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The White County Area Plan Commission met Monday, April 9, 2007, at 7:30 p.m. in the Commissioners’ Meeting Room, Second Floor, County Building, Monticello, Indiana.

Members attending were: Jim Mann Jr., Mike Smolek, David Rosenbarger, Gerald Cartmell, Donald W. Ward, Dennis Sterrett, Greg Bossaer, Robert Thomas, and David Scott. Also attending were Attorney Altman and Director Weaver.

Visitors Attending were: Richard L. Williams, DR. Arthur McGregor, James White, Charles R. Mellon, Don Pauken, Phillip Bryant, and Dave Stimmel.

The meeting was called to order by Vice President David Rosenbarger and roll call was taken. Don Ward made a motion to dispense with reading and approve the minutes of the March 12, 2007 meeting. Motion was seconded by Greg Bossaer and carried unanimously.

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#926 Arthur J. & Sheila S. McGregor; The property is located on Lots 9-16 in Block 3 of Lake Drive Subdivision, in the City of Monticello, Union Township, located 209 Condo Street. Tabled from March 12, 2007.

Violation: None

Request: They are requesting to rezone from R-2 to B-1.

Vice President David Rosenbarger asked, do we have anyone representing? Come forward and state your name please.

Arthur McGregor stated, name is Arthur McGregor.

Vice President Rosenbarger asked, any questions from the board members?

Director Weaver stated, okay, I’ll start, we haven’t received anything in the office on this and what he is wanting to do is to bring the existing dental office into compliance with the ordinance.

Arthur McGregor stated, right, it’s been, actually, I just found out, very recently, and it was a, well I was surprised because it has always been a dental office and as far as I can ascertain back in the history of the office after the tornado Dr. Bougher sold it to Dr. Gannon and that was about 1972 and then from there prior to that Dr. Bougher had it 1972 I believe Gannon bought it and then I bought it from him and I guess I just assumed it was always an office and I just found out the fact that Diann was the one that just let me know about 6 months ago that hey your zoned R2,

I said what, and so she said you better get it zoned, rezoned at least B-1 and I said I think you’re right. So here I am, I’m just bringing it…

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, bringing it into compliance.

Arthur McGregor stated, yes. And I don’t believe it’s ever been, not to my knowledge, it’s ever been a residence but I may be wrong but prior to that I think it was built in the late 60’s as far as I know.

Don Ward stated, it was a long time ago.

Arthur McGregor stated, yeah I knew it was

Don Ward stated, I remember when they built it there’s never been a house there I knew of.

Arthur McGregor stated, no it’s, so that’s why I’m here.

Vice President Rosenbarger asked, any other questions from the commissioners? Anyone in attendance have any questions? Let’s vote.

The results of the vote were as follows: 8 affirmative and 0 negative. This will be presented to the County Commissioners for their action.

Attorney Altman stated, this will be forwarded to the Monticello City Council for their action and they have the final say on this and that is when?

Director Weaver stated, next Monday, I don’t, I can’t, I don’t know a time Jim.

Jim Mann stated, a week from this evening, the 16th at 6 p.m.

Arthur McGregor asked, where do I have to be now?

Jim Mann stated, at the city hall behind the Mayors office and the Police Station.

Arthur McGregor stated, okay.

Attorney Altman stated, and they have the final say on this okay.

Arthur McGregor asked, ok, so, will you send me a notification or something of that or?

Director Weaver stated, no, this is the only notification you’ll have of that.

Arthur McGregor stated, ok, I better write that down.

Director Weaver stated, okay, do you, do you want me to call the office, we can call the office in the morning and…

Arthur McGregor stated, I would appreciate that,

Director Weaver stated, yeah we can do that, we can do that.

Arthur McGregor stated, let me put it on my calendar. Okay.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, alright, thank you.

Arthur McGregor asked, okay that’s it?

Attorney Altman stated, you bet, that’s it.

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#927 Echterling Builder Inc.; The property is located on part of the N ½ NE ¼ 32-28-3 containing 0.46 acres and 2.648 acres in Monon Township, located North of Lowes Bridge off of West Shafer Drive and on the West side of Lake Road 52 W.

Violation: None

Request: They are requesting to rezone from A-1 and B-2 to R-2

Vice President Rosenbarger asked, do we have anyone representing?

Jim White stated, Jim White with Vester & Associates in Lafayette representing Echterlings.

Vice President Rosenbarger asked, commissioners have any questions on this? And I’m a little confused.

Don Ward asked, their wanting to put a business and…

Jim White stated, business and residential.

Don Ward stated, residential. What kind of business will it be?

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, well the first one is just for the residential.

Jim White stated, yeah first yeah.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, there’s two on the list tonight, the first one, I think everyone has a map. Can you explain this again Diann?

Director Weaver stated, the, well Jim might be able to explain it actually better. They’re looking at exhibit 3.

Don Ward asked, which one are we looking at, are we looking at this one?

Director Weaver stated, we’re looking at exhibit 3.

Director Weaver stated, Yeah

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, exhibit, yes

Don Ward asked, you’re looking at that one?

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, that’s the one we have in our… because it doesn’t show that line that…

Jim White stated, this one may show it a little better.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated stated, so I’d say…

Director Weaver stated, we must have copied the wrong one. I told you there was a line that went across there.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, you do have a line that goes across here, straight across.

Jim White stated, the first rezone involves the middle section, which is, there is zoned A-1 currently, and this is zoned B2, and we want to change that all to R2.

Attorney Altman stated, excuse me, may I interrupt for a minute.

Jim White stated, yes.

Attorney Altman stated, I wanted to confirm on the record that we’ve just been joined by a member. Mr. Cartmell has joined us and is listening to the evidence and of course has a ballot and will be voting on this matter. Thank you, go ahead.

Jim White stated, this area is currently A-1 we want to go to R-2 and this is currently B-2 and we want to make R-2, so this area would be the overall R-2. Obviously the purpose of doing that is we want to do a residential subdivision in that area.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, that is north, so to the west, this is the one that had the boat lifts and…

Dennis Sterrett stated, this is the one that had the L1, the horses, and the…

Director Weaver stated, B-2 had the marina on it and R-2 had the horses on it. Good memory, but it doesn’t look anything like it used to.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, pictures aren’t the same anyway.

Director Weaver stated, it looks a lot better.

Vice President Rosenbarger asked, commissioners have any questions? Diann, you got any comments on this?

Director Weaver stated, we haven’t received anything on this, no.

Vice President Rosenbarger asked, okay, anyone in the audience have any questions? Let’s Vote.

Attorney Altman asked, Diann would It be fair to say that this is basically residential general area generally around it? By that used as residences.

Director Weaver stated, yes.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, yeah, according to this it has lake residence to the south…

Director Weaver stated, it’s just an open field to the west of it, right back directly west of it.

