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The White County Area Plan Commission met Tuesday, October 11, 2005, at 7:30 p.m. in the Commissioners’ Meeting Room, Second Floor, County Building, Monticello, Indiana.

Members attending were: Jay Clawson, Gary Barbour, Charles Anderson, David Scott, Charles Mellon, Don Ward, Robert Thomas, and Dennis Sterrett. Also attending were Attorney Altman and Director Weaver.

Visitors Attending were: Terry Beasy, Joe Bilyeu, Glenn Newbold, Bill Pyle, Don Pauken, Michael Bortscheller, Ray ? , Shirley ?, Ronald Kaiser, Elaine Kaiser, Travis Cords, Gene Cords, Kay Cords, Tara Cords, Melanie Green, Ken Green, Ruth Bortscheller, Ingrid Landis. Also attending but not signed in were Dan Peters and Dan Sublette.

The meeting was called to order by President Charles Anderson and roll call was taken. Charles Mellon made a motion to dispense with reading and approve the minutes of the August 8, 2005 and September 12, 2005 meetings. Motion was seconded by Jay Clawson and carried unanimously.


#886 Gene A. & Diana Kay Cords; The property is located on part of Lot 2 in Sublette Subdivision containing 0.940 of an acre, more or less North of Reynolds at 14 E. 375 N. This is being sent back to the Area Plan Commission from the County Commissioners for approval of a commitment.

Violation: None.

Request: They are requesting to rezone from A-1 to B-2.

President Charles Anderson asked, do we have someone here representing this request? Come forwards and state your name.


Diana Cords stated, I’m Diane Cords, property owner.


President Charles Anderson stated, go through again exactly what you want to do with this property out there and the building that you want to build on the property.


Diana Cords stated, sure, we are here to request rezoning of part of property from A-1 to B-2. Our son Travis was given the opportunity to purchase Reynolds Heating and Cooling. He is a White County graduate and he has an Associates Degree in HVAC. He wishes to keep this business here in White County and get back to his hometown and we feel that this is a great

opportunity for him. Also with the possibility of getting in on the ground floor with the Bio-town project in Reynolds now. We came here requesting this only to allow for the operation of the business on our property. We understand that a building can be constructed and we do intend to construct a building on our property. The rezoning was the sole purpose of legally and ethically running the business from our place. I know we have some responses here, there were some concerns. You had a letter from Dorothy Seward, she was concerned about the traffic created on 375 N. and if anyone has been on that road it is a highly, highly traveled road. Right now, at the present time, the operation of our business will add possibly one to two extra box trucks, travel .14 of a mile from 421 to our property, in our opinion that would be maybe twice a week and would be no different than having a Schwan's truck or a UPS truck coming there. Dan Sublette was concerned about the view of the building that we were going to construct, that we are constructing and he has no view of the building where we are locating it from his property. We went to the Commissioners meeting and the Commissioners indicated to him that as it stands right now, we can indeed construct this building on our property with or without his permission. We do not need his permission. In regards to the view we have a nice looking place and we would never ever build anything that was not compatible to the appearance of our home. Our intent would be of course to increase the property value and we would not put up a building that is going to decrease the property value. There is not going to be any storefront, this is for storage only, it is not a retail business. As far as view of buildings, Sid and Helen Sublette will be able to see our building from their property as it stands right now, they can see their own pole barn if they look out the back of their property. They can also look to the East of them, there is an old type of pole building there. Ideally we would like to have constructed this building closer to the back of our property line to the South, but when Sid reestablished the setbacks when it was subdivided, that is not legally possible for us to do right now. Dan brought up a concern about the resale value of his and his parent's property in our opinion that should have no effect on their resale value, but would increase ours. He also voiced a concern about our property permanently being rezoned from A-1 to B-2. We did feel that this was possibly a legitimate complaint and concern, so at the suggestion of the County Commissioners and the Area Planning Commission we did hire our attorney and he created the letter that you have in front of you. It is a letter of commitment which all parties, my son, my husband Gene and myself have agreed to and signed so this is just a review of the facts and you know and answer any questions.


President Charles Anderson asked, do any of the Commissioners have any questions? Do you want to stay up front here for a minute?


Diana Cords stated, not really.


Jay Clawson stated, well I didn’t think the commitment had a statement in there that it would not be a retail business.


