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The White County Area Plan Commission met Monday, December 10, 2007, at 7:30 p.m. in the Commissioners’ Meeting Room, Second Floor, County Building, Monticello, Indiana.

Members attending were: Jim Mann Jr., Mike Smolek, David Rosenbarger, Charles Anderson, Donald W. Ward, Dennis Sterrett, Greg Bossaer, and David Scott. Also attending were Attorney Altman and Director Weaver.

Visitors Attending were: Larry Holderly, Gary Quade, Fay Quade, Perry McWilliams, John Hudec, Charles R. Mellon, Jeff Nagel, Suzie Ford, and Michael J. Ford.

The meeting was called to order by President Charles Anderson and roll call was taken. Don Ward made a motion to dispense with reading and approve the minutes of the November 13, 2007 meeting. Motion was seconded by Mike Smolek and carried unanimously.


#944 Sharon Garbison; The property is located on Lot Number 13 in H.P. Bennett’s Addition, located in the City of Monticello at 717 S. Main Street. Tabled from November 13, 2007.

Violation: None

Request: They are requesting to rezone from B-2 to I-1.

President Charles Anderson asked, do we have anybody here representing that request?

Director Weaver stated, I don’t see anyone.

President Charles Anderson stated, don’t see anybody here.

Attorney Altman stated, I was just working on the ballots but I don’t see anyone.

Director Weaver stated, I haven’t had any contact with her since, she came in shortly after the last meeting but I haven’t heard from her since the variance.

President Charles Anderson asked, so we need to table this then right?

Attorney Altman stated, yeah.

President Charles Anderson stated, okay, since we have nobody here for that one, we’re going to have to table that to the next meeting.

Dennis Sterrett stated, that was tabled once.

President Charles Anderson stated, it was tabled once. Can we?

Attorney Altman stated, but was it tabled by us though?

Director Weaver stated, I believe so.

Attorney Altman stated, I believe we tabled that.

President Charles Anderson stated, yeah, we tabled that.

Attorney Altman stated, yeah, so I’d sure let them know that the next time it’s dispensed by our rules.

President Charles Anderson asked, do I have a motion to table this?

Dennis Sterrett stated, yeah.

Jim Mann Jr. stated, second.

President Charles Anderson stated, so moved.


#945 Gary A. & Fay M. Quade; The property is located on Lots 15,17, 19, 21, and 23 in Ball’s Addition on the West side of Pine Street between First and Second Streets, located in the Town of Monon at 403 E. 2nd Street.

Violation: None

Request: They are requesting to rezone from I-1 to R-1.

President Charles Anderson asked, do we have anybody here representing that request? Do you want to come forward and state your name?

Gary Quade stated, I am Gary Quade and I’m here to see about getting this rezoned. It’s been industrial I guess since the beginning. The rezoning as far as I can take it. My parents have owned the house or the property since about 1946 and the house was built shortly after there and we are in the process of selling it, actually we are ready to sell it but it can not be sold until the zoning comes into compliance so the financial institution can lend the money on it.

President Charles Anderson asked, the commissioners have any questions about the request at all?

Attorney Altman stated, so that this has been used as a residence from…

Gary Quade stated, 1947,1948.

Attorney Altman stated, until today.

Gary Quade stated, yes.

Attorney Altman stated, though there is some industrial in that area, there is also a lot of residence surrounding…

Gary Quade stated, yes, that’s correct.

Attorney Altman stated, really on all sides.

Gary Quade stated, right, that’s correct.

Attorney Altman stated, that’s what I thought.

President Charles Anderson asked, anybody in the audience have any questions about the request at all? I would say let’s go ahead and vote. Mainly just bringing it into compliance.

Attorney Altman stated, yeah, you hit it on the head Doc.

Director Weaver asked, did you bring your sign back?

Gary Quade stated, no, I have not, I will get that to you probably Thursday or Friday.

Director Weaver stated, that’s fine.

Gary Quade stated, if I can get it out of the yard.

Director Weaver stated, that’s fine. That’s fine.

Gary Quade stated, I will get it out.

The results of the vote were as follows: 8 affirmative and 0 negative. This will be presented to the Town Board of Monon for their action.

Attorney Altman asked, Dave when will that be?

Dave Scott stated, a week from tomorrow. Tuesday.

Attorney Altman stated, a week from tomorrow will be their usual meeting. What we will do is we will certify that to the clerk treasurer.

Gary Quade stated, okay.

Attorney Altman stated, and then they will bring it up at their, so I would sure check with them. We never know for sure exactly when that will be, but they have the final say and I sure would check with them.

Gary Quade, stated, okay, okay, I will be there. Thank you very much.

Attorney Altman stated, thank you.


#319 Michael J. & Carolyn Sue Ford; Requesting approval of a 2 lot subdivision to be known as Ford Acres, on 2.04 Acres, SW NW 8-26-3 in Union Township, located South West of Monticello at 2492 S. 425 E. Tabled from November 13, 2007.

President Charles Anderson asked, do we have anybody here representing that request? You want to come forward and state your name?

Michael Ford stated, Michael Ford.

President Charles Anderson stated, and I think your reasons for subdividing that was to cut down on the amount of mowing.

Michael Ford stated, yeah.

President Charles Anderson asked, the commissioners have any questions for Mr. Ford about this request? We wanted to see the drainage plan for that thing.

Director Weaver stated, they were tabled because of drainage issues. There were concerns by the neighbors. That has been addressed in the 2nd packet that we mailed out to you. You had a letter from the surveyor and on the back it shows how it was approved for the drainage.

Don Ward asked, is Toney Isom happy or?

Michael Ford stated, yeah, the first one is they were going to make a y. And I like this much better because it brings it over on my side which is the south side and my lot comes down and this lot will come down and it’s a natural little, and it will be completely away from Toney, so.

Don Ward stated, it’ away from him.

President Charles Anderson stated, but they haven’t done that though.

Attorney Altman stated, no. But that is approved.

Director Weaver stated, no.

Attorney Altman stated, for them to put it in as I understand, right Denny?

Dennis Sterrett stated, yes that’s right.

President Charles Anderson stated, so that would have to be put in to…

Dennis Sterrett stated, prior to the recording of the plat.

President Charles Anderson stated, the recording of the plat.

Director Weaver stated, Denny and I discussed that a little bit this afternoon and that’s what we feel should be done before recording of the plat, there’s no actual materials to require a letter of credit really other than labor. It wouldn’t keep them from putting the lot up for sale if we held this until, or made this be put in prior to them recording the plat. I mean, it wouldn’t hold them up in any way. But it would guarantee to us that it would be put in prior to.

President Charles Anderson stated, but you would have to put that on the…

Attorney Altman stated, I certainly would put that on your ballot.

Director Weaver asked, do you understand what we're saying sir?

Michael Ford stated, yeah, it’s a, if the weather stays half way decent, Todd said that it probably would take Reeds or somebody like that an hour or hour and a half because its just, you know, going down an inch or inch and a half, just a small grade coming around and then you wouldn’t be able to plant grass until next year but…

President Charles Anderson asked, what tile does that feed into then after that, there is no...

Dennis Sterrett stated, I think the plan shows it a half a foot deep, Mike.

Michael Ford stated, okay, whatever.

President Charles Anderson asked, does that feed into a tile further out into the…

Dennis Sterrett stated, no.