Attorney Altman stated, very good.

Director Weaver stated, but yeah, it’s mostly residential.

The results of the vote were as follows: 9 affirmative and 0 negative. This will be presented to the County Commissioners for their action.

Attorney Altman asked, that will be when Diann?

Director Weaver stated, Monday morning in here at 8:30 in the morning.

Attorney Altman stated, next Monday morning, 8:30, here, right here in this room. Anybody have any questions on that? Again there isn’t other notice.

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#928 Echterling Builders Inc.; The property is located on part of the N ½ NE 1/3 32-28-3 containing 0.344 acres in Monon Township, located North of Lowes Bridge and on the South side of West Shafer Drive, between Lake Road 51 W. and Lake Road 52 W.

Violation: None

Request: They are requesting to rezone from A-1to B-2.

Attorney Altman stated, and again were looking at the same map.

Vice President Rosenberger stated, yes.

Attorney Altman stated, and you might start in from there.

Jim White stated, again, Jim White with Vester & Associates representing Echterlings. This request is to take the 50 foot strip that was purchased and square off the zoning for the B2 area of the west shafer drive property. We’re not, all were doing is adding that to the B2 that already exists. They had purchased this strip, just want to take this and attach it to that with the same zoning.

Vice President Rosenbarger asked, any questions from the commissioners? Diann any comments?

Director Weaver stated, I have nothing, no.

Vice President Rosenbarger asked, anyone from the audience have any comments? Let’s vote.

Mike Smolek asked, they don’t have a specific business for this right now?

Jim White stated, no specific business has been selected. Once again, it would be a minor or a small subdivision. There can be 1 to 4 in that area.

Attorney Altman asked, in the B-2?

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, not in the B-2.

Attorney Altman stated, not in the B-2.

Jim White Stated, pardon.

Attorney Altman stated, they wouldn’t have in the B-2 area, it wouldn’t be, that’s, you said 1-4.

Jim White stated, now the B-2 would be this area

Attorney Altman stated, but it wouldn’t be divided

Jim White stated, it can be.

Attorney Altman stated, and you’d have 1-4 businesses.

Jim White stated, there would be a possibility of it, yes.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, 1-4 business, small businesses.

Jim White stated, it may never happen, but, they would have that option.

Vice President Rosenbarger asked, any other questions?

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, let’s vote

The results of the vote were as follows: 9 affirmative and 0 negative. This will be presented to the County Commissioners for their action next Monday morning at 830, right here for the final determination with the positive recommendation.

Vice President Rosenbarger asked, is this part of that one we just did?

Director Weaver stated, yes.

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#929 Richard L. Williams; The property is located on part of the SE ¼ SW ¼ 5-27-3 containing 1.354 Acres in Liberty Township, located South of Lowes Bridge and off of East Shafer Drive. On the South side of Lake Road 36 E.

Violation: None

Request: They are requesting to rezone from A-1 to R-1.

Vice President Rosenbarger asked, anyone representing?

Richard Williams stated, I’m Rick Williams.

Director Weaver stated, Mr. Williams is wanting to subdivide this property. You would have the subdivision to be heard yet tonight, in order for him to do this subdivision he has to rezone this property so it can be divided into smaller lots.

Vice President Rosenbarger asked, any commissioners have any questions about the rezoning?

Unidentified member of the audience asked, how many lots is this broken into?

Attorney Altman stated, if you’re going to speak, you need to come up to the mic.

Unidentified member of the audience stated, excuse me, I’ll ask about it later.

Richard Williams asked, what was the question?

Unidentified member of the audience stated, how many lots is it broken into?

Richard Williams stated, 5.

Attorney Altman stated, and they will be right along the road, in other words, it’s sort of a string subdivision, will be 5 access and entrances off of the road.

Richard Williams stated, there’s one that matches to your property and there’s one that matches to pebbles property, and then my garage, and then the other two are the ones that people want.

Vice President Rosenbarger asked, Diann, have you heard anything on this?

Director Weaver stated, no I haven’t.

Jim Mann asked, did I hear you in, I guess in the information we received something about possible garages for some of the neighbors?

Richard Williams stated, yeah, the neighbors are the ones that want this. I don’t need it anymore. I had flower gardens and herb gardens and I’m kind of retiring from that business and they’ve been after me for quite some time to have parking places for their boat trailers and turnarounds and its just kind of an addition to their property. There’s really only one turnaround on the whole road and that’s my driveway.

Jim Mann stated, he knows the area then, don’t you.

Richard Williams stated, but I don’t mind, but that would give quite a bit more turnaround for U.P.S. and one of the neighbors has an oil truck that turns around there all the time, trash trucks.

Greg Bossaer asked, this isn’t going to be subdivided for homes?

Richard Williams stated, no, no, there’s not enough room for that, its only 100 feet. It’s just a little parking place and boat place for the neighbors.

Vice President Rosenbarger asked, anyone in the audience have any questions?

Don Ward stated, well, actually though, they can build on it if they want to.

Richard Williams stated, well that would be up to them. I’m just trying to supply the ground for them.

Attorney Altman stated, if you rezone it, that’s possible, you’re right?

Don Ward stated, yeah.

Richard Williams asked, for that small of property?

Don Ward stated, yes if it has 5 houses on it.

Attorney Altman asked, what is the requirement of R-1 for Diann per lot?

Don Ward stated, the problem is the 20 foot road.

Attorney Altman stated, yes, I agree.

Mike Smolek asked, is that a county road?

Someone stated, no.

Jim Mann stated, none of that even back there is county is it? Not any part of that road is county is it?

Director Weaver stated, no I don’t think it’s on here, it is on here, 7500 square feet, R-1 requires 7500 square feet per lot.

Don Ward asked, well they have that right?

Director Weaver stated, pardon.

Don Ward stated, they have that?

Director Weaver stated, yes

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, minimum lot width of 70 feet.

Don Ward stated, they have that too.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, what they can hand right now is the rezoning request. Any other questions on the rezoning?

Attorney Altman stated, and the question there is, is the highest and best use for the ground.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, right.

Attorney Altman stated, it’s a discretionary decision of the board, of each member, as to what is the highest and best use of this ground.

Don Ward asked, who maintains the road now? All the local land owners?

Richard Williams stated, yeah, I have a little kid to take care of the road. Usually have Stevenson grade it, the county does come down thru once in awhile but they don’t have to. They come down thru it to pick up with for snow removal and…

Attorney Altman stated, the zoning states so, not the subdivision states, that’s all I meaned on it.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, no further questions, vote on the rezoning.

Don Ward asked, you don’t own the land around it do you? Do you own the, you don’t own…

Richard Williams stated, no I have a home across the road on that middle one. Across the road from that garage.

Don Ward stated, yours is the one that’s fenced in?

Richard Williams stated, excuse me?