Diana Cords stated, the commitment letter does not state that.


Jay Clawson stated, that is the concern that I have. Is this a pole type building?


Gene Cords stated, it will be a pole type building.


President Charles Anderson asked, but right now you do not plan to sell anything out of there?


Diana Cords stated, absolutely not, it is for storage only for the HVAC service.


President Charles Anderson asked, is the Commissioners wanted that added to this commitment you wouldn’t have any problem with adding that to it.


Diana Cords stated, we would definitely add that.


Attorney Altman stated, for the record your name.


Gene Cords stated, I’m Gene Cords.


President Charles Anderson asked, do the Commissioners have any more questions?


Discussion among the board members.


President Charles Anderson asked, are there anymore questions?


Director Weaver stated, we did receive another letter at last months meeting that I have sent a copy to all of the board members.


President Charles Anderson stated, that was from Dorothy Seward.


Director Weaver stated, that was the second letter from her.


President Charles Anderson asked, are there any other questions.


Jay Clawson stated, we were just talking about the heating and air condition has been around the county at several other places than this. We have talked to neighbors, talked to Murray’s out on 39, talked to Mike Creigh and he didn’t have any problems with that type of business like late at night. You really don’t know that they are there other than being with some one with a large family.


President Charles Anderson asked, do we have anyone who wants to speak?


Attorney Altman stated, let me read the letter first and then we can go ahead and have people who are here. (He proceeded to read the letter from Dorothy into the record, copy of letter is in the file.)


President Charles Anderson asked, is there anyone here who would like to have any questions about this request?


Dan Sublette stated, I’m Dan Sublette. I’m the property owner right next to Gene Cords. We know that the Cords could build the buildings and stuff and we can’t stop that, I don’t understand why that they would have to switch it from A-1 to B-2 to be able to do that.


President Charles Anderson stated, they don’t have to, to build a building. They have to switch it to run the business out of it to be legal with the business.


Dan Sublette stated, this letter of commitment, I would see if you would be able to do that if you had a community that isn’t really coming forwards and saying hey we don’t want this and they are the only ones coming up. Not like a subdivision to want to change something. I could see that you guys would request something like that well it is going to switch back to what it use to be, but when you have both people on both sides of the property saying that they don’t want this. I would say that this commitment doesn’t mean anything to us. I mean it is not like we are going to set around for 5 or 6 years and see this business go belly up and hopefully it doesn’t, but to me it doesn’t make sense. I don’t even know why these commitments even got started.


President Charles Anderson asked, has far as?


Dan Sublette stated, as far as you know, I’m sorry we don’t want to put a business here, but we are going to give you a commitment saying that after we are done with it and you’ve go to live with this business, then we will switch it back over. I just don’t understand why that would be all right to do something like that. My brothers and my father built that property and we put those houses there and that is the way we would like to keep it. When I was talking about the view of the building no I don’t have a view of the building because I live on the West side of them, but my mother and father do and they live down in the valley further on the East side. So I mean when they look back up to their old house that is what they are going to see. Who is to say that there wouldn’t be stuff sat out and you know, if it is a business you can do almost anything you want. That is why we are voicing our opinion.


President Charles Anderson asked, do any of the Commissioners want to respond to Dan?

As far as the commitment we really didn’t ask for it, we said something at one meeting, I think this commitment was sent back from the Commissioners.


Dan Sublette stated, I don’t understand why the Commissioners would want a commitment if there are people that are voicing their opinion that they don’t want the business.


President Charles Anderson stated, well because they are thinking that this person who is running a small business in a small area really isn’t going to effect that many people, I assume, I don’t know.


Dan Sublette stated, does the commitment make it all right.


David Scott stated, without the commitment anything that falls under a B-2 would be allowed there. With the commitment the only thing allowed would be the plumbing and heating. Right.


President Charles Anderson stated, with no retail store in there, if they try to do a retail store if they put that in the commitment that would come back on them too.


Jay Clawson stated, there are actually several businesses that are home based that may be on the old book that you might actually ran without evening having a business, a service type business where you really aren’t doing any retail business.


Director Weaver stated, I don’t know what the old book had either.


Jay Clawson stated, I’m sure there are some business you can run.


