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The White County Area Plan Commission met Monday, February 13, 2006, at 7:30 p.m. in the Commissioners’ Meeting Room, Second Floor, County Building, Monticello, Indiana.

Members attending were: Jay Clawson, David Rosenbarger, Charles Anderson, Charles Mellon, Donald W. Ward, and Dennis Sterrett. Also attending were Attorney Altman and Director Weaver.

Visitors Attending were: Terry Beasy, Shelly Beasy, Walter E. Hough, Essy Williams, Jeff VanWeelden, Dow Dellinger, Leae Williams, Don Pauken, Don Williams, Floyd L. England, Glenn Ruemler, John Noe, Larry Noe, Doris Parsley, Tom Parsley, Timothy Plantenga, Charles Geier, Rev. Charles Blakey, Sandra Johns, Herb Parrish, Don Apple, Katie Apple, Hazel D. Aubenspeck, Kathy Cade, Frank Cade, John Kopplemann, Don Wright, Brian Kearney, Sandy Kearney, Dave Stimmel, Steve Brown, Robert Smith, Gary Dedaker, Grant Townsand, Terri Raines, Joellen Kelley, Mark Kelley, Stan Hickman, Myron Barnes, Steven Tabel, and Cindy Parsley. Also attending but not signed in were Bill Pyle and John Raines.

The meeting was called to order by President Charles Anderson and roll call was taken. There are only six members here tonight. So for a positive recommendation, for us to recommend a positive recommendation to either the commissioners or the town board it takes all six of us to vote for it.

Charles Mellon made a motion to dispense with reading and approve the minutes of the January 9, 2006 meeting. Motion was seconded by Jay Clawson and carried unanimously.

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#898 John E. & Tara A. Lynch; The property is located on 0.758 of an acre, SE corner of N ½ SW ¼ 31-28-3, located on the East side of Lowe’s Bridge at 4472 E. Penrod Drive.

Violation: None.

Request: They are requesting to rezone from R-2 to B-2.

President Charles Anderson stated, do we have someone representing that request? Please come forward and state your name and everything and then each time restate you name so that when the girls get this on the minutes we’ll have your name.

Ed Lynch said, we are asking to rezone a property as you described. What we have in mind is to just rezone a portion of that property on the West End there is a pole barn and then a barn. What we would like to do, planning for semi retirement is start a detail business where we would detail

automobiles and boats and then in the barn perhaps store them. The pole barn itself has a concrete floor with drains. The water would be filtered that leaves that building, and we are talking with the sewer district about connecting to the sewer. Its like I said, not the entire property just the west end.

President Charles Anderson asked, as far as detailing are you talking about just cleaning up boats or are you talking about changing oil, changing fluids in the boat?

Ed Lynch responded by saying, no this would be strictly interiors and paint on automobiles and boats that would be no kind of mechanical work or oil changes or maintenance of that type.

President Charles Anderson asked, as far as the storage would it just be boat storage or would be automobile storage and boat storage?

Ed Lynch answered, yes, I suppose it could be automobile storage, all storage would be done indoors, all work would be done indoors, it would basically look no different than it does today. Anything that’s stored would be out of sight anything being worked on would be out of sight. The customer’s vehicle that may be waiting for service may be outside for a short period of time.

President Charles Anderson asked, if the Commissioners had any questions about this request, if not we have two letters.

David Rosenbarger says, I’ve got one question. You brought up the word painting. Is that in B-2? Boats and automobiles, what would that be?

Ed Lynch said, I would not be painting, I was just talking about as far as polishing of paint.

President Charles Anderson stated, cleaning up the paint polishing the paint jobs?

David Rosenbarger stated, my concern was you said painting.

Director Diann stated, all I have is auto body painting and yes it does go in a B-2.

President Charles Anderson stated, we’ve got two letters sent our office about this. Do you want to read those into the minutes?

Attorney Jerry Altman proceeded to read letters. (See file.)

Charles Mellon stated, Doc in the second paragraph on the first reading he said residential purposes and it’s recreational purposes. That’s a little different.

Attorney Jerry Altman stated, recreational purposes. Thank you very much for correcting me.

President Charles Anderson stated, Mr. Lynch, would you like to make any statements pertaining to that at all right now or do you want to wait? I can see there are other people out in the audience that have questions about the request too.

Ed Lynch said, I can hold off.

President Charles Anderson stated, you can come back at any time to respond to any body else.

Do we have anybody else who wants to respond to that? If you want to come forward and state your name.

Don Apple said, I live right across the street from the proposed reclassification. I have a letter that I would like to enter into statement too from my next door neighbor Mr. Paul Spass, who was in Tennessee, he didn’t have the chance, he just got back this morning, wrote the letter and jumped in his truck and away he went back to Chicago. So if you want to read that into the minutes.

Attorney Jerry Altman proceeds to read the letter. (See file.)

Don Apple stated, I would like to address it from a standpoint the Lynch’s are fantastic neighbors and I sure don’t want to do anything to hurt our relationship as far as neighborhood relationship the place is 100% different than it ever was. I mean it’s cleaned up it looks good so I have no objections to that. My objection I guess would be if its classified as B-2 what would be allowed supposing that the Lynch’s would sell that piece of property in a year or two, what would be allowed in there as a business?

President Charles Anderson stated, she can read you that but also we can ask them to put restrictions on this where at the end of the time if they were going to sell it to anybody it would revert back to original zoning too. We could ask them to make a commitment that way if that would satisfy some people about what they want to do.

Don Apple stated, that’s the decision of the commissioners and the Lynch’s.

President Charles Anderson stated that would be their decision to present it to us that way and we could vote on it that way.

Don Apple asked, so the Lynch’s decision as to present it to you? What would be, Ms. Weaver, what would be the allowable use of a B-2?

Director Diann Weaver answered, there are several things that could go into B-2 zoning. I’ll just read you some of them, animal hospital, antique shop, appliance sales, appraisal service, art gallery, etc…

President Charles Anderson asked, do you need all of those?

Don Apple stated, no I think that’s sufficient. I guess then listening to the list of items. That building could be used for under a B-2 rezoning, it more strengthens my position in thinking that I would like to oppose it from the stand point of, I understand that the Lynch’s are going to do with it but who knows if the Lynch’s might sell it. Who knows if he’s not happy with his retirement business and it’s not making sufficient funds to keep him satisfied and keep him happy in his retirement that he might add in to these other businesses.

