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The White County Board of Zoning Appeals met on Thursday, January 17, 2002 at 7:30 p.m. in the Commissioners’ Meeting Room, Second Floor, County Building, Monticello, Indiana.

Members attending were Gary Barbour, David Scott, Carol Stradling and Jerry Thompson. Also attending were Attorney Jerry Altman and Director Diann Weaver.

Visitors attending were: Kim Powers, Perry Powers, Margaret Powers, Betty Ferdinand, Ray Ferdinand, Randy Meyer, Dan Banes, Rob Strasser, David Uttermohlen, R.L. Uttermohlen, Jay Clawson, Karen Yoder, Randy Yoder, Darrell Brown, Beth Brown and Dwight E. Vigus.

The meeting was called to order by President Jerry Thompson and roll call was taken.

Attorney Altman conducted the election of President. Carol Stradling motioned that Jerry Thompson remains President with Gary Barbour seconding the motion. President Thompson continued the election of officers. President Thompson motioned Carol Stradling as Vice-President with Gary Barbour seconding the motion. Dave Scott motioned Gary Barbour as Secretary with President Thompson seconding the motion. Jerry Altman will remain as attorney. All Voting was unanimous.

Dave Scott made a motion to dispense with reading and approve the minutes of the October 18, 2001 meeting subject to the corrections. Motion was seconded by Gary Barbour and carried unanimously.

David Scott made a motion to dispense with reading and approve the minutes of the November 15, 2001 meeting subject to the corrections. Motion was seconded by Gary Barbour and carried unanimously.

Carol Stradling made a motion to dispense with reading and approve the minutes of the December 20, 2001 meeting subject to the changes Attorney Altman made on the findings of fact. Motion was seconded by David Scott and carried unanimously.

Attorney Altman swore in all Board members and audience members

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#2074 Randall A. & Karen K. Yoder; Requesting a 22’ front setback variance to bring the existing building into compliance with the White County Zoning Ordinance on the proposed lot #1 in Yoder Subdivision. The property is located in the Town of Brookston at 206 E. Third Street.


President Thompson asked, do we have anyone representing this request?

Karen Yoder was present to represent this request.

President Thompson asked, do you have anything additional to present to the Board tonight?

Karen Yoder stated, the building is existing and we’re just trying to protect our selves down the road if it were to blow down and just bring it up to date. We have been here every other meeting.

Director Weaver stated, in the information that we have given to the Board members tonight if you will notice with your pictures there is a copy of the minutes from the Town Board meeting on December the 12th. They are giving their approval for this building to continue to encroach on the alleyway.

Karen Yoder stated, that’s actually in addition to what we’re having our variance. They said encroachment, they gave us rights to and in addition to that we want to just get the variance to where we can keep our front where it’s at if we were to tear it down or if it blew down.

Carol Stradling asked, the variance will travel with the property so even if, special exception does not?

Attorney Altman stated, a special exception would too. If you have specific personal commitments it may not but…

Carol Stradling stated, let me rephrase that, I guess I thought that a variance, never mind.

Attorney Altman asked, this would be, as I understand there is no change in this structure, when was the last change in the structure?

Karen Yoder stated, 1940.

Randy Yoder stated, 1940.

Attorney Altman stated, I understand but, as it…

Randy Yoder stated, it’s the same structure that is there.

Attorney Altman stated, essentially the same structure, it’s just out of compliance with the Ordinance.

Randy Yoder stated, right.

President Thompson asked, any response from anyone?

Director Weaver stated, no, we have not received anything.

President Thompson asked, does anyone here care to address the variance either for or against tonight?

Rob Strasser asked, if something were…

President Thompson asked, your name?

Attorney Altman asked, your name?

Rob Strasser stated, Rob Strasser.

President Thompson asked, and you’re tied to the property?

Rob Strasser stated, yes, I have a property a half of a block away.

President Thompson asked, to what direction sir?

Rob Strasser stated, 200 East Third.

President Thompson stated, okay, go ahead sir.

Rob Strasser asked, now, this variance that they are wanting, I mean is this something if they want to put something else on that, it would have to, if they tear this down there would have to be another variance?

Attorney Altman stated, it is for the present structure and to replace the present structure if it were destroyed.

Rob Strasser stated, if it blew down.

Attorney Altman stated, that would be the benefit of being in compliance.

Rob Strasser asked, but, if they tore it down and they wanted to put a structure up…

Attorney Altman stated, if it were the same type structure essentially the same structure it would be allowed to put back up. If it’s larger, it would need another variance, if it’s going to be larger or significantly different.

President Thompson asked, any comments or discussion from the Board?

Attorney Altman asked, the building and the use have been the same over the last 30 years essentially?

Karen Yoder stated, yes, right now, we don’t really have anything in it, it’s just the building, it’s not a business in it right now.

Carol Stradling asked, what are your plans for the building?

Karen Yoder stated, it’s got a lot of repair work that needs to be done we’re going to put the roof back on it, tear down an old bin that’s there, basically clean it up. The backside of the building is in…

Randy Yoder stated, it use to be an old feed mill, it’s been vacant for 20 years, it’s like they just went out of business and left it so the walls in the front are very solid. It’s a masonry type building, everything that they added to it is either rotten or gone. So what we have planned to do is take off all of the roof, put new trusses and roof system back across it and enclose it, then go from there. It will either be a warehouse or whatever we can rent it out for or whatever it might be but the building will still be the same, we just want to make it useful again.

President Thompson asked, anyone else?

Randy Yoder stated, it’s an eyesore the way that it is sitting there, it’s been that way for 20 years or so.

President Thompson asked, Director Weaver, do you have anything else?

Director Weaver stated, no.

President Thompson asked, if there is not other discussion, are we ready to vote?

With no further discussion the Board voted.

The Board finds the following:

1. That the building site is currently zoned B-2, General Business.


2. That the lot is a proposed lot on a subdivision of land as provided by the White County Subdivision Ordinance.

3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.

4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.

5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.

6. That the request is for a 22’ front setback variance to bring the existing building into compliance with the White County Zoning Ordinance on Lot 1 in the proposed Yoder Subdivision, Town of Brookston, White County, Indiana.

COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located in the Town of Brookston at 206 E. Third Street.

7. That the variance herein authorized and granted is not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make typical or recurrent the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said condition or situation of the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variance is based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variance under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.

The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 4 affirmative and 0 negative.

Attorney Altman stated, you need to, you may need a building permit before you do anything beyond that giving the plans that you have.

Karen Yoder asked, to tear down?

Attorney Altman stated, you probably have to check with the building department on that but, your variance was granted.