Don Ward asked, yours is the land that’s fenced in out there. Yours is the land that’s fenced in? You have your property fenced?

Richard Williams stated, yes

Don Ward asked, that’s your garage?

Richard Williams stated, yes

The results of the vote were as follows: 9 affirmative and 0 negative. This will be presented to the County Commissioners for their action next Monday morning at 830, right here for the final determination on this.

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#313 Richard L. Williams; Requesting approval of a 5 lot subdivision to be known as Richards Subdivision, on part of the SE ¼ SW ¼ 5-27-3 containing 1.354 Acres in Liberty Township, located South of Lowes Bridge and off of East Shafer Drive. On the South side of Lake Road 36 E.

Vice President Rosenbarger asked, anyone representing this request?

Richard Williams stated, Rick Williams.

Vice President Rosenbarger asked, commissioners have any questions?

Don Ward stated, this is to be a non-residential subdivision. Is that going to be set out on the plat somewhere that it will be non-residential that they cant build homes on it? The only problem I have with it is the road, 20 feet, we normally want 40 50 feet for fire trucks and stuff like that to get into it.

Attorney Altman stated, it’s a requirement, of the ordinance.

Richard Williams stated, well they haven’t had any trouble getting down our road now and we’ve had several fires.

Attorney Altman stated, well what I’m trying to say is that…

Don Ward stated, we understand that but, if it were somewhere where it states that its, cant be used for a residence then there’s no problem with it.

Richard Williams stated, I don’t care what they do with it, I mean, that wouldn’t be me. I have my garage and I don’t intend to do anything with it but these 2 lots right here people are just after me right and left, that’s what started all this because there houses are right across the road and they want parking and…

Don Ward stated, I can see that there crowded in there. What do the rest of you think?

Attorney Altman stated, it’s not what you think, it’s what you’ve made as your standard.

Don Ward stated, well I know. Actually we haven’t rezoned it yet. The commissioners have to approve that.

Jim Mann stated, it would be your hope obviously, that’s why, some of the reason why you’re doing this.

Richard Williams stated, well this guy lost a kid, over in Illinois and now they can’t find him and I haven’t heard from him so I don’t know. I don’t know what there going to do.

Jim Man stated, okay, okay.

Dave Scott asked, what is the minimum road width have to be?

Members of the board stated, 50 feet.

Attorney Altman stated, so that would be another 20 30 feet off of this property here. Doesn’t, that means 30 feet dedicated to roadway right-of-way, it doesn’t mean another 30 foot of road on there.

Don Ward stated, paved surface.

Attorney Altman stated, paved surface, yes, but it would make it so that it would be much more likely that these would be non-residential lots also, and we do care.

Richard Williams stated, well I wouldn’t understand why anybody would want to build over there, so, whatever your decision is there, that’s…

Don Ward stated, well I think, I think we need something on the plat that states that they can not build a residence. They can build buildings on it, but not a residence because we don’t have enough room for road. If you take out the road you won’t have enough room for your lots, and then, for a normal subdivision and…

Attorney Altman stated, for the new members to the board here, I told to talk to you just a bit ago about discretion; a rezoning decision is a discretionary act of the board. It is judged by what is the highest and best use, but it’s a very discretionary act. When it comes to approving or disapproving a subdivision that is proposed, you have to basically get very particular and have a reason why you require something from an applicant about, as an example, the 50 foot roadway. This is what we consistently required in this area. And another thing might be a dedication that this not be used for residential purposes. Because of the small lots and the density in the area that also could be a reasonable decision to be made here an requirement for this applicant so that basically you give him a laundry list of what he has to do and then he can, if he does it, then he can have a subdivision. The other thing here would be obvious that he has to get his rezoning done and approved by the commissioners.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, but it’s on the, it’s on the primary plat stated that way, non-residential lots.

Attorney Altman stated, it doesn’t, but that doesn’t say that that’s a restriction of the use. Any lawyer get a hold of that and they’d say, that doesn’t mean anything.

Vice President Rosenbarger asked, so we would have to put it in there, or he would have, well we would…

Attorney Altman stated, you would have to require that he did.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, right.

Attorney Altman stated, require that he did. On his secondary plat.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, right.

Director Weaver stated, this is only coming to the board for primary approval tonight also.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, right

Richard Williams asked, there’s a field behind it, what if they decided to buy more ground behind it?

Don Ward stated, that they can do.

Richard Williams asked, that they can do? Well, they’re going to have to come to you anyway for a garage. There going to have to have a building permit for that if that’s what they do.

Attorney Altman stated, we have no discretion there about whether we do or don’t grant a building permit. If it fits, we grant a permit, this is where there is requirements, ok, that’s all I’m trying to say Mr. Richards. It’s not whether it should be or shouldn’t be, it’s whether it meets the standards, OKAY that’s all.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, then if you give 30 foot right-of-way to that, at least lot 2’s not big enough.

Attorney Altman stated, well you have an applicant says he wants to have non-residential lots.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, right.

Attorney Altman stated, so that if you just require he put that on the subdivision appropriately that takes care of that problem.

Vice President Rosenbarger asked, would you be willing to put that on your subdivision ordinance?

Richard Williams stated, I don’t, that’s fine.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, as non-residential.

Richard Williams stated, I’m just doing it for the neighbors.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, right.

Richard Williams stated, I don’t need the property anymore for work.

Don Ward stated, well see if we, this way, your not generating 5 more or 4 more homes on a 20 foot road. You’re just saying they can build a garages or whatever they want to build on it except a home.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, little sheds, storage areas.

Richard Williams asked, but what would happen if they did buy ground out of that?

Don Ward stated, well that’s down the road and they’d have to…

Richard Williams stated, 30 acre field.

Don Ward stated, well they’d still have a 20 foot road, so they still wouldn’t be able to build I don’t think.

Attorney Altman stated, that’s right, that’s right.

Don Ward stated, if they wanted to put in a road behind 50 feet and turn the other way they could do that but, but there kind of land locked, you’re right there small and there, there not very deep, but, and so I agree with you people probably don’t want to build a house on it anyways, but, we don’t want a house on it since our rules and regulations say they’ve got to have 50 foot of road.

Richard Williams stated, well I don’t particularly either.

Don Williams stated, but if we have a commitment that they cant build on it, we can pass it.

Attorney Altman stated, yeah that would be real simple.

Dennis Sterrett asked, is the rear 5 foot?

Director Weaver stated, it is for an accessory building.

Richard Williams stated, I think the turnarounds are the, are one of the main things and the parking places and…

Dennis Sterrett asked, but for a home its?

Director Weaver stated, for a home its…

Don Ward stated, I know it’s crowded in there, I went and looked it over.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, 30, the rear.

Director Weaver stated, maybe even 35.

