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The White County Area Plan Commission met Monday, July 9, 2007, at 7:30 p.m. in the Commissioners’ Meeting Room, Second Floor, County Building, Monticello, Indiana.

Members attending were: Jim Mann Jr., Mike Smolek, David Rosenbarger, Charles Anderson, Gerald Cartmell, Donald W. Ward, Dennis Sterrett, and David Scott. Also attending were Attorney Altman and Director Weaver.

Visitors Attending were: James J. White, Richard Secrest, Betty Secrest, John A. Mitchell, Linda M. Mitchell, Don Echterling, Don Pauken, Nona Crew, Gene Criswell, Pat Criswell, Char Voris, Ray Voris, Ken Dunn, Laura Dunn, Katie Billue, David Wagner, Pastor Steve Smith, Eileen Krainik, Mitch Juris, Kim Creigh, Stephen Malcom, Marge Getty, William Misenhiemer, Mary P. Sparger, Renea Horn and Ben Woodhouse (Deputy).

The meeting was called to order by President Charles Anderson and roll call was taken. Don Ward made a motion to dispense with reading and approve the minutes of the June 11, 2007 meeting. Motion was seconded by Jim Mann Jr. and carried unanimously.

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#939 Linda M. Mitchell, Owner & John A Mitchell, Applicant; The property is located on 2.251 Acres, part SW SW 11-28-3, in Liberty Township, located East of Buffalo at 9036 N. Lenback Court.

Violation: None

Request: They are requesting to rezone from B-2 to I-2.

President Charles Anderson asked, do we have anybody here representing that request? You want to come forward and state your name, loudly.

John Mitchell stated, yes Doc, I’m John Mitchell.

President Charles Anderson asked, do the commissioners have any questions about the request at all? I think somebody in the audience probably has some questions about the request. Anybody in the audience want to have anything to say about the request at all?

Pauline Sparger asked, about the rezoning?

President Charles Anderson asked, you want to raise your hand and come forward and state your name too? You can step inside if you want to John.

Pauline Sparger stated, hi John.

John Mitchell stated, hi, how are ya?

Pauline Sparger stated, hi, Pauline Sparger. We have a problem because we want to know what the I-2 is going to be used for, the I-1 or I-2, whatever it is.

President Charles Anderson asked, okay, you want to address that at this point.

John Mitchell stated, yeah, I’d like to purchase a garbage packer maybe in the future and park it in my bard, and I understand I have to have a rezoning to park it inside my barn.

President Charles Anderson asked, to park…?

John Mitchell stated, the garbage packer.

President Charles Anderson stated, okay.

Pauline Sparger asked, okay, but how big is this garbage packer?

John Mitchell stated, well probably a 8 yard one.

Pauline Sparger asked, and actually what will this garbage packer do?

John Mitchell stated, it picks up trash ma’am.

Pauline Sparger stated, no, no, that’s not what I’m, alright, its going to pick up trash, but you’ve already got over there waste.

John Mitchell stated, roll off dumpsters right.

Pauline Sparger stated, right.

John Mitchell stated, right, salvage dumpsters, right.

Pauline Sparger asked, okay, then what is this going to do that that doesn’t do? Is what I want to know. What we want to do is we want to make sure that we haven’t got a bunch of industrial things going on over there.

President Charles Anderson stated, ma’am, once it goes to I-2 anything in I-2 can go in there later on.

Pauline Sparger stated, so the thing is, once it’s zoned, anything can go in there, it can be asked for anything now, but anything else can go in there.

President Charles Anderson stated, if it stays I-2. Yeah. If it’s rezoned.

Attorney Altman stated, anything I-2 can go in there.

Pauline Sparger asked, okay, what would you consider I-2?

President Charles Anderson asked, Diann, you want to read that, you got the list there?

Attorney Altman stated, the Ordinance controls that, okay.

Pauline Sparger stated, I know, but what does I-2 actually consist of? Because…

President Charles Anderson stated, there’s a lot of different things that I-2 can have.

Attorney Altman stated, Diann will try to give you that answer but were trying to tell you where the source of the answer is, okay.

President Charles Anderson stated, I’ll tell her.

Director Weaver stated, the I-2 zoning will allow for auto body painting and repairing, auto and truck rental services, sales, service and repair, building material storage yard, cold rolled metal plant, distribution center, farm store, a boundary, a freight terminal, a grain elevator, a hatchery, general industry, janitorial services, livestock confinement, machine shops, marine accessory shops, meat processing plant, motor bus terminals, moving company, newspaper printing facility, pallet production and refurbishing, parking facilities and lots.

John Mitchell stated, there’s some of that going on over there already.

Director Weaver stated, well that doesn’t mean this is the only zoning that it can go in. This is just what the I-2 will allow.

President Charles Anderson stated, it includes a lot of different things.

Pauline Sparger asked, okay, what about the noise factor?

President Charles Anderson asked, what about the noise factor? You got a …

Pauline Sparger stated, any of these…

President Charles Anderson stated, some of those other things might, as far as his noise factor, you want to state what, you know, the, your use would be.

John Mitchell stated, I don’t know what noise they’re talking about Doc. There’s no more noise that I make that a bunch of golf carts running up the road on a Sunday afternoon.

Pauline Sparger stated, oh yes there is. Trucks make noise.

Attorney Altman stated, please.

John Mitchell stated, if you’re going to speak you got to come here.

Pauline Sparger stated, okay, now we, we’ve got more problems than that right now, but what were concerned with right now is, this is all residential on the road connected to it.

John Mitchell stated, okay, let me explain something though. This zoning only affects that piece of ground up front. It doesn’t affect back to the other road. We are only talking about 2 acres of ground that sits where those 2 buildings are up front. Everything else on that property I can do what the hell I want to, because I’m grandfathered. All the way to the road on the other side. We’re only talking about 2 acres of ground up there that’s zoned right now, everything else is grandfathered, even that hay field out there is grandfathered for me to have my salvage yard in. And I’m trying to be right with everybody, and keeping up with…

Pauline Sparger asked, is that actually true?

John Mitchell stated, yes.

President Charles Anderson stated, he was there before…

Director Weaver stated, he, he is only rezoning 2.25 acres.

John Mitchell stated, that’s all I’m rezoning, the piece up front. What’s back there I’m trying to get straightened out. And you see its all nice and mowed, try’s to keep…

Pauline Sparger stated, yeah, I agree with that.

John Mitchell stated, I’m trying to keep everything up front.

Pauline Sparger stated, it’s just what we’re concerned with right now is we’re concerned that there isn’t going to be something coming in there that’s going to be heavy noise, heavy industry, manufacturing so to speak. All that kind of thing.

President Charles Anderson stated, you have to do this to bring it into compliance for the new use that you want to use it for right now.

John Mitchell stated, right, evidentially. That’s what Diann told me. If I wanted to park my truck inside I got to get rezoned. I don’t know why I wasn’t I-2 back 14 years ago when I did it, to put my buildings up.

President Charles Anderson stated, you guys weren’t in with the zoning at that point.

John Mitchell stated, when I, when I rezoned that, I wanted the heaviest zoning I could get and I was told B-2 was all I’d ever need.

President Charles Anderson stated, you don’t have any plans in the near future to sell your property or anything like that as far as you know.

John Mitchell stated, no, no, unless they come up with a lot of money, then I’ll move. Yeah, maybe they’d like to buy me.

President Charles Anderson asked, do we have anybody else that has any questions about this request? You want to come forward and state your name. Can you hear me?

Eileen Krainik stated, yeah, hi, my name is Eileen Krainik and I live right on the road, right across from Jeremy, and the noise, yeah there is noise, you said there isn’t any.

John Mitchell stated, during the day.

Eileen Krainik stated, my bedrooms are is right there and those trucks come and go and you hear the truck coming down the gravel, which you can hear any car coming down, that I understand. But then the trucks go in there and come back with the beep beep beep beep beep, and if you’re sleeping, you’re up, because this is a constant thing. And I understand the mans got to make a living, I don’t deny that, but the thing is yeah, there is noise. So it’s not just quiet like you say it is, its not. And once this goes industrial, what happens to us as residents? Our property values going to go down. Once you put industry in anything, your property values going to go down and you know it and I know it. So…

President Charles Anderson asked, is that maybe your main concern, property values and noise pollution from it?

Eileen Krainik stated, well yeah, it’s a big thing and I do have a golf cart, so I’m one of the ones that drive back and forth, so you know.

President Charles Anderson asked, do we have anybody else with anything to add to that? You want to come forward and state your name ma’am.

