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The White County Area Plan Commission met Monday, November 10, 2008 at 7:30 p.m. in the Commissioners’ Meeting Room, Second Floor, County Building, Monticello, Indiana.

Members attending were: Jim Mann Jr., Mike Smolek, Charles Anderson, Donald W. Ward, Dennis Sterrett, and David Scott. Also attending were Attorney Altman and Director Weaver.

 

Visitors Attending were: Charles R. Mellon, John Raines, Don Pauken, Paul Roller, Jim Smith, James C. Smith, Janis Lee Fultz, Floyd Fultz and Ben Woodhouse (Deputy).

The meeting was called to order by President Charles Anderson and roll call was taken. Dave Scott made a motion to dispense with reading and approve the minutes of the October 14, 2008 meeting. Motion was seconded by Mike Smolek and carried unanimously.

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#964 Floyd & Janice Lee Fultz; The property is located on 2.50 acres, Out SW cor SE SW 29-27-3, in Union Township, located West of Monticello at 1320 Hanawalt Road.

Violation: There is an existing kennel on the property without proper zoning or an approved Special Exception.

Request: They are requesting to rezone from R-2 to A-1.

President Anderson asked, do we have anyone here representing, you want to come forward and state your name as far as representing their request?

Floyd Fultz stated, Floyd Fultz.

President Anderson stated, you don’t have to just say it a little louder.

Floyd Fultz stated, Floyd Fultz.

President Anderson stated, okay. Commissioners have any questions about that request? If not does anybody in the audience have any questions about your request? You want to come forward and state your name.

Sue Smith stated, my names Sue Smith, I live on the east side of the property. I would like to see the kennel gone. He doesn’t live there and do you know what it’s like to sleep in a dog kennel


all night long? That’s all we hear is barking dogs, nobody controls them, there’s cats running everywhere and the dogs bark continuously. It’d be nice to have a peaceful neighborhood for a change. This has been 10 years worth.

President Anderson stated, all right.

Sue Smith stated, and I wish you consider not doing that, do away with the kennel please.

President Anderson stated, all right, do we have anybody else that has any questions about the request at all?

Don Pauken stated, I’m Don Pauken, I live at 1187 Hanawalt which approximately 1300’ from the property and my wife is basically unable to walk so she’s confined to a wheelchair so she is basically home bound and our living room, living area basically faces towards the west which is where the property is in question and especially this past summer at times there’s barking dogs have been almost continuous for hours and I’m not exaggerating for hours they bark and nothing, nobody attempts to quiet them down. Sometimes it’s so aggravating that, to my wife especially that she has to close the windows on that side of the house to quiet it down so it’s not good and it’s a definite nuisance. I looked over the new zoning ordinance and of course it’s designed to promote public health, safety, and general welfare, uh, the definition of general welfare is a little bit ambiguous also, it’s happiness and well being according to the dictionary and now a kennel in this location does not provide the expected happiness and well being for the neighbors for the neighbors certainly. In the new ordinance although this is under home occupation, it does give you some idea I think of what general welfare is intended to be and I’ll read that little section to you, it’s 312H, no home occupation shall create noise, dust, smell, smoke, glare, electrical interference, fire hazard or any other hazard or nuisance to any greater or more frequent extend then is expected or appropriate experienced in residential neighborhood or in no home occupation exists in the case and then it goes on from there. Basically what it’s saying is no noise or nuisance beyond normally expected residential areas, now there’s at least 15 residences within a quarter mile in both directions of this petitioners location and that’s not counting the trailer park which is within that quarter mile that I’m talking about. It’s not like this parcel that we’re talking about is in the country, it really isn’t there’s a lot of A-1 nearby but there’s also quite a few residences and it’s hard to obviously. Other people living in the area have taken care of their problems of this nature as they occur because they are there to take care of the problem, there are dogs that bark from other neighbors but that’s when a car goes by or a car drives in and so forth and that’s expected, that’s what dogs do and that doesn’t bother anybody but they’re there to take care of the problem, the petitioner does not live there, he lives in Monticello so he doesn’t hear it so it doesn’t get taken care of so they’re allowed to bark as long as they want to no matter what time of day or night it is. So uh, basically in conclusion uh, I think that this zoning, this should be denied tonight, a kennel in this location does not provide the expected happiness and well being for all of the neighbors involved, thank you.