President Charles Anderson stated, main reason for a commitment is to try to get all of the parties in the area to be agreeable on it, but evidently a commitment is not going to do that in this case.


Dan Sublette stated, I see what with starting a business like they were saying, this is a new business for him and so forth, I would see if, it was my business I would run it a little smaller. I don’t think I would build, I would rent some property maybe in Reynolds or something, a storage with plenty of storage and he can keep his stuff there until he builds the business up and then never knows where it goes from there. Why put it at your house, I don’t live at my restaurant, but I’m there most of the time and I like coming home and having peace and quite and I don’t live in town. Just see where it goes and why build a building when you can rent something and if something goes down chuck the whole thing and get out of your lease and not stuff with a big piece of property.


President Charles Anderson stated, that is pretty much personal.


Dan Sublette stated, well that is true.


Diane Cords stated, that is personal and he is getting into our personal business.


Dan Sublette stated, I’m just saying as a business owner, I’ve ran a business before, I mean to me that is the smart way to do it.


President Charles Anderson stated, we have a question back here.


Gene Cords stated, can I respond. The issue is and I have not brought this up, I’ve tried to be very civil when Sublette’s Ribs began it began in Dan’s driveway. He was cooking on the weekends and I didn’t say anything to anybody, in fact I was thrilled for Dan, I knew he worked at Monon Trailer for a number of years because I had, I was thrilled he an opportunity to do something. I’ve never question what Dan was doing as a business man and the things he was doing and I would appreciate from a personal aspect it is my responsibility, it is going to be my indebtedness not Dan’s or any building facility.


President Charles Anderson stated, we understand that too, and we are getting a little bit away from where we should be. Anybody else have anything? Commissioners have any other questions.


Charles Mellon stated, I haven’t been on the board as long as some of the others, and I may not know all of the rules, but I don’t know why it ever came back to the Area Plan Commission because we voted it down 6 to 3. I would like to know the answer to that.


Attorney Altman stated, it is a simple answer. The County Commissioners ask them to submit this based on a commitment and the County Commissioners want us to review it Charlie. To give them a recommendation as to whether it is appropriate, the commitment and that is. That’s the best I can give you.


President Charles Anderson stated, the County Commissioners have the last say on this and we really only give a recommendation.


Charles Mellon stated, a vote like that I’ve never seen the Commissioners turn it down to what the Area Plan.


President Charles Anderson stated, oh we’ve gotten them back before.


Several talking at once.


Attorney Altman stated, basically what the board has to do is look at the commitment and give the Commissioners a recommendation based on that as I understand is what they want this board to do.


President Charles Anderson stated, I think that is perfectly legal for them to ask for this.


Charles Mellon asked, is our old vote going back to the Commissioners then?


Attorney Altman stated, yes it is, oh yes, it will go back with a 6 no vote and a 3 yes vote recommendation. That still stands. It is just to the commitment.


Dennis Sterrett stated, how was that again.


President Charles Anderson stated, I don’t quite understand that one.


Attorney Altman stated, the vote was originally 6 to 3. 6 no votes and 3 yes votes.


President Charles Anderson stated, so we are not voting on this again at all?


Attorney Altman stated, we are voting just on the commitment, just the commitment, that is just the new thing here.


Director Weaver stated, that is all that has been referred back to you is the commitment.


President Charles Anderson stated, well looks like you are going to have to settle this at the Commissioner’s meeting.


Attorney Altman stated, I agree it is back to the Commissioners.


Charles Mellon stated, so we can vote the commitment down.


Attorney Altman stated, yes.


President Charles Anderson stated, we have stated that we stated we would like in this commitment that it not be a retail business.


Attorney Altman stated, as I understand it, they would amend it to add it not be a retail business on site. I think I hear that.


Without further discussion the board voted.


Attorney Altman stated, since we do not have a ballot, please raise your hand and I will count. Okay it is 5 yes and 3 no’s.


President Charles Anderson stated, so it still goes back to the Commissioners with a no recommendation.


Attorney Altman stated, yes.


President Charles Anderson stated, so all parties involved need to be at the next Commissioners meeting.


Attorney Altman asked, when will that be Diann?


Director Weaver stated, Monday morning.



