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The White County Area Plan Commission met Monday, October 12, 1999, at 7:30 p.m. in the Commissioners’ Meeting Room, Second Floor, County Building, Monticello, Indiana.

Members attending were: Jay Clawson, Ray Butz, Charles Anderson, Ron Pollock, Stephen Fisher, Scott Kyburz, and Rick Raderstorf. Also attending was Director Diann Weaver. 

Visitors Attending were: Arthur & Mildred Munro, Dave Dellinger, Alice Niehaus, Larry Berger, Charles E. Ward, Travis Van Meter, Ed Cox, C. Mellon, Terry L. Smith, Willie Cross, Harry E. Wayne, Sharon Pearson, Duane Pearson, Phyllis Belden, Ken Elliott, Richard L. Conklin Jr. for Charles Lucy, Joe Farr for Sidney Eskenazi, Harry D. Wayne and Norma Wayne 

 

The meeting was called to order by President Charles Anderson and roll call was taken. Jay Clawson made a motion to dispense with reading and approve the minutes of June 14, 1999 and July 12, 1999. Motion was seconded by Ron Pollock and carried unanimously.

 

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#689 Willie and Carol Cross; Requesting to rezone from A-1 to I-1 on 0.631 acres. The property is located ½ mile East of the county line, on the North side of U.S. Highway 24.

 

President Anderson asked, do we have anyone representing this request?

 

Willie Cross was representing the request.

President Anderson asked, do we have anyone in the audience with any questions about this request? Do the Commissioners have any questions about this request?

 

Director Weaver stated, this was tabled from the last meeting. We did get a revised legal description. Last meeting he had asked to rezone all of his property and now it’s changed where it’s only part of his property.

 

Jay Clawson asked, he’s not rezoning the house?

 

Director Weaver stated, right.

 

President Anderson asked, do the Commissioners have any questions for Mr. Cross?

 

Director Weaver stated, it’s right on Highway 24, West of Wolcott.

 

Jay Clawson asked, what’s surrounding him?

 

Director Weaver stated, it’s all agricultural ground around it, on down and to the West of it a little bit is business property, industrial property.

 

Jay Clawson asked, that’s where the trucking company is?

 

Director Weaver stated, that’s where the trucking companies are, yes.

 

Jay Clawson asked, is that zoned I-1?

 

Director Weaver stated, he tabled it because it was originally to rezone all of the property and he did not want to rezone the house.

 

Jay Clawson asked, did Attorney Altman have a chance to look at the legal description to make sure that it’s correct?

 

Director Weaver stated, probably not since there was not anything new sent to him. I don’t know that he checks the legal descriptions anyway, Jay.

 

President Anderson stated, let’s go ahead and vote.

 

With no further discussion the Board voted.

 

The results of the vote were as follows: 7 affirmative and 0 negative. This will be forwarded to the County Commissioners for their action.

 

Director Weaver stated, this will be Monday the 18th, that’s usually at 8:30 in the morning.

 

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#691 Hamstra Builders, Inc.; Requesting to rezone from B-1, B-2 and I-1 to B-2 on 17.913 acres. The property is located in the City of Monticello at 914 N. Main Street to 1004 N. Main Street.

 

President Anderson asked, is there anyone to represent this request?

 

Terry Smith was representing the request.

 

President Anderson asked, do we have anyone in the audience with any questions about this request? Do the Commissioners have any questions?

 

Jay Clawson stated, it looks like they are just trying to get all of their zoning into one and clean it up.

 

Director Weaver stated, part of this property, when the zoning maps were done up this was brought in as an “I” zoning and there’s been some rezoning around it, and somehow this one little piece got missed. We have part of it as B-1 and part of it as B-2 so this is going to bring it all into one zoning.

 

President Anderson stated, let’s go ahead and vote if the Commissioners don’t have any other questions.

 

With no further discussion the Board voted.

 

The results of the vote were as follows: 7 affirmative and 0 negative. This will be presented to the City Council for their action,.

 

Director Weaver stated, that meeting should be Monday. What time does that begin?

 

Jay Clawson stated, it beings at 7:00.

 

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#692 Harry Wayne; Requesting to rezone from B-1 to R-1 on 1.00 Acre. The property is located west of Monon at 1190 W. State Road 16.

 

President Anderson asked, is there anyone here to represent this request?

 

Harry Wayne was representing the request.

 

President Anderson asked, is there anyone with any questions about the request?

 

Charles Ward stated, I live West on State Road 16 also. I just wonder why at one time that was agriculture then it went to business? Why can’t it go back to agriculture, being that there is livestock and so forth on both sides of his fence? There is a fertilizer plant on the back side of the railroad tracks which is Monon Farm Service and there is also livestock on the North side of the fence. We just want to know if that’s going to be a problem by making that residential. The livestock have been there for the past 30 years or so.

