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The White County Board of Zoning Appeals met on Thursday, December 18, 2003 at 7:30 p.m. in the Commissioners’ Meeting Room, Second Floor, County Building, Monticello, Indiana.

Members attending were Gary Barbour, David Scott, Carol Stradling, and Jerry Thompson. Also attending were Attorney Jerry Altman and Director Diann Weaver.

Visitors attending were: Charles R. Mellon, Cherry Croy, Tim Irelan, Bob Blamer, Carole Blamer, Praveen Gulati, Jim Brown, Sandra Brown, Teresa Frey, Larry Dill, Scott Sproles, Terri Sproles, Bill Sproles, Gloria Sproles, Phil Vogel, Jerry Kyburz, Lloyd Kyburz, Roger Wiese, and Steve Vanderipe

The meeting was called to order by President Jerry Thompson and roll call was taken. Carol Stradling made a motion to dispense with reading and approve the minutes of the July 17, 2003 meeting. Motion was seconded by David Scott and carried unanimously. Attorney Altman swore in all Board members and audience members.

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#2267 Lafayette Bank & Trust, Owner; Robert & Carole Blamer, Applicant: The property is located on 3.990 acres, West of Reynolds at 1766 W. 25 S.

Violation: None

Request: They are requesting a special exception as per Section 10.20, Article 10.2001 of the White County Zoning Ordinance to place a kennel on the property.

President Jerry Thompson asked, is there anyone here representing this variance?

Robert Blamer stated, I’m Bob Blamer.

President Jerry Thompson asked, would you please come forward to the microphone?

Attorney Altman stated, let me tell you why you need to do that. We have had several times when people are talking from the back of the audience. Quite frankly with just a little bit of background noise it doesn’t get picked up and it isn’t a part of the record. What you are saying you think is important. It is important enough to have it on the record. Without it some things fail to pass.


President Jerry Thompson asked, do you have anything additional you would like to present to the board tonight?


Robert Blamer stated, just the fact that it is 10 acres. I also made an offer to purchase the adjacent property contingent on getting approval to build a kennel. The total acre is 3.9 and another 6 acres.


Carol Stradling asked, so that would be the 6 acres in front of you?


Robert Blamer stated, correct.


Carol Stradling asked, also belonging to Michael & Connie Lehe?


Robert Blamer stated, yes, the original property that the house is built on originally belonged to them also. They also own the land in back of it.


President Jerry Thompson asked, is there anyone who cares to address the matter either for or against?


Lloyd Kyburz stated, I’m Lloyd Kyburz.


President Jerry Thompson stated, go ahead, but not to be picky you have to face the board. You have to address the board.


Lloyd Kyburz asked, what is the kennel going to do?


Robert Blamer stated, it is going to handle dogs and cats for boarding.


Lloyd Kyburz stated, okay only boarding, no breeding or grooming.


Robert Blamer stated, there will probably be grooming.


Lloyd Kyburz asked, how about breeding animals?


Robert Blamer stated, we haven’t contemplated that.


Lloyd Kyburz stated, now or in the future.


Robert Blamer stated, it is possible in the future.


Lloyd Kyburz asked, will the diagram be the exact location.


Robert Blamer stated, I believe it is quite close. It maybe moved back farther. It is pretty close.


Lloyd Kyburz stated, so you are not sure.


Robert Blamer stated, I’m quite positive the general location is correct.


Lloyd Kyburz asked, what will be the average stay, so you have any idea.


Robert Blamer stated, one day to a week.


Lloyd Kyburz stated, this question I might address to the board. Can a location and size be changed after an approval?


President Jerry Thompson stated, I’m going to let Jerry handle that, but I believe they can only, if they come back to the board.


Lloyd Kyburz asked, can the location and size of the kennel be changed after an approval?


Attorney Altman stated, we generally have the bases for the application is the document and evidence that we received and that we have in the file. We have a very specific location for this proposed kennel on the site improvement survey. No it would not be able to be increased, unless you come in and asked for another special exception.


Lloyd Kyburz stated, okay the reason I asked that question, is because I know where there is a dog kennel that got a variance and established a dog kennel.


Attorney Altman stated, we are talking about a special exception that is different than a variance.


Lloyd Kyburz stated, it is, okay so with the special exception, with a variance then they could add more facility without or if it is on the track of land that they got the approval on to begin with. They could with a variance, but they could not with a special exception. Is that correct.


Attorney Altman stated, they can not with either. It is a violation and please let us know and we will take steps to enforce it. These are size and sites specific.


Lloyd Kyburz stated, so it would be breaking the law after the approval was given for a specific size and specific location to put up another facility on the same property. It would be breaking the law if it were done.


Attorney Altman stated, I don’t believe it is breaking the law, but.


President Jerry Thompson stated, they would need approval to do so.


Attorney Altman stated, it has to be consistent with the special exception or the variance. Assuming that the variance was size specific.


Gary Barbour stated, they can go smaller, but they can not go bigger.


Lloyd Kyburz stated, I understand okay. Will the hours of the operation, will there be hours of operation when people can come and go?


Robert Blamer stated, yes, we haven’t got that far, but yes there will be hours of operations. It won’t be 24 hours a day.


Lloyd Kyburz stated, right, but okay. Where will they park and where will they turn around?


Robert Blamer stated, on the 10 acres.


Lloyd Blamer asked, what happens then when ever the ground is so wet that they get stuck.


Robert Blamer stated, I will make sure it isn’t too wet so they get stuck.


Lloyd Blamer stated, okay, so you are going to put in a parking area.


Robert Blamer stated, oh yes. May I ask what is your concern with the specific location is?


Lloyd Kyburz stated, sure I’m glad you asked that. I have a cattle farm adjoining it.


Robert Blamer stated, you have all of those cows that run up and down there. Good.


Lloyd Kyburz stated, I’m sorry I should have.


Robert Blamer asked, so I could have put cows or pigs there without getting a special exception?


Lloyd Kyburz stated, that is not for me to answer. That is traditional what has been there, I will put it that way. How far then will the customer have to walk to get the dog to the building?


Robert Blamer stated, I haven’t figured that out yet. I will make it convenient.


Lloyd Kyburz stated, so you don’t know that. The next question the board has already answered. So I won’t ask that one. What about disposal of dog waste.


Robert Blamer stated, I will take care of that.


Lloyd Kyburz asked, how?


Robert Blamer stated, I checked with the health department and they said any normal way to take care of it is fine. There are no special requirements, it will be a lot less then the cows and the pigs.


Lloyd Kyburz stated, that is all the questions I have on this at this time.


Attorney Altman stated, I know that you indicated that you are purchasing 6 acres in addition to the 3.9 acres of the 9.9 acres of the proposed special exception. The only matter that we have before us this evening is the special exception on the 3.99 acres. You are apparently buying some other ground that is adjacent to that, but your request is only for a special exception on 3.99 acres.


Robert Blamer stated, the request was for 10 acre site. The papers were turned into you with the other 6 acres and on that offer to purchase 6 acres. The purchase was also contingent on getting approval for the kennel. I do have a copy of it with me.