President Anderson asked, anybody else have anything they want to, I’ll get to you in a second here Floyd. Anybody else have any objections out there to this? Go ahead Floyd you want to respond, want to just come forward and state your name.

Floyd Fultz stated, yep, my names Floyd Fultz. We got dogs all up and down the road out there, west around the coon club, dogs out there barking all day long and they bark. She’s got dogs, chase cats up and down the fence barks and there’s a new thing out there, I didn’t know anything about it till the guy that lives down there in one of those apartments, I found out she was going up and down the road and I stopped down there one day and talked to him I said hey I said the lady in the brick house been down to see you, he says no, he says she won’t be down here, I says why is that, he says I’ve been up there about 4 times cause the music was so loud coming out of the garage door, he couldn’t sleep then…

President Anderson stated, yea but we got to get away from, I mean that’s a different type of a noise then what these dogs are.

Floyd Fultz stated, I know it but it’s happened on both sides of us.

President Anderson stated, yea, yea.

Floyd Fultz stated, dogs bark on both sides.

Mike Smolek asked, what’s the capacity of the kennel?

Floyd Fultz asked, huh?

Mike Smolek asked, what’s the capacity of the kennel?

Floyd Fultz stated, I was told 4 or more.

Mike Smolek asked, how many can you hold right now?

Floyd Fultz stated, well all I got is more then what I should have to be honest with you.

Mike Smolek asked, how many do you have?

Floyd Fultz stated, 10.

Mike Smolek stated, there’s 10 dogs there.

Don Ward asked, are they all your dogs there?

Floyd Fultz stated, yea.

Don Ward stated, so it’s not a public kennel.

Floyd Fultz stated, no sir. And I probably won’t have them very long because they’s putting new pups and I just wanted to run them a little bit and then I’m going to probably get rid of them, I’ll have them all lined up and probably either 2 or 4, 2 old dogs is about to the limit and these other 2 is only about 3 years old each one of them and the pups there only 10 months old of course they’re going to bark.

Don Ward asked, you don’t live on the property though?

Floyd Fultz stated, no, I’ve got 2 daughters that live there. Then another thing is when the people that bought the property west of me and they rent it to someone else and what they done should never of been allowed but I wasn’t going to say nothing, I don’t like to say nothing about nothing, they was feeding cats over there, they had a board probably about 20” wide, 24” wide and about 3’ long and they’d buy a sack of food and spread it all out, I had a bobcat up there once and cats, you wouldn’t believe they was running everywhere just like rats and I talked to the guy that bought the property and he says you know Floyd he says I was going back there deer hunting one night about between 4 and 5 o’clock and he said there was a coon going up that fence row so fat it couldn’t run. It’d been down there eating cat food. Well I have every cat in the country well they loaded up a bunch of the old cats, took care of them but we’ve got some kittens out there yet. Way too many of them, they ain’t nothing to me. But I know what happens to get close to them dogs, they’ll kill it, that wouldn’t make me mad and I told them that but them dogs is in the fence. I catch coons during the summer time, I take them out and put them on the big creek, turn them loose to keep them dogs from barking that’s why the dogs bark, they’s coons and cats and deer that goes right through my yard and that’s what them dogs hear. Also they’re out there to help watch my trucks, I’ve had the windshield shot out of my bucket truck, I got a blue truck sitting back there between the buildings is, did have 3 in it and now it’s got 4 and a big hole on the top of the windshield. I’ve got a yellow ford truck sitting back there and Wes has got 3 bb holes in it and they ain’t getting in there by just staring at it.

President Anderson stated, yea, we’re kind of getting away Floyd from what we’re here for though when you keep bringing other things up like that.