 

President Anderson asked, on this particular 1 acre of property?

 

Charles Ward stated, no on both sides of it.

 

President Anderson asked, all this time there has been agriculture, chemicals and things like that?

 

Charles Ward stated, that’s right, across the tracks there is Monon Farm Service and on both sides and on the North side there is livestock on all sides of this and then you move that into a residential. So what kind of problems does that create to make our living off of livestock?

 

Jay Clawson asked, is there a confinement building on your property? Do you have a hog confinement?

 

Charles Ward stated, I don’t have any hog confinement but, I do have cattle.

 

Steve Fisher stated, what he is questioning there is it’s zoned B-1 now, and he’s trying to get it zoned to R-1, which is more of a restrictive.

 

Jay Clawson stated, I know but, if there is any kind of confinement building there can’t be a home within 1,500 feet?

 

Director Weaver stated, 1,320 feet.

 

President Anderson asked, do you have confinement cattle buildings?

 

Charles Ward stated, not a cattle building but, sometimes there are 67 head of cattle in a matter of, in fact there are some cattle that adjoin the fence on both sides.

 

President Anderson asked, but you just have open range out there?

 

Charles Ward stated, yes.

 

Jay Clawson asked, are there any other livestock people that have confinement buildings there within a quarter of a mile?

 

Charles VanMeter stated, not any buildings. I live West on State Road 16 right next to his property. We own probably 15 head of cows running right next to his fence. We have been there for…

 

President Anderson asked, is this all pasture ground out there?

 

Charles VanMeter stated, yes.

 

President Anderson asked, you’re not farming it and then putting them into cornstalks? It’s all pasture ground around there that you use?

 

Charles VanMeter stated, yes. We feed probably 20 head right out next to that fence along with the 15 other feeders.

 

President Anderson asked, do you have bulk feeders?

 

Charles VanMeter stated, yes, and the way that I understand it is if it leaves, if something would happen to me and it didn’t have livestock in there for a certain period of time and we go to put it back in there could be a possibility that we couldn’t do that because of that being residential. Is that right?

 

President Anderson stated, yes.

 

Director Weaver stated, if it’s confinement. That’s where you get involved with the confinement buildings and the confined feeding areas.

 

Charles VanMeter asked, if that happens to go in residential are there any restrictions that can be put on us being that we’re already agriculture?

 

Jay Clawson stated, where you guys, I wish that Greg Bossaer was here because, he’s our County Agent and he’s a lot more up to speed. The problem that I see would be if you were raising hogs and wanted to put up a confinement building, then it would have to be over a quarter of a mile from any existing house that was there. With the lay of this, this being in a triangle, is there enough room even with R-1 setbacks to allow for setbacks even if we rezone this without having a plot map of this. Do you have a plot map of this?

 

Director Weaver stated, no, I don’t.

 

Jay Clawson stated, because, it just shows it as a triangle, I don’t know what your depth is.

 

Director Weaver stated, I can’t give you that answer.

 

Jay Clawson asked, what are the setbacks on an R-1? The front setbacks?

 

Director Weaver stated, the R-1 setbacks are going to be less restrictive than the A-1 setbacks. I also want to add the reason that he is requesting this is, he is trying to refinance his property and his bank is requiring this.

 

Jay Clawson asked, is there already a home on this?

 

Director Weaver stated, there is already an existing home on the property.

 

Jay Clawson stated, so it’s not like they are going to be building anything there anyway. I mean it’s already a home so it’s not like it’s open property.

 

Director Weaver stated, right, there is already an existing home on the property and if they are planning on building that is something that we need to ask them.

 

Ron Pollock asked, is this approximately an acre?

 

Director Weaver stated, yes.

 

President Anderson asked, is there anyone else that would like to make a comment on this?

 

Edgar Cox stated, I live West of Monon on S.R. 16 and we’re out of the City limits. My property adjoins his on the West. I do have some livestock and I’m interested in what this is going to do if I want to continue with some livestock there.

 

President Anderson asked, how many acres do you have there?

 

Edgar Cox stated, 1 acre.

 

Ron Pollock stated, I understand that there is already a home on that property.

 

Edgar Cox asked, on whose property?

 

Travis VanMeter stated, it was also that way when it was agriculture also.

 

President Anderson stated, the house is grandfathered in. 

 

Ron Pollock stated, it’s grandfathered in.

 

President Anderson asked, the one-acre would be grandfathered in. What if that house would burn?

 

Director Weaver stated, if that house would burn then he would not be able to build back, that’s why the bank is requiring this.