Dennis Sterrett stated, he shows a 5 foot rear setback on the plat, and if it’s zoned for residence it would have to be 35 feet.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, which is another residential.

Director Weaver stated, 35 feet.

Dennis Sterrett stated, 35, rear.

Vice President Rosenbarger asked, even for an outbuilding?

Director Weaver stated, no, for a home. For a home it would have to be 35 feet.

Attorney Altman stated, so basically if you’d expand your road, it keeps, it allows you to still to sell it, to for garages, like your wanting to do, and you put on there its non-residential, you get the best of all worlds, you get 5 sellable lots to put garages on there, and that’s what you want right?

Richard Williams stated, whatever, whatever the purchaser wants.

Attorney Altman stated, yeah I understand, but…

Richard Williams stated, it won’t be a home, I’m sure of that.

Attorney Altman stated, and that’s what, and that’s what we’re, that’s what we’re shooting for. Is that…

Richard Williams stated, see there would be no lake access to the, to any of this, so I wouldn’t know why anybody would want to, but…

Attorney Altman asked, so you basically would agree with that and then we could proceed right?

Richard Williams stated, sure.

Attorney Altman stated, okay, okay. Does the board understand he’s basically agreeing that?

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, he’s agreeing that on the, on the, what is it, not primary, secondary, it will state, non-residential.

Attorney Altman stated, that its, that’s only for non-residential uses and that the road would be, roadway right-of-way would be the 50 foot, and, but it would only be 30 foot off of this lot. These lots I should say, and that takes care of it. Then he can sell it for these garages and everybody’s happy.

Richard Williams states, suites me.

Attorney Altman asked, Don, does that meet your, that meets with what your saying right?

Don Ward stated, Yeah, I…

Dennis Sterrett asked, so your, your saying he needs to provide a 50 foot road, is that what you’re saying?

Attorney Altman stated, no, it just, it would be, so that there could be a 50 foot road in there, no he doesn’t need to provide it, just allow for access there on his side.

Richard Williams asked, for the garage?

Attorney Altman stated, for the road.

Richard Williams asked, the road or what?

Attorney Altman stated, ingress and egress to the subdivision and for the world.

Richard Williams asked, for houses or for garages?

Attorney Altman stated, for garages.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, even for garages it would be an imaginary line that, I don’t know how you would explain it, Don, how would you?

Don Ward asked, well, you’re not talking about taking it off of there now are you?

Attorney Altman stated, yes.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, see if you do that, that makes it…

Don Ward states, well then his lots aren’t going to work out.

Dennis Sterrett asked, you mean dedicate it?

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, yeah.

Attorney Altman stated, yeah. They would, they work out their garage…

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, I was thinking if you just went non-residential, you’re eliminating…

Don Ward stated, if you go non-residential then there’d be no houses so there’s no increased traffic, leave it alone, yeah.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, because what he’s getting if we do that if we…

Attorney Altman stated, he’s not approved 30 foot, 20 foot roads before too Don.

Don Ward states, that’s right, we haven’t.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, but we’ve never approved a non-residential subdivision either have we?

Director Weaver stated, yeah.

Attorney Altman stated, yes, we have.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, okay, before my time.

Director Weaver stated, only a couple times but…

Attorney Altman stated, and we required the expansion of the road.

Dave Scott stated, but then the lots are too small to meet the subdivision ordinance.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, well, the the setbacks are different for non…

Richard Williams stated, there, there’d be 33 foot deep.

Dave Scott asked, the total square footage would that be big enough?

Richard Williams stated, oh I see what you’re saying.

Dave Scott stated, the total square footage.

Richard Williams stated, I see.

Dave Scott stated, I don’t know what the minimum square footage is for a subdivision.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, 7500.

Dave Scott stated, you take 30 feet off of that.

Vice President Rosenbarger asked, can you get by with having him give up half of it, what about the people on the other side of the road?

Attorney Altman stated, Diann, would there, it needs 7500 square feet, that would be, would be looking at the smaller lots, they would be…

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, lot 2 is the smallest.

Don Ward stated, that’s 5600, that one wouldn’t do it.

Richard Williams asked that dedication won’t work because it would take 4 foot of my garage off, right?

Dave Scott stated, we would give you a variance for that.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, you would have to go to the BZA for that. Don, what about, why, why should he have to give up the whole extra 30 foot, can he get by with 15?

Don Ward stated, well because where’s he going to get it otherwise?

Attorney Altman stated, you’re not going to get it I don’t…

Don Ward stated, nobody else is going to give it on the other side because they’re very…

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, there not going to give it either.

Richard Williams stated, it’s actually helping the whole lane because there’s turn around’s in all these lots now.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, yeah, in each one.

Attorney Altman stated, yeah, I agree with you, and were just making sure it gets protected so that in the future when we're none of us are here.

Richard Williams stated, as far as non-residential I mean, I’m in 100 percent agreement with that, but as far as taking 4 foot off the front of my garage I have a little problem.

Jim Mann stated, because of the way its set up, we can’t allow the road to remain as it is.

Richard Williams stated, the garage and that purchase was all before it was zoned out there. That was the last township that was zoned.

Attorney Altman stated, basically you need more road to conform with the ordinance and what we’ve usually, what we’ve done consistently Jim. That’s the problem.

Don Ward stated, that’s a bad situation.

Richard Williams stated, accidental, if I’d known that I would have…

Jim Mann asked, so you’ve had other scenarios where this has occurred…road right-of-way be.

Dave Scott asked, is there room out there to take 10 foot of right away? Even though you’re not putting the road out there you’re 10 foot off the other side of…

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, right we’ve had them, we’ve had them of the 50 foot.

Attorney Altman stated, yes, yes, so that is dedicatable, dedicated and usable for road right-of-way.

Dennis Sterrett stated, no, I don’t think there is, there’s one garage sticking right out there on the street.

Don Ward stated, there probably is, there are things in there, there right, there is one thing sticking right out there about 2 or 3 feet off of it.

Attorney Altman stated, and if you don’t do it you never get it, and if you never get it then this the big trucks going back there, the ambulances, and what have you, have a deuce of a time getting in there.

Director Weaver stated, ok but this doesn’t go all the way out to the main road either. So you’re going to have 20 foot going back to a 50 foot right-of-way?

Attorney Altman stated, it happens all the time.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, right.

Attorney Altman stated, if you don’t get it, you never get it.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, yeah we’ve done that pretty consistently.

Attorney Altman stated, we did that the last subdivision we had.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, that one that…

Attorney Altman stated, the one we did last month.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, 2 months ago.

Attorney Altman stated, was exactly that, it didn’t go all the way out to the county road and we required the extra easement on that road.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, didn’t make them put the road in just made them give the easement.

Attorney Altman stated, that’s right.

Director Weaver stated, that was a whole new road, right.

Attorney Altman stated, we didn’t make them put the road in just made them give the easement.

