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The White County Area Plan Commission met Monday, December 12, 2005, at 7:30 p.m. in the Commissioners’ Meeting Room, Second Floor, County Building, Monticello, Indiana.

Members attending were: Jay Clawson, Gary Barbour, Charles Anderson, David Scott, Charles Mellon, Donald W. Ward, Gregory Bossaer, Dennis Sterrett. Also attending were Attorney Altman and Director Weaver.

Visitors Attending were: Herb Parrish, Ingrid Landis, Tom Burke, Daniel Alvarez, Melanie Green, Ken Green, Bill Pyle, Maureen Law, Richard Law, Loretta Loy, Don Pauken, Mike Bortscheller, Ruth Bortscheller, Rick Disinger, Sadona Disinger, Margaret Martin, Robert Kinser, Floyd L. England, Dick Bertram, Judy Bertram, Terri Raines, John Raines, Myron Barnes, Tom Parsley, R. Joe Roach, Kenneth Boston, Elaine Kaiser, Ron Kaiser, and Dave Jordan.

The meeting was called to order by President Charles Anderson and roll call was taken. Don Ward made a motion to dispense with reading and approve the minutes of the November 14, 2005 meeting. Motion was seconded by Charles Mellon and carried unanimously. Jay Clawson made a motion to dispense with reading and approve the Memoranda of the Executive Session on November 14, 2005 meeting. Motion was seconded by Charles Mellon and carried unanimously.


#890 Kenneth R. & Melanie L. Green; The property is 5.000 acres, more or less North of Monticello at 5207 E. Bay Front Court. Tabled from the October 11, 2005 meeting.

Violation: The buildings are already being used for boat storage.

Request: They are requesting to rezone from A-1 to B-2.

President Charles Anderson asked, do we have anyone here representing this request?

Melanie Green stated, Melanie Green.

President Charles Anderson stated, at the last meeting we had several things we needed you to do. Did you meet with the other landowners?

Melanie Green stated, yes I did. Following that meeting I was able to complete our, I’m just going to go through what we have done since the meeting.

President Charles Anderson stated, okay.

Melanie Green stated, following the last meeting we were able to complete our drainage plan with Milligan surveying and that was submitted in time for the last drainage board meeting. The engineer reviewed that plan and disagreed with it and just filing that two days later we went back to Milligan and they revised the plan and it now includes a 2’ deep drainage pond or ditch. That has been resubmitted for the next meeting of the drainage board. I was waiting because the neighbors who were present at the last meeting wanted to be able to see that drainage plan so I waited go send them an information letter until I had the first drainage information in. Given the time of the year I sent them a letter including every piece of detail from the very beginning up until right before our meeting and offered for them to give me a call in the evening given most people live out of town. Then also offered for last Saturday a meeting at my home, which Ellis, Laws, Bortscheller, and Loy attended and no addition concerns were brought up at that meeting and I didn’t get any phone calls of people that I sent the letter to with additional questions. I was forwarded information that Ruth Bortscheller has sent to neighbors and it included a letter from David Wolf and in it he has concerns about the B-2 zoning. I think the important thing to note is at the bottom where he says as far as winter boat storage goes I don’t have a real problem with the restricted use and that is included in our commitment letter to just to restrict to that use. He indicates if you can do something like a commitment letter and we have already done that. Ruth also included a business card that we had sent her with her last boat contract called Complete Detail and that is a business that we have owned for years. Where we do boat detailing and winterizing for the people who store with us. That wintering and boat detailing wasn’t done on our property this year. It was done where it has always been done. I think that addresses that. There is a question about a cement floor and that is something I don’t know about as far as Diann and commercial use of our buildings, so. We sent the letter, we sent it to all of the people who don’t live on our street and I personally delivered it to all of the people that do live on our street. Most of the people didn’t seem to have a problem and we are kind of not understanding what the whole problem was. That was specifically voiced by most of the people who live on Lazy Acres that was actually verbalized. I want to make sure I’ve got everything. Ruth at the meeting Saturday did make known just in general and not reality to our business but she wanted it on the record that our road, all though it is County maintained or it is a County owned road, isn’t well maintained. She wanted that on the record for the Commissioners to hear, other than that she didn’t have any concerns related to our business because we are going to put the lane in that won’t concern Bay Front Court. That is all of the updating I have.

President Charles Anderson stated, anybody in the audience, now we don’t want a whole lot of rehashing. Anybody in the audience want to speak on this at all right now?

Melanie Green stated, I did re-submit the commitment letter to Diann and I think she forwarded it to the attorney. That included the additional stipulations from the meeting. I want to review those real quick. A-1 to B-2 will only be used for vehicle storage, water vehicle detailing, and winterizing. It was more specific in this one to include the detailing and winterization that we do for the storage customers that we have. Those are only related to storage. We agreed to install and maintain a private driveway entering the property from Lake road 28 E for the vehicle storage customers and it will be of single lane and crushed stone approximately 10’ wide. To be installed within one year and a sign will be installed near Lake Rd 28 E indicating that the boat storage traffic is to use that road. At the last meeting there was concern of looping from that road down through our park on to Bay Front court. Diann shared with us that B-2 property has to be divided any way from Residential. So in here I indicated that we would install a barrier at the end of the proposed storage driveway to prevent traffic flow from entering the property via that driveway and exiting to Bay Front Court and vice-versa in the other direction. We agreed to obtain and comply with a drainage plan and they have the first and the updated waiting now for the next drainage meeting. Any future structural additions to the property would require an updated drainage plan. We agreed to comply with all to address how many buildings we would put on the property. We don’t know. We included one extra building in the drainage plan. It isn’t drawn in put the numbers indicate how much space that a retention pond would hold and how much we are using something like 2,000 square feet and we are only doing 1,000 square feet or something like that.

