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The White County Area Plan Commission met Monday, May 8, 2006, at 7:30 p.m. in the Commissioners’ Meeting Room, Second Floor, County Building, Monticello, Indiana.

Members attending were: Jay Clawson, Gary Barbour, Charles Anderson, Charles Mellon, Donald W. Ward, Dennis Sterrett, Robert Thomas, and David Scott. Also attending were Attorney Altman and Director Weaver.

Visitors Attending were: Lloyd Mikesell, Carol Mikesell, Jim Holeman, Robert Schmitter, Mick Oilar, Sherry Oilar, Linda Hall, Dale Winger, Don Pauken, Herb Parrish, Greg Jacobs, Mike Weaver, Jeri Weaver, Nick Beasy, Terry Beasy, Linda Diggs, John Holden, and Ben Woodhouse.

The meeting was called to order by President Charles Anderson and roll call was taken. Jay Clawson made a motion to dispense with reading and approve the minutes of the April 10, 2006 meeting. Motion was seconded by Charlie Mellon and carried unanimously.

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#906 Robert P. & Sharon E. Schmitter; The property is located on .20 of an acre (Tract 21) & .21 of an acre (Tract 22), Out S ½ NE 34-27-3, located in East of Monticello, on East Riverview Road before Riverview Cemetery.

Violation: None

Request: They are requesting to rezone from A-1 to L-1.

President Charles Anderson asked, do we have anybody here representing that request? Come forward and state your name. And you are?

John Schmitter stated, I’m his son. My dad over here is Robert.

President Charles Anderson asked, and your name is?

John Schmitter stated, John, John Schmitter.

President Charles Anderson asked, okay, do the commissioners have any questions for Mr. Schmitter?

Don Ward asked, do you own that now? Are you trying to sell it or?

John Schmitter stated, my dad is trying to sell it.

Don Ward stated, that’s almost an un-buildable piece of property.

John Schmitter stated, well, I don’t know the real estate agent seemed to think…

Don Ward stated, that is practically a drop off…

John Schmitter stated, the real estate agent seemed to think that it’s a doable thing. I have no idea.

President Charles Anderson asked, the commissioners have any other questions about that?

Jay Clawson stated, I just have one concern about the grade of that lot and with the lake being right there, or the river being right there.

Don Ward stated, just almost straight up and down the hill right there.

Jay Clawson stated, right and there is really no parking up top either.

President Charles Anderson asked, who was the realtor that thought maybe you could build on that?

John Schmitter stated, James Mann. Jim Mann.

President Charles Anderson asked, anybody in the audience have any questions about that request for those?

Attorney Altman asked, when were the lots divided or made into those tracts?

Director Weaver stated, I don’t have any idea. I don’t know.

Attorney Altman stated, a long time ago.

Director Weaver stated, I believe so yes. Denny, do you have any idea?

John Schmitter stated, it’s been twenty-five, thirty years ago that I know of.

President Charles Anderson stated, if we don’t have any other questions can we get the…

Dennis Sterrett asked, they are probably meeting their leaps and bounds aren’t they?

Director Weaver stated, yeah.

Dennis Sterrett stated, not really.

Director Weaver stated, yeah they are.

Jon Schmitter stated, we were going to combine them into one with what I understand, we are going to combine them both into one.

President Charles Anderson stated, but still you are going to have to have room for parking and some way to build on that kind of slope.

John Schmitter stated, yeah well I understand that. That’s, but that’s from what Jim, that’s doable and I feel it is too. I mean, you can haul in fill to do the parking no problem at all, retaining wall. I mean, it’s, it can be done. There’s some contractors interested in building on it.

President Charles Anderson asked, the commissioners have any other questions before we vote?

Don Ward stated, I think that if you, to build on that would be an enormous cost to make something hold. I think you would have to go down there and level out down lower and then build straight up with a pretty great structure to hold it up there.

John Schmitter stated, yeah I understand that. I do understand that.

President Charles Anderson stated, your intention is to turn these into lots to sell. He’s wanting to sell these lots then.

John Schmitter stated, yeah as one, combined into one. Yes.

President Charles Anderson stated, I’d say let’s go ahead and vote on it.

The results of the vote were as follows: 3 affirmative and 5 negative. This will be presented to the County Commissioners for their action.

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#06-5 Gregory A. Jacobs; Requesting approval of a Planned Unit Development to be known as Windward on 1.51 acres, Part SE 28-26-3 & Lot 1in Whispering Winds Subdivision. The property is located South of Monticello, on the South side of Richey Park Road.

President Charles Anderson stated, do we have anybody here representing that request. Come forward and state your name.

Greg Jacobs stated, yeah, I’m Greg Jacobs.

President Charles Anderson asked, the commissioners have any questions for Mr. Jacobs about this request? Or are they listening? Do we have questions from the commissioners?

Jay Clawson asked, how wide is the road out in front?

Greg Jacobs asked, Richey Park Road?

Jay Clawson stated, no the road through all your intended buildings.

Greg Jacobs stated, well it’s showing twenty feet there. There, one of the things that I wanted to discuss with, we’re thinking about just leaving that as a private road with the HOA but right now we’re, we’ve got the forty foot there as far as the right-of-way goes. I would like to consider doing an eighteen-foot road. I don’t think the twenty-foot necessary for the limited traffic there. We feel that narrow will slow the traffic down as well. But unless there is some concern on the board’s part we would like to have the option to go either way as far, as well as to dedicate it as public or to leave it as private. Although we are showing enough right…or to do it.

Don Ward stated, if you’re going to go public you’re going to have to have twenty feet. Which I don’t think the county will allow eighteen will they.

Greg Jacobs stated, I’m not sure but if they won’t allow that, the other concern I guess is… It’s my understanding that I met with Steve Brooks, a couple of weeks ago to kind of discuss the road situation knowing that for secondary approval, he is one of the agencies that needs to sign off on it. And even though the subdivision ordinance permits concrete roads he’s staunchly against a concrete road of any kind. He just has a difference of opinion. He said it really wasn’t up to him. If it was up to him he wouldn’t let a concrete road go in. And that’s where he said there is a conflict between the Subdivision ordinance and his opinion.

Don Ward stated, having that concrete would be fine but it would have to be engineered in, probably re-enforced.

Greg Jacobs stated, yeah the specs that we are using on the Carroll County side would be to meet the state, the state highway specs. Is what they are requiring. I’m not sure if that is satisfactory or not.

Don Ward stated, that’s pretty good road.

Greg Jacobs stated, it is.

President Charles Anderson asked, any of the other commissioners have questions for Mr. Jacobs?

Jay Clawson asked, where is the parking? Where is the parking for all these?

Greg Jacobs stated, well each dwelling would have a two-car garage and then two spots outside the parking. Those are just pads. Those aren’t reflective of the actual size of the unit. What we’re designing is a two-story. Some with walkouts and walkouts to the East. There the footprint that we’ve come up with is either, it can be a combination of a twenty-foot wide unit or a twenty four-foot so realistically they will probably average twenty or forty four feet wide could be forty, could be forty eight foot.

President Charles Anderson asked, any other questions? Anyone in the audience have any questions about this request? You want to come forward and state your name?

Mike Weaver stated, my name is Mike Weaver. I live across the cove from the area being developed. I’m concerned about the density and the width of the access to have the road. The picture that I have doesn’t even show that existing pond that’s there. The way I understand it. Do you plan to back fill that pond or?

Greg Jacobs stated, no, the commissioners have the copy that shows the pond there.

Mike Weaver stated, okay, I was just concerned about the width of the property, actually having room for the road let alone houses as well.

Greg Jacobs stated, yeah, you can see there we’ve shown a gap there where there is no, there’s no structures there. We’ll have to do about a four-foot retaining wall. It will be about fifteen feet off of the road there. And there will be just a common area. But the design is that actually some of them will have decks that will actually extend out over the water. It will be a pier type of system, construction. But yeah they are very close in some spots to the water.

President Charles Anderson asked, you got a letter on this too that came?

Director Weaver stated, yes.

Attorney Altman stated, Greg, I’m sorry I don’t see anything on here that shows us anything about the pond other than I see the word pond written on a sketch here that has the word pond and by your name Jacobs.

Greg Jacobs asked, do you have this? This was furnished with the mailing. It has the pond on it.

Attorney Altman stated, I saw that but I didn’t, because it wasn’t on your property I presumed it wasn’t…

Greg Jacobs stated, and I apologize for the confusion. We followed up with the second one the day of the meeting that shows the pads to show how they situate on there and that one did not show the particular piece of property but it didn’t show the pond on it. But the full plat shows the, has the pond shown there.

Attorney Altman stated, so the pond would be on the, as shown on, looks like the North, the what you call a master plan. Addressed with land development of Carroll County so that the pond that is shown on the, where the acre is of 1.24 acres would be the pond there you are proposing?

Greg Jacobs stated, yes.

Attorney Altman asked, what’s the depth, is it round or?

Greg Jacobs stated, 10 feet. It’s got, I’ve got it’s not full by purpose there’s a construction plan that has to go forth and we really just didn’t get it final until the weekend before the meeting but this is a roughly two hundred feet off of Richey Park Road. This gives you a view and you can barely make out at the end there is a forty eight-inch drain culvert that the pond is just being kept empty right now because we don’t want to work at the water’s edge.

Attorney Altman asked, so it’s a pond that’s there right now?

Greg Jacobs stated, yeah it’s just not it’s just re-filling because we have some more clearing to do and say it’s just a matter of turning a valve and it’s got a drain on it and it’s just a matter of shutting that valve and the pond will stay full.

Attorney Altman stated, okay we’ve accepted into evidence apparently two photos but they are the same thing right?

Greg Jacobs stated, yes, same exact thing.