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#2075 Uttermohlen Properties, LLC; Requesting a 59,425 square feet space variance and a 17’ front setback variance for 24 apartments on 2.492 acres and the South end of lot #14 in J.C. Reynolds 4th Addition. The property is located in the City of Monticello off of North Main Street and Hanawalt Street.

President Thompson asked, do we have anyone representing this request?

David Uttermohlen was present to represent this request.

President Thompson stated, just a moment please, he was late in attendance, do you want to address him.

Attorney Altman asked, are you going to give testimony?

David Uttermohlen stated, yes.

Attorney Altman stated, let me swear you in please David.

David Uttermohlen stated, okay.

Attorney Altman stated, will you please stand and raise your right hand, do you solemnly swear that the testimony that you will give this evening will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but, the truth so help you God?

David Uttermohlen stated, I do.

Attorney Altman stated, thank you, you may proceed.

President Thompson asked, do you have anything to present other than what I read to the Board here tonight?

David Uttermohlen stated, yes, today we met with the City Council, several members of the City Council and the Mayor and with the City Attorney and one of the issues that came up was the designation of the improvements to that alley between and unfortunately the, I think that the packets that you got did not have, did not show the entire alley so if you would mind…

President Thompson stated, let our attorney look at that first.

David Uttermohlen stated, this is an extension, this is just simply a larger…

President Thompson asked, do you have copies for everyone?

David Uttermohlen stated, unfortunately, I couldn’t get the copier to work fast enough to get back here.

Director Weaver stated, I do believe that the Board does have copies.

President Thompson stated, okay.

Attorney Altman stated, I think that we have a smaller version of that.

David Uttermohlen stated, yes, when we originally proposed this development about almost 2 years ago, we originally thought that it would fall under the Planned Unit Development Ordinance of the Area Planning Board. When we went to the Monticello City Council to ask if they would have an objection to having a 24’ wide street, accept it as a city street which is what they, they said that they didn’t and we have a copy of the minutes in your packet, we thought that we would be going before the Area Plan Board. It turns out that since this lot is already a city lot and is already zoned for R-3 we will not go before the Area Planning Board, we will in fact be in front of the Zoning Board. We proposed at that time that we wrote out this packet to have a space variation and a setback variation. We will request a space variation but, our setback variation is going to be a little bit different. We will actually need to request a variation, variance for the 50’ on the street requirement. If you look at the packet that you have, you will see that there is a long rather narrow road that goes between some buildings…

President Thompson asked, would you point that out to the Board just so there is no question?

David Uttermohlen stated, sure, if you look here on this map, this is the road, proposed development which is the 2.49 something acres. We’re going to put 24 units there and we are going to request a variance on the square footage requirement okay. If you see the access road that runs between the two buildings on the, on the left as I’m standing here looking at the left-hand side okay. What we will have to do, we talked to Director Weaver and we talked to the City and one of the problems that we will have is that we will make the two lots, if we make this a street the lots on either side of that access road will become non-compliant. This would cause an economic hardship to the individuals who own those two lots so we don’t want to do that. What we would like to do instead is put in a private drive and the problem is this lot is essentially landlocked. There is an 11’ wide alley, that runs from Main Street to the property line which you can see where an 11’ wide alley we will augment with a 13’ wide strip off of Bill Deibel’s property and we have already have an agreement to purchase that strip. So we will have a 24’ wide access from Main Street to the property but, it’s only 24’ and it’s not a 50’ wide easement. So we are in, so tonight what we would like for you to do is we’re asking the Board to in essence to get feedback from the Board as to whether or not this is feasible. If it is feasible what you would like to see when we submit for the next meeting, our official request for this variance since we have not had time to do the public notice and everything else we won’t. We recognize that we won’t get a variance tonight and the other thing that we can get tonight is the square footage per unit.

President Thompson stated, okay.

Attorney Altman stated, okay, I have several things that I have ticked off that we generally require with matters like this and let me throw them out for the Board to consider and for their, to give to the Uttermohlen, about your desires that you want. Obviously, we have, generally have sidewalks, part of the matters like this, part of the plans. You have already address my second matter would be the street or whatever you put through there would make a variance on both sides of it and because of that, you do need to have that addressed by a request of some sort. It’s hard to know exactly what you are going need because, you don’t exactly have the specific plans before us but, it appeared to me that you will need some sort of a variance for both tracts to the North and South of your access through there.

David Uttermohlen stated, may I clarify that?

Attorney Altman stated, well, if you take 12’ off of the North side there of the 11’ alley that puts it too close to the Deibel property and that creates a variance, a nonconforming variance.

David Uttermohlen stated, the Deibel property is zoned for I think, B-2 and the side lot clearance on B-2 is 0’ so that would not make that property nonconforming, at least not on that if I’m remembering correctly. I see Director Weaver is dotting for regulations so she will correct me, if I’m right.

Attorney Altman stated, Director Weaver and I have talked about that and that’s why I brought it up, that we understood that it was, if it isn’t then that goes out.

David Uttermohlen asked, I’m sorry you understand that it would be nonconforming?

Director Weaver stated, a B-2 has a 0’ side yard unless it is adjoining an “R” district so it would still have the 8’ side.

David Uttermohlen stated, so if it’s adjoining the R-3 in the back…

Attorney Altman stated, it would still be…

Director Weaver stated, it’s adjoining an R-2 on the South.

Attorney Altman stated, so it would have the 8’ and that would need a variance is what it really, to be allowed. One thing that I would really like to have and to is a look at the abstract or supporting documents about the status of the dedicated and the private access through there that you’re talking about, just to see what specific status is. As a lawyer, I just need to look at that okay so, if you could do that, that would be helpful.

David Uttermohlen stated, again if I might as a clarifying question.

Attorney Altman stated, yes, you bet.

David Uttermohlen stated, you would be looking for our proposed deed restriction for the added property.

Attorney Altman stated, and obviously, I presume the levied alley is dedicated somewhere and I would like to just see that in an abstract or something like that and you’re agreement to buy the other 12’, 13’ that’s understood, I understand that, I don’t need to see that. You have told me what the status of that is, I just want to find, the other thing would be the specks on the streets, curbs and gutters, specks on the sidewalks, sewer, water and drainage plans and retention ponds. If they’re envisioned in this and obviously, I would gather that the city has capacity to service this operation so those things we generally have presented to us okay in the way of plans so those we would like to have next month.

David Uttermohlen stated, okay.

Attorney Altman stated, I would gladly give you a written list of this.

David Uttermohlen stated, I would appreciate that.

