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The White County Board of Zoning Appeals met on Thursday, August 17, 2000 at 7:30 p.m. in the Commissioner’s Meeting Room, Second Floor, County Building, Monticello, Indiana.

Members attending were Gary Barbour, Ray Butz, Carol Stradling, Jerry Thompson and Jeff Saylor. Also attending were Attorney Jerry Altman and Director Diann Weaver.

Visitors attending were: Carl Robinson, Terry Babka, Gloria Kuagle, Janice Inman, Courtney Kendall, Rich Kendall, Charles Mellon, Bob Overman, Arthur Siegfried, Diane Siegfried, Chris Brennan, Paul Gritten, Chris Williams, Kerry Muller, Aaron Malchow, David Rosenbarger and Dean Chaney.

The meeting was called to order by President Jerry Thompson and roll call was taken. No minutes were available to approve. Attorney Altman swore in all Board members and audience members.

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#1116 Aaron Malchow; Requesting a 50 square feet space variance and a 20’ front setback from South Street and a 17 ½’ rear setback variance to build a duplex on Lot #30 in Charles A. & Sarah H. Holladay’s 2nd Addition. The property is located in the City of Monticello at 601 East Street. Tabled from July 13, 2000.

President Thompson asked, do we have anyone representing this request?

Aaron Malchow was representing this request.

President Thompson asked, do you have anything to add to that?

Aaron Malchow stated, no.

President Thompson stated, nothing, okay.

Attorney Altman stated, obviously, for the record, we have received a change site improvement survey. We also have a location report from an adjoining land owner that shows the area, or


near the area in question.

President Thompson asked, do you have the file?

Attorney Altman stated, yes, I do.

President Thompson asked, is there anything there that looks like a response of any type?

Attorney Altman stated, no, they had a phone call but, they were just asking, let me check the file I don’t think that there is anything else in here.

President Thompson asked, anyone here opposed to the variance?

Carl Robinson stated, I was just questioning the way that the stakes are, they don’t jive with mine. It says here that it has a 15’ alley, from my stake to his stake, is only 11’, so there is 4’ loss there. Then his stake where he says that he is going to build back from, is 11’ back from my stake. When I brought my plot plan in, I talked to the people in the Planning Department there and they said that I could build within 15’ of that. Well, if he gets the okay here after he gets his permit what stops him from going up and building that? According to that, he can build up to where that stake is setting.

Attorney Altman asked, which stakes are you talking about?

Carl Robinson stated, the back, which would be the back to the alley, the stakes coming off of the street.

Attorney Altman stated, I’m going to hand you what is called an applicants site improvement survey, would you show the Board which stake that you are talking about.

Carl Robinson stated, this stake right here, mine is 11’ further to this street than what his is.

Attorney Altman stated, show them now, not me, I don’t vote…

Carl Robinson stated, this stake right here is 11’ back from mine, mine is right here next to the telephone pole. There is about 9’ off of the street, and his is 11’ back from mine.

Attorney Altman stated, for the record, he’s talking about the Northeast corner stake of the applicants and it would be the Northwest corner stake of his lot. Now, you can go ahead, I just want to clarify for the record.

Carl Robinson asked, my question is, why is his setback so much different than mine?

Director Weaver stated, not necessarily the setback you’re questioning, the property line.

Carl Robinson stated, yes, where his survey is staked out, mine is right there next to that telephone pole, right at 9’ off of the street and his is 11’ back further back from mine.

Aaron Malchow stated, I talked to Jim Milligan about that and he said that Mr. Robinson’s property is in a different subdivision and this subdivision is all laid out different than my property is in. The properties are separated by the alleyway, that’s the reason that he gave for that.

Director Weaver stated, the explanation is, in your subdivision they have laid it out for a 50’ road right-of-way. In Mr. Malchow's subdivision, they have laid it out for a 60’ road right-of-way, and that would be a 10’ difference.

Carl Robinson stated, that’s the difference for his setback but, it’s same street, just in different subdivisions but, it’s the same street.

Director Weaver stated, I can’t explain why.

Aaron Malchow stated, I measured from my stake and from his stake is only 11’ and right here it shows that it’s suppose to be a 15’ alley through there and I didn’t know where…

Carol Stradling stated, your survey says 10’ and his says 15’.

Carl Robinson stated, that’s the easement for the electric company, that’s not the alley, that’s the easement on my property back from my stake my property stake because everyone that is down there, that is 4 houses from me, they have fences right up through that line with my stake.

Attorney Altman asked, so the alley is West of your property line?

Carl Robinson stated, yes. There’s suppose to be 15’ in between our property lines that are suppose to be left alone for the alley, all I’m coming up with is 11’ from stake to stake.

President Thompson asked, why are we having so much trouble with this?

Director Weaver stated, I don’t know, because when I went out on site and took these pictures, your new pictures…

Attorney Altman stated, they are being circulated among the membership right now.

Director Weaver stated, well, they also have copies of them, I questioned that myself, that those are your property plats right that are on the property, you’re a corner flags?

Aaron Malchow stated, right.

Director Weaver stated, if you look at this where I circled the corner flags in the drawing, compared to the utility pole, I’m not sure that things line up quite like I think that they would either. You have a utility pole here and you have a utility pole here.

Attorney Altman asked, what you’re talking about is the East boundary?

Director Weaver stated, the East boundary.

Attorney Altman stated, the utility poles on the East boundary.

Carl Robinson stated, my stakes are right next to that.

Attorney Altman stated, go ahead Director Weaver, your testimony.

Director Weaver stated, it just seemed strange to me from the experience that I have had looking at the survey’s before, that the utility pole would be located, the one located to the East would be located where it would be blocking the alleyway. Do you see what I’m saying, it’s in the alleyway with the poles in the alleyway.

Carl Robinson stated, the pole is sitting there as a guideline that is on my property line, it’s over another 12’ from the pole and that’s no way that could be part of the alley. That’s the way that I understand on mine, that’s a variance for the electric company to come in there. If they have to come in there and work on lines or poles or anything, then the alley is on the other side of that, the West side of my property.

Director Weaver stated, I don’t have an explanation.

President Thompson asked, I’m confused, didn’t we ask Jim Milligan to come or not?

Director Weaver stated, we didn’t actually ask him to attend, we asked him to revise his drawing and explain the difference, the 18’ grass.

Attorney Altman stated, show the telephone pole and the adjacent house.

Director Weaver stated, which he has done.

Attorney Altman stated, just reading from your notes here, out of the file, that’s what we asked for.

President Thompson asked, do we have any comments from the Board?

Attorney Altman asked, what about a duplex there?

Carl Robinson stated, all that I’m worried about is the way that it’s laid out. It just doesn’t seem right in the measurements, doesn’t seem right to me and that’s what I’m worried about. If he goes within, he’s going to come within 12’ of where that alley is.

Attorney Altman stated, 12 ½’ is what it says here.

Carl Robinson stated, that alley which there, is a 4’ discrepancy there somewhere. There’s 5 houses down from me that have the same property lines that I have so it can’t be, I don’t know if all 6 of us are wrong on that side. I don’t have any complaints about a duplex being there, if he’s going to be back as far as this says

Attorney Altman stated, 12’.

Carl Robinson stated, but, I was just afraid that what is going to stop him from coming where that stake is at according to mine. I can build all of the way out to where that 15’ difference is, my stake to his, so he should be, it’s different, you say that it’s laid out different because, it’s a different subdivision. I was worried that he could come all of the way out to the street there and build it.

Director Weaver stated, he has to meet the setback that he requested from his property line, the setback is from his property line.

Carl Robinson asked, is that right though, is what I worry about. That’s what I worry about being so much different than mine.

Director Weaver stated, I don’t know how they got the discrepancy.

Jeff Saylor asked, do you have a survey of your property with you sir?

Attorney Altman stated, you should have it right there.

Carl Robinson stated, I turned one in, you should have it, that’s mine right there.

President Thompson asked, why do we have two different surveys?

Carl Robinson stated, one is mine.

Director Weaver stated, one is Denny Sterrett's, and the other is Jim Milligan.

Attorney Altman stated, his was done, the objectors was done when he bought his property, mortgage survey and he’s just submitting it to us for our information.

President Thompson asked, we don’t have anyone else from that neighborhood here tonight?

Ray Butz asked, you’re not against the duplex?

Carl Robinson stated, no, I would just like to have the boundary lines.

President Thompson stated, I don’t know what to do.

Attorney Altman stated, I guess what I’m really puzzled with, Mr. Milligan's survey shows that there is 10’ difference but yet, he shows your boundary to my eye…

President Thompson stated, in line.

Attorney Altman stated, in line.

Carl Robinson stated, yes, the way that line goes there.

Attorney Altman stated, I understand but as you have pointed out Director Weaver, it’s 50’ versus 60’ and yet Mr. Milligan shows it in line.

Jeff Saylor stated, the right-of-way on your survey shows 50’ and his 70’. So there is a difference on setback. It has a 10’ utility easement on this gentlemen’s property and just to the left hand side of the property line, according to this survey, there is a 15’ platted alley.

President Thompson stated, right.

Carl Robinson stated, West, to the West because there is only 11’ between our stakes.

Director Weaver asked, did Mr. Sterrett stake the property when he did the survey for you or was it previously staked? Do you know?

Carl Robinson stated, I don’t know. The stakes were, when I got…

Attorney Altman stated, it says existing stakes, Director Weaver, on his survey.

Carl Robinson stated, they were freshly painted and that is what it says here, existing stakes.

Attorney Altman stated, they would be existing, he would have done them.

Carl Robinson stated, he just painted them.

Director Weaver stated, I was hoping we could determine who staked it, I thought that maybe that might have helped.

Attorney Altman stated, I don’t know who did it but, that doesn’t help.

President Thompson asked, does the Board have any questions?

Gary Barbour stated, I’m confused because, it looks to me like there is a 25’ easement between the two properties, the way that I read these two different surveys. If you look where the power pole is it’s right on his property line. On the Sterrett survey and on the Milligan survey it’s a little bit left of his property line but on the Sterrett survey it shows a 10’ utility easement to the right, or to the East and the Milligan survey it’s showing a 15’.

Jeff Saylor stated, that’s two different things, this is an alley.

Gary Barbour asked, the alley would be basically, the same easement wouldn’t it?

Attorney Altman stated, no it’s different, there’s a 15’ alley in there and there’s a 10’ easement on the East for the electrical. Mr. Milligan's survey doesn’t show that because, we didn’t actually ask him to put that on there but, rather than 42’ of building space there would only be 32’ that way toward…

Gary Barbour stated, the Robinson’s house.

Attorney Altman stated, lot #15.

Carol Stradling asked, Aaron, have you had a chance to go out there and put stakes in where the footers might go around the foundation so you can see how the foundation fits within the stakes that Milligan put down?

Aaron Malchow stated, no.

Jeff Saylor stated, I’m a little uncomfortable voting on this thing, there are four missing feet between the stakes.

Director Weaver asked, but how do you remedy that?

Jeff Saylor stated, I think that we need to get Mr. Milligan, and ask him to look at both surveys and how this one matches up with this one, and find out if there is a problem with his survey or this one, what happened to the 4’ in question.

President Thompson asked, we’re going to have to have them both aren’t we?

Director Weaver stated, that’s what I was thinking too, we’re going to have to ask both. Do we want to request their attendance at a meeting.

Attorney Altman stated, you certainly can say that you would like to have it…

Jeff Saylor stated, unless, they can answer the question prior to the meeting and clarify it.

Director Weaver asked, and should that be in writing?

President Thompson stated, it has to be documented, somehow.

Carol Stradling stated, the scale is the same.

Attorney Altman asked, are you making that a motion Jeff?

Jeff Saylor stated, I at this time, would like to make a motion that we again table this until we get sufficient information from the two surveyors, as to how these two pieces of property match up.

Attorney Altman stated, could I also suggest Carol’s idea about the foundation being staked out there, and maybe bring photographs of that to the Board to show that. Would that be fine to add to that, Jeff?

President Thompson stated, back up just a moment please, you ask that they be contacted, do you want them present, was that in that motion? I’m asking.

