Get Adobe Flash player

The White County Area Plan Commission met Monday, January 10, 2000, at 7:30 p.m. in the Commissioner’s Meeting Room, Second Floor, County Building, Monticello, Indiana.

 

Members attending were: Jay Clawson, Gary Barbour, Ray Butz, Charles Anderson, Ron Pollock, Stephen Fisher, Don Ward and Rick Raderstorf. Also attending were Attorney Altman and Director Diann Weaver.

Visitors Attending were: Ronald L. Orr, Mr. & Mrs. C.A. Martz, Ollie Hickman, Mike & Ashley Niehaus, Linda Carter, Helen R. Beiswanger, Harold D. Beiswanger, Steven W. Carter, Warte Floyd and Jody Orr. 

President Anderson stated, first on the agenda is reorganization. We have to have an election of officers here, nominations of officers.

 

President Anderson conducted the elections of officers. Jay Clawson motioned that Charles Anderson remain as President with Ray Butz seconding the motion. Jay Clawson motion that Steve Fisher remain as Vice-President with Ray Butz seconding the motion. Jay Clawson motioned that Ray Butz remain as Secretary with Ron Pollock seconding the motion. Jay Clawson motioned that Jerry Altman remain attorney with Ron Pollock seconding the motion. All voting was unanimous.

 

The meeting was called to order by President Charles Anderson and roll call was taken. Ron Pollock made a motion to dispense with reading and approve the minutes of August 9, 1999, September 13, 1999 and October 12, 1999. Motion was seconded and carried unanimously. 

****

 

#699 Mike and Prudence A. Niehaus; Requesting to rezone from R-2 to B-2 on lot #1 in Chapman Subdivision. The property is located in Liberty Township, directly west of 6211 E. State Road 16.

 

President Anderson asked, do we have anyone representing this request?

 

Prudence (Ashley) Niehaus was representing the request.

 

President Anderson asked, do the Commissioners have any questions about this request? Does anyone in the audience have any questions about this request?

 

Ron Orr stated, I live in Shepherd Park Addition in Buffalo. I think that we all think we know what the intent is, the purpose of rezoning this, but I guess that we would like to ask you what your intent is.

 

Prudence Niehaus stated, we would like to open a small used car lot. My husband has previously been doing business with Hart Auto which is also in Buffalo. For personal differences he has

separated from them and we would like to rezone to do just that. By small, I mean no more than probably 10 cars, our yard is not that big so that’s our intentions with the rezoning.

 

Ron Orr asked, so the other two pieces of property the Hart Car Sales and the Hart Repair Shop is family connected?

 

Prudence Niehaus stated, yes, they are my father-in-law and my brother-in-law. The repair business there I believe that he has moved to Pulaski County. He’s opening a junk yard or something there so I don’t think that he does business there. My in-laws, which are in the house farther East, do have a small lot, they are selling their home and the business property with that home so whenever they sell that that will be ended so if there is anything else that I can answer for you I sure will.

 

Ron Orr stated, I live across the street from this. There is a mobile home and there is a row of trees out front, I would like to know where you’re going to display your cars at?

 

Prudence Niehaus stated, our property is two lots, there is lot #1 and #2 and lot #1 is the one that we would like to rezone. It’s on the West side, there’s a couple of trees there and the trees will probably have to go I don’t know as far as the State Highway, we have to get a permit to do the driveway and all of that kind of stuff. If they will need to remove those trees, if they could stay we would like to keep them there. As far as the trees in front of our residence those will not be touched at all.

 

Ron Orr asked, so you will still reside there then?

 

Prudence Niehaus stated, yes.

 

Ron Orr stated, I noticed that before when you had cars for sale over there, to properly display them you basically had to set them out on the highway property.

 

Prudence Niehaus stated, yes, well the state requires that you have an actual parking area and also an office or some such place to conduct your business so we would have to follow the guide lines as far as the State is concerned. They require that you have a parking area big enough to accommodate customers as well as at least 10 cars, so there will be a gravel lot put in. I would have to check with the zoning as far as where exactly I can put it but I’m not sure at this time what the setback requirements and such are as far as business property. I’m not really sure with that but we would have to have the zoning first and then find out from Area Plan where we would have to situate everything.