President Charles Anderson asked, so it has one additional building besides the one you are building?

Melanie Green stated, it was addressed in the drainage. So we agreed to comply with all White County ordinance with respect to any future property improvements, such as zoning and setbacks restrictions and drainage. If the case arises to construct an additional building they would be built at the same proximity to the current building. We talked verbally at the last meeting that we don’t want to build out by 28 E just in proximity of where the current buildings are, the same as in the last meeting.

President Charles Anderson stated, if we vote on this today, this would be contingent on the drainage plan being accepted. How would we state that the drainage isn’t there.

Attorney Altman stated, that is right it would have to be contingent upon the approval of the drainage plan.

Melanie Green stated, right and that is how I wrote it, that we agree and obtain and comply with the drainage plan. So if it is not approved we will continue to address that.

President Charles Anderson asked, do we have anyone here in the audience that wants to make a statement about this request? We already know about this.

Tom Burke stated, I don’t want to be here any longer than you do either. I appreciate you taking an evening away from Monday night football here. I made some, I have some handouts here that I would like.

President Charles Anderson asked, what does it pertain to?

Tom Burke stated, they are pertaining to the letter that was sent, the filing, explanations of the business, what is happening, the commitment letter, I don’t know if you have seen this. I received these Friday morning at my home and what it is, is basically Melanie’s request. I have a couple of concerns. These are the documents sent by them to us. I have a couple of concerns. First of all if you go to page 2 of this obviously you can see when it was mailed, that isn’t important. The letter that she sent, and we appreciate it, basically in her letter it states that on item A she is requesting zoning for storage purposes only. Then item B she addresses the zoning for additional buildings, I would prefer to see a specific number. The big thing that I want to point out here is in the written commitment item C and let me read this so it goes on record. Conditions upon rezoning on the above described real estate A-1 to B-2 the owners agree to restrict usage of said real estate to the following use: vehicle storage, water vehicle detailing, and winterizing. Basically what we are going to have is a commercial entity inside the subdivision with 37 homes surrounded by it. Also item 4 is from David Wolf and I encourage you all to read this letter from Mr. Wolf, it is a really good letter, and he states basically objecting to this. His last sentencing is I’m totally opposed to rezoning it to B-2 and he references the legal description of

B-2 general business districts, includes adult entertainment, and you can all read it. So it is all there, that is item 4. The third enclosure is I copy which I think you have of the business that is currently being operated out of there. Then I wanted to point out somethings because her letter is really contradictory to us saying originally it was storage. Now they want to file to include storage vehicles, water vehicle detailing, and winterizing which is pretty much a broad category and you can do anything you want there it appears. I have included in there a copy since there is going to be detailing and some hazardous materials, possibly stripping to clean boats, I have included a copy from IDEM from their rules and regulations what these waste are. How they are to be handled. Then the last page, the last 2 pages, this is from the Indiana Statues, Indiana Codes on preservation of unreasonable pollute against public interest. Also the last page shows unlawful discharge of materials in navigable waterway. So if there are stripping agents, cleaning agents, things like that back there in the middle of subdivision I think, I really think it needs to be thought out a little bit more thorough. Any questions for me?

President Charles Anderson asked, do you ever clean your boat at home or detail your own boat at home?

Tom Burke stated, I sure do, but I don’t do 35 or 40 of them.

President Charles Anderson stated, if a person is going to run a business they are going to try their best to keep it clean, you can nip tuck anything to death. I think you are beginning to do that.

Tom Burke stated, I realize that, but.

President Charles Anderson stated, I don’t think you do realize it. Commissioners have any questions?

Tom Burke stated, I just don’t think it is right to have a commercial entity in the middle of a subdivision surrounded by 39 homes and I stated it before and I will say it again.

President Charles Anderson stated, that is your basic and you are going about it in a whole different way.

Tom Burke stated, well. Okay.

President Charles Anderson asked, do we have anybody else?

Ruth Bortscheller stated, Ruth Bortscheller. A definition of a vehicle is any vehicle, air craft, space craft, she is changing the boat storage which we all said we would more less agree with everything if it is going to be boat storage. She now wants vehicle storage. The other thing is I don’t understand why if it does get passed, why it is going to take a year to put a road in. At the meeting the other day we were informed by Ken that when they clean it, it will just go into the gravel. That was addressed Saturday and the other thing that was address was that, they are not always going to have a fence up. They are going to be a chain up at certain times that the trailer court can use it to go into the gravel road. I understood that they had to have a permanent gate or fence to block off.

President Charles Anderson stated, permanent barrier.

Ruth Bortscheller stated, a barrier, so a chain to me is not a permanent barrier.

President Charles Anderson asked, does she want to respond to that?