 

Charles Ward stated, all that I’m asking is this, beings that we were there and it was agriculture and that’s the way that we make our living and so forth, what if he sells to someone else and then someone else starts complaining about the smell, this and that and so forth? Now if it’s already there is someone going to say we have to go or does this one acre take priority over 25 acres and so forth. That’s all that I’m asking, I’m not trying to do anything to the boy, with what he’s wanting to do but, it was agriculture and then you went business with it. I thought also because there was no place to get off of the road or even back a truck into that place or anything like that. So now I’m just wondering why does it not go back to agriculture instead of going to residential and cause more problems? He moved out there, it was that way, he built a house there, and it was that way.

 

President Anderson asked, do you want to make any statements with what you want to do with the property or why you want to change from agriculture to residential?

 

Harry Wayne stated, I do not want it rezoned, I have to because of your silly compliance, to be honest with you. Your ordinance that you changed in 1995, if I had my way I would not be here. This man has done nothing but object to me since it was rezoned. I have nothing in it the lawyers at the bank said that it has to be rezoned. That’s all that I can tell you. If I had my way it would stay as it is.

 

President Anderson asked, are you renting the property or do you live there?

 

Harry Wayne stated, I live there.

 

President Anderson asked, you’re living on this property?

 

Harry Wayne stated, yes I do.

 

President Anderson asked, so your wanting just a loan for that house?

 

Harry Wayne stated, no they told me, the company that has it now it has to be rezoned because of your ordinance that’s all that I can tell you. She has spoken with the bank so that’s all that I can tell you.

 

Director Weaver stated, the reason too, R-1 setbacks are not as restrictive as an A-1 setback requirement so it is to his advantage to rezone to an R-1 instead of an A-1 incase he would want to add on to the home or whatever in the future, he would not have as restrictive setbacks.

 

President Anderson asked, the bank requires him to R-1?

 

Director Weaver stated, they are requiring it to be rezoned so they can rebuild the house if the house would burn down.

 

President Anderson stated, could he build on the foundation that he is on right now?

 

Director Weaver stated, I don’t know what his setbacks are at this time.

 

Charles Ward asked, all that I’m asking is, are you saying that if you vote in favor of him that the bank is telling you guys what to do? That’s all that I’m asking, I have not fought against him it’s just the fact that the principal is not right to be putting things there because he wanted the drainage and all of that stuff.

 

President Anderson stated, the bank is not going to tell us what to do anyway. What we go by is what is the best use of that land.

 

Charles Ward stated, basically what it boils down to is, the bank is requesting it more than he is.

 

President Anderson stated, it’s requesting of him. It doesn’t have anything to do with us. I don’t even know what bank it is.

 

Jay Clawson stated, residential is much better than business, like you said it’s not a good business location and I would like to know, if we had legal council here tonight, was to make sure what your rights were. I’m thinking that since you were already there that you wouldn’t be able to loose your rights to raise your livestock because your out in the country anyway.

 

Charles Ward stated, that’s what we’re looking for.

 

Jay Clawson stated, again all that I would like to say is that is for sure because, it’s your property. You’re there and the people that would look at the house would see cattle there and know, if you had this property and brought cattle in after the fact then they might object.

 

Charles Ward stated, I would agree with that.

 

President Anderson stated, later on if someone comes in there it’s not going to be a question if you can have animals around there, I don’t think that there’s any problem with that, it’s going to be a question whether that guy is going to try to take you to court. That’s doesn’t come through us that’s going to come through his lawyer and what ever he wants to try to do but anyone that lives in the county should know that they are going to smell manure.

 

Charles Ward stated, that’s right. Even in town you will.

 

President Anderson stated, we have a recommendation here to table it until we get a lawyer to look at this and tell us exactly whether you guys will be in trouble or not.

 

Ron Pollock stated, possibly we can have Greg Bossaer here too.

 

President Anderson asked, do you have a question?

 

Harry Wayne stated, yes, I do. This has been put off and it’s been put off for over a month and a half, the lady there I believe that her name is Director Weaver knows that I have to have an answer tomorrow, one way or the other.

 

President Anderson stated, it’s his, if he wants to go ahead and run it we will go ahead and run it through. I don’t think that you would be very happy but, I can’t tell you for sure but we can run it through, your going to need, for a positive recommendation your going to need 6 of this Board to agree with it too and there’s only 7 people here right now.

 

Jay Clawson stated, it has to go to the Commissioners too.

 

President Anderson stated, it would have to go to the Commissioners anyway after we do it so tomorrow is not going to give you an answer anyway, tonight is not going to give you an answer because the Commissioners can still turn it down.

 

Harry Wayne stated, I understand that sir, but my question to this Board is all of the neighbors on both sides and all sides can say what they want but the person living there can’t.

 

President Anderson stated, your representation, you said what you were going to say about it. Do you have anything else that you want to say? Everyone on all sides are involved with it too depending on what happens with that piece of property. Would you rather go ahead and have the vote tonight or would you rather wait, it will be another month.

 

Harry Wayne stated, I have to give the bank an answer tomorrow.

 

President Anderson stated, I would say let’s go ahead and vote then. Is there anything else?

