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The White County Area Plan Commission met Monday, November 13, 2006, at 7:30 p.m. in the Commissioners’ Meeting Room, Second Floor, County Building, Monticello, Indiana.

Members attending were: Jay Clawson, Gary Barbour, David Rosenbarger, Charles Anderson, Charles Mellon, Donald W. Ward, Dennis Sterrett, Greg Bossaer, and Robert Thomas. Also attending were Attorney Altman and Director Weaver.

Visitors Attending were: Don Pauken, Vicky Criswell, Jerry Rich, Lenore Rich, and Mike Ezra.

The meeting was called to order by President Charles Anderson and roll call was taken. Charles Mellon made a motion to dispense with reading and approve the minutes of the October 16, 2006 meeting. Motion was carried unanimously.

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#920 Mathew J. & Michelle R. McGovern; The property is located on Part of Lots 1 & 2, in Kaugh Naugh Waugh Addition, in Union Township, located at 4888 E. Harbor Court.

Violation: None

Request: They are requesting to rezone from B-2 to L-1.

President Charles Anderson asked, do we have anybody here representing that request? You want to state your name?

Vicky Criswell stated, Vicky Criswell.

Attorney Altman stated, you need to come up to the mic Vicky, please.

President Charles Anderson asked, anybody on the board have any questions about that request?

Vicky Criswell stated, Vicky Criswell is my name.

President Charles Anderson asked, was there a business there before?

Vicky Criswell stated, as far as my knowledge it has always been a residence, cottage yeah.

President Charles Anderson stated, always been a residence.

Director Weaver stated, we’ve tracked this back and found where this property was rezoned and I’ve sent you a copy of the old staff report that was in the file. He was wanting to rezone the remainder of the lot for future business expansion. That’s all I can tell you.

Several people stated, previous owner.

Director Weaver stated, yeah when it was rezoned before.

President Charles Anderson asked, anybody in the audience have any questions about the request at all?

Attorney Altman asked, is this a residential area?

Vicky Criswell stated, correct.

President Charles Anderson asked, has anybody called about this?

Attorney Altman stated, if that is the rest of the neighborhood is residential.

Vicky Criswell stated, some of it is business this way. It’s Beno’s By the Bay across the drive. The rest to the right…

Director Weaver stated, business to the north…

Vicky Criswell stated, to the north yeah…

Director Weaver stated, and to the east is a resort…

Vicky Criswell stated, east is a resort, yeah resort and residential.

Director Weaver stated, its right beside the bridge.

President Charles Anderson asked, the commissioners have any questions about the request? I’d say let’s go ahead and vote.

The results of the vote were as follows: 9 affirmative and 0 negative. This will be presented to the White County Commissioners for their action.

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#921 Jerry A. & Lenore A. Rich Trust; The property is located on .20 & .006 of an acre, Out SW NW 30-28-03, in Monon Township, located at 6703 N. Harris Loop & 3147 E. Camp Drive.

Violation: There has been a duplex and a single family residence put on this property.

Request: They are requesting to rezone from R-2 to R-3.

President Charles Anderson asked, do we have any body here representing that request?

Lenore Rich stated, I’m Lenore Rich.

President Charles Anderson asked, the commissioners have any questions about the request? Let’s do the violation first. There is a duplex and a single family residence on this and they are out of compliance with the zoning ordinance. That’s why she wants to bring it into compliance. Do you have any, who did you purchase the property from?

Lenore Rich stated, we purchased the property November of ninety-five and there were three apartments at that time.

President Charles Anderson asked, okay and then you have been taxed how on those properties since that time? As two properties or as…

Director Weaver stated, as one property but two dwellings, two residences on it.

President Charles Anderson asked, so actually how many residences are there?

Lenore Rich stated, well I have another house on another parcel on the lake. Lake front which is empty because I thought I had the property sold the end of October so we purchased another house and moved out but the buyer found this that it was only zoned…

President Charles Anderson asked, who did you buy the property from?

Lenore Rich stated, Harry Jackman. Who has passed away at this time.

President Charles Anderson stated, Harry Jackman is gone.

Lenore Rich stated, yeah he’s gone he is at the Bedford Cemetery down the street.

President Charles Anderson stated, so I don’t think we can pursue a fine there. And at the time that you bought this did you know that this house was out of compliance?

