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The White County Area Plan Commission met Monday, December 11, 2006, at 7:30 p.m. in the Commissioners’ Meeting Room, Second Floor, County Building, Monticello, Indiana.

Members attending were: Jay Clawson, Gary Barbour, David Rosenbarger, Charles Anderson, Charles Mellon, Donald W. Ward, Dennis Sterrett, Greg Bossaer, Robert Thomas, and David Scott. Also attending were Attorney Altman and Director Weaver.

Visitors attending were: Mary Whitman Ellis, Jim Ellis, ???, Greg E. Johnston. Also attending but not signed in were: Jack Custer, Jim Kragh, Howard Currier, John Knochel, Becky Kragh, and Robert Andreatta.

The meeting was called to order by President Charles Anderson and roll call was taken. Don Ward made a motion to dispense with reading and approve the minutes of the November 13, 2006 meeting. Motion was seconded by Charles Mellon and carried unanimously.


# 922 Gregory E. Johnston; The property is located on 1.377 acres, Out W NE 32-28-3 in Monon Township, located at 5924 N. Lake Road 51 W.

Violation: None

Request: They are requesting to rezone from B-2, General Business to R-2, One and Two Family Residence.

President Charles Anderson asked, do we have anyone here representing this request? Do the Commissioners have any questions? Does anyone in the audience have any questions at?

Attorney Altman asked, this isn’t being used as a B-2 zoning now?

Greg Johnston stated, no, it has been a residence as long as I can remember.

President Charles Anderson asked, do any of the commissioners have any questions?

Don Ward asked, are they mobile homes?

Director Weaver stated, one has been removed and there is one out there now.

Greg Johnston stated, one is pretty much torn down and the other one is uninhabitable. I’m removing it. Pretty much everything on the property was pretty much uninhabitable.

President Charles Anderson stated, if there are no more questions, I say we go ahead and vote.

Without further discussion the board voted.

The Board finds the following:

The results of the vote were as follows: 9 affirmative and 1 abstention. This will be presented to the White County Commissioners for their action.


#309 Tippecanoe Country Club, Inc.; Requesting approval of a 3 lot subdivision to be known as Tippecanoe Country Club Fairways Addition #2, on .910 of an acre, Part of Tract “C” in Tippecanoe Country Club Fairways Addition. The property is located in Union Township, North of Monticello on Lakeshore Drive.

President Charles Anderson asked, is there anyone here representing this request?

Jack Custer stated, I’m Jack Custer, I’m on the board.

President Charles Anderson asked, do the commissioners have any questions about the request?

Is there anybody in the audience that has any questions? Come forward and state your names.

Jim Kragh stated, I’m Jim Kragh and I live right across the street from this property. I just wanted to bring up a couple of concerns that I have before you vote on how it is to be zoned. Probably don’t realize…

President Charles Anderson stated, it is already zoned, what we are doing is a subdivision.

Jim Kragh stated, okay.

Attorney Altman stated, that is a very different matter. If they qualify, in other words, if there are no variances or other wise and it meets the standards, we have no latitude of not approving it. I don’t want to shut you off and we do want to hear what you have to say. At least understand the board only has one question and it is does it meet.

President Charles Anderson stated, well…

Jim Kragh stated, okay. There are concerns that I have. I’ve lived there for 20 years and our leach systems have been over on that property for the 20 years that I have been there. Probably 40 plus years for 3 to 5 leach systems. Who knows what has been pumped over there in that ground for 40 plus years. That is one concern I have. If someone builds on that property are they going to be able to sink a well through that those old leach systems? Those were just abandoned this spring. Who knows what kind of toxins have been pumped over on those years for 40 plus years. The other concern I have, it is in bounds it is in play of the golf course and there are a number of golf balls that land on that property. Jack can attest to that. It comes into play and if someone builds on that property and someone get hit by a golf ball where is the liability stand.

President Charles Anderson asked, your leach beds were not on our own properties?

Jim Kragh stated, no.

President Charles Anderson asked, why weren’t they on your own property?

Jim Kragh stated, it was the way it was set up when I bought the house. The fellow developed the land back in the 1960’s he had his leach system over there and I know of 3 homes and maybe 5 that have had their leach systems over there. We had permission from the Country club over the years to repair if need be as long as we restored the grass. I just thought those are concerns that should be addressed before this comes to a conclusion.

President Charles Anderson asked, do you have someone else with a question? Come forward and state your name.