President Charles Anderson asked, so it wouldn’t matter if he went ahead and made a commitment to leave it.

Don Apple said, if he made the commitment I think that would again that would way heavy on our minds, yes, but again I would have to go along at this point in time without that commitment with objecting to the usage to the changing of the B-2 classification here. Thank you.

President Charles Anderson asked, do we have anybody else that would like to say any thing at all?

Katie Apple stated, I’m Katie Apple, Don’s wife, and I sure wouldn’t want to go through what we went through after we came here the other time. When we came here it was pretty bad, because the Lynch’s are wonderful people but I am upset that they want to change our zoning. We are right across, I mean, I’m across from the door to those buildings. My front door and theirs and we have put money in a see wall. We have built a garage. Our yard is a mess right now because the neighbor Mr. Spass…

President Charles Anderson stated, we don’t have to get into all that, we don’t have to get into your yard.

Katie Apple stated, I’m just saying we want this to look nice. We have this beautiful home being built next to us. This will definitely lower our property value. If anybody is buying to be on the lake they don’t want a business. I mean there is just a street between us, And I don’t want a business, I pray that you’ll consider that and not lower our property values. Thank you.

President Charles Anderson asked, Mr. Lynch would you like to respond to any of that?

Mr. Lynch said, yes. First of all there were some concerns about the traffic. The entrance to this property would be the first road off of Shafer. There would be no change in traffic in that community. As far as how we are perhaps changing what our business is, you know, we are open to restrictions I mean if there were restrictions to allow us to do what we say we can do and nothing else, no problem. What we want to do is retire in a few years and make a little money on the side. We both enjoy working with cars. You can see by what we’ve done with the place already that we are not going to trash, if there were restrictions that would not allow us, no big deal. The restrictions to keep us from starting another business or reverting back to a residential should we sell it; we are open to those. I really believe that what we will do with that property will improve the looks of that neighborhood and just drive by, it already has.

President Charles Anderson stated, one thing I would like to say to you here is; now there are only six members here, it takes all six of us to give you a positive recommendation. If one person opposes it at all, you get a no recommendation. Which means then it goes to the commissioners and the commissioners decide on it with no recommendation from us. A positive recommendation would be that we agreed with it on that. You can bring that before us now or you could, if you wanted to table it and come back with a commitment written up to limit the use of it. But I would like to bring Mr. Apple back up and ask him if that would be. Do you want to come on up?

Don Apple stated, well, I would suppose ladies and gentleman that my objections to it would be my wife objects to the fact that she wouldn’t want any boats sitting outside. And I think Mr. Lynch has already stated that the boats would be inside, boats or cars would be inside the building. If he were willing to stipulate that there will be no boats setting around in yards cars setting around in yards and so on. I probably would pull my objection to it again this would be Mr. Lynch’s decision to make.

President Charles Anderson stated, that’s something that we can do tonight and take a vote on it with six members here having him develop a commitment, subject to a commitment restricting it to the uses that you stated which would be car detailing and boat detailing and boat storage.

John Lynch stated, indoors.

Tara Lynch stated, indoors, you’re not going to see any boats out.

President Charles Anderson asked, what are we doing now?

Attorney Jerry Altman said, They want to see pictures.

David Rosenbarger said, I want to see them.

Charles Mellon stated, there is another fellow out there that lives on down the street. Chuck Burkes and I think he’s in Florida now. He talked to me about it, he wanted some more credentials and stuff and I couldn’t give him any information at that time, so if it could be put off for another month. He might be home I don’t know when he’s coming back. I think he’s coming back for the next sewer board meeting. Twin Lakes Sewer Board meeting.

David Rosenbarger said, no he won’t be here until the first of March, Charlie.

Charles Mellon stated, okay, well that would be time, another month.

President Charles Anderson stated, Mr. Lynch would want to come back?

John Lynch stated, yes.

President Charles Anderson stated, Mr. Apple has something to say too. Why don’t you two just get to together there? Would you want to get with your neighbors and talk to them and see if you can develop a commitment that could be used on this. To get your use on this, that you want to use it for and to change the zoning. Would you want to do that or would you want to go ahead and vote on it tonight and see what you get done tonight on it?

John Lynch stated, I have no problem getting with every body and addressing the concerns because I’m sure that we can address any concern that any one has.

President Charles Anderson stated, would you rather do that before you vote on it? Or would you rather?

John Lynch asked, so if you voted tonight what does that mean?

President Charles Anderson stated, that means that it could be turned down or it could pass too. But if we could have you commit to a commitment to restrict it to certain uses too.

John Lynch stated, if I went with your vote based on my commitments and I was turned down. Would I still have the option to talk with these guys and come back again?

President Charles Anderson stated, you still would but it could even be the next…

Attorney Jerry Altman stated, has three months between…

President Charles Anderson stated, it would be three months wait if you did that.

Charles Mellon stated, it might be all ten of us here that night too.

President Charles Anderson stated, the more that’s here the more chance you’ve got of getting…

Charles Mellon stated, there has been eight to ten of us here but there’s only six tonight. That’s getting pretty short, if you get one against it, your done. If you take off a month.

President Charles Anderson stated, but not necessarily done because the commissioners still gotta vote on it after that too.

Charles Mellon stated, well no for tonight it is. If you come back in a month there will probably be more here. There’s usually eight here. A lot of times nine.

John Lynch stated, eight, is that enough?

Attorney Altman stated, you’ve got to get six.

Charles Mellon stated, well you gotta get more, like you got to get six to go to the commissioners, the four commissioners, three commissioners are the ones that make the final say so.

President Charles Anderson stated, right now, it seems to me that you've got people that are going to be objecting no matter what you put down on that paper.

John Lynch stated, okay let me say this. My wife has spent every summer of her childhood on the Big Monon. We built a house on the Big Monon recently you know. We, we’re not going anywhere so I think I’ll take a chance on going with you folks. I’ll make any commitments I’m open to any restrictions. Let’s just see what happens.

Charles Mellon stated, there’s a man that raised his hand.

President Charles Anderson stated, well I don’t if we can. We can’t make…

Don Ward stated, that’s hard for us to vote on.