Attorney Altman stated, yes.

David Uttermohlen stated, and if I might contact you at your office…

Attorney Altman stated, you bet, no problem.

David Uttermohlen stated, get some additional detail, that would be very helpful.

Attorney Altman stated, you bet.

Carol Stradling stated, Mr. Uttermohlen, why is this alleyway off of St. Mary’s adjoining the cemetery, is it to narrow to…

David Uttermohlen stated, the cemetery has an iron clad deed restriction. You are not allowed to do anything to the cemetery property by it’s deed and the other option would be we would have to purchase a right-of-way off of the 6 or 7 lots there. The problem with that is, that would make some of the buildings on those lots nonconforming the first two lots are duplexes and come pretty close to the alley. So we’re kind of, you know if we’re going to develop this lot there is just not many ways in there. The sense, well I understand the need for a more formal presentation and as I said…

Attorney Altman stated, just more detail, more details.

David Uttermohlen stated, more detail I understand. Is there any fundamental reason why you would not be willing to grant the variance for that width of the street.

President Thompson stated, let's hear, I’m sorry, go ahead.

David Scott asked, what is on the South of that street, what is South the street there?

David Uttermohlen asked, South of?

Director Weaver asked, of the alley?

David Scott stated, yes.

An audience member stated, a house.

David Uttermohlen stated, that is Mr. Powers’ house.

Pretty Powers stated, that’s my house, I’m Mr. Powers.

David Scott asked, and to the North of that is what?

David Uttermohlen stated, is an office building.

Director Weaver stated, and an apartment.

David Uttermohlen stated, and an apartment.

David Scott stated, and apartment.

David Uttermohlen stated, well the zoning, it’s zoned for business.

David Scott asked, and how far off of, back of the street would these buildings be then?

David Uttermohlen stated, well, it wouldn’t be a street and it would be a drive. The building would be about 3.5’ from the curb on 24’ wide easement and we were going on the assumption of a 0’ clearance would be appropriate if an 8’ clearance is necessary, we don’t have the room.

David Scott asked, what about snow removal and things like that, are you going to be pushing the snow up on these building?

David Uttermohlen stated, the plans indicate that we’ll have curbs and our objective would be to the city alley exists there and they plow the alley. So I’m assuming that we won’t create that much more difficulty in terms of snow removal and what additional difficulty that we would create, we would mitigate in some way probably by pushing the snow back further or having it removed. So far this winter, it has not been a big problem but, I know that some winters it could be a big problem.

Attorney Altman asked, so this would be your association or would that be the city removing the snow?

David Uttermohlen stated, we, what we would have is a private drive and we would have the city’s, a city easement to use their alley to incorporate into our private drive. The specific relationship, of the reasons why I thought that it would be easier to make it a street was just to avoid that kind of, there is a pot hole in the middle, you fill one half and I’ll fill the other half, that’s really why I wanted it a street but, again the street would cause problems. So if we would go with a drive, we would work out some kind of an arrangement with the city in terms of who is responsible for what in terms of snow removal and access.

David Scott stated, maybe it’s not an issue to either one of the property owner, I’m not sure that I would want traffic 3’ from my house.

Perry Powers stated, my name is Perry Powers…

President Thompson stated, just a second please…

Attorney Altman stated, you will get a chance to talk okay.

President Thompson asked, everyone will have an opportunity. Would you like to answer to his concern?

David Uttermohlen stated, well, the concern, there is current, it doesn’t really change the status because there is already an alley and there is already traffic, so there is no change in use. There will probably be somewhat higher traffic but, we’re talking about a senior housing complex so we don’t anticipate much in the way of, much additional load. In fact, one of the things that is typical for this type of housing you will notice in the center of the plot plan there is a clubhouse. That will be probably where most of the people go and other than shopping trips etcetera I don’t think that we’re going to have a huge amount additional traffic.

David Scott stated, there is a little bit of a difference between an alley and it looks like there is several housing, there is going to be several people living back there…

David Uttermohlen stated, well there will be 24 units.

David Scott stated, it seems to me we’re talking about more, I’m not trying to stein your project I just, doesn’t look like a very good way to go about it for, to get in there, maybe there is no other way.

President Thompson asked, Carol do you have anything on this? Have you had any response from anyone?

Director Weaver stated, we had in the file we just received before the meeting we received a letter from the Powers Family and we also have a petition from surrounding property owners.

Attorney Altman asked, do they want it read?

Director Weaver stated, I believe that they would like it read into the record.

Attorney Altman asked, okay, the first one, dated January 17, 2002 from Perry Powers was read out loud to the Board members and the audience members. The petition from Kathy Hayden, Robert P. Priest, Joyce C. Kusley, Trina A. Priest and Eric W. Connell was read out loud to the Board members and the audience members. Is there anything else in the record I should be reading?

Director Weaver stated, no.

Attorney Altman stated, okay.

President Thompson asked, is there anyone else here that would care to address the variance here tonight either for or against?

Perry Powers stated, the correct address, you read it wrong, the correct address is 621 N. Main Street.

Attorney Altman stated, that is the way that it was in there, I’m sorry I read it wrong.

Perry Powers stated, that’s all right, I just wanted to make sure that we got that clarified that it was 621. I have lived at that house for 13 years now. It has always been an alleyway. We really don’t have a lot of traffic there. When the radio station was in, traffic increased someone backing out of there hit the corner of my house, there was nothing that I could do about it because I wasn’t home and didn’t see it. Okay, you change that into a roadway, it takes my property value to nothing, anything happens to our house, I can’t build. I can not rebuild there unless I’m going to make a 20’ wide house there is no way that I can rebuild there.

President Thompson stated, sir, we have this survey, where are you in correspondence to this?

Perry Powers stated, I’m located right here on the South side.

President Thompson stated, okay.

Perry Powers stated, okay, they didn’t, what this doesn’t show that there is another garage a little bit further back on Deibel's property. It doesn’t show that building, I don’t know why it was not put on there but there is another building there that exists now. So I’m against this because of what it’s going to do to the value of my property we will have no resale value once they put, if they put a street in there. If they widen the road a little bit for the traffic, you have 24 apartments, you have a possibility of probably at least increasing the traffic by 55 to 75 percent let alone ambulance runs if they have to go back there for any reason. It will be a general nuisance to me with it being there.

President Thompson asked, did you mention Mr. Uttermohlen that you went to the city?

David Uttermohlen stated, yes.

President Thompson asked, you spoke with the city about this?

David Uttermohlen stated, that’s correct.

President Thompson asked, and their response was, is there anyone here from the city that would care to respond?