Howard Currier stated, I’m Howard Currier and I live right across the street. I live next to Jim and Becky actually. We moved in 4 months ago and one of the things that really impressed me was the view and you know we fell in love with it so to speak. I just would like for someone to be able to tell me that there would be no building on that property. That is really and you can say you are going to sell it to Joe. Joe may say I’m not going to build on there or anything else. What happens when Joe dies and his son or daughter gets that property and says you know what, I want to get rid of it and build on it? So I would like an answer from someone and hope it will be in the minutes.

President Charles Anderson stated, we can’t address that much of that right here. That is not, that is your concern, but we can’t address that here. We can ask them what they plan on doing with the property.

Jack Custer stated, the stipulations are it is a 3 lot subdivision and we are selling off the lots, 1, 2, and 3 and I can’t say if someone is going to build on them or not. We are hoping they won’t build on them, but I can’t say that.

Don Ward stated, there is really no reason to buy them then.

President Charles Anderson stated, okay anybody else?

Howard Currier stated, well one reason you would buy it, is so no one builds on it.

Don Ward stated, well that might happen.

Howard Currier stated, that may happen, that is what I’m saying. I’m saying that somewhere down the road if somebody else takes over, what happens.

President Charles Anderson stated, they can do what ever they want with it.

Don Ward stated, we have no control over that. Its there property and they can do whatever they want.

John Knochel stated, I’m John Knochel and I live on lot 46 over at the club and my lot is closer to the end place of the course than what these lots would be. What if someone was going to get hit with a golf ball. I have no concerns and I have lived there for 4 years. I feel that these lots are further away.

President Charles Anderson asked, where is your leach bed?

John Knochel stated, my leach bed is in and then I had to take it out. That is the concern I would address.

President Charles Anderson stated, Jack to you want to address the leach bed problem.

Jack Custer stated, well the leach bed has been there for years and of course the leach beds are gone because of the new sewer system.

President Charles Anderson stated, the leach beds are still there, but as far as the leach water it is not going there.

Jack Custer stated, it isn’t going to do anything.

President Charles Anderson asked, do the commissioners have any questions about this?

David Rosenbarger stated, I’m trying to figure out where it is? I see the 3 lot subdivision here.

Director Weaver stated, your staff report doesn’t show it, does it.

David Rosenbarger stated, no.

Director Weaver stated, if you look at your staff report and see Lake Rd 15 W.

(He is showing him on the map where the lots are located.)

Jay Clawson asked, was there an exception granted from the Drainage board?

Dennis Sterrett stated, yes. There is a letter in there.

David Scott asked, are these lots 90’ wide? What we are looking at here, is this building area?

Director Weaver stated, they are 90’ deep.

David Scott stated, they are 90’ deep.

Director Weaver stated, they are 132’ wide.

David Scott stated, so the building area would be 28’.

David Rosenbarger stated, 28’ wide is all.

David Scott stated, that is the only problem I see with it they are going to be in here for setback variances on the lot.

President Charles Anderson stated, the only thing I see is…

Becky Kragh stated, Becky Kragh. About the golf balls where Knochel was talking about. His house would be out of bounds, where these lots are that is not out of bounds, that is the golf course. Living there and I have been hit in my yard that is across the street. I have been hit twice with a golf ball.

President Charles Anderson stated, so do the commissioners have anything questions about this request? The only way we could turn this down is a public health type of a problem, whether it is being hit by golf balls or leach beds. Does anybody on the commissioners want to address that?

Jay Clawson asked, is there any kind of house that will fit in a 28’ right of way?

Dennis Sterrett stated, mine is 28’.

President Charles Anderson asked, roof line does that go over the 28’?

David Scott stated, I don’t know what kind of houses are in there, but if they want to build according to the neighborhood.

David Rosenbarger asked, are there any conveyances on that?

President Charles Anderson stated, there would be no conveyances because it is a new subdivision.

Jack Custer stated, the conveyances states 1300’ is the minimum.

David Rosenbarger stated, 1200’.

Jack Custer stated, it is 1200’.

David Rosenbarger asked, what is the square footage of these lots?

Don Ward stated, you’ve got 38’ to build on so you could have a porch, garage long enough to get your car in.

Several talking at once going over the subdivision plat.

President Charles Anderson asked, would you live there Jack?

Jack Custer stated, personally, no I wouldn’t build there, but you never know someone might want to.