#889 Newbold & Son Oldsmobile, Inc., Owner; Glenn E. Newbold Sr., Applicant; The property is located on 36’ off the South side of Lot 24 and all of Lot 26 except 25’ off the South side on Market Street in the Original Plat located in the Town of Monon on the West side of Market Street between 314 & 324 N. Market Street

Violation: None

Request: They are requesting to rezone from B-1 to B-2.

President Charles Anderson asked, do we have someone here representing this request?


Dan Peters stated, I’m Dan Peters and Glenn is my stepfather and again I would like to discuss some of the happenings on the request for rezoning. It is applies to me. Essentially what has happened is Glenn Newbold obviously runs a car dealership there in Monon. I recently had started a company called ARP Trailer services and my primary function as far as the business is to buy, sell, lease and finance semi trailers. Over the years I have spend a number of years with Wabash National about 18 ½ years and then we ended going with a privately held firm for about another 1 ½ on the leasing side. Primary my expertise has been dealing with large National accounts and what ARP Trailer services does is buys trailers in groups of 50 to 250 around the country whether it be Detroit, Los Angeles, etc. and then sells those to large retail accounts again through out the county. In applying for a dealers license you have to meet certain criteria and one of those is to have and event though you may not have a retail outlet. You have to have a set property set aside that will accommodate a number, which is 10, of the product of what you are selling. So the approach was Glenn has property in Monon, and obviously he is family. It is just like why don't we just get this property rezoned and that would meet the requirements of the dealers license for ARP properties. He has also afforded me an office out of Monon. There would be absolutely no semi trailers in Monon, Indiana. It is just a requirement that the State has asked of me in applying for a Dealers License. That’s where we are at today.


President Charles Anderson asked, do any of the commissioners have any questions?


Director Weaver stated, I might add that this license that he applied for goes through our office and I have to sign it that they are properly zoned before he can submit it to the State for the license.


Dan Peters stated, that is correct.


President Charles Anderson asked, do we have anybody in the audience with any questions about that request?


Dan Peters stated, I think Glenn has talked to several people and I have as well and they understand the dealer’s license, it is basically a paperwork issue. I don’t think anyone has had a problem with it that we are aware of.


President Charles Anderson stated, you are rezoning from a B-1 to a B-2 is what you are actually rezoning too.


Dan Peters stated, that is correct.


Director Weaver stated, yes.


President Charles Anderson asked, do any of the Commissioners have any questions, or anybody in the audience?


Several talking at once.


Without further discussion the board voted.


The results of the vote were as follows: 8 affirmative and 0 negative. This will be presented to the Town of Monon for their action.


#890 Kenneth R. & Melanie L. Green; The property is 5.000 acres, more or less North of Monticello at 5207 E. Bay Front Court.

Violation: The buildings are already being used for boat storage.

Request: They are requesting to rezone from A-1 to B-2.

President Charles Anderson asked, is there anyone here representing this request.

Melanie Green stated, I’m Melanie Green and Kenneth and I are the property owners. We’ve just purchase this property 1 year ago and the boat storage was in place when we bought it, so we were kind of caught off guard with it being zoned improperly and need to get that taken care of.

Some one from the audience asked, could you please speak so we can hear? We are here for this.

President Charles Anderson stated, she said they purchased the property and it was already being used as boat storage and they didn’t realize it at first and..

Melanie Green stated, now I’m just trying to get it taken care of.

President Charles Anderson stated, she is trying to get into compliance with what it should be. Do the Commissioners have any questions?

Jay Clawson asked, how long was it boat storage before you bought it?

Melanie Green stated, the two buildings that are on the 5 acres have been there for 6 years and one other building has been there for 8 years.

Director Weaver stated, we issued permits for all of these buildings, I believe and they were issued for agriculture use, not for business use.

President Charles Anderson stated, and that was whenever they were built 5 to 8 years ago.

Director Weaver stated, one was built in 1995, 1998, and 1999.

President Charles Anderson asked, do any other Commissioners have any questions?

Jay Clawson stated, egress and ingress do you have to go through the whole subdivision?

Melanie Green stated, we own the property that adjoins the 2.8. This 5 acres that we are talking about rezoning butt, you drive down 2.8 to Bayfront and up through the mobile home park.

Jay Clawson stated, to haul boats in and out you have got to go through the Subdivision.

Melanie Green stated, right.