David Uttermohlen stated, I’m sure that Mr. Clawson could address any issue that you might have for what we have presented. If I might…

Jay Clawson stated, I would have to, I didn’t think that I was going to give any testimony so I didn’t stand up and do that.

President Thompson asked, do you care to?

Jay Clawson stated, I don’t care.

President Thompson stated, okay.

Attorney Altman asked, do you solemnly swear the testimony that you are about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but, the truth so help you God?

Jay Clawson stated, I do.

Attorney Altman stated, I do.

President Thompson stated, name please, for the record.

Jay Clawson stated, my name is Jay Clawson and Mr. Uttermohlen did come before the City Council and asked about the use of the road. He stated at the time that it was going to be of the width and to the specifications that need, the City Street, what the Street Department asked at that time. At the time he stated to us that Mr. Powers was in okay with this project because we asked and then he brought Mr. Deibel and Mr. Deibel said he was willing to sell him certain property. At the time I thought that we were going to have this at Area Plan to be able to go over as being a P.U.D. project and that we would be able to make sure that everything was okay before it went any further. He was just coming as a preliminary first step, can we have a way into this project and that’s more or less what we said is if you can get this going we will let you use this if the street meets our specks. By adding this we found that it also makes two nonconforming uses of the two properties beside by doing this. It would have to be either ironed out either you would have to before the project is done have 2 variance okayed, Mr. Powers and Deibel's property before this could go on. This is a legal thing that Attorney Altman would have to be done by us enacting this it would have to be okay either way. I mean if Mr. Powers has a problem with it we might not be able to do this legally is what I’m saying. Are there any other questions? I mean it was kind of an informal request a preliminary thing because he’s trying to get, he did not have any specifications on how streets were going in a subdivision or how lots, it’s not lots, it’s one lot but, how the apartments were laid out or anything.

Attorney Altman asked, you didn’t see this sort of layout, set out?

Jay Clawson stated, I don’t remember seeing it exactly. It wasn’t any…

David Uttermohlen stated, it was not available at the time of the City Council…

Jay Clawson stated, right…

David Uttermohlen stated, the City Council passed it.

Attorney Altman asked, so you were basically on the concept and everyone…

Jay Clawson stated, right…

David Uttermohlen stated, one second, I think that you did get a copy of it but, let me check my records.

Jay Clawson stated, I’m not sure but, at the first it was more of a conceptual thing, he was trying to acquire financing. This was one of the things that hinged on them getting financing was having, he wanted to make sure that they had a way in before he went any farther, that was the way that I took the project. He was going to come back and I thought through Area Plan and everything that we would be able to make sure that the project moved along in compliance. We just wanted to get him there so that he could make his application for grants or whatever he was getting.

Attorney Altman stated, so that he could use the alley?

Jay Clawson stated, right and we thought that everyone was in favor, going at the meeting we thought that the neighbors were in favor at the time but, now you guys have information in front of you more than what we had.

Attorney Altman stated, and it’s very clear in your minutes it was a P.U.D. that you were looking at?

Jay Clawson stated, yes, that’s what we were looking at so we thought that it was a preliminary thing and there was going to be a lot more meetings before anything went any farther.

President Thompson stated, yes, we have someone back here.

Ray Ferdinand stated, first of all Bill Deibel's property is zoned B-2, 30’ in from the road, R-2 to the house then B-2 again I don’t know exactly how many feet back and then it goes residential, or business again. There are two different zonings in there, one is for the signage aspect of it that he couldn’t put a sign within 30’ of the road. That is all B-2, then went R-2 up to the house and then through the house and on the other side it went R-2 back so many feet and then B-2. I may be wrong on those two whichever way but many years ago I looked that up.

President Thompson asked, Ray, where are you in relationship to the property here?

Ray Ferdinand stated, my son-in-law.

President Thompson asked, and he is?

Ray Ferdinand stated, Perry Powers.

Attorney Altman stated, Mr. Powers.

Jay Clawson stated, probably one of the crazy ways that it was done was T and L Sharpening started out there years ago. Maybe on the first request the pole building that he was saying wasn’t shown behind they use to run a small well T and L Sharpening is down on Airport Road now, that’s where they started out years ago and that’s probably why it was zoned a lot of that.

Attorney Altman stated, it’s set out in the pictures what that is and we do need that sort of detail put on your next presentation.

David Uttermohlen stated, I would certainly be happy to give it.

Attorney Altman stated, I know that I’m just trying to give you a good shopping list it isn’t that you’re not it’s just so that when you come back you will have it all on there.

David Uttermohlen stated, I’ finding out all kinds of new things as we go through this project.

Carol Stradling asked, is there anyway that access could be between these two properties?

David Uttermohlen stated, no that’s Mr. Deibel's property and we have offered to purchase real-estate from him and he was not…

Carol Stradling asked, this is?

David Uttermohlen stated, yes, both of those lots are his.

Carol Stradling stated, because, I thought that this was his…

David Uttermohlen stated, which one am I looking at, oh I’m sorry, I have the wrong road, this is Beach Road, that’s the church that owns that, this is Rice’s I believe that both of these are owned by, no there's the church and then there is an individual there. There is a large ravine that runs right, if you see on the contour map…

Carol Stradling stated, yes, I didn’t know how that…

David Uttermohlen stated, that’s a huge ravine, and short of a bridge road and a lot of fill there is no way.

Attorney Altman stated, I remember the last time Mr. Uttermohlen was in front of the Area Plan, it was documented that was a large ravine.

David Uttermohlen stated, so we don’t have any access there, Mr. Deibel was not wanting to split his property up because it’s obviously worth a lot more…

Carol Stradling stated, he’s right here…

David Uttermohlen stated, his is right there so obviously worth a lot more with continuous frontage he was willing to grant us an access.

Carol Stradling asked, how about this one here?

David Uttermohlen stated, well, that’s the Welfare Office is there and that is, we have discussed that with them but, it’s very difficult, that’s one of those things it’s sort of doable but, is not, would require a lot more money on our part.

Carol Stradling asked, isn’t this an access road back to…

David Uttermohlen stated, it’s an access road back, that is a private drive back to the Welfare Office and what we would have is a situation where we were using a private drive to our own private drive.

Carol Stradling stated, you would have more, there is more room between there than there is here.

David Uttermohlen stated, true, there is a lot more street to put in…

Carol Stradling stated, true.

David Uttermohlen stated, complications to put in so we thought that the easiest thing is to follow the alley which as I said the City granted us permission to use so I mean I’m, we’re trying to get this together and take a shot at it.