Attorney Altman stated, it shows the pond in its present condition. Thank you. I’ll mark that exhibit A.

President Charles Anderson stated, the Area Plan office has received a letter too. From Richard and Michelle Goebel and you want to put that into the record too?

Attorney Altman asked, yeah you want me to read that?

President Charles Anderson stated, yeah go ahead and read that.

Attorney Altman stated, okay. Was received April the eighth 2006 it is, shows our facts on there…

Continued to read the letter. (See File)

President Charles Anderson asked, would you want to respond to any of that, Mr. Jacobs?

Attorney Altman stated, the only thing is, included is a copy of something similar to what we have as our future phase one and received document and a fax to Area Plan.

Greg Jacobs stated, yeah if I may, I certainly respect Mr. Goebel’s opinions. I think obviously I differ with his explanation of responsibility or what’s responsible or irresponsible. As you know from last months meeting. Our plans changed and the whole scope of this project changed. But yes two years ago we spent about one hundred and fifty thousand dollars doing some ponds. And I’m sorry for Mr. Goebel but we haven’t progressed at a speedy enough manner for him but I think this goes all the way back to ninety eight or ninety nine and we unfortunately he has to look at this every single day. We got a very good lesson in restrictive covenant. We sold two lots in Whispering Winds to a log home developer and we were told a very nice log home would go there and it did. The problem was they attached and we fought very hard there was a lot of opposition to that six lot subdivision, this is Mr. Goebel’s view. He can’t even see the housing that is going on for the trees. We’re on the East bank probably five hundred feet away from him. But that pole barn is an example. That is a log cabin because it is attached to a 150,000 dollar log home and we had covenants but they weren’t, it was one of our firsts and we didn’t realize that you could add a pole barn to something and it’s a very nice pole barn. I mean, he was gonna do something with it. A bed and breakfast type of thing but we’ve learned from that certainly won’t be any pole barns. But the erosion that Mr. Goebel’s talking about. It’s really, it’s really non-existent. When we cut that bank down we were probably one of, I think last count we went out we drove around and took pictures actually for the SFLECC. Probably one of at least fifteen maybe twenty spots along the lake with high bank s that were eroding into the lake. And we spent a substantial amount of money to cut a road down to the lake. And we put riprap sea wall all the way around. And you’ll see some signs of erosion. Those show you that there is absolutely nothing going over the riprap. If you look at that view it looks like it’s eroding into the lake. It’s not. We have there is another good, it’s eroding. But it’s not going into the lake. The about three years ago we had an erosion problem that was so bad that it literally was lifting up our neighbors, Dan Cetera’s dock. And although no fault of ours but it was just silt build up that it literally gone out that far and lifted up his western slip. We took care of that when we did the ponds. There is another one of the riprap there. Here’s one to the West. Or going back to the South, I’m sorry. The, there is no erosion going into the lakes. Where, we watch it, when the silt comes up we’ve taken care of it. The product that we’re designing on the low end per town home would be in the one fifty, one sixty range. So as a combined product it would be about a three hundred and twenty thousand dollar product on up. It’s not a low end product. The road that speaks of, the road going in Richey Park services, Richey Park Road currently services about twenty-one residents. If you take, there’s two properties we happen to own that are at the end of Richey Park Road just South of this piece of this project. The road going into Richey Park is sixteen feet wide. There’s a…

Dennis Sterrett asked, that’s the surface?

Greg Jacobs stated, it’s actually it’s surfaced but it’s hard surface to gravel…

Dennis Sterrett asked, but it’s not a driveway is it?

Greg Jacobs stated, no it’s gravel to gravel. It’s asphalt, gravel to gravel I just kind of showed you on that. Trust me that the tape is on the gravel on the other side. That’s a view from the West. So you come back to Richey Park Lane, that’s at the stop sign and you go North, and you have about fifteen homes back there. I went back and I measured and the road back there is actually twelve-foot wide. The tenth house to the North. So five points back after you turn left it’s doing well for twelve foot wide. I believe those fifteen residents have maneuvered that very well. No question they slow down and somebody probably pulls over to maneuver back and forth. Our traffic won’t even hit that stop sign to get even there. You take a right, you go east to this is a view of that road to the North on Richey Park Lane, you go south, there’s about six homes that access. Which you’ve got to take a right from Mr. Goebel’s about three or four down to the left, beautiful place. He has about, about thirteen foot of road wide in front of his property. So Richey Park road really at it’s current width although it might be narrowed by, it could be argued that you know it isn’t a hazard and yes they will not travel it like they do Oakdale Road. Which is a twenty-foot, twenty-one foot grave to gravel. They just won’t do and I think that’s great. They don’t need to be travelling that fast to go a thousand feet back to the main you know the main Collector Street there. I think these yeah it’s been slow going. We’ve been doing this out of our pocket for a while and as you saw at the last meeting we’ve got, we have a substantial investment and we’re bringing it to punition now. You can rest assured we’re not out there to…

Attorney Altman stated, speak into the mic please.

Greg Jacobs stated, you can rest assured we’re not out there to waste our money and we’re building a very nice product so I appreciated your support.

President Charles Anderson asked, anybody else in the audience have any questions? You want to come forward and state your name again? Who ever wants to be first.

Mike Weaver stated, Mike Weaver again. I’ve got a couple of things I would like to talk about. First, I would like to challenge some of the things that were said about the erosion. They have installed riprap around the bend of the point of the area being developed but not all the way in the back of the cove. There is about, looks to be about six feet of erosion along the bank because of that. When they cut the bank out to make the access road it was just a shear straight up cliff. Now that cliff is starting to erode and there is some good size timber that is about to fall into the cove because of that. So being a property owner on the opposite side of the cove that’s my biggest concern. That cove is going to be blocked off when the timber falls. And my second concern is, one of the drawings that I have shows that the road is not a dead end road it actually goes straight through and ties into the other subdivision. So would that be constant traffic looping around that then? Look at your map there. This cuts it off but I have a drawing that has a wider view of that. Excuse me this is it right here. Richey Park Lane and then Oakdale Road is here. This is not a dead end. It actually goes straight through to the other addition. So that would create even greater traffic flow over here in this area.

President Charles Anderson asked, do you want to respond to that?

Greg Jacobs stated, yeah our intent as I said at the last meeting. Our intent is to actually gate the White County side of it so the traffic is not going to be allowed to free flow from the Carroll County side. The White County traffic yes, but our intent is to not provide an outlet. We have very good entrance, in fact we’ve gone to great pains to redesign so that we have one ingress egress off of seven seventy five where before we had several driveways and two outlets onto the road. We took back from one of our Carroll County, our first Carroll County Primary Approval meeting some concerns of the neighbors and we’ve gone back and the plans should be done this week. But completely redesigned it and put in more road. More road and actually some of it will be private. But our intent is for that main entrance that we’ve designed to be our entrance that’s the main focal point there so. This is the White County side is a gated concept from the Carroll County side. Our intent is not to do that.

Attorney Altman asked, where does it say that in your plan? I don’t read that in your plan. Tell us more about how it’s, flush it out a little bit, is what I’m really trying to say.

Greg Jacobs stated, I don’t understand flush it out.

Attorney Altman asked, where do you plan to have your gate?

Greg Jacobs stated, on the Carroll County side. Where there are two accesses. There is one to the condos to the West and there is one to this proposed area here that is right on the Carroll County side. You’ve got two of them there. That’s where it would be gated.

President Charles Anderson asked, but that is not written up in your plan as per say right now?

Greg Jacobs stated, no.

President Charles Anderson stated, we had some more questions out here in the audience.

Greg Jacobs stated, if I could respond to one more of Mike’s points. This is a picture, I think that piece of timber that’s ready is that tree there. That’s been there for years. It’s not eroding, if it falls in there. It just so happens we’ve cleared about three trees out of the bay that was there before. But that bank was one of the many that was sheared off level and literally eroding into the lake. No there is no riprap there but it’s what it’s been for years. And it’s not creating additional hazard from a silt standpoint.

President Charles Anderson asked, do you want to look and see if this is the tree that you are talking about?

Attorney Altman stated, with the addition of that photo the applicant has submitted fourteen photos and I’ve ordered them P-1 through 14.

President Charles Anderson asked, how long ago was this picture taken Mr. Jacobs?

Greg Jacobs stated, a month.

President Charles Anderson asked, is that before the leaves came on?

Greg Jacobs stated, yeah just before the leaves. They were taken just before the last meeting.

President Charles Anderson stated, which you can see the green just starting on them so it’s been about a month since that.

Greg Jacobs stated, we’re a month from that last meeting. So it could be as long as six weeks.

Mike Weaver stated, well I know that there are several fairly large trees that look like they are ready to go.

Greg Jacobs stated, yeah and if they fall, you know, we, we’ve cleaned up a lot. If they are not going to hit anything, they’re not big enough that they can get over across the bay or anything and right now there isn’t anything that appears to be unsafe. And if it does fall we will clean it up promptly.

Mike Weaver stated, I think the cove was probably fifty, sixty feet wide back there. We’re talking about seventy foot trees so it will probably go clear across.

President Charles Anderson stated, we got some more questions here. You want to come forward and state your name?

Dale Winger stated, my name is Dale Winger. I have one of the properties, in fact I have the log cabin that he was talking about. I had some concern, is this what we are talking about right here? I got this from my neighbors.

Several people said yes.