 

Jay Clawson stated, I don’t think that the adjoining property owners are going to be in trouble but I wish that we had Attorney Altman here to tell us for sure that they can’t have any recourse to come back and say anything against these people.

 

With no further discussion the Board voted.

 

The results of the vote were as follows 2 affirmative and 3 negative and 2 abstained. This will be presented to the County Commissioners for their action.

 

Director Weaver stated, the request has been given no recommendation. It will still be forwarded on to the County Commissioners.

 

President Anderson stated, it will be forward to them with no recommendation.

 

Director Weaver stated, no recommendation.

 

President Anderson stated, later on you can bring this back later on for us if you have to.

 

Steve Fisher stated, the Commissioners have the final say.

 

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#693 Sidney D. Eskenazi, Owner; Sandor Development Company, Applicant; Requesting to rezone from R-2 to B-2 on lots 8, 9 and part of lot 10 in Turner’s Addition. The property is located in the City of Monticello at 828 N. Main Street to 834 N. Main Street.

 

President Anderson asked, do we have anyone representing this request?

 

Joe Farr stated, I work for Sandor Development Company.

 

President Anderson asked, do we have anyone with any questions about this request?

 

Director Weaver stated, again, this is similar to the Hamstra request. This property is the location of the old Hook’s building and is currently zoned R-2 and we’re just trying to bring it into compliance.

 

Joe Farr stated, I think that it has been retail for 25 years or so.

 

Director Weaver stated, yes, it was done like that when the zoning maps were established.

 

President Anderson asked, on part of lot #10 what is the other part of lot #10 in compliance with the zoning?

 

Director Weaver asked, do you know where that exception is, is what he’s asking on lot #10?

 

Joe Farr stated, it’s possible that it’s a sale to Hardee’s to their parcel but I don’t, I know that I gave you a copy, here is the legal description. Mine just says lots #8, #9 & #10 in Turners Addition in the City of Monticello, Indiana.

 

Jay Clawson asked, do you want that changed as part of the permanent record?

 

Director Weaver stated, the legal description that he provided to us does have the exception on it.

 

Jay Clawson asked, #8, #9 & #10?

 

Director Weaver stated, with the exception of 150’ x 150’.

 

Joe Farr stated, I would assume that is the Hardee’s parcel.

 

President Anderson stated, let’s go ahead and vote.

 

With no further discussion the Board voted.

 

The results of the vote were as follows: 7 affirmative and 0 negative. This will be presented to the City of Monticello for their action,.

 

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#237 Charles Lucy; Requesting secondary approval of a 2 lot subdivision to be known as Lucy Subdivision. The property is located in the Town of Burnettsville at 204 and 206 S. West Street. 

Director Weaver stated, primary approval was given a couple of months ago and it’s just now coming back for secondary approval.

 

President Anderson asked, do we have any questions about this request?

 

Jay Clawson asked, he got his drainage approval right?

 

Director Weaver stated, yes.

 

President Anderson stated, if there is no other questions I say that we go ahead and vote.

 

Jay Clawson stated, the standards have been met, all of the things that we had questions on the first time have been brought up in the current plats. 

 

With no further discussion the Board voted. 

The Secondary Approval request for a subdivision to be known as Lucy Subdivision located in Town of Burnettsville, was approved by a vote of 7 to 0, based on a finding of fact that the Standards of the Subdivision Control Ordinance have been met, primary approval has been granted and the Subdivision is in Compliance. 

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#242 Richard M. Swank; Requesting primary and secondary approval of a 3 lot subdivision to be known Swank Subdivision on 4.084 acres. The property is located north of Monticello on the east side of State Road 39, just south of C.R. 250 N. This request was tabled from September 13, 1999.

 

President Anderson asked, is there anyone representing this request?

 

Dave Dellinger was representing the request.

 

President Anderson asked, is there anyone here with any questions about this request? Do the Commissioners have any questions? Have all of the improvements been done?

 

Director Weaver stated, yes, it does meet the Subdivision Ordinance. He’s laying these lots out along the highway so there are no new roads or anything to be put in.

 

With no further discussion the Board voted.

 

The Primary Approval Request for a 3 lot subdivision to be known as Swank Subdivsion located in Union Township, was approved by a vote of 7 to 0, based on a finding of fact that the Standards of the Subdivision Control Ordinance have been met.

 

Director Weaver stated, this is also ready for secondary approval. They have received their drainage. I take that back, they have submitted the drainage to the Board they have not yet received approval from the Drainage Board but my understanding is…

 

President Anderson asked, so we can do this pending approval of the drainage Board?

 

Director Weaver stated, yes. Is that right Dave?

 

Dave Dellinger stated, yes, that’s my understanding.