Dave Scott stated, the thing of it is whether we do or don’t it looks like we can’t approve it but its not going to change the amount of traffic on there.

Don Ward stated, that’s right.

Dave Scott stated, whether we do or don’t.

Don Ward stated, technically it doesn’t abide by our rules.

Dave Scott stated, technically, right.

Attorney Altman stated, and again for the new members, so that you understand what were saying is, it isn’t that it is that the rules require that much easement for the roadway, and you have to put ascertainable standards down, and they have to be standards of the subdivision ordinance. Otherwise it, you know, its discretion, and with subdivisions you don’t have much discretion and we’ve consistently required the roadway easement for matters like this.

Don Ward stated, yeah, we’ve even enforced the one that had a house one house behind them. We forced a 50 foot strip along there 200 feet.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, we did, to go…right.

Attorney Altman stated, that’s right, precisely.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, just in case.

Attorney Altman stated, just in case.

Don Ward stated, I don’t, I don’t, how we going to prove that?

Attorney Altman stated, and he can get that except for his garage.

Don Ward stated, we’d have to readjust the lines.

Jim Mann stated, so the latitude given to preexisting situations, in this case, like his garage. I mean you have an awkward thing here where the garage is there. I mean, it’s obvious that that condition impacts the other lots.

Attorney Altman stated, it sure does.

Jim Mann stated, in terms of what the ideal and perfect thing would be to do be based on the ordinance. I guess because I’m somewhat new I’m just trying to understand what kind of latitudes that there are in if it’s situational to any extent at all.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, and my other question is, to Jerry is, the 50 foot is for a subdivision that you build on, housing. Would this fall under the same thing with it not being housing subdivision? It’s an accessory building subdivision, which is a whole new standard isn’t it?

Attorney Altman stated, well you could you could look at that but its R-1 and its going to go to every lot. I mean every lot is going to have a house associated with it. There’s just going to have a road in between. So it’s…

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, it’s just going to be an ext, well not necessarily, it’s, I could buy one of these lots.

Attorney Altman stated, that’s right, you could, you’re right.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, so you’re not, it’s…

Attorney Altman stated, not necessarily, you’re, you’re right, it could be somebody else.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, It, it, it’s a accessory subdivision not a building or housing subdivision.

Attorney Altman stated, that’s right.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, that’s what…

Attorney Altman stated, and, and if, and lets assume you did buy one of them. How you going to get in there? To use that, to use that as an accessory building or a non-residential building?

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, right.

Attorney Altman stated, you could put a business in there if you get it rezoned.

Vice President Rosenbarger, now how, well, now, now wait a minute…

Director Weaver stated, yeah, you’d have to rezone it first.

Vice President Rosenbarger asked, what, can he, that’s, ok, now I got another question, how could you rezone that if the subdivision is based on a non-residential lot?

Bob Thomas stated, and they could put storage units in there

Attorney Altman stated, storage in there, if they put, technically, you put any kind of business in there, that’s non-residential.

Don Ward stated, you can’t break off, you can’t sell that small of a parcel one at a time either.

Director Weaver stated, no, it has to go thru the subdivision.

Don Ward stated, so you have to subdivide.

Director Weaver stated, and it has to be rezoned to meet the subdivision requirements, because its, otherwise the lots are too small for the zoning.

Attorney Altman stated, and I agree with all that but I’ve seen it happen, and all I guess I’m saying is is you’ve got these requirements.

Don Ward asked, well if we put, if we move that back 30 feet to make 50 foot right-of-way in there, then what what’s the minimum setback going to be?

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, 32, 32 from the property, from the property line.

Director Weaver stated, it’s still going to be 32 feet.

Don Ward stated, well hell his whole garage is…

Director Weaver stated, that’s right.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, exactly.

Attorney Altman stated, that’s right, that’s exactly right, that’s, that’s, that’s, what you have to think about when you want a subdivision.

Don Ward stated, you’re right.

Attorney Altman stated, I mean, ahead of time, I can’t sugar coat that, it isn’t that I’m trying to rain on the parade, it’s just what the ordinance says.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, and were good lawyers, were trying every angle against you Jerry.

Attorney Altman stated, I know it.

Don Ward stated, at least it’d throw him for a hundred years.

Richard Williams stated, that’s next, I would have already done it had I known what I had to go thru.

Don Ward stated, yes, I’m sure you would.

Richard Williams stated, there’s 50 bucks here, and 250 bucks here, and maybe 2000 here, I don’t…

Dave Scott stated, as it exists now, that’s all one lot.

Richard Williams stated, plus 400 to get the surveyor, and…

Don Ward stated, one piece of property, that’s a nice piece of property.

Dave Scott stated, so he couldn’t even…

Don Ward stated, yeah its really a nice piece of property but, when you have that 50 foot rule, boy we really stuck it to him every time.

Attorney Altman stated, well it’s appropriate, that they have the easement, yeah, its I mean you got to…

Richard Williams asked, for a dead end road, why do you need, 50 foot road when I’m supplying and neighbors are supplying turn arounds? You have to have the turnaround anyway.

Attorney Altman stated, it’s the simplest answer, is that’s what the ordinance calls for, and that that may be, I mean, that may be…

Richard Williams asked, well who is Mr. Ordinance, let me talk to him?

Attorney Altman stated, that’s the, yeah I mean, that is the requirements of the ordinance. I’m not trying to be cute about that, like you say, it’s just that, that is, what we’ve required and we do require and the ordinance requires.

Don Ward stated, quite often there will be a 40 foot strip. So we’ll have them give 10 foot. Or sometimes they give 5 foot on each side and we end up with the 50 feet that way. Which would be nice there, but you can’t squeeze anything out of the other side, the north sides full.

Dave Scott stated, what about if he does a planned unit development or something, does he still have to have the 50 foot road?

Don Ward stated, well, he’d have to have a 40 I think.

Attorney Altman stated, yeah you would.

Gerald Cartmell stated, now that would save his garage.

Dave Scott stated, pardon me.

Gerald Cartmell stated, that’d save his garage if we could do that.

Don Ward stated, that wouldn’t help him any really.

Richard Williams stated, 20 would leave 80, would leave, your talking about 30 foot from 33 feet, that might make a nice dog house.

Attorney Altman stated, I agree.

Don Ward stated, there’s no question you’re right about.

Attorney Altman stated, however it’s no question that’s what the subdivision ordinance requires.

Jim Mann stated, so that wouldn’t work either.

Mike Smolek stated, go back to that leasing thing. What would be the requirements of that if he leased it to them for so many…

Don Ward stated, can’t lease it.

Attorney Altman stated, no, you can’t lease it.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, he’s showing 32 foot setback here from his property line.