Floyd Fultz stated, I’m excusing what the dogs there for.

President Anderson stated, yea. Any other commissioners have any questions for anybody or Floyd or the audience or anything?

Jim Smith stated, yea I have something.

President Anderson stated, you want to come forward and state your name.

Jim Smith stated, yea, my names Jim Smith, I’m Sues husband, I live right next to Floyd and a couple weeks ago I just stepped out on my back door of my deck and made a little recording of what’s going on, what we’ve been listening to is you’d like to hear.

President Anderson asked, is that a, is there a tape in there?

Jim Smith stated, it’s a recorder, um hum.

President Anderson stated, you’d have to enter that into the record wouldn’t they or would we have to enter that into the record?

Jim Smith stated, if you want to hear what these dogs sound like this is right out my back door.

President Anderson stated, yea, I’m sure we got the idea on that so.

Jim Smith stated, okay as far as the cats go and these coon dogs, these cats come out, he’s got cats running everywhere and when they come out at night, which cats do they antagonize these coon dogs and you know what happens then.

President Anderson stated, they start barking.

Jim Smith stated, they bark all night. That’s all I have, thank you.

President Anderson asked, Floyd are those you’re cats or are they stray cats or are they…

Floyd Fultz stated, all them strays from them ones cats that come in there.

President Anderson stated, okay.

Floyd Fultz stated, yea my daughters had…

President Anderson stated, cats out there.

Floyd Fultz stated, a few cats out there, nothing like this.

President Anderson stated, okay. Any commissioners have any questions at all for Floyd? I’d say lets go ahead and vote then.

The results of the vote were as follows: 1 affirmative and 5 negative. This will be presented to the County Commissioners for their action.

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#965 Ruth N. Roller; The property is located on 1.368 acres, Out SW ¼ 28-27-3, in Lincoln Township, located south of Idaville at 94 N. 1150 E.

Violation: None

Request: They are requesting to rezone from A-1 to R-1.

President Anderson asked, do we have anybody here representing that request? Do you want to come forward and state your name?

Paul Roller stated, Paul Roller.

President Anderson asked, do the commissioners have any questions for Mr. Roller about that request? And the reason you want to change the zoning is to?

Paul Roller stated, uh, we need to, we want to make an addition to our house and with other agriculture we can’t.

President Anderson stated, that’s pretty well written up in there what is for.

Paul Roller stated, right.

President Anderson stated, okay. Anybody in the audience have any questions about the request at all? Commissioners don’t have any questions let’s go ahead and vote.

The results of the vote were as follows: 6 affirmative and 0 negative. This will be presented to the County Commissioners for their action.

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#966 N. J. Properties II, LLC; The property is located on 1.154 acres, Part 28-27-3, in Union Township, located in the City of Monticello at the southeast corner of Fisher Street and First Street.

Violation: None

Request: They are requesting to rezone from I-1 to B-2.

This request was tabled until December 8, 2008.

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#325 N. J. Properties II, LLC; Requesting approval of a 2 lot subdivision to be known as Jordan Subdivision, on 2.344 acres, OUT N/S SE SW 28-27-3. The property is located in the City of Monticello at 821 N. First Street.

This request was tabled until December 8, 2008.

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President Anderson stated, so that’s it for the regular meeting. We’ve got a business meeting or amendments to the ordinance next if anybody wants to leave right now they can leave if they don’t want to stay for the business meeting. Dwight you don’t have to stay for a business meeting if you don’t want to. Okay the amendment is 12.2-1 setting a hearing or meeting White County Zoning Ordinance.

Director Weaver stated, this is the same one that we discussed at the last meeting.

President Anderson stated, yea.

Director Weaver stated, I’ve advertised it and it is ready for a vote.

President Anderson stated, okay. I think we’re going to need 6 to pass this.

Attorney Altman stated, yea, from a legal point of view the amendment or the change of language quite frankly is as necessary and just makes the ordinance read correctly and that’s all.