Jay Clawson stated, yeah, he would have to come with a commitment to us, instead of us…

President Charles Anderson stated, we can’t make a commitment for you and I bet your not going to get enough agreement here tonight with some opposed and some say that possibly you could do that. You would have to make your own commitment if wanted to. Or could just run it through the way it is. You don’t have to make any commitments. You can have us vote on it tonight whether we want to change it that but then if we do vote on it tonight then it’s three months before you can resubmit it then.

Attorney Altman stated, well, if the commissioners vote it down then it has to wait three months.

Charles Mellon stated, you can come back to us in a month.

Attorney Altman stated, no he has to wait three months.

Jay Clawson stated, if he votes on it he can’t….

Attorney Altman stated, well yeah if we vote on it if vote on it. Yeah it can come back next month if he tables it.

Tara Lynch stated, I’m not hearing, three months to come back?

President Charles Anderson stated, well, if we vote on it tonight. You want to make your commitment and present it to us next month we can vote on it?

John Lynch stated, if we let them vote on it tonight and we’re turned down. We’ve got to wait three months.

Tara Lynch asked, otherwise we could come back next month.

President Charles Anderson stated, so would like to table…

John Lynch stated, so we could come back next month better prepared and have a better chance. Okay let’s do that.

President Charles Anderson asked, would you like to table this? If we table it we can’t have any more discussion on it.

John Lynch stated, we’re done.

President Charles Anderson stated, there’s a question in the audience but it can’t be related to this cause we’re already done on it.

Tim Plantenga asked, before you table that in a few minutes, can I say something?

President Charles Anderson stated, no not now because it’s tabled.

John Lynch stated, okay, thank you.

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#899 Rangeline Properties, Inc, Owner; Jeff VanWeelden, Applicant; The property is located on Lot 1 in Korpita’s Corner Subdivision, located West of Monticello at 19 S. 300 E.

Violation: Photographs for the Board’s review for the pending notice of violation.

Request: They are requesting to rezone from A-1 to I-2.

President Charles Anderson stated, do we have anybody here representing that request? Do you want to come forward and state your name for the record?

Dow Dellinger stated, Mr. President, I’m Dow Dellinger, I’m here on behalf of Rangeline Properties, Inc. and due to the lack of members and do to the spirit of Valentines Day. We’ve asked to table this till the next meeting. Shortens the meeting for you too.

President Charles Anderson stated, okay so this has been done tabled and we can’t discuss it either. As far as I’m concerned it doesn’t take a vote on it from us to table something, if he wants to table something. I f he wants to table these, he’s got all the rights in the world if he’s here to table it. So it’s tabled.

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#900 James O. Beliles, Sr.; The property is located on Lot 16, Part Lot 21, Part Lot 22, Lot 23 and .20 of an acre, Part NE NE 33-27-4, property is located in the Town of Reynolds at 209 W. 2nd Street, also on the southwest corner of Boone Street and 1st Street and also on the southeast corner of Center Street and 1st Street.

Violation: None

Request: He is requesting to rezone from B-2 to R-4.

President Charles Anderson stated, we need to quiet down out there.

Attorney Jerry Altman stated, please we’re conducting a meeting.

President Charles Anderson stated, and he sent us a letter to table this. Do you want to read the letter?

Attorney Jerry Altman began to read the letter. (See file.)

President Charles Anderson stated, I got to back one, we did have a violation on #899, can we, since it’s been tabled. Can we go through the violations?

Attorney Jerry Altman stated, no.

President Charles Anderson stated, okay.

President Charles Anderson stated, is any body, well I can’t ask for a response on that either.

Attorney Altman stated, no we can’t ask. So we’re down to one.

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#901 Brian T. & Sandra L. Kearney; The property is located on 1.219 acres, Part SE NE 29-27-3, located in the City of Monticello at 1410 N. Sixth Street.

Violation: None.

Request: They are requesting to rezone from I-1 to B-2.

President Charles Anderson stated, is there anyone here representing that request? Do you want to come forward and state your name?

Attorney Jerry Altman stated, for the record we have several photographs taken by the director, they are being circulated among the membership. They are part of the record and evidence.

Brian Kearney stated, yeah I wanted to get it zoned a B-2, it is an office building. So it can be rented as such. In the correct zoning?

President Charles Anderson asked, Commissioners have any questions about that request?

Dennis Sterrett asked, and there is a building on that sight?

Brian Kearney stated, yes sir 1400 square foot office building on the sight, used to be Dave Hornback’s office for his bridge building business. We have some interest in that people that want to rent it. But I don’t want to rent it if it’s not zoned correctly. And also in the future if I wanted to put another building up I would like it to be B-2 for that as well.

President Charles Anderson stated, anybody in the audience have any questions about this request at all? And have we answered all the commissioners’ questions? If so I’d say go ahead and vote.

Attorney Jerry Altman stated, It’s certainly in a B type area.

The board is looking at pictures.

Jay Clawson asked, Diann the only thing that we’ll probably ask the city is if any change of zoning, he’ll have to bring his parking lot into compliance. If we rezone it city but he can just bring, he doesn’t need to know that before he comes, does he? Before the city? All right.

President Charles Anderson stated, okay, I want to ask the board. Go on back to #899 again. I shouldn’t rehash this but we did have a violation that. Does the board think that we ought to since that request was tabled? Should we table the…

Dow Dellinger stated, the violation was on the other lot, Charlie we were planning on addressing the violation, the only thing we were talking about tabling was the rezoning.

President Charles Anderson stated, yeah but then we’re gonna still gonna get into the same, we’re gonna repeat this twice if we do it now.

Jay Clawson stated, that’s in the business isn’t it?

Don Pauken stated, the violation is against 899 I mean against lot 1.

President Charles Anderson stated, which we can’t…

Attorney Jerry Altman stated, discuss…

President Charles Anderson stated, new violations you mean coming up. We’ve got a violation on it already. And he does have some things on it, I can’t get into this too much but he does have some things throw’d on there right now that I don’t understand why they’re there, probably personal property but I don’t know. Is that what you’re talking about. Okay. What does the board feel, you feel we should go through these violations now, or wait? Can I get a show of hands of if you think we should go through these now on the violations on that or whether we should wait and table with the rest of it.

David Rosenbarger stated, what part’s under the business?

President Charles Anderson stated, what?

David Rosenbarger stated, what violation is under business?

Director Weaver stated, that’s on the North property.