Dale Winger stated, I just don’t think there is enough room to put houses, condominiums in that area. Because I’ve walked to that pond on a daily basis and I just don’t think there is enough space in there to do that. That’s just my opinion Greg. And I think they should have a re-survey done to verify the space in there. I just don’t think so, there is enough space. Whether the piece of property he has going to, it’s part of the whispering winds is wide yes but not wide enough to support all those condominiums that he’s talking about adding in there. If he could show it to me you know in real life basis you know, I could understand but looking at this picture there is a problem in there some where. And the pond itself, I have no problem with the pond. There is some erosion. But I just imagine it’s because there is no water in it. Once the water gets in there it could stop but. I’m all for the pond but, I have no problem with it. I just don’t, I don’t back up to the property I back up through an easement that Greg has allowed me to drain my property into that pond but. I just, I’m just concerned about the width plus that a proposed road in addition to that one two three four five six seven eight nine condominiums in there. It’s just a little tight. It needs to be re-submitted with some new specs. That’s all I have to say.

President Charles Anderson asked, would you like to comment on that?

Greg Jacobs stated, yes please. If there’s, if it’s not plausible to construct something soundly and safely on the property, we’re not going to do it. I mean, we feel that we can get nine in there and if something happens and we can’t then we’re only asking for permission to go up to that nine single family or eighteen if it’s in a town home concept. You know, we have liability that we have to worry about. We have to have a product that’s gonna sell so there is no way that we are going to put something in there that’s going to slip into the bank or be structurally unsound. It’s just might be unorthodox to some and we are all entitled to our opinion but we have to live with the liability ongoing liability of a product that we put in there. And any reputable builder that might come in as well so. I think that concern is unfounded. The fact of the matter is we have eleven over eleven thousand square feet. Yes a lot of it is pond but of land available if you look at it on the grand scale of eighteen units. It’s like fifty five hundred and some odd square feet per dwelling. Or if you look at it like per pad, it’s over eleven thousand square feet of land so we think that with that on top of all the common space that we are providing in the other phase. We’ve more than adequately addressed the space.

President Charles Anderson stated, so eighteen would be duplexes, an upper and lower, is that it?

Greg Jacobs stated, well it would be side by side town home. Yeah a town home. A duplex is more I think I more of a single a ranch level type of thing. These are pretty nice product. Like I say they start in the 150, 60 thousand range for one side. So a dwelling would be an equivalent 325 to 375, 000 dollar.

President Charles Anderson asked, how many square feet would you have in each of these?

Greg Jacobs stated, well it would be what the market bares. But not including the walk out it could be anywhere from a twelve to two thousand square foot. The one the design has offered, it’s like a twenty two hundred square foot with the upper and lower. Our feasibility study shows us that you know the market is anywhere from a 1200 to a 2000 square foot.

President Charles Anderson asked, do we have any other questions then? You want to come forward and state your name?

Linda Diggs stated, I’m Linda Diggs. I’m looking at evidently a diagram here but I’m confused exactly what part of this is the acre and a half that you’re going to put the buildings on?

Greg Jacobs asked, acre and a half?

Linda Diggs stated, yeah that’s what the minutes here say. 1.51 acres.

Greg Jacobs stated, there is 4.39 acres.

Linda Diggs stated, oh well this is wrong.

Greg Jacobs stated, yeah it’s 4.39 acres.

Linda Diggs asked, okay and you are including this 2 point some acre pond?

Greg Jacobs stated, this area right here comes back into here is what’s…

Linda Diggs stated, okay, so what’s this 1.51 acres here.

Greg Jacobs stated, no I’m sorry it’s not 4.39 it’s…

Dennis Sterrett stated, the 4.39 goes on this acreage here.

Greg Jacobs stated, the 4.39 is this acreage right here.

Attorney Altman asked, is it 2.39 or what is it?

Greg Jacobs stated, it’s 103,245 square feet. So it’s about 2.39 acres.

Attorney Altman asked, okay so that includes the roads and the pond? Okay.

Greg Jacobs stated, yes.

Attorney Altman stated, okay that’s what I thought.

Linda Diggs asked, so the pond itself is not 2.39 acres?

Greg Jacobs stated, no. The entire parcel is.

Linda Diggs asked, okay so you are saying this 1.51 acres has nothing to do with this proposal here?

Greg Jacobs stated, well there is two different parcels there and one of those measures that and one measures that. So one is almost an acre there, that parcel there.

Linda Diggs asked, so both of these together you are saying is all of this here?

Greg Jacobs stated, yes. That’s correct. This here is the 125 by 300.

Linda Diggs asked, so in less than an acre you are wanting four homes?

Greg Jacobs asked, less than an acre?

Linda Diggs stated, yes you are saying this is 125 by 300 so unless that…

Greg Jacobs stated, yeah, but if you do the math Dale, in response to what Dale was saying. If you’ve got forty lets say we do forty…

Attorney Altman stated, talk into the mic please, we just don’t hear you.

Greg Jacobs stated, forty foot of right-of-way coming from the west and the product is somewhere in the forty five to fifty foot range so that leaves thirty five to forty feet from the rear lot line. Which is more than what zoning calls for, for a rear setback. So if…

Linda Diggs stated, yeah I would also have concerns with that many homes, single homes or duplexes on that small of an area. The other question I have is the sewer. Since the sewer is out there, all of this is going to be on the snow ditch sewer and their plant is big enough to accommodate all of this that is going to be going in?

Greg Jacobs stated, oh sure. I’ve already got approval for the wastewater.

Linda Diggs asked, with the current plant or are they going to have to build on the other facility?

Greg Jacobs stated, no we, we made plans back before snow ditch was even installed over there for this development too. The capacity is there.

Linda Diggs asked, with the current plant?

Greg Jacobs stated, yes and we should hope that we have increased density for the plant in hopes of bringing down our rates and…

Linda Diggs stated, I agree but I guess I didn’t realize that that plant was big enough to handle everything that you are putting in your other phases also.

Greg Jacobs stated, yeah. It’s over sized.

Linda Diggs stated, I know it was to some extent. But I wasn’t sure it was that much.

Greg Jacobs stated, we had to get an IDEM permit. And you know, so we were there while they were planning the Snow Ditch project through at every week and so we worked with the Snow Ditch. Too one of the things that is different about this development is we are on eight inch gravity like any municipality would be so instead of having fifty grinders or forty grinders out there in the development we’ve got, we’ll have three lift stations. We have two in place now. And so we have more typical municipal sewage sanitary system in like I say instead of all those grinders. And we had to work with them to get their approval to do that because it was different from what they were originally planning to do there. And that met with their approval and that’s why we did that.

Linda Diggs asked, now what about the grinders that are currently there at the end of Richey Park?

Greg Jacobs stated, well those aren’t included in this but there is one grinder there that takes care of Mr. Winger’s, Cetera and the two properties that I own there.

Linda Diggs stated, okay so that’s what all of those are right there at the end of Richey…

Greg Jacobs stated, those four are for the grinder that’s between Mr. Winger and…

Linda Diggs stated, no there at the end of Richey Lane on Oakdale Road there is what six grinders right there.

Greg Jacobs stated, oh those, that’s a transfer station. That’s to minimize the wear and tear on the grinders that we as individuals have. What happens is they dump that into that. You’re talking about on the curve there right? You’re talking about on the curve there where the six grinders are at?

Linda Diggs stated, right.

Greg Jacobs stated, that’s to take the stuff from the south and the Richey Park area it goes into there and they pump it from there over to the plant. And they do that because if they let every individual grinder take it all the way to the plant it would have, they would have premature wear out on the grinder motors.

Linda Diggs asked, so where are the ones for your area now at?

Greg Jacobs stated, if you go back into 775 North go back and take a left there like you’re going to go up to Upper Hambridge Road there. Right immediately when you take that left there you’ll see a small retaining wall and there is a six-foot concrete ring there. That’s a grinder capable of I think it’s rated for 104 or 106 homes. And then if you go down the hill into where the boat ramp is at, take a left there drive back almost to the end of the road there. There is another retaining wall and there is a grinder similar in size too there.

Linda Diggs stated, okay. Also a question came up on the gate. Is it going to be a permanent gate that will always be shut? Between the Carroll County and the White County and if, if you’re going to have a gate there why even have the road adjoin it all?

Greg Jacobs stated, that’s a good question. I don’t know. The intent is for it to be gated we don’t need this as outlet so if and it’s quite it would be quite detriment to the residence back there. The idea is a quite peaceful area so it just doesn’t make any since for us to want to route in fact I would go less than, that’s why I would like to keep it private. I’d make it sixteen-foot. Without a question it wouldn’t make since for me to want to route that whole development out that side there. There just isn’t any reason so I don’t have any ulterior motives for connecting the Richey Park, I really don’t.

Linda Diggs asked, no I just was wondering if it’s going to be gated why even adjoin it then?

Greg Jacobs stated, well that’s really a good question. I could save probably 50, 60 feet of road there. Only…

Linda Diggs stated, okay.

Greg Jacobs stated, the only real reason I guess that I could give you is that’s a nine hundred and twenty-foot road. So it you know, when we were doing the planning we can come in off of Richey Park road there and put in, you know, what ever a hundred foot of road. An access so our infrastructure costs wouldn’t be quadruple so we could actually build a product without going 920 feet and actually you would meet in the middle. So to speak, but it would build that direction anyway. We’ll build from the Carroll County line so there is really no other motive or ulterior motive it’s just, I guess it made sense.

Linda Diggs stated, well cause I know the Richey Park Road, two cars can pass. But it’ s you go very slow so that you know you have room. And my concern would be the excess traffic on that road and then like I said my other concern is four duplexes or single-family homes in less than an acre. That just seems very excessive for any area in my opinion.