Melanie Green stated, in the commitment letter we put just a barrier. Dr. Anderson in our last meeting when we were talking about what exactly is a barrier, when we were talking about that. You said a fence line or a tree line could be a barrier, it could be a gate so we are permitted access from point or the other.

President Charles Anderson stated, main thing on that barrier we didn’t want traffic circling around through that.

Melanie Green stated, we talked to the neighbors about putting up a chain, so we would be able to go through if we wanted to.

President Charles Anderson stated, we don’t want vehicle traffic going through there that was not a part of our plan.

Melanie Green stated, well Ken talked to them about this.

President Charles Anderson stated, if you had to move something through there.

Melanie Green stated, right, Ken talked to them about the possibility of allowing the people who live in our park to come through that was during the summer.

President Charles Anderson stated, if you do that, then everybody is going to want to do it and all the boats.

Melanie Green stated, right and that is not something that he and I have talked about when he said that. One year for the road, we are already using a dirt road to go back there, so the one year is just to get it in maximum time for the gravel and that came from Diann’s recommendation. Definition of a vehicle, I didn’t put boat storage because we have one of our neighbors who goes to winter in Florida and she asked us this year if she could store her car in there. So she brought her car and we put it in the building, so I wanted to be able to include people like that. The cleaning just going into the gravel the chemical we use are chemicals that commonly available at marine’s that are available to every who has boats to clean. We are not using any unusual or strange chemicals, soap and water and muriatic acid, which is zing for the haul of the boat.

President Charles Anderson asked, do the Commissioners have any questions for her? Stay up here for a second. Anyone want to address the vehicle storage?

Melanie Green stated, I had indicated vehicle storage in the very first commitment letter we had because I knew we had put a car in there for someone this year.

President Charles Anderson stated, the only trouble is, is you get in to a whole different ball game by putting more and more things just like getting a whole different ball game by restricting more and more to. Commissioners don’t have any questions at all? Does anyone else in the audience want to respond to this?

Joe Roach stated, Joe Roach, I’m with the SFLECC in the course of the last few weeks, we have received several phone calls and individuals stopping in even this morning, stopping at our office. They just want to make you aware of that, we are concerned about the drainage plan being addressed. The big concern is that, what is going into the lake that we can protect the lake. Evidently we haven’t been privilege to what has been going on. We still have a concern that you address what is going into the lake and what potentially could.

Melanie Green stated, up to this point and even in the future nothing will go into the lake, but the water draining from the buildings. The soap and water, the muriatic acid, first of all that has not been done on this property. It hasn’t been done there yet, and even in the future that can’t get to where the drainage area is. Just where we are doing it is in the middle of the property on the gravel area.

President Charles Anderson stated, but you are not changing oil and things like that or antifreeze. You are working with antifreeze if you are winterizing them and you’ve got to drain antifreeze.

Melanie Green stated, when you winterize a boat we do change the oil and that does go into gallons jugs and he takes them to some oil recycling place.

President Charles Anderson asked, but on you doing that on the ground or on the concrete floor inside?

Melanie Green stated, this year he did it for…

Ken Green stated, in front of the concrete.

Melanie Green stated, he did it for five people on the concrete pad in front of one of our buildings. The antifreeze is RV antifreeze safe to go on to the ground, it is mint flavored, it is for animals and stuff.

President Charles Anderson stated, it is not to feed them, but they can prevent harm.

Melanie Green stated, it is meant to be able to smell and it is RV antifreeze.

President Charles Anderson stated, so it is just less toxic than the other and it can be toxic because it can make them drunk. Commissioners have any questions on the last statement, since I’m not getting a lot of help here.

Melanie Green stated, if the detailing and wintering is an issue that is not something that needs to be included and I will gladly take that out of there. It is just something that we have done in the past and would like to move it to where the boat storage business is, since that is what we will do for the boat storage. Boat storage is the main thing we are trying to do.

President Charles Anderson stated, if you do the detailing of boats then you get into detailing cars, and sports cars.

Melanie Green stated, we don’t and it specifically says detailing water vehicles, we don’t’ detail anything but water vehicles and we never have.

President Charles Anderson asked, do any of the Commissioners have any questions on that? Would you like to put more stipulations on it for the car storage part of it, the detailing part of it?

Melanie Green stated, again it is not self-service. The car storage is seasonal storage not for someone to have garage space if they don’t have a garage on the road.

Greg Bossaer stated, I guess I’m concerned about what the chemicals, not knowing fully what they are and what the potential is there. If you are working with farm chemicals and you clean those off you have to have a retention area where there held and can be moved on to the field. In this situation where they are just going into the ground you don’t know where they are going to go.

President Charles Anderson asked, what do the other boat storage places do around here?

Greg Bossaer stated, I don’t know.

Melanie Green stated, I do.

Jay Clawson stated, I thought the premises of this when they were caught in violation, when this all started, was for them, you know it is in a violation state, it is not in an area that is conducive in growing into a mega business.

President Charles Anderson stated, just a boat storage area.

Jay Clawson stated, it should be thought you have it there and you’ve got one building that, and the buildings are out of compliance not to let this thing get huge if you are going to try to keep it in a residential area. If you are wanting to have a major expansion it needs to be taken someplace into a different area that is a business area. Where the ground is already done like-wise zoned. To be able to keep your 3 or 4 buildings that already have it, I think a lot of it, seen for chances of a lot growth and it isn’t really is, I don’t know, a lot of people are scared by that.

