Get Adobe Flash player


The White County Area Plan Commission met Monday, April 10, 2006, at 7:30 p.m. in the Commissioners’ Meeting Room, Second Floor, County Building, Monticello, Indiana.

Members attending were: Jay Clawson, Gary Barbour, Charles Mellon, Donald W. Ward, Dennis Sterrett, Greg Bossaer, Robert Thomas, and David Scott. Also attending were Attorney Altman and Director Weaver.

Visitors Attending were: Gregory A. Jacobs, George Peters, Dorothy Peters, Jackie Starr, Mike Buffington, Terry Beasy, Noel Lyons, Larry Kilmer, Craig Cook, Kevin Lachmund, Brian Cain, John Brettnacher, Matt Walker, Mac Walker, Bill Burgess, Roger Niehaus Jr., Tina Spiner, Don Pauken, and Kent Blume.

The meeting was called to order by Vice President Jay Clawson and roll call was taken. Don Ward made a motion to dispense with reading and approve the minutes of the March 13, 2006 meeting. Motion was seconded by Greg Bossaer and carried unanimously.


#904 George E. & Dorothy J. Peters; The property is located on .133 of an acre, .027 of an acre, and 1.171of an acre, Part SW SW 10-28-3, located West of Buffalo at 6099 E State Road 16.

Violation: None

Request: They are requesting to rezone from A-1 to B-2.

The recorder was not running so this is a summary of what went on.

Vice President Jay Clawson read the request and asked if there was any one representing this request.

Dorothy Peters stepped up to the front and introduced herself. She stated that they wanted to bring the property into compliance. There was currently an Ice Cream Stand on the property.

A Board member asked how long the business had been on the property.

Dorothy Peters stated that there used to be a Video Store and then it was changed to an Ice Cream Stand. She gave the approximate dates of when the businesses went on the property.

Director Weaver asked if they were also selling cars on the property.

Dorothy Peters stated no they were not. The cars that were on the property were their grandson’s cars that he had asked to park on the property.

Some of the Board members asked Director Weaver if they could sell cars in a B-2 zoning.

Director Weaver responded that yes they could.

Roger Niehaus stepped forward and introduced himself. He stated that they were selling cars on the property and that the cars were being bought at the same auction that he went to. Mr. Niehaus presented 4 pages of pictures to the board, marked as Exhibit A.

At this point the recorder started and the rest of this meeting is transcribed as follows:

Roger Niehaus stated, and as far as I know there was never even no permits obtained for anything there. There shouldn’t even be buildings there.

Jay Clawson stated, you stated that there was an under ground tank.

Roger Niehaus stated, yes, he’s got a barrel buried in the ground for a sewer system.

Jay Clawson stated, for a sewage system?

Roger Niehaus stated, yeah he told me that I could get away with it out at my place if I just shut my mouth because you don’t have to do things like that right in White County because he knows people. Me and him used to be friends and we are no longer friends.

Charles Mellon stated, there’s a lot of those fifty gallon drums up in that area.

Roger Niehaus stated, yeah there sure is.

Charles Mellon stated, that’s a rural area. And Buffalo is not incorporated.

Roger Niehaus stated, so it’s legal to bury a fifty-five gallon drum?

Charles Mellon stated, there’s no rules against the five gallon drum. I mean a fifty five gallon drum for a septic system.

Roger Niehaus stated, for a sewage system?

Charles Mellon stated, until the sewer board comes up there. And that will be a few years yet.

Roger Niehaus stated, that’s legal but serving food…

Attorney Altman stated, let him talk. We won’t interrupt you, if you don’t interrupt him.

Roger Niehaus stated, no problem.

Charles Mellon stated, I don’t know about certain food. I know they’ve got an ice cream shop and I suppose food, sandwiches or something might go along with it. If it wasn’t legal, I think the Health Department would have been up there a long time before now.

Roger Niehaus stated, he claims he knows somebody real well in the county and gives him free ice cream to turn the other cheek.

Charles Mellon stated, who are you talking about, he? Who’s he?

Roger Niehaus stated, somebody on the Commissioner’s Board. That’s all I can say, that’s all I know. I don’t know who but he has got a personal friend on the Commissioner’s Board, he gives him and his family free ice cream. Guarantees no problems.

Charles Mellon stated, you think these cars come from an auction?

Roger Niehaus stated, them cars did not. But I can, I can get you a list of the automobiles that did. That he personally purchased and sold out there. I can get you that list.

Dave Scott stated, can he sell cars on a B-2?

Director Weaver stated, yes.

Charles Mellon stated, the last ten years since I’ve been to town, I have been to all kinds of auctions. Cause that’s all I do, I drive cars for four dealers.

Roger Niehaus stated, P & L auto pool?

Charles Mellon stated, and I never seen any Peters relation or anybody that was connected with the Peters, buying cars or taking cars away from…

Roger Niehaus stated, P & L auto pool? P and L auto pool salvage pool, Lake Village Indiana.

Charles Mellon stated, yeah I know, I know your business.

Roger Niehaus stated, he buys there all the time. That is a dealer only sell. I don’t know how he’s getting away with it, but he is buying cars out of there and reselling them off that property. Like I say, but we’ll go get a list, if you require a list and I’ll bring it back.

Jay Clawson stated, but he was running a business before they had…

Director Weaver stated, I don’t know about the cars.

Jay Clawson stated, well, I mean, but he was running a retail business in there before they adopted the Zoning…

Director Weaver stated, I can’t verify that. I don’t know that for fact.

Roger Niehaus stated, he had strictly a video store up until I think it was ’02 or ’03. It was strictly Country Video. It was a video store.

Jay Clawson stated, right, but we have not had any violations on this before this? Right?

Director Weaver stated, not that I’m aware of, no.

Dorothy Peters stated, can I say something about the sewer system?

Jay Clawson stated, sure.

Dorothy Peters stated, Betty Flora was out there when we put our sewer system in, so I don’t think I’ve got a fifty five gallon, whatever he says about that, so.

Attorney Altman stated, go to the mic, please. Tell us about what kind of sewer system you installed. Who installed it?

Dorothy Peters stated, I don’t remember the name of the people, it’s been too many years ago.

Attorney Altman stated, when was it?

Dorothy Peters stated, well it would have been probably ’91 or ’92 when we put the video store in. We had to have a bathroom in there.

Charles Mellon stated, Bob Bowsher might have. He done a lot of them up there.

Dorothy Peters stated, he may have.

George Peters stated, may I speak?

Attorney Altman stated, yeah.

George Peters stated, Mike Ezra, George Peters. Mike Ezra installed every thing I had up there and Mrs. Flora came out and inspected every piece of that went in there. Okay that was straight right there and I ain’t going to worry about it.

Roger Niehaus stated, what about the cars and P & L?

Attorney Altman stated, whoa wait a second, we’re asking the questions. So Mike Ezra installed it and it was inspected by the White County Health Department?

George Peters stated, yes, Flora, yes it’s all on the record back here. It’s all on the record that’s here.

Attorney Altman stated, do you have copies of the…

George Peters stated, yeah it’s in the record here. I‘ve got copies of it, not with me, I didn’t think I needed that but, yeah everything has been inspected by the Health Inspector.

Attorney Altman stated, and again when was it installed?

George Peters stated, Oh golly, back in the 1990, ’91.

Attorney Altman stated, okay thank you.

George Peters stated, cause it was probably, there was fifteen hundred foot leach bed there and a brand new tank, a thousand gallons or two thousand gallon tank there, which Charles’s probably seen. And the store, there was a video store and an ice cream store at one time. And everything’s legal and I bought a car one time off a couple people and my son’s have bought some cars and my grandsons got all their cars there. Trucks, four wheel drives they park there now because they asked grandpa to bring them, to sell them so that’s what’s up there in the buffalo area.

Attorney Altman stated, tell us about your well.

George Peters stated, it’s about forty foot deep and it’s got a five inch casing and natural springs running through that area and it’s legal, they’ve checked the well and everything.

Attorney Altman stated, who, put in down?

George Peters stated, oh my, they put it down in 1990, it’s from Lafayette, I can’t remember the guy’s name…

Charles Mellon stated, Finnley?

George Peters stated, Finnley I think it was, yeah. Okay, he’d done that. And I bought the ground there off of Linback and the lady that owned it before there was already a building there. Which grandfathered in and I bought that off them and then I had to buy a little bit more land because he wanted to sell a little bit more of it so I bought ten or eleven foot more off to add on to it. Then I bought some more behind us. And that’s about the best, I’ve been there a long time.

Attorney Altman stated, when was the last time the Health Department inspected you?

George Peters stated, she does every year. Twice a year down, see I’m getting ready to open. She’ll be coming in the next week or two.

Dorothy Peters stated, Marie Green was just in…

George Peters stated, Oh she can. Yeah they’ve took care of it, I mean. She will be in to take care of it and do everything and that’s all I can tell you about it. It’s just a little acre of ground with a good business and I’ve got a lot of friends. I don’t know he said something about Commissioners, well all the Commissioners, I think know me don’t they Charlie? I‘ve been around that area for sixty seven years I think everybody knows me. Okay guys.

Jay Clawson stated, okay thank you.

Roger Niehaus stated, can I speak again?

Jay Clawson stated, You’ve got something more? Different? Other than…

Roger Niehaus stated, yes I do. Fifteen years ago when I came to this area and started a business, in order to do what he just done, I had to come before one of these meetings. I had to have the zoning and approval to open up a business. He has not, there is nothing in any records that give him any permission to open up a video store. And that was roughly about the same time, same area, same everything. So he has been operating illegal since day one. Nobody in this, in this office has granted him permission legally to open business doors of any type.

Jay Clawson stated, we didn’t have that when was zoning, Area Plan zoning adopted in Liberty. Township?

Charles Mellon stated, it wasn’t in yet.