Lenore Rich stated, no sir. We found out I think it was September twenty sixth. And on September twenty seventh I was in here to file to get it rezoned.

Director Weaver stated, one of the realtors came into the office and was asking what the property was zoned and I believe the violation was discovered at that point.

Lenore Rich stated, the buyer found it and then pulled out now.

President Charles Anderson asked, what do the commissioners propose we do about this?

David Rosenbarger stated, I don’t know that there is anything we can do that far back.

President Charles Anderson stated, it is awful hard to sue an estate over something like that.

Attorney Altman stated, no there is no way you can do that. You think Mr. Jackman was the one that put the three apartments on there or was it somebody before?

Lenore Rich stated, no he built everything that’s on the two parcels there.

Attorney Altman stated, okay then Doc you’re about done.

President Charles Anderson stated, I say let it rest in peace.

Director Weaver stated, I might add too, I had a conversation with the Township Trustee who lives out in this area last week and I thought she was going to get us a letter but I didn’t receive it.

Lenore Rich stated, I have a letter from her.

Director Weaver asked, you did get a letter from her? And she did state that the Rich’s did purchase the property with these units on it.

Attorney Altman stated, we have a letter and it is addresses to Diann Weaver, Area Plan. I’m opening your mail Diann but I think that very briefly it is from the Union Township Trustee Assessor.

Attorney Altman continued to read the letter. (See File.)

Attorney Altman stated, and she just goes and say that they did note other changes so I think it’s the same what we’re getting in the way of evidence, Doc.

President Charles Anderson stated, okay.

Attorney Altman stated, I’d read the rest of it but I think it’s…

President Charles Anderson asked, does any body in the audience have any questions about this violation? The commissioners want to make a motion on that violation?

Jay Clawson stated, I made a motion.

Don Ward stated, he made a motion.

Jay Clawson stated, that we drop it, end it.

President Charles Anderson stated, so moved. So suspended. Okay then we go to the rezoning, rezoning from R-2 to R-3 to bring it into compliance. Commissioners have any questions about that? Anybody in the audience have any questions about that? If not I’d say let’s go ahead and vote.

Jay Clawson asked, with the square footage binging so short are they going to have to have a set back variance?

Director Weaver stated, that’s what I was just going to bring up, the property does not meet the size requirement for this zoning. I don’t know about setbacks. I’m not sure on setbacks; I’ve questioned setbacks they probably do not. And I also wanted to ask the Rich’s about parking. Do you have plenty of parking? Cause when I was up there one of the roads was blocked with a car. So I was kind of concerned about parking.

Lenore Rich stated, well in front of the two story the entrance there’s four spots for parking and then behind the garage apartment there’s two spots for parking.

Director Weaver stated, and the ordinance does require two parking spaces per unit.

Lenore Rich stated, and so there are six.

Attorney Altman stated, it sounds like you are going to have to get a survey and get a variance check on that or you won’t be able to get it sold, cause from what Diann is saying it won’t be…

Lenore Rich stated, well we had been to we had checked into having just the house the front parcels sold with garage which is on the one apartment and then the two story. They said that we could get, we would have to apply for a subdivision.

Director Weaver stated, you would have to subdivide the property.

Lenore Rich stated, subdivide it. Well that was too many thousands of dollars we couldn’t afford that so.

Director Weaver stated, a variance what it does is when you cannot meet the requirements for setbacks or space, is what the variance would be. And it would be to bring it into compliance with the setbacks because they, if it is not meeting the setbacks, and I don’t believe it is meeting the space requirements, I did do that, checked into that.

President Charles Anderson stated, she would have to go through the board of zoning appeals for that.

Director Weaver stated, correct.

President Charles Anderson stated, and you probably have to do that it’s just another meeting in another month.

Jay Clawson asked, can we ask since we are just bringing something into compliance that this not have higher density than what’s already on the property?

Attorney Altman stated, I think that’s almost by definition but yeah without a variance I think there is no way they can…

Jay Clawson asked, they couldn’t change anything or tear buildings down and build anything?

Director Weaver stated, if they were coming in to build one of these buildings now they have to go before the BZA before they would be allowed to build any.

Jay Clawson stated, okay.

President Charles Anderson stated, so you are proposing that no more than two residences…

Jay Clawson stated, well wouldn’t want to see any other you know other than if a building burnt down then they could rebuild that one but not to be able to…

Attorney Altman stated, expand.