President Stimmel asked, do the commissioners have any questions about it?

Jim Mann asked, yea what, I’ve been kind of out of touch here for a couple of weeks what prompted this, I mean what had to change?

Attorney Altman stated, the red, do you have one that shows the red changes? Here let me show you the red one that shows the part that has been add real quickly.

Jim Mann stated, oh okay.

Attorney Altman stated, now here, 13 is also there on the second page.

Jim Mann stated, okay.

Attorney Altman stated, just making procedures a little bit…

Jim Mann stated, clearer.

Attorney Altman stated, clearer yes, and more depth.

Jim Mann stated, okay, thank you.

President Anderson asked, any other questions at all? Let’s go ahead and vote.

Attorney Altman stated, okay on the amendment on the zoning ordinance ballot, amending 12.2.1, the 6 votes cast, 6 vote yes to the amendment. It will be forwarded to the legislative bodies with a positive recommendation.

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President Anderson asked, do you have any other business you want to…

Director Weaver stated, I just want to pass out for the zoning ordinance and subdivision ordinance I have new cover pages on those that show the adoption dates for each of the entities.

Mike Smolek asked, are you going to get a corrected page for this one then too?

Director Weaver stated, you will get a, yea once it’s approved, once it’s passed.

President Anderson stated, I already got one.

Director Weaver stated, there are 2 different ones.

President Anderson stated, oh 2 different ones, okay.

Director Weaver stated, yea, your going to get 2 of these.

President Anderson stated, okay.

Director Weaver stated, there, ones for the subdivision ordinance, one’s zoning ordinance.

Attorney Altman stated, oh okay I’m doing zoning, yea I’m doing zoning and you can do the other.

Director Weaver stated, that’s all I have.

President Anderson asked, do you have anything to report Jerry or anything like that.

Attorney Altman stated, uh, not really.

President Anderson stated, okay.

Attorney Altman stated, no, not really, uh I just wasn’t going to make record on it so that’s the only reason.

President Anderson asked, does anybody else have any business?

Dave Stimmel stated, Dave Stimmel, It’s one of the things that I think that we had talked about in the BZA and we’ve talked about this originally and that’s chapter 13 in the zoning ordinance and that was the enforcement chapter and between Diann and Jerry and I in the last month or so and actually I was wanting to do this quite awhile ago but we just, I dropped the ball, I didn’t get moving things well enough the line but we’ve made some revisions to that and I guess what I’m asking is I’m wondering if Diann could make sure that each member of the Area Plan gets a copy of those revisions and the old version as we had discussed at the BZA meeting Diann.

Director Weaver asked, the proposed is that what you’re talking about?

Dave Stimmel stated, the proposed versus the original.

Director Weaver stated, yea, I can do that.

Dave Stimmel stated, and hopefully bring that to a vote or so we can at least change the verbiage and the, and the typographical errors that we found in that particular chapter.

Director Weaver asked, do you want me to also send them a copy of the um, estimated costs that are involved?

Dave Stimmel stated, I don’t think it’d be a bad thing but I don’t know that it’s absolutely necessary.

Director Weaver stated, okay.

Dave Stimmel stated, I can see any reason not to.

Director Weaver stated, okay.

Dave Stimmel stated, there was an attempt made, I don’t know whether you informed this board or not but to try to rationalize the costs and the fees that we’re charged by the Area Plan office and trying to do that by virtue of the hours and the time and the money spent on each one of those things. In other words if it costs $400 to put a variance together maybe we should be charging $400 for a variance, okay and I think the reality as I read it and when Diann sent that out you can make your own conclusions was that actually the cost to do that far exceeds what normal public people would be able to pay quite frankly so that maybe kind of out the window I think as we go along. But anyway that was just my thoughts Diann it’s up to you.

Director Weaver stated, okay.

Dave Stimmel stated, Jerry.

Attorney Altman stated, you’re wanting basically for this to get reviewed and adopted as soon as possible.

