and the snow that melt down into there and taking all of the chemicals that might or might not be there because you decide it is clean okay to drink and I won’t be contaminated and I’m not going… You guys just irritate me because you don’t seem to care about our ecological system, you don’t care that they are still setting there.

Gary Barbour stated, wait a minute, wait a minute. Enough you cannot set there and tell us that none of us care. We attend these meetings every month.

Essy Williams stated, it doesn’t seem like it.

Gary Barbour stated, so don’t tell us what we do care and what we don’t care about.

Essy Williams stated, it doesn’t seem like it.

Gary Barbour stated, let me tell you something I have been on this board for 13 years, this has got to be the rudest group of speakers I have ever been associated with representing a case. If you want to tell us what the facts are and let us make a decision. Don’t be accusing us of what we are feeling and what we think.

Essy Williams stated, now you feel like we do.

Gary Barbour stated, no I want to tell you every time I come to these meeting because people don’t come here and appreciate what we actually do for this community, now if you want to present something to the board that is new present it, if not please move on so we can get on with the rest of our business.

Essy Williams stated, fine.

Gary Barbour stated, thank you.

Bill Pyle stated, Gary we have been waiting for 3 months to do something about those containers…

Gary Barbour stated, it can only come up…

Bill Pyle stated, wait a minute we have been waiting 3 months.

Gary Barbour stated, the only other action is take legal action yourself.

Vice President Jay Clawson stated, we are all out of order right now. We are talking about zoning violations. I drove down Hanawalt Road today to see because everyone has made a big deal about Mr. VanWeelden just to check to see what is going on. There a tree business that is being ran that shows no rezoning and he over 12 old cars and trucks, old boats setting there. Is that property zoned properly? There is a haul and salvage guy that is junk hauler lives on Hanawalt that goes around picking up old appliances and scrap metal, is he properly zoned for his property. You have Musall’s Lawn and Garden that has a lot of their equipment from their landscaping stored out there, is that properly zoned. We are talking about contamination right up next to you guys, Mel’s Wrecker service. There are cars setting there that are totally smashed that they pull in leaking antifreeze and leaking oil, transmission fluid that are setting on this. Is he properly zoned? Does he have all of the IDEM permits. We try to look, we try to make the best determination and regulate stuff the best we can. We all have the same amount, the trash has to go somewhere, all town, and all people create so much waste and somebody has got to haul it and it has to go somewhere. He right next to and you try to keep like zoning and like area and he is right next to a salvage yard or auto wrecker or whatever or auto recycles. This is the same type of zoning when you keep it cluster. It’s better than scattering I-2 zonings all over the county and those are the things that we look at. Hopefully we try… These kinds of decisions are very hard they are not easy at all. Sometime I would like for someone else to set in this situation like this. This is not easy.

Leae Williams stated, for the past 28 years I have served on numerous boards and executive boards for different agency in this county. My mother gave the first $100 for the new White County Senior Citizens building, it isn’t much, but it is what she could do. I served on the Red Cross board and I’m not going to name all of the boards I’ve been on, and I’ve never received one red cent for doing it. I’ve done it out of the goodness of my heart because I believe in this community and I love the people in this community. I also have been in very heated discussions Mr. Barber and it is upset with the facial expressions, the body language from some board members as well as the audience and I’m a trained professional for body language and body health issues so I do know how to read that. What I ask this board each one of you ladies and gentlemen are here to represent we the little people on what benefits us as a whole. I would like for you…take your husbands and wife’s, mother in law, your children and your grandchildren and you take them for a walk where a dump truck is going to be driving, where they have to go through contaminated soil. I am not an environmental officer, I do not know about contaminations, water pollution and that sort of stuff. I rely on people like you to protect me form stuff like that. I have to walk for health issues many of my neighbors, I see them walk up and down Hanawalt Road. I don’t want to see any child, any old person, or a middle-aged grandma like me splattered along the road. My grandchildren during spring break road their bicycles every single day, down and around this property that being discussed tonight. My grandchildren will lose that right, that freedom because of the choices of their parents which is, we do not want our children exposed to traffic that may kill them or harm them or harm them. We don’t want them expose to being around a dumpsite. This is my first time at this meeting for this meeting on this property. These people are getting very heated, yes they are. What if it was in your back yard? Not my back yard, not a mile from my house, but your back yard. What if you set down and eat breakfast, lunch, and diner in your home and looking at this. As board members that is what your job is to put yourselves in our situations to vote on what is to be best for all of us, the majority, and not an individual. Thank you for your time this evening.

Vice President Jay Clawson asked, anybody else? You are voting keep in mine if this is a yes vote, he has agreed to the stipulations that is will only be for storage of containers, clean containers and no buildings, if it is approved within a certain he would have to provide screening the rest of the way because any…what is the board wishes on screening if it is passed? Do you want it to the North?

Jim Farley asked, what about run off? Is there any rules, stipulations, does he drain into a field tile?

Attorney Altman stated, there aren’t any actually rules by the zoning. There certainly would be I’m sure by IDEM and might was well by the County drainage code. Our zoning doesn’t control that under any circumstances.