President Charles Anderson stated, we barely have enough room to put houses in there. We’ve got a problem whether we don’t know any leach contaminant in there. What kind of problem that would bring about. I’d like to find out if these are safe to build on. I would think the lots would have to be bigger than what they are as far as width of the lot.

Don Ward stated, the depth.

Dennis Sterrett stated, it looks like they give up 10’ for the roadway.

Jack Custer stated, well why don’t we table this and check and I don’t know what as far as the contamination of the soil.

President Charles Anderson stated, you can talk to the County Health, the County Health is who you would talk to.

Jack Custer stated, yes.

President Charles Anderson stated, I think we have a problem with the depth of the lot too. You need at least 10’ more feet.

Attorney Altman stated, like Dave said they are going to come in here and want a variance to put anything in there consistent with the properties on the opposite side of the road.

President Charles Anderson stated, as far as the gold balls I don’t think we can control that.

Jack Custer stated, I don’t think that is a concern.

Attorney Altman stated, he has asked to table it to address your concerns.

Don Ward stated, you really want a nice home in there, if people build in there you want a nice home and you can’t do that on 28’ there isn’t room enough for any porch or, another 10’ would be a big help and your over hangs. A nice home has at least a 1’.

President Charles Anderson asked, are these leach beds over there are they plotted somewhere?

Jack Custer stated, no it was one of those deals we give you permission to put a leach bed over there and did whatever they needed to do. .

Jim Kragh stated, I know where my leach bed. My leach bed actually covered more than the lot that they were going to sell. I think my neighbors did on the south side.

President Charles Anderson stated, you mean the lot directly across from you.

Jim Kragh stated, yes. I think I had distribution box and I think 6 fingers that went out.

President Charles Anderson stated, so everything, the gravel the distribution box and everything is still there.

Jim Kragh stated, still there, just abandoned when we put our grinders up. We used them up until this spring. If you want you can go out there and look. There is one area of soil right at the end of my finger system, I considered dead ground. Nothing but a fungus has been out there for the 20 years I have been out there. I know all 3 of these leach systems are at leas 40 plus years old.

Don Ward stated, the important thing is whether the septic system is filled. If they didn’t then it should be okay.

Several are talking at once.

Jim Kragh stated, to bring up an old subject here, I really think golf balls are a concern landing on that lot.

President Charles Anderson stated, it is a concern, but it is something I don’t think we can address here.

Jim Kragh stated, it is a liability for someone. My wife said she was hit twice while mowing the yard. It is a landing zone for golf balls. I think Jack would attest to that. He is a golfer. It is 230’ off of the tee and it is in play.

President Charles Anderson stated, okay. So you want to table this?

Jack Custer stated, yes, we will table it.

Attorney Altman stated, this will be tabled until January 8.


#310 Mary Whitman; Requesting approval of a 3 lot subdivision to be known as Paradise Valley, containing 1.377 acres, part of Lot 5 in Boessel Subdivision No. 2. The property is located in Monon Township, East of Monon at 6464 N. Bedford Bay Court.

President Charles Anderson asked, is someone here representing this request?

Mary Whitman stated, Mary Whitman.

President Charles Anderson stated, we have seen this before and we needed to.

Attorney Altman stated, yes.

Director Weaver stated, it came as a rezoning.

President Charles Anderson stated, we have a problem with the plat we need to talk about. Do any of the Commissioners have any questions about this request?

David Rosenbarger stated, the 30’, is that wide enough to go back to the lot line?

Don Ward stated, we ask for 50’.

David Rosenbarger stated, yes, I thought we asked for 50’.

Attorney Altman stated, we have asked for 50’ and done so consistently. Obviously the thought there is fire trucks take quite a bit of swing to get in there. Ambulances aren’t small anymore.

President Charles Anderson stated, they are fit to fit in there either.

Attorney Altman stated, the road right of way at the, on Bedford Bay is 50’. They have complied with that. They don’t have the other.

Mary Whitman stated, what do you mean the other 50’ on what?

Attorney Altman stated, 50’ access to lot number 1, is what he is asking for.

Mary Whitman stated, hypothetically I don’t divided it off, I have the same problem. Hypothetically if I don’t subdivide it off and it burns, they already said they wouldn’t let me rebuild it. A fire truck did get down there, if I don’t subdivide it I still have the same problem, same thing with an ambulance. If I don’t do anything I still have the same driveway.

Attorney Altman stated, you have the possibility of 50’ across there.