Greg Jacobs stated, if I may, take a look when you drive home. Most of those, I mean there are some really nice pieces of property, but you go around any part on the lake and you have fifty foot lots. Some places you have forty foot lots. And if you look at the depth of those lots and whatever you are experiencing 4, 5, 6 to an acre in many, many spots around the lake. But density in Lower Hambridge, you know in Upper Hambridge and all around the lakes, it’s all on fifty-foot lots. Now there are some double lots, you have probable a half a dozen of them in Richey Park. That are, just have not been built on yet. And so and may never be built on but that kind of density is really not unusual for towns like Brookston and Monticello it’s the norm, but even on the lakes. That’s not unusual and although maybe it is a little higher density we have probably set aside close to three acres of common area. This isn’t a subdivision that we’re developing. This is part of thirty some acres over in Carroll County side and we’ve laid out some very large common areas. And what we’re designing is not a typical subdivision. It’s a plan development and we think we’ve done our homework. And we wouldn’t be spending the money that we are spending to have something wasn’t going to prosper for a few years. This isn’t something that’s going to be built out and we’re done with it in three years. It would be great if it was. But even then you know, our intent is to live there so it’s not that we are trying to build something that isn’t going to be there for many years and be a nice development.

Linda Diggs asked, you say you are planning on living in this area also?

Greg Jacobs stated, hmm..mmm…

Linda Diggs asked, you don’t currently live down there do you?

Greg Jacobs stated, no I live in Brookston.

Linda Diggs asked, so you plan on moving over there once you get all this done?

Greg Jacobs stated, before, be one of the first. I’ll have to live with my neighbors.

President Charles Anderson stated, but the reasoning behind the planned development isn’t to increase the density of the…

Linda Diggs stated, I would like to comment on that. I think a lot of those houses were built and you have this small because there was no zoning to prevent some of that. And there is concern of the density around the lake. Yes we have a lot but there is concern about that density and the size of the lots around the lakes.

Greg Jacobs stated, I think there is concern about the sewer. I think there’s people buying lots all the time and bulldoze them and build new homes thankfully to the sewer. And I think we’re seeing the market appreciate at a very attractive rate. But I’m not sure that there’s a lot of concern about what the density is. I think there is concern that people can’t improve their properties because their septics won’t meet the minimum standards. But thankfully now for those that have a sewer. And I think that is what we’re seeing is more money being sent on properties. And so we’re truly seeing a very good appreciation but I don’t know. But I mean, I don’t attend all the meetings here but I don’t know that there’s, I think that any time there is something new proposed there’s concerns about it. But and even the density yes in areas it might be considered dense and it is dense for a rural setting. But we live in that in Monticello, Brookston, Chalmers all of our communities. Even to this day the standards are still plotted at fifty foot. Fifty-foot is a good lot. And not everybody wants an acre or two acres to take care of. In fact, I would argue that the majority of the people as they age are looking for something that they don’t have to take care of all the time. I hope that’s right or I wouldn’t have a product to sell so…

Linda Diggs stated, I would have concern about the density. I also have concern about the extra detriment to the lake could be caused because of the excess. Because I do have concern about that also. The other comment I would like to make is that I’m not sure if you had said, I apologize, I did not hear what your intent is in starting this. Are you going to start this before you get the Carroll County side done or once you get Carroll County side done then will you at that point start to see if this is approved. Or are you going to be doing them both simultaneously?

Greg Jacobs stated, Our intent is to get the road back to the Carroll County side and start in the White County side first and use the wide grade scope going back in to the entry road. But our intent is to start on the south, on the Carroll White County line portion there. Is where…

Linda Diggs stated, so there will be a lot of traffic then because if you are going to come in from that White County side. You’re going to come in from the Richey Park Road.

Greg Jacobs stated, no, our intent is to come in from the Carroll County side and build that direction. What I was saying earlier is the only reason logically to be to come off of Richey Park was there’s room there for a product without putting in nine hundred feet of road to get over to it. You can put in a hundred foot of road and reach a couple of units there. So that’s the only reason that makes sense at this point. That’s why, you asked why I was wanting to…

President Charles Anderson asked, you got another question?

Linda Diggs stated, no that’s all my questions.

President Charles Anderson stated, we’ve got somebody else back there, would you like to come forward? Do you have something new or?

Carol Mikesell stated, maybe a little bit new and certainly I have some experience on a fifty-foot lot.

President Charles Anderson stated, you want to state your name too.

Carol Mikesell stated, my name is Carol Mikesell and I live in Lower Hambridge Addition, which is in the Carroll County side. And will be affected by Mr. Jacobs project when he comes in over in to the Carroll County and I believe this same commission when these plans were brought forth in ’03 there was concerns about fire protection and density at that time. So I don’t know if those issues were resolved how that might be a problem when you get into that density. And I just want to say as someone, who has had experience, lived for forty years and I know about fifty-foot lots and I have seen some neighbors almost come to blows over a fifty-foot lot. You build a forty-foot home five-foot setback on each side and they start putting in fences. Fifty foot lot, I think they tear down cottages too to build one house bigger lots is kind of the thing. And so the density is a problem for us too. As well as your White County side I think what ever the building is the size of the building and that sort of the thing. I think density is the thing that is affecting most of us and we do worry about our property values. The density that he is proposing, where we’re at and that is a Carroll County road and that going to magnify that traffic. And also this being lake property, I’m sure you all know there’s boats and there’s trailers and they are trying to get to the lake. And by the time you build a fifty-foot lot you go to park your car and your boat trailer and get to the lake and then are we ignoring funneling. These high-density things that funnel into small properties that we just totally ignored that impact. Not only does it affect White County but it’s also affecting us in Carroll County. So I would like for the White County Commission to look not only what’s happening here but just right on that same line. That density has even multiplied over there. So when you look at it in an isolated thing may not be too bad. 20, 30 houses but how many houses is he building over there. And I can tell you there’s not enough going on up there those people don’t have basketball courts they don’t have anything to amuse them. And what do they do they come right down to the lake and I can guarantee you they’ve come down to my boathouse and fished at midnight. They’ve gone through our boxes, there’s people that got chain link fences trying to keep their property secure. So density is not good for us and thank you.

President Charles Anderson asked, the commissioners have any questions for Mr. Jacobs? I got a little question on here we’re talking about a planned development on 1.51 acres. Where is the other acreage that you are talking about come into play on this?

Greg Jacobs stated, there’s two parcels there and there’s the 125 by 300. So if you add that the 125by 300 which was Lot 1 in Whispering Winds that is 37,500 square feet and then you take 1.51 acres and add the two together you get 103,245 square feet and so that’s where.

President Charles Anderson stated, but you’re just asking for 1.51 on this plan development is that what’s…

Greg Jacobs stated, no the sheet you’ve got I don’t understand why that but it’s suppose to be including Whispering Winds. That’s why we put the signs on the Whispering Winds side.

President Charles Anderson stated, okay so the two lots together that doesn’t give the size of the second lot on there. Okay. I get it. Are there any other questions in the audience? Do we have anything new? We know that the roads are a little dense too and not wide enough and these things. Do the commissioners have any other questions about this request?

Robert Thomas stated, I would like to see what is…

President Charles Anderson stated, what he is actually going to do, how many units he is going put in…

Jay Clawson stated, even the pads on surveyed lot with the elevations you know what the slope of each lot is would give us a better determination if that high density is…

President Charles Anderson stated, suitable.

Robert Thomas stated, with the road and everything. I would just like to see if it’s capable to handle that much. This little drawing just doesn’t quite give me enough information to make my decision.

President Charles Anderson stated, I think we just need more information he’s given us.

Don Ward asked, what’s the distance between a road right-of-way and those fifty foot pads?

Greg Jacobs stated, well it would be a minimum of twenty feet from the road to allow for off street parking.

Don Ward asked, between the pad and the road of way?

Greg Jacobs stated, between the street and the building.

Don Ward asked, you are talking about the paved part? I’m talking about the right-of-way part.

Greg Jacobs stated, that’s why I was coming earlier do we have to make it…

Don Ward stated, it’s private.

Greg Jacobs asked, it’s private right? So that we are not imposing on the forty foot. We don’t have that forty foot concern.

Don Ward asked, okay now the back of the pad is going to be on the, over the pump is that right?

Greg Jacobs stated, yeah in a couple of cases. At least the deck would be.

President Charles Anderson stated, personally I don’t think that we can pass something like that without knowing exactly how many homes would go in there. Where they are going to be, what kind of density, what kind of roads are going to come into it, what is going to happen to that pond. Other things I just don’t think that we’ve got enough information. Does anybody else other commissioners have any questions?

Attorney Altman stated, make it a motion.

President Charles Anderson stated, let me see anybody else’s response on that.

Jay Clawson stated, well I would like to know if there’s proper, you know if the pond is actually. I’d like to know where the pads sit in relation to the pond. Have that all shot in a real survey with it.

President Charles Anderson stated, well I thought we did that before, we ask if we did do this then we had some way to pump water in case of fire from the lake to this plan development too and there is nothing stated about that either. You want to respond? You want to state your name again?

Greg Jacobs stated, Greg Jacobs. It’s, I’ve spoken with not necessarily about this exact piece of property but in the other piece of property and even into the Carroll County side. I’ve met with Chief Logan and we’ve agreed and this really I believe would be part of the secondary. Because all I’m asking for is density up to a point. If I may be allowed the additional engineering that goes into this to go out and just physically do all of those. I still have to meet your final approval or I can’t do anything. So it isn’t just a matter of the board trusting that we are going to put something in that’s where it should be or shouldn’t be. If it can’t go there the board has the final say. But the roads are passable, you know wide enough to be passable by a fire truck and it’s one good reason why there should be a through street out. There’s no reason why we shouldn’t be able to have a through street out. But if Chief Logan which, he is one of the persons that has to sign off on final plat before it can be approved. He may want a dry hydrant somewhere in that street there. And as we’ve already done one at the boat ramp and agreed to put a hydrant on the other side we have no problem doing that for him. But we can’t get your final approval to do anything without the blessings of meeting any concerns about the road width or the road thickness and any other government agencies. Drainage the drainage board, highway department if we don’t go private, and it’s my understanding we have the ability to do that. That’s why I ‘d like to have that option to make that decision before the final, you know before we come back and spend the money on the engineering and all the stuff that we have to do to get your blessings. This is just a preliminary approval to allow us to proceed with the remainder of the engineering.