 

The Secondary Approval request for a subdivision to be known as Swank Subdivision located in Union Township, was approved by a vote of 7 to 0, based on a finding of fact that the Standards of the Subdivision Control Ordinance have been met, primary approval has been granted and the Subdivision is in Compliance. 

Director Weaver stated, this has received secondary approval contingent upon the approval from the Drainage Board on the drainage.

 

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#244 Arthur W. Munro; Requesting secondary approval of a 2 lot subdivision to be known as Munro Subdivision on 0.546 of an acre. The property is located in the Town of Wolcott on the southwest corner of School Street and Fourth Street.

 

President Anderson asked, do we have anyone here representing this request?

 

Arthur Munro was representing the request.

 

President Anderson asked, have all the improvements been presented?

 

Director Weaver stated, it’s on existing roads in the Town of Wolcott the reason that it did not go to secondary approval last month is because it did not have drainage approval, which it has now received.

 

President Anderson stated, let’s go ahead and vote.

 

With no further discussion the Board voted.

 

The Secondary Approval request for a subdivision to be known as Munro Subdivsion located in Town of Wolcott, was approved by a vote of 7 to 0, based on a finding of fact that the Standards of the Subdivision Control Ordinance have been met, primary approval has been granted and the Subdivision is in Compliance.

 

Arthur Munro asked, what is my next step on this?

 

Director Weaver stated, there is a 10-day waiting period before I can sign the plat. During that 10 days Mr. Milligan needs to get me the mylar copy of the plat. After the 10 day waiting period we can get it signed, and you will also have to come in and sign that, then after the 10 days I will sign it and then it will be recorded.

 

Arthur Munro asked, do you just want me to wait the 10 days and come in and sign it?

 

Director Weaver stated, if you want to or you can get in touch with Jim Milligan and sign it at his office or know when it’s coming to my office to sign it. However you want to handle that. 

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#245 Alice Niehaus; Requesting primary and secondary approval of a 2 lot subdivision to be known as Light Keeper Subdivision on 1.559 acres. The property is located East of Buffalo at 6969 N. State Road 39.

 

Alice Niehaus stated, it’s 1.80 acres.

 

Director Weaver stated, the information provided by your surveyor says 1.55 acres.

 

Alice Niehaus stated, what can I say, I need to do the paperwork my self and then it would have been right. I would have copied it from my papers and this is the second time that there has been a screw up and I’m not too happy about it.

 

President Anderson stated, the surveyor evidentially is the one that put it on there.

 

Alice Niehaus stated, I know. I have to pay for this aggravation.

 

President Anderson asked, do you want to continue?

 

Alice Niehaus stated, yes, please, I would like to get it over with.

 

President Anderson asked, it says North is it 6969 E State Road 39?

 

Alice Niehaus stated, yes, it’s all balled up. Are we going to be able to get this all straightened out afterwards?

 

Director Weaver stated, that’s only in the common description, that is not a major problem.

 

President Anderson asked, what about the amount of acreage?

 

Director Weaver stated, the amount of acres, the legal advertisement did not state a specific amount of acreage so we are okay there also.

 

President Anderson asked, do the Commissioners have any questions about this request?

 

Steve Fisher asked, you understand that with the existing house if something would happen to it won’t be able to be rebuilt?

 

Director Weaver stated, on the business zoning, yes. She is going to be selling that property and building a home on the new lot, is what her intentions are.

 

Alice Niehaus stated, if I would have been told that in the first place I would have subdivided that a long time ago and left the house residential but, I was misinformed once again by Planning and Zoning by the previous Director. I would have divided that into 3, I could have done business, residential and residential. This really is sad, the procedure that you go through because we don’t know coming in as private citizens, what is what you know.

 

President Anderson asked, do the Commissioners have any questions? Has it met all of the requirements of the subdivision?

 

Director Weaver stated, yes, it has.

 

President Anderson asked, do you have a question?

 

Charlie Mellon asked, is that East of Buffalo in the alfalfa field?

 

Alice Niehaus stated, it’s the big old white house.

 

Charlie Mellon stated, that’s in the Coonrod.

 

Alice Niehaus sated, exactly, that’s why it’s being changed because it’s confusing. This is what happened to Mr. Milligan, he thinks that Coonrod owned it, it’s been confusing.

 

Steve Fisher asked, Coonrod does not own it?

 

Alice Niehaus stated, no, I do. I have everything here to prove it, first and second title.

 

President Anderson asked, this first one will be primary approval?

 

Director Weaver stated, yes.

 

President Anderson stated, let’s go ahead and vote.

 

With no further discussion the Board voted.

 

The Primary Approval Request for a 2 lot subdivision to be known as Light Keeper Subdivsion located in Liberty Township, was approved by a vote of 7 to 0, based on a finding of fact that the Standards of the Subdivision Control Ordinance have been met.

 

Director Weaver stated, this is ready for secondary approval. They have received drainage approval and it is going on existing roads.