Melanie Green stated, I understand and that is not our intentions for a lot of growth. I will gladly strike the boat detailing and cleaning because that is not a major part of what that business is. It is just mainly storage.

President Charles Anderson stated, I think you would be better of doing that. Any other questions out here?

Ruth Bortscheller stated, I still would like the vehicles to be struck and make it boat storage. If you remember October 11 we were here and I was one of them that said if you are going to control the traffic flow that I would feel it should be grandfathered in as a 100% boat storage, but not as a vehicle storage.

Tom Burke stated, I don’t want to nick pick it, here is my concern I bought this property and I put a lot of money into it and I bulldozed a house.

President Charles Anderson stated, you also store a boat at this place to.

Tom Burke stated, no, I don’t, I store my in my own garage and my garage is at home. I also own some piece of some mini warehouses and the amount of money we have to put up for correct zoning is astronomical, we have to put up retention ponds in, put that is neither here or there. My concern really is, I built this house, I used all local people, I’m in the community, I’m going to stay here, I’m going to retire here. I don’t have anything against these people or any body in the court. I just think this thing is going to get larger, larger, and larger. I didn’t buy 17 years ago when I bought this property, I didn’t buy in the middle of a commercial property. It wasn’t zoned that. My concern is exactly this. Moving forward this thing is going to get bigger, and bigger. I’ve not seen a drainage plan and….

President Charles Anderson stated, they can not do anything without that, if they don’t get the drainage.

Tom Burke stated, well that drainage is going to come right on the corner of my property.

President Charles Anderson stated, it is going to have to get passed by the County.

Tom Burke stated, right.

President Charles Anderson stated, the county and drainage board is who you need to talk to about that.

Tom Burke stated, I understand that, but what I’m talking about is really, I would like to see it, I would like some communication. My point is I just don’t think this area it is a nice footprint now, it is quiet little deal and with 5 acres this thing can get substantially larger. It is elevation above the rest of the subdivision. You’ve got wells, water wells all around the place, it is a subdivision. It is a subdivision and the commercial entity is in the middle of a subdivision and that is my concern.

President Charles Anderson stated, so to you it wouldn't matter if they wanted boat storage or not.

Tom Burke stated, no if they want to put a boat storage in there fine, limit the boat storage, but you know what I don’t think it is right to have a detailing. I mean have you seen some of the detailing places down on Meridian Street.

President Charles Anderson stated, we’ve already starting addressing the detailing part of it.

Tom Burke stated, right, and draining and winterizing and things like that.

President Charles Anderson stated, boats have to be winterized to be able to be stored and that can be done somewhere else, it doesn’t exactly have to be done on the property.

Tom Burke stated, Doc Anderson is it? My concern is the property values, is this going to help or hurt the property values.

President Charles Anderson asked, has it hurt them since it has been there?

Tom Burke stated, well no.

President Charles Anderson asked, are these people trying to clean this area up?

Tom Burke stated, no absolutely not.

President Charles Anderson stated, they are making it worse.

Tom Burke stated, they are not making it worse, but the increase traffic and increase in volume.

President Charles Anderson stated, we addressed the traffic by bringing in a different road into the place and blocking the back so they can not circle through there. So...

Tom Burke stated, okay. You got any questions for me?

Ruth Bortscheller stated, I have a good feeling that this is going more like I told you two meetings ago like 3436 S. Oakley in Chicago. I hope all of you realize we did not get this letter for this meeting until 5:00 on Wednesday to come to a meeting on Saturday. Our people on that block are 60, 70, and 80 years olds. I think I would like to have all of you people put you self in our situation and see after you are second and third generation in this household and you are in this area and you are coming here for residential. How would you like this to all be happening to you where words are being changed, barriers changed to chain, boat storage is now vehicle storage, please put your selves in our positions.

President Charles Anderson stated, we are trying to do that and we are changing those things to. Do the Commissioners have any questions on this?

Don Ward asked, is the vote going to be contingent if it is a yes vote on the drainage plan, the striking of winterizing and cleaning, and was about the parking of vehicles?

President Charles Anderson stated, I don’t agree with that either. Melanie come forward again.

Don Ward asked, why not just limit it to a number like 2 or 3 or?

President Charles Anderson asked, number of?

Don Ward stated, number of vehicles. They can only store 2 or 3 vehicles. That ought to solve it.

President Charles Anderson stated, that would stop it from being a….

Don Ward stated, right.

President Charles Anderson asked, would you agree to not winterizing there and detailing there and just a boat storage? How many buildings do you use for storage now?

Melanie Green stated, yes, and 3.

President Charles Anderson stated, you are adding on one more right now. Do you intend to put anymore in, in the future?

Melanie Green stated, we address one in the drainage plan. That doesn’t mean that is what we are going to do. We may do none.

President Charles Anderson stated, it would be restricted to boat storage to if it is added on.

Melanie Green stated, right.

President Charles Anderson stated, it would be a minimum of 5 buildings for boat storage and nothing else.

Melanie Green stated, right.

President Charles Anderson asked, do the people around there have any questions about that?