Jay Clawson asked, you don’t have a road directly, do you have access to put a road?

Melanie Green stated, yes we do.

Jay Clawson stated, so if we rezoned this, instead of having a lot of traffic through the subdivision.

Melanie Green stated, we do own up to the road and would like to put in a gravel lane back there because like I said we own the mobile home park that we drive up through with the boats too.

Jay Clawson stated, I think that is probably one of the things that people who are here are looking at and in reviewing this I saw that if you can put a road like what they ask state that it is a boat storage or whatever. Make a commitment to us that it is just going to be I don’t think it is a great place for retail, it is a good place for a boat storage but it is not a great place for a retail because the road accessing. If they could have a commitment drawn up that they are going to put a road in, again we are doing the commitment, but I think it needs to have its own road out to the main road.

Melanie Green stated, 2.8.

Jay Clawson stated, 2.8. I’m not trying to speak for the homeowners because I haven’t spoke to them, but I think that is probably, you could probably store close to 100 boats there.

Melanie Green stated, no, we store 40.

Jay Clawson stated, I didn’t know how many.

President Charles Anderson stated, with it being zoned business could you still put trailers in there.

Director Weaver stated, a mobile home park, the trailers are actually on a different track.

President Charles Anderson stated, a different tract, but she is rezoning it isn’t there a certain number like 4 trailers you can put in there I thought that might be another concern they might have.

Melanie Green stated, in the field, is that where you are talking about. If there is a zoning that is more appropriate for just boat storage that is all we are using it for.

President Charles Anderson stated, we would want a commitment that they are not going to put trailer park there.

Director Weaver stated, under our current ordinance a mobile home park can only go in an R-4.

President Charles Anderson stated, R-4, do you have anything else you would like to say?

Is there anyone in the audience that wants to speak?

Attorney Altman stated, before we do that there is a letter here that I would like to read into the record. (proceeded to read letter into the record from James Baldwin) Is there anything else that needs to be read into the record?

Director Weaver stated, no.

President Charles Anderson stated, come forward and state your name.

Ruth Bortscheller stated, I’m Ruth Bortscheller. I live down there. Are you talking about where the sunflowers were. What are you going to do with that property?

Ken Green stated, boat storage. The current building that we store you boat in now.

Ruth Bortscheller stated, the current buildings are in violation.

Ken Green stated, yes.

Ruth Bortscheller stated, you are saying that you are going to put in more.

Melanie Green stated, we would like too.

Ken Green stated, we would like to someday just for the strict purpose of boat storage only.

Ruth Bortscheller asked, what happens to the 3 trees that were planted where you are saying you are coming off of road 28.

Ken Green stated, they are just for landscaping.

Ruth Bortscheller stated, I would like to say and I think I speak for a lot of people on my road that were too old to come. We don’t want anymore boat traffic down that road if they can put in writing that they will come in directly off of 28 okay. I’m sorry to see that they are in violation and how property is sold on that road I could see how they would not know they were in violation. I do feel truthfully and honestly that we on East Bay front court can not handle any more boat traffic especially you heard them say and admit that they are going to put up more buildings. We already have 3 buildings up coming down 28 E. Bayfront Court through the trailer court into these.

President Charles Anderson stated, but if they could bring in a road from a different area that would satisfy you.

Ruth Bortscheller stated, just don’t come down the front of my house because we are getting older our road is mostly 70 and 90 year old people and we are having enough trouble to dodge of boats.

President Charles Anderson asked, do we have anybody else that wants to say anything?

Ingrid Landis stated, I’m Ingrid Landis. I wasn’t aware of this until one of my neighbors called and asked me to attend this meeting. As a property owner I thought I was suppose to be notified.

Director Weaver asked, are you an adjacent property owner?

Ingrid Landis stated, I live right across the street. I live next door to them.

Director Weaver stated, well the mobile home park is not the property being rezoned.

President Charles Anderson stated, it is the 3 buildings.

Ingrid Landis stated, that is still adjacent.

Director Weaver stated, if you are on the water by the mobile home park you would not be considered an adjacent property owner.

Ingrid Landis stated, I drive through that area everyday as do all of these people and I would have thought we would have got something in writing telling us what is going on over there.

Director Weaver stated, not if you are not an adjacent property owner. We only notified the adjacent property owners. The sign was posted on Lake Rd 28.