Attorney Altman stated, I have a copy here. All I can tell you what advertised and it was 3.99 acres.


Robert Blamer stated, so then you made a mistake.


Director Weaver asked, there is no amended application in there?


Attorney Altman stated, not that I know of. Here is the request signed by Robert and Carolyn for 3.99 acres.


Carol Stradling asked, since he is going bigger does that pose a problem?


Attorney Altman stated, yes it does. If he is going to have it on 10 acres, yes it would. It is like you can go smaller, but you can not go bigger.


Carol Stradling stated, well he isn’t making the kennel bigger, so proportionally it would be making the kennel smaller.


Attorney Altman stated, that may be, but what I’m saying is the request is on 3.99 acres. It was advertised and if you want it for the 10 acres it needs to be re-tabled and re-advertised. That is what I’m trying to say. You can go ahead with the request that was advertised as 3.99 acres.


Robert Blamer asked, why was it advertised as 3.99 acres?


Attorney Altman stated, because your request was for 3.99 acres that I’m looking at that you signed.


Carol Stradling stated, it may go through for the 3.99.


Attorney Altman stated, maybe, but I’m telling you it is significant that his special exception was not advertised at 10 acres.


Robert Blamer stated, I will decide that later.


Sandy Brown stated, I’m Sandy Brown with Stefaniak Realty and a couple of days after we applied for the special exception on the 3.99 acres, I took to the Court House a copy of this offer to purchase. I thought that would help by buying the additional 6 acres. I gave it to Cindy.


Director Weaver stated, that is in the file, but there was no new application done. There would have had to have been a revised application or amended application on that.


President Jerry Thompson asked, is there anyone else who cares to address the variance?


Terri Sproles stated, I’m Terri Sproles and I’m here speaking on behalf of Bill and Gloria Sproles, who are my in-laws. They own property adjacent on the East side of. They have 12 acres on the East side. I have some concerns, I have two small children who are frequently there, so I have concerns regarding a kennel being in there. What types of dogs are going to be kenneled? In addition we just put in a swimming pool last year, so I’m concerned about the barking and the smell. The flies that are going to be out there. It doesn’t have a real clear way of how they are going to be disposing of the waste. Those are the concerns that I have, having children. I’m not hearing, I don’t doubt it is going to be a top notch facility, but it doesn’t sound like there has been a whole lot of planning quite yet into what type of structure it is going to be, how secure is it going to be. Is it going to be in a close proximity to the cows, that it will be causing some havoc there? What about the fact that we have farm dogs out there that run loose. What is going to happen when you put a kennel in there?


Robert Blamer stated, that dog goes the whole length of the road, and in fact it chased me one day.


Bill Sproles stated, I’m Bill Sproles. I live on the East side and that is my property and I’m concerned about the dogs that would be there, are they going to be racing dogs, breeding dogs, what kind of dogs? You can pick up a paper any time there is a German shepherd or a pit bull is up there. They go for your throat not a hobby. These are my grandsons. I’m sorry this is the way I feel.


Jerry Kyburz stated, I’m Jerry Kyburz and I just want to address the noise issue. I live over in Princeton Township and there is a kennel that is probably a little over half a mile from me and I can tell you that the yelping from those dogs is not a small noise. I think it will affect the property value right around there. I can hear very plainly off and on, it is not a small thing. It sounds like a pack of dogs and I can hear it over a half of mile a way. I just want to address that issue. I live in Princeton Township.


Robert Blamer stated, how close is that to that property?


Jerry Kyburz stated, that property I’m also an owner of and I’m concerned about the depreciating value because of the sound and we have a renter there in that house, right there across the fence.


Robert Blamer stated, it is a couple of blocks away.


Jerry Kyburz stated, it is right next to the fence.


Terri Spoles stated, I’m Terry Sproles again. One thing that he is kind of hitting on is if you have a kennel there and you’ve got cattle right beside it and it is going to be very close proximity. That is going to make the dogs bark all the more if you’ve got all of those cattle out there. We spend the balk of our time outside during the summer and I don’t want to listen to all of that, so back on that noise issue and I’m not a half a mile away, like this gentleman, I’m right next door.


Robert Blamer asked, how far way is that.


Terri Sproles stated, right across the street from that land.


Robert Blamer asked, how far away is that?


Terri Sproles stated, less than a quarter mile.


Several talking at once.


Someone is talking from the back and I can not hear them.


Robert Blamer stated, the kennel is going to be double fenced and also I intend to put, because I didn’t want the dogs to bother the cows. I intended to put up a fence so that the cows could not see the dogs and the dogs could not see the cows.


President Jerry Thompson asked, are there any questions from the board?


Carol Stradling asked, have you had experience in being a kennel owner?


Robert Blamer stated, no, not actual experience, but I have had a lot of experience with animals.


Carol Stradling asked, so you have never operated a kennel before?


Robert Blamer stated, I have never operated a kennel before. I have operated a lot of big companies but never a kennel.


Carol Stradling asked, do you have a septic system out there?


Robert Blamer stated, yes I do.


Carol Stradling asked, are you planning on living on the premises?


Robert Blamer stated, yes we do.


Carol Stradling asked, so you will be living on site?


Robert Blamer stated, yes, my daughter will be there full time and we will be there quite a bit too. As far as the disposal of the waste I will do what ever the health department requires.


Teresa Fry stated, I’m Teresa Fry and I have some questions because I couldn’t get a hold of my White County Zoning Ordinance today. One of the questions I was wondering about is what areas are zoned within White County where kennels are allowed and what zoning does allow that? I believe it is currently zoned ag?


Director Weaver stated, a kennel has to have a special exception no matter where it goes.


Teresa Fry stated, so no matter where it goes it has to have a special exception.


Director Weaver stated, I believe so.


President Jerry Thompson asked, what is your relationship to this area?


Teresa Fry stated, I’m the renter.


Director Weaver stated, it has to have a special exception.


Teresa Fry stated, so no matter what zoning it requires a special exception. What determines when you are approving a special exception? For example are there any criteria’s that you do have to follow?


Attorney Altman stated, sure are.


Teresa Fry asked, what is that criteria?


Attorney Altman stated, general standards. The BZA shall review the particular circumstances for a special land use request under consideration in terms of the following standards, and approve a Special Land Use only upon finding compliance with each of the following standards, as well as applicable standards established within this Ordinance. (Attorney Altman is reading from the White County Zoning ordinance.)


Teresa Frey stated, I know that they vary from county to county, so I just wanted to double check. This kennel would be considered a commercial facility, since it is a commercial operation.


Robert Blamer stated, people won’t pay to have their dogs or cats taken there. That is considered commercial then it is commercial. I don’t know what the definition is or what you want to put on commercial.


Teresa Frey stated, I guess you can look at it, do you define commercial as what is defined in the zoning ordinance or.


Robert Blamer stated, that is up to the board.


Attorney Altman stated, he is clearly saying he will be charging for somebody using the kennel, so that would be probably commercial.