 

Ron Orr stated, I guess that my concerns are, I have lived there since 1963 and it’s sickening to see what has happened to Liberty Township during those years. We have junk trash everywhere and the two pieces of property that she is talking about has a lot of junk cars. It’s not what I call a car lot. Connected to the back side of my property is Ray Wiegand’s slum area. I have dealt with that for years and I’ll be dang if I want another junk yard across the street from me and this is just my feelings on this whole thing.

 

Prudence Niehaus stated, I think the Area Plan Board did take pictures and we don’t have any junk vehicles in our yard at this time.

 

Ron Orr stated, at this time.

 

Prudence Niehaus stated, the neighbor guy does have a little bit of a mess next to his garage and Joe’s Mobile Home and RV Sales has piles of stuff here and there.

 

Ron Orr stated, the one back property is a total disaster.

 

Prudence Niehaus stated, yes, and we are actually causing the neighbor that resides on the West side of us to clean up so it might be a positive thing. He was kind of upset with us for cleaning up. When we acquired the property there was an old silver, I guess that you would call it, air stream type camper there, and lots of junk hidden in the weeds and stuff and we have taken care of the most of it. Like I said we are causing them to kind of clean up his garage area. I don’t know if they have pictures of our neighbor on the West side.

 

Ron Orr stated, I have pictures that I took as late as this last week the back side of your property is definitely not cleaned up, Exhibit 1& Exhibit 2, I’m sorry I just can’t buy this at all.

 

President Anderson asked, do you want to enter the pictures into the record. You can do that if you want to, but we keep them.

 

Attorney Altman stated, for the record a B-2 zoning does not allow a junkyard.

 

Prudence Niehaus stated, no it does not.

 

Attorney Altman stated, and it does not allow an auto salvage yard, it does not allow either one of those two. Now, I’m not telling you that is the answer to all but that is the situation with those.

 

Jay Clawson stated, with these pictures that you gave us it’s kind of misleading since it shows the house, the lot and the trailer in one picture. This is not one piece of property, it’s actually 2 lots.

 

Director Weaver stated, it’s 2 separate lots.

 

Jay Clawson asked, what is the size of those?

 

Prudence Niehaus stated, they’re 93’ wide. Each lot being on a curve the West side lot is 210’ deep and my residential lot on the far East side I believe it’s on the record that it’s 182’. It’s on a curve so it’s not square.

 

Ron Orr stated, that’s another thing that I was going to bring up is the safety factor. We have a lot of traffic right in that area especially when we use to have the trash trucks coming through. The Wiegand’s area right there, a lot of traffic and a lot of near misses the way it is. If we get additional slow driving and gawking at cars or what ever is just going to create more problems.

 

President Anderson asked, this is on the back side of her lot? Is this the back of your lot?

 

Ron Orr stated, this is an example of the dry lot where they have a car for sale now and it’s sitting on the highway.

 

Jay Clawson asked, in our table of uses we amended, was Monticello the only one that didn’t allow the change on B-2 for no water and sewer lots to be cut down only to a 2,500 square feet lot?

 

Director Weaver stated, yes.

 

Jay Clawson asked, Monticello is the only one that kept that?

 

Director Weaver stated, I believe so.

 

Ron Orr stated, that’s all that I have to say.

 

President Anderson asked, are there any questions from anyone else?

 

Walt Hough stated, I’m the Liberty Township Trustee. One of the questions that I have knowing the other two lots and saying that you might be moving and I noticed that at the old shell station we have cars for sale in front of that and then we have wrecked cars behind that.

 

Prudence Niehaus asked, what’s the old shell station? I don’t know.

 

Walt Hough asked, do you know where Don use to have the old shell station is East where they have the repair shop now? That’s the old shell station.

 

Prudence Niehaus stated, okay.

 

Walt Hough stated, there’s wrecked cars and then you have a nice looking car for sale I guess in front of it. The two questions that I have is what are we going to have over here on this lot say that we do get it taken care of. Then another question that I have like Ron, with the highway right there, with coming from the West to East you have a hill right there and they are going to be coming down there and the question that I have is the traffic coming in and out, what is the requirements of the state compared to what the traffic is going to be coming down from there?