Jeff Saylor stated, if Director Weaver can get a satisfactory answer to how these match up, something that the Board can easily understand, then I don’t see that they need to be here.

Director Weaver asked, what if I ask, if they couldn’t be in attendance, if they would give us something in writing, an explanation?

Jeff Saylor stated, they need a copy of these surveys and have them tell us what happened to the 4’.

Carol Stradling asked, have you checked your survey against where your house is on your property lines?

Aaron Malchow stated, well, yes.

Carol Stradling stated, if the scale is the same on those surveys, conceivably, we can match up the pole and run it down there. What happens then is, we look at the 4’ in the placement of your house. Mr. Milligan says that your house is 42’ from the East edge of the unimproved alleyway but when we overlay your house on that Mr. Milligan is showing your house is closer to that alleyway than your survey is showing it. If these things are right that might be where the difference is.

Attorney Altman stated, if you subtract that on his survey, it’s actually 49.12’, if you subtract off the frontage plus the house.

Jeff Saylor stated, I think that we need to have a clarified vote.

President Thompson stated, we have a motion, do we have a second on that motion that is on the floor?

Carol Stradling stated, I would second that that we’re putting both surveys together. Can you run the motion by me again Jeff, that we table it?

Jeff Saylor stated, I was moving to table this until the next meeting, so that Director Weaver had an opportunity to contact both of the surveyors and see if they can clarify the two surveys that we have and find out exactly how the two pieces of property match up to each other.

Carol Stradling stated, it may be that your property is not exactly what this survey shows and that may be where we’re off, I don’t know.

President Thompson asked, do I hear a second.

Carol Stradling stated, I would second that, that we table it to see if both surveys…

Director Weaver asked, when you say next meeting, we have a meeting next week…

Attorney Altman stated, next month.

Director Weaver stated, all right.

Aaron Malchow asked, that was my comment, I know that it’s going to fly sooner than you think, if next week was an opening or not, I didn’t know if I could get on there.

President Thompson stated, that’s up to the Board.

Carol Stradling asked, can the surveyor get that work done?

President Thompson stated, if we can get a result, that’s great, I don’t like to delay any longer than necessarily either.

Attorney Altman stated, the only problem we have is notice to the public. We need to set it for a definite time tonight to go to a meeting because, we can’t do it next week then we just have to be definite.

President Thompson asked, but, is there enough time to get it in tomorrow?

Attorney Altman stated, no, we need to say that tonight.

Attorney Altman stated, if they can get it to us next week, which would be wonderful.

President Thompson stated, that would be fine, we can try it, I don’t like to delay any longer than possible.

Jeff Saylor stated, that wasn’t my intentions.

Attorney Altman stated, I know that. Next meeting?

President Thompson stated, check with the office, I don’t know.

Director Weaver stated, that’s the only way that we would be able to do it.

President Thompson stated, a week from tonight.

Attorney Altman stated, so if it were voted on, it would be continued and tabled until a week from tonight, at the same time.

President Thompson stated, we have a motion and a second, all in favor say I.

The Board stated, I.

President Thompson stated, all opposed the same. Check with the office and hopefully we can get this thing finished.

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#1121 Dean A. Huseman, Owner; Crown Castle, Applicant; Requesting a special exception variance as per Section 10.20, Article 10.2001 of the White County Zoning Ordinance to place a communications tower on 10,000 square feet. The property is located on the Southeast corner of State Road 18 and Interstate 65.

President Thompson stated, this request has been tabled.

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#1122 Chrisie D. Helderle, Owner; Crown Castle, Applicant; Requesting a special exception variance as per Section 10.20, Article 10.2001 of the White County Zoning Ordinance to place a communications tower 10,000 square feet. The property is located on the North side of C.R. 500 S. and approximately ¼ of a mile West of U.S. Highway 231.

President Thompson asked, this may be tabled, is there anyone here to represent this request? No? How does this stand, next week or next month?

Director Weaver stated, next month.

President Thompson asked, why?

Director Weaver stated, they are going to get additional information.

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#1123 David & Jeanette J. Rosenbarger; Requesting a 5’ South side setback and a 5’ East side setback variance to build a new detached garage to replace the existing detached garage on Lot #1 & Block 28 in the Original Plat of Brookston. The property is located at 400 S. Wood Street.

President Thompson asked, I know that someone is here for that. Yes, David, do you have any additional information to present to us tonight?

David Rosenbarger stated, other than what Director Weaver was talking about to me earlier…

Director Weaver stated, let me fill the Board in to what is happening. Mr. Rosenbarger filed his variance with us. I went out to the property today to take pictures and when I was at the property I was concerned that he would not be able to meet his front setback. When I got back in the office I looked at the survey that had been given to us by him that was done by his surveyor. It did not show us on that survey that he was not meeting his front setback but, when I set down and calculated he could not meet the setback for this detached garage. Therefore, it was improperly advertised and improper notification. I did call Mr. Rosenbarger well, I talked to his wife and informed them of the situation this evening and I also talked to Mr. Sterrett who has now, already provided us a corrected survey and that’s the status of this.

Attorney Altman asked, this matter is tabled until the next months meeting, right?

Director Weaver stated, right, because we cannot get this advertised properly for next weeks meeting.

Ray Butz asked, why were we so late taking pictures?

Director Weaver stated, I have had people on vacation and I got down there as soon as I could. I only go down when the sign is posted, so I wait until the last 10 days and I did not make it last week, so I went down this week. Even so once the sign is posted it’s too late to get it re-advertised because, the advertising must be done 10 days prior to the meeting as well. So even if I had been down there last week we still couldn’t have got it corrected.

David Rosenbarger asked, what are the setbacks on the side and the rear?

Director Weaver stated, the front is 32’, which is the roadside, 6’ off of the rear and 6’ off of the side.

David Rosenbarger stated, okay.

Director Weaver stated, and that is to the foundation.

President Thompson asked, the date for next months meeting will be?

Director Weaver stated, September 21st.

David Rosenbarger asked, what will I need to do now, nothing?

Director Weaver stated, Dennis has already given us, and I did give you a copy of that corrected survey….

David Rosenbarger stated, as far as my sign do I throw it away, keep it up?

Director Weaver stated, leave it up and I will be down, and I will get it corrected, I will get the sign changed prior to the 10 days. We will re-advertise and re-notify the property owners, the adjacent property owners.

Ray Butz asked, no way to get him in here next week?

Director Weaver stated, no, we don’t have enough time.

President Thompson stated, okay, we will move on.

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#1124 Wayne & Ida Hinshaw, Owner; Paul Gritten, Applicant; Requesting a 7’ front setback and a 2’ South side setback variance to build a new home on Lot #13 & part of Lot #15 in the Arch Street in the Original Plat in Monon. The property is located at 407 N. Arch Street.

President Thompson asked, do we have anyone representing this request?

Paul Gritten was representing this request.

President Thompson asked, do you have any additional information to present to us tonight?

Paul Gritten stated, not really, Wayne owns the property directly North of it, the only person in question on this variance would be Wayne Moncel. I visited with Wayne and he gave his blessing of the project since it’s only a 2’ drain that is on his side. The front of the property is Arch Street and the back of the property is an alley. Wayne owns the North side of the property and Wayne Moncel owns the other side so, it’s pretty cut and dry.

President Thompson asked, have we had any correspondence on this?

Director Weaver stated, no, we have not received anything on this.

President Thompson asked, what’s the tie between the owner and the applicant?

Paul Gritten stated, we’re building the home.

President Thompson asked, that’s all that I needed to know. Is there anyone here opposed to the variance? Any comments from the Board? Concerns?

Carol Stradling asked, it’s still setback further than the other surrounding properties, isn’t it? From Arch Street?

Paul Gritten stated, no, as a matter of fact that’s why we wanted to put it there, the new requirement, required it to be setback a little bit further and this will move it up to where it’s pretty much the same as these.

Carol Stradling asked, even with the others?

Paul Gritten stated, that’s correct. We have enough property to set it back but, it would look kind of odd with all of the other properties on that block.

President Thompson asked, are there any other comments?

Attorney Altman asked, single story home?

Paul Gritten stated, single story, correct.

Attorney Altman asked, brick?

Paul Gritten stated, no, wood 2’ x 6’ side walls, vinyl siding, 5/12-roof pitch, standard home.

Attorney Altman asked, standard home, stick built?

Paul Gritten stated, manufactured.

President Thompson asked, are we ready to vote? We will vote.

With no further discussion the Board voted.

The Board finds the following:

1. That the lot is properly zoned R-2, one and two family residential.

2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.1114.

3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.

4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.

5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.

6. That the request is for a 7’ front setback and a 2’ South side setback variance to build a new home on Lot 13, 12.00 feet off the North side of Lot 15 and 3.00 feet by 79.63 feet on the North side of Lot 15 all on Arch Street in the Original Plat of the Town of Monon, White County, Indiana.

COMMON DESCRIPTION: Property is located at 407 N. Arch Street in Monon.

7. That the variances herein authorized and granted are not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make reasonable practicable the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variances are based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorized the above said variances under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.

The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 5 affirmative and 0 negative.

Attorney Altman stated, you need to get a building permit before you proceed.

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#1125 Christina Kalina & Ellen VanHorne; Requesting a 30’ front setback and a 7’ side setback variance to roof and screen and existing deck on part of Lot #2 & #3 in Conwell’s Addition. The property is located in Liberty Township at 5053 E. Robin Court.

President Thompson asked, do we have anyone representing this request?

Bob Overman was representing the request.

President Thompson asked, do you have anything to present to the Board tonight sir?

Bob Overman stated, no sir.

Director Weaver stated, I think that the Board will find in their packet, the right to encroach from the S.L.F.E.C.C. that was granted on this, Exhibit A. I did request a copy of that for the Board so they would know that the S.F.L.E.C.C. has been involved on this.

President Thompson asked, have we had any other response on this?

Director Weaver stated, no.

President Thompson asked, is there anyone here opposed to the variance? Are there any questions from the Board?

Carol Stradling asked, you’re just roofing and screening this porch, you’re not turning it into an additional room.

Bob Overman stated, no, it’s just a deck now and it would just be screened on 3 and part of the 4th side where it comes to the house. The roof will be put over it then we’re going to open it up as much as possible and put as much screen as possible so it would just be a screened porch.

President Thompson asked, anyone else?

Attorney Altman asked, roofline will meet the roofline of the house?

Bob Overman stated, exactly.

Attorney Altman asked, single story and just continue it?

Bob Overman stated, right.

President Thompson asked, are there any other concerns? Are we ready to vote?

With no further discussion the Board voted.

The Board finds the following:

1. That the property is properly zoned L-1, Lake Residence.

2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114.

3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.

4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.

5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.

6. That the request is for a 30’ front setback variance and a 7’ side setback variance to roof and screen and existing deck Five (5) Feet off the East Side of the West half of Lot Number Two (2) in Conwell’s Addition, as recorded in Deed Record 128, Page 132, in the Recorder’s Office, White County, Indiana;

Also, the East Half of Lot Number Two (2) in said Conwell’s Addition;

Also, a part of Lot Number Three (3) in said Conwell’s Addition, being Twenty (20) feet in width along the river bank line and Thirty (30) feet in width along a sixteen (16) foot roadway, being off the West side of said Lot Number Three (3) in said Conwell’s Addition, as recorded in Deed Record 128, Page 132, in the Recorder’s Office in White County, Indiana. Total distance of the riverbank line is Fifty (50) feet and total distance of the roadway line is Sixty-five (65) feet.

COMMON DESCRIPTION: Property is located at 5053 E. Robin Court in Liberty Township.

7. That the variances herein authorized and granted are not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make reasonable practicable the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variances are based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorized the above said variances under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.

The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 5 affirmative and 0 negative.

Attorney Altman stated, you need to get your building permit before you proceed.

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#1126 Terry Babka; Requesting a 7’ height variance to bring the existing detached garage into compliance with the White County Zoning Ordinance on Lot #71 in Gingrich Addition . The property is located South of Monticello at 5819 E. Sheridan Road.

President Thompson asked, do we have anyone here representing this request?

Terry Babka was representing the request.

President Thompson asked, do you have any additional information?