President Thompson asked, okay, Dave do you have a question?

David Scott asked, I was going to ask him the same thing basically, if there was any other way that he can get through there, other possibilities as far as getting to the property?

Attorney Altman stated, Dave, back in 1990 they were looking at the property, Carol was talking about the Welfare Department that is up North here. Do you understand where that is, it’s basically a comparability narrow strip of ground that goes to Main Street. I’m looking at it like if you’re looking at it, it goes right towards the “A” and the “I” and Main Street, that is an access. They did talk at that time about this alley but, I don’t think that they thought that there was any other reasonable potential access to this property because as they just indicated their other way to go is a ravine that is very, very improbable to get through.

David Scott asked, you talking about a road to St. Mary’s Avenue, where the ravine is or am I looking at…

Attorney Altman stated, no, I think that it’s to the North.

Carol Stradling stated, the ravine is here…

Attorney Altman stated, go North to go North back in there and it is hard to do and it’s pretty unlikely.

David Uttermohlen stated, I think that it would fall under the undue hardship provision of the zoning laws.

President Thompson stated, we had someone else that had their hand up.

Dwight Vigus stated, I own property next to this and I’m very concerned…

Attorney Altman asked, where Mr. Vigus, which property?

President Thompson asked, where in relationship to this.

Dwight Vigus stated, to the North and East there. if I might point out on your sheet here…

Attorney Altman stated, please do, okay.

President Thompson stated, okay.

Dwight Vigus stated, I’m very concerned with the surface water I have a lot of trouble with water back there and I know with all of this water from the parking lot and these roofs, that all comes back out on me, I’m going to be drowned.

President Thompson asked, do you care to address that Mr. Uttermohlen?

David Uttermohlen stated, as you recall, we had a conversation about that and the thing that I, one of the things that we agreed to, there was two things that we agreed to one was that we would cover the concrete fill that was exposed which currently faces your yard. The second thing that we agreed to that we would repair and enhance the existing impoundment pond that is now receiving the run off from the church and all of the other properties up and down that ravine. We would improve it currently that impounded pond dam according to Mr. Vigus has some rather coarse fill. I believe he mentioned old cars and old refrigerators as part of it and that allows the water to seep under the dam and exit in his yard. Then what I had agreed to at the time was that we would take, strip the face of the dam and there is a gully that runs on one side of the dam. We would fill in the gully we would raise the dam and we would put an impervious material in the dam on the backside of the dam to prevent water seepage. We would have, giving the way that the, as deep and wide as that ravine is we would probably be able to impound a good part of Lake Freeman in there when we’re done. It would be more than enough to handle any run off, any additional run off that we would generate as a result of covering the areas of the lot.

Attorney Altman stated, now Mr. Uttermohlen, that would be exactly the sort of detail in the way of drawings that we would like to have brought back to us to the next meeting. So that we can see that and the neighbors can see that and know that his concerns are taken care of…

David Uttermohlen stated, certainly.

Attorney Altman stated, and that would be very helpful if you have that.

Carol Stradling asked, is that what this is? What drawing do we have here?

David Uttermohlen stated, the purpose of including that drawing was to show that the space variance has been granted at a much lower level.

Carol Stradling stated, it didn’t look like your property.

David Uttermohlen stated, no it’s not and it confused my father when I put it in there too.

Attorney Altman asked, so these are of what?

David Uttermohlen stated, that was just simply an exhibit to say that this, that the request for space has been granted before. I believe that the Ordinance states that if you in essence if you have done it before you can do it again but that’s the sole purpose of that application.

President Thompson stated, okay, I have questions myself. On this one document that we received as far as the names here that are opposed to it. Are there, is Kathy Hayden present? The Priest’s? The Connell’s and the, Kusley?

Attorney Altman asked, do you know where those folks live?

Perry Power stated, certainly, all of them are on the 600 block of North Main Street. They are, Joyce is my next door neighbor…

President Thompson asked, would you come forward and point that out to me?

Perry Powers stated, yes.

President Thompson stated, when I have had people concerned I want to know where they are at.

Perry Powers stated, Joyce is like 16’ from my house right here…

Attorney Altman asked, so it would be right in…

Carol Stradling asked, South, would that be South of you?

Perry Powers stated, yes, South of me. That would be Joyce, Connells live right next door to her…

Attorney Altman stated, going further South.

Perry Powers stated, further South and then right next to them is the Priest’s residence further South and then there is an alleyway and on the other side of the alleyway is the Hayden’s.

Attorney Altman stated, going South.

Perry Powers stated, going South, they are right in a row.

Attorney Altman stated, we’re looking at the staff report, city map showing houses.

Jay Clawson stated, this property will have to adhere to the Drainage Ordinance for, all of that will have to go through, they will have to approve it at the time?

Director Weaver stated, yes, I was going to bring that up. Before a permit can be issued for the project, it’s approved through this process, it would have to go in front of the Drainage Board.

David Uttermohlen stated, right, my understanding was after the variance, we can’t pull a permit to build until we have had the drainage report filed but, I thought that the variance process was a separate process, is that correct, okay.

President Thompson asked, anyone else care to address the variance this evening?

Kim Powers asked, something was mentioned about sidewalks if it was made a road. I just wanted to know how that would work or if it has to be curbed because that would make getting into our parking area impossible, the curb so we just wanted to know.

David Uttermohlen stated, if I might, before we took this to City Council back in August, I believe it was, I talked to Mr. Powers concerning his, and any concerns that he might have. At the time we walked his property line and he said that he was concerned with parking. If you will notice on that plot plan, there is a little mark that says additional parking, new parking and the agreement that we came to. We put that new parking in so that he would have as he mentioned it’s kind of tight so he would have extra place to put his vehicles off of the street we also discussed quite thoroughly what areas he wanted curbs on. I believe Mr. Powers expressed at the time that he has a problem with drainage in his basement with water coming into the basement. One of the things that he felt that this would enhance is a reduction of the water flow into his basement. If we put in curbs because right now, the alley also has a parking lot next to it and all of that water runs off of the parking lot and the alley into his yard and therefore into his basement. So we promised that we would put in curbs and you will see the curbs noted on the street, from the street back to the back corner of his house. From the back corner of his house to the back corner of his garage which, is the second building on that street is essentially all driveway and at the time I explained to him that, that would be a, that we would put in a swale an asphalt swale. So that the water would be channeled down away from his property and away from his house and would not limit his access to his garage. Nor to the little parking area that he has between his house and his garage nor to the new parking area that we agreed to put past his garage. Is that an accurate characterization of our conversation?