Teresa Frey asked, have you investigated any other property in the State, I mean in the county that is already zoned or do have special exceptions? And are there already special exceptions granted for specific properties because I do know that there are several kennels that do exist now and if they do and are any of them for sale or are any existing so you wouldn’t have to have a special exception granted?


Robert Blamer stated, I don’t have any knowledge of that. I looked at a lot of properties and none of them had kennels on them.


Carol Stradling asked, does the special exception travel with the property or with the owner?


Attorney Altman stated, with the property.


Teresa Frey stated, you said you had no operational experience with kennels.


Robert Blamer stated, I did not say that, I said I have never run a kennel, but I have a lot of experience with dogs and I have some experience with kennels. I have had dogs stay in kennels, I have been in a lot of kennels, so I do have some experience with kennels. My answer was I’ve never run a kennel, but I do have experience with kennels and knowledge with kennels.


Teresa Frey stated, I’m just trying to understand the whole kennel thing and how it is going to be used and so forth. I know from the size of the building that is laid out on the property that is a pretty good size kennel so how are you going to justify it if it is just a small operation. How do you justify the size of it or I’m just trying to figure out what this kennel is going to be used for. The size of it is a commercial building, the amount of traffic that is going to have to travel in and out of there to fill out that kennel could be at certain times typically weekends or before the holidays and so forth. It is going to be increased so I’m just trying to figure out what all, what your vision is going to be.


Robert Blamer stated, I bet you could figure it out better than I can. I don’t think there will be much.


Teresa Frey stated, you said you would be there part of the time, but your daughter will be there the majority of the time.


Robert Blamer stated, yes.


Teresa Frey stated, so this isn’t for you.


Robert Blamer stated, no it is for me.


Teresa Frey asked, are you planning on retiring there?


Robert Blamer stated, I’m to young to retire.


Teresa Frey stated, just to voice some of my concerns. I work for a construction company and I help prepare for some of these BZA meetings and I have never had to attend one. We have been in some pretty sticky situations and I spent 5 years in architect school and I have heard all about the nimby that is not in my back yard. For me this was a hard thing for me to come here tonight because I really struggled with am I upset because it is going to be in my back yard, even though I’m just a renter? I consider Mr. Kyburz is kind of like another father to me and it has been good because I have come up here and I went from one farm to another. One of the things that I worry about is the increase spread of the commercial property out into the counties themselves. There is a lot of property that is still available relative close to the city and towns, etcetera that a commercial boarding operation would probably be more appropriate and probably be closer for the user to actual use that type of facility, so that is one of my concerns. Do I want a kennel behind me? I don’t know I have never lived behind a kennel before. I do know that a problem we have with cows because I have seen them run through the fence and so forth when there are a lot of dogs available, but once again you said you would have a fence.


Robert Blamer stated, the kennel will be fenced and the property will also be fenced.


Teresa Frey asked, so you are going to fence the whole property?


Robert Blamer stated, no, but there will be a double fence around the kennel.


Teresa Frey stated, a double fence around the kennel.


Robert Blamer stated, that is the way it is usually done. If you do purchase the additional and I know this isn’t and I know we don’t know if it is the 6 or the 3.99 or what ever.


Attorney Altman stated, it is the 3.99.


Teresa Frey stated, it is the 3.99.


Attorney Altman stated, there is no doubt.


Teresa Frey stated, it only applies the 3.99, it doesn’t apply to the additional 2?


Robert Blamer stated, it is an additional 6.


Teresa Frey stated, I think I have run out of questions now.


Robert Blamer stated, to rent, buy, or live if all of those concerns in a residential area that is zoned residential or even R-1.


Bill Sproles stated, I’m Bill Sproles again and you have a point there usually when you bring a dog kennel in everything else that just runs the property down.


Robert Blamer asked, what does a pig farm do.


Bill Sproles stated, pig farms are usually way out in the open.


Robert Blamer stated, if you go out there it is pretty open.


President Jerry Thompson stated, sir please make your point we have other variance here tonight, we have heard enough testimony.


Bill Sproles stated, I grew up on a farm and I had cows. My dad and I raised cattle and (can not understand what he is saying)


Carol Stradling stated, I’m not sure that he is looking at a pack of dogs. If you watching or caring for someone else’s animals and you want it as a commercial even or operation, these dogs would not be running loose. You wouldn’t have a pack of dogs.


Bill Sproles stated, all I’m talking about is a pack of dogs barking.


Carol Stradling stated, the barking would be an issue, but if these dogs.


Bill Sproles stated, how you going to silence a dog unless you put a muzzle on it.


Carol Stradling stated, what I’m saying Mr. Sproles is that it is different then a pack of dogs that would attach another animal. I don’t think we can look at the pack of dogs issue with this particular situation.


Bill Sproles stated, okay but yourself in my shoes.


Carol Stradling stated, the barking is a different issue, but I want to separate the safety from running dogs and a pack of dogs from the kennel.


Bill Sproles stated, there are 2 issues here. The dogs and the barking.


Carol Stradling stated, there are several issues here and we will look at all of them.


President Jerry Thompson stated, sir, let me intervene. Let's rap this up I don’t know how many variances and special exceptions that we have done dealt with over in the year of 2003. I can speak for this board and it is a fine group of people, they put themselves in as many people’s positions as possible and we try to be as fair as possible. They live in White County too. This is not an easy job setting on this board.


Bill Sproles stated, well I know that.


President Jerry Thompson stated, well I wish you would appreciate that, they are trying to do a fair and honest job tonight and it is not a hap hazard operation here. We go home with this stuff on our minds and I just don’t think enough people realize what these people truly do for White County.


Robert Blamer asked, can I respond to him?


President Jerry Thompson stated, no, right here you will get your time.


Lloyd Kyburz stated, I have written some stuff out. Since the 1940 our family has maintain the farm adjoining the proposed dog kennel as a family farm raising livestock. For many of those years until the present time there has been cattle on this farm. We call it a brood cowherd or in other words mothers having and raising baby calves. There has been pasture joining the land of the proposed kennel for years long before there were any houses on that land. Along with the cattle and land investment, which is an agriculture business. There has been substantial investment in fencing, farms, feed storage, concrete floors, cattle pens, watering facilities besides all of this investments you all realize there’s been and continues to be property taxes paid on all of those things. A dog kennel anywhere on the property of the special exception applicant would be very stressful to the cattle herd, decrease in deficiency and production, would be the obvious result. This will result in less net profit or no profit. This would not be the worse thing that could happen because of the kennel on the adjoining property, no profit, that would not be the worse thing. Another thing that would be much worse, cattle can be spooked by surprise happenings this could be by customers, their dogs, their passengers, with them, their vehicles or their dogs getting loose as they walk them to the kennel. It could be a dog or dogs barking in the kennel. Once a cow or cows are spooked or frightened they may stampede and others that may not been frightened will also become frightened and join in the stampede. Once this happens they will stop for nothing and I mean nothing, they will stop for nothing. They can go through good fence, hit vehicles, they will charge into anything that will get in their way. I know it has happened to me on that farm. After they had gone a mile Roger Weise was able to get some of them in his barn pin. Some continued to go South and we chased on foot and in a pickup all afternoon. After they had gone South to West of Chalmers and this is from Reynolds to West of Chalmers and even beyond a little bit farther we caught some, corner some and loaded them. One we trapped in Eric Culver’s barn. I believe there was one we couldn’t find by night. We told people if they saw it to shoot it for fear of it getting out on the road and hurting someone. I know it can happen I have seen it and heard it before. It doesn’t have to be sight it can easily be sound. In this situation it probably was sound, I’m not going to say what I think it was because I don’t know for sure, but it probably was sound. Also when the variance was applied for to put a house and a drive along the back yard of the house and also along where we have kept cattle, we were concerned and disappointed, but we did not contest it. Now we are faced with a business in the back yard with a drive for customers approximately 20’ from the back yard, approximately 20’ from where the livestock barn, where the permanent cow pasture is. We are faced with this. I believe we can get a long and be good neighbors to each other, if we do not hurt each other financially mentally, or physically. I do not want the dog kennel because it will be destructive and harmful to our farm. I do not want the dog kennel because it will be noisy, annoying, disagreeable, discussing to people and live stock for a long time.