Jim Farley stated, so it would be up to somebody in the state and the drainage board?

Attorney Altman stated, yes. We do have something before the board. The question was if they are going to vote on the commitment are you going to require him to have screen on all sides or on what sides. Jay is just asking for some input on that.

Vice President Jay Clawson stated, I would think that we would require that within a 3-month period to screen all three sides, North, East, and West sides.

Attorney Altman stated, that would be the requirement of the commitment.

Bob Musall stated, I just wanted to touch on the leaching and possible run off problem. I deal with a lot of chemicals in my line of work, I’m required by law to triple rinse any containers that I use whether it is the sprayer I use or the tank sprayer or the bottle it comes out of. I’m sure there will probably be stuff like that, that is put in the dumpsters from homeowners that don’t do that because they are not aware of the problem, plus there a lot of farmers use restricted chemicals that can get in those dumpsters. I have dumpster at my site and we also have one at the other site in town and those dumpster have holes in them and they also have build up of dirt in them and that chemical can get soaked up in that soil. Then when it does rain it will definitely leak out somewhere. I just wanted to touch on that.

Attorney Altman asked, does the board understand what we are voting on? We are ready to vote.

Without further discussion the board voted.

The results of the vote were as follows: 3 affirmative and 4 negative. This will be presented to the White County Commissioners for their action.

Director Weaver stated, we need that commitment in writing.

Attorney Altman stated, yes it will need to be in writing.

Don Pauken stated, I’m not trying to be rude, I was never ever trying to be rude to anybody, but I have a problem and I want to ask a question after I read this statement made by President Charles Anderson at the December 13 zoning meeting. He says so know we have to deal with the fine, we need to wait until after the Commissioners meeting on Monday. Monday was the 20th and at the meeting it was two no’s and one yes. It was turned down, what did the board do or Area Plan do relevant to the fine at that point.

Attorney Altman stated, that is the next thing on our agenda.

Vice President Jay Clawson asked, no other business before this? There are no other rezoning or subdivisions at this time if anyone would like to leave they are welcome too. We are now hearing the violation that the property is still being use to store a dumpster without being properly zoned.

Attorney Altman stated, Diann please present this case and the facts in the matter of this case.

Director Weaver stated, basically the situation originated because the dumpsters were on the property. That was back in November or December of last year. He came to the meeting before the board I believe to appeal the fine. I’m not sure if I’m remembering that right. It was to appeal the fine. The board at that time stated that if you filed a petition to rezone within or before the next meeting for the next meeting that they would waive the fine. That was request was filed and it was denied and the dumpster have never been removed, they have continued there all of this time. They are still there and I do agree with the audience that there has been an increase in the number of dumpsters on the property.

Attorney Altman stated, so it is a violation of the ordinance. It has been expanded the violation.

Director Weaver stated, I believe so from the observation of the site.

Attorney Altman stated, the observation of the site in question and you’ve noticed him to come before us for a hearing on the violation. You have given him a notice of that.

Director Weaver stated, yes.

Attorney Altman stated, that is the purpose of this matter to proceed. Basically you might tell everybody what the violation and the amount of the penalty involved.

Director Weaver stated, Area Plan has passed a policy that states a violation received a $500 fine. The board has the option to raise, lower, or dismiss that fine.

Attorney Altman stated, that is what we are here for now.

Vice President Jay Clawson asked, did we dismiss this fine and did we act on it?

Director Weaver stated, the first time as long as he filed the petition for the next meeting, which he did do, and that petition was denied and the dumpster where never removed.

Vice President Jay Clawson stated, as soon as that he went and re-filed again.

Director Weaver stated, exactly.

Vice President Jay Clawson stated, he has been in the process for 3 or 4 months.

Attorney Altman stated, that is what we are here for.

Director Weaver stated, the violation has been going on since October or November of last year.

Jeff VanWeelden stated, when you asked me at the first meeting I believe it was to remove the containers. The larger boxes, I removed those. Some of the containers there looks like there are more there. There are olds ones that I have swapped with other ones. Some people in the audience tonight had asked me about the containers that were stacked if certain sections of the stack containers if I would remove those and line them up. When I take them out it gives a visual of more containers because of taking them out because there are two or three in one container I took them out and lined them up. There are some older containers I swapped to with newer ones. I would say there are more containers by no means. I did take some out and lined them up as requested by homeowners on Hanawalt.

Attorney Altman stated, you understand that even if you did that it would still be a violation having them there all of this time after the Commissioners told you know on your first request on rezoning.

Jeff VanWeelden stated, so when you appeal it, it doesn’t role with the appeal.

Attorney Altman stated, you understand you pay your money and you take your chances on this to whether you do or you don’t comply then or you wait until the violation is heard. The board may determine that you were in violation this entire time. Then access a penalty for that.

Vice President Jay Clawson asked, is there anything else anyone can say?

Attorney Altman stated, no.

Vice President Jay Clawson stated, does the board want to set what fine…

Attorney Altman stated, it is already set at a $500 fine. The board may increase or decrease without a motion to do either, it would be a $500 fine. That is exactly what it is. You can ask for a motion.