Attorney Altman stated, you’d have so much trouble policing that in the future. I’m not talking about you and I’s future. I’m talking about the ordinance’s future, you know, a hundred years from now.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, so can’t he make his 30 foot of utility easement for a road right-of-way and still go back to the property line.

Attorney Altman stated, the one thing he, you can bend the rules enough to go to the 26 feet, and he can apply for, and get, presumably, maybe yet a variance yet for his garage at a 0 setback. And that would be that would not be tearing the usual requirement of the roadway easement up and still allow for a reasonable compromise.

Dave Scott stated, I didn’t understand that.

Don Ward stated, go thru that again.

Attorney Altman stated, 26 feet, I’m looking at lot number 3, it has 26 feet to the garage, rather than 30 foot, and that, and then it says the roadway would be 26 feet; easement would be 26 feet, and again a variance to allow it there.

Mike Smolek asked, Diann, if it’s a garage, how many feet from the back, 5 feet? How many from the front?

Dennis Sterrett stated, no that’s the south right-of-way line, as it is now.

Director Weaver, same as a home. In an R-1 its 32 feet.

Vice President Rosenbarger, but but but, my question is, when your easement, your not moving the property line, your moving the easement line and you still go back to the property line right? What I looked at down here, well look on line 2…

Dennis Sterrett stated, it will make the road 46 feet wide, right-of-way, not roadway, see it says 20 foot road.

Vice President Rosenbarger asked, well how do you have a 10 foot utility easement but you still count that into your 32 feet?

Attorney Altman stated, move it back..

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, No, that’s what I was asking, you’ve got a 10 foot utility easement, but, your 32 foot setback is from your property line, not from there.

Attorney Altman stated, that’s right.

Vice President Rosenbarger asked, can we ask for a 30 foot easement for a road instead of moving the property line back 30 feet?

Dennis Sterrett states, it all depends on what he did.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, keeps his lot the same size, but he just can’t build on it.

Attorney Altman stated, the easement goes to the right-of-way, easement goes to the right-of-way, in other words, your setbacks goes to goes to the easement.

Don Ward stated, so the property line stays where it is then they can’t build a road on it.

Attorney Altman stated, yeah, so they, the setback goes to the right-of-way.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, right, right.

Don Ward stated, if we move back 30 feet and we have a setback his whole building is inside it.

Mike Smolek stated, so technically instead of 30 feet instead of 40 feet.

Attorney Altman stated, oh yeah, that’s right, that’s why he needs a variance.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, and for lot 2, put much of anything on it.

Don Ward stated, then again, you’re going to have to readjust your lots.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, well but see, lot 2’s not going to be big enough and he can’t come…

Don Ward stated, squeeze off of this one a little and get that one up…

Richard Williams stated, yeah but heck I don’t even think that one is big enough either.

Don Ward stated, a hundred feet by 70 would be 7000 need to move it over just a little, this one would be big enough, move this, make that one big enough, this would be big enough, these two here I don’t know if that ones big enough or not.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, its close.

Don Ward asked, .217 acres does it say?

Attorney Altman stated, yes.

Don Ward stated, 43000 my calculator.

Attorney Altman stated, that ones big enough.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, no, not if you take 30 feet off of it.

Attorney Altman stated, its 1/6th.

Mike Smolek stated, that don’t sound right, I don’t think our county road is that wide.

Richard Williams asked, what about a garage?

Dennis Sterrett stated, that’s if it’s a residence. 5 foot 5 foot is 5 foot for accessory, that’s why its showing there, so if you got…

Mike Smolek asked, Denny, what’s the width of a normal county road?

Don Ward stated, 40 feet.

Mike Smolek asked, is that the actual gravel or is that this…

Don Ward stated, no, no that’s right-of-way.

Dave Scott stated, the pavement part of it is only about 20 on a county road.

Don Ward stated, about 18 to 20 feet or 24 foot some of them.

Mike Smolek stated, and then easement.

Don Ward stated, you have to have ditches, you have to have cuts and fills, and 40 feet is quite narrow really, city streets run 50 to 60, way more than that, but even along time ago they made a lot of them 60 feet and that was when they laid out the original town. You need more room in town, you have sidewalks.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, 35’ foot deep garage by 70’ long. That’s a pretty good sized garage. That would be without any variance, setback variances.

Dave Scott stated, there’s a 20’ road and a 10’ utility easement…can we make an exception because nothing traffic wise is going to change here.

Don Ward stated, I don’t know, he’s the lawyer, I’m not.

Dave Scott stated, I know, but…

Attorney Altman stated, you can make an exception, you you…

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, you have to watch setting precedents.

Attorney Altman stated, you eat them every time guys, you eat them every time.

Don Ward stated, remember in Idaville when we had the house behind and we made them put a 50 foot road back to that house.

Dennis Sterrett stated, yeah, but you’re talking house, were not talking houses.

Don Ward stated, I know.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, that’s what I said too, but then Jerry brings up the thing, once there sold they can come back in and rezone them for a business.

Richard Williams stated, but you have to approve it, we have to approve it though.

Director Weaver states, but the rezoning will have to have passed.

Vice President Rosenbarger asked, have to have what?

Director Weaver stated, it would pass, have to be passed, by the board and commissioners.

Attorney Altman stated, that’s true…

Several stated, correct.

Dave Scott stated, and it would have to be so many feet from…

Attorney Altman stated, but, but, who’s to say it wont get passed and you guys shoot towards the future.

Director Weaver stated, but at that point, what I’m, when I say that what I’m meaning is that at that time is the board should look at that road to see if it can handle a business, the traffic of a business, being back there.

Vice President Rosenbarger asked, my other question is of if it comes back in for a rezoning 10, 15, 20, years from now will it show that it was rezoned R-1 non-residential lot subdivision?

Director Weaver stated, you’ve already, I thought you had already decided that he needed to add that on the plat.

Vice President Rosenbarger asked, that will show if somebody comes in 20 years from now to rezone it?

Attorney Altman stated, we can guarantee it.

Director Weaver stated, yes.

Attorney Altman stated, I agree with Diann but I wouldn’t guarantee it, if you don’t have somebody there that remembers, Dave that’s all I can say.

Greg Bossaer stated, Don will be there.

Attorney Altman stated, I’ve been there, but I, I’m not sure 20 years I’ll be here.

Dennis Sterrett stated, isn’t the final plat going to say non-residential or have…

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, yeah, that’s how we passed the R-1 was it has to read non-residential lots, it’s a non-residential subdivision.

Attorney Altman stated, the real question then is how far back do you require the roadway right-of-way to be dedicated on this subdivision, and I would suggest rather than 30 foot you might go the 26 feet and do of his garage there, as being a bit of a accommodation.

Jim Mann asked, so then if you do that you…

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, he's alright unless he needs to rebuild his garage then he’d have to get a setback..

Attorney Altman stated, a variance.

Richard Williams stated, I don’t think that much of neighbors.