Roger Niehaus stated, it was Area Plan, it didn’t have anything to do with the zoning.

Charles Mellon stated, ninety five, ninety five, I think.

Roger Niehaus stated, it was permission from the County to open a business.

Don Ward stated, yeah but Liberty landfill did not fall under the Area Plan…

Roger Niehaus stated, I did and I was right there. I’m closer to Liberty than he is.

Jay Clawson stated, We’re not going to argue with you. We’ve heard your testimony and I don’t think that that’s pertinent because if they were open before 1993 when they adopted zoning. If there were businesses there they were all adopted.

Roger Niehaus stated, there wasn’t.

Charles Mellon stated, ninety-one. He said ninety-one.

Roger Niehaus stated, cause he opened up after we opened up and he just opened up.

Jay Clawson stated, cause if they were in continuous operation and hadn’t been closed for…

Roger Niehaus stated, in fact I think we had to come to two of these meetings and we’re right down from the dump. We’re a mile and a half from the dump and he’s three miles from the dump.

Jay Clawson stated, thank you.

Roger Niehaus stated, you’re welcome.

Jay Clawson stated, is there anyone else in the audience that…

Bill Burgess stated, Bill Burgess. I just, I have the farm that’s directly behind the property involved and I wanted to be sure that wasn’t going to affect me. I have, I raise livestock back there.

Charles Mellon stated, are you across the ditch?

Bill Burgess stated, no. The other side of the ditch.

Charles Mellon stated, down next to Lee or…

Bill Burgess stated, Elvis.

Charles Mellon stated, the machine shop?

Bill Burgess stated, no down further East. All the way down I don’t know what the address would be there.

Charles Mellon stated, East from their place or their shop?

Bill Burgess stated, yeah.

Charles Mellon stated, there’s nothing down there only another two or three trailers court until you get to Joey’s. Joe camper outfit stuff. East along 16.

Bill Burgess stated, we, I’m directly behind the, the ice cream parlor. I’ve got four acres back there.

Dave Scott stated, can you show us on here?

Jay Clawson stated, show us on the map.

Bill Burgess stated, I don’t have my glasses.

George Peters stated, theirs is the property that they’re talking about. And this is West, that’s East.

Charles Mellon stated, you say you have four acres behind their shop?

Bill Burgess stated, yes sir.

Charles Mellon stated, before it gets to the ditch? You must be spread out a long ways.

Bill Burgess stated, it’s spread out a long ways and then it goes across over the ditch and then it goes back another two acres that way.

Charles Mellon stated, do you go clear back to the black top going North?

Bill Burgess stated, no.

Charles Mellon stated, well I don’t see how you could get four acres in there.

Bill Burgess stated, do you know where Elvis White lives?

Charles Mellon stated, no. Is that the guy that had the welder shop?

Attorney Altman stated, if you would go back to the mic. To answer your question that this would be just a B-2 zoning if it were approved and that it would be something fairly similar to what they’re operating right now.

Bill Burgess stated, that’s what I was told but I wanted to be sure that it wasn’t going to affect me.

Charles Mellon stated, of course it wouldn’t be as close as the ice cream shop to the back end there. The ice cream shop would be back farther, it is now.

Bill Burgess stated, it wouldn’t affect me then. I just don’t want to loose the right to have animals back there.

Charles Mellon stated, oh, I don’t think that would bother them.

Bill Burgess stated, okay that’s all I wanted.

Attorney Altman stated, thank you.

Roger Niehaus stated, can I just say one more thing? The only reason he’s here to rezone, he sold the property and he’s got to make it right. Thank you.

Charles Mellon stated, is that sold?

Dorothy Peters stated, no it’s not sold.

Jay Clawson stated, well, that’s really not pertinent anyway.

Dorothy Peters stated, okay, it is not sold.

Jay Clawson stated, because if there is any improvements that have to be done to the property the certain screening would have to done between changes in zoning like between the fencing and stuff like that would have to be installed. Right between A-1 and…

Director Weaver stated, I believe that’s through, by residential…

Jay Clawson stated, just only by residential side?

Director Weaver stated, I’ll look that up Jay.

Jay Clawson stated, okay. But they would have to adhere to any setbacks if they changed any of the buildings. Right now that is something that is out of compliance that we’re just really bringing into compliance. And I think it’s a forward move on our part to…

George Peters stated, I’m just fixing it up to fix it down the line. When I’m dead, I’m giving it to my daughter and stuff and I want to make sure everything is straight anyway. That’s cause she’s gonna get it and I’m, and she can build what she wants to on it. And somebody told me I had to do this zoning to keep it that way. So that’s the reason why it’s in the trust. Okay.

Jay Clawson stated, is there any other questions on the board?

Director Weaver stated, this states that any business for industrial use that if that affects an area zoned or used for residential purposes must have a fence.

Jay Clawson stated, okay. If there’s no other questions I think we should vote.

The results of the vote were as follows: 8 affirmative and 0 negative. This will be presented to the County Commissioners for their action.

Attorney Altman stated, this will be next Monday at eight thirty in the morning right Diann?

Director Weaver stated, yes.

Attorney Altman stated, next Monday 8:30 in the morning and that will probably be next door. I presume they will be in there by then. And they have the final say so if you want to be involved, be there.


#905 Eva Burl Yerk, Owner; James M. Walker, Applicant; The property is located on 2.00 acres, Part of the SE SE 8-25-5, located Northwest of Brookston at 7059 W. 900 S.

Violation: None

Request: He is requesting to rezone from A-1 to I-1.

Jay Clawson stated, is there anyone representing this?

James Walker stated, I’m James M. Walker. I own the business there M & T Repair Service. We’re requesting to rezoning to facilitate a need with our customer base and expanding the buildings. We need to build a couple larger buildings for doing our shop work in. We’ve been there almost twenty-four years. Right now we have six employees, we’re looking at expansion at up to two to four more employees. I guess I don’t know anything else that need answered right now. If you have any questions, I’d be glad to.

Robert Thomas stated, is the house still on the property?

James Walker stated, mmm… it’s still there.

Robert Thomas stated, am I right Diann? That if the house was to burn you could not rebuild.

James M. Walker stated, yes, I am.

Robert Thomas stated, okay.

Director Weaver stated, I would like to add that Mr. Walker has supplied me a letter when I was out at his property from Frontier School Corporation and I have supplied a copy of that to the board members tonight. Also, he gave me a letter that I’ve given to Jerry Altman before the meeting.

Attorney Altman stated, do you have anything else to say about it?

James Walker stated, not at the moment. If you have any questions I can answer on need of improvements which we are requesting.

Attorney Altman stated, okay. I do have before me a letter that was received by our department.

Attorney Altman continued to read the letter. (See File)

Attorney Altman stated, and also was received a letter that Diann just indicated. And I’ll read it into the record. It’s from Co-Alliance.

Attorney Altman continued to read the letter. (See File)

Attorney Altman stated, anything else, Diann that you want me to read into record?

Director Weaver stated, no.

Robert Thomas stated, I see a letter here from Lyle Yerk also. That states that he’s in favor of it. I know Lyle really well. If he say it’s…

Charles Mellon stated, that’s the ground it’s on…

Robert Thomas stated, right, if he says it’s good, yeah. And I’ve been to Max business and you can eat off the floors in there. So…

Attorney Altman stated, okay I found that letter and I’ll read it.

Attorney Altman continues to read the letter. (See File)

Attorney Altman stated, thank you for telling me the story.

Robert Thomas stated, well, Lyle’s a good person and I know he wouldn’t have wrote this letter if he didn’t believe it.

Jay Clawson stated, Diann I just have a quick question. Why is it because you requested him that he go with I-1 on this request or…?

Director Weaver stated, no, his other property is currently zoned an I-1.

Jay Clawson stated, oh, okay just to have like, like zoning on both pieces. Okay. Cause I was wondering. Cause a lot of the scheduled uses he could get by with a B-2 for his auto repair and stuff. You’re not planning on changing anything just that’s just what it previously is?

James Walker stated, yes.

Jay Clawson stated, and you just want to keep it the same? Okay. Thank you. Is there any other questions from anyone in the audience about this property or, come to the microphone.

Craig Cook stated, my name is Craig Cook. I live on the next piece of property North of Mac. About a half a mile and I have no problems with his zoning changes either. I think it’s a good business. I know he does good work. Where my concern and my interest comes in is lack of drainage that is not in place there. I just want something in the notes that right now where he has hauled in stone there and built this piece of property up. That he has just recently acquired and what was there before, the water was draining off where it falls in the county ditch, over that and out on to Seven Hundred where he uses most of his access there. I just wanted to be sure that there is some kind of drainage taken care of. Either under the stone or a retainer, there is no defined entrance and exit. Looking at roughly a thousand feet swing in with a semi, swing out with a semi, unloading machinery parallel with the road. Trucks are half on Seven Hundred, half on this stone that he has dumped. You go by there, you got forklifts coming out off loading freight that he receives. I have no problem with the business. And I do have one snap shot I want to send around, can I?

Attorney Altman stated, sure. Let me have it and I’ll mark it. Mr. Cook here, what is your first name?

Craig Cook stated, Craig.

Jay Clawson stated, before he puts a building in will he have to have a review of the drainage or…

Dennis Sterrett stated, it didn’t require it because it was under ten thousand square feet. And I’m not sure about the gravel.

Craig Cook stated, right here is where your existing drainage where your side ditch would be. Right there is a covert that goes under that railroad. This gravel has been drug out here as you can see. The little run around here, Four or five feet out on that road. As you can see the date April third a week ago today a light drizzle, all this water is draining out onto the county road. So you’ve got to get completely over away from that to keep from hydroplaning or freezing in the winter.

Attorney Altman stated, okay, let me circulate them around to the board so they can see and see what your concern is. Thank you Mr. Cook.