Mary Whitman stated, not really, up there on that lot there is no way an ambulance or a fire truck is going to fall over that hill to go down to lot 1, that is a 5’ drop. That is not straight land to go straight down. They can’t go.

President Charles Anderson stated, you don’t need a 50’ driveway all you need is the 50’ access for the subdivision is what you need. The driveway doesn’t have to be 50’ wide the access has to be 50’ wide and that is in the subdivision ordinance. Even if you couldn’t use all 50’ you still got.

Mary Whitman stated, so you are saying 50’ from this building to what.

David Rosenbarger stated, from lot 2 and lot 3.

Jay Clawson stated, right. Your access easement off of Bedford Bay.

Mary Whitman stated, off the road. So can the road to the modular home that I’m wanting to put it, can it be 50’.

President Charles Anderson stated, it has to be 50’ wide going through there.

Don Ward stated, where you have red there, instead of 30’ you have 50’ so you can go North 20’ more with the line.

Dennis Sterrett stated, or south.

Mary Whitman stated, okay. So that would have to come 20’ more.

President Charles Anderson stated, you can build your road or the road can stay the size it is. To comply with the subdivision it actually has to be that way. Especially if you sell that or you wanted to dedicate it back to the county they need that much right of way. We’ve had too much problem with small roads in subdivisions around the lakes. We are trying to get away from that. You don’t have to build a 50’ road you just have to dedicate that ground to the right of way. Even if they fall off the cliff it doesn’t matter.

Mary Whitman stated, okay, I guess why I’m confused is that if right now as it stands whether he goes up there or not this will never be a road, whether it is subdivided or not.

President Charles Anderson stated, some day you may not own that, it won’t’ be a road then.

Mary Whitman stated, no I don’t plan on doing anything with it. I could, but I...

President Charles Anderson stated, so it is a part of the lot then.

Mary Whitman stated, it is a part of the lot.

President Charles Anderson asked, how do you access it?

Mary Whitman stated, they said that is what I needed to do in order to subdivide it. I never had that in there in the first place.

President Charles Anderson asked, how do you access it?

Mary Whitman stated right here, this is the road right here. You come in the road and down and around.

Dennis Sterrett stated, that is being subdivided into lot 2.

Mary Whitman stated, correct and that is why this road they say if I sell it, then this piece here, then we would have to exit here. Which I understand this is not a problem to move it. I do understand the way you are saying it.

President Charles Anderson stated, okay, then if you move it whether you can go in or not for our subdivision you have to have 50’ of right of way through there. You don’t have to have 50’ road.

David Rosenbarger stated, we aren’t telling you to put a road there. You have to have a 50’ access.

Mary Whitman stated, oh okay. There would be room on this side of the lot, even on the lot 3.

President Charles Anderson stated, as far as you putting, you would have to dedicate.

Mary Whitman stated, well I don’t want anything up there that is why I rezoned it to R-2 because I don’t want anything up there.

President Charles Anderson stated, if you want to build on that, it would clear that building lot.

Don Ward stated, you don’t want to make lot 3 smaller.

President Charles Anderson stated, lot 2 you would still have about as much building space on lot 2 if you took the 20’ off of that side.

Mary Whitman stated, so I would still be able to put the modular on lot 2 if I made it smaller. Is that what you are saying?

President Charles Anderson stated, if it is within the setbacks.

Director Weaver stated, I don’t know because I don’t know what size modular she is talking.

Mary Whitman stated, 28’

Don Ward stated, well right now there is 95’ of building in the land.

Director Weaver stated, does the board realize that this is a part of the lot.

Don Ward stated, the lot is 35’ x 95’.

President Charles Anderson asked, what part of the lot?

Director Weaver stated, what you are telling her needs to be 50’ is a part of lot 1, it is not dedicated as a road.

President Charles Anderson stated, it is not dedicated as an actual road.

Director Weaver stated, it is a part of lot1. I just want the board to understand that. It is a part of the lot.

Don Ward stated, we had this before, leave a part of the lot in the back when we have had that situation 50’ at the road.

Director Weaver stated, I’m just trying to make sure that everybody is on the same page.

Attorney Altman stated, I think they are.

David Rosenbarger stated, the day I’m looking at is when lot 1, 2, and 3 is sold.

Jay Clawson stated, she’s got a real wide building area on lot 2.

Director Weaver stated, I understand what the board is saying; I just wanted to make sure that all understand.

Mary Whitman stated, Jim how big is the modular? It is 28’.