Ingrid Landis stated, well it wasn’t easily seen until just recently and the other thing the sign that we did see at first was a sign advertising pole barns, so I’m wondering if their intentions right now as soon as they get this rezoned to immediately put up another building.

Director Weaver stated, I can answer that, they’ve already applied for a permit.

Ingrid Landis stated, okay why didn’t they…

Director Weaver stated, that is how discovered that they were not properly zoned.

Ingrid Landis stated, so their intention is to make it even busier by putting in another building. How many more buildings do they actually want to put in? Is this the first of one, two or.

President Charles Anderson asked, do you want to ask them directly?

Ken Green stated, we have no idea.

Ingrid Landis stated, you could be getting boats from all over the lake.

Ken Green stated, if having a road it will satisfy everyone needs and make everyone happy, that is fine with us, more than happy to do it.

President Charles Anderson stated, a lot of your problem would be the traffic.

Ken Green stated, I don’t want the traffic down by our house either.

Ingrid Landis stated, yes the road is a mess right now in front of our house. Another thing is if you zone us to B-1 what else are we going to allow them to do.

President Charles Anderson stated, we could restrict them to just boat storage and come back to us again if he wanted to do something else in that area.

Attorney Altman stated, it is a B-2.

Ingrid Landis asked, okay what does B-2 do exactly?

President Charles Anderson stated, boat storage if that is what they will commit to only.

Ingrid Landis asked, what else is allowable with a B-2?

Director Weaver stated, there is a wide range of things.

Ingrid Landis stated, okay there is a business being run out of those buildings, there is a guy who restores cars there.

Ken Green stated, one of our tenants rents some space that he uses as his garage and the cars that he restores is his own personal 38 coupe. He doesn’t do it for money, he doesn’t, if you are talking about Rich Law, as far as I’ve been there he has never worked on any body else’s vehicles, but his own.

Ingrid Landis stated, well then he has several then doesn’t he.

Ken Green stated, he has his car and camper.

Ingrid Landis stated, that is not how I understand it, but then also you are renting to him and he is renting this. What is to stop you from renting to somebody else one of these buildings.

Ken Green stated, he is using it as a garage space and that was something else that was established before we even bought the property.

Melanie Green stated, the building she is referring to isn’t a part of the rezoning.

President Charles Anderson stated, it is where.

Melanie Green stated, it is in the Mobile home park property and it is for the use of the park residence. So it is not a part of this.

President Charles Anderson stated, so you are renting it as a part of garage….

Melanie Green stated, there is a garage spot in there.

President Charles Anderson stated, so this is not on this.

Melanie Green stated, when I talked to Diann that wasn’t one that needed to be rezoned.

Director Weaver stated, I wasn’t aware that there was a car restoration in there.

Melanie Green stated, it is not, it is a guy that has his own old cars.

President Charles Anderson stated, now you are getting into something for the court system if you can prove that is what he is using it for a business and that is something that we can’t prove here. We are getting away. How would you feel Ingrid if we made them get a commitment where it would be just boat storage and a new road to come in and service it the boat storage.

Ruth Bortscheller asked, where would the new road come from?

Don Ward stated, 28.

Ruth Bortscheller stated, I think I would like to see that in writing.

President Charles Anderson stated, that is what it would be in writing.

Ingrid Landis stated, well then what I would like to see added to that then would be if and when they do put that road in that they would cease using our road to use back and forth for boat storage.

Attorney Altman stated, so it would be the exclusive use.

Ingrid Landis stated, exclusive use.

Jay Clawson stated, I have a question. With them wanting to go higher density on this 5 acres, do we have legal rights to ask for a drainage plan on this because this ground is higher than all of the area that goes down? If they are putting in 4 or 5 more buildings and covering that much area is that going to create a run off that is going to affect everyone down stream.

Melanie Green stated, the building plan folks told me to go next door I don’t know the name of the office, but I did check on the drainage and we are not at the square footage that drainage would need to be an issue.

Director Weaver stated, that did not include the drive.

Melanie Green stated, she ask if it was gravel or pavement and we are putting gravel in front of the building.

Director Weaver stated, that was for the building itself, not including the drive.