 

President Anderson asked, do the Commissioners have any questions about secondary approval? If not let’s go ahead and vote.

 

Jay Clawson asked, the drainage has already been approved?

 

Director Weaver stated, yes, it has.

 

With no further discussion the Board voted.

 

The Secondary Approval request for a subdivision to be known as Light Keeper Subdivision located in Liberty Township, was approved by a vote of 7 to 0, based on a finding of fact that the Standards of the Subdivision Control Ordinance have been met, primary approval has been granted and the Subdivsion is in Compliance.

 

Director Weaver stated, there is a 10 day waiting period before I can sign the plat.

 

Alice Niehaus asked, that means that I can’t get a building permit for 10 days?

 

Director Weaver stated, right and within that 10 days Jim needs to get me the mylar copy.

 

Alice Niehaus asked, how can I get this corrected?

 

Director Weaver asked, get what corrected?

 

Alice Niehaus stated, the address, the acreage.

 

Director Weaver stated, that’s on our end, I will get that taken care of. Actually, I think that everything is okay.

 

Jay Clawson stated, they didn’t do the math in hers, he needs to double check because it might be a mere thing, the legal description doesn’t add up to the amount of acreage.

 

Alice Niehaus stated, I will get it taken care of. 

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#246 Betty Fisher; Requesting primary and secondary approval of a 3 lot subdivision to be known as Stogie’s Cove on 2.122 acres. The property is located in Union Township on the South side of Chalmers Road, about 1/8 of a mile East of Oakdale Road.

 

President Anderson asked, do we have anyone representing this request?

 

Doyle Moore and Alice Fisher were representing the request.

 

President Anderson asked, do we have anyone here with any questions about this request? Do the Commissioners have any questions? Does it meet all of the standards of the subdivision?

 

Director Weaver stated, the only thing that I do have a question on and the Board has had a little more experience at this than what I have. There is not a dedicated road, there is an easement in this I think that the Board should discuss this and see if your going to accept this or not. That was my only concern.

 

President Anderson asked, how big is the easement on it?

 

Doyle Moore stated, 25’.

 

Director Weaver stated, my understanding from talking to Alice Fisher is there are existing homes on this property and they are wanting to sell part of it off which is the reason for this subdivision and this road is an existing easement that is there now and has been used for many years. 

 

Jay Clawson stated, on lot #2 it shows that there are two structures there, if something would happen to one of them are they allowed to only rebuild one structure on that lot?

 

Director Weaver stated, yes, and she does realize that, we have discussed that. My understanding is if I remember right from our discussion is one of those is not inhabitable now is that correct?

 

Alice Fisher stated, on lot #3, not lot #2 those are both habitable. It was our understanding that we could leave both of those there.

 

Director Weaver stated, they can stay as existing but, if one should burn down then it can not be replaced.

 

Jay Clawson stated, you can’t do any major changes to those either can you?

 

Director Weaver stated, that’s true too, yes.

 

Alice Fisher asked, what do you mean by major changes, will you define that? If the roof is leaking you can’t fix it?

 

Jay Clawson stated, no, you couldn’t add an addition on to it. It pretty much has to stay in the same condition or the same size that it is.

 

President Anderson asked, does the easement come off of Gingrich Road?

 

Director Weaver stated, yes, actually that’s Chalmers Road, which will be corrected on the secondary plat.

 

President Anderson asked, to lot #1, who is that easement to?

 

Director Weaver stated, it’s my understanding…

 

Alice Fisher stated, every lot uses the easement.

 

President Anderson asked, and the easement is?

 

Alice Fisher stated, an established road. It’s been there for a long time because, there is another piece of property behind the piece of property that has the 3 lots so without the road coming back it would be landlocked.

 

President Anderson asked, so the easement is 25’ or 32’?

 

Director Weaver stated, 32’ is the setback.

 

Steve Fisher asked, does that just dead-end at the lake?

 

President Anderson asked, where does that road go through after it comes through the property. Does it go to the lake or does it go to that other property?

 

Alice Fisher stated, it just dead ends.

 

President Anderson asked, it just dead ends to the other property to the back of it.

 

Alice Fisher stated, this is this piece of property here and this road goes back and then there is an additional piece of property back here and this road dead ends at this property. There is a big ditch here because, we could never go anywhere so the road comes off up here and comes through. This piece of property is not included in this subdivision, this part right here is this right here, then this is the other property.

 

Steve Fisher asked, does the road come in and do this?

 

Alice Fisher stated, no the road comes in and goes back here. Then there is another road that goes down to the lake but it’s just a beach access but it doesn’t, that's the only place that it can go, there isn’t anywhere else. When the road comes in there is another road, turn around kind of thing in front of these houses.

 

Steve Fisher asked, there’s a turn around existing in here some where?

 

Alice Fisher stated, yes, that’s correct. I think that’s what this represents. The road comes through here and there’s a turn around right here.