President Charles Anderson stated, there’s just a perimeter like.

Dennis Sterrett stated, no, not to my knowledge.

President Charles Anderson stated, it just goes out and ends at then end of the property line.

Dennis Sterrett stated, yeah, like it does now.

Attorney Altman stated, what it’s set up is to change the grade and make a swale there along the lines as what’s called the approved group on your accompanying your letter right Denny?

Dennis Sterrett stated, yes.

Michael Ford stated, there’s a county tile behind me that drains the field behind me and goes across and goes thru Medleys and down to there.

President Charles Anderson asked, do the commissioners have any questions about that subdivision? Anybody?

Jim Mann Jr. stated, I believe this is what we asked them to do.

Don Ward asked, do we have to make that a condition?

Attorney Altman stated, I sure would. Yes, I think I would.

President Charles Anderson asked, is that going to be on the secondary or the primary?

Attorney Altman stated, well I’d put in onto the primary too, I sure would. Because it is a condition, drainage re-routed per…

President Charles Anderson stated, the other tile…

Dennis Sterrett stated, it actually goes on the surface out to the tile.

Attorney Altman stated, so there not tile then, this was just a proposed swale and you’ve put void there because you’ve, that’s not that you’re requiring that.

President Charles Anderson stated, from the culvert then you’re running a tile out bypassing what the swale is then?

Michael Ford stated, no see the, see the…

President Charles Anderson stated, or were their 2 drains running through there?

Dennis Sterrett stated, no, that was the plan that was done by the surveyor and it was redesigned by the drainage board to make it …

Michael Ford stated, once this is built up for a house to sit there, then everybody was concerned that the water couldn’t get from the front of the lot to the back of the lot so the swale is to take care of that.

President Charles Anderson asked, do we have anybody in the audience that has any questions about this request at all, or about the subdivision? We can vote primary then.

Director Weaver stated, this is coming to you for both primary and secondary. I received the secondary plat today and I have reviewed it, there are a couple minor changes that need to be done on it but nothing major at all so.

President Charles Anderson stated, I’d say lets go ahead and, do we have both?

Attorney Altman stated, you just have primary right there.

President Charles Anderson stated, go ahead and vote. And everything on the subdivision ordinance has been met on this other than the drainage.

Director Weaver stated, to the best of my knowledge, yes.

The Primary Approval for a 2 lot subdivision to be known as Ford Acres Subdivision was approved by a vote of 8 to 0, based on a finding of fact that the Standards of the Subdivision Control Ordinance have been met and based on additional conditions as required by the commission and that being that the drainage plan as approved by the White County Drainage Board and as forwarded to us by the letter of the White County Surveyor dated December 03, 2007 be fully and completely installed and complied with before the final plat would be allowed to be recorded.

Attorney Altman stated, I think we can still go ahead since this is a 2 lot subdivision and since this is a fairly simple matter vote on the secondary ballot uh secondary approval unless the board doesn’t want to do so tonight.

President Charles Anderson asked, what all do you want to have changed on the secondary plat? Was it much or?

Director Weaver stated, no, it was just very minor details.

President Charles Anderson stated, it’s nothing that’s going to change it.

Director Weaver stated, I’d have to look. I’ve got my notes here in the file.

Attorney Altman stated, okay, grab them. I didn’t realize there was something, other issues.

Director Weaver stated, actually, I take that back. The questions I had was whether the drainage had needed to be shown as an easement on the lots and if we needed a estimate for the improvements which there were no material improvements, its just labor, so both of these have been resolved. That was all I had.

President Charles Anderson stated, okay. The commissioners have any questions about this at all? Okay, let’s go ahead and vote on the secondary.

Attorney Altman stated, okay and this would be also subject to the same restriction about compliance with the drainage board’s requirements before it can be platted.

The Secondary Approval request for a subdivision to be known as Ford Acres Subdivision was approved by a vote of 8 to 0, based on a finding of fact that the Standards of the Subdivision Control Ordinance have been met. The approval would be pending compliance with the Drainage Boards, requirements before approval of the final plat.

Attorney Altman stated, so you get your drainage taken care of, get it inspected, I presume by Mr. Sterrett and approved by the board and then you’re ready to get that certification. Tell Diann that it’s ready to go and we’re ready to go.

Michael Ford stated, I appreciate you taking both votes tonight so I don’t have to come back. Thank You.


#07-7 Regal Development; Requesting secondary approval of a Planned Unit Development to be known as Shafer Shores Town Homes on Lots Number 7 & 8 in Shafer Shores Part 2. The property is located North of Monticello at 4599 N. West Shafer Drive and 4625 N. West Shafer Drive.

President Charles Anderson asked, do we have anybody here representing that request? You want to come forward and state your name.

Perry McWilliams stated, yeah, hi, Perry McWilliams.

President Charles Anderson asked, the commissioners have any questions about the request at all? I think Don has been doing some work with them on this. Do you want to comment any on that Don?

Don Ward stated, well, I understood we needed a letter from your financial institution that they would back the, but they didn’t say that in their letter. They said that they’ve backed you previously but they didn’t say anything about financing this one.

Greg Bossaer, well Don, it says, as with the other Regal projects, we are interested in financing this property.

Don Ward stated, I’m happy with it if the board is.

Greg Bossaer stated, well I mean, it depends I guess on how you interpret it.

President Charles Anderson asked, do we have somebody here wanting to speak on behalf of the Regal Corporation or Regal Development?

Jeff Nagel stated, Jeff Nagel with Regal Development and I’ve been working with the bank for quite awhile and they have been with us on every step of the way. And, so they’re ready as soon as we get approval and we have as it stated worked with them for 25 years I think it is, so…

President Charles Anderson asked, anybody else have any questions about that?

Greg Bossaer stated, what are, the projects of this magnitude, typically does the county require some kind of performance bond or something or…

Don Ward stated, only on the public part of it and they’re not really doing anything public I don’t think, there are streets there and so they don’t have to have any kind of bond, isn’t that right Jerry?

Attorney Altman stated, as I understood, you know, you’re the engineer there, and I’m not seeing that there... They do need to put in consistent with the drainage plan and that needs to be done and approved and that sort of thing. And then of course they got blacktopping and etc, etc. But as far as other public I can understand why you’re saying that.

Don Ward stated, there so little and it’s strictly the driveway part from the pavement edge to the right of way edge is all that we’d be requiring and if they don’t do that they won’t be able to get out on the road anyway. I’d say waive that.

Jeff Nagel stated, thank you.

President Charles Anderson asked, any other questions on the…?

Attorney Altman stated, one thing and I think its probably just somewhat a formality because usually what is done is, I call it boiler plate, its generally simple ordinary by laws organization and how bills are paid, how the yards mowed, and that sort of thing, and who controls and how that’s handled. That’s part of our general requirements and I do need to see a copy of that to make sure it’s consistent with…

President Charles Anderson stated, maybe like restricted covenants for the…

Attorney Altman stated, that plus how the..

President Charles Anderson stated, no, not restricted covenants but…

Attorney Altman stated, its restrictions on who can do what and that they are going to pay the bill to mow the grass and there going to get billed by your group and your group is going to perpetually even after you folks have sold this to other people and they will have the organization there. And that’s the sort of thing quite frankly so usual that I don’t think that I’m saying, it ought to be here in the file today, but quite frankly I don’t think I’m in here opposed as objection to approval tonight but I do think that they need to get that to me please so I can approve it and I’m sure they will have it so its just standard operating procedures usual organization, bylaws, and that sort of thing so I wouldn’t even consider that as except it needs to be done.