Melanie Green stated, well I asked her because I wanted permission to put in the road because we wanted that anyway and she said to go talk to someone at the County garage to get permission to connect off of the road.

Director Weaver stated, that goes towards that square footage also doesn’t it Denny?

Dennis Sterrett stated, yes.

Ingrid Landis stated, I’m aware that there is a water problem next tot he property next to it, the farm field. They constantly have water setting in the middle of the field when we have rain.

Attorney Altman stated, but does this property have drainage problems? The 5 acres?

Ingrid Landis stated, they are setting up high than us.

President Charles Anderson stated, so it has to drain off.

Attorney Altman stated, Jay I don’t think you have a problem with making a request to have that reviewed and approved by the drainage board before they do in fact approve it.

Jay Clawson stated, with just the was it sets now with a few buildings and maybe a gravel drive if they build or put as many buildings as they can on that, that creates a hole different situation with the 5 acres. Then you have no absorption and the whole thing and you would have to have some kind of drainage plan. I just like to see something in place.

Several talking at once.

Jay Clawson stated, so the things that we need from them is a commitment that the B-2 is going to be exclusively for boat storage, have an improved road that is going to be 2.8, Lake Rd 28 East and egress/ingress for this commercial lot, the drainage board review this 5 acres and the plans for expansion.

President Charles Anderson stated, type of commitment on how many buildings to state on this or do you want that ride.

Jay Clawson stated, go with whatever setbacks and you have certain setbacks that you can put on.

Director Weaver asked, right and I’m going to ask on the drive, are we going to give them a time frame how soon it has to be done?

Don Ward stated, probably one year.

Ingrid Landis stated, also I want to know if they are going to add how many buildings or where are they going to start? Are they going to get as close to the road as possible or stay back so it is not unsightly when you come in to the neighborhood.

President Charles Anderson stated, we are going to have to have this brought back to us anyway. So could you draw up a plan where you want to put that road and go to the drainage board.

Melanie Green stated, my question for the drainage is when I applied for the building permit they sent me to drainage, I don’t understand how the drainage would affect the zoning more than each building plan, building permit? I mean we have to get approval. We can’t just when it is rezoned put up 15 buildings, you still have to get a building permit. That I think.

President Charles Anderson stated, I think your building permit, but if you put another road in there then.

Melanie Green stated, well what I’m saying is making the drainage a stipulation for the zoning doesn’t make sense more than attaching that to each building permit that we get when we do building. At this point we have currently buildings and we have plans to put up one building.

Jay Clawson stated, it makes a lot of difference that is not zoned and you are going to turn it into a commercial use and it is on a high ground than the area around it that can greatly affect it. That is the problems that we have had in other places where they didn’t control those kind of things and then you have everyone else water. You water is in their crawl space and your water is washing out their driveway and then it becomes our problems because they are griping at us because we let the development happen. That is a reasonable thing I would like to see.

If you are not willing to do that, we will look at your property from that standpoint. We could either say yes or no.

Don Ward stated, I think what she is saying is that every time that they would come in for a building permit they have to have a drainage plan.

Melanie Green stated, so they would deny it at that point, and that was the point I was trying to make.

Jay Clawson stated, when ever we do a new subdivision on a new construction, I mean they have to have it done there, and we’ve done subdivision on less land than this 5 acres that have to have them anyway. I just figured you know, if it was an acres lot that you can only put two buildings on it, it doesn’t have as much impact, but you’ve got 5 acres that you can put I don’t know 8 or 10 buildings on it.

Attorney Altman stated, Jay what you need to do is make that in a form of a motion.

Jay Clawson stated, I don’t know about the drainage. If you go before the drainage board at their meeting and show that, they may ask for more or they might just waive it and say they’ve looked at the property and it is going to be okay. That is one of the things I want to see at the next meeting. That they show their plans to the drainage board to make sure it is okay.

President Charles Anderson asked, as far as plans, do you want that in a form of a new survey of it with that on there, or just.

Jay Clawson asked, do you have a survey of the property now?

Melanie Green stated, I just have the GIS picture, I don’t have a survey.

Director Weaver stated, I did provide you a copy of that.

Jay Clawson stated, I don’t know what the drainage board asks for, I’m not up on that protocol when they come to you.