Tom Burke asked, where are you going to put it?

Melanie Green stated, it is addressed in the drainage plan face to face.

Attorney Altman stated, he needs a copy of the drainage plan.

Melanie Green stated, I put a copy in there. I didn’t give you a copy.

Attorney Altman stated, I don’t see it.

Melanie Green stated, he didn’t put the buildings he put them as numbers and I can show you the numbers. The drainage plan addresses twice as much drainage as needs to be addressed with what is already there.

Dennis Sterrett stated, this plan was picked up by our Engineer this morning.

President Charles Anderson asked, do we have anybody else in the audience that wants to speak about anything?

Ruth Bortscheller stated, Don here said that he could go along with 2 or 3 vehicles. My questions is, 2 or 3 in each building or 2 or 3 total?

President Charles Anderson stated, 2 or 3 total.

Ruth Bortscheller asked, who is going to be the?

President Charles Anderson stated, you out there will have to police it if you see more than that starting to be stored.

Ruth Bortscheller stated, we don’t go, we would be arrested if we go in there, we have no legal rights to go into those buildings.

President Charles Anderson stated, if you saw multiple cars going in and not coming out, then you get some kind of an idea and then you can have somebody on the board come and inspect that.

Ruth Bortscheller stated, on a positive attitude are you addressing the barrier, not to be a chain opened at any time, but a barrier such as a gate, a fence, or row of Carolina poppers.

President Charles Anderson stated, what did it say in our ordinance.

Director Weaver stated, residential protection, it states, any business or industrial use that abuts an area zoned and used for residential purposes must have a fence or barrier at least 8’ in height. This visual obstruction must be provided and perpetually maintained by the owner of the commercial or industrial property and may be in the form of either a solid fence or natural vegetation.

President Charles Anderson stated, it has to be solid and so there would be no accessing that.

Ruth Bortscheller stated, okay then they have to know that and a chain would not work.

President Charles Anderson asked, Melanie do you want to address that too?

Melanie Green stated, that is fine. In my commitment letter I just put barrier because I didn’t have the information from Diann. So that was informal at our meeting as an idea.

Tom Burke asked, I’m sorry, but are any of you civil engineers? I’ve never seen this before and my question is it has here pond 2,144 is that enough considering the future.

Don Ward stated, I don’t know.

President Charles Anderson asked, are you talking about the drainage?

Tom Burke stated, yes.

President Charles Anderson stated, it would have to pass the county drainage board.

Tom Burke asked, are there like ratios or restraints on that stuff?

President Charles Anderson stated, yes.

Don Ward stated, that is what they do. There will be a professional look at it.

There is discussion among the board members.

Several are talking at once.

President Charles Anderson stated, on the car storage we’ve got some of the commissioners on the board who do not agree with the car storage on this. I want a show of hands who would allow 3 vehicles stored in the whole property. Anybody else want the vehicles in there? Who would like to keep this as boat storage?

Ruth Bortscheller stated, could you speak up so we can hear them.

President Charles Anderson stated, who on the board would like to have vehicle storage 3 vehicles on the property? We have two on the board. Who would just like to keep it as boat storage? So it is just going to be boat storage. The vote was 2 to 6.

David Scott stated, how will we police it?

President Charles Anderson stated, we can’t police it. The neighbors around there, if they start seeing funny things going on they can address it. That is the only thing I can say. They would have to have the Environmental Officer check it out.

Ruth Bortscheller asked, how much of this is going into the creek that goes right into Lake Shafer?

President Charles Anderson stated, that would have to be, we don’t do the drainage on this. That would have to be through the drainage board.

Don Ward stated, it would just be water anyway.

Several are talking at once.

President Charles Anderson stated, I have one thing to say before we vote on this. We are not up here as a gestapo to try to force things down people in the public. You ought to sit on one of these boards sometime and try to do it. I have had my say. If you want to change the board that is easy to go talk to your commissioners and your town board members and you can get the board changed.

Without further discussion the board voted.

Attorney Altman stated, the ballots, the vote is taken based on a aye or nay vote and the use will only be boat storage and the barrier must comply with the ordinance and the rest of the written commitment.

President Charles Anderson stated, if they want 5 buildings on there, they will have to go back to the Drainage Board. Is there a way to stop that to? No detailing, no winterizing.

The results of the vote were as follows: 8 affirmative and 0 negative. This will be presented to the White County Commissioners for their action.

Attorney Altman stated, modified as follows. The application and commitment it is for boat storage only, it must get drainage approval through the White County Drainage board and ordinance that the barrier must be a solid barrier.

President Charles Anderson stated, we have a violation on this to and these people bought this property under the assumption that it was a busy going at the time. I don’t for see fining them for a business that was already there. Do the commissioners have any other differences or opinions. Do I hear a motion on this?

Don Ward stated, I make a motion that we do not fine them for it.

Jay Clawson stated, I will second it.

President Charles Anderson stated, motion and second. Raise your hands. Fine removed.


#893 Richard W. & Judith A. Bertram Trust; The property is located on Part of Lots 9, 10, and 11 in Failing’s 1st Addition, located in Monticello at 556 S. Illinois Street.

Violation: None

Request: They are requesting to rezone from B-2 to R-2.