 

Prudence Niehaus stated, the state as far as I know when they send someone out when I do the paperwork for the permit that they would determine whether or not to put a turn lane in there for safety reasons. As far as my brother-in-law’s property is concerned, he has a salvage license and salvage business permit I have no idea myself if he is allowed to have junk vehicles there.

 

Walt Hough asked, the questions that I meant to ask compared to what he has, where would you be getting your cars from? 

 

Prudence Niehaus stated, my husband primarily buys cars from the Indianapolis Car Exchange and also a place called Copart, just auctions.

 

Walt Hough asked, these are going to be cars that are going to be available for sale and not for repair and then sell them?

 

Prudence Niehaus stated, sometimes he does get a car, I can’t say that all of the cars are going to be like that, he plans on putting up a garage so that if he does buy a car that needs a repair it can be put in the garage and repaired and then put out on the lot. We don’t have the intentions of cluttering up our yard and like I said I have tried to clean as best as we can and we ran into winter and we have a young son. My husband was in an accident years ago, he’s unable to work. I brought some medical things but this is the kind of likely hood that he is able to do and this is why we are really trying to do, he really needs to do something. Pretty much, like I said, we have no intentions of putting a bunch of junk cars there because that does not look good to the community obviously. I don’t think that people that would be purchasing cars are going to come somewhere where there’s no access so I don’t think that would be a good idea. That’s not our intentions at all to clutter up the neighborhood. I think that it might be a nice revenue.

 

Ron Orr stated, we have pictures of that other property and you know what that looks like.

 

Attorney Altman stated, B-2 does allow for auto body, painting, repair and auto service and repair. Just for the record so when we’re talking about this you understand.

 

President Anderson stated, they can’t run a junkyard but they can repair them and sell them.

 

Walt Hough stated, like I said, the only thing that concerns me is the type of vehicles that are going to be sold. Also, the requirements for the state because if you don’t’ know that area you really need to go out and look at that area because that area is a very high traffic area. There is a lot of traffic coming in there even though the landfill is now closed. You still have a lot of semis come through there they go straight to Logansport, coming over that hill and down that hill they are moving.

 

President Anderson stated I would imagine that the state would require a deceleration lane.

 

Walt Hough stated, they have to require it because that is 55 m.p.h. right now and when you start getting into Joe’s Mobile Home, correct me if I’m wrong, but when you get down where you live by Shepherd, it goes into a 45 and then a 35, if my memory serves me correctly.

 

Ron Orr stated, it goes down to a 35.

 

Walt Hough stated, so it’s quick and then your there that’s the only thing that concerned me.

 

Prudence Niehaus stated, I agree because there is no warning over the hill because there is a curve there. In fact, we just had our mail box removed by someone right before Christmas that was going to fast. Like I said the man that I spoke with at the State Highway Department did say that would determine the location and determine whether or not they needed a turn lane there.

 

Jay Clawson stated, deceleration and acceleration lanes are usually at the cost of the owner of the property and would we have to, in passing this, set some kind of bond or something that they would have to…

 

Director Weaver stated, I think that the State would regulate all of that.

 

Attorney Altman stated, the State actually regulates it but we can certainly require that that happen by not rezoning the front part of this lot. The front 30’ is what I would guess it would be. Right Don, for a deceleration lane, is that what the State normally requires?

 

Don Ward stated, no, they are not that wide, about 15’.

 

Attorney Altman stated, 15’, okay.

 

Don Ward stated, it’s expensive though.

 

Jay Clawson stated, it’s very expensive when you start putting that in.

 

Attorney Altman stated, I agree.

 

Ron Orr stated, plus that’s a drainage ditch right through there.

 

Jay Clawson stated, they would have to put a pipe in and what like Wal-Mart had to do out here on the North end.