President Charles Anderson stated, okay but you wanted to be able to have that on that little over on that two acres a little over two acres to have to be able to have up to eighteen units on the two acres. Is that what you’re…

Greg Jacobs stated, if we could.

President Charles Anderson asked, that’s what you are asking for?

Greg Jacobs stated, yes that’s if we can.

President Charles Anderson asked, commissioners have any?

Don Ward asked, do each one of these homes have an outlet to the lake? Do they have a place, a boat ramp or anything?

Greg Jacobs stated, yes it’s all. Yes the whole development is will operate under one HOA. Different housing types will have different components because of the nature of the maintenance and what is required. But they all have access to all the common spaces in the Carroll County side. All common spaces are open to all of the residents in the development. The boat ramp, we have room for approximately one hundred boat slips. And not everybody that’s going to live there is going want a boat slip. And we do that as an al a cart, if they want a boat slip then they pay for it. There is going to be an in and out service for if we run out of those because there is going to have to be on going property maintenance to landscaping and yards and what not that goes on. So we’ll have a service there for those that don’t want, can have an in and out service for their boat.

President Charles Anderson stated, do the commissioners think that we have all the information that we need to be able to vote on something like that right now an eighteen units to go into that area? Do we have any response for that?

Jay Clawson stated, well I’m concerned with the density too. That seems like a lot.

Greg Jacobs asked, what do you feel is reasonable?

Don Ward stated, well I would like to see more distance between them.

President Charles Anderson asked, do you want to make a motion on what we want to see before we even vote on it?

Don Ward stated, well I don’t know the list.

President Charles Anderson stated, well you can start you’ve already gave one.

Don Ward stated, I agree with Jay. We need to see one of those fifty by fifty pads showing what’s going to happen basically to any fifty by fifty-foot pad. And what the relationship to that pond is going to be to the setup and we would like to know the parking. Like to know some of the dimensions like between the road and the pad and the road and the property line. And it would be nice if you had a typographic map of that area? It would be nice if we could see that. What do you guys got? You guys got anything?

Robert Thomas stated, I just think I would like to see more to what scale that you are doing. You know I realize that you just put this on paper and you’re saying they are fifty by fifty but I would like to see in scale how close it’s going to be to the pond or over the pond. How much you are going to have in front on to a scale you know.

Greg Jacobs stated, right. That’s to scale, except you want a bigger scale. You know that is scale, that one.

Jay Clawson stated, well I want to know what the exact dimensions of your, you know what the lot of your pond is. And how they relate to each pad there and actually what the fall typographical map of that and how it all falls in there.

President Charles Anderson asked, it actually isn’t a survey, is it?

Greg Jacobs stated, there is a survey. What you’re asking for is more of a, you’re asking for more of an engineered site plan and that’s fine I’ll do it on a larger scale. I mean I realize that’s a smaller scale.

President Charles Anderson asked, so somebody made a list down there? What we need to see before we do this? I’ll have you tell the easements and things like that on it too.

Greg Jacobs stated, see a lot of what you’re asking is for are the things the steps you go through once the preliminary is approved to get your final plat. It’s in concept in terms of what you are looking for in terms of the guidance to go through and do all of the rest of the engineering.

Jay Clawson stated, well we don’t want the whole engineering. But we want to be able to make a decision if eighteen units, we might decide that ten units might be all that we want to allow you to put on this. And that’s the big thing. We don’t want you to go all the way engineering but we want to have an idea of where they are going to sit and to the side and you now do we want to have you cut back to two or three lots I mean, right now it’s all. We’re not living in a flat world where yeah on a flat world it all works. But we want more.

Greg Jacobs stated, okay I can appreciate that Yeah I know want you want and I’ll and I should be able to have that by the next meeting.

Attorney Altman stated, do you have anything that might be handy to have on there is give an idea where the gating would be set up and how that would limit cause I think that would answer several peoples questions about the impact that would have on their properties.

Greg Jacobs stated, right.

President Charles Anderson asked, do you have, are you in Carroll County have you got that all platted out now?

Greg Jacobs stated, I don’t have final approval on one hundred percent. I’ve got my primary approval we’ve been to the drainage board last week because basically we know that that’s one of the, they don’t have an ordinance in Carroll County so the surveyors saying I’m not touching that. He’ll have to get it from the commissioners who are the drainage board. So we approached them a week ago Monday…

President Charles Anderson asked, do they know exactly how many units you are going to put on there?

Greg Jacobs stated, yeah they understand all that, I’ve met with the County Highway. We’ve worked through the plan of the road, he’s approved that. I don’t have my letter I don’t have my letter yet he’s waiting on the particulars on it. But we’ve got an average daily traffic study count and we’ve got our what they call it, your clear zone to meet his approval. So we’ve gone through all of that, all of those steps and…

President Charles Anderson stated, as far as the slips and everything, how about the lake association are they gonna give you what you want as far as one hundred slips on the…

Greg Jacobs stated, well we already have sixty-five or so in. And we’ve been to them and there’s, the only time when we went to get our last approval their only concern was if we were going to put them in to rent them out. And that’s not what we do, we have maybe three or four that are on SFLECC jurisdiction over in the bay that we’ve rented out in the past, I think we’ve got one rented out this year. We just haven’t actively tried to rent them, we’re not in the dock rental business. So even if they did not approve what we would like to do in the front there. It doesn’t mean that there isn’t we don’t have a product that’s going to be accepted by the buyer. We have like I say we have sixty-five lot lake slips.

President Charles Anderson stated, so the commissioners, can I get a feel. Do we think we have enough information we want to table this to the next meeting? Do we have a motion to do that?

Don Ward stated, we don’t think they do. We would like to see more over here I don’t know about over there.

Dennis Sterrett stated, I’m concerned about the density too.

President Charles Anderson asked, okay do you want to make a motion that we table this? And then give him the list of what we need to see.

Don Ward stated, well we don’t have a list worked out yet.

Attorney Altman stated, we can make that out real easy listening to the record tomorrow and give it to you.

Greg Jacobs stated, yeah I know what you want.

Don Ward stated, can I make a motion that we table this until we have more information.

President Charles Anderson stated, wait a second. Do you want to come forward before we table this thing? Okay.

Mike Weaver stated, I’m still concerned about the access as you’re on Richey Park and you face south on the west property line. It looks like to me there is not enough room even for a road let alone the houses. That’s my concern, I would like to invite everyone to…

President Charles Anderson asked, would you like to be able to see how that road is going to attach to the road?

Mike Weaver stated, you know, the pond on the map. Some better-surveyed numbers I guess. I would like to invite every one to come out and look at the very thing I just mentioned. I think also but maybe everybody in our area would feel better if he would talk about putting a gate here. Maybe if he had access only from White County rather from Richey Park. That would eliminate all of the traffic coming from Richey Park Lane because we are concerned about the width of that. I know when I pull my boat in and out if I meet another vehicle on Richey Park Road, somebody’s got to go in the ditch. Hopefully it’s not me with my boat but occasionally that’s the case.

President Charles Anderson stated, I don’t think that you stated your name when you got up there.

Mike Weaver stated, oh I’m sorry. Mike Weaver. So I guess to me if you all could just drive out and look at it. Like I say look standing on Richey Park Road face south along that west line. You can see where the pond actually comes up fairly close to the fence and that’s why I commented earlier about the you know, are we gonna back fill the pond. How are we going to get the width for even a road let alone a home.

Greg Jacobs stated, there is probably one hundred, one hundred and fifty feet there. That I said you can see the gap there where we’ll do about a four-foot retaining wall to maybe a common area there and there’s not room for. In order to build a road that’s gonna with stand you know not have any erosion problems and have some, some buffer yard off to the side. We have to do that. And I’ll show that when we come back.

Mike Weaver asked, is the property line where the fence is or do you actually own into the tilled ground there?

Greg Jacobs stated, it’s pretty close to the fence line.

Mike Weaver asked, is it? Okay.

Greg Jacobs stated, and I believe we’ve got a couple drain lines to there’s a couple small ravines and I’m not saying that the site is perfect and ready to go without work I mean. And I’ll show that, I’ll show the as built or the as is in the as build drawing.

Mike Weaver stated, I think I could make a better judgement with more information really.

President Charles Anderson stated, okay well get the motion going again. We’re back to…

Attorney Altman asked, Don do you have a motion?

Jay Clawson stated, I’ll second.

Don Ward stated, I make a motion that we table this P.U.D. until we have more specific information that we have discussed in the last few minutes.

President Charles Anderson asked, okay and have you written them all down that you have discussed?

Don Ward stated, no I have not written them down no, I’ve got it up here.

Greg Jacobs stated, I have a very good feel for what the board wants.

President Charles Anderson stated, I would like to be able to see and I’d like to see it in relationship to what you’re doing in Carroll County too. Bring something in from Carroll County that shows us how it is going to tie together. And whether you are going to have a road through to Carroll County or are you going to block that access to Carroll County off on that too.

Jay Clawson asked, are you gonna second that? Motion to second. You want to vote?

President Charles Anderson stated, all in favor raise your right hand, left hand it don’t matter any hand. So it is to be tabled to the next meeting.

Attorney Altman stated, I have one more photo returned that I need to put into record. And the ballots.

****

President Charles Anderson stated, next on the agenda would be business. If anybody here came for this and they don’t want to stay for the business meeting they can leave now if they want to. And on business we’ve got a familiar name.