Kenneth Dunn stated, John says it’s going to be garbage.

President Charles Anderson stated, you want to state your name please, for the record.

Kenneth Dunn stated, Kenneth Dunn, d u n n. We’ve got a pig farm south of him. We smell it. It comes our way. I don’t know what John’s going to have, but if its going to be garbage the winds coming our way.

John Mitchell stated, the packer can’t keep garbage in it.

Kenneth Dunn stated, no, but there’ll be garbage when you’re doing it. What about it overnight?

John Mitchell stated, no, that’s what I just said, you can’t park it overnight with garbage in it. No, it must be emptied.

President Charles Anderson asked, but you’re basically wanting to park it in there to get it out from the …

John Mitchell stated, well yeah. I’ve got a pole barn to put it in, but I understand I have to be rezoned to put it in there, so if I have to be rezoned, then, that’s what I’m asking. If I don’t have to be then I’ll park it in there, leave it B-2, and I’ll go home, have my supper.

Kenneth Dunn stated, one other thing, I don’t know if this is the same that Chalmers had. They had recycling and all that. And their bales would break open you’d have rags, you’d have papers strung up and down 421 or 43. You’d have that…

John Mitchell stated, no.

Kenneth Dunn stated, garbage blows as far as I’m concerned.

President Charles Anderson asked, what exactly are you going to be doing?

John Mitchell stated, not a garbage route, a trash route.

President Charles Anderson stated, it’s just your garbage truck.

John Mitchell stated, pick up trash, when done for the day, dump it at the landfill, go home, park my truck, and do something else. One day a week.

President Charles Anderson stated, this is so you can park your truck inside the building is what you’re trying to do.

John Mitchell stated, well yeah, if I get the zoning I think I can park it outside can I not? But I have to get a special exemption to park it outside.

Director Weaver stated, a waste facility, and you and I talked about this, there’s a very fine line here. A waste facility has many definitions but it calls for and I-2 with a special exception. I don’t know that we consider this a waste facility.

Mike Smolek asked, my question is, it’s basically a dump truck or a garbage truck, you’re not going to unload there, you’re not compacting anything, blah, blah, blah. It’s going to be an everyday garbage truck that you would see on the road, so basically what you’re doing is picking up a route and then taking it to the landfill and bringing the truck home for storage.

John Mitchell stated, yeah, that’s what I want to do.

Kenneth Dunn stated, I’m also concerned what happens if John sells. This is bad for everybody possibly. John’s alright it’s just that we got to kind of look out for the future.

President Charles Anderson asked, as far as him selling in the future though, would his property be grandfathered after he sold or would it revert?

Director Weaver stated, it would not revert unless the board has a committee done up for it.

President Charles Anderson stated, no, no, no, that’s not what I’m saying though. But as far as him being grandfathered, is property always grandfathered once he sells it, it’s no longer grandfathered is it?

Director Weaver stated, as long as the use continues non-stop…

President Charles Anderson stated, as long as the use continues it is.

Director Weaver stated, yeah, it has to stay continuous.

Kenneth Dunn asked, it can’t be reversed if he sells it?

President Charles Anderson stated, no, this can’t be.

Jim Mann Jr. stated, so for him to have just a garbage truck he’s got to rezone the property.

Director Weaver stated, if, if…

Mike Smolek stated, but the roll off’s are no different than what the garbage truck is.

John Mitchell stated, roll off’s I use in my salvage business.

Director Weaver stated, I understand that. Like I said, a waste, we have a definition for waste disposal and management source reduction. You’ve got recycling under that, you’ve got collections under that, you’ve got composting, you’ve got incarnation, landfill…

Mike Smolek stated, he’s none of those things though.

Director Weaver stated, a processing center and a transfer center station. You know, I mean, he and I discussed this, that’s it’s, you know. Waste is considered industrial, solid, hazardous, municipal, solid, wastewater, yard, maybe I’m wrong, maybe, maybe it doesn’t have to be.

Mike Smolek stated, he’s not, he’s not applying to be a station to bring this stuff into, he’s just driving a truck to take to the landfill.

Director Weaver stated, no not a transfer station, no.

Don Ward stated, yeah but once he gets it rezoned he can do what he wants as long as he’s…

Mike Smolek, well that’s what I’m saying why do we need to change the zoning if it’s just for garbage truck.

Eileen Krainik asked, why can’t he just get a special permit or something of that nature?

Mike Smolek asked, I mean, you’re just, you’re really, don’t want to rezone it if you have to or you’re just trying to follow the…

John Mitchell stated, no, I mean, yeah, I just trying to go by what she suggested I had to do.

President Charles Anderson asked, what does our lawyer say about that?

Attorney Altman stated, I have not been asked that question before right now. I would want to take some time to reread the ordinance and give you an answer to that because I’m not sure right now what I would say. Because it is a very complicated area of our ordinance and I think it’s an important question to Doc. I think that maybe to give you an answer would be table it for a meeting and I could research and read it and give you an answer.

President Charles Anderson asked, in the meantime do we give him permission to park his garbage truck inside his building because we don’t know…

John Mitchell stated, I don’t have one yet.

President Charles Anderson stated, you don’t have one yet.

John Mitchell stated, I want to buy one.

Eileen Krainik asked, Jeremy drives one doesn’t he?

John Mitchell stated, no, no he doesn’t, he drives a roll off truck.

President Charles Anderson stated, do we, you had another question here.

Norma Crew stated, yes, I’m Norma Crew, and I’m from a street behind them, and yes I’m concerned about the property value. I’ve put a lot of money into my home there. But that’s not the only thing. If he gets this R-2 zoning what is to prevent him from putting the pig farm up there by lot 16 or somewhere else?

President Charles Anderson stated, ma’am it’s a I-2 zoning.

Norma Crew stated, I-2.

President Charles Anderson asked, I don’t think a pig farm goes on that does it?

Norma Crew stated, yes it was.

President Charles Anderson stated, a pig farm was on there?

Director Weaver stated, yeah, I think it was listed on there.

Mike Smolek stated, yeah, I don’t understand that either, that’s a whole another topic.

Norma Crew stated, this is what we’re trying to prevent back there. I mean, we’ve put good money into good homes.

John Mitchell stated, but see then you got setbacks Mrs. Crew, you’ve got everything else that have to come into compliance. There’s no way you could put one in there because theirs not enough room to do it, on that little 2 acres of lot.

President Charles Anderson stated, if we did have to rezone this, we could rezone it contingent that it would revert back to if he’d try to sell the property so it could stay I-2 while he had it and then if he tried to sell it it would revert back to the agricultural zoning that it’s got. But then that piece would no longer be grandfathered then would it. If we change the zoning on it and send it back.

Director Weaver stated, well he’s rezoned this part that he’s rezoning now.

President Charles Anderson stated, oh he’s already rezoned it.

Director Weaver stated, he’s, he rezoned it to B-2.

John Mitchell stated, it was B-2, and I asked for the heaviest zoning I could get and was told that B-2 would all I ever need knowing I was in the salvage business. So know all the sudden it’s oh you should’ve been I-2.

Director Weaver stated, so it was not part of the grandfather.

President Charles Anderson asked, any other Commissioners have any thoughts on this?

Dave Scott stated, down here on this bottom line, property each minimum lot size is 25,000 square feet for an I-2 zoning but does not meet the required minimum lot width for of 250 feet. Does that mean if he changed his zoning will he have to get a variance to be in compliance.

Director Weaver stated, we haven’t always done it that way, no. I know that question has been brought up in the past. I don’t know the answer to that. Jerry?

Attorney Altman stated, I think you’d need a variance. Yes I think he’d need a variance to allow it in there.

Dave Scott stated, so if, even if we change the zoning, he’s out of compliance until he gets his…

Attorney Altman stated, that’s something that the courts can disagree with me on and allow it in there Dave. Might find out that’s not a fundamental problem to let him do it in there.

President Charles Anderson asked, what do the Commissioners think about if we left it a B-2 and allowed him to park his garbage truck in there cause it’s really not written up, as long as he’s not transferring anything…

Norma Crew stated, well he’s already got a junkyard, and a pallet business, and now a garbage trucks, and all of this is in a residential area and all of us in the neighborhood don’t want it.

John Mitchell asked, was it there when you moved. Was it all there, was that junkyard there when you moved there Mrs. Crew?

Norma Crew stated, yes it was.

John Mitchell stated, by golly. I wouldn’t have moved there then if I’d been a junk yard next to me. I’d left.