Perry McWilliams stated, are you trying to say that the Homeowners Association fees. Is that what you’re trying to say.

Attorney Altman stated, whatever you say, however you mean it, however its more than that because it quite frankly sets out who’s got right to what, who’s got right to mow the grass, and who’s got, who’s required to decide when the blacktopping is done and all those sort of things that are pretty important and pretty standard too.

Perry McWilliams stated, Homeowners Associations exactly that is and the starting out a project like this the homeowners association fees come in as we complete the building. Then we get the quotes and we find out exactly what those fees are and then at that point that is, that will be presented. But on a preliminary or even a secondary approval you don’t even have, no one has numbers.

Attorney Altman stated, no I’m not talking about numbers.

Don Ward stated, no we're not talking about numbers, were talking about rules and regulations. I didn’t tell you that and I’m sorry about that but I never thought about that.

Attorney Altman stated, I’m talking about the rules and regulations and who controls that.

President Charles Anderson stated, it would be the homeowners themselves.

Don Ward stated, who collects the money and the whole works. Somebody has to pay every month the whole bunch of it.

President Charles Anderson stated, but until the whole project is completed I think that would be the developer that would have to …

Perry McWilliams stated, it doesn’t exist. Nothing exists until it you know, it’s completed.

President Charles Anderson stated, take care of that until the whole project is done.

Attorney Altman stated, usually they start out right now with a set of those and you folks are the person that has the authority to do that and then when you get them all sold then that association continues and takes over and keeps things, the snow plowed and that sort of thing and those things ought to exist pretty dog gone quick and they ought to exist before you get full secondary approval and its just pretty standard language and so if you get those to me so I can look it over and make sure its right, Ill certainly…

President Charles Anderson stated, we can still vote on this tonight.

Perry McWilliams stated, okay, thank you, thank you, thank you.

Director Weaver stated, well we also need a plat that can be recorded in the Recorder’s office.

Don Ward stated, we have to have a plat.

Perry McWilliams stated, right.

Director Weaver stated, there’s a preliminary plat that has to get recorded before the improvements are put in and once the improvements are in then there’s a recorded plat that gets recorded afterwards.

Perry McWilliams stated, okay, okay.

Greg Bossaer stated, so we need to write those 2 on the…

Attorney Altman stated, yeah, I sure would, yeah, yeah, but I don’t want anyone to feel like what I’m saying is that you cant go ahead tonight and vote on this, just like you just said Greg, they need to write those down as conditions that need to be taken care of.

Perry McWilliams stated, and Jerry let me just go on the record by stating we will have a homeowners association, you know just like you’re stating and everything will be above board. Without a doubt.

Attorney Altman stated, oh no, I don’t mean that. No, I don’t mean that, I’m just saying; get your by-laws and such set up now so I can approve them.

Perry McWilliams stated, yeah, you bet, okay, very good.

President Charles Anderson stated, that’s something that those homeowners can probably change that.

Attorney Altman stated, someday they can probably change it.

Greg Bossaer stated, yeah, they probably even have generic versions of it where you can implement it.

President Charles Anderson stated, if you sell off 1 or 2 at a time who’s going to take care of those things until all of them are sold off.

Perry McWilliams stated, yeah, exactly.

Attorney Altman stated, yeah and that’s usually where it’s a majority vote and for a long time you guys have the majority.

Perry McWilliams stated, yeah, typically on a project the builder covers all that stuff, okay, until it’s fully occupied and then it’s done.

President Charles Anderson stated, which you could even write that up as that.

Attorney Altman stated, yeah, I don’t…

Perry McWilliams stated, but throughout the cost of the project, the builder absorbs all of that.

Attorney Altman stated, yeah, I understand that, but it’s the future I’m concerned about.

Perry McWilliams stated, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Attorney Altman stated, and the future I know...

Perry McWilliams stated, and that will have to be recorded like anything else.

Attorney Altman stated, and that’s what needs to be on this plat that Diann’s talking about. So that’s what I’m really saying is get it now so that we don’t stop, we don’t hold you up on your approvals.

President Charles Anderson asked, is there anything else the commissioners want to talk to him about? You have anything else Don?

Greg Bossaer asked, what were the conditions again?

Attorney Altman stated, homeowner’s association bylaws or governments, second thing Greg, the plats, yeah you got to have a plat or we can’t approve it even if we want to.

Greg Bossaer stated, a recorded plat.

Attorney Altman stated, a plat that’s able to be recorded.

Director Weaver stated, a plat has to go thru my review before it can be recorded.

President Charles Anderson stated, you guys want to go ahead and vote then.

Attorney Altman stated, yeah.

Jim Mann Jr. stated, I would just like the record to show that I’m going to abstain as I did on the preliminary meetings because of my association with Real Estate Network and all that, so I just wanted to put that on the record.

Attorney Altman stated, very good.

Perry McWilliams stated, well I take the comment Don made last time you did that is that you wouldn’t get paid the $50.00 or whatever it is. Now will he get paid the $50.00 still?

Don Ward stated, no.

Perry McWilliams stated, oh he wont (laughing)

Don Ward stated, he will get $40.00, alright.

The results of the vote were as follows: 7 affirmative and 0 negative and 1 abstention. Subject to the conditions a properly recordable plat be submitted and that the homeowners bylaws, etc, etc, be approved, be submitted and approved by the attorney for the Area Plan Commission. This matter is ready for proceeding.


#07-8 TSCR, LLC; Requesting Primary approval of a Planned Unit Development to be known as Lakewood Condominiums on Lot Numbers 3, 4, 5 and 6 in Frank R. Burch’s Lakeside Second Addition, located in the City of Monticello at 208-214 N. Beach Drive. Tabled from October 9, 2007 and November 15, 2007.

President Charles Anderson stated, I don’t think we have anybody here representing that request.

Don Ward stated, that’s my fault.

President Charles Anderson stated, well you want to talk on that a little bit Don.

Don Ward stated, well I called him and told him it wouldn’t be approved. It made him mad and he didn’t show.

Attorney Altman stated, then we probably should just table this and have him…

Don Ward stated, actually what I told him was that it probably wouldn’t be approved but we really need to discuss it some if we can.

Attorney Altman stated, after the meeting, you can certainly have informal groups that aren’t a quorum can discuss it together.

Dave Scott asked, is this similar to what we just done?

Don Ward stated, yeah.

Director Weaver stated, they’re still trying to get primary approval.

Don Ward stated, I have more information actually than you have. They, they brought me stuff, so I need to have you look it over because I’m the only one who has it.

Dave Scott stated, can we get Don and a couple other guys to meet with them and try to…

Attorney Altman stated, I think that would be a super idea.

Dave Scott stated, and try to work out some of the details and not send them back 2 or 3 times.