Jim Ellis stated, Jim Ellis. The modular is 48’ long. There is plenty of room there.

Don Ward stated, you have 95’ of land.

Jim Ellis stated, but the problem, this was just done this extra road put in there in case of.

Mary Whitman stated, it would be a stinker if you could not get down that road.

Jim Ellis stated, if there isn’t another road here for access, it has to be done for looks and legal purpose, I don’t know why. My property once she gives it to me in my deed, it will be all willed to my son and her in my death. That is why I want to get out of Lake County.

Mary Whitman stated, so what we did is we did it this way because Mr. Milligan suggested it that if something were to ever happen and we would need to sell it or want to sell it, it would be more sellable to have lake front and that is why that is coming back here.

Jim Ellis stated, that is why it is coming this way for more access.

Mary Whitman stated, so this way he will have 90’ of lake access with lot 2. Lot 1 is as it is. It already says it was granted a setback variance. Lot 2 he is just going to retire up there with a modular. Lot 3 I don’t want to build on that at all because it is all land pine trees. I don’t want it changed.

President Charles Anderson stated, so you can go either way with the extra 20’.

Mary Whitman stated, sure.

Jay Clawson stated, well not really, because that will make lot 3 non-buildable.

Mary Whitman stated, yeah, so.

Jim Ellis stated, well it is better off going on my lot 2 and taking 10’.

Jay Clawson stated, 20’ there and then you still have plenty of building space. Then you will meet the setbacks.

President Charles Anderson stated, all that is 20’ on the paper, your road can be whatever.

Mary Whitman stated, whatever.

David Rosenbarger stated, you just need 50’ on the map.

Jim Ellis stated, this is all going to be one anyway.

David Rosenbarger stated, but someday, the idea behind a subdivision someday they are all available for sale.

Jim Ellis stated, I realize this.

Mary Whitman stated, but I’m not here and you aren’t here.

Jay Clawson stated, 3 different people could own all 3 lots and the 3 houses or 3 structures in the back will have access and that way someone else gets it and says you can’t use the driveway across there, they will enough room to build a road and put utilities.

Mary Whitman stated, exactly. I do understand.

Jay Clawson stated, that is the main thing.

Jim Ellis stated, it would be real simple for me just to get a mobile home to put on there. It would be simple, I don’t want that I want a nice house.

Jay Clawson stated, you have…

David Rosenbarger stated, a modular home is only 48’ long and you still have plenty of room.

Mary Whitman stated, it has been a trailer park and I don’t want that, I want it to look like a subdivision.

Jim Ellis stated, when we have been fishing here, all the people have come up to us and says what a job my son has done to this property. He is improving it everyday. It wasn’t going back to the junk it was.

President Charles Anderson stated, the only other thing…

Attorney Altman stated, lot 1 doesn’t have setback lines at all.

Mary Whitman stated, well what does that mean when it says on this paper it says that, the house on lot 1 was granted a setback variance.

Attorney Altman stated, it means it can stay there, but you’ve got to put the setback lines on the lot.

David Rosenbarger stated, on the lot itself.

Attorney Altman stated, on the lot itself.

David Rosenbarger stated, just like the dotted lines.

Mary Whitman asked, why wasn’t that done before me? I mean I don’t understand why that wasn’t done way before me.

Jay Clawson stated, Jim should have done it when he drew it.

Director Weaver stated, it was done before.

Jay Clawson stated, see how you have the dotted lines here, this needs to be done the same way.

Dennis Sterrett stated, there is a note up under the zoning.

Attorney Altman stated, I know, but that means if you look where that lot line and the elevation. It’s the dotted line up there near the BSL, there is no place to build on this lot.

Dennis Sterrett stated, it’s the whole lot.

Mary Whitman stated are you talking about lot 1. You wouldn’t want to build on that one anymore. First of all you can’t build on that one any more because again I hate to go back to it, but it keeps being brought up to me that if this house burns or floods out which I can’t see that either, but if it burns I can not rebuild there. I’m told that everyday that I can not build on lot 1.

President Charles Anderson asked, are you in the floodway?

Mary Whitman stated, so therefore my thought was to put a modular up there with him, if I were to burn down to the ground, then I could put a little home on lot 3 in the middle of the pines tress I suppose.

David Rosenbarger asked, why are you told you can’t, what is the reason you can’t build on lot 1?

Mary Whitman stated, please tell me, I don’t know.

David Rosenbarger stated, I’m asking you.