Larry Dill stated, I’m Larry Dill and I represent Lloyd Kyburz. One of the things that I want to make sure that you guys understood and you probably wont’ see this, but you won’t notice it when you look at the paperwork. The property, the farm that we are talking about is on that drawing dated 11/18 signed by Jim Milligan, survey. Immediately West of the house in that drawing is where the farm is that we are talking about. It puts it just a shade over or right at 183’ from the proposed kennel to the actual pasture where the cattle will be walking. I started out working for a local farmer that raised cattle and I have spent a lot of days and evenings trying to move cattle that were spooked and it is a nightmare. Dogs and cattle mortally fear dogs. They don’t have to see them, all they have to do is hear them. I’m sure and I don’t want to petitioners to have any doubt that they are going to run a fine operation. I have no doubt they will run a top notch operation and will perform exemplary. I have no reason to believe otherwise. Every kennel I have ever been in in my lifetime, at least one time or another during the day the dogs are barking from excitement and occasionally from stress and that I submit to you will translate poorly to cattle, pigs. Other livestock probably won’t bother, cattle will not respond well to dogs barking. I worked in Idaho when I was in college, the rangers out there told us what to fear. Everybody was afraid of the rattlesnakes, bears, and mountain lions, in fact we saw lots of them pretty close. They thing that they told us would kill us is a cow. In fact one of the guys that I worked with out there was missing for two days, he actually came upon a cow out in the woods, million of acres where no modern machines are to brought in. He ran into a cow out there who had a calf, his first thought was he was backing away from it, which worked for him, but he had a dog with him and that dog was going to bark at that cow. When the cow came after the dog the dog ran behind it’s master and he was hit a couple of times, but got up a tree and was there until they found him two days later. He might not have been so lucky there might now have been a tree there. My point is modern farm cattle are docile. They can be dangerous when they have calves, especially when the are stressed. My point is this kennel through no fault of the petitioners is going to change the environment there to where these cattle are going to be stressed. If you have been around cattle’s you know they will see a dog a half mile a way and they won’t quit paying attention to it, they may continue to graze, but you will see them looking until it is gone. This kennel, I submit that a man should be able to do what he wants his property with some exceptions. That is what this board is here for and I thank you guys for being here. We need to have some kind of harmony and consistently and the kennel will basically deprive the Kyburz the ability to safely raise cattle. It is going on 3 generations now. They have not occasionally not generally, but on a daily bases they have zealously looked after this livestock. The purpose it not just to keep the cattle safe, but to keep their property safe and keep their neighbor’s safe, and strangers safe. I submit that the kennel there will drastically impact the ability of the Kyburz to keep that fully under control. If they have to move the cattle, they got buildings there that will be diminished and useless. That is not going to look good for the community, not look good for this particular farm. My perception is it will be a loosing situation for everybody, but the people with the kennel. I do know there are alternatives, in fact I think it is a few miles away, there is piece of property for sale right now with a house and some land and an existing kennel and evidently from what he said earlier he was not aware of that. I’m sure that my client could probably direct him where that is if he is remotely interested.


President Jerry Thompson stated, please rap this up please.


Larry Dill stated, I already sense from being here tonight that there is going to be some neighborhood friction if this happens. I already sense it. I guess in a nutshell, my belief is that the use sought will substantially and permanently injurious to the historic and appropriate use of the adjoining property. The use of the property and the ability of the property will be affected by the noise and the stress caused to the livestock and I honestly believe that the use of the cattle should be preserved, and I think putting the dogs there will do that. It is an inappropriate change of the surrounding area and not in keeping with the nature use of that area. The natural best use of the area to allow the kennel to be put in there.


Robert Blamer stated, let me reply to the last one.


President Jerry Thompson stated, briefly.


Robert Blamer stated, much more briefly. First of all I suggest that the board look at the property that you have. I suggest you are worried about the property values I suggest that you take a look at how that farm looks. I then suggest that you go out there when the dogs are running up and down and including the dog that attacked me. It was a German Shepard and these other dogs. They are barking and one attacked me in the driveway. It didn’t bother the cows at all. I know how to handle dogs so it didn’t bother me either. It didn’t bother the cows at all and the dogs are loose all of the time. You might be very concerned about them running loose. There are more than just your dogs.


President Jerry Thompson stated, sir, let's address the board.


Robert Blamer stated, the kennel will be doubled caged and have a barrier fence, so the cows can not see the dogs. The dogs will be in concrete blocks kennel. They will only be out a few hours a day. As far as the sanitation will do more than the health department specifies. I don’t think the dogs that I will have there will equal the excess from one or two cows. Mine will be cleaned up. That is all I have to say.


President Jerry Thompson stated, thank you.


Someone asked, to come forwards (Could not hear who it was)


President Jerry Thompson stated, no you can not, you have rapped up already. Phil you can come forwards. We have other variances. I think we have heard ample amount of evidence and I think we are being repetition here.


Phil Vogel stated, I’m Phil Vogel and I’m with Vogel Real Estate. We have the property for sale and we are not the selling agent but we have it for sale for the Lafayette Bank and Trust Company. I don’t know and I think he asked you that question if any of you did go out and take a look at the property was at. One of the things that in working with the other realtor they wanted something that was in the country and it wasn’t next door to a residential neighborhood. They could get out into the country and not be too far out. Where they have this proposed kennel is actually in the woods and if you went out and took a look at it that the building that they’ve got is mostly set up in the woods. I just like to address a couple of things. When they talk about the noise and stuff I’m sure they have a concern, but I grew up for 35 years right beside Monticello Animal Hospital which is really closer than the neighbor’s to the East. The neighbor to the West is closer. I didn’t run into that. Some days you heard some barking. It wasn’t like that it was barking going on all of the time and I was within probably an eighth of a mile of that boarding kennel in Monticello at Monticello Animal Hospital. I think the one thing that he is willing to do is do what the board of health wants when they talk about the waste and the stuff like that. I’m sure that anytime you are in the country you are going to have potential livestock around and that is going to be anywhere we go in the county. I’m sure that is a concern, but that is going to be a potential no matter where it is. I would just like to say they tried to pick a house in the country that wasn’t too far out that was in an agriculture area and go from there.