Don Ward stated, well actually what I was going to recommend was that we did approve it and the reason I was going to recommend that was because we don’t really have a good set of rules that cover something like this when there’s already a building in place and they don’t have an architect working for them. What I really wanted was architectural drawings and they didn’t provide those, they provided line drawings of the floor plan and line drawings of the section thru the building as I told you last time I wasn’t sure what our responsibilities were but Denny and I have discussed this quite a lot and we’ve had a couple meetings plus we’ve met privately and talked about it a couple three times and it’s complicated because there are 2 apartments above the existing apartments and when they sell the bottom apartments the existing apartments above are strictly there but there’s no land that goes with them if you understand that. We were talking about what if it burns down, well the people up above if it burns down they get their insurance money, that’s it. They don’t own any land.

Attorney Altman stated, they would have a right to rebuild. They would have rights to do that if it’s properly drawn up. And this is where we would need the documentation now.

President Charles Anderson stated, well what would an insurance company say about it?

Don Ward stated, we have a legal description for each apartment. There are 6 apartments basic and then there are 2 above. Well we have a legal description for the 4 apartments below and a legal description for the 2 apartments above. There’s an error on one but that’s minor and could easily be corrected. There supposed to have parking areas and they do have some parking area but we don’t know if they have enough because they didn’t show exactly what they have and its my understanding they have to have 2 parking places for each apartment not counting the garage.

Director Weaver stated, that is correct.

Don Ward stated, and you can’t block 1 car, you can’t park one behind another and block it in. In other words you have to have 2 spaces they can get in and out of. That isn’t shown but that also is something. I recommended we waive the drainage plans, they’re right by the lake, waive the cross sections and financial backing papers, they bought it, we don’t need cost estimate on it. I thought they should show where the upper level apartments are on the lower level drawings. Even the plats to be recorded. Because they will have 2 plats, 1 for the 2 upper apartments and 1 for the 6 lower apartments. But if they can show on the lower apartments where the upper ones are by cross hatching or something it would sure be a big help. It’s very very difficult to tell where they are on this plat, in fact, Denny and I couldn’t tell without looking at the photographs that you gave us. And get a floor elevation of the 2
nd floor, now there are drawings they gave us but they don’t dimension anything. I mean, he did give, he shows like 11.2’ this, that, and the other. There are a couple apartments missing. I think, I think, I told him they needed 1 drawing for each apartment that is similar. In other words if they have 3 alike they need 1 drawing for all 3 and then list which ones they are and show on the plat which ones they are. But there are 2 missing. We have drawings for 6 but not 8 and I think all it means is that they didn’t, they need to list here where it is. I believe that. This should be passed around so you can see it.

Attorney Altman stated, well I tell you what were basically going beyond what we usually do when they’re not here. I don’t mind us discussing, but we can’t proceed to deliberation.

Don Ward stated, well what we should do, we can have 5 of us meet and I think we should have 5 of us meet and…

Attorney Altman stated, with them.

Don Ward stated, with them and then go over this and then maybe if they want another meeting, 5 more but 2 or 3 different guys so the whole board gets in on it.

Attorney Altman stated, well you got to be careful about several meetings but as long as you’re just….

Don Ward stated, well I’d like to do 1 meeting and get it over with.

Attorney Altman stated, well unfortunately they’re not here tonight so we can’t proceed with deliberation however I think the information you got from them is totally appropriate to give to Diann so that Diann can give to everybody, not tonight but directly.

President Charles Anderson asked, what did you want Jerry to look at? Wasn’t there…

Don Ward stated, well he could look at this too, Diann has it, he can look at it. This is the only copy they have. They may get you more copies.

Director Weaver stated, I haven’t received anything conditional from them.

Attorney Altman stated, well they also need to get they bylaws and that sort of thing because that’s even more important here because they have property that’s in the air as you said and those people need to have rights to support.

President Charles Anderson stated, so do the people with a regular condominium because they’ve got apartments above apartment’s regular condo because they still own part of that ground as part of this.

Attorney Altman stated, they’ve got a right to support is what they have, a right to be there.

Don Ward stated, a right to be up there.

Attorney Altman stated, a right to be there.

Dennis Sterrett stated, they’re stacked on top of each other usually, they’re not 1 here and then up here there’s 1 over here.

Attorney Altman stated, and what you’re just saying is they need to be identified where they are right Denny?

Dennis Sterrett stated, yeah, well there is a legal description for them but those legal descriptions are over now, the top ones overlap the bottom ones and it doesn’t say anything about it, well it does say upper but what does that mean.

President Charles Anderson stated, so you want to write, we need an actual legal description of where the 2 upper apartments are…

Dennis Sterrett stated, no we have those.

Don Ward stated, we have those.

Dennis Sterrett stated, but they overlap the owners of the bottom apartment.

President Charles Anderson stated, but you need to know exactly where it is, where the bottom, the rights to the bottom.

Dennis Sterrett stated, well there needs to be an elevation in there somewhere saying that this is above…

President Charles Anderson stated, and we will have to have this before we can pass this.

Attorney Altman stated, sure

Don Ward stated, well if we had, where we had sections that we need dimensions as much as anything that shows these floor levels. Where it is from the bottom floor level on up and if you look at Shafer Shores, they have the perfect example. There cross section shows you the dimensions all the way up 4 floors to show you the elevation is of each floor.

President Charles Anderson stated, but you don’t need the legal elevation of each …

Don Ward stated, you’re thinking of like cessation 2, but they did give what the lower floors are which is fine, I think the garage is different from the floor level of the apartments. That’s fine but we do need probably for the future in case it would burn down where they are from the other. They talked to Dave Anderson and Dave said, why are you doing this as a commercial thing when it’s a lot simpler to do it as a family unit. Well he kind of stumped me at the time but as I thought about it, it doesn’t really make any difference I don’t think to us whether it’s commercial now or what it goes to later on, but we have to look at it as an apartment building don’t you? And I think Dave’s looking at it from his standpoint of inspecting. He wouldn’t (inaudible) a new building and it’s just a house, it’s a lot different if he’s going to inspect Walgreen’s out here. I believe that’s what he’s thinking.

Mike Smolek stated, you had said something before that they didn’t have an architect. When we start getting into these PUD’S is that something we should put in our, because they’re spending a lot of money, they ought to be able to afford an architect to get the right drawings and structure and…

Don Ward stated, yeah, well we could, actually, in architecture and engineering, electrical engineering…

Mike Smolek stated, because they don’t put the right required stuff in that building and Dave would know that.

Dave Rosenbarger stated, but it’s already built, he’s not going to inspect it.

Don Ward stated, I don’t know that we can require that because in engineering and architecture, a mechanical engineer can design a electrical systems, mechanical systems, civil systems, aircraft, whatever, what the laws in Indiana say is you have to know what your doing. It doesn’t say that your restricted to your profession or your strictly your profession is civil engineering or electrical or mechanical, it just says that you need to know what your doing or you don’t do it. Yeah it would be nice to have an architect, architects normally use 3 or 4 engineering setups. They have an electrical engineer handling all the wiring and all that kind of stuff, they have a mechanical engineer that handles the heating and air conditioning and pumping and stuff like that and then they will have a structural engineer with the structures. The architect's doing his part at it, they're all working together to get a big building.

President Charles Anderson asked, who do you suggest they get to draw this for the elevations and stuff?

Don Ward stated, well they will have to get Bill Stine to do it, that’s who’s working for them and they’ll have to get him to show the dimensions. If we could show them what we have here from Shafer Shores and maybe try to get him halfway close to it.

President Charles Anderson stated, get Bill to do that you mean.

Don Ward stated, I mean, he’s got a license. He took the job, so.