Terry Babka stated, I have a letter from the neighbor.

President Thompson asked, you may bring it forward. You understand that we don’t give it back?

Terry Babka stated, yes.

President Thompson stated, if you want a copy then we could make you a copy.

Terry Babka stated, no.

President Thompson stated, there’s not a polite way to say it but, we keep them.

Attorney Altman stated, the applicant has presented a letter, which I will read into the record as Exhibit A. The letter was read out loud to the Board and the audience members.

Director Weaver stated, I have had a neighbor in to talk to me about this. There are a couple of things that he is concerned with. Number one, being the location of the septic system on the property and the other one being the amount of coverage of the lot that they have. I have also talked to Mr. Shookman down in the Health Department to see if there has been any type of activity with him on the septic system and there hasn’t been anything. I also talked to Lloyd Clerget who is with the Sewer Board that is putting in the sewers in around the lake area. Mr. Clerget informed me that this is in their next project area and the soonest that they will be able to hook up to sewer was going to be 2002.

President Thompson asked, is there anyone here opposed to the variance, or for?

John Freeman stated, I’m the neighbor across the road, the 31 acres across the road.

Attorney Altman asked, that would be to the South?

John Freeman stated, yes. That is a development that came through this Board about 5 years ago. This one and the next one, were opposed to it because, the lots weren’t big enough to support the septic systems. We made those lots instead of ¾ of an acre, 1 acre. We met all of the requirements that the County Board of Health wanted, perimeter drains and those kinds of things. If you look at the survey of this property, that septic system cannot serve what they are proposing to do, and this is like it’s easier to ask for forgiveness than it is to ask for permission. What those pictures may or may not show is, there is an apartment over that garage, a picture window already cut out and covered with paper so you can’t see it unless you are looking closely, so it’s going to be a dwelling. Now, they know that we have a 15’ height requirement and they built it anyway. If we don’t enforce it, then you’re doing selective enforcement here. I have to comply, I only ask for a level playing field and I complied across the road and I’m asking that you make them comply on the other side of the road. You may not be able to see the picture window, you can’t see it in that picture but, it’s covered with paper at the moment, that’s intended to be a dwelling there is intentions to put a kitchen on the first floor. You can ask them. If you look at the floor plan and the related property lines, you cannot possibly put a leach field in that, and the next one that you are going to look at. So you will create a snowball effect here, if you approve this kind of activity. Thank you.

Attorney Altman asked, the present structure does not have a building permit right?

Director Weaver stated, it does have a building permit, yes, it does.

Attorney Altman stated, the one that I’m looking at here, says maximum height for an accessory building is 15’?

Director Weaver stated, that’s right, yes.

Attorney Altman asked, presently it’s built at 22’?

Director Weaver stated, that’s right.

Attorney Altman asked, is it a garage, or is it a house?

Terry Babka stated, no, it’s a garage.

Attorney Altman asked, apartment?

Terry Babka stated, no, it’s a garage with a large attic up above, a large storage area. The area that he’s referring to, in the front there, is headed off. We have a drywall, a boom truck came along and delivered drywall up there for later on, with no intentions of doing anything in there other than storage, for now. Then later on, hopefully, when the sewer additions came in we could do something different.

Attorney Altman asked, put living quarters in there?

Terry Babka stated, a game room or something above it, right now, it is just storage. There’s no kitchen or anything intended in there or anything like that, it’s strictly a garage.

Attorney Altman asked, do you have consent to encroach across S.F.L.E.C.C.’s line, to the North?

Terry Babka stated, I’m sorry…

Attorney Altman stated, your survey shows that you encroach across the S.F.L.E.C.C. line with your house, do you have consent to encroach there?

Terry Babka stated, it’s always been there.

Gary Barbour stated, it’s a detached garage.

Terry Babka asked, you mean to the back of the house?

Attorney Altman stated, the house to the North.

Terry Babka asked, you mean on the back, the lakeside?

Attorney Altman stated, yes.

Terry Babka stated, yes, that’s always been there, I bought that house about 8 years ago and it’s about a 50-year-old home. That house has always been sitting there on that property like that.

Carol Stradling asked, at what point did you offer your plans?

Terry Babka stated, I never offered my plans to the, construction was built and the blueprint that was submitted for permit. We had a conversation when I filed permit, the conversation that we talked about, 15’ height areas. I was under the impression that it was 15’ for walls but, as it turns out, it’s 15’ total I guess. The blue print that I drew was to a quarter of an inch scale, the scale exactly to the format and the layout of the building that it is sitting on. The only thing that is missing from the blueprint that was submitted for the building is on the original permit on the garage. It has 2 birdhouse type windows up on top of the roof I didn’t put those on.

Carol Stradling asked, you are the builder?

Terry Babka stated, yes, ma’am, I’m the homeowner.

Carol Stradling asked, have you built anything like this before?

Terry Babka stated, yes.

Carol Stradling asked, when it says maximum height for an accessory building, you just thought that meant the walls?

Terry Babka stated, the side walls for the supporting trusses is what I thought, but as it is, I guess one way that it reads, is that the walls that go all of the way to the peak now the gable, which is where its….

Carol Stradling asked, where it meets the height of the building?

Terry Babka stated, yes, that would be the total height where the actually, roofline is of the ground level, is what 8’ or something, it’s a very pitched roof.

President Thompson asked, what is your occupation?

Terry Babka stated, I’m an operations prognosis for General Motors.

President Thompson asked, so you’re not a contractor, per say?

Terry Babka stated, no, I’m not.

President Thompson stated, that’s all right.

Attorney Altman asked, where will your septic system be on this lot? If the garage is there?

Terry Babka stated, my septic system is to the West side, down that lot.

Attorney Altman asked, does that exist now?

Terry Babka stated, it’s always been there.

Attorney Altman asked, it’s not under the garage?

Terry Babka stated, no.

Director Weaver asked, it’s on lot 72?

Terry Babka stated, no, it’s on the…

Director Weaver asked, West side of the house?

Terry Babka stated, yes.

Director Weaver asked, still on the same lot?

Terry Babka stated, yes, the well is in-between the garage and the house, in the East side of the lot.

President Thompson asked, those pictures were taken, when? I didn’t notice the date.

Director Weaver asked, the 17th and these were taken last month. Is that your privacy fence on the property?

Terry Babka stated, yes, it is.

Director Weaver stated, you need a permit for that.

President Thompson asked, does anyone else have concerns or comments?

Carol Stradling asked, can you build a deck over a well?

President Thompson stated, I wouldn’t think so.

Terry Babka stated, the well is above the deck, it’s sticking right thorough the back. The house is about right through the floor of the deck.

Attorney Altman asked, is the deck there?

Terry Babka stated, yes.

President Thompson stated, yes, it’s 1’ over here. Does the Board have any comments? Jeff, what are your thoughts?

Jeff Saylor stated, in terms of the drawings that were submitted at the time they applied for a building permit, they are crystal clear. The scale is right there and probably there is a lot of stuff that goes through down there and it may have been one that they may have been caught.

President Thompson asked, Attorney Altman?

Attorney Altman stated, it might be on there but, it says crystal clear that 15’ from him, maximum height.

Jeff Saylor stated, I guess my point, that he wasn’t instructed that these plans wouldn’t meet the 15’, that’s one thing. If it was just said 15’ without addressing the plans that were submitted, that’s another thing, maybe you can help me out here.

Director Weaver stated, the main reason that we take plans, in is for the Assessor’s Office. This was done also back when we issued the permits at the time that they came in, before we had the one day waiting period. So at that point we did not take the time to sit down and look at it and go in depth on the plans.

Carol Stradling asked, when they submit for a building permit are they required to submit drawings to scale?

Director Weaver stated, no.

Carol Stradling asked, so it’s not necessarily customary that they submit drawings to scale?

Director Weaver stated, normally when we get floor plans, they are to scale, a drawing of the lot is normally not to scale.

Rex Striebeck stated, I would just like to say one little thing. We are here in support of Terry and Rich, both neighbors down the road we are just here to support them because, they are good neighbors, good people and he submitted his plans to the Board and got his permit, now the fine print says 15’ well…

Director Weaver stated, it’s not a fine print.

Rex Striebeck stated, in the situation that he has this built, no one told him about this when he submitted it.

John Freeman stated, now they have come in here and asked for forgiveness. Now he built a privacy fence 6’ tall and he hasn’t got the building permit. This is a record of non-compliance and accepting this is selective enforcement. The people, the man that just spoke is going to show you the worst case of over building on a piece of property in the next one that you are going to look at. At some point you have to say it’s not that it’s Director Weaver’s responsibility to review the plans and decide whether it’s 15’ or not, she is there to issue building permits, she isn’t there to review the plans. It says very clearly 15’ height, it doesn’t take a rhoades scholar or an engineer to figure that out. If you are going to do selective enforcement that’s what I want to see is consistency in enforcement. They didn’t get a permit for the fence they have their record is clear. What are we talking about here you are going to set precedence if you accept this kind of activity.

Terry Babka stated, there was a fence there prior my neighbor and I had a fence down that line there. We took that other fence out there and replaced that fence, I didn’t know that we had to have a permit.

Director Weaver stated, it doesn’t make a difference.

Terry Babka stated, I didn’t know that.

Carol Stradling asked, did we answer the sewer, septic question yet? Did that go to the Board of Health?

Attorney Altman stated, no.

Director Weaver stated, no.

Carol Stradling asked, so it hadn’t gone to the Board of Health?

Director Weaver stated, no, when I talked to Mr. Shookman, he did not find any record of that.

Carol Stradling asked, so the Board of Health may even say that there isn’t enough room for that garage? Is that conceivable?

Attorney Altman stated, sure that is conceivable, so they are asked the question that no one knows for sure what the answer is.

President Thompson asked, is there any other discussion? Questions?

Kerry Muller asked, is the septic part of the issue here or just the height?

Attorney Altman stated, it always is when you have a lot and you are building on it. Septic is always an issue no matter what.

Kerry Muller asked, is it considered a living dwelling, if the garage is a living dwelling?

Attorney Altman stated, you are saying that it is not and if we approve it, as a garage, it would not be. So it’s the area of the lot, verses the amount that you need, for a septic system.

Jeff Saylor asked, aren’t those issues normally dealt with before the building permit is issued?

Director Weaver stated, right.

Jeff Saylor asked, so was there a reason that the Health Department was not involved with this.

Director Weaver stated, had we realized that there was going to be living space above it we would have required it.

Kerry Muller stated, but, it’s not living space.

Director Weaver stated, but, he said on down the line that it would be.

Kerry Muller stated, no, he said that it was going to be a game room.

Director Weaver stated, that’s considered living space.

Attorney Altman stated, that’s living space.

Terry Babka stated, it does not have to be living space, I can just leave it an attic and leave it just as a garage.

Attorney Altman stated, it’s certainly not going to be approved for living space, if it is approved, not presented, I should say.

President Thompson asked, is the Board ready to vote?

Carol Stradling stated, it’s hard to see that you would, the definition of living space has already come into question however long we have been discussing this. We are voting on it as if it were not living space and you are saying that you would not put it into living space and yet we are looking at a record right in front of us where you signed a document saying that you agree that the maximum height of an accessory building is 15’, Exhibit B is a copy of the building permit issued. You understand that it challenges me to sit here, knowing that we can’t go out and police it year after year. Saying that you will not have living space in there, it challenges me to feel secure that you will not use it as such.

Terry Babka stated, just tell you that I won’t, I don’t know what else I can tell you.

Attorney Altman stated, I think that you should vote on either issue.

Carol Stradling stated, it’s been Director Weaver’s time, it’s been our time.

President Thompson asked, to me we have several of these situations here tonight don’t we? We have fence that shouldn’t be, we have height violation, the septic.

There was discussion among the Board members.

Carol Stradling stated, just trying to explore some options.

President Thompson stated, I know what you are saying, which one do we want first here?

Attorney Altman stated, vote on the ballot first would be my suggestion.

President Thompson asked, then come back and address the fence or not?

Attorney Altman stated, I think that the fence should be noticed up for the next meeting. It’s a matter of fact before us, an admitted matter of fact, a violation.