President Charles Anderson stated, that violation is one that was on a violation that these, we

were wanting to find out whether he paid the fine and whether he paid the lawyer fees is what that was. On the end of it. Which will come up. We’ll run through that.

David Rosenbarger stated, north property. I took as under business cause you’ve got it stated as the south property.

President Charles Anderson stated, that’s where the violation it was a business violation but it was on the South or the…

A member of the audience stated, Lot 1.

Director Weaver stated, I think Dave is questioning this right here.

David Rosenbarger stated, you’ve got two, two different lots on the, under business…

Director Weaver stated, yeah, cause we, I did list the violation there too. Yeah I think that’s what Dave’s referring to.

President Charles Anderson stated, okay it’s on it is in the business too. On that.

David Rosenbarger stated, right, you’ve got it under business. So we can do it under business.

President Charles Anderson stated, do you want to go ahead and do that then tonight?

David Rosenbarger stated, if it’s under business.

Jay Clawson stated, are we going to finish this one here first?

President Charles Anderson stated, yeah we got to finish this out first and then we’ll…

Don Ward stated, we outta wait till we have more members.

Jay Clawson stated, bring those cards back up here.

President Charles Anderson stated, let’s go ahead and finish out the vote on this one.

Attorney Jerry Altman stated, yeah I don’t have, I have three ballots.

Charles Mellon stated, oh I didn’t get mine.

The results of the vote were as follows: 6 affirmative and 0 negative. This will be presented to the Monticello City Council for their action.

Attorney Jerry Altman stated, Monday, right Jay?

Jay Clawson stated, Tuesday.

Director Weaver stated, is it Monday or Tuesday?

Jay Clawson stated, Tuesday.

Attorney Jerry Altman stated, Tuesday I suspect.

Director Weaver stated, Monday’s a holiday.

Charles Mellon stated, Monday’s President’s Day.

Jay Clawson stated, well I think they are having the meeting cause they advertised some kind of

special hearing for abatement by mistake and we have to have the meeting because they advertised it so.

Attorney Jerry Altman stated, your going to be Monday, Monday.

Jay Clawson stated, I think so, I think that’s what the…

Attorney Jerry Altman stated, you might check with the city council as to when that is but we think it’s going to be Monday at seven o’clock.

Jay Clawson stated, cause they did a legal notice so we have to have the meeting.

Charles Mellon stated, Monday or Tuesday.

Jay Clawson stated, I don’t get the day off so it doesn’t matter to me.

Brian Kearney stated, so did they make a final decision or are we…

Attorney Altman stated, yes six to zero in favor.

Brian Kearney stated, okay, so I check with them, you say, Monday or Tuesday?

Attorney Altman stated, I’d check tomorrow.

Jay Clawson stated, call the clerk treasurer, she can tell you for sure, we’re not at the city hall.

Brian Kearney stated, thank you.

Attorney Altman stated, thank you.

****

President Charles Anderson stated, okay, next on the agenda would be business and we got Rangeline Properties on here but I still don’t that’s the…

 

Jay Clawson stated, I think we out to wait the…

 

President Charles Anderson stated, lot #1 is the west property it’s not the south property, the south property’s across the road.

 

David Rosenbarger stated, that would be another project.

 

Director Weaver stated, the lot #1 was what I presented to you in December where I wanted direction from the board whether we should pursue as a violation or not. I presented the pictures to you.

 

President Charles Anderson stated, right but that’s not the, why is that called the south property though?

 

Don Ward stated, that’s just differing it from the West Side.

 

Several people say South side of the road.

 

President Charles Anderson stated, all right I got it. Okay and as far as the as requested by the board for discussion of the fine the 500 dollar fine has been paid hasn’t it?

 

Director Weaver stated, yes.

 

President Charles Anderson stated, the attorney’s fees on that has been paid.

 

Director Weaver stated, yes.

 

President Charles Anderson stated, on the so that’s where I on that, that was on the north property. Okay. Now I get where you’re coming from. Okay now. The violation now we got and access to the south. In discussion to the south property on lot 1 in Korpita’s Corner subdivision and this is this applies to the discussion we were having at the last meeting. Which some people don’t think we should of discussed and we didn’t discuss in a good manner, whatever. Anyway, do you have those pictures with you tonight on that?

 

Director Weaver stated, I don’t know if I do or not. They’re on the corner of my desk, let me grab them.

 

President Charles Anderson stated, okay. Do you want to make a statement here tonight?

 

Don Pauken stated, Don Pauken I want to back to the first portion of the discussion on the summons that he had and I figure you settled out of court.

 

President Charles Anderson stated, that’s coming up at the end of this.

 

Don Pauken stated, no that’s the one you just talked about. The 500 dollars on the north property, the north 4 acres.

 

President Charles Anderson stated, okay.

 

Don Pauken stated, and 500 dollars, I heard last week 300 dollars for the fees.

 

Director Weaver stated, here you go Doc.

 

President Charles Anderson stated, how much were the, yes 300 for the attorney fees.

 

Don Pauken stated, the 500 dollars was the fine that he paid back in the summer is that correct or did he get 500 more?

 

President Charles Anderson stated, no he just got 500 dollars on that property.

 

Don Pauken stated, 500 dollars more?

 

President Charles Anderson stated, that was, no it was 500 dollars total.

 

Bill Pyle stated, no.

 

Don Pauken stated, so, so he got, he went 108 days after the 30 days that you gave him after the commissioners meeting. 108 days and you gave to allow him to get off for 300 dollars, or whatever it was?

 

President Charles Anderson stated, no he got off he got off for the 500.

 

Don Pauken stated, at 500 dollars a day do you know how much that is?

 

President Charles Anderson stated, and the 300 dollars for the fine on that.

 

Don Pauken stated, 300 dollars for the fine do you know how much…

 

President Charles Anderson stated, my main concern was getting it over and getting those…

 

Don Pauken stated, I know.

 

President Charles Anderson stated, the dumpsters off the property and trying to straighten the property off.

 

Don Pauken stated, I understand that.

 

President Charles Anderson stated, to take it to court would of cost the county more money too.

Don Pauken stated, 54,000 dollars at $500 a day I don’t think it would take that much out of the county’s pocket.

President Charles Anderson stated, yeah but I don’t, there’s a maximum fine that we can give and I don’t think that we can give a daily fine for that many…

Don Pauken stated, how about a daily fine of 25 dollars a day. You know what that is?