 

Ollie Hickman stated, you were talking about rezoning okay, say that you rezone this lot for a B-2, the guy next door is going to ask for the same thing and he has a bigger lot and he has more junk on there and I think that the junk yard has and I think that what you would be doing is duplicating and then he could rezone to a B-2 and do whatever he wants with it if it goes to that far of depth and then if he wants to repair cars or sell cars then he’s in the same notion, why can’t I sell mine because he has junk cars setting in the back now on that lot and he also has other junk laying out in the front.

 

Ron Orr stated, I just hope that before you gentlemen make a decision on this that you would get up there and look at the situation, we have junk everywhere.

 

President Anderson stated, that’s part of the reason that we get together on Area Plan too is to try and help on that.

 

Ron Orr stated, I supported the zoning when it went in up there and I thought this is the answer but it’s not.

 

President Anderson stated, you can’t correct something overnight. Something that was created in 90 years isn’t going to be corrected right a way.

 

Jay Clawson stated, it’s just like in an R-2, you can have junk in there.

 

Steve Fisher stated, even if it’s rezoned it can still be junky either way.

 

Jay Clawson stated, you said something Jerry, I thought that you had to be in an industrial zoning for painting to be done.

 

Attorney Altman stated, auto body painting.

 

Jay Clawson stated, remember Jim O’Neal’s place up on Dewey Street.

 

Steve Fisher stated, I thought that we rezoned that to industrial because he wanted to do body work.

 

Director Weaver stated, that would have been under the old ordinance I think.

 

President Anderson asked, do we have any other questions?

 

Steve Carter stated, I live at Buffalo and the road that I live on comes out about 100’ to 200’ West of where this intended project is suppose to be. I want to reiterate what everyone has said about the safety factor, this is right, just come out of a curve on the outbound side of Buffalo and it seems like every highway in the world ends up in Buffalo. You have 2 coming in from the South and the East and then one from the West and it’s all condensed down right there. You come across the bridge and you have all kinds of traffic going either East or West. The thing that keeps coming back to me is, I’m on the Advisory Board for Liberty Township and I wasn’t in office 2 days and I get a call from this gentlemen back here he says, what’s going on up there at the end of the road. I asked him what he was talking about and he said that they have an old junk car sitting up there for sale, it’s a eye sore and I said yes and just don’t worry about it. Let the guy sell his car, he can have an occasional sale and said he’s parked out by the highway, I have done the same thing. He gets that sold, next week he has another car out there that’s about the same caliber. I have seen everything up there from old cars that need rebuilding to demolition derbies, good for demolition, to boat trailers to junk boats to everything on that corner.

 

Attorney Altman asked, on this lot?

 

Steve Carter stated, yes and I think that it looks like a little Toto or something. I don’t know if the caliber of equipment is going to improve if this thing goes through but it looks like a bargain basement closeout. They have a car up there right now, it’s a 4 wheel drive or something, I don’t know what it is, it stands about so high. Does anyone have a picture of that?

 

Director Weaver stated, yes, they do.

 

Steve Carter stated, that’s the caliber of things. I don’t know if you have a picture.

 

Attorney Altman stated, that’s exhibit 2.

 

Steve Carter stated, that’s the caliber let’s don’t make a mockery of Liberty Township, we already have enough of it.

 

Prudence Niehaus stated, if I need to I can bring in his business sale records with tire and auto. That’s a personal vehicle that is not something that would be on a lot. It’s quite the unique piece of machinery to say the very least but the majority of the cars that we have sold have been early 90’s. Like I said he had to sell his vehicles and some personal things on his brother or father’s lot that were Hart Auto vehicles at that time. Like I said we have cleaned a lot of stuff out the yard and when we started clearing we found a lot of stuff. He has sold things out of the yard but like I said as far as vehicles sold under the business of Hart Auto, they have mostly been newer cars and they have not been displayed on my property. I can’t do that, the State does not allow you to park cars for sale under a business name in a residential area.

 

Steve Carter asked, I heard a figure a little bit ago, someone said 30’ and someone said no 15’, was that for a deceleration lane?

 

Don Ward stated, yes, 15’ wide.

 

Steve Carter stated, I’m just going by memory, if you go take 15’ more that comes out of the lot ,that cuts 15 more feet out. It’s a postage stamp for a car lot anyway.