Greg Jacobs stated, first of all I want to go on record and this is Greg Jacobs. But if it wasn’t for my neighbors and out of respect for them driving over here tonight I want the board to know that I would table this until the next meeting because I’m not in that big of a hurry. But we have some, I noticed some familiar names and they came over here I think to comment on this and I just wanted to open this up for discussion so I might be fully prepared. Quite a few years we bought what is commonly known as Lake Brookston I think. Over the years we’ve had a substantial amount of flooding on this 3.35 acres that we own on the far Northeast corner. We’ve worked with Denny to open up, we feel that we know that the drainage problem is caused by a clogged drain. It’s gonna cost us a couple of thousand or better dollars to do some further engineering and bring a field crew out and prove out our theory. I still believe we have a clog and I’m hoping we can excavate the tile over by the state right-of-way.

Don Ward asked, which way does that water go?

Greg Jacobs stated, the water comes from two directions. The tile starts at about four hundred feet I believe, North of our East property line. Out in the, that field to the North. And about on that property line and then about eighty feet to the East there’s a catch basin. A fifteen-inch catch basin that right on that North property line of Dave Kent’s farm. And in talking to Dave, it’s my understanding, my theory was first of all the other portion of it there is about an eight inch tile that goes to the Northwest and it shows the town of Brookston is draining forty some acres into this ditch or tile. And they don’t have any clue how that could be or where it’s at because where it goes is in area that is not even in the county. It’s off that Demeter and united or the old United property. And what we’re starting to, my theory is that because of head pressure they are higher elevation. We’re higher than across the highway to the South. And our theory is that the water is not getting out of our property and through the state. The state ditch on both sides has a catch basin off line of the, of this tile so you can’t look in there and see the free flowing. But I can tell you this other than maybe when we got that eleven inches or how many inches of rain. There might have been some ponding then and I think there was a problem with it. But every time we flood other than maybe that one instance, there’s never been water standing that I know of in the ditch on either side of the state right-of-way. So that tells me that it’s getting on across the road and going on down the field. We’re higher than that. They’re higher than us at Demeter. And Demeter has a substantial amount of drain system. We don’t know if it goes to the Northeast or if it all comes down to our direction. We haven’t figured that out. We think that we have two things we need to do. And one is to get a field crew out and take some elevation shots and do as best we can of an as built and of what’s going on. And then we also are hoping that we can get Denny to come out one more time. If we can excavate down by the right-of-way, the state right-of-way and jet we’re going to find another clog. We know that we had some trees, that we have some trees on the property there that are about ten feet off the, where the catch basin is. And I believe that the roots had grown in to the tile and were part of the problem. One of the other problems is that we have kids next door at the trailer park that pull the grate off and drop limbs down in there. That can’t help anything but. So we’re going to once we feel like we’ve unclogged this and maybe we need to jet it. But we think that’s the next necessary to fix what I believe is a clogged drain. And talking to Dave Kent he’s indicated last week that for years water has bubbled out of his drain. And his connects to us. His comes from like I say eighty foot East and comes North, goes Southwest and connects into our drain and ours goes Southeast on across the highway. So Dave’s confirming what I, I have never personally seen it'’ just what I surmised. And so we think that the problem can be fixed. But without taking some expense on our part. What we would like to do at the expense of the county drainage fund that is for that, is take one last shot at making sure the we don’t have a clogged drain. And then if depending on what we find there, then what we would like to do is first go through the preliminary steps and make sure that we have if we can fix one. And we know that to get final we have to meet the drainage approval. So we know that that is the number one and the most difficult thing that we can do. So we want to get our preliminary approval for this piece of dirt in order to feel good about investing the money that we may end up having to put the pond in first and we may. And to do that we’re gonna have to do some as builds and research with an engineer to really prepare a drainage plan. Which is gonna be fairly expensive. So what we would like to do is be able to go forward with that and prove our theory. If it continues to flood then we might at best have a piece of dirt worthy of a single-family dwelling. Which right now what we can legally do with it we can, when we bought it, since then the zoning changed and you know it used to be when you had an R-4 you can do an R-3 an R-2 an R-1 anything that was under that. Well now what it’s zoned for is a mobile home park. And in that zoning we can either do a Mobile Home Park or one single-family dwelling.

President Charles Anderson stated, you would have to get state approval for a mobile home park.

Greg Jacobs stated, well we’ve been through that you know we can do that. We don’t want a mobile home park. There is already one next door. The town doesn’t need a mobile home park.

We could get somewhat close and fall under the mobile home park zoning. And you’ve got a couple lay outs there we’ve played with early on and one’s laid out with mobile home park lots and then one is our intent is not to do anything multiple family. That was just designed with some pads that would have been maybe six-plexes or something. That is not the product we want those were done a few years ago. But if we can correct the drainage it would be a private road with HOA because we don’t have enough to give you forty foot of right-of-way. We’ve got utilities, they are all there at the property. Water and sewer and electric, we’ve, and although the town of Brookston basically has the final say on it. What we wanted to do was just open it up for discussion and try to meet your preliminary approval before we spend any money to fix the drainage problem.

President Charles Anderson stated, I think we’ve got some people that want to talk about it. You want to come forward and state your name.

Attorney Altman stated, the only thing I can say is from a legal point of view we really can’t give any kind of approval that because it hasn’t been noticed up, it hasn’t nobody’s we’re just talking tonight.

Greg Jacobs stated, exactly.

Attorney Altman stated, the word approval from this board just can’t happen.

Greg Jacobs stated, not tonight. No I know and that’s.

Attorney Altman stated, so that every one understands that too. Really what I’m trying to say it isn’t because we don’t want to but we can’t.

Mik Oilar stated, my name is Mik Oilar. My wife and I have owned the property adjacent to this property for twenty-eight years. We’ve always had flooding problem. There is a county tile running through the middle of this property that the county has a seventy five-foot right-of-way on each side. I would like to know what recourse where I have if he develops this and the water comes on my property. If he fills it in and I can present, I would like to present some pictures to show you that this out of twenty eight years probably close to twenty years this floods every year. It’s a natural bowl and it floods. And I want to know if I have any recourse. And it’s never been on my property. If the water comes up on my property if he builds up then what recourse do I have, and the other property owners? So if I could I would like to present some pictures and show you what I’m talking about.

President Charles Anderson stated, no we can’t accept them on record or anything like that but we can look at them.

Mik Oilar stated, okay.

Attorney Altman stated, and as far as recourse that why you need to have your own attorney.

President Charles Anderson stated, yeah it would be your own personal legal recourse.

Mik Oilar stated, right now and if they approve it and then water gets on my property and recourse is that I can sue him. But then ten years down the road before I get something done. And that’s behind our property like I say we’ve lived there for twenty-eight years. It’s a natural bowl.

Jay Clawson stated, was this during the 2003…

Mik Oilar stated, we have several times. In twenty-eight years we’ve probably had close to twenty years. If we get heavy rain it just floods the whole area. That’s what I’m concerned about.

Charles Mellon asked, does it get worse there than it does in those two holes on the Northwest side towards on the Northwest?

Mik Oilar stated, yeah it does, I’ve been out there in a boat.

Attorney Altman stated, you might listen to your surveyor.

Charles Mellon asked, is there maintenance on that county tile? Are you paying maintenance on that county tile?

Mik Oilar stated, it belongs to the county. We live in town and then the three acres…

Charles Mellon stated, yeah but if it’s a county tile then it has maintenance on it should be cleared out.

Mik Oilar stated, they went in last year and did maintenance on the tile. I think it was Mr. Cane, Toby Cane …

Greg Jacobs stated, Toby Cane did it. He was in twice. And that was the first step I’ve really beat myself like Dr. Gish. I bought it from Howard Gish and Howard sold the property to the Millers for the trailer park next to it. So we’ve had a situation for all these years. And I think Dave Kent has probably said it best for thirty years I believe he told me. He’s had water bubbling up out of his drain. And that’s because until whatever, a few months ago that was the first effort made to unclogged the tile. So I, believe me, I appreciate everything Mik’s saying and all I’m asking for is just to open it up for discussion. Cause I realize that the drainage problem is the number one thing that has to be corrected. And we just can’t go and correct it and start building we need to again make sure that it isn’t plugged and then wait. It’s like I said at the town board meeting, this could take a year once I do something to prove this out and get some rains worthy of it. And see if Dave’s drain quits bubbling up and…

Mik Oilar stated, well my understanding is that drain runs about four miles to the North or Southeast out to moots creek.

Greg Jacobs stated, yeah and but…

Mik Oilar asked, are you going to take care of all that if there’s a problem there?

Charles Mellon asked, southeast of Moots Creek?

Mik Oilar stated, southeast of Moots Creek, yes.

Greg Jacobs stated, no I’m going to correct the problem where I believe the problem is.

Mik Oilar asked, if you correct it there but if the problem is south, how are going to take care of that and not?

Greg Jacobs stated, that’s not my problem.

Mik Oilar stated, well okay then what I’m saying is if the problem is south of you and that still floods, what recourse do I have? See what I mean?

Greg Jacobs stated, no what I’m saying is…

Mik Oilar asked, how are you going to take care of it then?

Greg Jacobs stated, what I’m saying is that we believe that the additional clogged tile is between the state highway…

Mik Oilar stated, what if it’s not is what I’m saying.

Greg Jacobs stated, then we can’t correct the…

Charles Mellon stated, you should start down there at the out building.

Greg Jacobs stated, well but see we have it’s kind of like the reason the water is bubbling up on Dave’s and my drain now is because they…

Tape ran out the second tape continued as follows:

Charles Mellon stated, that’s the place to start.

Jay Clawson stated, right.