President Jerry Thompson stated, no we are rapping this thing up. We have heard your point. No thank you.


Robert Blamer stated, I only have a question of the board. If I table this what happens.


Attorney Altman stated, it would be heard again at January’s meeting.


Robert Blamer asked, would these people come back again and testify?


Attorney Altman stated, yes, but they would have to come up with new ideas because we have heard most of everything.


Robert Blamer asked, that the board go look at the property and I want 5 minutes to decided if I want to table it or not.


President Jerry Thompson stated, you have 1 minute before I turn it over to the board. If they have questions fine if they don’t we are going to vote. You be thinking. Carol.


Carol Stradling stated, I would move that you table it and come back with some response to the questions on the noise and how he would approach or propose to deal with that. If the board decides to table it or Mr. Blamer decides to table it, I would like to see that he is a little more familiar with what the Board of Health requires. I would like to see a layout of the property, fences have been mentioned but I’m not looking at anything that has fence on it, what type, location, double fence, you mentioned. What all is that going to look like? What kind of construction are you going to do there? Will you have any screening outside the runs? Pretty much what the policy’s would be, like hours of operations, and the noise issue? If the board wishes to table it I would make a motion, if not then maybe Mr. Blamer would care to table it.


President Jerry Thompson asked, Gary, Dave? It has been moved and seconded to table this to January 15, 2004 meeting. All in favor signify by saying “aye” 3 ayes and 1 opposed.

****


#2268 Chicagoland Oil Company, LLC, DBA Smart Shop, Owner; Praveen K. Gulati, Applicant: The property is located on Part of Lot 12 in James C. Reynolds’ Fourth Addition, in the City of Monticello at 843 N. Main Street

Violation: None

Request: They are requesting a 4’ front setback variance to place a freestanding sign on the property.

President Jerry Thompson asked, and sir you are?

Praveen Gulati stated, I’m Praveen Gulati, I’m with the Chicagoland Company and we have the Citgo Smart shop on Main Street. We want to put a sign there.

President Jerry Thompson asked, Diann do you have anything on this?

Director Weaver stated, no. They have already talked to the city and kept in mind the widening of Main Street and they decided to do this. My understanding is that Monticello is behind this request and agree that this is the proper location.

President Jerry Thompson asked, does anyone care to address this variance either for or against?

Okay to the board. Any questions or comments?

Carol Stradling asked, how will it be situated in comparison with the existing sign?

Praveen Gulati stated, it is going to be 1’ away to the East Side.

Carol Stradling asked, so it is farther away from the road?

Praveen Gulati stated, yes.

Carol Stradling stated, from the existing sign.

Praveen Gulati stated, yes.

Carol Stradling stated, that was my main point you are not going any closer to the roadway.

Praveen Gulati stated, no, we are going to the East. We will be digging this out and putting a new sign further East.

President Jerry Thompson asked, is there anything else Carol?

Carol Stradling stated, that was it.

President Jerry Thompson asked, Gary, and Dave?

Without further discussion the board voted.

The Board finds the following:

1. That the building site is currently zoned B-2, General Business.

2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114.

3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.

4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.

5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.

6. That the request is for a 4’ front setback variance to place a freestanding sign on the property.

TRACT 1:

A part of Lot number 12 in James C. Reynolds’ Fourth Addition to the town, now the City of Monticello, Indiana, described as follows, to wit:

Beginning at the Northwest corner of said Lot; thence Southeasterly along the West line of said lot, 55 feet; thence East on a line parallel with the North line of said lot, a distance of 150 feet; thence Northwesterly on a line parallel with the West line of said lot, a distance of 55 feet; thence West along the North line of said lot to the place of beginning.

EXCEPT a part of lot number 12 in James C. Reynolds’ Fourth Addition to the town, now City of Monticello, Indiana, the plat of which is recorded in Deed Record 32, page 224, in the Office of the Recorder of White County, Indiana, described as follows: Beginning at the Northwest corner of said lot; thence North 89 Degrees 07 Minutes 23 Seconds East (assumed bearing) 18.38 feet along the South boundary of Fisher Street; thence South 43 Degrees 17 Minutes 13 Seconds West 18.01 feet to the East boundary line of Main Street; thence North 25 Degrees 09 Minutes 06 Seconds West 14.17 feet along said East boundary to the point of beginning.

TRACT 2:

A part of Lot number 12 in James C. Reynolds’ Fourth Addition to the town, now City of Monticello, Indiana described as follows:

Beginning at a point 55 feet Southeasterly of the Northwest corner of said lot number 12; thence Southeasterly along the West line of said lot, 54 feet; thence East on a line parallel with the North line of said lot, a distance of 150 feet; thence Northwesterly on a line parallel with the West line of said lot, a distance of 54 feet; thence West along the North line to the place of beginning.

COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located in the City of Monticello at 843 N. Main Street.

7. That the variance herein authorized and granted is not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make typical or recurrent the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said condition or situation of the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variance is based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variance under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.

The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 4 affirmative and 0 negative.


****

#2269 Sherry L. Croy; The property is located on Lots 98 & 99 in Turpie’s Addition, in the Town of Monon at 300 W. Monroe Street.

Violation: The dwelling was built out of compliance with the front setback.

Request: She is requesting a Requesting a 17’ rear setback variance to build an

addition onto the home and a 4’ front setback variance to bring the

existing home into compliance. Also, an 18’ front setback variance

to bring the existing detached garage into compliance.

President Jerry Thompson asked, and you are?


Sherry Croy stated, I’m Sherry Croy.


President Jerry Thompson asked, do you have anything you would like to present to the board?


Sherry Croy stated, the home was built in 1994 and I bought it in 1997.


President Jerry Thompson stated, please have a seat. Diann?


Director Weaver stated, as she stated the house was built prior to her purchasing the property. I did send the board a copy of the building permit and the site plan that was done at that time. I don’t know what has happened to keep it out of compliance. I don’t know the situation. It is not meeting setbacks. At the time it was built it was 30’ not 32’ like it is now.


Attorney Altman asked, it is 28’ right.


Director Weaver stated, according to the survey yes.


President Jerry Thompson asked, Dave do you have anything.


David Scott stated, when someone purchases a piece of property can we make it a policy so that the title people check with area plan to make sure that they are meeting setbacks. How can we do that? My motion is to not fine her because she bought it not knowing.


Attorney Altman stated, normally there is a mortgage survey that would take care of that. What it is, is an improvement location survey that the Mortgage Company requires. That usually sorts that thing out. The abstract people never review the improvements. Title insurance or abstracts never do that.