Norma Crew stated, well we came up here to a meeting and it was supposedly that if you added anymore there would be a fence go up around it and that hasn’t happened and it has grown and we have been quiet about it.

John Mitchell stated, it’s grown. Where?

Norma Crew stated, you straightened it up.

John Mitchell stated, it shrunk, it shrunk.

President Charles Anderson stated, we don’t need an argument over there.

John Mitchell stated, okay.

Norma Crew stated, you straightened it up but it has not shrunk, it has grown.

President Charles Anderson asked, any other Commissioners have any questions about this request or…

Vice President Dave Rosenbarger stated, I don’t have a problem with what you’re talking about other than it goes back to the simple fact driver comes in tired one night and leaves it sit outside, then you’ve got upset neighbors again. And theirs nothing they can do about. Ends up the truck sits out overnight or sits out over the weekend. What’s the neighbors do?

President Charles Anderson asked, as far as changing the zoning or allowing him to leave it as is?

Vice President Dave Rosenbarger stated, no, you were talking about leaving it the way it is and say okay you can park it inside.

Dave Scott stated, it wouldn’t matter if it was B-2 or I-2, he’d still have the same issue if they left it out of his I-2.

Vice President Dave Rosenbarger stated, I-2 he can leave it out.

Dave Scott stated, well yeah, see, so.

Vice President Dave Rosenbarger stated, but he was talking about leave it B-2. But give him a special thing to park it inside.

Dave Scott stated, if we leave it B-2, that puts more regulations on him which would probably make the people around him a little bit happier, but he would still be able to run his garbage truck.

Vice President Dave Rosenbarger stated, I don’t understand what you mean by more restrictions leaving it B-2.

Dave Scott stated, well because then, you wouldn’t be a station where trucks are coming in there and offloading and reloading and sorting cardboard and doing this and so on and so forth because that would be more of an industrial.

Vice President Dave Rosenbarger stated, but even if you did that on an I-2 you’d have to have a special exception because it becomes a transfer station.

John Mitchell stated, I don’t want to be a transfer station.

Vice President Dave Rosenbarger stated, that’s what were talking about here is…

John Mitchell stated, no, I mean, that takes special stuff and that’s something else you have to go thru and no I don’t want to do that.

Vice President Dave Rosenbarger stated, I don’t have a problem with it being inside the barn out of sight all the time but we’ve run into this before where they all the sudden don’t stay inside the barn, and then what’s the neighbors do?

Member of the audience stated, that’s right.

Vice President Dave Rosenbarger stated, you know if there’s something in it, you can put a little bite in it that it stays inside, that’s great. But we’ve had it happen before where we kind of done things like that and 3 months down the road 6 months down the road it's… You have one day a week you want to run right John?

John Mitchell stated, right now.

Vice President Dave Rosenbarger stated, and your, as it is right now?

John Mitchell stated, yeah, yeah, maybe if it works out I’ll buy some ground on the other side of the river and move over there.

Renee Horn stated, my name is Renee Horn I live half way between Mr. Mitchell and Liberty Landfill. I work at Buffalo School. I have to say the truck situation in Buffalo is really bad as it is now and I’m concerned about any more trucks. I mean, there are times when you can’t, I work as I say at Buffalo School. There are times that you can’t, you have to back up to allow these big trucks to turn. There are deer hit constantly along that this road and these trucks really haul. I was rear ended about 4 years ago by a waste management truck in Illinois and I am terrified of these trucks and I don’t want to see anymore trucks coming into our area.

President Charles Anderson stated, yeah I don’t know how you can limit something like that, with the expansion of the county and expansion of the world there’s always going to be more trucks.

Renee Horn stated, yeah, but our area, we’ve got a lot of trucks that come into our area specifically and I don’t know how many Mr. Mitchell wants to add, right now he’s talking 1 truck, but who knows. As he says, you start off 1 then the next thing you know you got 3, 5, and its difficult. We’ve got trucks coming from Illinois I know and everything as it is and it is a safety situation and a truck concern. The traffic concern in our town is bad. So.

Dave Scott stated, but that’s a state thing isn’t it, more than our thing?

President Charles Anderson stated, yeah you got a landfill out there and the landfills going to be used whether he adds more trucks to it or whether somebody else adds more trucks to it, I don’t see how you can control that.

John Mitchell stated, I think they’ve added 2 new companies already hauling trucks in there semis.

President Charles Anderson asked, any other commissions have any thoughts on this?

Jim Mann Jr. asked, would it be appropriate to table this to allow Jerry to do some study of the B-2 verses the I-2 and ramifications of that?

Attorney Altman stated, be glad to do that.

President Charles Anderson stated, all in...

Jim Mann Jr. stated, I’ll make a motion to that effect then.

Dave Scott stated, I’ll second it.

President Charles Anderson stated, okay, were going to have a hand vote on that, all in favor raise your right hand, it looks like it was unanimous. Table this to the next meeting.

John Mitchell stated, next meeting, I’ll get a notice to the next meeting?

Attorney Altman stated, nope this is it.

John Mitchell stated, oh, what is the next meeting?

Attorney Altman stated, and that will be when Diann? May I have the ballots back please?

Director Weaver stated, the next meeting is August 13th.

President Charles Anderson stated, you can have a seat John.

John Mitchell asked, when is it Diann?

Director Weaver stated, August 13th.

John Mitchell stated, August 13th?

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#314 David Wagner; Requesting secondary approval of a 2 lot subdivision to be known as Fernway Subdivision, on that part of the Northeast Quarter of the Southwest Quarter of Section 5, Township 27 North, Range 3 West in Liberty Township, containing 1.022 Acres, located in Liberty Township. The property is located East of Silver Camp and South of Lake Road 37 E. at 4538 E. Lake Road 37 E.

President Charles Anderson asked, do we have anybody here representing that request? Want to come forward and state your name?

David Wagner stated, yeah, I’m David Wagner.

President Charles Anderson stated, did we ask you to add 10 foot to the…

David Wagner stated, 10 foot right-of-way on the North edge of the property along with a 10 foot utility easement on the North edge and on the West edge, which should have in front of you.

President Charles Anderson asked, the commissioners have any questions about that request at all or any questions about this, the subdivision. It’s met all the…the, doesn’t have to be any improvements or anything to it?

Director Weaver stated, no, no, the improvements are already there, the sewer is not in the area yet, correct? Or the sewer is in the area.

David Wagner stated, there is a grinder on 4538, but there isn’t…

Director Weaver stated, right, but the line is already run across the road, correct? Yeah, so.

David Wagner stated, everybody’s grinded up in there, yeah.

Director Weaver stated, I don’t believe there’s any improvements that are necessary. We did receive some additional information from the neighbors since the last meeting and the board has copies of that information.

President Charles Anderson asked, what was it?

Director Weaver stated, yeah.

Attorney Altman stated, is this what you copied?

President Charles Anderson asked, is it about the private road?

Attorney Altman stated, and what Diann is talking about it looks to me like, a copy of the information that’s received off the county webpage, the plexis group webpage, for the area being questioned, it also shows, the second page, is a notice where an Richard L. and Betty Seacrest received or signed for a by Carol Malcolm a, a Carol Malcolm also received notice of this and then the third page going down looks like it’s a copy off of the transfer books at the auditor’s office in here in White County and then the last one is an apparent copy of the plat of that subdivision that adjoins this area on to the west I believe, basically right on as you look at them.

Don Ward stated, oh, I didn’t look at that.

Gerald Cartmell stated, Silver Camp.

Attorney Altman asked, Denny is that what you understand it, the display, as an engineer I’m sure you’ve seen this more.

Dennis Sterrett stated, yeah, he’s right adjacent to that.

Don Ward stated, yeah, we agreed to…

President Charles Anderson stated, yeah, there were two private drives running side by side…

Don Ward stated, they’d eventually go together and make 40 feet and what we asked for was 10 more feet.

President Charles Anderson stated, 10 more feet and he did that for us and the 10 foot utility easement. I think he’s met the requirements we asked him to do. So I’d say lets go ahead and vote on that, this is for the…

Steve Malcom stated, my names Steve Malcolm, Steve and Carol Malcolm, I own 6 acres just to the north of that. I own the, or access, I have no idea what I actually own on that road, that 38 North. I don’t know exactly what’s being petitioned here because you mailed the stuff to my old address which doesn’t seem to get to me. If you look at that address, the first I saw that today 3104 Edgecreek Drive, that’s where you’re still mailing for some reason, so I was unaware of the first meeting. I don’t know what happened at the last meeting because he didn’t read the records but I was led to believe I hadn’t paid taxes on that property. I find that hard to believe. I’m pretty upstanding person. So I am at a loss…

President Charles Anderson stated, I don’t ever remember that being brought up at all.