Perry Powers stated, somewhat accurate.

David Uttermohlen stated, okay, if I’ve made any mistakes, please correct me.

Perry Powers stated, I never did say that I agreed to this and as far as the curbs went and my parking, new parking area, the new parking area that I was talking about. If you will look at right at the end of our, the South side, the North side where our garage is. What I was talking about was just leaving that in concrete because I plan to do that anyway, that’s all that I was talking about, not taking all of the area behind my garage because I do have trees back there.

David Uttermohlen stated, that’s fine.

Perry Powers stated, and as far as the curb goes and the flooding, underneath that alley is the storm drain. I don’t know if anyone is aware of it, it was put in by Mr. Pool, Senior before he died, it was one of the last things that he did and when he put it in, it causes my basement to flood now. Part of what I understood what they were going to do is pull that storm drain out and then turn that into a road, none of that has been mentioned anywhere yet. That would help me with my flooding problem.

President Thompson stated, I don’t want to sound like I’m cutting you off, do you have more? Something to say?

Perry Powers stated, I think that I have given enough.

President Thompson stated, I have a concern and this is to the Board, it appeared that we have a lot of semi unknowns here to me and you addressed that when you came to the meeting. Just a question to the Board, do we want to vote on this tonight?

Carol Stradling stated, he’s asked to table it.

President Thompson asked he has?

David Uttermohlen stated, if you recall, I said that we have not done, if I might remind, just to refresh you, one of the first things that I said is that we have changed because of the conversations that we had this morning with the City Council and the Mayor and Director Weaver. We all came down to the conclusion that what was agreed to at the City Council was not appropriate giving that we were not at that time, at the time that we went we thought that it was going to be a subdivision. It’s not a subdivision because we’re not subdividing, it is simply a City lot with existing, to be used with it’s existing zoning. So we then decided that we would have to go for a variance on the 50’ on the street and as I predicated this conversation, I know that we are not prepared to ask you to vote on that tonight. What I’m asking for is a, some input from the Zoning Board as to whether it would be feasible at all. If you guys are not going to grant the variance I don’t want to go through the expense, I would rather spend the money on something else.

President Thompson stated, I recall all that you said I just didn’t hear the table term mentioned persay. So back to the Board, Carol?

Carol Stradling asked, so we’re not voting, we’re just…

President Thompson stated listening.

Carol Stradling stated, listening, what was your question?

Attorney Altman stated, he was going to table it.

President Thompson stated, I didn’t hear the term, I know that’s what he was getting at, I didn’t know whether you wanted to state it tabled or if you wanted us to officially declare it tabled until next month. That’s basically where I’m coming from.

David Uttermohlen stated, I will be happy, obviously, whichever works out best, I will be happy to request that you table the, because the setback the two things that are on the agenda for tonight were the setback and the square footage.

President Thompson stated, right.

David Uttermohlen stated, the setbacks become moot, since that won’t be a street we don’t have setback and we won’t have frontage so that issued has become moot. The only thing that you can vote on tonight would be the square footage variance. The square footage variance is totally contingent upon getting access to the property anyway so I will request that you table the whole thing and I thank you very much for your input and would it be possible for me to contact the members individually, no, okay…

Attorney Altman stated, no, it’s specifically, the statute says they are like judges, you can’t contact them outside of the meeting area, you can contact Director Weaver or me okay?

David Uttermohlen stated, okay.

Attorney Altman stated, and I would recommend and I guess that I would recommend that you look at these other potentials for access like up by the Welfare Department and all. You obviously if you just get any input at all you’re getting some negative here about the proposal that you have and the Board can’t tell you nor are you exactly asking them to tell you that it’s going to be okay next month. I understand that and you understand that the only thing that I’m saying is don’t, you know, these are potential solutions, use them.

David Uttermohlen stated, okay, I thank you very much for your time.

Attorney Altman stated, now so everyone understands it will be continued until next meeting and that will be February the…

Director Weaver stated, 21st.

Attorney Altman stated, 21st right here at 7:30 okay? Does anyone have any questions on that?

Ray Ferdinand asked, Attorney Altman, how can the gentlemen that stood up there and open the meeting with I want to table this and then went through a distortion of what he wanted to do and what ever?

Attorney Altman stated, well, it’s just like we let everyone else…

Ray Ferdinand stated, no wait…

Attorney Altman stated, and that’s, and there was no objection to it at the time nor any objection to the people that asked questions or objected so we just went conceptually and that’s how we did it I guess is the best that I can say.

Ray Ferdinand asked, is that right?

Attorney Altman stated, yes, as long as everyone agreed to it.

Carol Stradling stated, I don’t know that he ever said that he wanted to table it.

Ray Ferdinand stated, yes he did.

An audience member stated, yes, he did.

Carol Stradling asked, with that term? I knew that he didn’t expect a vote but, he was looking for what additional information he might need.

Ray Ferdinand stated, no Carol, shortly into his statement I think that you said, “I want to table this”.

David Uttermohlen stated, I don’t recall, it’s on tape so it will be on the transfer.

President Thompson asked, so again, February the 21st. is that okay with everyone?

Attorney Altman stated, same time right here.

Robert Uttermohlen stated, I’ve been the silent partner but I thank you also.

President Thompson stated, thank you.

****

#2077 Darrell D. & Beth Anne Brown; Requesting a 2’ front setback variance to build a detached garage on lot #164 in Barr’s Addition. The property is located in the City of Monticello at 321 S. Illinois Street.

President Thompson asked, anyone here representing this request?

Darrell Brown was present to represent the request.

President Thompson asked, do you care to address, give additional information sir?

Darrell Brown stated, no, basically all that I want, I want the garage 24’ by I actually want to go 34’ instead of 32’ but, it will still be the same setback and basically I have to get a variance for it. Actually, my house is still closer to the street than what the garage will be, the garage is in middle of the yard.

President Thompson asked, any response from anyone Director Weaver?

Director Weaver stated, no, I have not received anything in the office.

President Thompson asked, does anyone here care to address this variance tonight either for or against?

Jay Clawson asked, do you have a plot plan for what that is going to look like?

President Thompson stated, yes.

Carol Stradling asked, Darrell, repeat that, did you say it was actually going to be what?

Darrell Brown asked, what do you mean?

Attorney Altman stated, closer to the street, your house will be closer to the street than the garage is, is what I thought that you said.

Darrell Brown stated, yes, no matter what the garage is…

Carol Stradling asked, the size of your garage is going to be…?