David Scott stated, then it should be the responsibility of the mortgage holder.


Attorney Altman stated, or the person that bought it. I don’t know why it was done this way, maybe the mortgage.


David Scott stated, I guess my argument is until I got involved with this board, if I went to go buy a piece of property I wouldn’t no more look to make sure that the setbacks.


President Jerry Thompson stated, you are right.


David Scott stated, my motion is that we do not fine her.


Steve Vanderipe stated, I have nothing to do with this, but I’m in Real Estate. The State law requires that a sales disclosure be filled out and there actually is a question there from the seller to the buyer that states the fact that if anything has been done, have any substantial additions or alterations done without a building permit. They are liable for any future.


David Scott asked, where did this come from?


Steve Vanderipe stated, this comes from the Indiana regulatory commission of real estate. It is required by law that any transaction in real estate this has to be filled out by the seller and initialed each answers and gives it to any potential. This was passed in 1995. The seller signs and the buyers sign at closure.


President Jerry Thompson asked, but the buyer would only see that at closing. They are required to offer this to the potential buyer.


David Scott asked, so this was in 1995?


Steve Vanderipe stated, in 1995 in was adopted as a State law. There is something to cover the buyer and there has been court cases in the past where they have answered this incorrectly and the buyer has went back to the seller.


David Scott stated, dealing with these transaction and file, I mean you sign papers like this and you don’t really.


Steve Vanderipe stated, I just wanted to let you know that was out there.


Director Weaver asked, that question on there has there been anything built without a building permit?


Steve Vanderipe stated, I will read it again. This is the actual state form, so it is consistent with 1995. Have any substantial additions or alterations been made without a required building permit. It also asked have you received any notice by any government agency effecting this property. It also asks you are there any violations of zoning, building codes, or restricted covenants. Are there any encroachments.


David Scott stated, you could get a building permit and not put it in the right spot.


Director Weaver stated, which is what has happened.


Carol Stradling stated, then it is a violation.


David Scott stated, the question would be asked from the seller to the buyer. The buyer is not going to say no.


Sherry Croy stated, my question would be if Terry Powell even knew that he was in violation. That would be what I would wonder about. When I ran into his mother, his wife’s son at the gas station and he said that they didn’t actually put it in, but I don’t know what company did put the building in. I wonder if they even knew they were in violation. Why wasn’t someone out there checking to make sure that it was up to code?


Gary Barbour stated, at that time we didn’t have a building inspector.


Steve Vanderipe stated, I belong to a board and we did a lot of investigations and we found over 50% of the transactions in Indiana to 1998 were done without this.


Carol Stradling stated, I will second the motion and I would add to it that the $500 fine was not in place at that time. We would have to retroactively go back and fine everybody. I appreciate the interest in doing that and keeping that before us, but I would move I would second the motion to not impose the fine on this owner at this time.


President Jerry Thompson stated, it has been moved and seconded to forego the fine on variance #2269. All in favor signify by saying “aye”. All opposed the same? All answered “aye”


President Jerry Thompson asked, is there anymore discussion? Anyone care to address the board? Back to the Board.


Carol Stradling asked, the garage that is 14’ off of Madison that would also be front wouldn’t it?


Director Weaver stated, yes.


Carol Stradling asked, so the variance is including that?


Director Weaver stated, yes. The garage was built before Area Plan. It was built in 1965.


President Jerry Thompson asked, Gary? Dave?


David Scott asked, did you hear anything from the neighbors to the North?


Director Weaver stated, not to my knowledge.


Sherry Croy asked, if we rebuilt we were thinking about taking that garage down and rebuilding it and I know I have to get a building permit, but would I have to then move the foundation of that garage?


Carol Stradling stated, you would have to apply for another variance.


Sherry Crow asked, would I build it on the same one or no?


Attorney Altman stated, if it was the same size you would. If the variance was approved you wouldn’t.


Sherry Croy stated, we were thinking about redoing that garage.


Attorney Altman stated, it would have to be the same size.


Carol Stradling asked, wouldn’t she have to get another variance?


Director Weaver stated, no we have covered it here.


Attorney Altman stated, the garage is covered by this variance.

Carol Stradling stated, so when we had the houses that could put up two walls at 50%, that is because it was previously brought into compliance. Even though they had the same foot print. They needed the variance because it had not yet been brought into compliance. We are bringing this into compliance at this point.


Attorney Altman stated, right. With the variance it would do that also.


President Jerry Thompson asked, Gary or Dave?


Without further discussion the board voted.


1. That the property is properly zoned R-2, One and Two Family Residential.


2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114.


3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.


4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.


5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.


6. That the request is for a 17’ rear setback variance to build an addition onto the home and a 4’ front setback variance to bring the existing home into compliance. Also, an 18’ front setback variance to bring the existing detached garage into compliance on lots 98 and 99 in Turpie’s Addition to the Town of Monon, White County, Indiana.

COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located in the Town of Monon at 300 W. Monroe Street.


7. That the variances herein authorized and granted are not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make reasonable practicable the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variances are based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variances under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.

The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 4 affirmative and 0 negative.


****


#2270 Jo Emmalene Irelan; The property is located on approximately .50 of an acre on the North edge of Monon at 8132 N. Meridian Road.
Violation: None

Request: She is requesting a 47’ front setback variance and a 32’ rear setback

variance to replace the existing front porch and to do an addition on

the back of the home.

President Jerry Thompson asked, anyone here representing this?

Tim Irelan stated, I’m Tim Irelan her son. She is not able to be here tonight. We are requesting to redo the front porch, redo the roof on the back half, and extend the wall out about 21’so we can enclose the back half.

President Jerry Thompson asked, Diann do you have anything?

Director Weaver stated, I have not had anything from any of the neighbor’s, but when I did go out to the property to get pictures, I did notice that they are already under construction. There has not been a permit issued on this.

Tim Irelan stated, basically some of that construction was done to get the old sagging part from falling down and then once it started it was re-bracing it and that Monday she went to get the building permit, she didn’t let us know that she didn’t have it. Next morning when I went out is when she said she had to get a variance.

President Jerry Thompson asked, you are her son and are you doing the work?

Tim Irelan stated, yes, I’m her son and I’m doing the work. It has been setting there for a month now waiting for her to make her mind up on what she was doing.

President Jerry Thompson asked, is there anyone here who cares to address the variance either for or against.

Carol Stradling asked, so was the porch there?

Tim Irelan stated, basically a roof over the top and it been setting there for 13 years and she basically let it go and it caved in.

Carol Stradling stated, so the porch roof was caving in. What part did you shore up?

Tim Irelan stated, we shored up the uprights to the supports because that is what collapsed. As we torn it down it fell down and we ended up putting up that Monday after we started re-roofing it and put the trusses up and then Tuesday we found out that she needed a variance. A miscommunication between me and her on getting the building permit. She went that afternoon and she didn’t let us know if she had it or not.

Director Weaver stated, it was October when she applied.

Tim Irelan stated, yes, I think it was. It has been setting there since then the way it is right now.