President Thompson asked, anyone? What are your wishes here, vote, more information?

Carol Stradling asked, if we were to vote on it as is, it could conceivably be turned into living space, there is enough room for that to be done.

President Thompson stated, if we vote in favor, yes.

Attorney Altman stated, true and Mr. Freeman, the objector, objection about selective enforcement. You have to determine how much of a levee that has but, the matter is before us.

President Thompson asked, is the Board ready to vote?

The Board stated, yes.

With no further discussion the Board voted.

The Board finds the following:

1. That objectors were present at the meeting

2. That proper notice was given by certified mail to adjoining property owners.

3. That the request is for a 7’ height variance to bring the existing detached garage into compliance with the White County Zoning Ordinance on Lot 71 in Gingrich Addition in Union Township, White County, Indiana.

COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located South of Monticello at 5819 E. Sheridan Road.

 

4. (1) The variance requested (is) (is not) a variance from a use district or

classification under Area Plan law. Vote: 4 is not, 1 is.

5. (2) The granting of this variance (will) (will not) be injurious to the public health,

safety, morals and welfare of the community. Vote: 4 will not, 1 will.

6. (3) The use and value of the area adjacent to the property included in the variance

request (will) (will not) be affected in a substantially adverse manner. Vote: 1 will, 4 will not.

7. (4) The strict application of the terms of the zoning ordinance is being applied to a

situation that (is) (is not) common to other properties in the same zoning district. Vote: 0 is, 5 is not.

8. (5) The strict application of the terms of the zoning ordinance (will) (will not)

result in unusual and unnecessary hardship. Vote: 3 will, 2 will not.

9. (6a) This situation (is) (is not) such that there are exceptional or extraordinary

circumstances or conditions applying to the property in question or to the intended use of the property that does not apply generally to other properties or class of uses in the same zoning district. Vote: 1 will, 4 will not.

10. (6b) this situation (is) (is not) such that such variance is necessary for the

preservation and enjoyment of a substantial property right possessed by other properties in the same zoning district and in the vicinity. Vote: 1 will, 4 will not.

11. (6c) This situation (is) (is not) such that the authorizing of such variance will be

of substantial detriment to adjacent property and will materially impair the purposes of the ordinance of the public interest. Vote: 3 will, 2 will not.

12. (6d) This situation (is) (is not) such that the Board specifically finds the condition

or situation of the specific piece of property for which the variance is sought is of so typical or recurrent a nature as to make reasonably practicable the formulation of a general regulation, under an amendment of the ordinance, for such conditions or situations. Vote: 1 will, 4 will not.

The variance was denied based on the findings of fact by a vote of 1 for and 4 against. A vote of 3 “for” is necessary to grant a variance.

Attorney Altman stated, the variance fails. I suggest that we take enforcement action.

President Thompson asked, what are the Boards wishes on this? How do we handle this?

Attorney Altman stated, the first thing that we should do is, give them a notice to comply with the ordinance and give them the opportunity to do so. If they do not, then the usual practice is to file for an injunction and a restraining order to remove non-conforming, just telling the Board that is what we would usually do administratively.

President Thompson asked, does everyone understand that?

Attorney Altman stated, just so the Board knows what the Administrative Office does.

President Thompson asked, that’s what he’s going to be informed of by you?

Attorney Altman stated, yes.

President Thompson stated, okay, we shall move on.

****

#1127 Richard J. & Courtney A. Kendall; Requesting a 5.2’ West side setback variance to rebuild part of the first floor of the existing home and to add a 2nd. Story above this section on lot #68 in Gingrich Addition. The property is located South of Monticello at 5839 E. Sheridan Road.

President Thompson asked, do we have anyone here representing this request?

Richard Kendall was representing the request.

President Thompson asked, do you have any additional information?

Richard Kendall stated, I think that you have everything that you need.

Director Weaver stated, the phone call that Mr. Kendall received a while ago in my office was from the adjoining property to the West side, Mr. Jim Clark. He was letting me know that he was in favor of this request and did not have a problem with this request. Other than that, I have not had any contact from the neighbors, other than the same neighbor that was concerned with the location of the septic. Again on this lot as well, concerned with the location of the septic and the coverage of the lot again. I talked to Mr. Shookman, the Kendall’s have been down and talked to him. He had given them names of the soil scientist and he has not yet received any soil test back there’s again in the same area, is going to be lined next for sewers and again that hookup will be the soonest, is the year of 2002.

President Thompson asked, is there anyone opposed to the variance this evening?

John Freeman stated, I’m the neighbor across the road with 31 acres, again ditto. We had to increase the property size at these people’s demand, to an acre verses ¾ of an acre so there would be proper leach fields and septic systems. This is the poster boy for over building if you approve this project. If you look at it carefully, there is a spot a little bit smaller than this room, for the entire leach bed and septic system on this property. Now, if they had sewers out there, which as Director Weaver said 2002, this would not be an issue. This is an issue now and I realize that you are not the Health Department but somehow you have to coordinate this. There is no possible way, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist or a soil engineer to show that with the clay out there because on the other side of the street the same soil, we had to have extra leach beds over there to accommodate a 3 bedroom home with 2 baths because, and I’m out of my league here, soil compaction or something like that, same soil. You can’t possibly have a proper septic system on this property now. If they could meet the current standards of the septic systems within White County, I would not have any problem with this. If you look at the size of the lot and again these are people who built over the lot line twice here, you can see it from the survey. I wouldn’t have any problem with it if they can meet the current septic system requirements in White County but this proposed area is clearly necessary for proper leach bed. If you look at the garages, he has two garages, you can barely walk between the two garages. So I’m opposed to the project because, I have to meet your standards and if you approve this, he doesn’t. Thank you.

Director Weaver stated, I would like to add to the Board, there was a permit issued on this property for them to convert an existing bedroom into a kitchen and add a second story onto the portion of the home that has now been torn off. There was a stop work order posted on the property.

Carol Stradling asked, how do you add a second story on to something that has been torn off?

Richard Kendall stated, that’s why we did it, the existing foundation ties into an attached garage, well it use to be an attached garage to the rest of the house. So right now, I have a hole in the middle of my house and you keep saying that we over built on the property that property was bought in the existing condition when we started on it with this remodeling project. As a matter of fact, if you look at the survey off of the back of the garage to the North there is like an 8’ section in there, then there is an inset and then the rest of the foundation. So we are trying to put it back on the same foundation, we’re not adding on any square footage to the foundation it’s the existing structure that we bought 8 years ago. So nothing has changed other than, we wanted to do this addition, which was to knock a bedroom out of the house and make it part of the kitchen.

Director Weaver stated, this property was purchased from Mr. Clark, right?

Richard Kendall stated, that’s correct.

Director Weaver asked, that lives to the West, has a cottage to the West?

Richard Kendall stated, that’s correct.

Attorney Altman asked, do you have Health Department approval for your proposal?

Richard Kendall stated, they never said either way, one way or another. If whether we need it and I guess after going to the meeting Tuesday, they are saying by next fall, last Tuesday, that we were going to be hooked up by next fall.

Director Weaver stated, no 2002.

Richard Kendall stated, I’m just saying what…

Director Weaver stated, Mr. Clerget called me at home tonight to confirm that with me because, I knew that would be brought up so I wanted to have accurate information.

Richard Kendall stated, I would like to make a statement, he keeps referring to the property across the road, which he had to come into compliance with everything, but, we are dealing with a 50’ lot just like everyone else around the lake. All that I’m trying to do is improve, actually what I’m trying to do is get my kitchen back, if I can come in compliance with everything that’s what it came to I would but, for me to comply….

John Freeman stated, to get his kitchen back he doesn’t need a 2-story house.

President Thompson stated, just a minute, let him finish.

Richard Kendall stated, I’m just like everyone else on the lake, I am planning on that coming out there and willing to pay for it. There’s not going to be any more than the 2 of us, there’s 2 reasons that I want to put a 2 story over this addition, one I really couldn’t afford it right now but, taking the roof off and putting it on now is the time to do it. All that I want to do is, tie in with the house because some day we want to have kids and someday, I would like to build them a big playroom. I’m not even planning on finishing it right now, the second story but, the roof is off and everything is down. That is part of why it all came down it was to make it structurally sound so that we could put a second story addition above it.

John Freeman stated, again, I said if he complies with the White County septic rules, the fields, and the leach bed, I’m delighted that he has a playroom for his children, I have no problem with that. The problem becomes, I have to comply and he doesn’t and again that is selective enforcement. He wants to put a 2 story building on it, I don’t have a problem with it as long as he complies with the current septic requirements of White County, he just told you that he didn’t go and apply for anyone to study that.

Holly Muller stated, was it not mentioned that these permits should have never been given to them until the whole thing is taken care of so them guys that gave them…

Director Weaver stated, it was questioned at the time that they came in for their permit whether they were adding bedrooms or not. The septic system is based on the amount of bedrooms in the home.

Richard Kendall stated, that’s my question I’m taking a bedroom out, so I have the existing septic. It has been there since I bought the house and that was the whole part of it to take the bedroom out, I don’t need the bedroom. I had a kitchen all that I wanted to do is take the bedroom out and open it up.

Director Weaver asked, did you know at the time that you came in for a permit that the foundation was not good?

Richard Kendall stated, no, we did not.

Mrs. Kendall stated, we brought pictures in, to show you what it looked like as we were tearing it down.

Richard Kendall stated, it’s just the outside, what we got into, so the Board knows, when we started on this project we found out and we went up to level the floor that there was 2 or 3 different things wrong. The first and major problem was, there are three different levels of footers on that existing part of the house. It was an original cottage that was added on to twice and then off of that the detached garage, so in three different levels of footers. The other thing that we found out when it was constructed, the two additions around the main part of the house, the floors were not even tied into the walls. It came out to the edge of the foundation and they basically had 2” x 6” stud with a 2” x 4” nailed perpendicular to it to hold the floor. So in order to make it structurally sound, we figured that we would have to knock all of that down and level it up, so we can have a level starting point to be able to put the first floor walls on in order to hold the second story walls, was the whole reason that the walls came down.

President Thompson asked, have we had any response from anyone other than the phone call?

Director Weaver stated, no.

President Thompson asked, who is on lot #67?

Director Weaver asked, who owns lot #67?

President Thompson asked, yes, who resides there?

Richard Kendall asked, is that Mitchell?

Director Weaver stated, yes.

Richard Kendall stated, that’s Gene and Lydia Mitchell.

President Thompson asked, obviously, they were notified?

Director Weaver stated, Attorney Altman has that information in the file.

Richard Kendall stated, yes, they were notified.

President Thompson asked, and lot #69 is?

Director Weaver stated, Clark.

Richard Kendall stated, Jim Clark.

President Thompson stated, that’s right, you said that earlier.

Carol Stradling asked, could you tell me at what point again, you determined that the foundation was not sound?

Richard Kendall stated, when we started, there was a roof off and when we started leveling up the floors. The reason that we had to get the roof off was to take the weight off of the walls that we were planning on taking out and separate the existing kitchen and poured basement.

Carol Stradling asked, so you have already filed your building permit and you started the work and you took the roof off and then when you went to take the wall out, no….

Richard Kendall stated, that’s correct.

Carol Stradling stated, she’s shaking her head no, and you’re nodding your head, yes.

Mrs. Richard Kendall stated, we pulled the floor out first before we took any walls out.

Richard Kendall stated, right, the sequence of events is, we took the flat roof off, which was above it. I took the pitched roof of that was above that because all of the weight was on the load bearing wall. It split the kitchen and the bedroom, once we got that off we got looking at the floor to level those up, we took the floors up and that’s when we found the 3 different levels of footers. From that point, we went ahead and knocked the two partial walls down in order to level it up actually what the plans changed is to be able to level up the footers.

Carol Stradling asked, so it was not your initial intent to tear down that lower story?

Richard Kendall stated, not really, we can’t afford it but, we’re already into it.

Director Weaver stated, at the time that I shut the job down, had there been any footers poured?

Richard Kendall stated, no that was supposed to be Saturday morning.

Attorney Altman stated, so they were poured the next morning?