 

Don Ward asked, wouldn’t that be on the other side of the road then, won’t that be on the South side of the highway?

 

Steve Carter asked, what’s that the deceleration lane?

 

Don Ward stated, your worst problem is coming from the West so you need your passing lane for left turners.

 

Steve Carter asked, so you would want it on the other side?

 

Don Ward stated, it would be better on the South side.

 

Steve Carter stated, so you’re not talking about deceleration, you’re talking about a….

 

Don Ward stated, a passing lane.

 

Steve Carter stated, the deceleration lane would be on their side.

 

Jay Clawson stated, you would have to have a deceleration lane…

 

Don Ward stated, you would have to have both.

 

Jay Clawson stated, you would have to have both.

 

Steve Carter stated, if you come through that curve and you turn to go down to our place, it seems like you leave the bridge there and it’s a race trying to get out to the stop sign. You always have someone running your butt trying to get around you and about the time that you get straightened up and have to turn you have someone trying to get around you. That’s how close they follow you right there. The landfill is closed but that landfill is going to open again, I think within a year, and if that landfill opens again, we’re going to have all kinds of traffic up there. 

 

Prudence Niehaus stated, I would like the Board to please note that there are several businesses. My residential property and the residential property that is just West of lot #1 that I would like to rezone are the only two residential properties. The Wright’s are the only residential property West and the rest are business zoned. We have Country Custard that is right on the hill, I don’t know exactly what the zoning is on the Linback lot but it has several things in it and I have heard that they are selling it but I don’t know.

 

President Anderson asked, they have business and residential there don’t they?

 

Prudence Niehaus stated, we also have the welding shop and Dick leases the business there also in that area.

 

President Anderson stated, they can’t be zoned residential before the zoning. There wasn’t any zoning until 2-3 years ago so they could be grandfathered in a residential zoning.

 

Prudence Niehaus stated, yes, but at any rate with Joe’s being right on the curve to the East, I have not seen to much of a major problem with the traffic flow. The weekends are the busiest time there and by State law a car lot can not be open on Sunday, which is our busy day of traffic. We would only deal with limited hours on Saturday, so the busiest time of course is when Indiana Beach is open.

 

President Anderson asked, do we have any other questions? Do you have something new?

 

Ron Orr stated, I do have one other thing but this does not have to do with her property.

 

President Anderson stated, if it’s not to do with the zoning in the area…

 

Ron Orr stated, this has to do with the other car lot that is in the family.

 

President Anderson stated, she is not going to be rezoning that at all so we don’t want to get involved with that.

 

Ron Orr stated, I just want to show you.

 

President Anderson asked, does anyone else have any questions?

 

Art Martz asked, I live over on Kiger Drive and I was just wondering, have you done a feasibility study or anything to see if a used car lot would be profitable? Who would your customers be?

 

President Anderson stated, we’re not going to get involved with a feasibility study. What we’re here for is the best use of the land and try to rezone for that.

 

Art Martz stated, I think that the best use for the land is to leave it alone.

 

President Anderson stated, that’s something that we’re going to determine tonight on that but as far as feasibility studies, she does not have to do that to try to rezone it. If you wanted to rezone you wouldn’t want to have to do that either.

 

Art Martz stated, I don’t know but all that I know is we’re not improving the area there. Buffalo is going down hill. You have all of these new double wides that are being put down Kiger Drive, which is going to attract a lot of young people with kids. You’re going to have a lot of young people going down Kiger Drive, going right into the area that they want to build this. I can’t see where you could have a worse place for a car lot.

 

Jody Orr stated, I have the property pretty much right across the street from it. I just put a new home in 2 years ago there and made the property nice. I put a new modular house in that I got from Pinnacle Homes and I would have never put that home in if I knew that we were going to build that business around that area I know Joe’s Mobile Homes is there. I was born and raised in Buffalo and I have lived there all of my life. Two places mainly right there I’m really questioning whether I should have put that house in if we’re going to start car lots. I don’t know how their car lot is going to be I’m just saying that I never thought that I was going to have to put up with business around there. I really don’t have anything to say other than that. I’m not questioning I just don’t think that a car lot is a good thing for there. That’s just my opinion and I’m just here to state my opinion, I don’t think that the car lot is a good thing there. I would not have built there if I knew that business was going to build around there.