Vice President Jay Clawson stated, we will open it up for discussion among the board. Does anybody have any ideas what they want to do with this? Do we want to leave it at $500 or modify it slightly? Do we want to dismiss it? We dismissed it the first time, it is up to the board, maybe modify it. It doesn’t feel that it is…

Attorney Altman stated, enough or too much either way.

Jeff VanWeelden stated, if that was from you passed on to the Commissioners meeting, if that is approved or denied does that have any grounds with this violation or…

Attorney Altman stated, it is a violation now.

Jeff VanWeelden stated, it is a violation now, it doesn’t matter what the ruling at the Commissioners meeting is.

Attorney Altman stated, I guess the board could determine that it could have a significant, I can’t make that decision.

Vice President Jay Clawson stated, if the Commissioners turn you down, you will have a certain amount of time to get them off and move them back onto the other property.

Dennis Sterrett asked, he was notified March 16?

Director Weaver stated, yes that is the meeting I sent. That was after he had re-filed the request.

Greg Bossaer asked, that wasn’t the first time.

Director Weaver stated, correct.

Vice President Jay Clawson stated, he acted on, he has been pursing the rezoning since he was contacted the first time. He didn’t let it, there has been always some movement towards rezoning since the initial violation.

Greg Bossaer stated, but during that time period.

Vice President Jay Clawson stated, he hasn’t moved them off. I think, I’m not a big finer, but there needs to be some fine I would think half, I mean this is just something I’m throwing out.

Attorney Altman stated, make a motion.

Vice President Jay Clawson stated, $250 and you guys can go from there. We are open for discussion. Greg?

Greg Bossaer stated, I guess I was thinking $500.

Vice President Jay Clawson stated, okay Gary?

Gary Barbour stated, I would agree with Greg.

Director Weaver stated, I believe the March 16 that letter is the third letter that we have informed him that he had a violation.

David Scott stated, there is just one violation.

Director Weaver stated, yes, the North property is where the violation is.

Attorney Altman stated, someone make a motion.

Gary Barbour stated, I make a motion that we fine him $500 fine and 30 days to remove them after the Commissioners vote on Monday.

Greg Bossaer stated, I second it.

Vice President Jay Clawson stated, okay so noted. With a show of hands.

The motion was carried 6 to 1. He is to pay the $500 fine and remove the containers within 30 days after the Commissioners make their determination on Monday.

Jeff VanWeelden asked, do you need that fine tonight.

Director Weaver stated, tomorrow would be fine. The office isn’t open tonight.

Attorney Altman stated the other thing on the agenda would be the Meadowbrook Subdivision. What I have done is, this is the subdivision that had one lot that is sold and a street that goes to that lot. It is essentially right in this area. (Going over a map.) The subdivision was 27 lots and 26 was the only ones with the Meadowbrook Subdivision 2. The developer didn’t put in the roads and he didn’t put in all of the improvements that were required. He didn’t even keep his bond enforce and I have file suit on behalf of the department to get him to do that and the process of doing this I found out he sold the subdivision to another person. They just assumed we vacate the subdivision. This is what is going to happen, I’m proposing to do, but the one lot owner who happens to be serviced by a county road on the North side and a subdivision road on the East side. We are keeping that much of the road to service this lot and anybody that would come through there and keeping this a l lot tract of ground. I don’t have the agreement from the people involved in this and I very much expect that to happen. They will vacate the subdivision exact the people with the other lot.

Dennis Sterrett stated, so those people’s legal description will still say lot 2 or whatever.

Attorney Altman stated, it is lot 27 and they will have that and it will be a dedicated street there, so there will be access through there that someday it could be developed and there would be the appropriate amount of egress/ingress room to be developed. It just seems like the best way to settle it. I’m just waiting for the paperwork to come back. I just wanted to report to the board of the status.

Vice President Jay Clawson stated, no other business before the board.

Director Weaver stated, the attorney’s fees.

Jeff VanWeelden stated, I just want to clarify that I have 30 days after the Commissioners meeting on Monday. I just wanted to make sure. Is there a rule that you can use the straw.

Terry Beasy stated you can use it for limitation of erosion control and it will meet some of rule 5 requirements, but it does very little filtering of contaminates and if there are present contaminates that is not known then you would have to sample from those contaminates and then treat the water accordingly to remove those contaminates to prior entry.

Jeff VanWeelden stated, that corner is dry there now. That a guy was saying that the farmer North of me was having problems and that is why he cut a swell. He said was to drain it off of him and it meets right at the nose of mine property. I’m just trying to think of different ways I can settle the complaints. I didn’t know if they would recognize that as a filtration system if I put a bale around the stone area.

Attorney Altman stated, check with IDEM.

David Scott stated, made motion to approve Attorney’s fees.

Director Weaver stated, the steering committee meets here tomorrow at 5:30. I just wanted to make sure everyone knew, they were late in getting this information out.

The meeting adjourned.

Respectfully submitted,

Donald W. Ward, Secretary

White County Area Plan Commission

Diann Weaver, Director

White County Area Plan Commission