 

Steve Fisher stated, then the actual turn around is on one of the lots, it’s not necessarily on the easement?

 

Alice Fisher stated, yes, I guess that you could consider it a driveway. When they were existing there was people that used it as a turn around and it’s a driveway now I guess.

 

President Anderson asked, are you going to sell lot #1 then? There’s nothing on lot #1?

 

Alice Fisher stated, that’s correct, it’s empty, she would like to sell each of them, and she lives at the back, this piece back here.

 

President Anderson asked, is there anyway that you can give us 25’ more to make a 50’ easement through all three properties there?

 

Alice Fisher stated, I don’t know.

 

President Anderson stated, there is plenty of space on this one-acre lot to build buildings on, to build a house on.

 

Alice Fisher asked, you need 50’?

 

Jay Clawson stated, our ordinance states that’s what we need.

 

Alice Fisher asked, even if it’s a private road?

 

President Anderson stated, even if it’s a private road because, the roads are too tiny. It doesn’t matter what the guy on the other side of you has we don’t have to make him change anything.

 

Alice Fisher asked, going on lot #1, putting the easement on that? Is that what we’re talking about doing?

 

President Anderson stated, it would cut down your lot size on what your building but you have enough buildings there. It would take a little more time to do that unless we make this contingent on that.

 

Doyle Moore stated, this thing looks a lot bigger than what it is, if you were out there and saw this.

 

President Anderson stated, I’m sure but, the only thing is we started turning things down around the county because they come in, with a little 4 lot subdivision and say that they have an easement and there is no road going through it. They are wanting to cram a 25’ road into it and then there is no place for a bus to turn around, emergency vehicle to turn around or fire department to turn around or anything like that and we’re turning those down. If we do this again they are going to come in and say hey why did you turn us down, why did you do this?

 

Alice Fisher stated, there is a place to turn around in here.

 

Jay Clawson stated, that’s right now but, you’re not showing that being a permanent easement in there so if someone buys this and says that I don’t want you people in here anymore, they cut this circle drive which is the way that everyone has gotten in and out.

 

President Anderson asked, could we pass that tonight with a contingent?

 

Alice Fisher stated, I can re-do the drawing.

 

Doyle Moore asked, how far does that have to come back?

 

President Anderson stated, until it hits the other property on the side. The county can have their 50’ and then they can do with it as they please.

 

Alice Fisher stated, see, it dead ends here at her driveway, that’s her driveway.

 

Jay Clawson stated, back so you have access from all 3 lots with this 50’ easement so it would be back and angled over. Your road surface doesn’t have to be 50’ but, you have to have an easement all of the way down to here and then they can leave this little bitty thing for whoever wants to walk down to the lake. This allows, if this house catches on fire you can get a fire truck in and if they get off of the road people aren’t screaming your in my yard.

 

President Anderson asked, that would be on the primary, that it meets the standards of the Ordinance. Do you want to go ahead and put that on the record and run it on through then they don’t have to worry about coming back.

 

Jay Clawson stated, when we get to the secondary.

 

Alice Fisher stated, this is the secondary.

 

Director Weaver stated, no, they are voting on the primary.

 

Doyle Moore stated, we don’t have a problem doing it.

 

President Anderson stated, when you come back for the secondary, we can just do both of them if that’s alright with you. Do you want to go ahead and table this?

 

Director Weaver stated, they won’t give secondary approval without it being changed.

 

Alice Fisher stated, completely done.

 

Director Weaver stated, so it’s not going to make any difference if they vote on primary tonight or if they wait and vote on both then at the next meeting but, your looking at the next meeting before you have complete approval.

 

Doyle Moore asked, is there a reason for that if we’re willing to do that, we have already stated where it’s, it’s a very minor thing and we’re willing to do that.

 

President Anderson stated, it doesn’t bother me a bit.

 

Steve Fisher stated, we could vote for primary approval granted upon receipt of additional conditions such as the drawing of the road. It will still fall within next month’s meeting but, at least you will have primary approval.

 

Doyle Moore stated, that would be good enough if possible.

 

Steve Fisher stated, I would vote for that because, its going to have to come back anyway.

 

Doyle Moore stated, I think I would rather make it simple and save everyone’s time.

 

President Anderson stated, let’s vote.

 

With no further discussion the Board voted.

 

The Primary Approval Request for a 3 lot subdivision to be known as Stogie’s Cove located in Union Township, was approved by a vote of 7 to 0, based on a finding of fact that the Standards of the Subdivision Control Ordinance have been met.

 

Director Weaver stated, contingent on platting a 50’ road right-of-way. 

****

 

President Anderson asked, do we have any other business?

 

Director Weaver stated, I don’t think so other than I want to mention that Greg Bossaer brought a hand out on the seminar that they have had each year on the Nitty Gritty Work on the Plan Commission on December 1 in Columbia City.