 

President Anderson asked, do we have anything else?

 

Ollie Hickman stated, I live on Kiger Drive. Would you tell me how wide did you say that lot is?

 

Prudence Niehaus stated, they are each 93’.

 

Ollie Hickman asked, is that the width?

 

Prudence Niehaus stated, from East to West is 93’.

 

Ollie Hickman asked, how deep did you say it was?

 

Prudence Niehaus stated, on the West side it’s 210’ deep, like I said it’s on a curve and the side that is next to Joe’s Mobile Home is shorter, it’s 180’. Actually on the plat map, on the subdivision, they have a copy of that, they say that it’s 210’ road frontage but I owe tax on 93’ frontage.

 

Ollie Hickman stated, that seems kind of odd because the lot that I bought when Jim Halcome owned all of that farm, he divided it, my lot is 100 yards wide and 225’ to 230’ deep. I don’t have enough room even for the mobile home that I have on it and you’re talking about putting a car dealer up there.

 

President Anderson asked, do the Commissioners have any questions?

 

Ron Pollock stated, she probably couldn’t build a garage there then.

 

President Anderson stated, it would be hard to do.

 

Jay Clawson stated, especially to get any kind of, with a business you have a well and septic. That’s the reason when they drew this up they put 3 acres on a business on a non sewer and water area but we buried that about 2-3 years ago. Front setback with a car lot are you allowed to put cars all of the way up to the State property line or is there a setback from the right-of-way line that they have to maintain for safe ingress and egress or neighbors pulling out of the driveway?

 

Director Weaver stated, that’s not addressed in the Ordinance but we discussed this very same situation on the modulars and we decided that it had the same front setback as a structure, a permanent structure.

 

Jay Clawson asked, what I’m saying not so much building because that’s not addressed how close can they put cars to the road when they have a car lot, is there an enforceable thing that says that they have to be 10’ from the State right-of-way line, can they encroach on the State? How can we enforce to keep them off the State right-of-way in a situation like this?

 

Director Weaver stated, there’s nothing in our ordinance.

 

Don Ward stated, I don’t think that they are allowed to get on the State Highway. Technically, the State Highway doesn’t like for you to put anything on their property.

 

Prudence Niehaus stated, like I said, I think that we would like to keep the trees so if you see the pictures of where the trees are in the front, they are quite a ways from the road.

 

Attorney Altman stated, what we have done to minimize that is we have not rezoned the front so many feet.

 

Don Ward stated, about 50’, we did that at Monon once.

 

Attorney Altman stated, we have basically said that we have amended the rezoning to cut it back 30’ or 50’ so they can’t be out there. So that would be a way that we would set precedence in doing that in the past and they would keep them off of that, just as a thought because I know that we have done that in the past.

 

Don Ward stated, one of the things that I wonder about is, if the State Highway would require a deceleration lane and a passing lane the cost is going to be enormous or whether or now they are going to spend the money to do that. Before we rezone it you should know whether or not you have to do that. If you have to spend a lot of money you probably won’t…

 

Jay Clawson stated, you couldn’t get it done for 25,000 dollars.

 

Don Ward stated, it would be better not to rezone it.

 

President Anderson stated, 25,000 dollars was about 15 years ago.

 

Don Ward stated, that’s my opinion. It should be tabled until you find out whether or not you’re going to have to spend all of that money or whether you don’t have to.

 

President Anderson stated, or if you want to we can go ahead and vote on it tonight.

 

Prudence Niehaus stated, like I said the man that I talked to on the phone, he sent me paperwork and he just said that usually it’s not required and that it shouldn’t be a problem. He couldn’t foresee any turn lanes or anything like that but he couldn’t tell me exactly for sure because it wasn’t rezoned at the time that I spoke with him. Like I said there are a lot of businesses there and no one has deceleration lanes and no one has turning lanes. Joe’s Mobile Home is directly on the curve, they have 18 wheeler semi deliveries several times a week some of which back in so they are blocking the street and I have never seen a problem.