Richard Kendall stated, no, they were suppose to.

Director Weaver stated, they were scheduled.

Richard Kendall stated, there’s not footers or anything, just a big blue tarp.

Attorney Altman stated, the absolute minimum, no matter what we even consider to do, they have to get the septic approval and that has to be done just no matter what.

Carol Stradling stated, we could pass this, contingent upon their septic approval.

Attorney Altman stated, that has the potential of doing that but, they would have to do that before they pound another nail or put these footers in, to do anything.

Director Weaver stated, the stop work order is still posted, they can’t do anymore without violating that.

President Thompson stated, right, but, like she said…

Director Weaver stated, I can hold my permit to correct this…

President Thompson stated, subject to an approval.

Chris Brennan stated, if the footprints don’t change and there is not an increase in the number of bedrooms, I’m sure that the Health Department was initially contacted anyway.

Richard Kendall stated, right here it says when obtaining a variance, even it says obtain a certificate from the Board of Health Department that the septic and well are sufficient when a new structure is proposed for a bedroom.

Director Weaver stated, but, we have had a neighbor show concern on the septic and well.

An audience member stated, I was just curious about the point of order here.

Richard Kendall stated, I think that everyone that lives on the lake is concerned whether or not we have septic approval or not.

Jeff Saylor stated, I think that he is right.

President Thompson asked, the owner?

Jeff Saylor stated, no, the gentlemen that had just spoken up.

President Thompson asked, as far as not changing the actual footer?

Jeff Saylor stated, yes.

President Thompson stated, say that again Jeff, I think that I know what you are saying.

Jeff Saylor stated, well, it’s just like the gentlemen mentioned, the footprint as he called it, is not changing. We’re not increasing the number of bedrooms at this time and we’re not increasing the number of kitchens or baths. So really, nothing has changed on this property other than the shape of the building.

Attorney Altman stated, you never know what someone will put upstairs.

John Freeman stated, we’re building a second story on the house, but there wasn’t a second story there.

Director Weaver stated, and they have not identified what kind of room that is going to be on their plans, or in writing of any kind, just that it is a room.

Richard Kendall stated, because, there are no plans at this time.

Gary Barbour stated, but, they aren’t also taking out of that room too. Even if they added one up there at a later date, they are still complying with what they have, or what they had I should say.

John Freeman stated, when you add more living space or specifically in White County, a bedroom, you must add the appropriate septic space for that bedroom.

Richard Kendall stated, if I needed a bedroom, I wouldn’t be taking it out to begin with.

Mrs. Richard Kendall stated, there’s no closet.

Carol Stradling asked, the footprint isn’t changing?

Richard Kendall stated, correct.

Carol Stradling asked, and you’re removing that bottom story because, when you went to assure the foundation that the walls would stay in and the roof would hold up, you found that it wouldn’t and you went to remedy that situation?

Richard Kendall stated, that’s correct.

Attorney Altman stated, the Board has to understand in view of enforcement, if you don’t have, if you have space there it tends to go towards occupancy, human occupancy. If you get something down in the record, you never can get enforcement. It’s hard enough to enforce the things that you can see, let alone the things that are inside of the house that you never know what is going to go on, like you’re saying you have to get something down.

President Thompson asked, that would have to be declared one way or another, don’t we?

Chris Brennan stated, if I understand this situation sitting here listening, the permit was granted for the second floor, so that was approved, so the violation was the demolition of the first floor.

Director Weaver stated, that’s right, and when they did that they broke the grandfathered clause of the distance from the property line.

Chris Brennan asked, but, the permit was granted for whatever use of the second floor, that was initially designed.

Director Weaver stated, the permit was conditioned that it could not be improved, there were conditions on the building permit.

Carol Stradling asked, but, he is reducing it by one bedroom even if it does become one bedroom or a bedroom, which it should not be.

Director Weaver stated, it doesn’t always mean that the septic is adequate for the amount of bedrooms that are in there now.

Gary Barbour asked, so if the grandfathered clause is broken now, what does that do to the rules? How does that change the rules?

Director Weaver stated, that’s why they are here tonight.

Attorney Altman stated, they have to have a variance to continue.

Gary Barbour asked, so if the grandfathered clause was broken and they didn’t have anything started before, would they still have to get approval from the Board of Health before they could get a variance?

Jeff Saylor stated, a building permit was issued without that being a stipulation.

Director Weaver stated, it was issued contingent that it not be a bedroom.

Jeff Saylor asked, but that’s still in place?

Director Weaver stated, that’s right, if that original permit is still valid.

Attorney Altman stated, you certainly want to make sure that it is Jeff because the original permit is now, it was valid, giving the complete change of the circumstance. So I guess I’m just saying that, if you are going to lean on that you want to make sure that you put it in this matter also.

President Thompson asked, once they changed the ground floor, so to speak, that basically non-voided the permit, right? They went back to zero.

Director Weaver stated, because they did not build…

Carol Stradling stated, there was a similar situation not to long ago on Maple Street.

Attorney Altman stated, they had to have a variance too. That was approved too but, that was because it was sewer and water but, that wasn’t so much of an issue.

Carol Stradling stated, but, we can’t decided sewer and water here tonight, we can only vote on it contingent upon that, if we choose to. I haven’t heard him indicate that it would be a bedroom, there is always that possibility but, I have not heard anything said tonight that would indicated that he was going to use it as a bedroom.

Ray Butz stated, that’s right.

Courtney Kendall stated, there are only two of us that live in that house and we already have three bedrooms. I can assure to you that we do not need that as a living space, we have lived there for 8 years without it.

Attorney Altman stated, we certainly can write that as part of the granted variance but, the problem comes with, checking in with compliance. It’s nearly impossible given the resources that are allegated to the department, to go out and knock on door later on.

Chris Brennan asked, just to clarify, even if they made it bedrooms they said that it wouldn’t change from the original number of bedrooms that they have. When they first applied for the permit is that correct?

Attorney Altman stated, at this time, we need Health Department approval.

Richard Kendall asked, would it help if I sat here and said that I would not build the second story. I need a kitchen. My limit is I’m sitting there with it paid for setting in my detached garage, attached garage I’ll eat the cost if that’s what it takes but I need a roof over my kitchen.

Courtney Kendall stated, a kitchen at all would be helpful.

Attorney Altman stated, that would eliminate the Health Department problem.

President Thompson stated, totally.

Attorney Altman stated, totally.

Richard Kendall stated, the problem that I have with that is if the septic goes in in 2 years and I want to have my play room and I’ve got the cost now then I’m out the cost of the roof and then I have to go through all of this again.

Carol Stradling stated, the only reason that we’re questing the Health Department is, because the neighbor said something.

Attorney Altman stated, obviously, you look at the size of the lot too and the coverage of the lot it’s more than just someone stood up and complained, we’re looking at the lot.

Carol Stradling asked, would you be willing to have the Health Department check out your septic system?

Richard Kendall stated, they can come out and die test tomorrow, I’m not opposed to that. There are only two of us that live there and I don’t have a problem with that. Like I said, in the spring of 2002 they are going to come out there and require me to hook up to the septic, which I’m ready to do. I wish that we could do it tomorrow.

Attorney Altman stated, I hear that the applicant indicating that he is willing to amend, and does amend his application to a single story kitchen addition. I hear the applicant also indicate that he will stipulate and agree to have the Health Department check his septic system as part of the condition of this variance. Upon that, unless he says something different, I think that I would instruct the Board to consider his application so amended and it is now a matter before the Board.

Jeff Saylor stated, I don’t think that he is ready to do that yet.

Carol Stradling stated, he said that he would amend it, if he had to.

Jeff Saylor stated, what I’m looking at, if you convert an existing bedroom into a kitchen, now the score is now minus 1 bedroom, so even if that bedroom gets added…

Ray Butz stated, that’s the way that it was.

President Thompson stated, there’s no gain.

Jeff Saylor stated, that’s the Health Department, so why are we arguing over the Health Department?

President Thompson stated, because, it was brought up by the adjoining property owner.

Attorney Altman stated, he no longer has a non-conforming use.

John Freeman asked, if you added that room, then why do you have to get…

Carol Stradling stated, but, he’s not adding a bedroom.

John Freeman asked, adding a bedroom, if he adds it now…..

Courtney Kendall stated, he said that he is not adding bedrooms.

John Freeman stated, you have three bedrooms there now.

Courtney Kendall stated, 4.

Richard Kendall stated, we have four.

President Thompson stated, just a second, everyone stay calm.

John Freeman stated, I support what Jerry amended, I support they should have a kitchen, my goodness.

Courtney Kendall stated, we wanted to add one 2 months ago.

John Freeman stated, I support the amended one, gladly support but, if you add a bedroom the way that the house sits now, it’s a 3-bedroom house. If you add a bedroom you are required just like the rest of us to meet those septic requirements, you’re adding a bedroom.

Courtney Kendall stated, at some time, we are taking one out though.

John Freeman stated, you are taking it out, gone. Under the amended proposal, you are not adding one though.

Richard Kendall stated, under the one that I’m proposing.

President Thompson stated, one last comment from the Board, questions, I want to move on this.

Carol Stradling stated, I think that we had before was….

President Thompson stated, amended.

Carol Stradling stated, Jerry’s proposal.

Attorney Altman stated, I heard him say that and that’s why I was trying to put it in the recorded.

Carol Stradling stated, he has agreed to do two different things to make this work, I don’t know that he needs to do both of those things to make this work.

Richard Kendall stated, I will say that I still don’t have the room over the proposed to make it a second story, I’m not making it a bedroom, that’s how I want it to be voted on.

Chris Brennan stated, that was just my comment that, I was going to recommend to him to go ahead and apply for both rooms, just don’t draw any closets or what ever. I mean stipulation, as long as he is going for the space of the rebuild.

Richard Kendall stated, I want to do it right.

Carol Stradling asked, so what you would like for us to vote on is the variance as proposed for a 2-story building, contingent upon the Health Department approval of the septic system.

Richard Kendall stated, that’s right, if that’s what it takes. I still don’t know why it does but…

President Thompson stated, I understand, if that’s what it takes to work.

Director Weaver asked, my question is though, if he does not get a Health Department approval then where do we go?

Attorney Altman stated, I guess that if it is part of the variance, then he doesn’t have a variance.

President Thompson stated, right.

Director Weaver asked, what happens to his first floor?

Attorney Altman stated, he doesn’t have a variance.

Director Weaver asked, do you understand that?

Richard Kendall stated, no.

Director Weaver stated, if you don’t get a Health Department approval, you are still not going to be able to build, okay? I just want to make sure that you understand that.

Richard Kendall asked, is it going to be quicker for me to take the second story off?

Gary Barbour stated, yes.

Richard Kendall stated, I want to start building, I don’t have a lot of time. I’m doing this myself I still don’t know why I need septic approval either way that I go..

Gary Barbour stated, I don’t understand that either.

Richard Kendall stated, I’m not taking a bedroom out, I’m not adding one, and they didn’t ask me that to begin with anyway.

Carol Stradling asked, other than a disgruntled neighbor that we have…

Director Weaver stated, but, I did question this at the beginning, I went down and talked to Mr. Shookman before the original permit was ever issued….

Richard Kendall asked, and it did not require one correct?

Director Weaver stated, it did not require one.

Courtney Kendall asked, what is the issue?

Richard Kendall stated, that’s what we don’t understand, what the issue is.

Courtney Kendall stated, it is improving the neighborhood our properties.

Carol Stradling stated, as Mr. Freeman has said though, now that you have torn that bedroom off and it’s not there, if you started from today then you… At any rate, perhaps the quickest way to do this would be to approve the 5.2’ West side setback variance to rebuild part of 1st floor of the home, to add a second story above this section of the home. The second story contingent upon a Health Department approval would that meet everyone’s issues?

Richard Kendall asked, that means that I can’t start until when?

Carol Stradling stated, you could start the first floor, you could do the second floor after, the Heath Department approves your septic.

President Thompson asked, do you have that in writing of some fashion?

Richard Kendall asked, I do live on a lake, if I do fail my septic, where do we go from there?

Courtney Kendall stated, you can only finish the one story.