President Charles Anderson asked, do we have someone here representing this?

Richard Bertram stated, I understood that the neighboring people would be notified like Larry, Pat.

President Charles Anderson stated, anyone adjoining the property.

Richard Bertram stated, any objections.

Director Weaver stated, we mailed letters out, yes.

Richard Bertram stated, well I didn’t know if anyone said anything, I didn’t contact them personally.

President Charles Anderson stated, you wouldn’t have to.

Richard Bertram stated, okay, I thought so.

President Charles Anderson asked, do any of the commissioners have any questions? Anybody in the audience have any questions?

Without further discussion the board voted.

The results of the vote were as follows: 8 affirmative and 0 negative. This will be presented to the City of Monticello for their action.



#894 Ricky S. & Sadona M. Disinger; The property is located on Lot 1 in Martin Subdivision, located west of Monticello, next to 1438 Hanawalt Road.

Violation: None

Request: They are requesting to rezone from R-2 to I-1.

President Charles Anderson asked, do we have someone here representing this request? Please come forward and state your name.

Rick Disinger stated, Rick Disinger. We are just looking to rezone for an automotive machine shop. It is not an industrial machine shop, it is not a big facility. We will have a 5000 square foot building a 3-man operation. We own the property. This is not a big issue, if it is an issue we will do something else. I guess we will wait and see what questions we have and go from there.

President Charles Anderson asked, do any of the Commissioners have any questions about this request?

Director Weaver stated, we have received a letter regarding this request.

Attorney Altman stated, I would not that Mr. & Mrs. Disinger had come to me about business organization and that sort of thing. Didn’t talk at all about this location or nor ask anything about rezoning or anything like that. I told them I was the attorney for the board and couldn’t help or advise them on that. If the board wants I will recuse myself as to this.

President Charles Anderson asked, does the board have a problem with that? I don’t think we have any problems with that. I don’t have any problem with it. Do we have any body in the audience with any questions?

Attorney Altman proceeded to read the letter to the board. See file for copy of the letter.

President Charles Anderson asked, does anyone in the audience have any questions about the request?

Bill Pyle stated, Bill Pyle. I would just like to ask the Disingers if this is the same property that they tried to rezone once before and it was denied because of the water standing out there. They tried to get it zoned for housing for two houses.

Rick Disinger stated, it is the same property, but do to the time factor we bought a new home and we did not pursue it. As far as being the low spot I had some preliminary excavating analysis done. It will take 300 loads of dirt. I meet with the drainage and discussed with them. There were some tile issues, we’ve got that resolved. Part of the problem with that wet spot is on out.

Bill Pyle asked, do you have a drainage plan approved?

Rick Disinger stated, no. There were a couple of tiles that we were concerned about that are plugged, we’ve got to get that fixed.

Bill Pyle asked, you are going to bring in 300 loads of dirt?

Rick Disinger stated, yes, I’m not going to build in a low spot that is just silly.

Bill Pyle asked, will he have to submit a drainage plan with that or is there?

Dennis Sterrett stated, it is under the minimum requirements.

Bill Pyle asked, I want to know if there is going to be welding and the hours of operation there?

Rick Disinger stated, there is welding, like you would do in your garage periodic. It is not a welding shop. Engine fabrication, customized, pull tractors. It is all piecework, it is all carry. There are very few complete units that ever come through. It only has one big bay door. It is air conditioned, fully enclosed. Climate controlled, my balancers are computerized. It is not, people hear machine shop and you think of factory or a dump which is going to be neither. That is why I’m building a new facility. I’ve looked in town either it is way too big and over priced or it is too small by the time you renovate. I’m better off to buy property and start fresh. Hours are 7:30 to 5:00, 5 days a week. There will be some Saturdays, I’m self-employed, there will be some evenings. As far as noise, my mother in law will be right behind me, I can’t do that. She will tell me.

Daniel Alvarez stated, I’m Daniel Alvarez and I own about 17 acres adjacent to the property being discussed and basically my concern is not the plans of the Disingers and not the people involved. This is a residential area, agriculture area. I believe by allowing them to put in a or turn this into a business zoning that you are going to promote horizontal business development down Hanawalt Road and that area will become in the future commercial development. When this town was laid out, the founder was set out, they said this area should be commercial development and this area should be residential and they did those things to protect the areas. You are going to set a precedent and allow them to make this a business. You are then going to make a precedence for the next person that comes in and says well I want that 10 acres over there and I want to turn it into a business and how are you going to say no to them because you have allowed them to. This is a residential area, I understand their concerns because he doesn’t want to go spend $80,000 for a similar size, shape piece of property that is zoned commercial. It is cheaper for him to take residential, there is corn planted there now, so to me it is agriculture, but to take a $10,000 piece of land and get it rezoned to a $80,000 piece of land. I think it is a financial thing strictly on their part and that is not my concern. My concern is you are setting a legal precedent by allowing a rezoning change and there is a lot of farm ground in the area. That opens up the door for a lot of commercial development in the future and I don’t think it is right. I’ve got 120,000 in property. I own a house there that is on contract. The people who are on that contract have a balloon in 2 years. This goes up, they’ve already expressed not buying the house. I can be looking at a financial out of my pocket directly. Yes sir?

Charles Mellon asked, where does your farm lay?