Ingrid Landis stated, just to mention one thing, there is a creek that runs down below that with a culvert that goes on to my property, it is a bridge, not really a bridge, but a culvert. There is water that does flow from where they are talking about.

Melanie Green asked, are with the drainage, I stopped at your office and they said it was all right.

Dennis Sterrett stated, yeah, but I didn’t know you were building a road.

President Charles Anderson stated, they didn’t either.

Melanie Green stated, I asked your office how to do that and they told me to go to the County garage.

Dennis Sterrett stated, you mean an entrance.

Melanie Green stated, an entrance, I think it is even on there. There is a dotted line on the picture and that was.

President Charles Anderson asked, is that where you were wanting to put it?

Melanie Green stated, yes that is where we wanted to put it.

President Charles Anderson asked, do you want to show that to Ingrid too.

Several talking at once.

Attorney Altman stated, if you want to talk you have to come to the mic and you can not interrupt.

Ruth Bortscheller stated, I think everyone in the back row should have access to see this picture and someone explain this because we are here for this. My other question is are you voting just on these buildings that are up right now for the violation to change from A-1 to B-2 or are you looking all together this sunflower field.

President Charles Anderson stated, we are trying to do it all at once.

Jay Clawson stated, we are doing it all at once. We are going to table this tonight until they get their commitment done.

Several talking at once.

Ruth Bortscheller stated, I want to know why I’m not on this map, I have been here since 1944.

President Charles Anderson stated, it must be an old map.

Several talking at once.

President Charles Anderson stated, what we want to do is bring it back to the next meeting.

Jay Clawson stated, I move that we table this proposal and that we ask Mr. & Mrs. Green to bring back a commitment that this be zoned strictly for B-2 for boat storage only, that they have and make a commitment to build a new gravel road to crushed stone road to Lake Road 28 East and that they have a drainage release from the Drainage Board that their expansion is not going to be harmful to the neighbors.

Ingrid Landis stated, add to that when the road is built they will use that exclusively for the boat storage, they wont be using Bayfront road.

President Charles Anderson stated, if they bring them in they are going to try to do that, but if they get somebody that doesn’t know that and they bring it in that way.

Ingrid Landis stated, they bring the boats in and out.

President Charles Anderson stated, if they bring them in and out.

Ken Green stated, we bring in most of the boats and we do have some customers that do bring their boats to us and we will send a letter who stores with us asking them to use the new gravel road.

Jay Clawson stated, if you can even make up a sign saying Green’s storage back here. That might help people.

Ken Green stated, we bought the property, it is a big investment for us we are not going to do anything to lower the property values there, we plan on staying there until we retire.

President Charles Anderson stated, I think your neighbors want to work with you to. We are not getting a lot of fight out of them about not doing it.

Ken Green stated, as far as everybody in the neighborhood not getting notified we just didn’t know we had to.

President Charles Anderson stated, the other property that Ingrid is next to actually wasn’t in this zoning and that is why you didn’t get notified.

Ingrid Landis stated, well that was difficult for me to understand because I just was just hearing and seeing you people not long ago when I had a variance on Dewey Street, I had to contact all the people around me. I just assumed in my neighborhood that we had to do the same thing when you are trying to do some changes.

Don Ward stated, I will second that.

President Charles Anderson stated, his motion is seconded and passed. This is tabled until November.

Dennis Sterrett asked, is the 5 acres just this top part, not down here.

Director Weaver stated, yes.

President Charles Anderson stated, so next on the agenda would be Business and anybody here can leave. It will be at the next meeting. You will not be notified again.

Director Weaver stated, November 14 at 7:30 p.m.

President Charles Anderson stated, so next on the agenda would be Business and you have Meadowbrook.

Attorney Altman stated, I have not heard a thing on Meadowbrook from anybody since last time. So I really don’t have anything to say, I’m assuming that they are doing what they said and trying to make it into subdivision.

Director Weaver stated, do you want to up date them on Rangeline Properties.

Attorney Altman stated, on Rangeline Properties I have file suit in Superior Court on October 3, violation to failure to remove their containers off of the property that wasn’t rezoned. I’ve heard nothing as of yet, but I fully expect that I will.

Several talking at once.


The meeting adjourned.

Respectfully submitted,

Donald W. Ward, Secretary

White County Area Plan Commission

Diann Weaver, Director

White County Area Plan Commission