Greg Jacobs stated, well it’s getting away south of us.

Charles Mellon asked, do you have to go through some of Lehe’s ground?

Greg Jacobs stated, and it’s getting away south of us and the field of the south of us. So I mean if they don’t want to correct the problem on their own and continue to live with the flooding. I don’t think that I can help that. All I can do is try to elevate the problem on my end. And if what I do on my end elevates the flooding there, where’s the concern?

Charles Mellon stated, the reason that’s getting off the south end, that ground is higher and if the over flow is getting off the south ground that has nothing to do with the tile the water getting off of the south ground. If it don’t pond you’ve got to have the outlet open down at the other end to take care of all of it up north. So it’s clear across the agri, the con agri farm up there to forty three.

Greg Jacobs stated, see what we have here Charlie is we have the field to the south of Doc Lopp’s on the south side of the road. It’s got a similar situation. All the state water from what I can see, they are problem is the same as mine. Except they are not getting my water. The water is stopping at my place and very slowly getting out. The waters coming from the state highway ditches and it’s going down and it’s bubbling out of the tile a thousand feet south in the middle of that field. It bubbles out and actually gets to the point where it will go over the road what ever that road is to the east, and it will flow over that road because it can’t get out farther to the south.

Mik Oilar asked, well you had Mr. Cane come up last year, right? Did he correct the problem? No. We had flooding this year. So…

Greg Jacobs stated, what I just…

Mik Oilar asked, my point is your, what recourse do I have if you start flooding our property and building out there?

Greg Jacobs stated, Mik, I’m not wanting to do anything without proving the problem is fixed. I’m not looking to go out there and start building houses to, I’m looking to correct a drainage problem.

Mik Oilar stated, that’s been there for twenty-eight years.

Greg Jacobs stated, it doesn’t mean it can’t be…

Mik Oilar stated, and you went out there last year and you didn’t get it corrected so.

Greg Jacobs asked, so just because that didn’t stop does that mean that we shouldn’t try again?

Mik Oilar asked, what I’m saying are you going to get it corrected though? I don’t want…

Greg Jacobs stated, I don’t know.

Mik Oilar stated, I don’t want your approval before you know…

Greg Jacobs stated, we’re not asking for approval tonight.

Jay Clawson stated, there has to be a drainage plan approved that works because he can’t build something that’s going to flood your property.

Greg Jacobs stated, right.

Mik Oilar stated, exactly that’s my point.

Jay Clawson stated, that’s the whole scope of the drainage ordinance is that we can’t let, he can’t get a building permit until he passes that. Whether or not the engineering is able to decide that he can or like he said if he can’t get any type of drainage the only thing he might be able to do is put one house on that property. That’s about all he may be able to put on that. If he can’t ever get it drained right. And that’s why we passed that to protect the homeowners around it because we wouldn’t want to do that to you.

Mik Oilar stated, I’ve never had a problem. I’ve never had water on my property.

Jay Clawson stated, I understand. He can’t build it up to where you become the low spot.

Don Ward stated, and the first thing is to get the tile opened up or make sure it’s open. If there is no drainage then it’s a dead issue.

Mik Oilar stated, well I apologize for being so testy.

Several people said that’s all right.

Don Ward asked, well what’s the problem off of forty-three? Is that still part of that same problem?

Mik Oilar stated, yeah it probably is.

Don Ward stated, there’s water that stands there a couple of places for months at a time.

President Charles Anderson asked, do we have any other questions out here about this?

Jim Holeman stated, my name is Jim Holeman. I represent Audrey Miller and the mobile home park. And our concern is the same. You know on March 13th of this year we had two inches of rain and we had water up on our road so I guess our concerns are what the concern with. You know if create more homes there we are going to reduce the water absorption rate and create more water shed so it’s got to go some place so. That’s our concern.

President Charles Anderson asked, does anybody else have?

Dave Kent stated, hello. I ‘m Dave Kent. I farm to the east of Greg’s property and also I farm a quarter mile south on north of 1050 south and west of 75 east. And I have some pictures here of that particular farm. There is the water tower in Brookston. The pond after it went down. All that property…

Dennis Sterrett asked, when was this taken?

Dave Kent stated, that was 2004. All of that property is drained by the Victor drain, which goes through you. So and by experience that Victor Drain that goes underneath the property you’re looking at is quartered it’s smashed down so probably capacity is down so. And it would be my guess that that’s part of the problem on you. You know it’s not getting away and at that point we’re only probably six hundred feet from the head wall that goes into a ditch and a ravine or a flow area and then it goes on down to the creek.

Charles Mellon stated, if that water is flowing out of your air well or your catch basin the troubles on below you. But it ain’t getting away.

Dave Kent stated, well in 2004 I was out in this pond and in the area that Greg was talking about bubbling and that’s why I went out in that boat.

Dennis Sterrett stated, actual this picture shows the water over the inlets of the state highway.

Charles Mellon stated, I don’t know if that’s an area plan problem or not. It sounds to me like it’s a drainage board problem.

Mik Oilar stated, and also if you go out in the farm community and you go by these houses just about everything is on a hill and there’s a reason. You know you wouldn’t build in a pond. But what Greg would like to do that is definitely a pond.

Greg Jacobs stated, well I would create a functional drainage pond. I would like to see if I can correct the problem. I don’t want to build there if I can’t correct the problem. That’s all I’m trying to do if I can correct that problem.

President Charles Anderson stated, I don’t think that’s up to us. We can’t give you any approval to go out and correct that problem.

Don Ward stated, that’s basically you have to do that first then we can talk to you.

Dave Kent stated, yeah I suppose the problem it could take several years to figure this out, if we might go through a period we may only have a two or three-inch rain and three years down the road…

Don Ward asked, where’s the tile outlet that goes to the Moots Creek? Where’s that outlet?

Dave Kent stated, it’s on Lehe property. Just about.

Don Ward asked, is that the one that drains around behind those houses on 1100 East?

President Charles Anderson asked, what time does it flow out of there?

Dave Kent stated, pardon me.

President Charles Anderson asked, what time does the flow out of the Lehe Property?

Don Ward asked, is that where the water comes from around those, you know the houses on the North side of the bridge? On 1100 East there is a lot of water that comes right down through there. There is a house down at the bottom there too.

Dave Kent asked, oh right down there by Moots Creek?

Don Ward stated, yeah.

Dave Kent asked, well this is back, do you know where Dick Lehe lives?

Don Ward stated, yeah. Big ol’ house.

Dave Kent stated, well it’s a fairly modern house it was probably built in the late sixty’s early seventy’s. It’s probably four hundred feet Southeast of his house. Out you know they’ve got a field there and it’s in a pasture…

Charles Anderson stated, flows into Moots Creek there.

Dave Kent stated, and it flows to Moots Creek, it comes into headwall, I don’t know how far it is down to the creek.

Dennis Sterrett stated, plus there’s two other tiles that help with that.

Dave Kent stated, yeah I think the Finch Drain goes in there and the Victor and that eight-inch tile you’re talking about that could be what they call the cannery tile. There is the eight-inch or something goes across me too. I’ve got two big tiles and you know the county drain and then another drain that goes across me.

President Charles Anderson asked, but you still get ponding when you get the big floods in those areas too?

Dave Kent stated, I get very little ponding from Greg’s area to get the Northwest corner of the field and it probably takes out an acre. And that ponding you saw there in the pictures that’s probably the worst I’ve ever seen it. You know this is all looking Northwest of his property. Here Greg you can look at these.

Greg Jacobs stated, and that one where it went in the state ditch. That’s one the rain that I was talking about a couple of years ago that you know I forget now what it was, seven inches in one day or something that we got there. So and it could have ponded before that but actually, we actually get some flow from Dave right at, there is a point there where it actual follows the tile where his will actually flow on over the top of the ground and come on into us. So there’s not I’m not here to dispute as I’ve said. I’ll go on record I have lake Brookston. And I don’t want it, I want to control it. And but for me to go and meet the drainage. I think that’s a little the whole purpose of the preliminary approval is to know that we have support for the plan and I know I haven’t presented a plan to you I just want to open it up for discussion. But in order to spend the money that needs to be spent to engineer a product that would be approved by all county agencies. And we know that first and foremost has to be the drainage so just because you give me a preliminary approval doesn’t mean you’ve given me permission to build anything. I have to come back to you and prove that we have met all requirements of it. Otherwise I don’t have anything so I just don’t want to spend the money and the reason this continues to flood for twenty-eight years is because nobodies taken the effort to correct the problem. I don’t know that I can correct the problem. I’m willing to try.

Don Ward asked, well which came first the chicken or the egg? We’re kind of waiting on you to in this case to see if the drainage is going to work before we’re going to say anything I think. You guys agree? We’re not gonna put ourselves on the line until we know whether or not the drainage is going to work.

Greg Jacobs asked, well isn’t that the reason that we have a primary and a secondary approval or final in this case?

Don Ward stated, no I don’t think that’s it.

President Charles Anderson stated, not for the drainage.

Charles Mellon stated, well it’s up to the drainage board. They’ll say yes or no. What chain, did it do you any good when you spent money on chain it don’t look like it would. If you know’d water was on South of you and not getting out of the tile why would you spend money up there and your pond, it wouldn’t get away.

Dennis Sterrett stated, there were some roots in the tile.

Charles Mellon asked, what?

Dennis Sterrett stated, there were some roots in the tile.

Greg Jacobs asked, until we put some effort into that how do we know that it’s not being fixed? We had roots in the tile…

Charles Mellon stated, that’s what I wanted to know.