Craig Cook stated, like I say, I’ve known Max a long time and he should be able to expand and I just feel that there should be something in the notes. To, you know, for everyone to kind of take a look at that before it’s just signed sealed to whoever. That’s about all, thank you.

Attorney Altman stated, that’s Mr. Craig Cook’s Exhibit A that we are circulating as form of a photograph that showed looking North, right Mr. Cook?

Craig Cook stated, that’s looking South.

Attorney Altman stated, South, I’m sorry. I guessed wrong. By the business on Seven Hundred West.

James Walker stated, Okay, first of all this picture’s showing existing gravel and drainage that has been here since 1973. I have not added or changed one thing from this area here, down to here since 1973. Anything I have changed and Mr. Cook is correct, we’ve had to load and unload machinery on the county highway off this side because we did not have the area to do that and it sometimes could have been a safety issue. But with the increased lot size there are no forklifts unloading or loading at all near the highway. So this area right here I think Diann took pictures the other direction if she has those which show the newer addition. But this here has been there since 1973. Before any, to go back to the drainage issue, one of the provisions from buying the ground from day one from Mr. Yerk beyond the existing old structure which was put up in 1988. Was anything, any surface water off of any new building had to be put into a drainage tile. There is no surface water coming off of any of the new structures past the first original building. It’s all in tile. Secondly, I went to the Drainage Board and told them I mean, asked what would be requested and I was told that they did not meet the minimum for requiring service drainage. At that time I still for my own reasons, volunteered two to three surface drains at my own expense. The stone added along the two hundred-foot area addition on the road was not done without permission from the county. I went to the County Highway Superintendent, told him what we needed to do to get semis in and out. To unload in a proper area and he said that was the proper way to handle it. So it was not done without any one’s permission.

Jay Clawson stated, okay, but we were just kind of interested. When you said you, have you already installed the extra surface drains?

James Walker stated, no, that’s a provision, I can’t build with the contract that I have with the present ownlet, landowner without doing that.

Jay Clawson stated, okay, there are going to be some extra drains to help drain off this hard surface, right.

James Walker stated, yes, and my understanding that’s done totally on a volunteer basis since I am under the square footage and I just want to show that I’m going to go over and beyond the point to not cause a problem.

Jay Clawson stated, right and we like your good faith. That you say you are going to do this because with that extra hard surface, you know, the rains that we’ve been having lately it seems like whenever we get a rain it’s two or three inches at a time.

James Walker stated, well, the pictures which Diann took after the rain there was no water on the road.

Jay Clawson stated, right. Which is good, I mean, we just don’t want a problem later down and you sound like you’re willing to do things to remedy what, you know, you’ll have from your hard surfacing. I think that’s what the board wants to hear isn’t it?

James Walker stated, I don’t want complaints. I want to comply.

Jay Clawson stated, I understand.

Robert Thomas stated, we don’t want the drainage out on the road.

Jay Clawson stated, right. That’s the big thing. We don’t want your water sitting out on the road from there.

James Walker stated, there is presently, no construction made past 1990 that drains anywhere but into a tile.

Jay Clawson stated, okay. Thank you. Anybody else have anything else they want to say?

Craig Cook stated, well, I just want to add to that, that I talked to Steve Burton and I talked to Steve Brook both, myself and they told me that this would be taken care of after the building. That, that would have to be cleaned up where the water doesn’t, and I’m not saying it comes off the building. I know there’s drainage there. I know it goes under ground. It’s coming from the packed stone there and detouring the water out onto the County Road. That’s my concern.

Attorney Altman stated, okay, thank you Mr. Cook.

Craig Cook stated, I spoke with those people myself as well.

Larry Kilmer stated, Larry Kilmer. Speaking on behalf of Eva and Lyle. That would be my father in-law and mother in-law and I’m the tenant working the ground. And I’ve been told that all water issues are resolved from Lyle and Eva. That they have an agreement and that if there is any problem with the farm and restriction of my farming with water, that Max will take care of it.

So that agreement has been taken care of. That’s my two cents.

Jay Clawson stated, okay, thank you very much. Anyone else on this matter? No, okay. I say we bring this to a vote.

The results of the vote were as follows: 8 affirmative and 0 negative. This will be presented to the County Commissioners for their action.

Attorney Altman stated, everybody understand that? They have the final say. Thank you.


#06-4 Gregory A. & Jerrielyn Jacobs; Requesting approval of a Planned Unit Development to be known as Windward on 4.39 acres, Part SE 28-26-3. The property is located South of Monticello, off of South Oakdale Road and at the end of Upper Hambridge Road on the White County-Carroll County line.

Jay Clawson stated, representing that project would be…

Greg Jacobs stated, good evening. I’m Greg Jacobs. This, for some of you who have been on the board maybe three years or better, some of you if you go back to ninety-six. Hopefully with your blessings this will be the last time this parcel of land is brought before you. The difference between now and the first two times; we bought this parcel back in ninety-six. And originally, this was plotted lots one through eight of the Richey Park Addition and for whatever reason this as well as the land directly North of us up to Richey Park Lane was vacated. We have a twenty five foot strip that comes right along the north side of the Carroll County line that access this and at this time this was the only land we had. And we went ahead and had it approved for another eight lot single family subdivision. And we instead of building as intended for personal use. We just kept acquiring some land and then in ’03, probably April, May of ’03 we had approached the board and you approved a preliminary plan to do that. At that time we did what I would say threw some triplexes, if you will on a drawing. And we brought to you and you approved a up to sixteen units, living dwellings in a configuration of anywhere from one to four. We could have four quads or whatever. It was a multiple from anything from one to a duplex to a triplex. We have done, we have acquired some more land and basically we are pretty well done with that. And we have done some substantial land planning and architectural design and what I’ve done with the supplemental information that I’ve given you today is; even though, we’re here for White County. I tried to show what is Phase One that really encompasses Carroll County as well as the White County section. In addition, you’ll notice that there is a, what we call to that goes all the way to Richey Park Lane or Richey Park Drive, excuse me. There’s a section that measures about an acre and a half an acre and three quarters that we, we’ve always owned acreage on Richey Park Drive, Road but we just, just Saturday were able to close on the part that connected between the two. And so that’s the reason why all though I know we probably could have got the applicant’s signature on it. We wanted to wait until we knew we had ownership of it but so I felt it probably proved to talk about that section with this because the same neighbors. There is no additional neighbors that adjoin that. We own the property to the North. The Cetera’s are to the East and the Bick’s are the same neighbors to the West. So we intend to file that Wednesday to bring that in to the over all plan development. The…

Attorney Altman stated, excuse me, for the record. Greg just to kind of tie it down. You have Phase One here that you have presented tonight, right?

Greg Jacobs stated, right.

Attorney Altman stated, for us to look at and have an idea of what you are talking about, as you say, right?

Greg Jacobs stated, right.

Attorney Altman stated, and then on looking at phasing plans of Windward Communities that is dated 3-29-06 by C & S Engineering and it shows Phase One Future in per-end. That’s the tract of ground that you are talking about, that you are adding to this Phase One proposal?

Greg Jacobs stated, yes.

Attorney Altman stated, okay. Just wanted to get down; tie it down a little bit. Thank you.

Greg Jacobs stated, okay. One of the, you’ll see along the West line there. Two lines there that represent the road. The intent, we are not exactly sure but we’re about I would say seventy five percent sure that in some form or fashion the White County section will be gated. Especially this development here at least off of the County Road portion will restrict that to residence. We think that we will probably gate the access off of the Richey Park side. We, what we are looking to do is connect the Richey Park Road. Back in ’03 what we had was basically, we had agreed to put a forty foot right-of-way at the board’s request that would extend to the North line of our subject property here. And that would feed those four, four houses. The intent now with the acquisition of this other land is just to go ahead and connect it to Richey Park Road. The…

Attorney Altman stated, Richey Park Road is which road?

Greg Jacobs stated, it’s the, it’s on the North end of the future Phase One.

Attorney Altman stated, okay so it is the East to West road that connects the county Road…

Greg Jacobs stated, Oakdale Road…

Attorney Altman stated, yeah Oakdale Road or county road 1250 W to a T road that goes into a subdivision.

Greg Jacobs stated, right, Richey Park Subdivision.

Attorney Altman stated, it isn’t marked on this one and I just wanted to be sure.