Attorney Altman stated, I just suggest that you maybe call and get a meeting with you …

President Charles Anderson asked, do we have some volunteers for the first meeting?

Don Ward stated, I’d like to have the whole, 4 or 5 guys there. I mean, I don’t like being…

Attorney Altman stated, you need 4 to 5 guys.

President Charles Anderson asked, do we have any volunteers to help?

Don Ward stated, well Denny will I’m sure.

President Charles Anderson stated, or will you Denny?

Dave Scott stated, I’ll come over but I don’t know anything so I don’t know what good I’ll be.

President Charles Anderson asked, when do you want to, you want to set up the meeting now or…

Don Ward stated, well we will have to find out when they can come.

President Charles Anderson asked, anybody else want to volunteer?

Mike Smolek stated, I can do it. Just, I mean, evenings better for me but I know it’s probably not for everyone else.

Don Ward stated, well its better for us, but I don’t know that we can get them there.

Mike Smolek stated, or closer to evening like maybe 4 or 5.

Director Weaver stated, just so you know the guys that volunteer to be on this committee, as long as we have the money in our budget to pay you we can and while were on this subject I recommend we discuss paying Don for some of his time.

Attorney Altman stated, oh my goodness yes.

Director Weaver stated, yeah, he and Denny and I have met twice last week.

Mike Smolek stated, going back to these things, if it’s alright to talk about this stuff now.

President Charles Anderson stated, we got to do something about …

Attorney Altman stated, we got to table it okay.

Jim Mann Jr. stated, I’d like to help out on this too, I don’t know how many names have been thrown out there.

Director Weaver stated, we can’t have more than 5.

Jim Mann Jr. stated, I think I might have been the fifth.

Director Weaver stated, I’ve got Don Ward, Dennis Sterrett, Dave Scott, Mike Smolek, and Jim Mann Jr.

Jim Mann Jr. stated, I think there’s a lot of things we’ve discussed and if you read the minutes, really spell out a lot of the things that we’ve asked them to do and I don’t know how far they got on that Don. I mean, that’s, when you met with them and everything.

Dave Scott stated, so we need a motion to table this?

President Charles Anderson stated, second motion to table this.

Member of the board stated, second.

President Charles Anderson stated, it will be tabled then.


Dave Scott, does the association own the insurance policy or something like that or does each individual guy?

Attorney Altman stated, you can write it up, I’ve seen it written up where the association does it, I’ve seen it where they basically have a omnibus if you will and I’ve seen it where they require each unit have insurance and furnish proof of insurance. So it goes both ways, but again, this is the boiler plate that can be done, you know, its generic if you will, is what I mean by boiler plate.

Director Weaver stated, well that’s really what the bylaws are supposed to tell you anyway how there require it.

Attorney Altman stated, exactly, yeah, that’s exactly it.

Don Ward stated, they not only carry insurance on their own property, they carry insurance on the building for sure, if they don’t insure the contents, that’s their problem.


President Charles Anderson stated, next on the agenda would be business, well amendments.

Director Weaver stated, I’ve given you a proposed fee schedule, I also gave you a copy of the existing fee schedule. The push on this issue is the fact that we really right now do not address a filing fee for planned unit developments, so we need to get something in place. I have asked for an increase on variances, rezoning's, due to the fact that the cost for the advertising has increased so much over the years since this old one was adopted. Other than that, I haven’t changed things a whole lot.

President Charles Anderson asked, any questions about the fee schedule or anyone have any…

Director Weaver stated, I did advertise this fee schedule so it is coming to you for a vote.

Don Ward stated, well on the planned unit development do you think a hundred dollars is enough?

Director Weaver stated, well its a hundred dollars for the primary.

Don Ward stated, and then 50 dollars.

Director Weaver stated, then when they come for secondary then it’s additional. Don what I thought, I don’t know that its enough but I hopefully it’s something to get started with.

Don Ward stated, well its something to get started with. You know that we had one that they got off the internet from California it was $5700 for filing and another $1800 of it you had to pay even though it wasn’t in the filing, so it made $7500 just getting started.

Director Weaver stated, but what would those filing fees go for I mean, that they would need to be that high?

Don Ward stated, well they may have a full time plan commission for one thing.

Director Weaver stated, see I think that’s something we need to keep in mind though when we set our filing fees.

Attorney Altman stated, they probably would inspect, you know, immediately they would go and inspect and they wouldn’t wait until somebody comes in with a plan, they would, so that they do things differently.

Don Ward stated, well you take an area like California or say Florida, there far more strict than we are.

Attorney Altman stated, I guess I second what Diann is saying. This may not be enough but it’s a good start. It lays in something so were not just doing this on the county tab.

President Charles Anderson stated, well they've got to make their money now cause one of them is going to fall in the ocean and the other is going to drown because of global warming so.

Dave Scott stated, Diann, I got a question. The existing fee schedule, like, you got building permits, garages, and all that stuff, does that stay the same.

Director Weaver stated, we don’t charge those fees anymore. We don’t collect any money at this point and time.

Mike Smolek stated, that’s the building department.

Director Weaver stated, now we would break away and start…

Dave Scott stated, but these are for the individual coming in?

Director Weaver stated, no those are null and void when he adopted his fee schedule. If we start issuing an improvement location permit separate from the building permit which I think maybe with the new ordinance might be something that we should do or consider doing then we will have to impose some kind of a fee but that might possibly be a simple flat fee because of review.

President Charles Anderson asked, any other questions about the fee?

Dennis Sterrett asked, well what are you charging now for a planned unit development for primary approval?

President Charles Anderson stated, nothing.

Director Weaver stated, no, I am.

President Charles Anderson stated, are you.

Director Weaver stated, right now I’m charging for a primary approval, I’m charging the filing fee for a rezoning because that step is basically rezoning the property to a planned unit development and then for the secondary approval I’m charging the same as a subdivision. Which is basically how I’ve set this up.

Attorney Altman stated, and this is just to support that custom if you will.

Dennis Sterrett asked, so are these fees more than what your charging now?

Director Weaver stated, the hundred dollars is, right now were charging 25. So I increased it mainly because the cost of the advertising has gone up.

Jim Mann Jr. stated, and that’s the main reason for the increase.

Director Weaver stated, yes.

President Charles Anderson asked, any other questions? If not Id say lets go ahead and vote.

Mike Smolek asked, do we have to sign this or do anything with that or is that just our copy?

Director Weaver stated, that’s just your copy. I will take it, if it’s approved, I will take it onto the county commissioners then it will be forwarded on to the …

The results of the vote were as follows: 8 affirmative and 0 negative.


President Charles Anderson stated, next on the agenda will be business. Do you have something from there too Diann?

Director Weaver stated, the claims for Attorney Altman.

Attorney Altman stated, the only things I’d say there is I’ve just submitted an hourly billing for doing work for White County, we’ve obviously, there’s lots of work we don’t charge, like meetings. However I do get paid on a monthly basis but I don’t charge hourly for that and some things I don’t charge at all.

President Charles Anderson asked, any questions about billing?

Mike Smolek asked, so we need a motion to accept it? I make a motion to accept it.

Don Ward stated, I’ll second.

President Charles Anderson stated, so moved.

Director Weaver stated, the only thing is I’ve got the Planned Unit Development for us to discuss if we want to discuss or if we want to review it more. I know there was discussion last month about revising what we have in our ordinance now so I took what we have proposed in our new ordinance and made some revisions so it could fit into our current ordinance.