 

Jay Clawson asked, you mean blocking the highway?

 

Prudence Niehaus stated, right, they have to kind of be in the middle of the highway to back in and he has kind of a skinny driveway.

 

Don Ward asked, is that what’s across from you on the South?

 

Prudence Niehaus stated, it’s on the direct East side of me, he’s right next to my residence. Personally have lived there for 4 years and I have not seen an accident anywhere near. As far as the highway guy said, he didn’t see any problems with putting in a culvert and a driveway, is pretty much what they told us that we would do. I don’t see that they would have any room on the South side to do any thing with anyway because Wiegands' property across the street is really close to the highway.

 

Jay Clawson asked, is that Ray Wiegand?

 

Prudence Niehaus stated, yes, and I can’t say that I’m pleased with having him across the street from me either but like I said he has his office 20’ from the street. I personally can’t control how much junk that he has in his yard or my neighbor as far as that.

 

Attorney Altman asked, do you want us to proceed and vote?

 

President Anderson stated, yes.

 

Prudence Niehaus stated, that would be fine.

 

President Anderson asked, are there any other questions? Let’s go ahead and vote.

 

With no further discussion the Board voted.

 

The results of the vote were as follows: 0 affirmative and 7 negative. This will be presented to County Commissioners for their action. 

 

Attorney Altman stated, that meeting will be next Monday, right here at 8:30 a.m.

 

Director Weaver stated, 8:10 a.m.

 

Attorney Altman stated, 8:10 a.m. in the morning, this has no recommendation.

 

President Anderson stated, the Commissioners are the ones that say yes or no.

 

Attorney Altman stated, we recommend.

 

President Anderson stated, so if your interested you should be at that meeting too.

 

Attorney Altman stated, Director Weaver will be there with the file but there will be no other notice. So if you want to be heard be here.

 

An audience member asked, when is that again?

 

Attorney Altman stated, next Monday, which is the 17th. Does anyone have any questions? We have other business.

 

****

 

President Anderson stated, we have amendments.

 

Director Weaver stated, the amendments that I have sent to you, I have changed all of these to the interested parties that shall include but are not limited to, all owners of the adjacent property or on the opposite side of any barrier such as a street, railroad track, easement, ditch, etc according to the last tax assessment role of the premises which is the subject of the hearing. I have changed all of these, this would be for subdivisions, rezoning, variances everything. That’s how I have it worded in here. I did not advertise this so we are not going to take a vote on this tonight, I just changed it so we could discuss it before I do another advertising on it.

 

Jay Clawson asked, it sounds better to me, what does Attorney Altman think? Have you looked at these amendments?

 

Attorney Altman stated, I guess what I feel like on this one here, we were concerned that we were having people that we thought were interested in this but were not getting notice. I think when you add the people, the City’s body that makes the decision on this ahead of time then Monon knows when something is going on up there and Monticello, Brookston, what have you knows. I think that is an excellent thing to do and then we talked about the opposite, a barrier such as a street and I think that I guess you could add river there but I think we would probably not as a barrier. The river is generally broad enough that we don’t think of that as being, but when you have the ditch and the tracks I think that this covers most of the basis that I thought that we were talking about the other day and therefore, I guess that the answer is generally yes. I don’t say that it’s perfect but I think that it’s hitting most of them Jay.

 

Jay Clawson stated, I understand, I just want to make sure that it’s written in the language.

 

Ron Pollock asked, is this a change?

 

Director Weaver stated, yes.

 

Attorney Altman stated, yes, it is a change.

 

Director Weaver stated, right no currently on a rezoning, we don’t do any notification at all so this would change that and variances right now, are at 300’ so it would size that down so it will be more along the lines of what it use to be. Yes, it is a change.

 

Jay Clawson stated, I like the idea that on all, BZA and everything that you’re notifying the cities.

 

Director Weaver stated, yes, we have been doing that for a while.

 

Attorney Altman stated, I really think that is well done.

 

Gary Barbour asked, now we’re talking directly across the street right, like if it’s set up in blocks now your doing adjacent you have added across the street or the ditch or something?