Greg Jacobs stated, right. The, the even though and one of the other things we had talked about three years back was we’re proposing, even though White County will accept eighteen foot roads, although we would like to do an eighteen foot road in the White County section. For mainly one reason, and we feel that it does when it is appropriately wide enough but to it’s definitely slows the traffic down. It will only be servicing the White County section. Well, I can’t say that per say because if we don’t it could fuel some traffic into the Carroll County side as well. But if the board would accept eighteen-foot we would like to do that. The main road has been approved by Carroll County. Three years back we went to Carroll County and we got primary approval for what is designated as Phase one and Phase Two. Phase Three has not gone before them. The difference with what we’re proposing with Phase One, we are going to go back to Carroll County and we have twenty-seven lots that are shown here in the Carroll County side. And twenty of those are for single family or town homes and then we are going to approach them in doing some, a completely different style, more like a town home, three story units on this, this area here on the South side and then across here. And that will be the multi-family part of the Carroll County side. The, so I felt that we should probably look at it over all. I, the initial information that I gave you in the mailing, I tried to just show the Carroll County side as it pertained to the common areas. And I tried to address the common area and the off street visitor parking. That we feel is really important to any type of Lake Development. Now in the subject property basically what we have tried to do, we have developed, basically there are four buildings here. And with the exception of a couple of areas every thing meets the setbacks. To talk about the variances I would like for you to consider in a minute. But the front sets back behind the thirty-foot setback and with the exception of this little corner right here. We are hoping that we can extend about six feet. The setbacks, if you look at page three on the supplement, right behind your phasing plan. You’ll see it kind of jogs and then it jogs again back Southwest and then it goes Northwest on the, I’ve kind of highlighted it for you. It’s the highlighted page; those are the variances that I would like for you to consider. The triangular one at the top of the page, that’s, that’s where I was telling you it kind of jogs back and then goes back out. And that’s, this little corner right here is what we are hoping to be able to set six feet inside the setback. So it still gives us about thirty five feet from the water. The other section is back here on this very back corner; you’ll notice to your left on your page there, the very small triangle there. That is, I think it’s noted as D. That probably won’t be an issue if we’re allowed to approach upon the County line. What we’re, we’ve kind of got a small design change and what we’re hoping to do is be able to take both of the units closer to the, within one foot. If I take the clubhouse within one foot of the county line. Now, if you notice there is nothing into this common space, so we’re not approaching, we are approaching onto our own subdivision. Realizing the importance of keeping this, everything at least all the building in the county and not crossing the county line. But, so the reason that we wanted to approach upon that is to push this building that way. If we do that then we really won’t have that one will be a non-issue. Of the D. Cause what we are planning to do is push these two buildings South twelve to fourteen feet. These would stay where they are at. The, if you would notice, on the highlighted, you’ll see a blue line that, so that whole pink line represents the area we would like to have a variance for. However, the section between the clubhouse and the front building there, that’s all low level, subterranean. It’s basically, a walk out garage, if you will. And that area is strictly common patio space. We are using the top of the roof, it’s a concrete roof over the garage that is basically common area, patio area for the clubhouse. So there really isn’t any building there, it’s just green space yard. It would look no different whether the backside of the garage was at the setback or not. So that is what I’m trying to illustrate there. If you look at the whole Carroll County, White County Plan Development portion of this; You’re, we’re talking a little over, not quite fifteen, sixteen, fifteen point three, seven four acres. Is what we’re talking about? If we’re successful and sell one hundred percent out, we would be looking at a land, an average land space of about fifty four hundred and eighty one square feet per dwelling. The, we may even have some more green space and the first, the information you got with your packet in the mail, I tried to just kind of do a break down of what the zoning requirements are and tried to compare them to single family zoning and multi-family zoning. R-2 and R-3 and I just tried to do a test to see if they qualified under that zoning and based on the numbers we did, without taking into consideration the, the common area. That we are using in the Carroll County side, the White County portion met the test as it pertains to R-2 and R-3 as far as, percentage of building coverage, land, excess as the percentage of land that would be required. In fact, we had excess land of thirty four thousand four hundred square feet. Now that doesn’t include any of the future Phase One that just got added for tonight. It improves when you put that on there. If you look at just the White County section standing on its own without the future Phase One. Our average land, total land per dwelling unit is about thirty three fifty nine. So the, the common areas that we are trying to provide for this community is you know, we feel is extremely important for the success of it but also for the quality of life that, I think, the people are going to want to have that will buy. We’ve, the plan is to have these top decks are basically green space. They are green roofs. Although run off is not a problem, they’re designed to, they are serviced, all buildings are serviced by elevators and it’s they’re designed basically to provide somewhere around fourteen thousand square feet between the two of green space, yard space. The both facilities haven’t been approved yet but we have approval to do some here and the elevations and everything meet the requirements. As required by SFLECC, they, we’ve had preliminary discussions way back when about it. There’s really no concerns. The only concerns they had was were we going to put docks in that we were just going to rent out to people. And the tent is only for homeowners, condo owners. Drainage, both drainage and county roads have been reviewed by Wayne Chapman, the County Surveyor. And where it pertains to drainage, we have improved almost three fold, the drainage the way we have developed the land with the ponds in the middle of the Carroll County section, verses the run off that they experienced before that went down Lower Hambridge Road. It’s just about three fold improvement over that. There is just a very small acreage that still runs that direction so we’ve and without the requirement of it. We have vastly improved that. One thing that the County Engineer had looked at back three years ago and we obtained a waiver that we didn’t have to provide any detention storage for ours but we’ve taken that a step further and you’ll see two ponds behind the in the White County section. One is substantially in the future Phase One and one directly behind these condos. So even the run off that comes from them, there will be storm drainage in between the buildings and it will go back to Pond C. So, we’re not directly dumping any water in from the building run offs to the parking lots is being dumped directly to Lake Freeman. It’s going into Pond C, detention storage. The design of the drainage for the entire development, Pond A goes to Pond B in Carroll County, Pond B’s over flow goes to Pond C and then Pond C goes into Lake Freeman.

Dennis Sterrett stated, Where’s Pond C?

Greg Jacobs stated, Pond C would be directly behind the condo building B-1. It’s the furthest South in White County. The little, the small round one.

Attorney Altman stated, you have given us basically an over view of the project.

Greg Jacobs stated, yes, I think that, oh the only other thing on the highway. White County or Carroll County spend some more money for it. They did approve their highway plans on Monday, and although could have been argued we didn’t have an opinion. I think what they did was probably good. They went from a six, three and one, six stone, three binder, one surface to eight, three eighty, and one and a half. We don’t really have an opinion cause we were about ninety percent sure we’re going to go with concrete road six inches stone, six inches concrete. Just feel like it, even though it’s more money that it will enhance the value of the subdivision and will hold down the roads. They’ve reviewed it; it’s a twenty-foot road, fifty-foot right-of-way. We are providing, although we are not putting curb on we are installing drainage instead of having your typical drainage ditch with culverts under each driveway, we are installing drainage tile that will be maintained and accepted by the homeowners association. And so each lot, at each lot line there will be a catch basin and we have that tile that’s draining and we did that because we wanted to provide one as a aesthetically improved product. So we’ll have a ten-foot bumper strip of grass that goes from the edge of the pavement to the edge of the sidewalk. And that will just to provide us a space there they can, one, they can pull off the road and park in front of that yard. So it’s parking, but in addition, we’ve tried to go a step further and we have, in this initial phase, we have forty off street paved parking where they head in off of the street.

Attorney Altman stated, where is that? I’m sorry I couldn’t see that on here.

Greg Jacobs stated, the parking?

Attorney Altman stated, yes.

Greg Jacobs stated, It would be in the first set of drawings that you got in the mailing. It’d be, it should be, you should have a packet. If you look on one, two, three, okay look on your forth page back, I think I’ve got a better view you can see the A-100, B and 100-B. It’s basically a blown up version of the White County section. But if you look directly from the covered parking garages, you’ll see ten off street. And you look around the curb there you’ll see seven, you’ll see sets of five positioned. We have six there, six there and then there is a couple on over there so. Those are paved parking spaces for, that are conveniently located to the condo residence but not forcing them to come down into the development to park or look for parking. And we intend on taking that out, we haven’t fully planned out those other phases so the plan is to just have those strategically placed throughout the development to minimize the need for any off street grass parking, if you will. But Ramsey, I was going to finish with this, Ramsey I think it’s pronounced Arod, he’s the County Engineer and we’ve set down, we’ve gone over these he doesn’t have any, he doesn’t have any problems with it. He’s, we’ve agreed that whenever work starts in, and we anticipate that starting in May on the road, the only concern that he’s got is that he’s there to proof roll, proof roll the road once the gravel is compacted before anything happens. And in addition to that we have hired patriot engineering, out of Lafayette, to do compaction testing and bores prior to construction to and we’ll do that on the White County side as well.

Charles Mellon stated, what about the sewer system in this proposition?

Greg Jacobs stated, sewer system, currently we have about seventy percent of the site sewer’d. White County side, none. We have sewer, our drawing showing, sewer manhole twenty-three. And it is about ten feet, I don’t really, yeah look at the drawing that you got today. I’ve divided a copy of the construction drawings for that. For the Carroll County Roads, if you look on the first page of that, which I think is about five to six pages back, in the construction plans you’ll notice that on the very top of your page there at lot forty at lot fifty, you’ll see SMH23. That’s as far North as we’ve got our lines, now that is at an elevation that we can’t drain our condos into. Our condos are all below that. You can get an idea and the reason for this design was to maintain, to maintain the view from all of the land back here. So what we’ve done is water six eleven flood plain six seventeen our first floor is going to be is showing to be six twenty one but we are going to shorten it just, at this point we have proposed ten foot ceilings. We are going to take that down to nine feet. We’ll gain a foot lower or three feet lower. So we’ll be at about six twenty two, five feet above flood plain with our lower unit. And then these units here, right now it is proposed to be six fifty seven or about four-foot below. We’ll take that down to six fifty four. So we’ll be excavating about six feet, seven feet of soil there, from what this is existing in and this is almost a walk out here. So the existing ground will be very close to the, the bottom of the second floor. Code, there was only one fire, the buildings will be sprinkled by code. I met with the Chief Logan and one of the concerns that was raised by Steven Fisher three years ago was dry hydrant. And we’ve agreed and actually have got the rough, the pipe laid over at the boat ramp at the far West side, we have a two lane concrete boat ramp that any fire truck could back up to. Don’t feel that’s going to be an issue here. We’re, because our height requires us to have standpipes for sprinklers. We’ll have some where around an eight to twelve thousand gallon fresh water tank that will actually have a pump, a pressurization pump that will furnish more than ample water to the sprinkler system. More than that is required by code. And it will be fresh water and then one of the, although, the state doesn’t require it but the local has jurisdiction can request more. So what Chief Logan asked me to do was to provide what is really the equivalent of a dry hydrant. What we’ll do is we’ll pipe down to in between the buildings here and we’ll have a standpipe. Either a two-inch or three or four inch standpipe. And basically it will in at the parking lot area here between these two buildings there will be where they can pull their fire truck up, hook their pump on to it, and they’ll actually be able to supply what ever pressure that is. I think they need one hundred and fifty-PSI or something like that. So then fireman can actually work more efficient down here instead of having to worry about dragging their hoses out and down thirty-foot retaining wall and what not. So he’s reviewed it and that was the only, that was the only thing that he asked me if we would include in our plans. And of course we’ve agreed. Is there any question cause I think that’s…

Robert Thomas stated, how do you plan on getting that one fifty pounds of pressure at the four inch pipe?