Darrell Brown stated, actually I was on the paper right now it was a 24’ x 32’ but, I’m thinking about going ahead and go 24’ x 34’ but, that doesn’t change the variance because you know just making it longer a little bit 2’ longer.

Carol Stradling stated, actually is says 24’ by, what is the 26’ on there?

Director Weaver stated, the 26’ is the measurement of the current garage.

Darrell Brown stated, yes the current garage.

Carol Stradling asked, can we do that?

Director Weaver stated, yes, I was questioning that too.

President Thompson asked, what?

Director Weaver stated, the drawing shows 32’ he actually wants to go 34’.

Darrell Brown stated, if I have to do it that way, I still can you know, it’s just something that I thought about.

Attorney Altman asked, is that the way that he’s varying it?

Director Weaver stated, no.

Attorney Altman asked, the variance is, he can make, as long as the variance isn’t increased and I’m just saying that very legally that if it isn’t being increased you can expand but if it’s being increased you can’t expand without re-advertising.

Darrell Brown stated, the only reason that I mentioned that is because I haven’t really got my permit yet so I thought well I can still make it just a little bit longer before I get my permit.

Attorney Altman stated, well, the problem is, it’s your variance request that would limit…

Darrell Brown stated, yes, but, I’m not going to change that.

Carol Stradling stated, what he’s saying is he won’t be any closer to the street.

President Thompson stated, right, he’s going deeper.

Darrell Brown stated, right.

Attorney Altman stated, and the variance is from the street.

Director Weaver stated, and the variance is from the street.

President Thompson stated, that’s right.

Attorney Altman stated, then no problem.

Darrell Brown stated, I’m just wanting to go wider, that’s what I’m doing.

Attorney Altman stated, now the other question is single story?

Darrell Brown stated, yes, it’s just a garage.

Attorney Altman asked, and it will be similar in structure to your house?

President Thompson asked, height and so forth?

Attorney Altman asked, height and so forth.

Darrell Brown stated, my house is 2 story, this garage will just be single story.

Attorney Altman asked, and you’ll access from the alley?

Darrell Brown stated, no, from Illinois Street, I mean Market Street.

Director Weaver stated, your previous garage accessed that way also right?

Darrell Brown stated, yes, I’m using the same lane and everything.

Attorney Altman stated, just trying to make the record.

President Thompson asked, does anyone else here care to address this either for or against? Any questions or concerns from the Board? If not, are we ready to vote? We shall vote.

With no further discussion the Board voted.

1. That the property is properly zoned R-2, One and Two Family Residential.

2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114.

3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.

4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.

5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.

6. That the request is for a 2’ front setback variance to build a detached garage on Lot 164 in Barr’s Addition to the City of Monticello, White County, Indiana.

COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located in the City of Monticello at 321 N. Illinois Street.

7. That the variance herein authorized and granted is not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make typical or recurrent the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said condition or situation of the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variance is based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variance under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.

The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 4 affirmative and 0 negative.

Attorney Altman stated, you need to get a building permit before you proceed.

Darrell Brown stated, okay, thank you.

****

President Thompson stated, I’m going to back up for just a second, variance #2075 just kind of for the Board here. Yes, it has been tabled, I didn’t hear him table it if you did, I missed it. If that’s what he wants, he or she that’s what they want I want to hear it said and I want to hear it on record and rather than to use a different choice of words, you heard him use that term Carol?

Carol Stradling stated, I don’t remember Jerry.

President Thompson stated, what’s done is done.

Director Weaver stated, I don’t recall.

President Thompson asked, do you follow where I’m coming from?

Carol Stradling stated, just whatever he said I knew that we weren’t going to vote on it tonight. He wanted to know what else he needed.

President Thompson stated, right.

Attorney Altman stated, if he said tabled, I can’t swear right now.

President Thompson stated, I can’t either.

Carol Stradling stated, I can’t either.

Attorney Altman stated, I was thinking about my notes I have a pretty decent laundry list…

David Scott stated, he may not table but he did say he didn’t want a vote.

Jay Clawson stated, I just thought that he was asking for you to listen about the road thing and I was still thinking that he wanted you to act on the space variance, that’s the way that his conversation led me to believe because I never heard him say…

Attorney Altman stated, if I turned to you and said we’re not going to do this…

President Thompson stated, right but, that was my thing I thought that maybe, I dozed off there, or something.

Attorney Altman stated, on that one and this is nothing on the merits but, I think that it would be an excellent thing for not tomorrow but, I’m going to send him a letter basically outlining my shopping list here. We can add anything to it, be sure to write stuff down, what you think that you want.

Director Weaver stated, yes, I’m going to let him know also but, you might want to add to your list we’re going to need a legal description for that property that he’s going to purchase from Deibel so that we can advertise, add that to the legal description.

Attorney Altman stated, yes, I haven’t thought about that but it sure would be.

Carol Stradling stated, the more that we’re listing to this I’m thinking it would inappropriate for me to suggest that he purchase the Power’s property.

Attorney Altman stated, probably.

President Thompson stated, good luck.

Attorney Altman stated, probably, yes.

Director Weaver stated, I think that Jay has something.

President Thompson stated, Jay.

Jay Clawson stated, we asked at the time that he could actually buy Deibel's whole property was not feasible for him, he did not want to spend that kind of money to make this project fly. I also asked, could you pay Mr. Deibel to move his building? That’s a big lot that he has there, move it over on the lot so that everything would adhere to. We don’t keep minutes like word for word and we had a real lengthily discussion on at the time what it reflects in our minutes is very vague to what was actually gone through we spent probably an hour talking about this. There was discussion when we finally came down to it that we asked that we have a special, the City has said, we asked that, that road be built to the City’s specifications and now we’re wanting to vary you know we said yes to this now he’s not wanting to and we reluctantly said yes to this now it’s going to a different, I would like for the City to if he’s wanting to vary for us to give our blessings before we adhere to a less than standard street it’s become muddled.

President Thompson stated, a little bit. Dan, do you care to, you talked to me before the meeting tonight, do you care to say something more tonight what we discussed just kind of briefly just kind of, I think that most of our wear, we’re going to have more of these concerns coming up.

Dan Banes stated, Southeast of Brookston we have a…

Director Weaver stated, does everyone know who he is?

President Thompson stated, Dan excuse me, introduce yourself, you and I have know one another for a long…

Dan Banes stated, I’m Dan Banes from the Health Department.

President Thompson stated, yes, thank you.