Several are talking at once. Someone stated, we don’t know.

President Charles Anderson stated, it is probably the flood level, plain.

Don Ward stated, well your setback is clear back here and there is nothing left but the road.

Mary Whitman stated, see I don’t understand that when you talk to the insurance company and even my husband contractors says as long as there is one wall standing according to the insurance company they make you put that house back together. Now if it is so hot that the foundation on that home should crack then that is a whole different ball game. They can tell you to put that house someplace else because you are not rebuilding it.

Director Weaver stated, okay even if the insurance company tells you to rebuild if there is only one wall standing you are still going to have to go back through the DNR and you still have to meet the Area Plan Standards and building codes.

Mary Whitman stated, exactly.

Director Weaver stated, the flood area is the concern and is the reason that building line is clear back towards the road. It is because of the elevation of the land. The home built in there has to have the lowest floor elevation has to be 654’ that 654’ elevation mark is clear back where you are putting the other two lots. So in order to build at the elevation my question all along is if we are creating an un-buildable lot.

Attorney Altman stated, an un-improvable lot.

Mary Whitman asked, which one is un-improvable?

President Charles Anderson stated, lot 1.

Mary Whitman asked, okay if it burns down where do I go? Aren’t I better off to go to lot 2?

President Charles Anderson stated, yes.

Director Weaver stated, but can we make it an un-buildable lot. That is my question all along. Can we create an un-buildable lot.

Mary Whitman stated, it is already there.

Don Ward stated, if the buildings burned down on lot 1, you can always get a couple feet of fill and get yourself above 652’ and then you have a building lot.

Attorney Altman stated, that is why you want the building lot setbacks on there. So you can do what Mr. Ward is talking about fill it so it is above and then you have it.

Mary Whitman stated, I’m not being rude. Do you know how hard that is going to be for me to go to Jim Milligan and ask him to do this one more time again.

Director Weaver stated, I have requested these setbacks already and I did not get them.

Mary Whitman stated, I’m sure you have. I don’t know how you want me to do that. I mean I have taken I have lost 3 weeks day after day of vacation time in Mr. Milligan’s office. I even had appointments and he wasn’t there. I’ve driven down here 90 miles and he isn’t there. So I don’t know how you want me to do that.

Don Ward stated, we need to have that done for the final plat, this is a primary plat. We know where it is and it shows on there. He just has to note that is the setback line.

Someone asked, how does she know where to put the setback?

Don Ward stated, 654.

???, yeah but there is no 654 there.

Several answered, yes there is.

Attorney Altman stated, it says it is an un-buildable lot.

David Rosenbarger stated, until they put 2’ of fill.

Mary Whitman asked, okay 2’ of fill where?

David Rosenbarger stated, on lot 1.

Don Ward stated, all over lot 1.

Mary Whitman stated, all around it.

Several answered to where you want to build.

Director Weaver stated, you have to get approval from the DNR to put that fill in.

Mary Whitman stated, well I understand. You are saying that if I build that up 2’ I’m out of the flood zone.

Director Weaver stated, that is a DNR question.

Dennis Sterrett stated, I don’t think you can put your fill where those cross hatch area are. You wont be able to put your fill in the floodway is.

Mary Whitman stated, I can live with that.

Attorney Altman stated, you have to get approval from the DNR.

Mary Whitman stated, I would just go out and do it, I’m not in trouble. I mean right now I don’t need to do that.

Attorney Altman stated, actually I guess what I’m trying to suggest and what Diann is trying to suggest all along is that you get your 50’ and then you have the building area setback put in there and then conditions would be that they have to be elevated to the 654 to ever build on it.

Mary Whitman stated, to build on it, not to subdivide it. Okay, again I understand about the 50’, how do you want me to do this with Mr. Milligan when he doesn’t return my calls?

Director Weaver stated, he is going to have to do it for you to get approval. He has to do it for you to a second approval.

Mary Whitman stated, this man wants to be in before he dies before he is 90. I’m not going to get it, I’m telling you I’ve been on the phone with him everyday for a month.

Director Weaver stated, I know.

Mary Whitman stated, I said to the young man I the office please tell him to call me at 3:00 today. Okay he will be in and it is now quarter after 8:00.

President Charles Anderson stated, the only other thing is you could find another surveyor to redo it and it is going to cost you a bunch more money to do that. We have no control over what he does.

Mary Whitman stated so in other words this can not be approved until he moves that line over.

President Charles Anderson stated, no we can approve this.