Greg Jacobs stated, the pump.

Robert Thomas stated, it will have a pump.

Greg Jacobs stated, and it is my understanding that’s what they do anyway at hydrants that are furnished by the city. Cause the city only provides somewhere in the fifty pounds, sixty pound. So they’re really not using, I didn’t know this but they’re not using the cities pressure they are just tapping on, re-pressurizing it through their pumps on the trucks. So it would be very much the same, we just don’t have a water system that’s designed to put out the amount of volume that they need if they we run out of it. But I guess I should address the water system. We do have a public water system at the, at the far ten acres. We have a mobile home park that is regulated by IDEM. It is got a PWS ID number. Although we could meet any code requirements with individual wells, we are in the design process of the extension of that water main and to get IDEM approval to feed the, the whole development with basically the equivalent of a, almost like a municipal water system. And that’s why I mentioned the tank could be anywhere from eight to twelve thousand. We’ll over size that and it will be a fresh water tank that will serve dual purposes. One for the main focus was for the sprinkler system but then its added benefit for an high use it or a well goes down or some thing, it will have storage that will furnish the community with fresh water supply. Lastly, DNR, we did have, cause one of the opposition. One of the objections in Carroll County when we got primary approval was that we were going to dry up everybody’s well. And so we went to, we had DNR come out and Mark Baker or Davis, I can’t remember his name now but he came out and he did a drawn out test. And he went to two neighboring wells and we pumped water and did whatever they do when they did a drawn out test. And his opinion was that what we are proposing to do is the best scenario as opposed to multiple wells. And that, there is no way that we would ever. We’re near a lake and the aqua is so great that there is no way that we’ll ever affect anything so he was very pro a single, actually it would be a dual system, a dual well system, one for a back up. But thank you.

Jay Clawson stated, have you negotiated with White County or Carroll County either one with your investment in this and the expanded traffic to try to get a better road in front that services you from say like Hick’s corner to you and from Carroll County, Oakdale Road to your property? Have you discussed that with them in any way?

Greg Jacobs stated, no. What we did discuss is they were very much in favor of us keeping it private. And so I come back with, what’s in it for us, I mean if we turn this over to an HOA and do that. You know, what’s the trade off? And I threw that back out at them. And obviously the pier road I would say probably fifty-fifty. That although Carroll County traffic came in from the South, it would be like me, I go to Springboro, hit Chalmers road and come back around and back track because of the road back from the South, the White County’s roads are in better shape up there. But, no, from the White County side I don’t think that there is a problem with the roads. And one of the things that I’ve done over the past couple of years is I’ve gone to probably three different seminars on land planning and land development. And one of the things that I found and other areas and there seems to be a lot of land, very, very successful national level land planners that come out of the Colorado area. And the although it’s and added expense we’ve tried to take some of those approaches to this and in terms of the amenities that we are offering in the road. But one thing they are really staunch advocates of is narrower roads are safer. It forces people to slow down. And that wide roads invite them to speed up. And they although I couldn’t afford to have one of those land planners probably do this little development. They, I gained a lot of insight into their way of thinking and looked at several plans that actually some paved fourteen foot roads. They wouldn’t be a bit afraid on the White County side with a sixteen-foot road. So we didn’t have any concerns as far as the widths of the roads, I asked that question of Ramsey on the Carroll County side. He has no concerns. One of the things that was raised in the primary approval on the Carroll County side was all the nea-sayers was really concerned that our, we were going to have all these driveways backing up on to the seven seventy five there. And as you see we’ve got about five or six lots that are on the West side that are going into Phase Two are, I believe it is, and they front twelve fifty as it is in Carroll County. Cause Oakdale is on the White County side, Oakdale Road. But we’re actually, looking at, even though it’s an added expense, landscape running along here, landscape running along here. We’re playing with a one or two lane road that would come in on, between five and six loop around in to there, get rid of that, that’s not a good lot. So we’re actually looking at doing that, rear loading these and really going back only to them. But we have, we don’t even want this in and out. We want one ingress, egress into the development. Other than the White County side.

Jay Clawson stated, right. I understand in your thing but I didn’t know if there was anything that you say and the roads coming to it that you would want the county to do at some future time to handle the increase traffic coming to your development.

Greg Jacobs stated, you know, I would love to think that there would be some sort of partnership. One thing I learned from Ramsey was that the counties are grossly under funded ands he used a number of like twenty nine hundred dollars per mile that the government, the gas tax provides for road upkeep. And you know, one of the things he was commenting on was you know, new road, he said I’m just telling you right now, we’re not gonna have the money when it’s time to come and fix your road. So why don’t you at least you know, if it’s gonna be a public road why don’t you try to for see that in your HOA and allocate whatever. A couple bucks a month per, that way you’ve got some funds to keep it up. That makes a really good idea. When I asked him was could we have that twenty nine hundred dollars a year? We got a mile of road; can we have that to make sure that that money goes to our roads? If we’re going to bring that on line and you’re going to get that additional funding lets escrow that money and let us have it when it needs to happen. And you know, he had some good points, he said well he says it’s a little bit more than that he says we’ve got Carroll County feeder roads that come in and you know, if you didn’t have those feeder roads they wouldn’t be able to get to you so. I understand that and but still a good idea. But I don’t know what the options are but I certainly would welcome any opportunity to be able to make improvements to you know the feeder roads that come into the development. You notice on the drawing we’ve gone back, we’ve actually included landscape islands. Right now, they are planning to be about eight-foot wide by fifty feet long. And we’ve put them right now in about four strategic places. The entrance of Carroll County and then we’ll have it back where it goes into White County and then where it comes on around. We did those mainly to for aesthetics. We wanted to increase the green space and make it more attractive but too they and Ramsey was really on board for those because as he said they slow traffic down. So that was one of the things that we’ve added.

Dave Scott stated, you have a final profile here of street and some of them have got like five foot fills.

Greg Jacobs stated, those they are going out tomorrow to shoot. That was when we originally bought this property. County line, when we put the retention ponds in a year ago November. County line basically leveled our, leveled our site and right now we probably don’t have six inches of cut.

Dave Scott stated, I noticed you have you have it looks like a foot and a half on this. But if you have like five feet of fill you’re gonna be outside your right-of-way lines with slopes and stuff, unless you fill the whole area.

Greg Jacobs stated, It isn’t what it seems there. C & S like I said, just in the field throughout tomorrow to re-shoot because those cuts aren’t correct. The existing terrain has changed as of last, a year ago.

Dave Scott stated, you realize what could happen, you could be outside the right-of-ways. Both cut and fill.

Greg Jacobs stated, right. And that’s why they are going back out because you know, he’s thinking I’m just gonna take this, you know, they’re gonna go out and stake the street and I’m just gonna have my concrete contractor come in and build it. And I know you’re gonna set, we’re gonna set the grades of the street. And the drainage tile and the pad, the pad elevations so you know, we’re using the dirt on site and nobody is going out, it’s going to be engineered before anybody gets to the site. And you know, that’s one thing he may not have understood, but I’m not going to go out there and try to engineer something on, even though it would probably be acceptable it’s not going to happen. And that’s what Paul is working on this week to, before we submit final plans to Ramsey. Now one thing I will say that is going to change because we are taking that thirty thousand thirty five thousand cubic yards of fill that we’re moving and we’re moving it directly West. South of the Clubhouse in the area of West of Upper Hambridge Road and the Phase One Pond B. And we’re raising that area up as much as five feet. So we’ll be taking that in six eight inch lifts, compacting it, soil engineer will be on site. Passing each lift. And we’re raising that mainly for one reason and that’s to improve the views of that area. And it’s a very efficient way of getting rid of that soil. But now that road we will have about a three percent slope where that road starts to come around at the clubhouse. It will slope from about a six, sixty elevation up to about a six sixty five there at about a hundred and fifty feet. Other than that it’s fairly flat drive throughout.

Dave Scott stated, well, you know, that’s something that has to be watched too. That you don’t, that you stay inside your right-of-way. Or you adjust everything around it so you stay inside your right-of-way. You see what I mean?

Greg Jacobs stated, and what you’re talking too is about is what the…

Dave Scott stated, where you have a deep fill your slopes and stuff are way outside your right-of-way line because you’re showing your street fifty feet wide and side walks and everything else. But you’ve got a fifty-foot right-of-way. You’ve got to have room for those slopes and if you have a three to one slope on a five foot cut you’re fifteen feet out into the lot…

Greg Jacobs stated, right. And that won’t happen. I think in the lot detail will very, very similar to what it’s going, what the actual is so those cuts aren’t even close and then there, like I say , they will be confirming that and doing, and I will submit those to you prior to you know, road construction. Just to show you what we’re, what we are doing but I assure you they will be correct. Because they will ruin our lot if not, just what you’re saying and then we’ll have a…

Dave Scott stated, if you’re having any trouble with these you’ll have them out on the lot land and not inside the road where they are suppose to be.

Greg Jacobs stated, and now we are gonna have additional right-of-way for utilities outside that fifty feet. We’re planning on putting at each lot line the foot print for the Nipsco transformer the catch basin, the whatever you call them, the boxes for the cable, phone, and the street light. And then each lot will be planned. I mean, there will be, before the house even goes up the dry well will be designated whether it’s a right load or a left load and the street light with two common mail boxes will be and it will be all uniform throughout.