Dave Stimmel stated, yes, chapter 13, I don’t think there’s any reason to hold back on that. Do you Diann?

Director Weaver stated, no, no.

Dave Stimmel stated, I mean we’ve talked about it, the BZA members that I’ve talked to which has been all of them have agreed that that’s okay and that there’s nothing that they really want to change in that. I’ve talked to Jerry and Charlie and…

Attorney Altman stated, and as the attorney for both Boards I agree with you that I think it would be a good idea to get these adopted as soon as possible.

Dave Stimmel stated, right, right. I agree so I just wanted to bring that up and ask if you could make sure that that gets in front of this board next, the next meeting and hopefully get it passed and…

Director Weaver stated, I can do that.

Dave Stimmel stated, and move that along and we can talk about it that night if there’s any discussion that needs to be. That’s all I have thank you.

President Anderson stated, okay. Are you done with your business?

Director Weaver stated, um hum.

President Anderson stated, so the bad guy has to get up here. In January the positions of Area Plan Director and Area Plan Lawyer will be open for appointment and at this time I want to ask the Board if we want, the commissioners of Area Plan if they want to advertise for candidates for these positions and grant interviews for those that we feel qualify and I think we probably have to vote on something like that to see if we want to do that. Do you think we have to or…

Attorney Altman stated, no, I don’t think so.

President Anderson stated, it doesn’t have to be brought to a vote, okay.

Attorney Altman stated, I think if you decide you want to do it…

President Anderson stated, you know we want to extend the invitation to vote Diann and you, that you can, you know apply too and for an interview and you know Area Plan has been getting, the position has been getting tougher and tougher, you know it’s an unforgiving position too. I think the board has been wanting to get into a more, you know try to find somebody that’s a little more, oh that has some schooling in Area Plan. I don’t know whether we can or not. I don’t know exactly know where we’re going with this either. Don’t know what’s going to happen with it. Do the commissioners have any other responses they want to…

Don Ward stated, well it depends on how much they want to pay.

President Anderson stated, well I don’t think it’s going to pay anymore then what’s on the schedule.

Don Ward stated, you may not get a college grad.

President Anderson stated, yep. Um, does anybody else have any feelings on that right now? You want to take a vote on that to see if we were…

Don Ward stated, well I think…

President Anderson stated, or you want to wait, but I mean if we’re going to do this we’ve got to get it started right away.

Don Ward stated, it’s basically settle at the…

President Anderson stated, now if we don’t even come up with an Area Plan Director by the time January rolls around we’re going to have to appoint an interim director and the same with the lawyer, things like that too. But you guys are welcome to apply for these positions if you want to too and then go through an interview with us on that. You know we’ve had, especially this past year we’ve had a lot of problems and we got to do something. Do something different. Anybody else have anything they want to say?

Jim Mann stated, the only thing I would say is if you, I don’t know what has been done with regard to any provisions to any job descriptions and details that each party…

President Anderson stated, and I’ve got one that we…

Jim Mann stated, you know each position would, would have requirements for them.

President Anderson stated, yea, we’ve all ready started on a job description on this…

Jim Mann stated, okay.

President Anderson stated, and I’ve got that in a folder here that I’m going to pass that to you guys right now.

Mike Smolek asked, has there ever been a job description?

President Anderson asked, I think Diann was requested to do, did you ever do one?

Director Weaver stated, yea, we’ve submitted job descriptions to the Commissioners.

President Anderson stated, they would be in the Auditors office but I didn’t realize that those were in there either on that so.

Don Ward stated, I didn’t know we had one.

President Anderson stated, I don’t know if there’s a job description for the lawyer of Area Plan.

Don Ward stated, they don’t have one for us.

Director Weaver stated, no, there’s not one really for you guys but there is for each of the positions in the office.

Attorney Altman stated, I’ve never seen one for the attorney.

President Anderson stated, I don’t think there is one either.

Director Weaver stated, I haven’t either.

President Anderson stated, and as far as you know the, you guys don’t even get a contract or you don’t even get a contract to you.