Director Weaver stated, you can only do the one story.

President Thompson stated, but, it is your kitchen.

Director Weaver stated, you couldn’t do the second story.

Ray Butz stated, you are just going to be out the second story.

Richard Kendall asked, where does that, I’m looking at tie frame. Now, we have already been put off 2 months, I’m wanting to start as soon as I can.

President Thompson stated, you can probably start on the kitchen tomorrow morning.

Director Weaver stated, after we get the permit issued.

Richard Kendall stated, the thing that you have to realize is, I can build the walls up but…

Director Weaver stated, can’t go on.

Richard Kendall stated, not knowing, I can’t do anything other than that.

President Thompson stated, I understand what you are saying but, we have to go on what we have.

Kerry Muller stated, I guess that it is better to build an unsound structure in White County than to build a structure sound. For a 2-story support, once you take down an old grandfather clause or an old wall and try to rebuild something that was already originally there which, would need to support a roof and a second floor.

Carol Stradling stated, I don’t think that is what we’re deciding here. What we’re saying here is we need to see things built according to the plans submitted.

Kerry Muller asked, exactly, and isn’t the Area Plan Commission supposed to build sound buildings?

Carol Stradling stated, we can’t do the inspections, to be certain if something is sound or not.

Kerry Muller stated, exactly, so you leave it up to…

Carol Stradling stated, your brother-in-law probably, in tearing that down, the only problem was that it wasn’t far back

Kerry Muller asked, because, John Freeman over here doesn’t like it or doesn’t get along, I’m just asking?

President Thompson stated, no, we’re not interested in that.

Kerry Muller asked, so just say that I want to build on and I have a faulty floor. At what point should I stop and start this all over when you’re building on the same foundation that is there?

Director Weaver stated, let me explain something. When they realized that the foundation was no good, if they had called me before they removed that first floor off, we could have discussed their options at that time. I could have explained to them that grandfathered clause and if they took that wall down they were breaking that grandfathered clause and it would have possibly been avoided.

Ray Butz stated, I think in the near future, what you’re talking about is going to be settled because, we are going to get a building inspector which, is going to stop a lot of that.

Kerry Muller asked, so right now you’re relying on the homeowner….

Courtney Kendall stated, to know everything.

Kerry Muller stated, which wants their home to be sound so, in all intentions, Rich did exactly what anyone else would have done. If you had something faulty and you’re wanting to put all of the excess weight on top of it, you wouldn’t do it and due to the fact that you find that what do you do.

Courtney Kendall stated, your natural instincts to make it right.

Kerry Muller stated, there’s no hiding anything.

President Thompson stated, we have an amended variance before us. Is the Board ready to vote on that?

Jeff Saylor asked, could you repeat that?

Carol Stradling stated, they are requesting a 5.2’ West side setback variance to rebuild part of the first floor of the home and to begin adding the second story above this section of home which could contingent upon the Health Department approval. So the first story, they can begin the second story needs to wait until the Health Department goes out.

President Thompson stated, that’s the best situation that we can do with what we have.

Richard Kendall asked, I just want to get this going, do I just call Godlove to come out and do a dye test?

Director Weaver stated, you need to contact the Health Department.

President Thompson asked, are you satisfied? Are we ready to vote? Let’s vote.

With no further discussion the Board voted.

The Board finds the following:

1. The property is currently zoned L-1, Lake District.

2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.1114.

3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.

4. That there were objectors present at the meeting.

5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.

6. That the request is for a 5.2’ West side setback variance to rebuild part of the first floor of the existing home and to add a 2nd story above the section on Lot 68 in Gingrich Addition in Union Township, White County, Indiana.

COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located South of Monticello at 5839 E. Sheridan Road.

7. That the variance herein authorized and granted is not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make typical or recurrent the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said condition or situation of the above said specific piece of property, and the board additionally finds that the above said variance is based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variance under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.

The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 5 affirmative and 0 negative.

Attorney Altman stated, subject to the conditions that they have found in the minutes, as for the second story, the variance was approved. You need to get the Health Department approval and a building permit before you proceed.

Richard Kendall asked, I can still get that permit in the morning correct?

Director Weaver stated, don’t come in right at 8:00, give me some time to get that in the computer, maybe more like 9:00, so that I have it ready to go.

****

#1129 Kimberly Nagel; Requesting a 3’ South side setback variance to build a detached garage on lot #24 on Walnut Street in the Original Plat of Monon. The property is located at 312 Walnut Street.

President Thompson asked, we have anyone here to represent this request?

Dean Chaney stated, I’m Kim’s finance and I live at that residence. I think that in March we came before the Board and we got a variance and a building permit for a 24’ x 24’ garage. We changed our minds, the 3’ South side setback will not change but, we wanted to increase the 3’ West side which, is the rear along the alley, from 24’ to 30’. It’s just extending along our property line next to the alley so we can put little larger garage doors in it.

President Thompson asked, have we had any response?

Director Weaver stated, no, I have not received anything on this. There has been a permit issued for the 24’ x 24’ garage, is that what is in construction now? Is it 24’?

Dean Chaney stated, kind of.

Director Weaver stated, that’s what I was afraid of. I think that it’s larger.

President Thompson asked, do you really?

Director Weaver asked, how big is it?

Dean Chaney stated, we have already had a permit and a variance and everything. We didn’t have an opportunity to get some contractors in which, now days, if you get them 3 months down the road you’ll lucky. So I had them start construction Tuesday because, I didn’t think that there was going to be any problem. The only place that we’re extending it is along our property and no one else’s. It has already actually, been started. I wouldn’t have done that, if I hadn’t already had a permit and a variance on it.

Director Weaver asked, how tall is this garage going to be?

Dean Chaney stated, it’s going to meet the 15’.

Director Weaver stated, because, it looks like they were possibly putting a floor in the middle of it, that’s why I was questioning that.

Dean Chaney stated, we’re going to a pull down stairway, so I can have storage. It’s just going to be a garage with a pull down stairway.

Attorney Altman asked, it’s not going to be over 15’?

Dean Chaney stated, right.

Carol Stradling stated, from the floor to the top of the roof.

Dean Chaney stated, correct. He’s measured it and I have measured it and we’re right under 15’.

Carol Stradling asked, but, these walls that we have, pictures of that started Tuesday?

Dean Chaney stated, yes.

Director Weaver stated, I was out there Wednesday.

Dean Chaney stated, JP Construction, you can ask them, he started Tuesday morning.

Attorney Altman asked, does anyone have a plan that says that it's a 24’ x 30’?

Carol Stradling stated, no, our plans says a 24’ x 24’.

Attorney Altman stated, the advertisement said 24’ x 30’.

Director Weaver asked, is that in the file?

Attorney Altman stated, I don’t see one.

Director Weaver asked, I know that he had a revised survey. You got a revised survey on that correct?

Dean Chaney stated, yes.

Carol Stradling stated, my survey says 24’ x 24’.

Attorney Altman stated, I just wondered, I couldn’t see it when you started saying 24’ x 30’, I couldn’t see it any where in the file.

Director Weaver asked, I wonder if that wasn’t put in his building permit file, we advertised it, we have handled it all a long as a 24’ x 30’.

Dean Chaney asked, remember when I had to take that back Director Weaver, he had to take off of the old garage that we tore down because, it was still showing.

Director Weaver stated, this is still the old one that we have in your paperwork but, we have handled it as a 24’ x 30’ and there is, I can vouch, there is a survey showing this.

President Thompson asked, okay. Is there anyone here opposed to the variance this evening?

Director Weaver stated, if this is approved, bring me in a copy of your survey, your new survey showing the 24’ x 30’.

President Thompson asked, is there any other discussion from the Board?

Carol Stradling stated, in the future, if you go through a variance, don’t start the work with out the variance.

Dean Chaney stated, I already had one permit and one variance, I didn’t know that we had to get an adjustment.

Attorney Altman stated, we haven’t fined and we did not this evening but, it has certainly been the back of several minds. I know that and it happens and it gets expensive with the Board of Zoning Appeals. This is on City water and City sewer right?

Dean Chaney stated, right.

Attorney Altman stated, just for the record. The other thing is, it’s awful nice when the Director can say someone called me, the applicant called me and said I’m doing this and inform us ahead of time that they are doing it. You’re sort of betting, it makes for an awfully nicer record.

Dean Chaney stated, actually, when I came in I did, I asked if I can go ahead and get started without any two of those permits. It wasn’t formal and we didn’t do anything until this week.

Attorney Altman stated, I would have got that in writing.

Director Weaver stated, if he had asked us, we would have told him that if he did that, that was in his own risk. We would not have told him yes, he could go ahead.

Carol Stradling stated, if we declined the variance, then you would be behind in construction instead of ahead because, you would have to move that 6’ shorter and move the foundation.

Attorney Altman stated, but, you don’t have the Health Department problem here and that’s what sorts this a little different from the last one that we had. Where they began and then they decided that they could go ahead.

President Thompson asked, is there any other discussion? Are you ready to vote? Let's vote.

With no further discussion the board voted.

The Board finds the following:

1. That the property is properly zoned R-2, One and Two Family Residential.

2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.1114.

3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.

4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.

5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.

6. That the request is for a 3’ South side setback variance to build a detached garage on Lot 24 on Walnut Street in the Original Plat of the Town of Monon, White County, Indiana.

COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located in the Town of Monon at 312 Walnut Street.

 

7. That the variance herein authorized and granted is not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make typical or recurrent the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said condition or situation of the above said specific piece of property, and the board additionally finds that the above said variance is based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variance under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.

The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 5 affirmative and 0 negative.

Attorney Altman stated, 30’, you need to get your building permit properly amended before you proceed.

****

#1130 Edward & Majorie Glamkowski; Requesting a 12’ front setback variance to build a new home on lot #3 in West Side Addition to the Town of Wolcott. The property is located on the South side of South Street, in between 3rd & 4th Street.

President Thompson asked, I assume that you are Glamkowski?

Chris Williams stated, I’m buying the property off of them.

Director Weaver stated, let me fill the Board in on this one. As I came in this evening, he pointed out that we had received two surveys from Mr. Milligan on this property. The first survey showed the house the opposite direction of what your survey shows. Our understanding is that he was amending his request and turning the house to what you see here. He informs me tonight….

Attorney Altman asked, which one is which?

Director Weaver stated, this is the one…

President Thompson asked, plan A or plan B?

Director Weaver stated, plan B.

Attorney Altman asked, what is the date on it?

Director Weaver stated, July 10.

Attorney Altman stated, okay, plan A and the other one has what kind of date on it.

Director Weaver stated, plan A was the plan that was filed at the time that the variance was filed.

President Thompson stated, it’s wrong.

Director Weaver stated, well, no, I found out today that it was the right one.

Chris Williams stated, A is right and B is wrong.

Director Weaver stated, B was their alternative plan if needed.

President Thompson asked, where is A?

Director Weaver stated, in the file attached to the application.

Chris Williams asked, can I explain something?

Attorney Altman stated no, not yet.

Director Weaver stated, wait, let me finish explaining. This request was advertised properly according to plan A.

Attorney Altman asked, would you run us a copy of that off please? I would like for you to make copies…

President Thompson stated, mark it correct plan.

Attorney Altman stated, so what you’re saying Director Weaver, while you are gone, so we can talk further, is what you have in your hands which basically turns the house 90 degrees….

Chris Williams stated, facing South.

Attorney Altman stated, is what was advertised.

Director Weaver stated, it is what was advertised but, it is not what the agenda shows and it is not what the adjacent property owners were notified.

Chris Williams stated, I have a copy of that if you want to see it.

Attorney Altman stated, let me circulate that.

President Thompson asked, do we have any adjacent property owners here tonight?

Chris Williams stated, actually, there are 2 vacant lots on the side of me.

Attorney Altman stated, from a legal point of view, as long as it is advertised correctly and it was properly posted we can proceed on what was advertised.

Chris Williams stated, that’s fine.

Attorney Altman stated, so we don’t have, now that doesn’t mean that you approve it but, at least we don’t have that legal intestacies.