Steve Malcolm stated, I was just told, I don’t know. I don’t know what’s going on with the road. He had called and asked me if it was okay to use the road and I told him I needed to get a legal opinion on how it would affect my other property.

President Charles Anderson stated, he’s not actually wanting to use your other road. He has his own road. If the county ever wanted to come in and put a county road in there they need a 50 foot right-of-way. Well you’ve got a 20 foot private drive, he’s got a 20 foot private drive, he’s adding 10 foot to it so that if you ever wanted to improve that road one of the county would take it over. The county could take it over. They won’t take over a 20 foot road.

Steve Malcolm stated, I just want to know what my obligations are and my liabilities that this would go thru and I’m a little curious about use.

President Charles Anderson stated, all that shows is that private drive going thru there. It’s not really his property on that, but it shows there would be a 50 foot easement that could be utilized by the county if the county ever wanted to use that.

Steve Malcolm stated, they have the capacity that they could do that right now, regardless.

President Charles Anderson stated, you guys would have to get the county to take it over.

Steve Malcolm stated, no, but I’m just curious. Assuming this goes thru then am I signing anything saying that they can take it or is it something that they can take by evident domain?

President Charles Anderson stated, no, you can’t, you’d have to agree to it.

Steve Malcolm stated, I guess that’s what I’m looking at, it looks to me like the way that road goes thru you’re cutting into one of my lots besides where the road is to go to where that road makes its turn 37 East. Where 37 East makes its turn is well into my property beside the, besides the access.

President Charles Anderson asked, whereabouts is that that you’re talking about?

Steve Malcolm stated, well 37 East and 37 West or 37 East and 38 East, I’m 38 East.

President Charles Anderson asked, could you show us. Somebody want to show him…

Steve Malcolm stated, sure, I’d like to see what you got anyway.

Steve Malcom and some of the board members reviewing the map.

Steve Malcolm stated, well I’m not going to do anything to diminish my property without having legal opinion and that’s why I’m here. There’s a potential that this diminishes the value of my property. That’s the only reason I’m here. I never received record other than the fact that this gentlemen had called me 1 time and I told him that, that I would have know, I would have to get legal advice as far as whether it was diminishment of my assets. In the meantime now I don’t know if that was prevailed or not. Until I have a legal opinion that this is not going to affect me, I don’t see why I would want to sign off on it. I thought I made that relatively clear.

David Wagner stated, you did. You’re not signing off on anything.

Don Ward stated, you’re not signing off, you’re not doing anything.

David Wagner stated, there not affecting you whatsoever by what I’m doing here, it’s not having any effect on you. All I’m doing is saying that they wanted 10 feet over here so if it ever happened they’d have 50, they’ve got it. I gave them 10 feet of my own property.

President Charles Anderson asked, what are you wanting to do with your property back in there anyway?

Steve Malcolm stated, that’s a ? question. I had originally intended on building a really nice house for me and my wife and we built a little bigger house up in Frankfort which has delayed the process. However I have been approached by a couple different sellers who tend to think that there’d be different applications.

President Charles Anderson stated, if you’d have different applications you’d need a 50 foot right-of-way to get in there.

Steve Malcolm stated, I don’t dispute that one eye open. I mean it’s already divided into 9 lots. But, I’m not down here trying to stop or anything, I’m just getting a lot…

President Charles Anderson stated, this would benefit you more than be a disadvantage to you.

Steve Malcolm stated, I just want to know.

President Charles Anderson stated, but you’re really not signing off on anything.

Dave Scott stated, actually he’s kind of saving you 5 feet cause he’s taking the 10 feet all on his side.

Steve Malcolm stated, I’ m just down here for information. I didn’t come down for or you know I mean, I was not given the other information because you had my mail, part of you got my address right, part of it you don’t, I don’t know how that works. I’ve been down several times here to discuss it with them and apparently it’s still not all the way fixed, but it’s half fixed. So.

President Charles Anderson stated, if you plan on developing, what he’s doing by adding 10 feet is improving your part of it.

Steve Malcolm stated, that’s wonderful I mean.

President Charles Anderson stated, because if you ever decided to do a subdivision you’d have to have a 50 foot right-of-way into it too.

Steve Malcolm stated, well, but then, what about the rest of away from the edge of his lot in that case the edge of my lot all the way out to the road.

President Charles Anderson stated, you know, that’s something we can’t change. Those other people would have to do that, right now its private drive going thru there.

Steve Malcolm stated, right.

President Charles Anderson stated, okay, we can’t force them into…

Steve Malcolm stated, right, and I can develop my…

President Charles Anderson stated, for the county to take, the county, I don’t even know if the county’s taking over that road, they may have already taken over that road for a lesser amount. Do you fill your own road or you take care of your own road or?

Steve Malcolm stated, nothing really to take care of. You drive on it. Although they put a hole in it when they were doing it.

President Charles Anderson stated, but the people up beyond that would have to, if the county took it over, they would have to give part of their property’s to extend the 50 foot right-of-way out of there. But were trying to get away from is having all these private roads around there that the county can’t take over.

Don Ward stated, what we think will happen is that eventually the two private drives will go together and make a 40 foot road. The county can , once the road is, once it was joined together and the road brought up to standard, the county can then take it over and you guys would have no problem with it from there on. It would be the county’s responsibility. We think that will happen in the future. We can’t force the issue right now, so in order to rezone this or let this subdivision go in there we took 10 more feet, we assume this will happen. It’s almost a certainty that it will in time. It may be several years down the road before it happens.

Steve Malcolm stated, well I just don’t want to get an assessment because someone decided to..

President Charles Anderson stated, it isn’t changing your property at all right now. Do we have another question back here too?

Dick Secrest stated, yeah. I’m Dick Secrest. I want to see the drawings he brought up.

Members of the board reviewing the pictures with Dick Secrest.

Dick Secrest stated, the utilities are all in our road right now. We have the cable, the television, and the gas line runs up our line and thru the center of where he wants to cut this off is where the power line, R.E.M.C. comes thru.

President Charles Anderson stated, he’s not going to cut anything off, all he’s going to use the road that’s out there.

Dave Scott stated, according to this map, he’s giving 10 feet of his property for a utility easement. Now whether their in there or not, we can’t tell. But he’s giving 10 feet of his property for utility easement.

Dick Secrest stated, it makes a jog in the road.

President Charles Anderson stated, any other questions? Anybody in the audience.

Steve Malcolm stated, I guess I’m a little bit behind on information that’s my biggest concern. As long as you assure me theirs no other liabilities that are going to come my way.

President Charles Anderson stated, he’s going to, his lots are going to be run on his private drive and yours on your private drive. Were not adding your private drive to this other than it can be if it could be a possibility later on a 50 easement thru there because you got 20 foot and he’s got 20 foot and he’s adding 10 to it.

Steve Malcolm stated, my 20 feet’s mine as I understand it and the other 20 feet is whoever’s that whole subdivision beside me right? And I guess I’m looking, I know it’s expensive to make that road to where it would be acceptable. I don’t know what you processes are here as far as acceptability in a conversion to a subdivision and what requirements are for the road. And if those requirements are allowed to be past back to the property owners. You follow me?

President Charles Anderson stated, that would be if you petitioned to have that turned into a county road. You guys would have to bring it up if you…

Don Ward stated, you have to do that, nobody’s going to make you do it. You have to do it.

Steve Malcolm stated, okay. Did you understand my point?

Members of the board stated, yeah.

Steve Malcolm stated, that’s a hundred thousand dollar road if I had to redo it. I’m I’m, I don’t think I’m missing that one by to much.

Don Ward stated, no-ones going to make you do it. They don’t care if you drive over a sand road, that’s your business. But if you want the county to take over it then you have to bring it up to standard. Which someday probably will happen. Land will be more valuable and their will be more building sites. It will be worth it to them to do it and that’s when they’ll do it.

Steve Malcolm asked, the 10 feet he’s giving is on the south side of me. Or, the other side. Then I’d assume then whoever owns that land on the south side the rest of the distance out, that’s agricultural right now. You’d have to get that from him

President Charles Anderson stated, you’d have to have permission from everybody along there to put in a, change over to county.

Dave Scott stated , but if we don’t do it now, we allow this subdivision which won’t allow with it, a 20 foot road.