President Jerry Thompson asked, was there any response from anyone?

Director Weaver stated, no.

Carol Stradling asked, so you didn’t get a chance to go out there?

Director Weaver stated, I was out there today.

Carol Stradling asked, is that when you realized it was started?

Director Weaver stated, yes.

President Jerry Thompson asked, they voluntarily stopped the progress. You didn’t order it stopped?

Director Weaver stated, I had no idea that it was under construction. We didn’t issue a permit from the get go because we knew it wasn’t meeting the setbacks. We never gave them the okay to start construction.

President Jerry Thompson stated, I understand that, but they obviously volunteered to stop the work.

Director Weaver stated, there is no stop work order.

Tim Irelan stated, I’m the one that came in and applied for the permit, she went in on Monday and I stopped the work then and that is the way it has been.

President Jerry Thompson asked, Carol?

Carol Stradling stated, I guess if the roof is falling down over the door and then you want to get it out of there.

Attorney Altman stated, I suppose so, but however, this is a violation.

Tim Irelan stated, that is what we found out. My sister-in-law use to work for the Indiana Abstract. We talked to her the same day and that is what she told us. That is why we stopped all of the work.

Attorney Altman stated, we usually fine the contractor to be quite frank. Even family members.

Tim Irelan stated, I understand that. There was miscommunication on who was doing what and what we had and what we didn’t have.

Attorney Altman stated, I guess what I’m saying to you is recognize a break.

Gary Barbour stated, it is Christmas.

President Jerry Thompson asked, Dave, or Gary. I appreciate the fact that he stopped voluntarily. Gary your thoughts.

Gary Barbour asked, can I ask you what you do for a living?

Tim Irelan stated, I do a little bit of everything. Right now I am unemployed from A.O. Smith so I do this on the side.

Gary Barbour stated, just as long as you get an education on getting permits.

Tim Irelan stated, like I said there was miscommunication between my mother and I, if she got it or not until the next morning. That is when I found out she did not have it.

Director Weaver stated, let me clarify a little bit. Permit needs to be posted the whole time.

President Jerry Thompson asked, is there any other discussion?

Without further discussion the board voted.

The Board finds the following:

1. That the property is properly zoned A-1, Agricultural.

2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114.

3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.

4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.

5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.

6. That the request is for a 47’ front setback variance and a 32’ rear setback variance to replace the existing front porch and to do an addition on the back of the home on commencing at a point on the East line of the right-of-way of the Michigan City Division of the Chicago, Indianapolis and Louisville Railway Company Seven Hundred Seventy-six (776) feet North of the South line of Section Sixteen (16), Township Twenty-eight (28) North, Range Four (4) West, running thence East One Hundred Seventy (170) feet to the center of the public highway; thence South One Hundred Twenty (120) feet; thence West One Hundred Seventy (170) feet to the East line of said right-of-way; thence North on the East line of said right-of-way One Hundred Twenty (120) feet to the place of beginning, in Monon Township, White County, Indiana.

COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located on the North edge of Monon at 8132 N. Meridian Road.

7. That the variances herein authorized and granted are not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make reasonable practicable the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variances are based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variances under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.

The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 4 affirmative and 0 negative.

****

#2271 Vanderipe Builders, Inc.; The property is located on Lot 82 in Gingrich Second Addition, South of Monticello off of Freeman Road on Sheridan Road.

Violation: None

Request: They are requesting a 25’ front setback variance and a 11’ side setback variance to build a new home on the property.

President Jerry Thompson asked, sir?

Steve Vanderipe stated, I’m Steve Vanderipe present owner of that property and each adjoining property East and West of it. I currently live on Lot 81 and building a new home on lot 83 and building a home on lot 82 for resale. I don’t know if you remember me, but I think in January I had a variance meeting for lot 83 and it was a similar except I wanted 1’ from the front property line, which is Lake Freeman. This time I have gone 6’.

Director Weaver stated, you ran into a little problem there didn’t you.

Steve Vanderipe stated, yes, I did. I learned a valuable lesson.

Director Weaver stated, let me clarify the problem was not with us it was with SFLECC.

President Jerry Thompson asked, do you have anything on this Diann?

Director Weaver stated, no I don’t other than when you look at the pictures the bottom left picture is the new home that he has just recently constructed.

Steve Vanderipe stated, can I ask a question? On this form here it says setback variance 11’ side setback variance. Does that coralate with the survey of 8’ on each side? I’m not familiar with the way that is written.

Director Weaver stated, you are required to have an 8’ on one side with 10’ on the other. I’m not sure where that 11’ came from. I can’t answer that.

Steve Vanderipe stated, I didn’t know about it until I pulled this stuff out today and I started looking at that and I couldn’t remember what was code as far as setbacks on the sides and what I was actually requesting.

Director Weaver stated, you only need a 2’ setback on the side.

Steve Vanderipe stated, so this is over kill on the side here.

Director Weaver stated, I don’t know where we picked that up at.

Attorney Altman asked, how many bedrooms, what kind of siding?

Steve Vanderipe stated, 2 story, 3 bedrooms, same side as the other home there.

President Jerry Thompson asked, Gary, Dave or Carol?

Carol Stradling asked, the 25’ is from the lake side? How much property does SFLECC have before you get to the lake?

Steve Vanderipe stated, I would say approximate 90’ to 100’.

Carol Stradling asked, so you are quite a distance from the river?

Steve Vanderipe stated, yes.

Director Weaver stated, that is 80’ down.

Steve Vanderipe stated, right, this slope is not as sever as the rest of the high bank. This is probably not as steep.

Without further discussion the board voted.

The Board finds the following:

1. That the property is properly zoned L-1, Lake District

2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114.

3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.

4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.

5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.

6. That the request is for a 25’ front setback variance and a 11’ side setback variance to build a new home on Lot 82 in Gingrich Second Addition in Union Township, White County, Indiana.

COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located South of Monticello off of Freeman Road on Sheridan Road.

7. That the variances herein authorized and granted are not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make reasonable practicable the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variances are based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variances under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.

The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 4 affirmative and 0 negative.

****

President Jerry Thompson stated, I have a comment before we move on to the business. Not that I want to doubt everybody that walks into this room, but how do we know that was so and so son. He admitted to it yes, but.

Director Weaver stated, they are sworn in.

Carol Stradling asked what motivation would that have?

President Jerry Thompson stated, I understand that but I guess am I asking too much for this lady if she wasn’t going to be present could she have not called you or said someone was going to represent me. Most times we have someone. Am I worried about something that is not important?

Attorney Altman stated, I think it would not hurt, if an attorney or a realtor shows up, we pretty well know that they have a license. They would be in big trouble if they were doing something inappropriate. I think just somebody coming in off the street so to speak, I think it would really be a good thing to do. Someone is always going to say that they are sick and they sent in Bill or Sally. You are always going to get that song and dance. They can write up a little authorization.

President Jerry Thompson stated, probably nothing to be concerned about, but his mother could come in tomorrow morning and say that is not the way it was to have been.