Chris Williams stated, this will put the house facing South Street like all of the other houses. If it is the other way, the front of the house would be facing my neighbor which, we don’t want that. We want to face the road like everyone else. There is an alley running through there and we have the paperwork on it, it was closed, we have the additional 8’.

Jeff Saylor asked, Jerry, what are the side setbacks?

Attorney Altman stated, I think that they are…

Carol Stradling stated, I think that the setback line, the 8’.

Attorney Altman stated, yes, I’m sure that it’s 8’, that’s what that is on there.

Chris Williams stated, the 8’ on there is there was an alley, closed, and we received 8’ of that alley so instead of the 60’ lot, it’s 68’.

Ray Butz stated, 68’.

Carol Stradling stated, but, you’re still 3.5’ from the new one.

Chris Williams stated, each side, right.

Carol Stradling asked, how wide are the lots on either side of you? Are they going to be 60’ or is one going to be 60’ and the other one 68’?

Chris Williams stated, there are 4 lots, one owner owns 2 of them, the first and second lot and they are 60’ x 120’. Well, the first one would be 60’ x 120’ and the second one would be 68’ x 120’.

An audience member stated, yes, because, they received the other half of the alley.

There was discussion between the applicant and the Board members.

Attorney Altman stated, let me see what the advertisement really said.

Director Weaver stated, sides and front, I looked earlier. That’s what I said, the agenda, the notice to adjoiners is incorrect, the advertising was correct.

Chris Williams stated, everyone was notified, they had certified mail.

President Thompson asked, but, did they get notified….

Chris Williams asked, the variance?

President Thompson stated, no, of the correct lay of the house.

Chris Williams stated, yes.

President Thompson asked, you know that?

Chris Williams stated, yes, we did that ourselves.

President Thompson asked, how recent?

An audience member stated, yesterday.

Chris Williams stated, I have talked to the adjoining land owners all of the way through this.

President Thompson stated, okay.

Chris Williams stated, they said for me to cut down trees if I had to.

Attorney Altman asked, was it advertised in the paper right?

Director Weaver stated, it was advertised in the paper correctly.

Attorney Altman asked, the people adjoining, did they get correct or incorrect?

Director Weaver stated, incorrect.

President Thompson stated, but, they had delivered the correct.

Director Weaver stated, I was not aware of that.

An audience member stated, Susie Hageman, the realtor we went through for this property, notified them also.

Attorney Altman asked, but when did they do it?

President Thompson stated, yesterday.

Director Weaver stated, we have not had any calls on this, we have not had any questions on this.

Chris Williams stated, I’m close friends with everyone that lives next to me, I have been talking to them through this whole thing.

Director Weaver stated, there are no houses adjacent to this.

President Thompson stated, they are vacant.

Director Weaver stated, there are vacant lots next to this.

Chris Williams stated, Curt Miller owns the first and second lot and then the 3rd lot, I’m going to purchase and then Fred Sheets owns the 4th lot.

Attorney Altman stated, the most that I can say is, if they get a waiver, if they wish to proceed, if they get a waiver from both adjoining lots…

Chris Williams stated, that’s no problem.

Director Weaver stated, signed and notarized.

Chris Williams asked, I just bring the paper to Director Weaver, right?

Director Weaver stated, it needs to be signed and notarized.

Chris Williams asked, by both adjoining…

Director Weaver stated, each one.

Chris Williams stated, that’s no problem.

Attorney Altman stated, I have to prove it now, so you might as well get it ready and let me approve it first. Then you get it signed and notarized and it will have to be recorded.

Chris Williams stated, that’s no problem. If that’s what it takes to get it through, I just want to get done before the snow flies.

An audience member asked, then they bring it to you for approval and then go get it done?

Attorney Altman stated, yes.

Chris Williams asked, so it just needs to say it’s okay for me to build the house the way that it is on this…

Director Weaver stated, you might even want to attach a copy of the survey and refer to it.

President Thompson asked, do we need that in the form of a motion?

Attorney Altman stated, I certainly think that it would be a contingency of the Board voting on it. If you don’t get it, you don’t have a variance.

An audience member stated, we’ll get that, that’s no problem.

Chris Williams stated, that won’t be any problem. I can have it tomorrow.

President Thompson asked, do you want to make that a motion?

Jeff Saylor stated, I make a motion that the acceptance of this variance be contingent upon the adjoining property owners signing the waiver of notice.

Director Weaver asked, adjoining meaning to the East and to the West or all of the way around?

Jeff Saylor stated, to the East and to the West.

Attorney Altman stated, I would say all of the way around if they all have been given proper notice, it should be all of the way around.

Chris Williams stated, that was another thing, we went for the full alley closing but, the South there is like 14 lots that are through there….

Attorney Altman stated, you need to get adjoining…

Chris Williams stated, the mother owns one lot and then the son owns the rest of the lots. He lives in Lafayette and he wants nothing to do with this. We sent certified mailings to all the people and they sent certified mailings back, that way we wouldn’t have to involve him and his mother because, they got in a fight over the alley being closed.

Attorney Altman stated, you just have to get adjoining, I can’t say it any other way.

Director Weaver stated, a complete circle around your property.

Chris Williams stated, that involves him again.

Director Weaver asked, that will include him?

An audience member stated, he has noting to do with it.

Attorney Altman stated, if he owns it he’s involved.

An audience member stated, he doesn’t own it.

Director Weaver asked, Jeff, is that the way that you want it done or do you want it East and West?

President Thompson stated, we’re talking about a street here.

Director Weaver stated, they have just recently vacated that alley.

Chris Williams stated, just part of it, the rest of the alley is still open. To the South the alley is still open, they have not closed their part of the alley.

Director Weaver stated, the alley easement runs to the street.

President Thompson stated, right, but I’m saying…

Chris Williams stated, so I don’t have anything to do with the South, the people to the South because, the alley is still open. The only people that I’m involved with basically, is Kurt Miller and Samantha Miller to the West of my lot because, the alley runs between ours. Fred Sheets isn’t even involved in the 4th lot. He owns the 4th lot and the alley is on the opposite side, so I really don’t even have anything to do with him.

Carol Stradling stated, the gentlemen on lot 4 would be effected by you positioning your house 3.5’ from his property line.

Chris Williams stated, right.

Carol Stradling stated, so he may not be involved in the alley way but, we do need notification from him.

Chris Williams stated, he won’t be a problem at all and Kurt and Samantha won’t be a problem at all.

Attorney Altman stated, I guess that I can’t say this any other way, if you don’t, you haven’t properly noticed everyone, we don’t act.

Chris Williams stated, but, they were notified.

Attorney Altman stated, but, they were not notified properly by law.

Chris Williams stated, I was told to send registered letters to them.

Attorney Altman stated, but, it has to have the right survey on it and the right setbacks.

Director Weaver stated, we’re not referring to the alley we’re referring to the variance, we mailed those notifications out.

Chris Williams asked, is this going to go on another month?

Director Weaver stated, who did we notify, Jerry? The only two adjoining property owners that we received was Keith & Ruth Fields and Paul & Jerry Mantix.

Chris Williams stated, I don’t even know those people.

An audience member stated, you have the wrong file.

Director Weaver stated, you have the wrong file. Okay, we notified Kurt Miller, Oberlander Trust Virginia Overland...

Chris Williams stated, Virginia is the mother and Allen is the son.

Attorney Altman stated, I can’t sugar coat this folks, they just have to do it.

Chris Williams asked, so were they notified or weren’t they?

Director Weaver stated, they were, they were notified, but incorrectly.

Attorney Altman stated, so you have to correct it by a waiver or re-notify them and we would hear it next month.

And audience member stated, next month, another month, in the wintertime before he can get something done.

Attorney Altman stated, and we’re offering a way to do it now. If you want to proceed fine…

Chris Williams stated, if it…

Director Weaver stated, the other option is to go with plan B.

Attorney Altman stated, no that was not properly advertised.

Director Weaver stated, well, it included the front.

Chris Williams stated, in plan B all that we need is the front variance, the sides would be fine. I really don’t want to look at my neighbor’s house the whole time.

Director Weaver stated, so he would be downsizing what was advertised, he would not be increasing.

President Thompson stated, no, not necessarily, I’m trying to listen to both conversations, you won’t be a month later.

Gary Barbour stated, the signatures would be contingent upon, having those signatures it could possibly be faster than that.

President Thompson stated, all that you need to get them to sign off and get that back to this office and you’re ready to go.

Chris Williams asked, bring it to the young lady sitting behind you?

President Thompson stated, Director Weaver. That’s all that we’re suggesting to you, we do not want to delay you another 30 days, no.

Chris Williams stated, I can get you Virginia but, Allan is not going to do it.

An audience member stated, what about her son that owns the property on the other part, you sent it to Virginia and…

Chris Williams stated, Samantha Kirts….

An audience member stated, and Sheets.

Carol Stradling asked, do you know these ones here, is this Virginia?

An audience member stated, Virginia owns this home on this lot and then the rest of this is a trust for her son.

Chris Williams stated, right, he lives in Lafayette and he just doesn’t, if you want them to sign, he will go through but he doesn’t want anything to do with it. He and his mother are arguing, it is under a trust for Virginia.

Attorney Altman stated, whoever can correctly sign, needs to sign, whoever that is.

Chris Williams stated, I can probably get it but, there will probably be an argument.

Attorney Altman stated, whoever is appropriate to sign needs to sign and have it notarized.

Chris Williams asked, if that is in a trust under Virginia…

Director Weaver stated, if she is the one in authority to sign for the trust then that’s whose signature…

Chris Williams asked, where would I check that out at though? Clerks Office?

Attorney Altman stated, the Auditors Office would show who owns it.

Director Weaver stated, yes, but I don’t know that it would show who has authorization who could sign.

Attorney Altman stated, you could ask Virginia and see what she says and what she shows you.

Director Weaver stated, before you get these signatures, you need a document drawn up, you need to have Mr. Altman approve that document, then get your signatures, notarizations and bring them back to my office.

Chris Williams asked, as soon as I bring those signatures back, it will be a done deal? Then I just need my permits?

President Thompson stated, yes.

An audience member stated, we have to have Susie Hageman do the paperwork on this.

Attorney Altman stated, tell her to give me a call tomorrow and fax it over and I will approve it tomorrow.

Chris Williams stated, that’s what we will do.

Chris Williams asked, for the house facing South Street?

President Thompson stated, right.

An audience member asked, does Susie have your fax number?

Attorney Altman gave his fax number to the applicant.

With no further discussion the Board voted.

The Board finds the following:

1. That the property is properly zoned R-2, One and Two Family Residential.

2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.1114.

3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.

4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.

5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.

6. That the request is for a 12’ front setback variance to build a new home on Lot 3 in West Side Addition to the Town of Wolcott, White County, Indiana and 8.00 feet by 120.00 feet along the West side of Lot 3, being part of a vacated alley.

COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located in the Town of Wolcott on the south side of South Street, in between 3rd Street and 4th Street.

7. That the variance herein authorized and granted is not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make typical or recurrent the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said condition or situation of the above said specific piece of property, and the board additionally finds that the above said variance is based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variance under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.

The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 5 affirmative and 0 negative.

Attorney Altman stated, contingent upon all of the property owners signing and waiving notice. You need to get that into me and like I said I will be in all day tomorrow.

Chris Williams stated, okay.

****

#1131 Arthur O. & Charlotte D. Siegfried; Owner; Chris Brennan, Applicant; Requesting a 5’ East side setback and a 5’ West side setback variance to build a room addition and unroofed porch onto the existing home on .54 of an acre. The property is located in Liberty Township at 7844 N. Sparrow Court.

President Thompson asked, who is representing this request?

Chris Brennan was representing this request.

President Thompson asked, do you have any additional information, other than what I read?

Chris Brennan stated, no, I believe the new footprints are extending 4’ from the existing footprint. There is an existing knee wall that comes out from the home. The entire addition is within an existing deck, the footprint of an existing deck and I believe that Director Weaver has letters from both adjoining neighbors stating that they agree or have no problems with it.

President Thompson asked, do you have that file?

Attorney Altman stated, I have that file.

Chris Brennan stated, you may have misunderstood, that it may just be the adjoining landowners.