Daniel Alvarez stated, directly adjacent, I own the property, the house at 1370 and all the land from 1370 adjacent to her driveway.

Charles Mellon stated, that is east.

Daniel Alvarez stated, yes. All the way back a ¼ mile off of the road. I’m just concerned, the reason I bought that house for the people who wanted to live in, they like the area, they liked because it is residential area, horses, farms, no business, the business are all along 6th Street. All of your precedes said commercial development should be. I don’t have anything against what they are trying to do other than the fact that we are setting a bad precedent legally. If you allow them to do it, how are you going to tell the next person you can’t do it, well you allowed them to do it, he just put in a machine shop. Well it is a machine shop and why don’t you put them where they are suppose to go, not where people are living, sleeping, and breathing that is my feelings.

President Charles Anderson asked, anyone else?

Charles Mellon asked, Diann when were these pictures taken?

Director Weaver stated, Thursday.

Several are talking at once.

Don Pauken stated, I’m Don Pauken and what Dan Alvarez has spoken mainly what I want to talk about. Under Chapter 4 of the Local Planning and Zoning of the Indiana Code it says that the purpose of the chapter is to encourage the units to improve the health, safety, convenience and welfare of their citizens and to plan for future development of the communities. In looking over your ordinance as far as the I-1 is concerned there are 39 possibilities to or that included permitted uses for I-1 as well 20 additional that need a special exception. So 59 things are permitted uses could be in the future in the adjacent properties. The vacant property on both sides Mr. Alvarez has already mentioned one of them. What concerns me is the future, we have to consider the future and this is a residential and an agriculture area period. To establish an island right now and it allows for the future that Mr. Clawson pointed out back in April of 2005, that we cluster, we cluster things with like things, like things. Like zoning with like zoning and not put on any island, so therefore I am against this rezoning proposal and I’d like to see the hands of the people who support that, we do not want it rezoned.

President Charles Anderson asked, does anyone else have anything to say? Do the Commissioners have any questions? This really doesn’t meet the requirements of an I-1 because of the width of it. It isn’t quite wide enough.

Daniel Alvarez stated, the water isn’t he issue sir, I’m opposing this, but I believe. The water isn’t an issue, because if you properly elevate the ground and drainage is taken care of who is to tell you where you are to build, but I think you are to build like you are suppose to.

Charles Mellon stated, the tile is taken care of.

Daniel Alvarez stated, right, if the man wants to put a house on there. I mean so there is water, to me that who precludes someone’s right to bring in dirt and put in and elevate a 1’ or 2’.

President Charles Anderson stated, well there is also the problem of putting water on the neighbors to when you do something like that.

Daniel Alvarez stated, if it is done properly I have no problems, but my problem lies in the fact that they should be a house on that dirt and not build a business.

President Charles Anderson asked, do any of the commissioners have any questions? Anybody else have any questions?

Without further discussion the board voted.

The results of the vote were as follows: 0 affirmative and 8 negative. This will be presented to the County Commissions for their action.


#895 JDMW Land Trust #2536, Owner; Dave Jordan, Applicant; The property is located on 17.427 Acres on Part NE SE 5-26-3, located south of Monticello, on the west side of Sixth Street and south of the water tower.

Violation: None

Request: They are requesting to rezone from A-1 to I-1.

President Charles Anderson asked, is there anyone here representing this request?

Dave Jordan stated, I’m Dave Jordan. You can pretty well play it out what we want to do. Any questions you may have of me?

President Charles Anderson asked, does any of the Commissioners have any questions?

Director Weaver stated, I only have one set of pictures, they’ve got them.

President Charles Anderson asked, does anyone in the audience have any questions?

Ken Boston stated, I have a question. I own the property just to the North of that and I have a question about the drainage. I don’t have any objection to the zoning, unless he is going to do boats or something like that. The run off and the drainage, is that plan submitted? Is there anything on how it is going to work? There is one drain tile that is plugged.

David Jordan stated, I have hired engineers and they are working with the county engineers to come up with an acceptable drainage program, we’ve already put money up to do. A lot of it is what the County engineers want to do is actually tie into the expansion of 6th Street there. They are looking at enlarging that tile to get more up to that area.

President Charles Anderson asked, where are they going to run that to? South or run it North?

David Jordan stated, North. Everything just a little bit South of what I purchase all runs North to the Buss ditch. I think the drainage tile in your area there, there is another tile over there that Brittons put in and the history of it, no one new, this tile existed. It is about a 14” to 16” tile something like there. We think it comes across, it starts over on the East side of 6th Street, gets their property and comes across the property that Roach drained and comes across and goes north and then goes up and goes back on the East side of 6th Street again. Draining that farm land. Don Johnson with the Kraybill Farm told me that tile was put in to drain those farms up in that area. There is a wedge kind of coming through there. The tile where yours is at is pretty well plugged up.

Ken Boston stated, it is about half working. I was just kind of wondering what we were going to do.

Dave Jordan stated, then what we, it looks like the plans are going to be is actually we will capture more of the water that is coming down before it gets to your place. That will come east.

President Charles Anderson stated, you are not planning on draining everything from you over to him.

Dave Jordan stated, no.