Dave Scott, is there anyway to get a copy of, down around Indianapolis, how they’re doing those housing developments and stuff?

Director Weaver stated, you’ve got a copy of Tippecanoe County’s. We can look on the internet and see.

Dave Scott stated, or how they are doing some of the town houses downtown Indianapolis, because I know they're selling those as houses and that gets back into what we were just dealing with. How do they separate that out?

Director Weaver stated, if you want me to gather more information, that’s fine, I’d be more than glad to do that.

Dave Scott stated, I didn’t know how far were going to go on this tonight, but the one thing where it talks about area plan action there’s 2 places where it says area plan commission approval with conditions on the PUD to the appropriate legislative body by simple majority votes area plan commission members present voting. There’s 2 different places that say that.

Director Weaver asked, where are you at?

Dave Scott stated, well, there’s no pages, but, about half way.

Director Weaver stated, there’s article numbers.

Dave Scott stated, okay, at the top where it says authority, if you look down there at point 3, procedure for decision and then look down area plan commission action within 30 days at that point 1, area plan commission shall vote to recommend approval or deny approval with conditions on the PUD to the appropriate legislative body by a simple majority of those area plan commission members present.

Mike Smolek stated, we should scratch out present because it’s a majority isn’t it so they have to have so many.

Dave Scott stated, and there’s another place where that is, 2 pages over, procedure for final plan it has the same wording. The top, on the right.

Director Weaver stated, yep, I see it. Okay, got it.

President Charles Anderson asked, you guys want to take another month to read the, I didn’t realize that’s what was in there.

Attorney Altman stated, this isn’t advertised Doc.

Director Weaver stated, no it is not advertised.

President Charles Anderson asked, okay, do you guys want to take another month to read this?

Dave Scott asked, can you get some more information on some of that stuff?

Director Weaver stated, sure, sure.

Dave Scott stated, like Indianapolis is doing, because the homeowners don’t own the land, but they run the housing associations and all that stuff and how it’s actually set up because I’ve only been on here for a year and this is going to keep going and going and going so we better get ourselves in order.

Director Weaver stated, I can do that, and as soon as I can get it I will get it off in the mail to you.

Dave Scott stated, but you said we can’t meet as a group to hash this out it.

Attorney Altman stated, you can only have up to 5 people unless you have a called meeting okay.

President Charles Anderson stated, but the unit development is owned by the constituency that owned the unit development.

Attorney Altman stated, usually that’s what it is, yes. Usually that’s what it is.

President Charles Anderson stated, so actually they do own the land as a planned unit or as an association.

Attorney Altman stated, the association does, yes. Usually there’s…

Dave Scott stated, well I know Perry’s been in here, what, this is his 3rd time now, we denied him the first time, he came back and got his primary, and that’s his secondary. If there’s some kind of, and I know that PUD’s are different because its to encompass all different aspects of building and sites and environments so on and so forth but if there’s some kind of plan that we can say we need the topography of the ground and we need this and we need that and we need this and give it to the people that are doing these. Along with, you know,…

Director Weaver stated, we’ve got to get something more in place before we can go that route.

Dave Scott stated, some of this is confusing to read too. That’s just me.

Attorney Altman stated, that’s why Don is talking architect. To be honest with you, because they read this all the time.

Dave Scott stated, when there coming to do this, they cant tell me they don’t know, they got a ball park of what its going to cost them otherwise they wouldn’t even be looking at it. And so how much money is the architect really going to be on top of this? I mean, I don’t think it’s going to be that much but maybe I’m wrong. But to have legible drawings legible plans where we can sit down and actually see what’s going on and how it’s going to look when it’s finished. Because that’s also another big thing.

Attorney Altman stated, I agree with you.

Don Ward stated, but we have 2 different ones, one with new buildings and one with existing, so there really, there similar but there certainly not alike.

Dave Scott stated, and see I don’t understand, if we're doing the existing ones, like this one, and I wasn’t here the last meeting. When are they going to go in and do the buildings, are they just going to go in and remodel inside and make apartments.

Director Weaver stated, they’ve already remodeled this structure.

President Charles Anderson stated, it’s already been done.

Dave Scott asked, so why are they transferring it over to a PUD?

President Charles Anderson stated, they want to sell it, to maximize their revenue.

Don Ward stated, the building was done in 78. They should have done a set of plans. Should of done, should have gone thru this office, but I don’t think any of that happened.

Dave Scott stated, but when it goes back into a PUD, especially on an existing facility with existing electric, you’re talking about putting other peoples life’s at risk if they don’t follow certain codes, and do we stipulate that in our diagrams, or who does that. Is that Dave or…

Don Ward stated, in a new building, state does it, except for a home, you can do a home, but on the building that’s existing, without any plans, basically falls either on us or we ignore it and…

Dave Scott stated, well that’s what I’m saying. I mean if it’s an existing facility, regardless of it they remodeled it or not maybe that’s something that needs to go back and be addressed because this is the thing. You’re going to get these people buying these low properties, low cost, so on and so forth, go in there, slap some paint on, do whatever, turn around and sell them as a PUD, make high profits off it and they don’t care what happens to it.

Don Ward stated, that’s quite true. What we were talking about, you weren’t here last time was having the developer get a certified electrician check out the wiring, certified plumber to check out the plumbing, heating and air conditioning man to check out that, structural engineer to give us a general statement that the building is sturdy.

Dave Scott stated, on this one the other thing is if it’s sturdy enough to actually hold the apartments upstairs.

Don Ward stated, well I'm sure its good, but we, we can not as a group take on that responsibility, is that right.

Attorney Altman stated, yeah, right, that’s why.

Don Ward stated, they have to provide that to us by somebody else.

Dave Scott stated, well I’m not certified to make that call anyway.

Don Ward stated, but the point I was making last time was how far into it are we going to go. Because I don’t want to…

Dave Scott stated, but me personally I think we have obligations to the people buying it.

Don Ward stated, I think it needs to be us as a group deciding it of what to do.

Attorney Altman stated, I think those certifications ought to be part…

President Charles Anderson stated, of our plan.

Attorney Altman stated, yeah I do, and just bing, bing, bing.

Dave Scott stated, so if nothing else you’re going to have a set of rules for new construction and a set of rules for…

Don Ward stated, I think that actually we have a right to ask for as built plans and that will really cost them and if we did they’d jump off this building maybe.

Dave Scott stated, well I see it going that way and maybe I’m speaking out of line but, being a trustee in Cass township, there’s not a lot of money up there and I see guys buying these properties and selling them on contract but there’s no legal deed to that property in there and there house trailers so when they about get their trailer paid for then they turn around and tell them they have to move the trailer which they cant move anyway because its to old. I don’t, I mean, I don’t want to be a part of something that’s going to create that type of environment so where is our responsibility at?

Jim Mann Jr. stated, part of the problem with some of this is too is I’m going to speak to the same point but just a little differently is that if these people that want to make these investments if they knew that they were going to be required to do all this stuff it might impact their decisions.

Attorney Altman stated, I agree.