President Charles Anderson stated, yeah but the same token I wanted to get it over with I wanted to get it cleared up wanted to get it straightened up for the people in that area.

Don Pauken stated, who made the decision?

President Charles Anderson stated, there were several of us that our lawyer asked us how we wanted to handle that and I said just I just wanted to get it done. I said I just want to get it over with. And he asked several other members on the board individually and we didn’t have a meeting or anything to do that and it was taken care of that way.

Don Pauken stated, I think you’re supposed to enforce the ordinance and that’s not enforcing the ordinance, to sit and stare at those things for 108 days.

Attorney Jerry Altman stated, Doc.

President Charles Anderson stated, you want to respond?

Attorney Jerry Altman stated, yeah. The fine was imposed by the director with her letter and the board indicated that’s exactly what it should do. The attorney fee was decided by several of the board members. Be discussing how to further settlement that’s all I just, I just tell you that’s how it occurred.

Bill Pyle stated, can I get a clarification, Bill Pyle, you said you made that decision to work that deal out of court for the people that live around there. Did you ask any of the people around there about that?

President Charles Anderson stated, no we didn’t ask anybody around there.

Bill Pyle stated, I am one of those people around there and I don’t appreciate you making a deal out of court. I think you should, if you took him to court to Circuit Court you should of exercised that all the way.

President Charles Anderson stated, I don’t believe that we had to take him to circuit court.

Bill Pyle stated, you did.

President Charles Anderson stated, if we, if we get, if we got it settled out of court. Was it ever, did it go to circuit court?

Attorney Altman stated, it was filed, it was filed.

President Charles Anderson stated, it did go to Circuit Court.

Attorney Altman stated, it was filed in Circuit Court yes.

President Charles Anderson stated, but I wanted to get it taken care of and get it over with and get it done with.

Bill Pyle stated, well I just want to voice it once more this is the second time, third time I think we would have liked to seen it go through court, Charlie.

President Charles Anderson stated, okay.

Bill Pyle stated, that’s. That’s my opinion and I think some of the people that are still here that live in the neighbor hood don’t appreciate. We worked hard. We, you know, you’re going and there’s another thing you’re talking about that there was photographs taken and we’re, you know, they talk about the money they’re spending. We’re spending money on this deal too; and time and we don’t appreciate a deal being made without at least discussing it in open meetings.

President Charles Anderson stated, you would rather have it discussed on what’s gonna happen then every time we get a…

Bill Pyle stated, we’re going back into the open door policy again.

President Charles Anderson stated, no.

Bill Pyle stated, and you’re shaking your head no and I’m saying we would have liked to have heard about it.

President Charles Anderson stated, well, no I don’t know if you are or not.

Attorney Jerry Altman stated, well okay but it doesn’t have any thing to with open door.

Bill Pyle stated, okay do we have any rights to know what’s going on this deal? Do we have any rights as the neighbors around that area to know what was going on this deal?

President Charles Anderson stated, I think that was between them and the area plan commission.

Bill Pyle stated, well it seems kind of foolish to take someone to court and then dodge out of it and you know that case was locked there wasn’t any way he could win that case.

Don Pauken stated, he violated it for how many days?

President Charles Anderson stated, there, there is a limit on how much you can fine a person too and then…

Bill Pyle stated, we’re not talking about the fine, we’re talking about the Circuit…

President Charles Anderson stated, yeah but you are talking about the fine and you are talking about…

Bill Pyle stated, the Circuit Court.

President Charles Anderson stated, but it wasn’t set up that way to fine daily at that time.

Bill Pyle stated, I’m not saying anything about daily.

President Charles Anderson stated, my main concern was to get it over with and done and get it out of there.

Bill Pyle stated, okay but you mentioned when you said that that I was thinking about the people around there. And the people around there didn’t have any input in that.

President Charles Anderson stated, but then they wanted it left there then did they?

Bill Pyle stated, we wanted it to go to circuit court. That’s what he did he took it to circuit I mean he set down there and didn’t do any thing you had to do something to save face.

President Charles Anderson stated, no.

Bill Pyle stated, and then you let him off for 300 bucks.

President Charles Anderson stated, yeah 800 dollars the fine.

Bill Pyle stated, you mean…

President Charles Anderson stated, the original fine that got and the 300 dollars for court costs.

Bill Pyle stated, there was another 500 dollar fine.

President Charles Anderson stated, no it was a total of 800.

Don Pauken stated, it was 300 dollars.

Don Pauken stated, Don Pauken again real quickly I don’t think you said that correctly Charlie as far as the ordinance says 25 dollars a day to 500 dollars a day and it’s right here and it’s current that he can be fined.

President Charles Anderson stated, right but we would have had to bring that up at a meeting and impose that fine at that time we couldn’t have done it at the end of that period of time if hadn’t already of…

Don Pauken stated, and he also Diann’s letter said that.

President Charles Anderson stated, you got that with you don’t you?

Director Weaver stated, no I don’t.

Don Pauken stated, he could be fined up to 500 dollars a day.

President Charles Anderson stated, that he could be but we did not impose that fine during that period of time.

Don Pauken stated, exactly.

President Charles Anderson stated, can we get that letter out you want to respond to this at all.

Dow Dellinger stated, I mean, if you want to, on the fine. You know, the executive session has the right to make any decision it wants to with the lawsuit. You know. There’s no open door issue about the lawsuit it’s with area plan commission and the complaint. That’s filed in circuit court. We answered that complaint and we came to a resolution. So I don’t think there’s any thing wrong with the resolution with the suit.

President Charles Anderson stated, okay this the, on August sixteenth. The president proceeds to read the letter (see file) so we had already given the at that point?

Director Weaver stated, yes we had already, yes.

President Charles Anderson stated, and we didn’t submit any more additional fines to them. To me, I just wanted to get the thing taken care of and out of there. If that was wrong, I’m sorry but that’s what I wanted to do. I wanted to clear it up for us and for you guys.

Jay Clawson stated, to add any additional fine we would have had to have another meeting and actually declare a fine, a daily fine.

President Charles Anderson stated, declare a fine on them for a daily fine on that.

Attorney Jerry Altman stated, with notice.