Greg Jacobs stated, well that’s what I was saying earlier Charlie, we know we corrected one problem and I’m saying that the water in the ditch is an extraordinary example of a seven inch plus rain. So that might have even been a hundred-year rain, I don’t know. But for the most part unless there’s another instance that I’m not aware of and I’ve only been involved with it for maybe twelve years but I know that Doc Gish never had any interest in it. And so I know for a fact that nobody until this last time has put any effort into trying to correct the problem. And we know that it was improved slightly, I don’t know that it was corrected and I just still think that there is a plug between the North side of that highway and us. And all I’m wanting to do is…

Mik Oilar asked, can I say one thing?

President Charles Anderson stated, state your name.

Mik Oilar stated, Mik Oilar. He had the tile cleaned and it flooded again this year. So the problem has not been solved.

Charles Mellon stated, is the tree still there that the roots get in it.

Greg Jacobs stated, yes the trees are still there. I am very well aware that the problem has not been solved that’s why I’m working on it.

President Charles Anderson stated, I don’t think that’s for us board to decide that anyway. I think you ought to go before the drainage board and try to see if you can fix that tile if you can…

Dennis Sterrett stated, like Dave said it is probably it’s quartered he knows his quarters down there. And I’ve seen water sit on Dave, which is south of Greg. So if it’s setting on Dave’s it’s not plugged between you and Dave.

Greg Jacobs stated, it’s not plugged between the state and Dave. And I don’t know for a fact but I’m saying that it’s, I’m betting that it’s plugged between the state right-of-way and my outlet. And yeah it did flood I’m not disputing that it’s continuing to flood but the drainage was better.

President Charles Anderson stated, I don’t think we can do anymore here.

Jay Clawson stated, I don’t either. But I think it needs to, he needs to get it where it’s not holding water before he even comes to us.

President Charles Anderson stated, yeah and you’re going to have to go through several…

Jay Clawson stated, I mean if they can create, alleviate the problem where it’s not a lake and then is that way for several years. Then maybe we can start thinking about maybe looking at…

President Charles Anderson stated, Several years and several three to five inch rains cause you’ll get those routinely you’re going to have those. And we don’t want somebody building a plan development in an area that is never, the homes are going to fill up with water too.

Dennis Sterrett stated, yeah that’s the only way you are going to know if it’s going to work.

Greg Jacobs stated, your ordinance doesn’t even permit me to move forward past the plan stage. All primary approval…

President Charles Anderson stated, yeah but you’re going to have to figure out if you can drain that first. It’s not up to us to drain that.

Greg Jacobs stated, no but…

Jay Clawson stated, well it can’t handle…

Greg Jacob stated, you’re not giving me a final approval.

President Charles Anderson stated, we’d be giving you a primary approval.

Jay Clawson stated, well it can’t handle the water with no development. Let alone putting any asphalt or anything that’s not absorbing. I mean that’s the whole idea of the drainage plan is to go in and make sure that what you develop isn’t creating more water that is going, it can’t handle the water that’s there in a natural state. I mean and a lot of people would call that a wet lands or…

Dave Kent stated, occasionally wet.

Jay Clawson stated, I’m not that familiar with your property enough to state that. But I mean in IDEM or the department of Natural Resources states that if there is so much sitting on it, growing naturally they can deem it as a natural wetland. But like I said I don’t know that for sure.

Greg Jacobs stated, all I’m asking Jay today is not to belay you or keep you any longer all I’m asking is for you to review your own ordinance and the relationship to the purpose to the primary approval. I can not, all that’s doing is giving me some semblance of an okay and in theory what I’m wanting to do is okay but I can’t do it unless I get as it says all county agencies approved the plan. And you can bet that I’m not going to get an approval from drainage.

Jay Clawson stated, yeah but if you can get that drainage thing straightened out to where you know it’s dry for a certain amount of time then we know that is actually drainable property then we can. I mean but we can’t do anything knowing, not knowing it’s not going to be drainable. I mean cause if it’s going to be naturally a pond every time that it rains I mean if you can go several years through big rains and they have it alleviated then I think we could move forward.

Don Ward stated, that’s your first step.

Jay Clawson stated, right and I don’t think you have I mean that’s just something you have to hash out with the drainage board to get the tile working if it can. And if you can get it working then you know and document it over a certain amount of time I’d like to see it if there’s a way that you could do it to develop it. But if it can’t be it can’t be you know, unfortunate but.

Greg Jacobs stated, I just wasn’t wanting to spend…

Jay Clawson stated, right but I don’t think we’re asking you to spend a lot of money on it. I think with the county if it’s down is that…

Charles Mellon stated, all the land that’s draining on it, have to spend on it.

Jay Clawson asked, the people that drain into that have to keep up those tiles don’t they?

Charles Mellon stated, the surveyor could tell you all that.

Jay Clawson stated, I mean isn’t there funds and…

Charles Mellon stated, sure.

President Charles Anderson stated, if it’s a county tile.

Charles Mellon stated, maintenance if it’s a county tile.

Greg Jacobs stated, I don’t think it’s that easy.

Jay Clawson stated, I’m not, I don’t deal with this I’m not on the farm side so I don’t know.

Don Ward stated, well you have to get it opened up and then you have to decide once it’s opened up is it large enough to do what I want to do. And if it ‘s not you’re still stuck.

Greg Jacobs stated, and that’s I guess before I spend five or six thousand dollars. Because I have to I have to hire I’m the one that has to hire the engineering firm to come out and do all that. And so it’s not just as simple as Tony Cane coming out and unplugging a tile there’s…

Jay Clawson stated, exactly.

Don Ward stated, we’re aware of that.

Greg Jacob stated, that’s just and I thought that was the purpose of the primary and secondary approval was before you spent all that money on engineering.

Don Ward stated, well if you got a primary it would have the condition on it that you would have to satisfy everything.

Greg Jacobs stated, that’s yes but t least I can feel good about knowing that the in principal the concept was okay but the other way I’m going into and spending all this and I could come back and correct the problem. But then I’ve done all that and for not because I don’t get an approval. So if…

Jay Clawson stated, your six of one, half dozen the other on thinking that way. Because if you make that a dry property and it’s known in the town as good and dry. We don’t, if you come to us with a project that we like and it will be even better the further down the road once it becomes a dry property for us to say yeah we’re really happy for you to do this. I mean it’s tuff for us to say you know like they did in Florida to drain a swamp and we’ll let you do what ever you want there I mean it’s tuff. Cause your not close to any place to get rid of it.

Greg Jacobs stated, that’s what you’re asking me to do. Drain a swamp and it may…

Jay Clawson stated, and when it was built it probably did a good job but over the years that tile has reached its life cycle…

Greg Jacobs stated, it’s just the difference evidently my interpretation of the ordinance is wrong.

Charles Mellon asked, how big is that tile out there?

Dave Kent stated, I believe it’s a fifteen inch tile on me at the outlet you know it has to be fifteen or bigger.

Charles Mellon stated, it ought to carry a lot of water if it’s working. Right?

Greg Jacob stated, I don’t know what it is. You mean the outlet at Moots Creek?

Attorney Altman stated, and maybe you need a reconstruction of the whole tile.

Dave Kent stated, yeah your right it may be.

Attorney Altman stated, and ask what the drainage board can do for you and working it out.

Greg Jacob stated, I’ll be at the drainage board meeting one day hopefully.

Attorney Altman stated, you know I’m just suggesting that…

Greg Jacob stated, yeah that’s the way I just interpreted the ordinance differently…

Jay Clawson stated, I mean the way it sounds that every, all the farmers all the way down through the ditch need something done to that. Because it’s not draining your properties to the south and like you say you’ve got a lot of hard surface probably from the Demeter area that’s all draining in there which puts a lot of pressure on it.

President Charles Anderson asked, where are all those county tiles going through there or are they private drains or they?

Greg Jacob stated, the problem though Charlie is we got every four you know unless you’re using money out of it and I don’t think anybody’s really up to this year has done anything with it. So once you hit that four-year mark or whatever four years worth of it I guess it is you stop collecting so.

Charles Mellon stated, you spend that much and then you start over.

Greg Jacobs stated, right. And we’ve spent a little bit and you know I’m hoping we’ll spend a little more. But I’ll take that path you know I can’t speak for my…

Jay Clawson stated, the farmers loosing four or five acres a year to ponds because that tile doesn’t work. Eventually they’ll probably sit and think I mean if you can get enough people that works bad that enough farmers decide that it’s worth the money to fix it so everything works.

Dave Kent stated, I don’t think there’s a lot of farmers on it. I think it’s myself, Holdens, and Lehes, Lopps would be the only ones from around there.

Jay Clawson stated, and you’re not loosing enough to make it worth while.

Dave Kent stated, there’s not a lot of…

Charles Mellon stated, the state’s on it and Agro…

Dave Kent stated, yeah and the town’s on it. Yeah so…

President Charles Anderson stated, the town has never drained either.

Dave Kent stated, you know another thing you know to think about it this is on the east edge of Brookston. And I farm twenty-eight acres right east of him as I said you know we look for that to be developed some day. You know and a lot of that water roads roofs is going to go that way so you probably have to and I don’t know what Holden’s will do with their ground. That’s on the, north of me. If that gets developed you know there is going to be a lot of hard surface draining going in there.

Charles Mellon stated, sounds like maybe Brookston Lake you ought to call it and then build around it.

Dave Kent stated, you might have to increase the if you would reconstruct the increase the size of the tile.

Attorney Altman stated, that’s where the drainage board comes in.

****

President Charles Anderson stated, yeah I think we’ve heard enough on that. Do I hear a motion to adjourn?

Charles Anderson made a motion to adjourn.

Jay Clawson seconded the motion.

The meeting adjourned.

Respectfully submitted,

Donald W. Ward, Secretary

White County Area Plan Commission

Diann Weaver, Director

White County Area Plan Commission