President Charles Anderson stated, well, were not doing anything. All were doing is saying that there is a possibility that there could be a 50 foot county road thru there at some point. But everybody along there would have to petition to have that done. I mean, you’ve got your own rights not to…

Steve Malcolm stated, well, I mean, the whole issue, if I had more time to be prepared I probably wouldn’t be wasting your time. That’s the only reason I’m asking this question is because, I have, this is very short notice for me. Then the only other issue I would have is what, what is the development of the property for? Is it zoned for another residential, or?

President Charles Anderson asked, do you want to respond to that? He can respond to that.

David Wagner stated, we’re petitioning for R-2. Is that what it’s called.

President Charles Anderson stated, which is residential.

David Wagner stated, so it’s 2 residential lots instead of 1, and I want to split it in half because my wife and my sister in law want to plant bushes and flowers over there. I want to sell that house off.

Steve Malcolm stated, R-2 in Illinois at least is a multi-family. Is that the case here or not?

David Wagner stated, R-2 is 2 units per acre in Illinois. In Frankfort and Orland and everywhere around there.

Steve Malcolm stated, well, I’m almost positive R-2 is multi-family.

David Wagner stated, R-5 is 5 units per Acre, R-6 is 6 per acre, R-1 is…

Director Weaver stated, R-2 here will allow one single family or a duplex.

Steve Malcolm stated, that’s the duplex, that’s exactly what I was saying. R-2 would be allowed to be a duplex on that property.

David Wagner stated, I’m not, I’m not going to build something on this property. There’s nothing I’m going to build in the foreseeable future.

Steve Malcolm asked, does it matter if it’s zoned R-1 or R-2 or is the lot to small to be zoned R-1?

Director Weaver stated, no, it could be zoned R-1, but he has not done that. He has rezoned it to R-2.

Steve Malcolm stated, that, the multi-family would be my issue I guess. I’m not looking for fights but R-2 is exactly, its multi-family, and that’s a duplex.

President Charles Anderson stated, which is his right to petition for that too though, so.

Steve Malcolm stated, as long as that, I don’t know what your terms are, again, I feel bad I’m not prepared. I would have a lawyer here if I thought that, I thought this was, I would have more information, so again, I regret asking these questions, but I know R-2 allows multi-family, duplex. So that’s what I’m looking at. Is there other R-2 in the area, is there any other?

Attorney Altman stated, the issue is, the issues you’re talking about is out of the control of this board.

President Charles Anderson stated, well it’s not out of…

Attorney Altman stated, if this meets the standards of the subdivision control ordinance we approve it. That’s all there is to it.

David Wagner asked, does it meet the standards? I mean, the lot on the lake there’s 25 foot lots. You know 25 foot widths. Whether I put, and I’m not going to, put a duplex on a 125 by 200 foot lot, whatever it works out to be, I forget, it’s certainly going to be less dense than 5 25 foot lots along the lake.

Steve Malcolm stated, well obviously, you’re off the lake. I mean, I’ve got 5 lakes that are off, lots that are off…

David Wagner stated, I understand, I…

Steve Malcolm stated, this affects me down the road, that’s why it is very important that I have the correct answers now. It directly affects how I sell mine.

President Charles Anderson stated, and that’s what he’s petitioned for is an R-2 and if it meets all the standards of the subdivision then it does have to go thru, I mean, we do have to pass it. Unless there was some problem with health issues or something thru the area there.

Steve Malcolm stated, no, and again, it’s because I’m not sure of the law here I’m much more comfortable in Illinois.

President Charles Anderson stated, but he could put a duplex on it.

Steve Malcolm stated, an R-2 in Illinois, you normally don’t get a R-2 variance with other R-1’s and, but, again, I don’t know those rules and if it doesn’t affect you guys I would think that, well we would know an answer. Is and R-1 or R-2 either one is available for him so he could petition for either.

Attorney Altman stated, no. It’s zoned R-2.

Director Weaver stated, it’s already zoned.

Steve Malcolm stated, R-2.

Director Weaver stated, R-2.

Steve Malcolm stated, so it’s a mute point then. That’s all I was looking for. I thought he was zoned an R-2 out of the…

Members of the board stated, no.

Jim Mann Jr. stated, no, he’s just going for the subdivision.

Steve Malcolm stated, I’m not trying to cause trouble, this is just, I’m getting very little information.

Jim Mann Jr. stated, sounds like it.

Steve Malcolm stated, well no, I’m coming here with very no information and so needless to say I want to have accurate information.

Jim Mann Jr. stated, I’m sure you’re going to have a lot of questions at some point and time down the road when all the neighbors…

President Charles Anderson stated, but it’s already zoned R-2 and he meets the, that was done before, that was something, we didn’t just rezone it or anything.

Steve Malcolm stated, that’s fine. I’m very, I mean, I don’t even know how mine is zoned. My back lots, I don’t know if it’s zoned R-1, R-2, I really didn’t care. I initially buying one piece. And I suspect it will be a different developer that’s going to be talking to you on mine because somebody wants it. Thank You.

President Charles Anderson stated, any other commissioners have any questions at all? Anybody else in the audience have any questions? If not, Id say lets go ahead and vote. Is this for a …

Director Weaver stated, secondary.

President Charles Anderson stated, you sure primary…

Director Weaver stated, secondary, primary was last month.

President Charles Anderson stated, what does this say, have I got the wrong…

Attorney Altman stated, secondary.

The Secondary Approval request for a subdivision to be known as Fernway Subdivision was approved by a vote of 8 to 0, based on a finding of fact that the Standards of the Subdivision Control Ordinance have been met.

****

#315 Mitchell A. & Renee C. Juris; Requesting secondary approval of a 6 lot subdivision to be known as The Pines, on 2.632 Acres, part N ½ 16-27-3. The property is located in Union Township, North of Monticello, west of East Shafer Drive and on the north side of Neininger Drive.

President Charles Anderson asked, do we have anybody here representing that request?

Mitch Juris stated, I’m Mitch Juris.

President Charles Anderson asked, you have anybody in the audience that has any questions about this request? Commissioners have any questions about this request?

Director Weaver stated, I might just add that since the last meeting we do have drainage approval on this subdivision. Did you have a question for me?

President Charles Anderson stated, no my only question was this. This was existing lot right here. This is the 50 foot going thru there. What about this part here?

Director Weaver stated, it’s existing.

President Charles Anderson asked, no other improvements besides this?

Director Weaver stated, no I don’t believe so. Sewers are not in this area yet correct?

Mitch Juris stated, they are on the first lot, which is considered my house. So I would have to put in the grinding chambers in, it runs across….

Director Weaver stated, so this property is on the sewer system.

Mitch Juris stated, oh yeah.

Director Weaver stated, okay. I’ve had too many I’m dealing with. Can’t keep things straight.

President Charles Anderson asked, any other questions about this? From the commissioners? I’d say lets go ahead and vote.

Dave Scott asked, what’s the minimum lot size for this zoning?

Director Weaver stated, minimum lot size for R-2 zoning is 6,000 square feet for a single family home.

The Secondary Approval request for a subdivision to be known as The Pines Subdivision was approved by a vote of 8 to 0, based on a finding of fact that the Standards of the Subdivision Control Ordinance have been met.

****

#316 Don Echterling, Echterling Builders, Inc; Requesting secondary approval of a 14 lot subdivision to be known as Echo Lane Estates, on 5.87 Acres, part N ½ 32-28-3. The property is located in Monon Township, North of Lowes Bridge and on the South side of West Shafer Drive. Between Lake Road 51 W. and Lake Road 52 W.

President Charles Anderson asked, do we have anybody here representing that request?

Jim White stated, Jim White Vester and Associates Land Surveyors Engineers Lafayette.

President Charles Anderson asked, do we have anybody here with any questions about that request at all? The commissioners have any questions about the request at all?

Director Weaver stated, the board should have 2 plats. One for the layout of the lots, which is actually the secondary plat and then one shows the utilities and how they will be installed. The girls had some confusion on that when they were doing the packets.

Dennis Sterrett stated, we got this in a second packet.

Director Weaver stated, pardon me.

Dennis Sterrett stated, we got this in a second packet.

President Charles Anderson stated, yes.

Director Weaver stated, yes.

President Charles Anderson asked, is it in that envelope? Or does it need any improvements or anything?

Director Weaver stated, it does need improvements. Yes. And you have an estimate.

President Charles Anderson asked, are they going to put…

Director Weaver stated, this subdivision does have improvements that must be installed and you do have an estimate in your packet for the installation of those improvements.

President Charles Anderson asked, what do we do as far as a note in the bank.