Director Weaver stated, yeah, you would make the lot smaller right.

Jim Mann stated, so your garage is, would naturally be smaller.

Dennis Sterrett stated, your lots only going to be 60…74 by 80.

Attorney Altman stated, makes it, makes everything smaller, because of…road, but that’s the way it goes when you go to develop it.

Dennis Sterrett asked, so you got to have 7500 you said?

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, for an R-1.

Dave Scott stated, even if you put it the record that these are just accessory buildings the traffic flows not going to change, everything we do here is just paperwork, the traffic doesn’t change, it doesn’t change, its just, …

Attorney Altman stated, protecting for the future.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, everything he’s doing is for the good, what Jerry’s talking, and I think about it a little bit to is the future, you know, and that’s why we do the whole 9 yards is for your grandkids, I just, there’s got to, to me, I’m too naïve, there’s got to be a way that, that, non-residential lot has to play in there somehow that you can make it stick. That’s why you guys go to 8 years of college, right Jerry?

Attorney Altman stated, well, the truth is if you don’t put it in there to stick, then somebody that went 8 years of school is going to get around it.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, and that’s not what we want and the neighbors don’t want.

Attorney Altman stated, nobody wants that. Back in a very small road, and having significant problems caused by development, and that’s, it could go forever the way it is right now. But if it develops it, the standards are there.

Dave Scott asked, so basically at this point he doesn’t have any options, is what were telling him, right?

Don Ward stated, pretty much.

Gerald Cartmell stated, sell it and get out of dodge.

Attorney Altman stated, or, or, or, modify it so that it goes back…

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, you’d have to modify you’re your lots again to make them come up 7500 square feet.

Attorney Altman stated, and you may have to do that, that doesn’t take much of an engineer to modify that line.

Don Ward stated, actually they’d still have some room to build; they could build a garage back in there easily because they’d have 30 feet or so.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, build a, build it 35 foot deep.

Don Ward stated, and they’ve never, there never going to do anything with the road in the next 40 years so, you know.

Attorney Altman stated, there was a long time…

Don Ward stated, never, someday they will.

Bob Thomas stated, we can’t even get the highway in Wolcott fixed, I can’t see them going out there and putting a county road in.

Don Ward stated, well actually it’s a smart move to put the county road in. If they can get it in from out at the county road then the county takes care of it.

Vice President Rosenbarger asked, so do we need to come up with some kind of a written thing or see if he wants to?

Attorney Altman stated, well he said he would, and I’m not sure he’d says he will now.

Bob Thomas stated, the state don’t even take care of the state roads.

Don Ward stated, you’re a sinic, you’re a pessimist.

Bob Thomas stated, they started at Fourth Street in Wolcott, went all the way to Illinois line, they started at San Juan Pools and went all the way to Logansport, now they say its going to be 010 before they get to town.

Don Ward stated, well, I’ve heard town, but I haven’t been over there.

Attorney Altman stated, Mr. Williams, Mr. Williams, Mr. Williams, if you will come back to the mic.

Richard Williams stated, yes sir

Attorney Altman stated, so that we get this moving on, I, I, the most I can propose that would be able to do with your garage there would be that the right-of-way easement would be 26 feet and if they, then, and that you have a subdivision set up like you’ve agreed that it would non-residential. Are you agreeing to do that and propose with that so that you can sell?

Richard Williams stated, sure.

Attorney Altman stated, ok, based on that, Id recommend we approve it, this, even though that isn’t quite the 50 feet it’s pretty close.

Dennis Sterrett stated, how about the area.

Attorney Altman asked, the what?

Dennis Sterrett stated, the area of the lots.

Attorney Altman stated, then the lots would have to be modified a little bit.

Dennis Sterrett stated, he’d have to move his shed if he was going to modify the lots.

Attorney Altman stated, Don thought they didn’t have to be, that they would fit.

Vice President Rosenbarger asked, Don, what about that 12x12 shed that’s sitting out there?

Don Ward stated, well I don’t remember whether that’s on foundation or not

Gerald Cartmell stated, you could move that, he said he could move that, that’s on runners.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, oh ok.

Attorney Altman stated, so that if you move that if he could get in that square footage.

Dave Scott stated, and then you’d need, he need a variance then for his garage .

Attorney Altman stated, enough for 5 lots, he’d need a variance if it ever burned down and wants to rebuild it.

Dave Scott stated, but for now he’s ok..

Attorney Altman stated, for now he’s ok..

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, yes.

Attorney Altman stated, and in a subdivision situation this board is empowered to do that. And he’s willing to do it, and I guess I’d recommend we approve it based on that.

Greg Bossaer asked, so the maximum size of the building would be?

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, 35 by, roughly 35 by 70.

Attorney Altman stated, which could put it all the garage you wanted in there.

Vice President Rosenbarger, 35 foot deep 70 feet wide.

Attorney Altman stated, all the garage I think anybody’s going to want in there at least.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, that’s in, that would be in like lot 2, and its going, its going to have to be wider than it actually is now.

Don Ward stated, well lot 2 and lot 1 will both probably have to be widened and lot 3 and lot 5 will have to be, or lot 5 will have to be narrowed and so will lot 3.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, right.

Richard Williams stated, within 5 feet of here.

Attorney Altman stated, but there’s room when the ground to develop to do that.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, to do that.

Attorney Altman stated, OKAY, is that alright.

Vice President Rosenbarger asked, do you want to write it up that way?

Attorney Altman stated, you bet, I will.

Vice President Rosenbarger asked, now do we write that on that paper with those… Do your job Jerry.

Don Ward stated, so were going to move your right-of-way line 26 feet.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, for the road.

Don Ward stated, make a 46 foot road.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, make the lots.

Don Ward stated, make the lots 7500, and the, and he’ll have to have a special exception for his garage.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, no, only if he rebuilds it.

Attorney Altman stated, no, just a variance.

Director Weaver stated, it’s just…

Attorney Altman stated, only if he…

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, only if he rebuilds it because it’s already setback.

Don Ward asked, were still going to have a 32 foot setback right? With a 5 foot in back and they can use all the rest of it for parking, they will never build a road for a long time.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, exactly, he’s got a big parking lot out front 62 feet of parking lot. Well, were only going 26 foot instead of, were only going 26 instead of 30.

Don Ward stated, with the road, but the 32 foot setback can stay, unless they can come in here and get a special acceptance.

Dave Scott stated, if something happens to his barn, he’s got to come back and get a 32 foot setback to rebuild it.

Several stated, yes or a variance.

Dave Scott stated, you understand that, your garage, if something happens to it, and its destroyed and you want to rebuild it, you have to, you’d have to come back and get a 32 foot variance in order to rebuild your garage on the same foundations and you’d be at the mercy of the 5 guys on the Board of Zoning Appeals.