Attorney Altman stated, you want to make a proposal. You have given us a lot of information but we need a lot more too. Can you, we would like to have the Carroll County’s drainage board approval on the project so that we can tie that in to what we may need in White County. The Carroll County Preliminary approval for Phase One and Phase Two that you have talked about, we don’t have that. And we need that sort of information to look at to make sure that everything ties together with White County’s side. And we also obviously need your Phase One that you are modifying Wednesday, that we don’t have yet. So that we can do that, I’d also like to learn something and I, if you could furnish something to us that, talking about the narrow roads make safer roads, I would really appreciate that and I think everybody on the board would like to see that. We also would like to see, I think, everybody would like to see more about the setups for the fresh water tanks for sprinklers a dry hydrant and that sort of thing. The specs on that, just to give us a better idea on where that is so that we have an idea what we’re maybe approving, improving, approving, I’m sorry. And probably, water system that you’re talking about. I think we would like to have the specs on that.

Greg Jacobs stated, prior to the vote?

Attorney Altman stated, yeah and the sewer system as you are talking about. We would, it would be very helpful to have that as well as this draw down test that you are talking about. That test would be something that I think the board would like to see.

Greg Jacobs stated, excuse me, with all do respect Jerry, if I may. I would be more than happy to supply and if the board chooses that I do that before a vote; I think that that’s the reason for the Secondary approval is to make sure that absolutely all the I’s are dotted and the T’s are crossed. So prior to the approval of the smaller request in ’03 the same situation, the situation hasn’t changed, the only thing that’s changed is the product and the size has increased. And so the I think isn’t the request basically, if my request is, the land is suitable for what I ‘m requesting and that these different requirements be met prior to a secondary?

Attorney Altman stated, no it’s before the primary. I mean, we need to see, to have a statement and just reading from it, a statement of the developments objectives and purposes to be served economic phase ability, the conformity of the plans and policies of the city, market needs, public streets, public schools, etc. And I’m just reading from forty-six. At all ahead of time for preliminary phase and that must be submitted actually before it’s comes to the board and I don’t see that among this and quite frankly I don’t see how we could even a vote tonight when it’s being amended by your Phase One future. We just don’t have it here.

Greg Jacobs stated, first of all, per five point two zero zero six on page four of the initial first mailing, I tried, I went down through the book, the Area Plan book and I addressed every single requirement that is listed there. And basically, five point two zero zero six is preliminary phase material to be submitted. A, a P.U.D. site plan that meets the requirements of 5.10. And then I go down through that. And so I addressed every one of those points to the very end and basically, I asked and I thought that was part of the review process. Was, and but I got a phone call about three thirty three O’clock this afternoon asking me about a couple things and I would have been more than happy to oblige. On the, pertaining to drainage and highway but the way I read the zoning book, I believe that I‘ve substantially addressed all the requirements that would be needed for a preliminary vote.

Attorney Altman stated, well that’s up to the board to decide but I would submit that we don’t have those things. We don’t have the results of any of these things I’ve asked for that is we’ve heard you testify about them but we don’t have the actual reports that actual approval and the specific results of them.

Greg Jacobs stated, those are secondary requirements. You don’t have to have a road approved or those are secondary that’s what the purpose of this is for, you get primary approval. I mean, I substantially completed the do diligence almost in every phase of this. I am just unprepared to because the book doesn’t require that and I was not requested the APC office review to provide those for this meeting but I believe if we read two point, five point two zero zero six. I believe that it could be argued that I have met all of the requirements for preliminary.

Attorney Altman stated, that’s up to the board to decide. I just don’t think that it has been. I don’t think that there is anything specific here for the board to vote on.

Greg Jacobs stated, and again, with all due respect, this is far more information than we gave in 2003 and none of these issues were requested or arose then.

Attorney Altman stated, this is a significantly different more dense concentration of everything, people and everything then those three. And these matters change with density and requirements change with density. And I just, I just can’t over emphasize that the board needs that ahead of time rather than afterwards. You can’t close the door with the horses out. D very clearly says that additional graphics and written materials requested by the Area Plan Commission to assist the commission and visualizing and understand the proposal shall be permitted, shall be submitted.

Greg Jacobs stated, I would hope that I’ve gone above and beyond trying to submit everything that I possibly could. And would have submitted specific information had it been reviewed and I’d been requested to do so. But again, I would hope for consistency and I realize what you’re saying but this really goes to the secondary. I can’t build this if I don’t have sewer to dump it in. I have sewer to dump it in. I can’t build it, I can build it without that IDEM permit water, wells are approved I can go out there and put 100 different wells down. There is nothing saying I can’t so what I’m trying to do is take it a step beyond. The fire protection, that’s a code that has to be met reviewed by state fire marshal and that is a design thing that has to be done when the drawings are completed. And it won’t get approved, a permit would not get approved without approval at the state level as well as our local fire chief. I’m serviced by utilities, there’s no question, I have access to utilities. Nipsco is right there on my sight. I have gas, I have phone, I have cable, I have sewer. There is little question that the Snow Ditch is sewer’d, and that I have sewer. What else? Roads, the board asked for fifty feet of right-of-way in ’03. And lew of forty foot in Carroll County and I’ve provided that. On the Richey Park Road side was requested an additional ten feet of right-of-way when we did that little six-lot subdivision. We gave ten foot additional there in case anything needed to be done for, on Richey Park. But I would say that if we go down page four and five and match it up with, with what the book requires I ‘d substantially addressed all of the requirements for the preliminary.

Attorney Altman stated, I guess that I’d just note that addressing it isn’t answering it. That is up to the board to decide.

Dennis Sterrett stated, what’s going to be in Phase One Future?

Greg Jacobs stated, single family houses. And I’m not asking for, I just thought that I would share that with you. As I said at the beginning, I just thought that it was prudent because there are additional property owners that are affected so there is nobody that hasn’t been notified that isn’t here to hear it. And I’m not asking you to approve that I know that I’ve got to come back. I’ve got to do a second filing before Thursday and I’ve got to come back for a meeting to show you that. So I’m not asking you to approve that. It’ll be a short winded presentation before but I just thought that I would share with you that that’s you know, that’s a part of it.

Gary Barbour stated, Well I guess I’ll tell you where I’m at as a board member here. I think what you’ve done here looks good. I mean, this is way better, in my opinion than what you’ve presented in the past. However, looking through all of this literature and then going through what we are hearing tonight and learning tonight. You are asking me to make a decision and I got a lot more I want to compress in my head and I guess that I would like to see this go on to the next meeting before we make a vote on this. And hope by the way in the mean time that you can get the information that Jerry’s asking for. Anything that you can add to help us with and I’m not saying compile it with the big presentation like we did tonight. But something quick that we can get through and answer at the next meeting. I guess that is what I would like to see.

Greg Jacobs stated, can we be specific as to…

Attorney Altman stated, I just gave you the list.

Gary Barbour stated, I’m not saying narrow it down to every detail but…

Attorney Altman stated, these things he said he had already and he hasn’t presented them to us. The results of these, of the primary approval in Carroll County Phase One and Phase Two’s done. The drainage, Carroll County drainage plan, he says done. Carroll County Highway project approval, he says done. I’m not asking to go get stuff new or spend money, copy it and send it to us…

Greg Jacobs stated, can I read something?

Attorney Altman stated, and these other things as I understood when he just testified…

Tape stopped recording and began again as follows:

Attorney Altman stated, now maybe I have missed just listening and a little too lib but I understood these things that he was telling us that he had approved and done. Now I just wanted to see that presented in black and white to us. I’m not asking him to go spend more money. I understood these things he said were done and I think the board would benefit greatly by seeing it in black and white.

Robert Thomas stated, as a water superintendent I feel that you were saying that you had a four-inch line that was going to supply enough water for a dry well fire hydrant. And with the distribution license that I have in my town, I would be scared with a four-inch water line. So I would like to see what you can pump through that four inch water line before I would make a decision that you know you got a lot of lives at stake there. And if you can’t provide, even if that fire chief says yeah that the, he’s gonna use his pump to build the pressure but is he gonna, is your well gonna be able to keep up with his pressure, with a four inch line. We try to put in anywhere from six to eight to ten inch lines in our town. And I realize that that’s not a town but I don’t know how many residence you are gonna have there but that, that’s a lot of people. And that’s the kind of things that I would like to see. The draw down, the how many gallons per minute your well puts out, and how long it will put it out, and stuff like that.

Greg Jacobs stated, and I can go through those. And I assure you that when I said two, three, four inch, I was just, all of these things have to go through an engineering, a very expensive engineering and what you’re asking for is stuff that has to be submitted to the state and approved by the state. And your own ordinance reads and I’m gonna go to 5.2009. Final Planned Unit Development plan approval and he continues to read out of the ordinance book. (See ordinance section 5.2009) Those are all of the things that Jerry is asking for and any other information that you may need and whatever are in the final Planned Unit Development Approval though this meeting is simply a go ahead. Okay yes based on this, this, and this, if we can meet those that we like the plan. And so I just was going by the book and I guess by experience from the last meeting and feel that I’ve substantially done that. But I can’t, I can’t force and I’m not trying to do that I just want to share that we have substantially submitted well and beyond, everything thing that the book requires. And that is what I based it on. Well, if what the final says, Jerry,

The final your 5.2009. I can’t do anything with your approval tonight. There is not a thing I can do except know that we’ve addressed, that we know how to go further and spend more money in engineering. Engineering that size of that tank and the lot and have and engineer, a stamped engineer. That might cost me five thousand dollars. But it’s not required on a preliminary site plan approval. The book asks that it be submitted before the final approval. And I can’t build the first house without your final approval. I can go on the south end where it’s a lot already and build a house and get a permit for one. But, and I could get one permit for a house on the one, you know, but that’s not what we’re doing so. I have the burden of coming back here with each and every point satisfied before I can get you r final approval. This means nothing. All this means is that hey, you want this information and now I can go back and feel good about spending maybe another ten thousand dollars in engineering to answer everybody’s concerns. And because I know that you know, it’s that I can feel rest assured that if I meet all of those concerns that I can, I can go ahead with the project. But I mean, even the substantial architectural renderings and not renderings, but the drawings you see there. Those are schematic design completed. For this reason, even though we could have even showed that on the you know, the outline on there. I wanted to take that a step further and, and my goodness there’s and I realize there’s no guarantees I, that if this isn’t a good plan that you could turn that down with substantial investment to try to make sure that you know, that every thing works. And to give you the best information you could for a preliminary approval. So I would just hope and for the sake of not loosing a month that you would you know maybe look closer at two zero zero nine there. And the fact that it does require it and the burden is on me to address each and every issue that you guys, you gentleman have before I can get the first building permit. And if I don’t do that this is for not anyway. So I’m required to do so.