Jay Clawson stated, yeah we would have had the notice and then have a meeting to you know to have the board vote on the additional fine which we didn’t do.

President Charles Anderson stated, that’s what which we didn’t at the time do you want to respond to that either on of you?

Attorney Jerry Altman stated, which didn’t happen.

President Charles Anderson stated, okay but now we’re getting to at the last meeting it was brought back to our attention that we had another violation on this property. Not that property but on the property which to me is on the south side of the road but on the by the west one. West property or lot number one, which is lot number one right there and it was for storing and this was sent to them on October 12, 2005. I received a verbal complaint and on picture from Don Pauken regarding lot one in Korpita’s Corner Subdivision the property is owned by Rangeline Properties. Mr. Pauken’s complaint is that Rangeline Properties is using this property for business use. Which it is not supposed to be because it wasn’t zoned business? Or industrial with his business since October 12th I have received additional photos and have taken some of my own I have attached copies of those pictures I have gone by the property on several occasions but have not taken pictures on all occasions. I am coming to the APC board to see what direction the board would like for me to take regarding this property Okay and did you get these pictures?

Director Weaver stated, the pictures are attached here. It’s all attached right there. That’s what was sent to the board.

President Charles Anderson stated, and these are pictures. You want to? You guys want to come forward and see these pictures?

Charles Mellon stated, we got them, we got them at the last meeting.

Director Weaver stated, you got them in December’s meeting.

Charles Mellon stated, all them pictures, yeah.

President Charles Anderson stated, yeah. Anybody want to look at these pictures at all or you got…

Dow Dellinger stated, we’ve got a few questions on the pictures just if they could be identified and just have Diann answer and I don’t know if want to try and number each one of those.

Attorney Jerry Altman stated, good idea, that’d be a good idea okay.

Dow Dellinger stated, just so we know, Diann gave me black and white pictures I was just gonna work off of those.

Attorney Jerry Altman stated, okay, I’m gonna put the number at the bottom right hand side.

Dow Dellinger stated, just a minute, just a minute Jerry let me look over your shoulder that’s one. is that one?

Attorney Altman stated, that was one yes this ones two.

Dow Dellinger stated, that one’s two.

Attorney Altman stated, this one’s sheet three, that what I’m numbering these sheets not…

Dow Dellinger stated, that’s fine.

Attorney Altman stated, four, got four, and let me go to the bottom of this since I’ve done that this will be five and this would be six.

Dow Dellinger stated, okay.

Attorney Altman stated, and this would be sheet seven still with me and this would be eight and this would be nine still with me?

Dow Dellinger stated, yeah.

Attorney Altman stated, okay use that and what I’m referring to are the for the record the are the photographs that were attached to Director Weaver’s letter at the Doc just read from and I just numbered them sequentially.

Dow Dellinger stated, again my name is Dow Dellinger with the pictures since this is a quasi-judicial hearing.

Don Pauken stated, no it isn’t.

President Charles Anderson stated, why not?

Attorney Altman stated, let him go ahead.

Dow Dellinger stated, I just wanted to I wanted to run the I wanted to run through the pictures just to make that the board was straight with what the pictures really were. Lot one and Diann can do you know where the property line is in that picture because we couldn’t tell from the background where the…

Director Weaver stated, no I did not take that picture.

Dow Dellinger stated, okay.

Director Weaver stated, that picture was provided to me.

Dow Dellinger stated, if you flip to…

Director Weaver stated, that’s why there was a received date on it.

Dow Dellinger stated, and if you if you flip to two do you know where the property line is in that picture?

Director Weaver stated, I can only estimate.

Dow Dellinger stated, and I mean, okay and I think we’re we’ve got several of them there that are going to be tuff to the section number three. Again I’m not sure where the lot line there is and my question is; I assume is the objection with the truck that is sitting maybe on the lot line there. with the picture we had it was difficult to tell what you thought the…

Director Weaver stated, this is a picture that was taken, that I took.

President Charles Anderson stated, no, are you talking about that the dumpster and there is that an automobile there and a trailer?

Director Weaver stated, I believe so.

Dow Dellinger asked, is that like there are a couple of snowmobiles and a vehicle?

Don Pauken stated, we have no problems with those.

Dow Dellinger stated, and a trailer on the sides that we weren’t sure what the objection was. there.

President Charles Anderson asked, isn’t that telephone pole the property line?

Dow Dellinger stated, it’s further, it’s further to the east than that property line but from where it’s difficult in looking at the pictures to tell where the property line is.

Director Weaver stated, it is difficult that is why I gave you, if you turn the page one more time I have provided the board with a picture from the GIS to help with that.

Dow Dellinger stated, and I think Denny would agree with me that the GIS is just a rough estimate of where the property line is.

Dennis Sterrett stated, you do have to click on a disclaimer when you open it up.

Dow Dellinger stated, I mean, it’s difficult to tell with the GIS but even with the pictures. It’s hard to tell what’s on which side of the property line in each one of those pictures and we don’t deny that from time to time one of the guys may have pulled the truck in and parked across the lot. We don’t if you look at picture six we don’t deny that that box got set across the property line. That was Jeff’s dad dropping that off for him and didn’t recognize where the property line was. I think seven again; I’m not sure where the property line is for the objection there on either one of those pages. And then eight looked to me like that was probably the truck sitting across onto lot one. And like we said we don’t deny that from time to time the trucks maybe have parked across the lot when they run into the office and that’s probably happened. But if you look it was only of all these pictures. There’s only four dates that those were taken. Looks to me like several of those are the vehicles there I think that may be what the real objection is just that is just the trucks parking on those locations from time to time.

President Charles Anderson stated, the trucks or any of the dumpsters left on that property is their objection mainly isn’t it. You want to respond to that Mr…

Dow Dellinger stated, and I know in the one picture let’s, I think it’s five. That box that was sat in the afternoon across the lot line Number six. It’s page six. We know that box got dropped. it’s the 10-13-05 picture that box was dropped by Jeff’s dad the day he went to pick up that box so.

David Rosenbarger stated, my question is still, if you’re zonings there and now we’re getting back and I brought this up one other meeting. We’ve got an imaginary lot line how do you know what’s what if the if the owner and his employees don’t know where it’s at why isn’t there.

Dow Dellinger stated, and that’s why…

David Rosenbarger stated, why isn’t there something there I mean if we’re concerned about being caught with something on the side that it’s not suppose to be. Why don’t you put a fence up?