Ken Boston stated, there is a tile that comes through my property just north of Gordon road and it is about 10” or 12” and Wrede’s came out and fixed it last year extended it on out pass my property and covered it and it still only works about half.

President Charles Anderson stated, where does it go, does it go North?

Ken Boston stated, it goes South the back lot.

President Charles Anderson stated, so it probably goes into the other tile he was talking about.

Ken Boston stated, it could be.

President Charles Anderson asked, are these private tiles, are they on the books?

Ken Boston stated, I think they are on the books, yes.

President Charles Anderson stated, so the County would have to find them.

Dave Jordan stated, yes his tiles are on the books. I believe.

Dennis Sterrett stated, it goes north.

Dave Jordan stated, he says it goes back south.

President Charles Anderson stated, before you get everything done, the drainage would have to be approved.

Dave Jordan stated, it will be approved and they are working on that.

Several are talking at once.

Dave Jordan stated, whatever we do is going to help you. Whatever line comes across and goes through part of it to go on yours that will be eliminated. All the water is going to the lake too.

Several are talking at once.

President Charles Anderson asked, are there any other questions?

Without further discussion the board voted.

The results of the vote were as follows: 8 affirmative and 0 negative. This will be presented to the County Commissioners for their action.


President Charles Anderson stated, next on the agenda would be business. Do you have any new business for us?

Director Weaver stated, we do have some new business for you. I had given the Commissioners some copies and pictures, I received a complaint about a piece of property. I want some direction from the board on what they want to do with this. Look at the pictures.

Jay Clawson asked, can we study this and let you know next month about what we want to do?

Director Weaver stated, that is fine.

Jay Clawson stated, we just got this.

Director Weaver stated, that is fine, Rangeline.

Jay Clawson stated, I need to review this and decide what to do.

President Charles Anderson stated, I think we need to have our lawyer give them a deadline, either get them out and back fine him.

Director Weaver stated, this is on the South Side.

Don Ward asked, what is the situation with the County Commissioners? This thing has drugged on for months now.

Director Weaver stated, regarding the violation or.

Don Ward stated, this is something different. This is the south side of Hanawalt.

Director Weaver stated, yes, the corner lot.

Don Ward stated, I thought this was in limbo, was it turned down.

Director Weaver stated, yes. This was turned down, they did finally vote on those and they were turned down.

Don Ward stated, okay, I didn’t think it was settled.

President Charles Anderson stated, the North side we still have a problem there.

Attorney Altman stated, the dead line is the end of this month.

Director Weaver stated, when I went by there, it looked like some of them had been removed. John you would no better then me. The North side of Hanawalt has he removed some of those containers.

John Raines stated, yes, some of them.

Director Weaver stated, I thought so.

Daniel Alvarez stated, I know someone in a business and the reason they were moved because they were placed at business not because they were removed and placed elsewhere or sold. They removed because they were placed at businesses and are in use.

Attorney Altman asked, would you come see me tomorrow? I want someone to testify.

Daniel Alvarez stated, I will be out of town, but if you want to call me.

Tom Parsley stated, I’ll come talk to you tomorrow after 10:00 a.m., I know where they are at. I watched them move them with a backhoe.

Attorney Altman stated, that is fine, please call and make an appointment.

Tom Parsley stated, there are still 15 of them there.

Bill Pyle asked, Mr. Anderson or Mr. Altman that is in Circuit Court, could we be advised as to the date of that is going to be in Circuit court so we can be there?

Attorney Altman stated, it is not set for trial.

Bill Pyle stated, it isn’t set for a trail, it’s been a month and half?

Attorney Altman stated, that is not at all unusual.

Daniel Alvarez stated, I thought whenever you rezone that adjacent property owners need to be notified by mail. I was not notified. I own over 15 acres of land in a quarter mile strip adjacent to that entire piece of property and if I hadn’t read the paper Thursday.

Director Weaver stated, you are not an adjoiner.

Daniel Alvarez stated, well the gravel road separates me from them some 200’.

Director Weaver stated, that is why.

Daniel Alvarez stated, but I mean I am an adjacent property owner.

President Charles Anderson stated, she can’t find every single one.

Daniel Alvarez stated, well I thought wait a minutes don’t I own land next to this why wasn’t I notified.

President Charles Anderson stated, when there is property in between you, you are not a property adjoiner. That is were it breaks down.

Several are talking at once.

President Charles Anderson asked, is there anymore business?

Director Weaver stated, the address ordinance. Has anyone given any thought to the addressing ordinance and how we want to address that? Has any one looked at the information I gave you last month? Remember I gave you information last month. This isn’t going to go away, I mean she is calling me again since our last meeting.

President Charles Anderson stated, as far as I’m concerned everyone on the street would have to agree with changing the name.

Director Weaver stated, I mean that is what we need to come up with how to go about it.

President Charles Anderson stated, write that down.

Don Pauken stated, I’m not clear on the south side violation, what is, where are you going with this.

Director Weaver stated, they didn’t make a decision, they are going to address it next month.

Jay Clawson stated, she just gave it to us right before the meeting, and we haven’t had chance to look at it. We will have it on the agenda next month.

The meeting adjourned.

Respectfully submitted,

Donald W. Ward, Secretary

White County Area Plan Commission

Diann Weaver, Director

White County Area Plan Commission