Jim Mann Jr. stated, I mean, were going from where we are today to having a structural engineer, electrical contractor, you know, plumbing contractor to verify, and then what if something comes up that they don’t like and then they lay it back in the developers hands, oh wait a minute, I didn’t know about all this or I didn’t expect all this, this isn’t, so you know, I guess the challenge is when you have an existing building when you ask them to do that, how, how do they know, unless they come here first and its spelled out that this is what’s going to be expected of them so they have a half a clue what’s going to be involved in it. I mean, I’m not sure that developers are afraid of spending some money but if they buy a property and they do their own inspection because they have contractors they work with; see where I’m going with, it can get kind of eluted and messed up.

Attorney Altman stated, that’s what I’m saying is have this down there.

Jim Mann Jr. stated, I’m talking on existing buildings, obviously with the one Shafer Shores and Regal Development guys, they you know, did a lot of stuff and they had to and apparently they met a lot of our concerns you know by doing so and now you got an existing building, you know, Tim and Charlie have, they bought the building and they thought were going to do this and this and this and were going to you know, they didn’t anticipate somebody was going to ask them to do electric or structural or so on and so forth.

Don Ward stated, I don’t get the idea there going to do much. The electrician would very quickly determine whether or not the wiring is, all he has to do is pull the panel off and off of the switch box and take a look at what gauge the wiring is. He could tell us whether it’s reasonably within code. This one we have should have a set of plans.

Dave Scott stated, yeah, Dave will have a problem with that if it’s got less than a 200 amp service.

Don Ward stated, a plumber can give an idea of whether the thing is dented. That’s about all he can tell is if it has valves to shut off the water to repair things. Heating man, if there happens to be fireplaces, he can tell if it has dampers and he can check the furnaces and chimneys to see if they are reasonably safe and we can ask them to give us a letter that meets the code. The letter is going to state that in their inspection that it is reasonably close to code. That’s about the best they can do. They’re not going to be able to tell you it’s exact. They being a certified electrician or plumber. There are things that a good plumber can tell you about the plumbing pretty fast. I mean, he can figure that out in a hurry.

Dave Scott stated, now being in Tippecanoe County it says that they have to have letters from the fire, the sewer, the health, I mean all those things, is that something, I mean, because you could go in there, and I didn’t even check on Shafer Shores. How are they going to bring the gas lines into those apartments? Is it 1 meter for each house and is there a main shut off somewhere in case 1 of those catches on fire? Whose responsibility is those?

Don Ward stated, I will assume NIPSCO would control those all the way to the building. Inside the building would be up to the developer and that goes thru the state.

President Charles Anderson stated, on Shafer Shores there going to be individual units. They would have individual gas lines.

Dave Scott stated, yeah, but there close enough together that…

President Charles Anderson stated, yeah, but they got to have fire walls in between them to and are we going to require on Planned Unit Developments, who we going to require, you know, were not going to let them present their own plans are we any more. Are we going to go to having an architect builder plans?

Don Ward stated, we have to have, we have to have somebody that’s certified, either have to have an engineer or an architect. I mean otherwise if we just let Tom, Dick, and Harry do it, we assume the responsibility the same as they do because there not capable by law of doing it.

Dave Scott stated, well I would say that most of these things have to be financed anyways so no lending institution is going loan money on something…

Don Ward stated, they would if we approved it.

Attorney Altman stated, you look at all the stuff that’s happened in the lending institutions and all these mortgages, there not certifying very much, there just quick bang and it’s out the window.

President Charles Anderson stated, I wish I had a couple of them that extend for me.

Attorney Altman stated, but I think Don that we ought to have a A and a B plan, one for new, one for existing and then you just either have a architect certify or a certified engineer or certified electric, plumbing, or what have you and its just that simple.

Don Ward stated, and like I said, they can’t give us that this is just in compliance. They have to give us that it’s in reasonable compliance.

Attorney Altman stated, but there again, that’s just, suits us.

Don Ward stated, if something goes wrong, the plumbing goes bad, the person that buys it, 6 months later, plumbing goes bad he’s going to come in here and jump all over us.

Dave Scott stated, the other thing is, how would it get to that place? So if the people buy the building and they're going to remodel it, they're going to have to go see Dave. How does that work?

Attorney Altman stated, it depends on how much.

Director Weaver stated, it depends on the remodel. They didn’t have to have a permit for what they did up there, or they didn’t have a permit.

Dave Scott stated, see like plumbing is something that should be addressed or spelled out in the common area or whatever that, what is that, because a lot of that plumbing is going to be common. Every one of them is going to be a separate main drain. If they got a problem, the guy that talks to us says well my stool works, and the guy says well its coming out of my stool.

Attorney Altman stated, there’s where the bylaws take care of it Dave. There’s where the bylaws or the rules take care of it so that there is somebody in charge to make sure that everybody is treated fairly.

Dave Scott stated, but in a remodel, like what we're going to address here, that really needs to, there’s some of those things that need to be, because a lot of that stuff is going to be common because it was an apartment building before, maybe one guy paying all the utilities.

Jim Mann Jr. stated, have they had Dave over there yet Don?

Don Ward stated, what.

Jim Mann Jr. stated, have they had Dave over there, Dave Anderson?

Director Weaver stated, I don’t know that Dave will. I don’t think that he will.

President Charles Anderson stated, I doubt that he will.

Director Weaver stated, that’s not what his job is.

Don Ward stated, no, that’s not his job. I wouldn’t go if I were Dave. I would talk to them, but I wouldn’t go and look at it.

Director Weaver stated, a comment was made.

Jim Mann Jr. stated, one of us said that we should make sure Dave is involved in it.

Dave Scott stated, yeah because I read it in here somewhere, somebody said Dave…

Jim Mann Jr. stated, so really it comes back to what you were saying about having the proper contractors that could make the inspection.

Don Ward stated, well my contractor is certified.

Jim Mann Jr. stated, well, yeah.

President Charles Anderson stated, but right now that’s not in our ordinance, so will this….

Don Ward stated, that’s right.

President Charles Anderson stated, so we can’t stick that with that, but…

Jim Mann Jr. stated, I don’t think that this..

Director Weaver stated, I don’t think this one addresses anything existing either.

Attorney Altman stated, so you got an A and then you make a B.

Don Ward stated, that’s what we’ve got to get done. We’ve got to get this done. So we have something to hang our hat on.

Dave Scott stated, but then the fact is, how do we get that out there so the people know about it? There not going to come see you unless they want to get it redone. So there going to go ahead and remodel and do everything they need to do…

President Charles Anderson stated, well that’s their problem.

Director Weaver stated, if they get a …

Dave Scott stated, well that’s what I’m saying, but I mean, it’s going to be an issue.

President Charles Anderson stated, well hopefully there’s not going to be that many.

Don Ward stated, well ignorance of the law is no excuse in this country.

Attorney Altman stated, especially with stuff like this.

Dave Scott stated, so how do we start making that secondary set of things?

Director Weaver stated, maybe the 5 committee members that we had volunteer…

President Charles Anderson stated, we need to all read thru these and try to figure out what type of a plan we want to have and then get together and…

Don Ward stated, I think Diann’s right, the committee’s going to have to come up with the stuff, you guys are going to have to review it and approve it.

Greg Bossaer stated, well there could be some generics that fit for both and then they split off separately whether it’s existing or…

Director Weaver stated, have one group work on existing and one group work on new.

Greg Bossaer stated, well I know but the ultimate plan you know, starts out with things that affect both.