Dow Dellinger stated, and that’s why we’ve come back to ask to rezone it so it’s all industrial surrounded by industrial.

David Rosenbarger stated, right now it’s not.

Dow Dellinger stated, and you’re right.

David Rosenbarger stated, and that’s their issue today is it on the lot or isn’t it?

Dow Dellinger stated, and part of pour argument that we had before the BZA board on Thursday is that we think we can use access in and out of that property no matter what the zoning regulation is we’re not building anything we’re not operating on that.

David Rosenbarger stated, but if you don’t know where the lot line is how do you know where to put the driveway?

Dow Dellinger stated, well because when we set a driveway we’d have it surveyed.

Jay Clawson stated, zone them both the same.

David Rosenbarger stated, so the issue and I, I’m getting maybe getting ahead of that going to the what we’re not suppose to talk about but in question is him parking stuff on something that ‘s not zoned right?

President Charles Anderson stated, correct.

Don Pauken stated, yep.

President Charles Anderson stated, you want to respond here?

Dow Dellinger stated, and we’ve and we admit we’ve been in violation a couple of times on that but where the location is on that’s difficult to say by pictures that we have in front of the board.

Don Pauken stated, Don Pauken again if I could walk over to the drawing here.

President Charles Anderson stated, Don, what’s your drawing of there?

Don Pauken stated, on lot one, it’s very easy to find the line. Here’s, there’s the line between lot one and lot two. If you sight this is almost halfway between the front of the Quonset and the front of the garage. Those two buildings are still there so it’s almost halfway between. If you go by and look down there and see something that’s back in this region notice that this has a set back here where some of these violations occur. If you sight this way down when you make the turn on 300 if the vehicle behind that one this line is in line with the side of the garage. If it’s back there it’s there and that’s how the pictures are taken with as soon as you could sight both of those lines and if there is anything behind them, that’s it. It’s a violation. This is where they get in trouble right in here.

President Charles Anderson stated, that’s still kind of an arbitrary line though it’s hard to judge that.

Don Pauken stated, it’s halfway between if you look down this line it’s right in line if you look down this along the garage it’s all on that line. What more do you need? You want to get a surveyor out there to check it no they’re not put in stakes in.

President Charles Anderson stated, but then they have agreed that they have at times put…

Don Pauken stated, yes, too often.

President Charles Anderson stated, at least several different times they’ve put which they shouldn’t put anything over there at all unless it does get zoned the way they’re wanting to rezone it. The commissioners have any questions about this? Do you guys have anything else to present?

Bill Pyle stated, well just that, Bill Pyle, just that…

Attorney Altman stated, Bill please speak into the mic, it just doesn’t pick up very well.

Bill Pyle stated, okay, just that we’re starting to feel there might be a little bias here, with the deals being made and the ordinances being broken.

President Charles Anderson stated, I didn’t make a deal with anybody I went through my lawyer just to tell him to get it done.

Bill Pyle stated, there was a deal between lawyers made wasn’t there?

President Charles Anderson stated, that’s what lawyers do.

Bill Pyle stated, okay that’s why I called it a deal it’s a deal they made a deal and we had no impute or anything. It gets to the point where everything’s kind of getting one sided he gets out I mean the ordinances says that he bargain…

President Charles Anderson stated, I don’t think I’ve been one sided at all in here as far as letting you guys speak your speak as you want to and letting them speak as they want to too on that…

Bill Pyle stated, okay well what I’m saying is how many months did he break it on the four acres and you know you gave him a five hundred dollar fine and it took months twelve eight months to get him off of there.

President Charles Anderson stated, yeah the main thing was I wanted to get him off of there if he would have resisted past that point then I would of…

Bill Pyle stated, well you waited eight months, Charlie.

President Charles Anderson stated, then we were going to put more of it on there too we only meet once a month and some times if nobody all of us aren’t her e either.

Bill Pyle stated, all right last meeting last week last meeting we had here…

President Charles Anderson stated, last month.

Bill Pyle stated, last month you said the next time he does it there’s going to be a fine.

President Charles Anderson stated, well he already has done it so there is going to be a fine.

Bill Pyle stated, okay tonight’s the next time.

President Charles Anderson stated, and if any additional time would tell unless he gets it rezoned to where it wouldn’t be a violation each additional time there could we can apply another five hundred dollar fine couldn’t we to each time…

Attorney Altman stated, to each violation.

President Charles Anderson stated, and we can find that out tonight whether the board would like to do that too or not.

Bill Pyle stated, you know these are the things that’s worrying us it’s if he’s willing to violate the ordinance now what’s he willing to do…

President Charles Anderson stated, let’s wait until he comes back for that.

Bill Pyle stated, well you know but I mean I keep bringing this up.

President Charles Anderson stated, we’re only going to get into another whole can of worms and we’re going to open that up at the next meeting when they bring it back to us on that so. So do I have any suggestions for the commissioners what we should do on the violation that we had on this one?

Jay Clawson stated, wait until we have a full board that’s all that I can…

David Rosenbarger stated, Yeah we thought.

Don Ward stated, yeah there’s only four of us here or five.

Attorney Altman stated, did you make a motion?

President Charles Anderson stated, there’s six.

Attorney Altman stated, then you make a motion.

Jay Clawson stated, well I’d move that we wait until we have a full board to make the determination of what kind of fine we want to levy on him.

President Charles Anderson stated, you know we probably won’t ever have a full board.

Jay Clawson stated, well or closer to a board.

Attorney Altman stated, but the simplest.

David Rosenbarger stated, is it because of these pictures is that what the fine is that he’s parked stuff on the lot line.

President Charles Anderson stated, and Diann had been out there too you had gone out and looked at it too didn’t you?

Director Weaver stated, yes some of these pictures are ones that I’ve taken.

President Charles Anderson stated, and it you know. If they wanted to come against us for that, I mean, we can use her and I think try a counter suit back on us or try to appeal the fine. she was out there and saw these part of these in violation so do we need a full or…

Charles Mellon stated, at the next meeting we may have eight or nine I’ve only seen ten here a couple times and I don’t think any of are in Florida and they should be coming…

President Charles Anderson stated, and of course if we try to impose a fine and only…

Jay Clawson stated, two people vote for it.

Attorney Altman stated, you have a motion.