Attorney Altman stated, I have not.

President Anderson asked, you don’t get a contract either on that?

Attorney Altman stated, no, no. I haven’t had since 72 but…

Don Ward stated, it’s basically appointed 1 year at a time then.

Attorney Altman stated, yea, basically.

Don Ward stated, because we’ve always voted in January.

President Anderson stated, it comes our first meeting in January which would run about the 13th of January this year, I think. Does anybody else have anything to say about that? Do you want to go ahead and proceed with that? Weren’t they going to have a…

Don Ward stated, well I think your last executive meeting with the BZA and the Council and all and I think that was the final decision. Isn’t that the way you got it, what about it Dave?

Mike Smolek stated, that how I got…

Don Ward stated, I understood that that’s what they were going to do and…

President Anderson stated, yea but I then I don’t want to leave this out hanging for these 2 not to know what’s going on either and that’s why I elected tonight to tell you guys what’s going on.

Don Ward stated, the job description is one of the things that they wanted done.

President Anderson stated, yea.

Don Ward stated, so that was my understanding anyway and I got a job description today, actually I got it Friday evening from Greg Bossaer.

President Anderson stated, yea, now the only thing in there, Diann doesn’t do those permits anymore, the building permits.

Director Weaver stated, we do, do permits in the office.

President Anderson asked, you do?

Director Weaver stated, yes we do, it started up with the new ordinance, um hum. We do improvement location permits.

President Anderson stated, okay.

Don Ward stated, say that again.

Director Weaver stated, improvement location permits.

President Anderson asked, but Dave still does…

Director Weaver stated he does a building permit and we do…

President Anderson stated, building permits.

Director Weaver stated, an improvement location permit.

Don Ward stated, I thought he did them but you were actually responsible for them.

President Anderson stated, but it’s an improvement location permit, okay.

Don Ward stated, well…

Jim Mann asked, so was there a, in terms of the job descriptions who was, I mean if there was one that’s been in existence but yet there’s a desire to revamp it…

President Anderson stated, no we still, it’s still a work in progress but I don’t think we need job descriptions to advertise for candidates for the office because it has to be advertised for 2 weeks and then we have to take…

Jim Mann asked, wouldn’t a candidate want to see the job description?

President Anderson stated, yea but we’re going to have…

Jim Mann stated, before they dig in to…

President Anderson stated, there going to have a partial description on it.

Mike Smolek asked, can you make some copies of this because we all didn’t get one, that way we can go over it and…

President Anderson asked, what is it?

Mike Smolek stated, that’s the one that…

President Anderson stated, I got them in here, I’ve got some printed up for you.

Mike Smolek stated, oh you got some, okay, okay.

President Anderson stated, so she don’t have to do it.

Jim Mann stated, and obviously I apologize I didn’t mean, I just…

Mike Smolek asked, and you’re sure there wasn’t, you got a copy of the original one.

Director Weaver stated, I’ve got a copy of the one that was submitted to the Council and the Commissioners about 2 years ago.

Mike Smolek asked, can you get a copy to us or email.

President Anderson asked, or we can get one.

Director Weaver stated, I could email it to you.

President Anderson stated, okay.

Mike Smolek stated, because I’ve never seen it and I don’t think Don’s ever seen it.

Several Board Members are talking at once.

President Anderson stated, you want to go ahead and call the meeting, anybody motion for adjournment or…

Mike Smolek made a motion to adjourn.

Don Ward seconded the motion.

The meeting adjourned.

Respectfully submitted,

Donald W. Ward, Secretary

White County Area Plan Commission

Diann Weaver, Director

White County Area Plan Commission

 

 

 

Document Prepared By: __White County Area Plan, _______________________________________________

 

“I AFFIRM, UNDER THE PENALTIES FOR PERJURY, THAT I HAVE TAKEN REASONABLE CARE TO REDACT EACH SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER IN THIS DOCUMENT, UNLESS REQUIRED BY LAW.”

 

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