Richard Williams stated, I can handle that, you haven’t scared me yet, I’m just waiting for a decision.

Dave Scott stated, no, I just wanted you to be aware that…

Richard Williams stated, that’s fine, it didn’t have to be an “L” shaped anyways.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, yeah, ok..

Richard Williams stated, 2100 square feet. I don’t need that much room anymore.

Dennis Sterrett stated, I don’t think he can still reach the 7500 square feet without moving this lot 2 line over thru his garages or his sheds.

Don Ward stated, I agree.

Attorney Altman stated, oh yes I agree he has to move them.

Don Ward stated, it’s got to be moved, the lot lines have to be moved.

Attorney Altman stated, yeah, the lot lines have to be moved.

Dennis Sterrett stated, see you’re going to have to make this lot wider, maybe line up with that, I don’t know.

Attorney Altman stated, yeah, 5 smaller and…

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, 3 a little smaller.

Attorney Altman stated, and 3 a little smaller.

Dennis Sterrett stated, 3 will be smaller.

Richard Williams stated, this isn’t big enough?

Dennis Sterrett stated, it wont be after you move this line 26 feet and nor will this.

Richard Williams stated, well that’s the same with all of them.

Dennis Sterrett stated, well these are bigger.

Attorney Altman stated, ok on the ballots you have before, the standards have, whether they have or haven’t been met, then it would be that they have not been met but you can drop down to the primary approval shall be granted upon the receipt of additional conditions of required by the commission. Number 1 is the rezoning to R-1. Number 2 is that the dedication of the right-of-way is 26 feet. Number 3 that the plat contain, that it is a non-residential use that there to be no residential use on the lot. I think that’s it right?

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, and lot size 7500 square feet.

Attorney Altman stated, well and the lots of course are required to be 7500 square feet, but that’s right a part of the ordinance, but it doesn’t hurt to put it down there. And though he may not think so, that is a accommodation.

Jim Mann stated, would you mind going over those, one more time?

Attorney Altman stated, number 1 is the rezoning it’d have to be, go to, an R-1 use.

Dennis Sterrett stated, I thought we already zoned, rezoned it?

Attorney Altman stated, yeah, but it has to be approved.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, it still has to be approved by the commissioners.

Attorney Altman stated, yeah, number 2, that the right-of-way of the road would go back to 26, go back 26 feet. And number 3, that the lot size would be the 7500 square foot or more, and that’s basically going out of the ordinance. And the fourth thing would be that it would be a non-residential use of the lots only.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, I didn’t see that…

Director Weaver stated, I don’t think so, but he’s not up for secondary anyways.

Attorney Altman stated, okay, but he should have that…

Director Weaver stated, he’s working on it.

Attorney Altman stated, ok, ok, alright.

Attorney Altman stated, announcing the results on the primary ballot for application number 313, essentially by agreement of the applicant, it is required that the property be rezoned, that the, there be a 26 foot right-of-way it would be for the road that the lots be all shown as non-residential in use and the lot size being at least the 7500 minimum square foot. Alright, you need to probably have your surveyor call myself or Diann about that, we’d be glad to help now okay.

The Primary Approval for a 5 lot subdivision to be known as Richards Subdivision was approved by a vote of 9 to 0, based on a finding of fact that the Standards of the Subdivision Control Ordinance have been met.

****

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, alright next on the agenda is business, next on the agenda is business, if you’ve got any business.

Attorney Altman stated, yes we do have Diann.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, Diann, attorney fees.

Director Weaver stated, the attorney fees.

Vice President Rosenbarger asked, any questions of Jerry on his fees?

Attorney Altman asked, Diann, don’t we also have the matter in there?

Director Weaver stated, no problems with the attorney fees?

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, any problems with the attorney fees?

A board member stated, Nope.

Director Weaver stated, okay I have also been asked to bring up to the board, we had a variance filed with BZA last fall for a pole barn, it was for personal storage, it was in a A-1 district, but it was to tall, so they had to go thru a height variance, in doing so, when the survey was done, it was noticed that the home had been built to close to the road and a permit had been issued thru a previous director to build the home. When I pulled the permit file he clearly showed right on the permit application that he was going to be closer than what was allowed by our ordinance. The board, BZA, had passed his variance on his pole building with the contingency that he file a variance to bring the home into compliance. So I have been asked to approach the area plan commission about waiving the filing fee for that variance since it was not his fault.

Attorney Altman stated, and the reason why that comes back here is an ordinance of this body has set the fees. Not a matter of the BZA, just so you understand that.

Director Weaver stated, filing fee is $75.00.

Don Ward asked, $75.00?

Director Weaver stated, yes.

Vice President Rosenbarger asked, but his building is the way the print shows?

Director Weaver stated, it’s not exactly.

Attorney Altman stated, it is clearly an error of the former department administrator and I think it’s totally appropriate that the fee not be charged in this circumstance.

Vice President Rosenbarger asked, do we have a motion to waive the fee?

Don Ward stated, I make a motion to waive the $75.00 fee.

Vice President Rosenbarger asked, second?

Jim Mann stated, I’ll second

Vice President Rosenbarger asked, all in favor?

Members of the board stated, I.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, so move.

Director Weaver stated, you have the President of the BZA back there waving his hand.

Dave Stimmel stated, was there any discussion on that? What kind of precedence does that show is really the only concern that I had.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, my feeling is, asking Diann, whoever it was, followed the letter, if their prints, and what they filed showed it, and we didn’t catch it at one time or another when they issued the permit, that he needed a variance, its not his fault.

Dave Stimmel stated, I understand that, I’m just talking about this whole concept of waiving fees, and for whatever reason they have, what you get into here, it’s just a question, that’s all it is.

Attorney Altman stated, there’s no question that it establishes precedence.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, right, other than it was stated that we waived it because of that reason.

Attorney Altman stated, and the precedence is modified is set up that there’s reasons why.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, it was waived because it looks like the guy, the person, followed everything they were supposed to and our office let them down.

Dave Stimmel stated, I don’t disagree with what you’re saying, I really don’t, its just it does, create some problems possibly down the road.

Vice President Rosenbarger stated, and I guess, if anybody else can prove that they did everything they were told to do right, wrong, or indifferent, you kind of have to stand behind that.

Attorney Altman stated, I think we’re ready for that motion to adjourn.

Director Weaver stated, that’s all I have.

Greg Bossaer made a motion to adjourn.

Don Ward seconded the motion.

The meeting adjourned.

Respectfully submitted,

Donald W. Ward, Secretary

White County Area Plan Commission

Diann Weaver, Director

White County Area Plan Commission

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

“I AFFIRM, UNDER THE PENALTIES FOR PERJURY, THAT I HAVE TAKEN REASONABLE CARE TO REDACT EACH SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER IN THIS DOCUMENT, UNLESS REQUIRED BY LAW.”