President Charles Anderson stated, the fine wouldn’t be the…

Attorney Altman stated, you have a motion on the floor.

President Charles Anderson stated, okay the motion was…

Charles Mellon stated, I’d second.

Jay Clawson stated, to table this fine.

President Charles Anderson stated, so be it it’s tabled till the next meeting.

David Rosenbarger stated, I disagree.

President Charles Anderson stated, do you, okay we got a disagreement but okay we better take a vote on it then.

Attorney Altman stated, me yeah, you clarified the motion and tabled it till the next meeting.

President Charles Anderson stated, let’s bring it back again.

Attorney Altman stated, is that correct? What we’re voting on.

President Charles Anderson stated, that’s what we’re voting on whether it to be tabled to the next meeting and I’d say show your right hand if you’re in favor of tabling till the next meeting and your left hand if you’re not so…

Attorney Altman stated, three to two.

President Charles Anderson stated, three four to…

Jay Clawson stated, well what did you do?

President Charles Anderson stated, I voted, I voted for it.

Jay Clawson stated, oh you voted first, I didn’t see you raise your hand.

Attorney Altman stated, three to two Yeah he did.

President Charles Anderson stated, it’d have to be Four, two.

Jay Clawson stated, it would have to be four, two.

President Charles Anderson stated, four, two so it’s tabled till the next meeting now, okay if there’s any violations until the next meeting would that be separate violation?

Jay Clawson stated, add them all and deal with them all at that time.

David Rosenbarger stated, how do you figure that?

President Charles Anderson stated, but it would be a separate violation from the violation we’re talking about right now.

Jay Clawson stated, that’s crazy. So he could move six combines on that lot and set them there because it’s an agricultural lot and let them set there and he would not be in any kind of violation at all. But if he sets one dumpster on that lot he’s in, he’s in violation in. I don’t know…

Jeff VanWeelden stated, even though it’s moved within you know two hours like or five minutes if a driver pulls in to go and get paperwork and comes back out and he just pulled in the drive got out to you know instead of backing in…

President Charles Anderson stated, It’s not zoned for the use that you’re trying to use it for at times. It’s and if…

Jay Clawson stated, well how many other places are zoned that, I mean across the county or kept in that type of compliance.

President Charles Anderson stated, then we’re getting…

Jay Clawson stated, even on Hanawalt Road there’s several people that are running businesses off the property that aren’t even zoned properly and there has never been a thing said about any of those guys.

President Charles Anderson stated, there has been some things said but…

Jay Clawson said you know…

President Charles Anderson stated, they know that they’re being watched and they know that they've been in violation.

Jay Clawson stated, under a microscope yes, I understand.

President Charles Anderson stated, but that you know that is their prerogative to do that I mean this is a free country and they can do as they please and they can come to all these meetings as they please it’s…

Jay Clawson stated, that’s fine I don’t have a problem with that just do we have to fine him every time he has one minor infraction?

President Charles Anderson stated, no but that could be brought up as another infraction at the time their…

Jay Clawson stated, well then I guess that’s true that we can.

President Charles Anderson stated, but and hopefully he wouldn’t do that, or try to do that or hopefully he went to school. If he doesn’t have that much control over his business to where he can tell those people where to put their things. Or if he doesn’t want them to run on Rangeline

Road he ought to be able to tell his people not to run Rangeline Road, to come in from a different direction.

Dow Dellinger stated, Hanawalt.

President Charles Anderson stated, Hanawalt I mean.

Dow Dellinger stated, Hanawalt, I understand.

Bill Pyle stated, I want to say something. Mr. Clawson if I’m not mistaken you’re on this board…

President Charles Anderson stated, do you want to state your name?

Bill Pyle stated, Bill Pyle, you’re on this board to enforce the ordinances in this county.

Jay Clawson stated, exactly right.

Bill Pyle stated, you’re saying things here tonight that you don’t think that you can do that do you want to resign your job if you can’t enforce the ordinances you shouldn’t be here.

President Charles Anderson stated, yeah now we’re getting into a whole different subject that’s not.

Jay Clawson stated, exactly.

Bill Pyle stated, no I don’t he said that.

Jay Clawson stated, you’re out of line.

President Charles Anderson stated, no but that’s not agenda and tonight is not the night to discuss it.

Bill Pyle stated, no you said that.

Jay Clawson stated, you’re out of line that’s not what I said at all.

Bill Pyle stated, what did you say?

Jay Clawson stated, that for every infraction I…

Bill Pyle stated, you don’t think every 20 seconds if he parks a car there it’s an infraction, 20 seconds.

Jay Clawson stated, that’s your opinion.

Bill Pyle stated, it’s part of his business and he’s not zoned and that’s your job to enforce those ordinances. Thank You.

President Charles Anderson stated, do we have any body else want to respond at all right now okay. Next on the business we’ll be addressing the ordinance and I don’t think we’ve got anything to report on that.

Director Weaver stated, no I apologize I have not had the opportunity to prepare those for you.

President Charles Anderson stated, and on the improvements location permits and fee schedules.

Director Weaver stated, again I do not have that ready.

President Charles Anderson stated, did I hear a motion to adjourn.

Director Weaver stated, I do have attorney’s fees. I don’t think I got these mailed to you but we did have a bill for Joe Bumbleburg. For, regarding a Board of Zoning Appeals matter and it is for the amount of $429.18. I just need approval to pay that and then they wanted…

President Charles Anderson stated, what was it for?

Director Weaver stated, they wanted the Mr. Bumbleburg to review and help in interpret a situation for the board of zoning appeals where they had implemented a fine.

President Charles Anderson stated, So we got to…

Charles Mellon stated, was he up here on that?

Director Weaver stated, he met with me at the office.

Charles Mellon stated, okay.

President Charles Anderson stated, do we have a motion on that?

Jay Clawson stated, I move we pay it.

David Rosenbarger stated, I second.

Jay Clawson stated, if it’s okay by BZA too yah I mean.

Director Weaver stated, that’s all I have.

President Charles Anderson stated, okay do we have a motion for adjournment or anything?

David Rosenbarger made a motion to adjourn.

Dennis Sterrett seconded the motion.

The meeting adjourned.

Respectfully submitted,

Donald W. Ward, Secretary

White County Area Plan Commission

Diann Weaver, Director

White County Area Plan Commission