Attorney Altman stated, was that a motion?

Don Ward stated, it seems to me that the reason that this is done in Phases or steps is so that he only has to spend a certain amount of money to go so far until the next step. I mean, I’d hate to see him spend thousands of dollars on engineering or anything if he’s gonna get shot out of the water. I mean I think he’s taking steps. But I’m not…

Jay Clawson stated, I like the way you’re talking. Because like you say you have the preliminary thing. He’s showing us what his new really the new buildings but what he’s is planning on doing. And do we like the unit or not and we can have this whole list that does definitely have to be addressed before it can more any farther. Because if all this those things that Jerry laid out aren’t there because if we make him go all the way through and then all of a sudden he specs out the holding tanks and the lines and all this stuff. And then all of a sudden we say well we really don’t want you to do it anyway. Well he spent another forty thousand dollars in…

Attorney Altman stated, I’ll withdraw it as far as the well I understand from the testimony, where more I’m hearing him even say the rest of those are done they are just not presented to us.

Gary Barbour stated, that is probably the most important though that Carroll County has approved it. Because our part depends on their approval. With their part. The rest of it’s technical and that’s designed by somebody else later on and approved by the state and local officials and not really our concern. I don’t think. The water line and stuff like that is beyond us.

Attorney Altman stated, like I say, I with draw that as far as. I understood that he maybe I was not clear on what he testified I thought he had done that. And that with fire Chief Logan he had satisfied him with his specs. That’s what I understood. If that’s not so then he’s going to have to spend ten thousand dollars, I’m not asking for that. But I thought he had satisfied that and was going to do that but that so that…

Robert Thomas stated, but that is what I was understanding is that, that had already been done. The draw down and the gallons per minute from your well and the…

Greg Jacobs stated, I’m sorry what…

Don Ward stated, White County or Carroll County?

Greg Jacobs stated, the draw down and the gallons per minute from your well and the…

Greg Jacobs stated, I’m sorry what…

Don Ward stated, White County or Carroll County?

Greg Jacobs stated, it’s in Carroll County. No, but the well isn’t required. What I was referring to there is we feel that the, the development as a better development with a water main instead of multiple wells throughout.

Robert Thomas stated, I will agree with that.

Greg Jacobs stated, okay, nothing to do with the fire suppression system. So we’re preparing, the engineer drawings to have IDEM approve a water system for fresh water. In slew of a hundred wells. And if part of that because of one of the concerns of, addressed to Carroll County was wow, we’re gonna dry up these wells. Well, obviously I was concerned about liability. Do I have some exposure. So that’s when I called DNR and they came out and did a draw down test to see what the, to check the aqua foam. We don’t have to do that in order to get approval to do this. We the code says that we can put wells in. We just don’t want to do that. So we’re going an extra step. The fire suppression system. The reason that it has to be a six or an eight thousand-gallon tank is simply because of the standpipe. If we were twenty nine foot eleven and three quarter inches on the height of our building, we could get by with just having those small poly tanks with a pump in, that farmers use and it would supply sufficient amount of water to meet the state code for fire suppression system. But since we’re above that thirty-foot mark, we have to have standpipes in the emergency hallways and what not. It’s just additional capacity and a standpipe to where the fire department can hook onto them. So that is where that tank comes in and has to be engineered to a proper size. And then also that line that Chief Logan was asking about, that would be engineered to meet whatever size he wanted you, know, cause a six-inch or an eight-inch. It probably won’t be that big but so we just wanted to, we had that preliminary discussion with him, Because we knew the importance from experience. Steven Fisher laid on the fire department brought these up so. About the dry hydrant so, I knew that it was important to address that with Chief Logan and what we got from him was just a verbal okay. He was going to email us something and I think he did. But we haven’t it engineered and we will. And again it will have to meet the state fire marshal’s specs. Then it has to meet Chief Logan’s requirements so we will engineer that.

Charles Mellon stated, you have that well dug now?

Greg Jacobs stated, well we have two wells and those wells are over in the, we have a maintenance building where the water system is at the Carroll County side.

Charles Mellon stated, how big is it?

Greg Jacobs stated, it’s a six-inch. And even without the tank, the engineers feel that we can supply that it will supply water through a variable speed pump. But again, because we have to supply whatever six, seven thousand, eight thousand gallons for the suppression system. It only makes sense for us to up size that to a twelve. It only costs a little bit more and then we’ve got a fresh water storage facility there that under any demand we have plenty of water to not only excess water to meet fire protection but we also have excess water to be for public use.

Charles Mellon stated, well we’ve got four twelve-inch wells. On an irrigation systems and the government regulates them. We had to put a gage on it and they checked down and you’d be surprised that they’re never hardly sucked down in it. Depends on and I think your water supply, but I’d rather have a bigger well than a sieve, really.

Attorney Altman stated, the key is…

Charles Mellon stated, that they regulate that…

Dave Scott stated, that somebody will decide that.

Greg Jacobs stated, yeah, right, and I know that the… and the key though is that well will pump. We can put a three-inch pump in that well. And so you put a variable speed pump on there, that well will pump only to the capacity of the casing. So that’s where if there is a five thousand or a six thousand access capacity like a water tower, only difference is we’re below ground and we have a re-pressurization pump to maintain that fifty sixty PSI. Only difference and we have excess capacity there so we don’t have to worry about that six inch well keeping up it’s engineered to meet the demand of the anticipated growth of the development. That’s the only reason a six-inch quote can do it.

Charles Mellon stated, we got eight-inch pumps in those twelve-inch wells. And they pump, they’ll pump twelve hundred and fifty gallon a minute. We only pump about six hundred and it don’t even drain the wells down.

Dennis Sterrett stated, there is substantial change here from what the drainage board had approved in 2003, I think it was. So I think that this needs to be reviewed again by the Drainage Board.

Greg Jacobs stated, the Drainage Board, sure.

Dennis Sterrett stated, you’re cutting down a sixty-foot hill to what fifteen feet?

Greg Jacobs stated, and I will immediately, I will have C& S prepare it. I think what you’re going to find though is before we had the equivalent of about four and a half acres completely shedding into the lake. Now what you’re gonna have is those green roofs. Those front buildings actually we’ve, we’ve probably, we’ll find that we have drainage and improved it no less than three but probably four fold. By the fact that we’ve got retention Pond C in the middle between our buildings and the whole paved area, everything drains to the middle of that parking lot. We bump grade and we go due west between the clubhouse and B-1 and we dump into detention storage C. And so we have actually improved considerably because before all we had was water sheeting off into over the hill into the ravine. So but I will be happy to have them, he has already done calcs on the, the other side to make sure that the water shed from the fifteen acre field you know, is okay. But I’ll prepare a drainage plan and so we can submit that to the Drainage Board, Denny.

Jay Clawson stated, that has to be done before secondary approval, right?

Dennis Sterrett stated, I would ask…

Greg Jacobs stated, yes, yes, because that is a County Agency and he is asking for it so we have to get his approval.

Jay Clawson stated, okay but the main thing if you already have your approval from Carroll County we can, I’m asking Jerry, and we talked it over if we voted with this contingent that we will give him preliminary approval that he must fax or bring Diann proof of the approvals of Carroll County?

Attorney Altman stated, yes. Is their approval as you have presented to us or is it different from what you are presenting to us?

Greg Jacobs stated, we have approval for single family. We have to go back to them for permission for the Planned Unit Development. We have approval only for single family homes and we have entire approval. But it isn't, we have approval for the road and even if we didn’t have the road in place then the board would have to address, and we’re showing that we want to come to Richey Park road. We could very easily, if I’m wrong, and they won’t let me build the road, and I’m not wrong, and it’s part of the County agencies. The final plot planned developments are that I bring approval from all county agencies. Carroll County drainage and Highway Department are part of that final approval. I have to prove to you that we have the road approved as I’ve presented it. If I don’t, I can’t get final; approval from you. I have, I’ll prove that to you before the final approval is submitted.

Attorney Altman stated, I don’t know to be answering your question. But it certainly sounds like it is different than the proposal that’s being presented this evening. And therefore I can’t tell you that you know that if you just proved this that it has been approved by them. It sure sounds like it isn’t approved by them. As it is being presented to us.

Jay Clawson stated, the way he just described that yes he hasn’t gotten approval on the changes yet.

Greg Jacobs stated, the road is approved. The only thing that isn’t approved is that we want to take lots that have been approved for single family, and instead of putting single family on those lots, we have not changed one lot line. The only thing that we’ve changed with Carroll County is we’ve taken two lots out of the plan and we’ve turned them into common area park. That’s lots forty five and forty six. That front the pond there. So we’ve taken those out and said we are not going to put houses on them. We are going to make common area park. But the plan has not been changed one bit. The only thing that we are doing is we’re wanting to go back to them as fully prepared as we are here tonight with here’s the picture, here’s what we want to put on this lot. We know we’ve been approved for a single family but we would like to take these five lots and put in a multi-family townhome designed lot. And we’ll do that and if we don’t do that then all we can do is get secondary approval for a single-family subdivision.