Dan Banes stated, we’re starting to have some septic problems in that neighborhood the lots are small and the newer additions and I see in the next few years possible 10 years we’re going to have a lot of systems fail. What I would like to see is maybe Brookston maybe expand their sewer system to where they can accommodate these houses if they can’t we’re going to have to get the Sewer Board, White County Sewer Board to try to set something up. If these systems start failing these smaller lots, they are not going to be able to do anything with them. We’re going to have a ghost town out there.

Director Weaver stated, can you give me an idea of what area you’re talking about.

Dan Banes stated, yes it’s…

President Thompson stated, Ted Nichols Addition, can I help you there Dan.

Dan Banes stated, Lehe Addition and then there's another small addition out there and then there’s a new one starting across the bridge, Prairie something…

Director Weaver stated, those are large tracts…

Dan Banes stated, yes those are large but, we need to get something in there, we’re not talking immediately but, it takes a long time to get something set up and I would like to try to get something started to correct the problem.

President Thompson stated, we talked before the meeting there a little bit and I offered to go with him. I think that he needs to in that situation speak to the Brookston Town Board as well as maybe the Township Advisor Board, Charlie, what do you think, who all should be contacted?

Charlie Mellon stated, Town Board would have more say so.

President Thompson stated, well but this addition is sitting in the Township.

Charlie Mellon stated, well the Trustee might get involved.

President Thompson stated, but, the addition is sitting in the Township’s property it’s not the Town of Brookston.

Charlie Mellon stated, there isn’t a White County Sewer Board, the Twin Lakes Sewer Board but, that wouldn’t be involved in that down there even though it is going South quite a ways.

President Thompson stated, but, it would involve the Drainage Board.

Charlie Mellon stated, yes.

Director Weaver asked, Dan, David Rosenbarger who is on our Area Plan Commission, he is also on the Town Board of Brookston…

Dan Banes stated, oh, okay.

Director Weaver stated, he would probably be a good contact person for you.

President Thompson stated, yes.

Director Weaver stated, I want to mention one thing to the Board with the Uttermohlen variance tonight, you were given some information that was here when you got here about a previous lawsuit, you just might want to take that information home and look that over before next month. I know that you didn’t get much time to look at it tonight. I don’t know that it’s going to have any bearing on anything but, I thought that you might want to look it over.

President Thompson asked, Attorney Altman, anything on CDC?

Attorney Altman stated, I haven’t heard a word yet.

President Thompson stated, okay, all right.

Attorney Altman stated, I would expect to have something directly, I honestly do.

President Thompson asked, the Board, do you have anything?

Carol Stradling stated, when I got back from vacation, I had a message on my answering machine, I called the Herald Journal and I indicated that I really couldn’t say anything about the Indiana Beach thing. There were lawsuits involved and he indicated to me that there was an editorial in the Logansport Paper.

Attorney Altman stated, yes.

President Thompson asked, was there really?

Carol Stradling stated, which I have not seen.

Director Weaver stated, I did not know that.

Carol Stradling stated, and I would kind of like to see that Attorney Altman. I don’t get the Logansport Paper if you could…

Attorney Altman stated, I didn’t then, I do now, yes it was.

Director Weaver asked, any idea when?

Attorney Altman stated, the Sunday after.

Carol Stradling stated, said that we basically folded under is basically what he said. He wanted some response from the Board and I said I really can’t respond other than to say you know I can’t say why the Board made the decision but, I could say that I don’t feel that I buckled under to Indiana Beach.

Director Weaver asked, is that the Pharos Tribune?

President Thompson asked, that’s the editor writing this as far as you know?

Carol Stradling stated, it was a letter to the editor I believe.

Director Weaver stated, I will contact them…

Attorney Altman stated, no it was an editorial.

Carol Stradling asked, it was an editorial?

Attorney Altman stated, yes, it was an editorial in the paper.

Director Weaver stated, I will see if we can get a copy.

Carol Stradling stated, there’s was a part of me that said, I don’t like it I need to respond…

President Thompson stated, we can’t.

Director Weaver stated, well…

Attorney Altman stated, I didn’t, I think that I read it in the library there and I didn’t think to go run a copy of it.

Director Weaver stated, they were here at that meeting, that was the photographer that was here at that meeting was from the Pharos Tribune.

Attorney Altman stated, but, then he left and the newspaper rang the doorbell and reported it and all that he wanted to know is what it was about, the vote.

Director Weaver stated, I didn’t know about that.

Attorney Altman asked, do you remember when I went down, the bell rang, I went down?

Director Weaver stated, yes.

Attorney Altman stated, that’s who was there, he just wanted to know what the vote was. I told him what the vote was and then I kept reading trying to look at the paper and the Sunday after that or maybe it was 2 Sunday’s after that it was in there.

Director Weaver stated, okay, I will see if I can find something.

Carol Stradling stated, I’m kind of caught up with reading the Herald Journal either I don’t think that the Herald Journal has printed anything about it.

Attorney Altman stated, not that I have seen.

Carol Stradling stated, which they could have and they didn’t which I have kind of said I know that it’s a lawsuit, you know.

President Thompson asked, is there anything else?

Director Weaver stated, no.

Dave Scott stated, we’re writing a well head protection program, does the other towns that have done this like Monticello…

Director Weaver stated, I know that Reynolds has addressed it, Jay, Monticello, have they addressed that?

Jay Clawson asked, what?

Director Weaver stated, the well protection.

Attorney Altman stated, the well head protection.

Jay Clawson stated, yes, we have a committee going we’re in the midst of getting our plan and everything all drawn up for it yes.

Dave Scott stated, we’re writing ours now, I need to know how to put that in so that you be aware when someone is wanting to do something.

Director Weaver stated, Dave, we haven’t had any contact with the Towns.

Jay Clawson stated, I think that all of the towns should get…

Attorney Altman stated, send it to them…

Jay Clawson stated, yes, we needed it at Area Plan and you guys need it here too.

Director Weaver stated, I agree.

Jay Clawson stated, these are very…

Attorney Altman stated, sensitive…

Jay Clawson stated, sensitive sites yes and they need to be looked at hard when you’re doing anything developing around it.

Director Weaver stated, I’ll draft up a letter and send it to the small towns and request that they give us a copy of it.

David Scott stated, they may not be done with it because we have more time yet before we have to have it finished but, when we get on the program we need to have it, you need to know where our area is.

Attorney Altman stated, sure.

Carol Stradling asked, that plan identifies business industries that might have chemicals that would effect water.

Attorney Altman stated, yes.

President Thompson asked,

Carol Stradling made motion to adjourn.

Gary Barbour seconded the motion.

The meeting adjourned.

Respectfully submitted,

Gary Barbour, Secretary

Diann Weaver, Director

White County Area Plan Commission