 

Jay Clawson asked, I have a question about the house being built on Cleveland Street behind R & M, it was suppose to be a remodel, there is one wall that was not up to code to handle any weight and they have and the floor joices through the one wall and it will disappear. The only thing that I want to know is, is that going to be taxed as a new structure or is there some kind of loop hole where that should be allowed to be taxed as a 90 year old structure.

 

Director Weaver stated, he is not done with it yet. Yes, you are right, he got a permit to remodel. I was not in the office at the time that permit was issued. We’re trying to remedy that now. He thought that as long as he left the two walls up that he was not breaking the grandfather clause. He has a variance filed right now to go to the B.Z.A. this month and if that’s approved we are going to fix his building permit too.

 

Jay Clawson stated, I’m not on the B.Z.A. Board but, when you’re building on a lot that small and your encroaching with other houses that close if there is ever a fire in either of the surrounding houses how are they going to be able to fight a fire in a structure like that? Because, there is a fence behind it with another structure to the back and there are structures on two sides. I wouldn’t want to be stuck in there trying to fight a fire. 

 

Steve Fisher stated, the problem with those houses is once they were built, they should have never been rebuilt once demolished.

 

Jay Clawson stated, there’s just not enough space on that lot to build a home.

 

Director Weaver stated, the situation there though is we issued a permit to remodel, he tore down, we should have never really issued the permit because he is also wanting to make it like a story and a ½. We are going to try to compromise with him is basically what it boils down to so he does have a variance filed to try to build the second story. I can’t tell you whether that variance will be approved or not.

 

Jay Clawson asked, he had a special exception to build there and your varying again?

 

Director Weaver stated, no, he got a variance to add a little addition, a very small addition on the back, last month and that’s where the problem came in. We’re changing how we’re issuing permits starting November 1st, they are going to bring their information in and have at least a 24 hour waiting period before we issue the permit so we can sit down and spend a little more time on these and review them.

 

Jay Clawson stated, stuff like that needs to be reviewed because when they tore that house, the structure of that house was not, it was built below any kind of code, the footer was virtually about 6” in the ground and it was about 6” deep.

 

President Anderson asked, did you see that footer before he tore that house down?

 

Jay Clawson stated, well…

 

President Anderson stated, we don’t have a building inspector to go out there and tell him.

 

Jay Clawson stated, when they started digging around there you could see it was perfectly cross-sectioned.

 

President Anderson stated, that is something that they may have not even picked up anyway.

 

Jay Clawson stated, when it gets to that, there’s no way that you should be paying taxes on a 90-year-old home because there is only one wall left.

 

Director Weaver stated, 20’ of wall is all that is there.

 

Jay Clawson stated, it’s not even 20’ if you measure it out it’s only 8’. All that is left now is about 8’.

 

Director Weaver stated, well, it’s L-shaped.

 

Jay Clawson stated, no, it’s straight.

 

Director Weaver stated, well then he has torn more off since I have been there.

 

Jay Clawson stated, I have to drive by there everyday to take my kids to school and when I go to the grocery store I see it, it’s just the people trying to hoodwink Area Plan.

 

Ray Butz asked, Director Weaver, the Town Board called me tonight before I left and said that we were suppose to discuss something about that fence over there?

 

Director Weaver stated, no, I have been discussing it with Attorney Altman about what we want to do on that and I did tell him that I wasn’t going to address it tonight at all. If you want to bring it up and want to address it, I’m welcome to any opinion. The Town of Brookston, Juanita Waugh has a fence right down town she had a wooden fence there for many years, last year she came along and put metal up behind the wood. The town called me and asked me to send out a letter on it and I did, she had a fit when I sent the letter out the Town then asked me to hold up on pursuing this so a year later the Town comes back to me and says well what are you doing with this so it’s a delicate situation and we’re not sure where to go with it and we’re open for ideas. We’re going to try and do something but we’re not sure what we’re going to do yet. We’re going to try to talk with one of the tenants, we can’t get her to return phone calls to us.

 

Jay Clawson asked, the guy that came here last meeting and talked about condominiums did he bring you any information?

 

Director Weaver stated, I got some information from Tippecanoe County as a result of him going down and talking to them but, that’s all that I have received and really it wasn’t a lot of information. I’m hoping that we will get some more before I put it back on the agenda to discuss. I have had another party contact me that was interested in doing the same thing and actually, the two of them know each other, and are going to hook up so it’s going to be a joint effort from this point on to pursue this.

 

Jay Clawson made a motion to adjourn.

 

All in favor and carried unanimously. 

The meeting adjourned.

 

Respectfully submitted,

 

 

 

 

Ray Butz, Secretary

White County Area Plan Commission

 

 

 

 

 

 

Diann Weaver, Director

White County Area Plan Commission