Attorney Altman stated, basically he either puts them in or he post bond. Or letter of credit Doc.

President Charles Anderson asked, do we have to have a letter of credit?

Attorney Altman stated, huh?

President Charles Anderson stated, do we have to have a letter of credit?

Attorney Altman stated, not now.

President Charles Anderson stated, okay.

Attorney Altman stated, no, no.

Director Weaver stated, not if he installs them first, but we don’t record the plat until they’re installed though.

Attorney Altman stated, or they give us a letter of credit.

Director Weaver stated, right.

President Charles Anderson asked, any questions about the subdivision, secondary approval.

Director Weaver stated, Jim, how far is the road? I know he was going to start on it. Did you start on the road at all?

Don Echterling stated, I’ve got the stone in, yes and were getting asphalt in right now.

Director Weaver stated, are you going to request this be taken over by the county for the road? Because I had a discussion with the Highway Superintendent and I believe Jerry there’s a note in the front of the folder and I believe that he requests that the asphalt not be put in until all the construction is done within the subdivision.

Don Echterling stated, well I’ve talked to him and he, yeah, he request we put a 2 inch miter down and hold off on the 1 inch surface for 3 years until most of construction traffic is done but I have news for him. In 3 years most of the construction traffic isn’t going to be done. I’m not expecting most of those lots to be sold in 3 years.

Director Weaver stated, well his concern is that, the county takes it over and the construction equipment comes in and tears it up and then the county expense.

Don Echterling stated, right, and 3 years is kind of a standard procedure.

President Charles Anderson asked, any other questions?

Attorney Altman stated, yes. That note is in the file.

Director Weaver stated, okay. I thought that’s where I put it.

President Charles Anderson stated, but those improvements have to be put in before it’s…

Director Weaver stated, the way this works, he either has to post a letter of credit with us in order to record the plat or the improvements have to be installed before the plat is recorded. One or the other.

President Charles Anderson stated, I’d say lets go ahead and vote.

The Secondary Approval request for a subdivision to be known as Echo Lane Estates Subdivision was approved by a vote of 8 to 0, based on a finding of fact that the Standards of the Subdivision Control Ordinance have been met.

Attorney Altman stated, the improvements must be in before the blacktop, the final blacktop is put on there as the County Superintendent has requested.

****

#317 Gary A. Creigh, Kimberly L. Brown-Creigh, and William Misenheimer; Requesting secondary approval of a 6 lot subdivision to be known as KGB Estates, on 7.373 Acres, part NE NE 4-26-3. The property is located in City of Monticello at 504 & 506 Tioga Road.

President Charles Anderson asked, do we have anybody here representing that request? You want to come forward and state your name.

Bill Misenheimer stated, I’ll come up and take my whooping.

President Charles Anderson asked, did you shut your phone off?

Bill Misenheimer stated, yeah, as soon as I learned how to do it. Bill Misenheimer. And Mike, I would like to put a hog farm next to my house. Everybody keeps picking on you guys.

Mike Smolek stated, you better check with IDEM as close as you are to the lake.

President Charles Anderson stated, that one guy didn’t want to fight, he just wanted to have his lawyer here. Anybody in the audience have any questions about the request? If not, anybody, the Commissioners have any questions about the request?

Director Weaver stated, I might state that the improvements are already in; they have already been installed so there is no letter of credit necessary.

Attorney Altman stated, they been inspected and or meet standards, the city surveyor.

Director Weaver stated, I can’t answer that one; you’re going to have to ask him that. Have the improvements been inspected by the city?

Bill Misenheimer stated, somebody’s been out there, I’m not sure who was out there.

Attorney Altman stated, you ought to get a certification, otherwise we need a letter of credit okay.

Bill Misenheimer stated, oh, okay.

Attorney Altman stated, that’s all I’m really trying to say. We don’t need a letter of credit if it gets certified.

Bill Misenheimer stated, okay, I can do that.

President Charles Anderson asked, is there any other questions about the request? If not, I’d say lets go ahead and vote.

The Secondary Approval request for a subdivision to be known as KGB Subdivision was approved by a vote of 8 to 0, based on a finding of fact that the Standards of the Subdivision Control Ordinance have been met.

****

President Charles Anderson stated, next would be, on the agenda I believe is business, right, no we’ve got a fine.

Director Weaver stated, an appeal.

President Charles Anderson stated, an appeal of a fine on there. Where did my agenda go?

Director Weaver stated, I don’t know but you can use mine.

Dave Scott asked, what’d we ever do with the dog lady?

Director Weaver stated, I’ll update you after we handle this appeal.

President Charles Anderson stated, okay, then the appeal of the fine from the Calvary Temple of Monticello Inc. Do we have somebody here representing that request? You want to come forward and state your name.

Pastor Steve Smith stated, I’m Pastor Steve Smith.

President Charles Anderson asked, and Diann do you want to go over a little bit on what went down on this?

Director Weaver stated, yeah. We received a complaint that the church was selling fireworks. At that time, at the time we received the complaint there was no evidence of this happening. We did keep an eye on the property and we received another complaint stating that they now had a display out, sign, and banner and everything.

President Charles Anderson stated, banners.

Director Weaver stated, so we did go out, we took pictures, we sent a letter, both certified and regular mail to the church. We got no response from that letter. Therefore I turned this over to our attorney and he actually filed suit on this case and when the church received, when they were served papers by the Sheriff’s Department is when we got response. They ceased with the activities, with the sales and everything the day that he called me and told me that they would stop. And I haven’t seen any activity. Matter of fact I think he told me they were going to move besides Cato’s and I believe they have done so. So I guess that’s where we stand.

Pastor Steve Smith stated, I apologize. It was ignorance on my part. We went to the State, we went Homeland Security, Fire Marshal, did everything we thought we were supposed to do. I’ve only been here in this area since September, and I wasn’t aware. Because it was just a fundraiser, totally fundraiser, and it was a large investment from the Church and so we were kind of frantic because we made a pretty good investment just as a fundraiser. None of the staff is on full time, we all have jobs, including myself. So, were not a large congregation. So to take a big loss was kind of the frightening thing, but we found somebody to work with us and we moved over next to Cato’s. So I not only wanted to apologize for my ignorance but and as far as the delay we’re much more organized now. Like I said I’ve only been here since September, the former pastor was Pastor Shafer and he was, he passed away last July and he went to the post office once a week and got the mail and was very regular about that. Like I say, I have an occupation and so I haven’t been very good about that. And so we now have somebody assigned to pick up our mail on a regular basis so that we don’t miss things like this and I do apologize for the time delay in that.

President Charles Anderson asked, so you hadn’t actually picked up the letter?

Pastor Steve Smith stated, no. No, there was a delay in that.

President Charles Anderson asked, how many days had it been between the time you sent that.

Vice President Dave Rosenbarger, stated, well they sent it back, unaccepted.

President Charles Anderson stated, oh it was sent back.

Director Weaver stated, yeah, the certified letter was never picked up.

Vice President Dave Rosenbarger stated, they only keep them so many days and then they send them back.

Director Weaver stated, we sent the letter on June 5th.

President Charles Anderson asked, but would that have gone to a post office box then?

Director Weaver stated, and on June 15th is when Pastor Smith called the office.

Don Ward stated, I make a motion we waive the fine.

Jim Mann Jr. stated, I’ll second.

President Charles Anderson stated, all in favor raise your right hand. Opposed. I guess it was unanimous I don’t know.

Gerald Cartmell stated, I didn’t vote.

President Charles Anderson stated, well with 1 abstention. So that’s 7 for and 1 abstention. So I’d say the fine will be waived on that.

Pastor Steve Smith stated, thank you and I apologize again.

President Charles Anderson asked, any other new business?

Director Weaver stated, the dogs. The last I can tell you about the dogs.

Don Ward stated, well their gone, I know that.

Director Weaver stated, well not completely. She is in compliance as long as she gets rid of the 14 puppies she has in the basement.

Don Ward stated, I was up there the other day and I didn’t hear anything but…

Director Weaver stated, I was told Friday by a neighbor that there are 2 adult dogs still on the property and a litter of 14 puppies, they’re all in the basement, they’re all inside.

Don Ward stated, so how much did we end up fining her?

Director Weaver stated, well I have not received anything from her at this point I have not done anything with the fine because I was bringing it back to you to get your decision on what you wanted to do. I am no longer getting replies to my phone calls. I called her…

Don Ward stated, well I know they’re in 3 counties right now.

Gerald Cartmell stated, that’s the same way your going to get reply’s to your money.