Jay Clawson stated, expand to have higher density on that property.

Attorney Altman asked, do you think a commitment is, would be helpful to make sure that didn’t happen or do you think that the limitation of the size takes care of that Diann?

Director Weaver stated, I feel like the size takes care of that.

Jay Clawson stated, and their parking they wouldn’t be able to add more units without having more parking. With checks and balances the system would catch that.

Director Weaver stated, it should the way we do things now it should be caught.

Jay Clawson stated, right.

Attorney Altman stated, so you can get the subdivision possibly, depending on how the votes are. But you still need to get compliant. And the only way you can get compliance is with a variance, sounds like.

Lenore Rich stated, well that was if we were going to split the parcel and sell separately but we were just trying to sell the whole thing now. Which like I said we had sold and then the buyer found this zoning and he backed out of the deal so now we have lost our buyer and…

David Rosenbarger stated, to be in perfect compliance you are going to have to rezone to an R-3 and then get a setback variance.

Attorney Altman stated, I spect you need to.

David Rosenbarger stated, or a space variance anyway.

Director Weaver stated, at least a space variance.

Attorney Altman stated, so you probably need to do…

President Charles Anderson stated, you probably have to do that anyway if you’re going to sell it.

Attorney Altman stated, exactly.

Lenore Rich stated, whatever I have to do I guess.

Attorney Altman stated, I understand. Is it on sewer?

Lenore Rich stated, yes they are all on the sewer.

Attorney Altman stated, okay.

Lenore Rich stated, we were the first ones to put the sewers in.

President Charles Anderson asked, any other questions? I’d say we can go ahead and vote.

The results of the vote were as follows: 9 affirmative and 0 negative. This will be presented to the White County Commissioners for their action.

Attorney Altman stated, and I sure would check immediately about the others because they sometimes don’t approve it when it doesn’t have the size requirements.

Lenore Rich asked, who do I see about that?

Attorney Altman stated, Diann.

Lenore Rich asked, tomorrow?

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President Charles Anderson stated, okay, next on the agenda would be business and before we do that. Mike did you want to say something? Go ahead. And what kind of business do we have? Do we have anything?

Director Weaver stated, I don’t have anything. Do you have anything Jerry?

Mike Ezra stated, well what I’m here for…

President Charles Anderson asked, do you want to state your name Mike? This is all on the record here.

Mike Ezra stated, okay. I’m Mike Ezra. What I’m here for is I’m having a problem with a situation that I’m wanting to, my son is wanting to build a house. We’ve got a one acre lot that he has been living on for about eight years but it has always been in my name. And now then we transferred it over and everything got transferred and everyone said that it was okay but now it comes time to do it and they come in and said it has to be a three acre lot. And you know I’m having trouble understanding because it got transferred and they said it was okay down there. I don’t know what the circumstances were that cause first they said no you can’t do an acre lot and then back room and came back and said yeah you can do an acre lot. Now that, I want to say audit area would it be auditor? And so they went back and looked at something, and I don’t know what they looked at they never said. They never said but they said yeah you’re fine.

President Charles Anderson asked, had you plotted or taken anything off of that property before that?

Mike Ezra stated, I’ve never but my mom and dad did before I got the property. But…

President Charles Anderson asked, has the property changed hands after that?

Mike Ezra stated, Hmm…mm but the only other thing and I’m not sure that I have the facts exactly right but I’ve been told by several different times that in Liberty Township that the ordinance was not in place until ninety three which would override this situation. Where I shouldn’t be in jeopardy of that situation. Now I don’t know I’m agreeing to this stuff I had no idea we were going to get in trouble with this at all.

President Charles Anderson stated, I would just as soon limit to acre lots anyway instead of three acre lots all over the county.

Mike Ezra stated, well I’ve got…

President Charles Anderson asked, the board want to talk…

Mike Ezra stated, I got this ground so I got retirement and then now they want me to give it away. So I mean…

Attorney Altman stated, you can discuss it, we don’t have anything here that we can decide.

Mike Ezra stated, I guess I’m here to find out where I need to go, what I need to do.

President Charles Anderson stated, you are probably going to have to subdivide that.