 

Director Weaver stated, yes.

 

Gary Barbour asked, directly across not diagonally?

 

Director Weaver stated, the way that we have done it in the past is we’ve told them to make a complete circle so if the corner touches their corner, you notify them.

 

Don Ward stated, what would be nice is if we had someone put corners up, approximate corners in red, so we can see when we go out there what property they want zoned because it’s like this, it’s a little tough to tell what lot is what. I couldn’t tell for sure what they were doing.

 

Jay Clawson stated, I went pass here too and there’s the sign out front and we didn’t know if that’s the whole entire, that from Joe’s Mobile Home all of the way with the mobile home in it. Where the RV sales are all of the way to this corner post that is here, the old fence post on the corner if that’s it or what exactly it is without having the legal description that’s on this sheet. Like he said, if they had a little flag when they put that from here to here is what they’re wanting to do, it would be nice to know.

 

Director Weaver asked, on the roadside or on all 4 corners?

 

Don Ward stated, the front for sure, that would be a big help.

 

Jay Clawson asked, yes, I don’t know are we allowed to, we can drive by and look at it but are we actually allowed to walk across the property to the back side of the property to look at it, by our law?

 

Attorney Altman stated, I think Director Weaver is clearly authorized to do that, to enforce and I’m not sure if the law is very clear whether you’re actually allowed to. I guess that I would say if someone wants a rezoning they had better let you go there. I really feel like they are consenting to your activity on that.

 

Don Ward stated, I guess that you could notify them, knock on the door, say that you’re going to look.

 

Attorney Altman stated, I would certainly knock on the door if I could.

 

Don Ward stated, if you’re going to walk all over their property.

 

Attorney Altman stated, mainly because they will have the answer to that question.

 

Gary Barbour stated, flags from the surveyor, they throw those little red flags.

 

Director Weaver stated, only if they stake something though I think they don’t always put up flags.

 

Steve Fisher stated, you could have those on hand, the ones that he has and then just give them to them.

 

Jay Clawson asked, is there any other business?

 

Director Weaver stated, no, if this is satisfactory I will advertise this for a vote for the next meeting. I do have one other thing, I was approached, the Rotary wants to put up signs “Welcome to Monticello”, I wasn’t sure on this if this is something that we would require a permit to be issued for. It’s a free will thing, they are doing it on their own as a donation to the city. I do have a picture of what the signs are going to look like, it’s going to be nice.

 

President Anderson stated, they should probably have a permit but I don’t know if we have to charge them for the permit.

 

Director Weaver stated, we charge for all permits. There are no permits that we don’t charge for. Even the county pays for permits. I know that the small ones that they have put up in the past have not had permits but this is a 4’ x 8’ sign.

 

Jay Clawson asked, where are they putting this sign at?

 

Director Weaver stated, I don’t have the exact location at this time they are going to do 2 or 3 of them though, around the city.

 

Scott Kyburz asked, city limits?

 

Director Weaver stated, probably at the edge of the city limits. My opinion was yes, but I wanted the Board’s opinion because of the size.

 

Steve Fisher asked, what is the price of a permit? It’s not much.

 

Director Weaver stated, 15 dollars per sign.

 

President Anderson asked, is that 45 or 60 dollars?

 

Director Weaver stated, yes.

 

Jay Clawson stated, to alleviate problems of it being in certain right of ways…

 

Director Weaver stated, that was my concern.

 

Jay Clawson stated, or problems of them setting to close to a sewer line.

 

Director Weaver stated, visibility.

 

Jay Clawson stated, maybe it would be best if they did get some kind of a permit or at least have someone look at it.

 

Director Weaver stated, that was my thought, I just wanted the Board’s opinion.

 

President Anderson stated, they should get a permit.

 

Director Weaver stated, that’s all that I have. 

****

 

Jay Clawson made a motion to adjourn.

 

Ray Butz seconded the motion.

 

****

 

The meeting adjourned.

 

Respectfully submitted,

 

 

 

 

Ray Butz, Secretary

White County Area Plan Commission

 

 

 

 

 

 

Diann Weaver, Director

White County Area Plan Commission