Dave Scott stated, is there a way to keep from re inventing the wheel and then can we compare to some other counties.

Director Weaver stated, well that’s why we’ve got Tippecanoe’s here. Mike wants us to pull Indianapolis.

Dave Scott asked, do they address the difference between rebuilds and…

Director Weaver stated, you probably do want us to stick with Indiana counties right.

Dave Scott stated, yeah.

Don Ward stated, this is related for a consulting firm that does that kind of work.

Director Weaver stated, and well, that’s what you’ve got here that I revised to fit into this, our proposed ordinance.

Dave Scott asked, have we gotten anything back on that yet?

Attorney Altman stated, this is what we’ve got back.

Dave Scott stated, no, I mean on the whole thing.

Attorney Altman stated, no, this is what we got. I meant to be answering your question.

Director Weaver stated, this is directly, other than the changes, like the chapter number, this is what’s in the proposed ordinance. I didn’t put page numbers on here, because I tell you what, by the time I got the numbers right I was so fed up, I didn’t care about page numbers. I was fighting with the computer for 2 days on it. And just to update you on the new ordinance. They are going to try to have another steering committee meeting, John Heimlich has conference called with HNTB tomorrow, I was invited to be in on that meeting but my daughter has a Dr. appointment so I can’t but they are, Don is heading towards another steering committee meeting here very soon, so, be ready for that. I don’t know when it will be.

Dave Rosenbarger asked, have we done anything on wind farms yet?

Director Weaver stated, nothing new that I’m aware of.

Greg Bossaer stated, we’ve just got samples from Benton and Clinton, I think.

Director Weaver stated, there is something, didn’t they put something in the draft for, yeah, I thought there was something.

Dave Rosenbarger stated, but that’s something that’s going to have to get on quick too.

President Charles Anderson stated, do you have any other…

Greg Bossaer asked, so who’s missing tonight, 2 people, Cartmell and…

Director Weaver stated, and Bob Thomas, and I did get a reappointment for you Jim and Bob Thomas is going to be reappointed and I don’t remember who else was up…

David Rosenbarger stated, did we ever get the 11th one?

Director Weaver stated, no, not yet. Jerry and I need to work on that one.

David Rosenbarger stated, but that was for small towns, representatives for small towns.

Attorney Altman stated, and the truth is, reading this real quickly. It doesn’t really say even on new stuff that it be certified by an architect or engineer Don. It doesn’t really lay that out very well.

Dennis Sterrett asked, well wouldn’t the state do that though, doesn’t it have to go thru the state?

Attorney Altman stated, I think your right Denny, but that’s expecting it to be done, not required to be done. And I don’t think it all…

Mike Smolek asked, what are the state laws as far as these things, what are the state regulations?

Don Ward stated, well they were, I don’t know what they are now, but they were, you can do a building, even a public building if it had less than 30,000 cubic feet under the roof, you could do it yourself. You didn’t need to hire anyone, architect, engineer, anyone, but if it got over that, then you have to have an architect or engineer and then ….

Mike Smolek stated, yeah, but then it has to have certain handicap accessible and this and that and all this.

Don Ward stated, I don’t know the new rules, I don’t, if it wasn’t under 30,000 they didn’t have to…

Mike Smolek stated, because for being an elected official my house has to have that because that’s where my office is.

Director Weaver stated, you’re getting into building codes and we don’t address building codes.

Mike Smolek stated, that’s what I’m saying, if Dave’s not going to be a part of these old ones, who’s responsible.

Director Weaver stated, well like Don mentioned, in this situation, this building were dealing with should have gone thru the state and been approved thru the state at the time it was built. We can’t verify that it was.

Mike Smolek stated, but if there going to turn around and do all these other things to it, it really falls out of that realm because you’re not doing it for what it was approved for.

Attorney Altman stated, I agree totally.

Don Ward stated, well that’s what I say, we can ask for as built plans and we wouldn’t be out of order. I don’t think to do that.

Attorney Altman stated, I think that clearly our ordinance really does say that. It’s a little bit, it’s not even in code very much.

Don Ward stated, it’s a building; it should have had a set of plans. Should have had a building permit, should have been zoned properly, but apparently not of that was done. If all that were done and we had a set of plans we’d have…

Attorney Altman stated, Doc, I’d sure appoint a committee and maybe the same 5 people you’ve already got on committee let them do this as a proposed ordinance and advertising.

President Charles Anderson stated, I think we all need to look over this ordinance that she gave us and then come back and then do that later, I don’t think we need to get this all done before Christmas or anything like that.

Mike Smolek asked, where would I look up if I wanted to look up state codes and stuff? Just

Director Weaver stated, I don’t look up state building codes. I can’t answer that.

Mike Smolek asked, call Dave, he’ll know?

Attorney Altman stated, I think Dave would be the quickest way.

Director Weaver stated, or his secretary. I know he’s got them in his office but I don’t know that they are online. Because I know they sell those code books. You may have to go in his office and look at them.

President Charles Anderson stated, you know what all your going to want to ask then, as far as this PUD, are we going to get it over with this next meeting or…

Director Weaver stated, I think that’s what the committee is for.

President Charles Anderson stated, well it is but they need to ask …

Don Ward stated, well the committee will have to meet and decide whether or not…

Mike Smolek stated, you want to meet a half hour before we meet with them to get an idea of what were going to do and ask for.

Don Ward stated, it would be a good idea if we had a meeting before we met with them, or an hour…

Jim Mann Jr. stated, I agree with that, definitely.

Don Ward stated, because once there into it they will be hostile and maybe not nasty but they will be bucking, they are going to keep telling you that there spending a lot of money. That’s what they keep telling me.

President Charles Anderson stated, well there trying to make a lot of money too.

Director Weaver stated, they need to realize too that they need to get the information to me too so I can get it out to the people who need …

Don Ward stated, well I think they knew that they didn’t have enough copies and enough time…

Director Weaver stated, well they make the copies next door.

Jim Mann Jr. stated, Tim and Charlie are used to doing things with single family dwellings, this is a new area to me, what I know them to do, maybe they’ve done these before.

Director Weaver stated, not that I’m aware of.

Attorney Altman stated, not in White County they haven’t.

Jim Mann Jr. stated, they have that warehouse down on the south end of town.

President Charles Anderson stated, the only other thing was talking about paying Don.

Director Weaver stated, any objections for me paying him for 2 meetings.

President Charles Anderson asked, do we have a motion to pay him for a couple days he has? 2 on it, so moved. Anything else we got.

Attorney Altman stated, cheapest money we spent.

Director Weaver stated, too Don, you still need to get us a bill for the engineering fees on Meadowbrook so we can pay you for that. Don also got some information for us on the John Freeman Meadowbrook subdivision.

Attorney Altman stated, just an updated the expense of the road.

Don Ward asked, have they looked at it yet?

Attorney Altman stated, no, no, not yet. There working on it there. I requested a discovery on it.

President Charles Anderson stated, so your homework is to read Diann’s ordinance attached to it and then we’ll discuss…

Attorney Altman stated, we’ve had a motion and second.

President Charles Anderson stated, meeting adjourned.

The meeting adjourned.

Respectfully submitted,

Donald W. Ward, Secretary

White County Area Plan Commission

Diann Weaver, Director

White County Area Plan Commission



















Document Prepared By: __White County Area Plan, _______________________________________________