Director Weaver stated, well let me explain. From my side what we have seen transpired. We had a realtor contact us and questioning whether it could be split out. At that time I actually don’t think I realized until today until I talked to you that it had already been split out and transferred in the auditor’s office. What was questioned to us was is it an illegal split to split out an additional acre. So Leah in my office did researched it and the ordinance even though Liberty Township was brought in under the ordinance in 1993 the ordinance still states that splits the date to go by I think is1973.

Attorney Altman stated, yes.

Director Weaver stated, so it didn’t, we didn’t make any stipulations for Liberty Township that they go by any other date and these splits that were done previously were done prior to 1993, but after 1973.

Dave Scott asked, but were they done by him or somebody else?

Director Weaver stated, well done out of the parent tract and the parent tract is how the property sits as of 1973. It doesn’t matter who owns it.

Dave Scott asked, so it goes by a certain date it becomes a parent tract?

Attorney Altman stated, yeah.

Director Weaver stated, right April 9, 1973.

President Charles Anderson stated, but what if when that property changes hands and what about splits off that property.

Director Weaver stated, it doesn’t matter it goes as the property sat on that date in 1973.

Mike Ezra asked, so any one property can only have one?

Director Weaver stated, right.

Attorney Altman stated, unless they go up to three acres. Then, depending how it’s zoned, they can have how ever many three acre tracts they have in there.

Jay Clawson stated, or make a one lot subdivision.

President Charles Anderson stated, so a real pain.

Attorney Altman stated, or make a one lot subdivision.

Mike Ezra stated, I don’t want to make a subdivision; I just want to have some place for my son to live.

Attorney Altman stated, I understand that we are just trying to give you information.

Mike Ezra, stated, right but I guess the…

President Charles Anderson stated, you can do an agricultural subdivision though.

Attorney Altman stated, and that’s one acre.

President Charles Anderson stated, that’s a one acre.

Attorney Altman stated, yeah you sure could.

Mike Ezra stated, but that’s what I’m looking for an answer, I don’t know what I’m doing here.

President Charles Anderson asked, what would cost him to do that?

Director Weaver stated, through us it would be minimal but what a surveyor would charge I have no idea.

President Charles Anderson asked, does he have to…

Director Weaver stated, he would have to have a subdivision plat drawn up, yes.

Charles Mellon asked, is that where Travis’s house is now?

Mike Ezra stated, right. The trailer house is.

Charles Mellon stated, there have been some houses built there in that same area on one acre lots.

Mike Ezra stated, I know that but…

Charles Mellon stated, all of them.

Mike Ezra stated, no body will give me an answer of why.

Charles Mellon stated, and that’s been in the last four or five years. That’s since ninety three.

Director Weaver stated, well Charlie I would have to research to see if I could give you an answer.

Charles Mellon stated, well I could tell you where they are at. Right along 16.

Mike Ezra stated, well on North too.

Jay Clawson stated, well the only thing we can do really is a one acre Ag subdivision.

Director Weaver asked, or do you realize that you can deed him three acres and still farm part of that acreage?

Attorney Altman stated, rather than just one lot one acre expand it to three acres total…

Mike Ezra stated, but I don’t know how to say this without saying it kind of…

Denny Sterrett stated, it may not always be Travis.

Mike Ezra stated, yeah I guess that’s what I guess I’m saying, he’s married, they don’t get along the best. Something may happen they leave, that ground is gone for me.

Charles Mellon stated, an acre is enough to give away is what you are saying.

Mike Ezra stated, well I mean he has been living on this acre for all of this time what’s the change. You the only thing that has changed is the name that’s on it.

Attorney Altman stated, yes and however that is the significant change that where it kicks in.

Denny Sterrett asked, why do you think the Auditor was confused? Was she using…

Director Weaver stated, well I talked to them and they were under the understanding and I don’t know where this came from but they were under the understanding that…

Dennis Sterrett stated, after ninety three I suppose…

Director Weaver stated, after ninety three for Liberty Township yes. And I don’t know…

Mike Ezra stated, when they surveyed it to start with I asked Jim about that. Jim Milligan…

Director Weaver stated, Jim Milligan had the same thought.

Mike Ezra stated, and he said the same thing. He said well this is after ninety three no problem he said the worst case scenario you would have to get a variance. And I don’t even know what that is all about.

Robert Thomas asked, could you leave the wife’s name off of it?

Attorney Altman stated, the judge puts it on though in matters of the he’s anticipating Bob so.