Attorney Altman stated, I don’t see anything in here from either one stating anything.

Director Weaver stated, I don’t know that we have had any complaints on this one or any problems on this one. We are missing a survey that he had given to someone.

President Thompson stated, yes, I have it.

Carol Stradling stated, I have it.

Attorney Altman stated, that may be the original, this looks an awful like an original.

Director Weaver stated, no, this isn’t it, this is the one that I made the copy of.

Carol Stradling stated, it was folded. I gave it back to him Director Weaver and I wrote on the top of it. Does he have the one that is written up at the top, 60 and 68, that is the one that I had.

President Thompson asked, she said that there were no negative responses. Is there anyone here opposed to the variance this evening? Is there any discussion or concerns from the Board?

Carol Stradling asked, you own all of that, it’s just a long strip isn’t it, with the ingress and egress easement through the middle of it?

Chris Brennan stated, right, there is a home and a garage and then that front section is what everyone uses for their leach field. There is a pumping station that takes it out to that long strip up by the road, up by County Road 775.

Attorney Altman stated, so the lift station provides sewage treatment for the property.

Chris Brennan stated, right.

Attorney Altman stated, water is by well.

President Thompson asked, any questions from the Board?

Attorney Altman asked, single story?

Chris Brennan stated, yes.

With no further discussion the Board voted.

The Board finds the following:

1. That the property is properly zoned L-1, Lake Residence.

2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.1114.

3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.

4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.

5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.

6. That the request is for a 5’ East side setback variance and a 5’ West side setback variance to build a room addition and unroofed porch onto the existing home on a tract of land out of the West Half (1/2) of the Northwest Quarter (1/4) of Section 21, Township 28 North, Range 3 West in Liberty Township, White County, Indiana and described more fully as follows:

 

Beginning at a point which is South 0 Degrees East (S 0° E) One Thousand Seven Hundred Fifty-Seven and Three Tenths (1,757.3) and South Eighty-Eight Degrees and Fifteen Minutes East (S 88° 15’ E) Two Hundred Thirty-Seven and Four Tenths (237.4) Feet from the Northwest Corner of the above said Section Twenty-One (21) and running thence South Eighty-Eight Degrees and Fifteen Minutes East (S 88° 15’ E) Forty-Four and Five Tenths (44.5) Feet, thence North Zero Degrees West (N 0° W) Five Hundred Thirty-Seven and Seven Tenths (537.7) Feet to the waters edge, thence in a Southwesterly direction along the waters edge to a point which is North Zero Degrees West (N 0° W) Five Hundred Eleven and Nine Tenths (511.9) Feet from the point of beginning, thence South Zero Degrees East (S 0° E) Five Hundred Eleven and Nine Tenths (511.9) Feet to the point of beginning, containing Fifty-Four Hundredths (.54) of an acre, more or less.

COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located in Liberty Township at 7844 N. Sparrow Court.

7. That the variances herein authorized and granted are not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make reasonable practicable the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variances are based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorized the above said variances under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.

The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 5 affirmative and 0 negative.

Attorney Altman stated, you need to get a building permit before you proceed.

****

President Thompson asked, is there any other business to be brought before the Board?

Director Weaver stated, just that we had budget hearings, Jeff Saylor, Carol Stradling and Ron Pollock from the A.P.C. attended. The Council even talked to the Board members. I don’t know anything on it. I didn’t even walk out without a feel, I do think that this building inspector thing is going to go through, it’s going to happen the first of the year. I am concerned though because, I think that it’s going to be out of our control, I think that the Commissioners are going to oversee this position, hiring and everything, which I’m very concerned about.

Jeff Saylor stated, that was the impression that I got too.

Director Weaver stated, yes, I think that the Board members were concerned about that too.

Carol Stradling stated, I don’t think that their building inspector is going to do what we have envisioned what a building inspector doing.

Jeff Saylor stated, I’m hoping that there will be other opportunities for some input from this Board and Area Plan before they finalize it.

Director Weaver stated, you need to let the County Commissioners know that you want more input. That’s what it’s going to have to come down to. We’re not going to be able to sit back and hope that they are going to contact us, we have to let them know that we want them to work with us.

Jeff Saylor stated, you got the impression, that the building inspectors were created by like, an act of god and they could only do this one certain way. I think that we can create them anyway that we want to.

Gary Barbour asked, who does the building inspector report to in other counties.

Director Weaver stated, I don’t know that got answered, I think that it’s a little bit of both, Gary.

Attorney Altman asked, both ways being what Director Weaver?

Director Weaver stated, some of them deal with Commissioners and some of them deal with the Area Plan.

Jeff Saylor asked, when we vote on communication towers, I was wondering if when a company comes in to request a variance on a communication tower, if they can be instructed when they come to the meeting that they need to show a site map showing any tower within a 30 mile radius and a complete detailed explanation as to why or why not any of these adjacent towers can’t be used. That would eliminate a lot of the same thing that we do.

Director Weaver stated, part of that, if you think back, I think that you have been getting part of this in the last few request. I have drafted up a form telling them this is what the Board likes to have, I’m not telling them that it’s required but, telling them this is things that the Board has been known to request. No, I have not told them any towers within a 30-mile radius so, I will add that I will change that to where it reflects it.

Attorney Altman stated, it sounds like a good one.

President Thompson asked, do you realize that if they put one at Helderle’s, you’re going to have one on Clouse’s, Helderle’s….

Director Weaver stated, every mile.

President Thompson stated, there is three within 1 mile this way and one mile that way.

Director Weaver stated, this, which I just learned this today, these two towers that are going in here are a little different than the towers that we have had in the past. This is a tower building company that is coming to request these, it is not Sprint GTE. Verizon it’s an independent tower company to where they build the tower so people can locate on it, they don’t represent Sprint, they don’t represent GTE, and they don’t represent Verizon.

Jeff Saylor stated, I think that most people are requesting things that fit into their existing scheme, without trying to adapt it to…

Director Weaver stated, that’s right.

Attorney Altman stated, one thing that I can add to that Jeff is, they have it certified by an appropriate engineer.

Jeff Saylor stated, that’s fine, I don’t have any problem with just requiring them provide that to us.

Director Weaver stated, the site surveys that they provide, does have to be done by an engineer.

Jeff Saylor stated, but that doesn’t show the 30-mile radius.

Director Weaver stated, the reason that they were tabled tonight is because, they had a representative from their company in my office this afternoon and she was not aware of these variances. I commented to her that we had got very little information from this company about this request and that I really look for the request to be tabled or denied due to lack of information. She got on the phone to the gentlemen that was already up here, and told him what I had said. He chose to table it, to provide us more information, so he is going to be contact with me tomorrow, so I will tell him what it is that you would like to have.

Jeff Saylor stated, as long as that is agreeable with everyone else, that’s kind of a standard thing that usually comes up every time.

Director Weaver stated, I have tried to encourage that so we did have enough information but, I was impressed that this was a little different than what we had before. I told them too that they should have been here 2 years ago and then we could have eliminated some of these towers.

Attorney Altman stated, I will tell you what, just between you, me the fence post and the record, and there is no reason why you approve things folks. There is nothing in the record, there is nothing in the law, and nothing anywhere that says that B.Z.A. should rubber stamp things that are brought in, whether it’s objected to or not objected to.

Carol Stradling stated, I would feel more comfortable if we could come up with a fee schedule, there are times that I would really like to assign a fee…

Director Weaver stated, a penalty you mean?

Carol Stradling stated, a penalty but, without a schedule…

Director Weaver stated, you want a broke down schedule of…

Carol Stradling stated, or something, some kind of frame work because otherwise, it’s just arbitrary.

Director Weaver stated, what we have right now is 25 dollars to 500 dollars a day.

Gary Barbour asked, didn’t we propose a schedule at one time and the Commissioners turned it down?

Director Weaver stated, denied it.

Jeff Saylor asked, couldn’t you do it by the square footage?

Director Weaver stated, we were going to work on that, Attorney Altman has got me some information but, we have not gotten it to the A.P.C. yet.

President Thompson asked, don’t you think that if an inspector comes about, more than likely we’ll have something a little bit better to go by?

Carol Stradling stated, I don’t know, what Jeff’s opinion was or not but, I don’t think that it is safe to sit here in this room and say an inspector will be doing this, or an inspector will be doing that. I think that until we hear it from the Commissioners that is what they think that an inspector is going to be doing, it is safe to assume that an inspector will not being doing it.

Director Weaver stated, that’s why the Board needs to get involved with the County Commissioners, and it’s not going to do me any good by myself to do it because, they don’t want to listen to me…

Carol Stradling stated, it makes sense to you and me sitting here saying that’s what the building inspector is going to do…

Director Weaver stated, I think that the budget hearing was very eye opening for Carol.

Carol Stradling stated, it’s not the same thing at all.

Director Weaver stated, that’s what I’m trying to get across to the Board.

President Thompson stated, I was with you a year ago and it seems like it is whole new territory to them, other counties have it, you read about it.

Director Weaver stated, and they are doing, the Commissioners are doing research into those other counties.

President Thompson stated, it’s not something that is totally brand new, we’re not breaking the ice.

Attorney Altman stated, the only things is Carol’s comment, a real caution, you can’t assume this is going to be minimized or eliminated.

Director Weaver stated, and we can’t assume that they are going to come to us and talk to us about this because, this discussion about this was going on long before I was even made aware of it. So they aren’t going to come to us and they aren’t going to include us unless we give them no choice and that’s what it’s going to come to.

Attorney Altman stated, it really comes down to Board members, not me and not Director Weaver need to say it…

Director Weaver stated, that’s right.

Attorney Altman stated, because, we’re just hired guns so to speak, and that’s how they look at it and that’s okay I don’t have any, I’m not offended by that.

Director Weaver stated, the Board needs to come across as a Board, not individuals. The Board needs to make a stand as a Board.

Gary Barbour asked, can’t you make recommendations to the Board as to what you would like to see from us, so that we can review it and then add to it or delete from it.

Director Weaver stated, me make recommendations to you as a Board.

Gary Barbour stated, what you would like to see, so that we are all in agreement to what is on, you obviously, have some idea what you want to see.

Director Weaver stated, really from what the Board is saying, I haven’t heard anything that I’m not in agreeance with. I see what they are saying, they feel like a building inspector does, I also see what Carol is saying that the Board feels that we need.

Jeff Saylor stated, see we were looking at the inspector, also looking at the site variance, if that was adhered to, if things were built with proper setbacks and that came across as, I think that it was Art Anderson, you’re talking about two different things. Building inspectors don’t do that and that’s when I was thinking well, yes, they can.

Director Weaver stated, if you make it as part of their job, yes, they can, that’s right.

Jeff Saylor stated, it would be nice that if what we voted on has it’s checks and balance system someone out there that just looks, not just…

Director Weaver stated, I agree.

Carol Stradling asked, other than proper setbacks what do we want the building inspector to check, inspect? Mobile homes?

President Thompson stated, yes.

Carol Stradling asked, height restrictions?

President Thompson stated, this is too general but it’s just basically, just to inspect that the project is as advertised, I realize that is wide-open but…

Director Weaver stated, setbacks are met, that they are building what they are permitted for.

Jeff Saylor stated, it would have stopped a lot of this stuff tonight.

Director Weaver stated, that’s right, it would have stopped both of those.

Gary Barbour stated, assisting and enforcing ordinances…

Director Weaver stated, but, to them, that is my job. That’s the way that they came across.

Gary Barbour stated, you’re not an inspector.

Director Weaver stated, but, that’s the way that they came across at the meeting, they feel like, they didn’t come out and say that was my job but, that’s the understanding that I got from them.

Carol Stradling asked, isn’t there a listing of what your powers are somewhere?

Director Weaver stated, somewhere.

Carol Stradling stated, if that’s not in there then you don’t have the power to do that.

Director Weaver stated, I think that something that has given this more interest is the fact that Mr. Braaksma is now Fire Chief and does not have the time to do, both Fire Chief and inspections.

*****

Jeff Saylor made motion to adjourn.

Carol Stradling seconded the motion.

The meeting adjourned.

Respectfully submitted,

Diann Weaver, Director

White County Area Plan Commission