Don Ward stated, well that’s what I’m saying because she don’t own the property she just has to walk away from that contract so how do you enforce the fine.

Director Weaver stated, I even called the property owner Friday because of concerns about the dogs that are there.

Don Ward asked, so do you put the fine against the property or..

Gerald Cartmell stated, it’s a judgment against the property.

Director Weaver stated, I believe she had the dogs out within, I’m going to, I don’t have an answer right here, but within 5 days of what you guys said she had to have them out. I think they weren’t out by the day you said but they were out shortly after that.

Don Ward asked, but didn’t we give her 2 more days last time?

Director Weaver stated, you did, yeah.

Don Ward stated, and like I said, if she didn’t quite make it don’t tell us.

Director Weaver stated, that’s why I haven’t done anything with the fine.

Vice President Dave Rosenbarger asked, are they gone now though?

Director Weaver stated, well most of them are gone, they’re not completely gone, no. But like I said, I’m not getting any replies to her or to the owner of the property.

Jim Mann Jr. asked, have you had any complaints from the property owners?

Director Weaver stated, no I have not.

President Charles Anderson stated, if it continues though and the property owners still putting up with it, then I’d say we’d have to fine her if she’s going to continue…

Director Weaver stated, well the puppies are ok until they’re 6 months old. If there still there when they are 6 months old then were right back where we were. But the concern from the neighbors Friday was that they don’t know those dogs were being cared for. And that’s why I tried to call the property owner and I thought I’d get a response from her but I did not.

Mike Smolek stated, when I was up there Thursday I didn’t see anybody around.

Director Weaver stated, see and that’s what the neighbors said to that they hadn’t seen anyone coming or going unless they were coming during the night. And I, I don’t know.

President Charles Anderson stated, if you hear something like that you probably ought to turn that over to animal control.

Director Weaver stated, well, that crossed my mind, is that what you want me to do.

President Charles Anderson stated yeah, I think I would. See if there’s anything left in there.

Director Weaver stated, if they can get in.

President Charles Anderson asked, do you guys agree with it? If they can get in. Sure they can get in.

Director Weaver stated, that’s why I tried to call the property owner because I thought she probably had a key.

Dave Scott stated, now if we call Animal Control and she’s allowed to have 4 there or whatever is that going to get us into hot water?


President Charles Anderson stated, not really.


Director Weaver stated, well were just calling because of concern for the animals.

Don Ward stated, were calling because there not being cared for.

Dave Scott asked, but do we have a, actually have a complaint or concerned citizen signing…

Director Weaver stated, I think the neighbors would give us a complaint.

Dave Scott stated, yeah, somebody would have to sign off on it, we can’t just…

Director Weaver stated, I think they were truly concerned for the animals as well.

President Charles Anderson stated, but you…

Gerald Cartmell stated, it’s to late now, if that’s the case, the party’s over.

Director Weaver stated, that’s what I’m afraid of too as hot as it was.

Mike Smolek stated, I don’t think she’s running her air conditioning.

President Charles Anderson stated, I wouldn’t think the property owners would want to leave that there.


Director Weaver stated, the other things that I have on the agenda are updates on our lawsuits for Spears and Boyrs. Boyrs I can tell you that we asked for an extension on the time because I couldn’t get my information to Jerry for us to respond but Spears I don’t know where that stands. Where’s that stand Jerry?

Attorney Altman stated, basically we got service on Spears about a month, about 2 weeks ago and I’m waiting to, if they don’t enter an appearance, a general appearance, file a motion to default. And I’ll tell you that Spear essential, what really happened is, is we sent out at least one summons and 3 or 4 alias summons’s, that’s what you do when you don’t get the first when you call them and alias summons. I got the alias number 6 or 4. Okay. An alias number 3 when the Sheriff didn’t serve it, I asked Diann, the only thing I could see we were going to get done is if we hired somebody to serve it. She said that would be fine because we were just spinning our wheels is what we were doing. So I called a attorney friend I had over there and said who does this sort of thing and does it well. I kind of gave him some background that we needed somebody that really adds some stick to it and I don’t mean that that process server in Howard County doesn’t do a good job because I found out later on that this guy who is the Prosecutors Office who I got to do it for me basically got lied to 3 times when he tried to serve it until the last time and he had everything in order and caught the guy at the desk and served it on him. So it wasn’t an easy job what we, when we finally got it done. So, that’s where we are right now. We do have service and it’s ready to go.

Gerald Cartmell asked, so did we ever decide what we are going do on the fines there on the dog. What is the fine right now?

Director Weaver stated, well it was $500.00 a day. Fine was imposed as 500, $500.00 a day and…

Gerald Cartmell asked, they extended it 2 days right?

Director Weaver stated, if not paid by June 5th, it was supposed to be a additional $50.00 per month.

President Charles Anderson asked, and she hasn’t paid anything?

Mike Smolek asked, but she hasn’t sent you the papers back saying she’s out yet right?


Director Weaver stated, I’ve had, verbally she called and talked to one of my girls, at that time she didn’t say that they were under 4 dogs, but she said by the next day they would be under 4 dogs. And that’s the last contact we’ve had from her. We’ve not gotten anything in writing from her.

Mike Smolek asked, I was going to say, is that written down anywhere?

Director Weaver stated, it is documented. We documented it in the office.

President Charles Anderson stated, so then, how many, we gave her an extra 2 days.

Attorney Altman stated, and she took 5.

Director Weaver stated, approximately, yeah.

President Charles Anderson, which would be, but we did leave her with that $500 fine.

Mike Smolek stated, so it was $500.00 plus $1500.00, so it would be $2000.00 what were looking at?

Gerald Cartmell stated, might as well be looking at a million because you’re not going to get a dime.

Director Weaver stated, no, it was $500.00 plus $50.00 a month, so you’re really looking at 1550, or 550, yeah 550.

President Charles Anderson asked, so how do we go about collecting?

Mike Smolek stated, I thought it was a hundred dollars a day though and she took 2 extra days…

Members of the board speaking

Director Weaver stated, you’re right, you’re right, on May 14th the rezoning went to the APC and was denied. She was told that the request was denied by the County Commissioners. On Monday May 21st, then she had 15 days to have the dogs removed or she would be fined $500.00 a day each day thereafter. You are correct, I’m sorry, I had forgotten about that.

Mike Smolek stated, well you gave her 2 extra days so then…

Director Weaver stated, the rezoning was denied. Yeah, so she had…

President Charles Anderson, 3 days at $500.00 a day.

Gerald Cartmell stated, $2050.00.

President Charles Anderson stated, because it’s been a month.

Don Ward stated, more than we’ll ever get out of her.

Attorney Altman stated, what you usually do to collect them is I start in, send her a letter basically demanding that, then you take her to small claims and push it on thru. And there’s where Diann… You may get the same thing, your, I’m not trying to be optimistic about this, however small claims collects quite a bit sometimes.

Mike Smolek stated, I don’t care so much about the $500.00 a day so much, that was just more of a motivational to, to get her to get stuff moved.

Gerald Cartmell stated, trying to get her attention.

Mike Smolek stated, yeah.

President Charles Anderson asked, so you guys want to stick with the $500.00 and $50.00 a month until she pays it off and see if we can get any of it.

Don Ward stated, yes.

President Charles Anderson asked, did I ever hear a motion on that? You want to make a motion that way.

Mike Smolek stated, I’ll make a motion we stick with the $500.00 initial fine plus $50.00 a month.

President Charles Anderson asked, any second on that?

Vice President Dave Rosenbarger stated, I’ll second that.

Don Ward stated, plus $50.00 a month.

Mike Smolek stated, yeah, isn’t that what it is. $50.00 a month.

President Charles Anderson stated, any…

Director Weaver stated, that’s the standard, that’s the way the policy is written yes.

President Charles Anderson stated, all in favor raise your right hand.

Don Ward stated, I’m more interested in the dogs being taken care of then the money.

President Charles Anderson stated, who’s all in favor of doing that?

Don Ward stated, I am.

Dennis Sterrett asked, what was the motion?

Members of the board stated, 500

Dennis Sterrett stated, 500.

President Charles Anderson stated, 500 plus 50. So theirs 1,2,3, 6 of us, 7 of us and 1 abstention again and that’s…

Gerald Cartmell stated, get it over with, we're not going to get it anyways, were wasting our time.

Attorney Altman stated, however it may keep somebody from trying to sneak in there and do it again.

President Charles Anderson stated, do it again.

Director Weaver stated, do you want the letter to come, do you want me to send her a letter stating this or…

Attorney Altman stated, I think that’d be a good idea.