David Rosenbarger stated, we can give you primary

Jay Clawson stated, we can give you primary, but it has to go through two steps. It is not good enough to give you secondary approval right now.

President Charles Anderson asked, can we give her secondary contingent that she gets that done?

Director Weaver stated, I didn’t receive the secondary plat in time and have not viewed it.

President Charles Anderson stated, so the secondary hasn’t even come to you yet.

Director Weaver stated, I do have it, but I have not had a chance to..

President Charles Anderson asked, does it have the setback lines on it?

Director Weaver stated, no.

David Rosenbarger stated, so it isn’t right.

Dennis Sterrett stated, it looks to me like the note up here covers the setbacks.

President Charles Anderson asked, do you thin that would cover the setbacks?

Dennis Sterrett stated, that is what we are asking her to do is to put them at 654’.

Director Weaver stated, but she could put that 654 on any elevation.

Attorney Altman stated, he could technically raise it to 654’.

Dennis Sterrett stated, I don’t think he could.

Attorney Altman stated, I don’t think this covers it.

Dennis Sterrett stated, you need a minimum on here.

Attorney Altman stated, yes, that is all I’m saying, I think he has plenty of room in there to put the setback area in there and he just hasn’t done it and I think you are right the copy up here saying it has to be at the 654’ covers what we are worried about. I think we can possibly give them primary approval at least subject to them getting the 50’ access and the building setback in lot 1.

Mary Whitman stated, so if I get a hold of Mr. Milligan, I’ve got to understand this. If I get a hold of Mr. Milligan he gives me the 50’ setback and then I get the variance lines put in, what else would stop this from being subdivided. What do you need to have this subdivided so he, he is getting ready to loose money that he has put down on this home. I mean the home is ordered. They are saying he is going to loose his money.

Don Ward stated, all he has to do on the 654 contour is just list it as the setback line. The lake setback line and move this line over 20’ and he has a mistake up here and that is about it.

Mary Whitman stated, so if I can get him to correct that then how do we get to the next step to be able to say we are subdivided now we need a building permit. How do I get to that next step.

Director Weaver stated, I have a question she is going to have improvements put in for sewer at least a minimum of…

Mary Whitman stated, DAW came out and I submitted all of that.

Director Weaver stated, are we going to need a letter of credit for that.

Mary Whitman stated, letter of credit, what does that mean for the sewer. I gave that information to the girl in the office, Leah. I gave here the bill from DAW contractors for $650 they were going to run the.

Director Weaver stated, I’ve never seen anything. Jerry is there one I the file.

Attorney Altman stated, sewer connection permit. I’ve got this.

Director Weaver asked, are the sewer lines in?

Mary Whitman stated, no, I’m waiting until tonight, I didn’t want to do it until, but I have the letter and I gave it to Leah. It was $650.

President Charles Anderson stated, is that how much it will cost.

Mary Whitman stated, no it is an actual bill but he came to the home and he is going to run the laterals. It was $650 and light house has the approval for the well. They are putting in the well.

I gave her 12 copies of the secondary plat and signed the drainage approval so all of that should have been.

Director Weaver stated, the secondary plat we don’t get 12 copies of it.

Mary Whitman stated, well I gave her 12 copies of something. I filed the secondary whatever and I handed it all to her. It had DAW contractor on it.

Director Weaver stated, what I’m referring to is the cost to put, when a subdivision is done we require a letter of credit for any improvements that have to be done. That is what I’m asking the board if they want that.

Mary Whitman stated wait a minute a line of credit is in regards to the modular, because he is paying cash for it.

Director Weaver stated, no, the letter of credit if regarding the improvements.

Several are talking at once.

Don Ward stated, once you subdivide don’t you have to pay the sewer district for each lot.

Mary Whitman stated, no, they according to DAW contractors he said he would tie right into the grinder that we have. That is what the fee is to run laterals right to the grinder, even though he will pay a grinder fee of $55. So do I, we would share the same grinder. You have to understand one time there and I think there is still 36 we are trying to find out which one it is which all of those trailers up there. We have all these sewer caps up there, so I don’t want to deal with the grinder or sewer up on lot 3, I don’t.

Don Ward stated, I don’t know, I just thought you had to pay for each lot.

Mary Whitman stated, no he would be tying into my grinder. That is one of our big concerns and they said no. That is the information that I had given Leah to show he had inquired he had gone to the property and it was $650 to tie into us. I handed her all of that and I went over it and she asked you and you said yes I have everything. This is why I’m frustrated.