Attorney Altman stated, there is another couple of significant problems I see with the proposal. And that is his basic premises that he can use Carroll County land to contribute to the green space if it is in White County P.U.D. And I don’t know that that we have authority to in fact grant that sort of extra territorial, that isn’t part of our authority to do that. And I just I think there are questions here that go deeper than just I’ve gotten approval, I don’t know what that approval is I don’t know what Phase One or Phase Two has approved, is because I don’t think it’s what we see here tonight. And we’ve talked all evening about whether it is or isn’t approved for bringing the paper work.

Greg Jacobs stated, again respectfully Jerry, if I may, the final P. U. D. approval…

Attorney Altman stated, no, it’s now. It’s now. Now is when we have authority to say no at all to this.

Greg Jacobs stated, again, may I re-read, may I re-read page forty-seven final P.U.D. final plan approval 5.2009. And I’m gonna re-read item B. Copies of the final P.U.D. site plan as submitted shall be distributed promptly by the Area Plan Director to the appropriate county agencies. That would be Carroll County Highway, Carroll County Surveyor and White County Drainage, White County Highway. All of the appropriate agencies, this is not before the preliminary. This is before the final approval. Have to come back before you and answer each and every concern you have. The appropriate county of agencies for review and comment regarding the legal requirements of the county. Without those I can’t do anything. So that no where under preliminary I have gone down through every paragraph, there’s multiple things in every paragraph an don pages four and the top half of five, I’ve addressed each and every requirement that’s asking the book on a preliminary plan approval. And then lastly, I think in addressing the common space for White County. The reason in the initial mailing that I tried to do the test solely based on not the future Phase One White county but simply the four point three nine acres is I did the test based on zoning of multi-family R-3 and a single family R-2. Because those were the closest zonings that we have in the County to compare this development to. So that was my method, my thought for doing that. So on the first page, I take and I just try to go down. I got four point three nine acres. I convert that to square footage and I calculate all of my hardscape. I come up with sixty, just shy of sixty nine thousand square feet of hardscape. The total percentage before I asked for my green roof credit because technically that green roof is not hardscape. I had sixty two percent. It meets the County’s requirement, I believe it’s sixty five percent. Then I make an adjustment asking for a credit for my green roofs on B-2 and B-3 of nearly eleven thousand square feet. So my total adjusted hardscape is fifty eight thousand. So my percentage of condo land used is fifty percent, fifteen percent below the requirement in R-3 and R-2. There is no requirement in Planned Unit Development. So that’s what I was trying to show there and then so you come on down and we have the land size test based on R-2 and R-3 zoning. For R-3you have to have with sewer and water, you have to have a minimum of seven thousand square feet. For additional land per each additional dwelling you have to have and additional two thousand square feet of land. So the minimum lot size in the minimum lot size in an R-2 zoning is five thousand square feet. So what I did is I tried to calc out in six single families at five thousand, that is a requirement of thirty thousand for an R-2 zoning. The condominium lots at five lots at seven thousand would be thirty five thousand square feet. Then I have an additional fifty-one that would require two thousand square feet. Let’s see less five allow in two is forty six, number three I’m not sure on that five if it in a worse case scenario if you through that five back in there we would add ten thousand square feet. So I’ve come down the load of land required per zoning R-2 and R-3 zoning would be one hundred and fifty seven thousand. I believe that’s accurate but let’s say that number three I can’t explain, that would be a one hundred sixty seven. So we have at least twenty four thousand minimum excess land available when we tested our R-2 and R-3 zoning. I meet that requirement. Average square feet per, of land per dwelling unit, I have a total of just that four point three nine acres my average is thirty three hundred and fifty nine square feet per dwelling unit. If you don’t want to talk about the Carroll County portion that’s contributing to it, I understand. But, I think we’ve met, actually, there aren’t any requirements. Requirements are what you impose on me. So that is why I took the next closest thing as far as R-2 and R-3 zoning to try to make some comparison as far as what we are requesting.

Attorney Altman stated, the only thing I can tell you is, the affected cramming of a preliminary phase approval sets the die. After that he must affectivity conform to whatever the die is set at. Okay, but before that you have a chance the request and demand that he changes the request that he is presenting to you. After that you don’t have. He’s just got to conform with standards.

Gregg Jacobs stated, I would agree with that. What the point of contingents meant is that the final plan requires verses what the preliminary plat…

Attorney Altman stated, and they’re the same…

Gregg Jacobs stated, we haven’t talked about any concerns about the over all layout of it. It’s been mainly that I haven’t met requirements that I haven’t met that are required in the final plan development submission. That’s what we’ve been talking about.

Dave Scott stated, Jerry what’s an example of a condition that he doesn’t have here tonight that we couldn’t change if we didn’t like the final? Or is that an unfair question, I don’t know.

Attorney Altman stated, if you approve this preliminary plat, then he must develop it essentially the way his preliminary plan is. He can’t change it. He can’t put more apartments in. He can’t put them in insignificantly different areas. He couldn’t, he’d have to have a swimming pool as part of this. He’d have to have the ponds. He’d have to have the roads. He’d have to have the parking. I’m just trying to go through the things that I, that he does have here. And he would have to have…

Dave Scott stated, but the actual specs and everything for all that stuff would have to be met before the final approval?

Attorney Altman stated, yes.

Dave Scott stated, and if we didn’t accept the specifications or…

Attorney Altman stated, those specifications would essentially have to be per engineer standards type thing. About like Don was talking about, you know the cut being too much and it wouldn’t conform and that would be wrong. And he couldn’t do that. And that’s what I mean by the die being cast here with what his preliminary is.

Dave Scott stated, so basically what you’re saying is if we pass this tonight and there is something in here that we’ve missed, all he’s got to do is meet the secondary requirements and there ain’t nothing we can do to change it?

Attorney Altman stated, that’s right.

Greg Jacobs stated, can I read one paragraph that goes speaks to the question that was just addressed? It’s 5.2008, affect of preliminary phase approval of the planned unit plans.

(Continues to read the from the ordinance book, see Zoning Ordinance Article 5.2008)

Attorney Altman stated, the die is cast. That would mean if that in four years the standards for a line like what you’re talking about went from four inches to six inches, he would have to go to six inches. If it stayed at four inches or if he did it before three inches, three years, he’s got the benefit if he’s got four inches. It would be the standards okay.

Greg Jacobs stated, and I would be willing if you wanted to do it on a form. If Don wanted the plans of the highway with the new grading plan or anything, I mean I understand completely that I’ve got to satisfy each and every concern before the final approval is made. And we really are gearing up to break ground on some of the infrastructure hopefully, with positive approval in may. And I do understand everything that I have to do before I can even get the first building permit and that if there is any and if, but I would sure hope that you know maybe that within a week Jerry could put something in writing. I know exactly, I know pretty much everything we need. But, just so that I don’t miss something and if there is anything else that the board members would like, I assure you that I know that I have to address every one of them and that you have to be satisfied. Because if you’re not satisfied, you simply vote no to the secondary final plat approval and I can’t do anything until I come back and meet your requests.

Attorney Altman stated, that no would have to be hinge upon some standard that is recognized. It can’t I don’t like the way it looks. Now we can deny it based on esoteric confirmation and that sort of thing.

Jay Clawson stated, but if we like the way this looks, there is nothing really with what he has supplied to us so far, there is nothing holding us back from voting yes. I mean, the secondary approval has to do with all of the final specs and final engineering. If we like the premise, we think that this is a good viable project, it’s good for the community and other factors that are asked for in the premise of a Pud development. Those are the things that we are actually voting on at this time. That’s how I get it.

Attorney Altman stated, yeah. Without benefit of these other specifics.

Don Ward stated, I think that we ought to vote on it. We are voting on the general idea of it.

Jay Clawson stated, right.

The results of the vote were as follows: 7 affirmative and 1 negative. This will be presented to the White County Commissioners for their action.

Attorney Altman stated, This matter has been given preliminary phase approval.

Greg Jacobs stated, I believe I know substantially. And we’ll begin working on those aspects of it. If maybe there is any additional concerns or comments that anybody thinks of, I’m not sure of the appropriate is to go through Jerry or Diann but I won’t be back, I don’t believe that I’ll be back asking for final next month. I will be here for future Phase One. That was not listed for this one but so I guess that would also be an additional forum. But sometimes it takes a little while to get in on the board with the engineer and what not but I have a really good idea. But if there is anything else just please give them to Diann and get them to me as soon as possible and I will, I will get them all addressed I assure you.

Jay Clawson stated, like all your stuff from IDEM on your water system and anything, any information that you can send us that we can have to make our final determination. We’d like before hand as much information that we can look through with plenty of time prior. Because it’s hard for us to sit here in this hour and a half we have before the meeting and try to…

Greg Jacobs stated, right and what I would like to present to you as far as the well is concerned because the IDEM is a very slow process.

Jay Clawson stated, I understand.

Greg Jacobs stated, what I would like to do is present evidence that the well is a satisfactory means of supplying it. I know I got to do the engineering, I’ll do the engineering for the fire suppression system even though that’s the state code review but I’ll get that done as well and that the hydrant you know for the dry hydrant stuff. But so what I anticipate bringing back there cause it could take us four or five months to get an IDEM permit to be able to extend that water main. So I’ll bring the evidence that cause I think it’s fifteen is the limit, you know so I would have to have like five wells which you know doesn’t make any sense. And those things, so I’ll do that.

Jay Clawson stated, okay thank you. Business? No.

Director Weaver stated, I sent a fee schedule to you. I was thinking though on my way in tonight that I probably should have sent you the current one. So I would like to table that until next month. And I will send you the current one before we discuss that.

Jay Clawson stated, okay. Being no other business on the agenda.


Don Ward made a motion to adjourn.

Greg Bossaer seconded the motion.

The meeting adjourned.

Respectfully submitted,

Donald W. Ward, Secretary

White County Area Plan Commission

Diann Weaver, Director

White County Area Plan Commission