Jim Mann Jr. stated, you have to go thru with the process. You can’t just give up.

Don Ward stated, you don’t want to set a precedence.

Director Weaver stated, well I didn’t know if you wanted the letter to come from Jerry or not. That’s why I was asking.

Gerald Cartmell stated, Dave and I got a lot of experience in these fines and it isn’t very good.

President Charles Anderson asked, so you want the letter to come from Diann or her lawyer?

Gerald Cartmell stated, pretty smart now though aren’t we?

Vice President Dave Rosenbarger stated, first it should come from Diann.

Director Weaver stated, that’s fine.

Mike Smolek stated, probably from Diann first, and then if she doesn’t hear anything back.

President Charles Anderson stated, and then Jerry before the next meeting is going to find out whether we can run, park a garbage truck inside a building on B-2.

Attorney Altman stated, that’s a good question Doc. See what the ordinance says.

Don Ward stated, why is that, why is the garbage truck any different than the dump truck or any other kind of truck.

Director Weaver stated, well, as I pointed out to Doc to, pallet refurbishing has to go in an I-2 or and I-2 zoning.

Don Ward stated, so he’s out of compliance.

Director Weaver stated, if he’s refurbishing. Which I don’t know if he actually stated he was refurbishing but if he’s refurbishing…

Don Ward stated, well he said the rest of this land’s grandfathered, so if he’s doing it over there.

Director Weaver stated, the junk yard is grandfathered.

Dave Scott stated, I think that’s where his pallets are too.

Director Weaver stated, I don’t know that the pallets have been there all this time.

Dave Scott stated, they’ve been there along time.


Director Weaver asked, have they? Okay.

Dave Scott stated, he’s, he’s always, I’ve known John a long time and he’s always dabbled in a little bit of everything and that’s what I said, if leaving it zoned B-2 would actually limit his dabbling a little bit more than if you put it industrial because then who knows what’s going to happen there. Being the boy scouts camp is right there. He’s not affecting anybody as far as road traffic because his, that’s, basically his road and he goes right to 39. He’s not going past anybody’s house.

Dennis Sterrett stated, that’s a private drive there I think.

Mike Smolek stated, that’s what I’m say, that’s his road, he takes care of it.

Jim Mann Jr. stated, I agree, I don’t think, if we can avoid going to an industrial zoning it’s a lot better.

Mike Smolek stated, I think that opens up more walls than anything else because knowing John he will use it to the full limit of his ability and it will be a dump site.

Dave Scott asked, what are we doing with this thing?

Director Weaver stated, we have to have our corrections in and if anybody wants a copy of that I still have some copies. We are supposed to review that.

Mike Smolek asked, how’s the process work?

Director Weaver stated, any corrections or comments or whatever that you want forwarded on you need to get to me or HNTB or John Heimlich by July 28th.

Don Ward stated, 27th.

Director Weaver asked, 7th? I was going to say 8th.

Don Ward stated, better start now.

Director Weaver stated, yeah, hope you get farther than I do in a nights time.

Mike Smolek asked, cause I’m trying to figure out, have we, do we have an A-2 now?

Director Weaver stated, no, that’s a new zoning. That will be in the new zoning.

Mike Smolek stated, I’ll probably have the biggest problem with that.

Attorney Altman stated, that’s probably trying to protect the farmer as much as any…

Gerald Cartmell stated, doesn’t look to me like it does.

Mike Smolek stated, I don’t know if it’s protecting us or not, that’s segregating us.

Attorney Altman stated, well understood, but it keeps everybody away from you. Well then they shouldn’t move by us, were there.

Gerald Cartmell stated, now you sound like Mitchell.

Director Weaver stated, now wait. I’m on the other side of that one. Where I moved there were no hogs and now there are.

Mike Smolek stated, I don’t disagree with setbacks and there is, we’ve got stupid guys in our industry too that push things to the ultimate limit that those buildings put up that they don’t need to be there. In my opinion. And I could name names but I’m not going to. But with EPA regulations and IDEM regulations and now were adding to those regulations and so on and so forth that really, I don’t know. I have to read thru it, I haven’t read thru it all yet.

Director Weaver stated, I don’t know that in the long run your really going to be adding anything more because the simple fact, how many places are their that a hog confinement can go in and meet the separation requirement.

Mike Smolek stated, exactly, like the lady said earlier. We’re going to get a confine…well no your not because your to close to the river and theirs a lot of things that go along with that so on and so forth. But maybe some kind of regulations on, oh what’s the word for view, scenery, stuff like that, stuff to protect, in certain cases if those building were another 50 feet off the road it would say a lot. The smell wouldn’t be there, trees in front of those fans would be a big issue. We will know a lot more when EPA regulations come out on Air Emissions of what these buildings actually do. You know I’m probably, were probably the biggest up in our area, but if you put certain stuff in your pitch, you use certain kinds of feeds, duct barriers, so on and so forth, you don’t have a lot of emissions.

Director Weaver asked, how do you require those things though if they go small enough to…

Mike Smolek stated, see that’s the other thing, that farm, that farm that she was talking about was Westerhouse. That’s Roger and he falls underneath every regulation because he don’t have enough of them. See were, EPA is really going to come down on us but were putting out less emissions now than we would have back in the 70’s and 80’s if we were running 32,000 pigs on dirt.

Director Weaver asked, the new ordinance, does it stipulate that a confinement is over so many head? I don’t remember.

Mike Smolek stated, no, that’s, that’s the other thing…

Director Weaver stated, it’s been to long since I’ve read that part.

Mike Smolek asked, where’s that breaking point going to be between, you know, if you are confined I mean. It just says agricultural industry district intend to provide areas of county agricultural. If, if it’s zoned agricultural, what’s going to be the limitations on that. Is it going to be everybody, I mean, or is it just going to go after the big farms. Because that puts me and a lot of other guys in that classification because theirs no small farmers left. So I got to do some reading.

Attorney Altman stated, yeah, that’s why we want your input.

Director Weaver stated, that’s why they requested you have a copy.

Mike Smolek stated, because back in 1978 there was 365 hog farmers in the county. Were under 70 now. We’re about at the same amount of homes. Were actually less than we were back in the 80’s, but you know its all being done by a small or bigger operations.

Don Ward stated, call Greg Bossaer because we had a meeting last Monday on the Agricultural stuff and Greg was there and Al Furrer, John Heimlich, I was there and they actually Greg set it all up in his book, he can tell you what his consensus was. I wasn’t a farmer so I didn’t really know much about it.

Mike Smolek stated, is Greg Knoll, is he on the board still here. Okay, I just hadn’t seen him in the last couple weeks.

Director Weaver stated, well, he had a fair. Their getting ready for the fair this week, so.

President Charles Anderson asked, any other business we need to take care of?

Director Weaver stated, budgets have been turned it. BZA requested that we try to up the board’s pay, so I put it in for $100.00 a meeting for next year. Whether we’ll get it or not I don’t know.


Mike Smolek stated, Thank you for the pictures too, that helps.

Director Weaver stated, your welcome. I’m trying to think, I’m also, I’m also going to check into seeing if the board can get paid for mileage when you go out and view properties, see if you get paid for mileage. I’ve asked a couple people and haven’t gotten a good answer yet, so I’m working on that.

Mike Smolek stated, the thing with me, I can go out and look at all the property I want to, but if I cant see down on it and see what it’s going to affect, that’s where the pictures really do help.

Director Weaver stated, those do help, yeah, they do help. That’s a lot easier for me to get those in than it is the ones at the property anyway.

President Charles Anderson stated, you have to be careful with your mileage some people get in trouble with that.

Board Members stated, yeah.

Gerald Cartmell stated, I don’t know, do they.

Members of the board stated, haven’t yet.

Director Weaver stated, well any input you guys can have to any of the Council Members on salaries and stuff would be or the budget in general would be nice.

President Charles Anderson asked, we get any retirement?

Attorney Altman stated, I’m laughing with you Doc not at you.


Director Weaver stated, that’s all I’ve got.

President Charles Anderson asked, anything else?

Don Ward made a motion to adjourn.

Members of the Board seconded the motion.

The meeting adjourned.

Respectfully submitted,

David Scott, Secretary

Diann Weaver, Director

White County Area Plan Commission

“I AFFIRM, UNDER THE PENALTIES FOR PERJURY, THAT I HAVE TAKEN REASONABLE CARE TO REDACT EACH SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER IN THIS DOCUMENT, UNLESS REQUIRED BY LAW.”

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