Director Weaver stated, it is in their favor and not against them.

Carol Stradling stated, unless he is doing it, unless you get the kids doing it to the parent’s home and they don’t want to do anything with it.

Director Weaver stated, like I pointed out to Jerry they are sworn in.

Attorney Altman stated, the real thing is that you don’t know who they are.

President Jerry Thompson stated, no, I don’t.

Attorney Altman stated, we don’t have a picture of them, we don’t have anything.

You never do know and we have allowed, accommodated a lot of people, and just pretty well listen to a live body. I think it is a concern.

Carol Stradling stated, maybe what we can do is when they make the application, if it is not the property owner, then they need something notarized from the property owner.

Attorney Altman stated, I think it would be a real good step.

Carol Stradling stated, that is where it can come in the process, rather have them show up tonight.

Attorney Altman stated, I agree, however, you have to understand that there is always going to say oh I didn’t know about it.

Carol Stradling stated, then it wouldn’t matter here tonight, as long as we are sure that the property owner filed the application for the variance so who ever represents them or doesn’t represents them it is still.

Director Weaver stated, the application is signed and notarized.

President Jerry Thompson stated, if mom was here and he was speaking for her, that is something else. Business

David Scott stated, you have Mr. Shearer on here.

Director Weaver stated, I put that on there as a reminder for myself so we can talk about that.

David Scott asked, has he ever contacted you?

Director Weaver stated, she did contact me and I didn’t think to go by there. What we have if you remember we had an appeal from Richard L & Jennifer Shearer and I did tell her that we would discuss this tonight. She is waiting to hear what we decide. Their fine was removed they had put up a privacy fence, altered the privacy fence without the proper permit. Their fine was waived contingent that they get a permit and enclosed the back yard with the privacy fence and go 6’ from the alley. That was done in October and we gave them 60 days to have this done, which their time was up on December 15. To this date it has not been done and the reason it has not been done is because her husband went to jail. He went to jail November 7. She called me on December 9 and he had just been released on December 6. He has been out of jail since December 6 and did not believe that they could get this done before the 15th and was wondering what the situation would be. Dave Scott had already called me and gave me a heads up. That is what has happened. They only thing else was to come back to the board and ask the board what they want to do with it. I explained that to her.

David Scott stated, first of all I appreciate you guys going along with this I was trying to solve a neighborhood problem with this. They obviously are not interested in taking care of it, so what ever you wish.

Attorney Altman asked, so do they just need time Dave?

David Scott stated, if he can get over being drunk, he has his priorities mixed up anyway, so it doesn’t matter what we do.

Director Weaver stated, this is not the first time that we have had problems with him. I have dealt with them in the past.

Gary Barbour stated, well based on that, let's look at it this way. He fell on some hard times and got busted. This time of year you really kind of have a tough time digging holes in the ground to put a fence up.

Director Weaver stated, well on the other hand in October they wouldn’t have.

Gary Barbour stated, I don’t disagree with that, but I guess knowing how I’m with projects like that it doesn’t always get done the way. I know there are other people the same way. I suggest we give them more time, but this is the last.

Carol Stradling stated, they are not going to have the time until February or March.

Gary Barbour stated, I guess what I’m saying that if it is not done by the end of April too bad, so sad.

Director Weaver stated, too bad, so sad, then we impose the fine.

Gary Barbour stated, then we impose the $500 fine and be done with it.

David Scott asked, can you put more pressure on him and say if it is not done by April, it is going to be $500 plus.

Director Weaver stated, plus the $50 per month.

David Scott stated, the $50 per month.

Carol Stradling stated, he won’t come up with that anyway.

David Scott stated, no he won’t pay it anyway, so then what happens.

Director Weaver stated, then we could take him to court.

Attorney Altman stated, then we could get a judgement on him.

David Scott asked, would it be a financial one?

Attorney Altman stated, yes.

David Scott asked, if he doesn’t pay that.

Attorney Altman stated, go against the property.

Carol Stradling stated, okay Gary has a motion.

Gary Barbour stated, if he doesn’t have it done by the end of April he is fined the $500 and $50 for each month.

Director Weaver asked, so we aren’t going back to October?

Carol Stradling stated, if he doesn’t get it done by April it is the $500. They if they don’t get it done by the end of May it is $550.

David Scott stated, I second it.

President Jerry Thompson stated, all in favor signify by saying “aye”. All of those opposed.

Carol Stradling stated, can we have a little bit of a discussion. How much of a problem is this going to be for the town.

David Scott stated, it is not a problem.

Carol Stradling stated, I guess the other alternative that I would have would be that we charge them $250 now and then if they don’t have it again by end of April then it is up to the $500.

Gary Barbour stated, what I just heard you won’t get the $250. It is Christmas, let's give them a break.

Carol Stradling stated, I also wonder how much time, they were approved October 16 and how much time before that, by the time they came to the meeting they should have been ready to roll especially knowing they had a dead line.

Director Weaver stated, we sent out original letter to them August 21st.

President Jerry Thompson asked, are we going to move on the motion or modify it?

Carol Stradling stated, maybe one modification, that if they don’t do it by a certain time then the fence comes down.

David Scott stated, that is going to be worse.

Carol Stradling stated, that would be worse.

Gary Barbour stated, they want the fence up.

President Jerry Thompson stated, all in favor signify by saying “aye” and all of those opposed.

Everyone one said “aye”

President Jerry Thompson stated, the motion is carried.

Attorney Altman stated, we have a briefing scheduled on February 8, I’m not sure what that is set on that motion. That is when that is and we have an oral argument on the 20th. This is on the sign. Switzer vs. Indiana Beach is settled, this morning, there are still issues that don’t totally settle it. We are working with Judge Smith to get a different result on the variance. We are going to file a motion to correct error and ask for a stay of enforcement of the denial of the variance. That is back where we are.

Gary Barbour stated, now put that in regular terms.

Attorney Altman stated, the neighbors and the Indiana Beach have settled.

Carol Stradling asked, out of court?

Attorney Altman stated, yes. They were in lots of courts other than with us and they are settled. Obvious we have the judgement of the Judge Smith entered denying the variance. That is something that needs to be resolved someway different from the denial and that is what we are working on right now to do.

Carol Stradling asked, is that up to us or is that up to the Indiana Beach?

Attorney Altman stated, it is up to us to do and Indiana Beach.

Carol Stradling asked, are the results of the settlement made public?

Attorney Altman stated, no, and I don’t know. All I know is that they bought the property.

Carol Stradling stated, they did.

Attorney Altman stated, one other thing is the County Commissioners have distributed I presume that if you don’t have a copy we should get you a copy. A proposed change of the ordinance that the County Commissioners would like reference to this. We need to get them copies.

Director Weaver stated, two of them have copies. What effect does this have on the open door.

Attorney Altman stated, it will go away. The whole thing will go away.

President Jerry Thompson asked, is there anything else?

The meeting adjourned.

Respectfully submitted,

Gary Barbour, Secretary

Diann Weaver, Director

White County Area Plan Commission