President Charles Anderson stated, I think we need to go ahead with conditions.

Mary Whitman asked, how long after I get the lines and everything; how longs does it take to get final approval?

President Charles Anderson stated, she has to come back to next months meeting.

Mary Whitman stated, if I have all of that I can’t have final approval until next month.

Director Weaver stated, I have not had time to, Jim did not get the secondary plat to me on time and I have not had time to review that plat at all.

Mary Whitman asked, when is that meeting?

Director Weaver stated, January 8.

Robert Andreatta stated, I have a question. I live down the road, I’m good friends with Marion Byron. This little thing over lot 1 what does that have to do with lot 2? With the variances and all of that and setbacks?

David Rosenbarger stated, because all three are tied together with a subdivision. It is a package deal. We are not just doing one lot, we are going with a 3 lot subdivision, so everything has to tie in.

Robert Andreatta stated, okay I have been involved in this from the very start and I’ve seen a whole lot of stuff. White County has a surveyor’s office over here and they take care of all of this stuff too.

Attorney Altman stated, no.

Director Weaver stated, no.

Robert Andreatta stated, well it says surveyor.

Director Weaver stated, no.

Attorney Altman stated, they call me a lawyer and I don’t take care of everything in White County.

Robert Andreatta stated, if I come in to White County and they tell me to go to the surveyor’s office, I’ll go to the surveyor’s office. You mean to tell me that this little thing this technicality with Milligan won’t do. I’m just as frustrated as her because I’ve been on the phone trying to get a hold of Milligan myself and trying to take care of some business of my own. This seems this could be taken care of so simple. Where is another surveyor, who is another credited surveyor in White County?

Jay Clawson stated, Bob Gross.

Director Weaver stated, it doesn’t have to be a surveyor from White County.

Robert Andreatta stated, oh it doesn’t have to be a surveyor from White County.

Jay Clawson stated, it can be from any one, just has to meet our..

Robert Andreatta stated, if he is a register surveyor for Indiana that meets your requirements.

Jay Clawson stated, he would have to get our book and come up with our requirements for a subdivision.

Jim Ellis stated, I don’t know if you can tell, they called me and want $250 for drainage to be approved. Anyone can drive down this road and see it goes straight down. We have papers that say drainage is perfect from Milligan and still they charge $250 to see if it is complete drainage. If it doesn’t cost that much you will get it back. Last I heard they had to send it to Indianapolis to get the some kind of engineer to approve this. It was approved, but I want to find out who approved it.

President Charles Anderson stated, you have to go to the drainage board for that.

Dennis Sterrett stated it was approved at the drainage board.

President Charles Anderson stated, we don’t do the drainage.

Jim Ellis stated don’t you have the papers.

Dennis Sterrett stated, you got a letter from the survey that lot 2 was approved.

Jim Ellis stated, from what surveyor.

Dennis Sterrett stated, I’m the county surveyor.

Jim Ellis stated, from you.

Dennis Sterrett stated, yes.

Jim Ellis asked, why did it cost $250?

Dennis Sterrett stated, we had an engineer come up and look at it.

Jim Ellis stated, okay.

Without further discussion the board voted.

The Board finds the following:

The Primary Approval for a 3-lot subdivision to be known as Paradise Valley Subdivision was approved by a vote of 10 to 0, based on a finding of fact that the Standards of the Subdivision Control Ordinance have been met.

Attorney Altman stated, this is with conditions that there be 50’ access and the setback lines placed on lot 1.


President Charles Anderson stated, next on the agenda is business. Do we have any business to discuss.

Director Weaver stated, with your pictures you have a copy of Mr. Altman’s claims that he has presented to me. I have not had a chance to review these. I would like for the board to review these so we can approve them at he next meeting. I have also been requested by the Building Department to ask the board members if they still want to receive the permit listing of the building permits that are issued each month.

Several answered yes.

President Charles Anderson asked, does the board have any business they want to talk about?

Don Ward stated, Jay is leaving us.

Director Weaver stated, this is Jay’s last night and Charles Mellon. He has resigned from the APC so he can be on the BZA.

President Charles Anderson asked, anything on the lawsuits?

Attorney Altman stated, I haven’t heard anything yet.

The meeting adjourned.

Respectfully submitted,

Donald W. Ward, Secretary

White County Area Plan Commission

Diann Weaver, Director

White County Area Plan Commission