Mike Ezra stated, I’m looking for…

Attorney Altman stated, I think you have two solutions one is to expand it to three acres, or do the subdivision. And Milligan can give you an answer…

President Charles Anderson stated, and since he deeded it off and he was wrong I would try to get a discount on doing a survey on it.

Mike Ezra stated, well he might do that I don’t know.

Denny Sterrett asked, did he already do the survey and the plat?

Mike Ezra stated, yeah. So I mean everything was done until it came time to permit.

Dennis Sterrett stated, so all he’d have to do is make a bigger plat saying Ezra Sub number one or something.

Mike Ezra stated, I don’t know I mean…

Dennis Sterrett stated, and then it would have to come before this board again.

Mike Ezra stated, okay and…

President Charles Anderson stated, I think that is want you are going to have to do if you want to keep to one acre.

Mike Ezra stated, okay so how long is…

President Charles Anderson stated, a month.

Director Weaver you, well you are actually looking at least sixty days probably.

Mike Ezra stated, and see he’s been trying to get this and they have already signed the contract for the house and he’s been trying to get this done and he didn’t realize he was going to have trouble with his permit cause we waited on Jim for a month to get this done.

Attorney Altman stated, the structure can be if you increase it to three acres. Have a contract that he is going to sell you back that two acres when you get your subdivision approved and then you are back to the one acre.

President Charles Anderson stated, take the wife out for dinner…

Attorney Altman stated, well they both sign it they are all both obliged okay in other words if they both the wife and the husband signs and they are hooked on and you could do that. And you get your ground back after the subdivision is approved. And they can get their building permit tomorrow morning. Assuming you get your…

Director Weaver stated, well…

Mike Ezra stated, well I gotta get that…

Attorney Altman stated, you have got to get your ground together right.

Mike Ezra stated, okay I’m following you okay. But you are assaying that after that is done I can have my ground back?

Director Weaver stated, if you go through a subdivision.

President Charles Anderson stated, if get it on contract.

Attorney Altman stated, if you go through a subdivision.

Mike Ezra stated, cause that is legal to do it in a one acre lot.

Several people said yes.

Mike Ezra stated, okay. And you can explain more detail to me if I come in?

Director Weaver stated, I can.

Attorney Altman stated, and I’d be glad to talk more about it from a legal but it is fairly simple.

Mike Ezra stated, okay. Well that’s what we need to get started on then. Okay well that’s what I wanted and I apologize, you know I called Jim I asked him when the meeting was. He says well it’s today. So that is why I’m here today and it was, I didn’t mean to do it quite like that so. But thank you.

President Charles Anderson asked, any other business?

Director Weaver stated, well I might mention one thing yeah. I almost forgot. Gary and I have kind of been talking about doing a Christmas party this year and I was kind of wondering when a good time. He and I had kind of discussed maybe going to Solly’s like on a Saturday afternoon. And I was kind looking at maybe the sixteenth. Does that sound like something maybe everybody would want to do? It would be for both boards, the girls in the office, spouses everybody pay for their own. It would just be a group get together to celebrate the Christmas season.

Robert Thomas stated, I’ll get off cheap then I don’t have a spouse.

Director Weaver asked, would anybody be interested in doing that? If so I can if that date sounds like it would be good I can check into seeing if we can get in.

President Charles Anderson stated, how about give us some time to call in to make reservations or something like that to your office.

Jay Clawson asked, about what time would you want to do this?

Director Weaver asked, well what time would you want to do this? You tell me.

David Rosenbarger stated, Diann that doesn’t work for me but…

Director Weaver stated, well we can do it another time.

David Rosenbarger stated, no that’s fine the one thing I’d say on Solly’s if you do it in the evening it would be really difficult, you would have to do it early.

Director Weaver stated, that’s kind of why we thought maybe earlier and that way too if people had plans in the evening then they would still be free to go. We know it’s a busy season but we thought it would be fun to do something like this.

Jay Clawson stated, it sounds like fun.

Attorney Altman stated, okay why don’t we just if want to do it, get a hold of Diann and Diann maybe even call and see…

Director Weaver stated, I will call Solly’s tomorrow.

President Charles Anderson asked, is there any business out there we need to discuss, anybody have any questions or anything? Do I have a motion to adjourn?

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The meeting adjourned.

Respectfully submitted,

Donald W. Ward, Secretary

White County Area Plan Commission

Diann Weaver, Director

White County Area Plan Commission