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The White County Board of Zoning Appeals met on Thursday, February 19, 2004 at 7:30 p.m. in the Commissioners’ Meeting Room, Second Floor, County Building, Monticello, Indiana.

Members attending were David Scott, Carol Stradling, Jerry Thompson and David Stimmel. Also attending were Attorney Jerry Altman and Director Diann Weaver.

Visitors attending were: Connie Wiese, Tom Wiese, Bill Abbott, Chris Asif, Louis Hekking, Charles R. Mellon, Janet Rowe, Art Joseph, Wess Hicks, Dow Dellinger, Terry Patterson, Patricia A. Adkins, Nancy Glass and Mike Dilling (?)

The meeting was called to order by Vice President Carol Stradling and roll call was taken. David Scott made a motion to dispense with reading and approve the minutes of the December 18, 2003 meeting. Motion was seconded by David Stimmel and carried unanimously. Attorney Altman swore in all Board members and audience members.

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#2275 Terry L. Patterson, Owner; L. Dowal Dellinger, Applicant; The property is located on .236 of an acre, West of Lowe’s Bridge at 6139 and 6147 N. Harding Court. Tabled from the January 15, 2004 meeting.

Violation: None
Request: They are requesting a 29.50’ front setback variance and a 1’ rear setback variance to build a storage building.


Vice President Carol Stradling stated, I believe that you are here to represent this request.


Dow Dellinger stated, I’m Dow Dellinger, and I’m here with the property owner Terry Patterson. We have a couple of things that we want to show you before we get started. (He is passing out papers and some pictures to the board.) The proposed building was for 60’ and we are changing it to 54’ due to construction costs.


Attorney Altman stated, the survey shows it at 60’ and it being 4’ from the line.


Dow Dellinger stated, it is just going to be centered there on the lot, it will still be at the 4’.


Attorney Altman stated, I’m just trying to establish the record. We have exhibits A-K. Will you


read that into the record.


Dow Dellinger stated, we have from the Golden Beach trailer park, Monticello, IN. I, Mark Klaczak President of the Golden Beach Trailer Park, have seen and read all paper work for Terry Patterson on lot 9. Along with myself and all board members, have agreed it meets all requirements of Golden Beach rules and regulations. With this we grant him permission to build said building on lot 9. (54’ x 40’) If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me.


I think the pictures are beneficial and those might be able to see. I think this might be beneficial to see the back property line. (He is showing them the pictures that they brought in.)


Terry Patterson is going over each of the pictures with the board.


Attorney Altman stated, if anybody else wants to see these pictures, please come forward.


Mr. Patterson is going over all of the pictures and describing where each building sets and where the new building is going to go. Showing the board where the building is going to set in regards to the other buildings.


Dow Dellinger stated, I think you can pretty much see that there are similar buildings built in that area. We are basically asking to put that same building in line with the other buildings. It is very consistent with the other structures.


Vice President Carol Stradling asked, is there anyone else, who cares to address the board? Jerry are you up to speed. Do any of the board members have any questions?


Vice President Carol Stradling stated, I have a couple of questions. You are using these for storage. Do you reside down there or is this just general storage?


Terry Patterson stated, I own property in Golden Beach trailer park.


Vice President Carol Stradling stated, that is pretty typical. They have trailers and then they have big storage buildings to hold the stuff. If it is going to be 6’ shorter, you mentioned that you were going to center it. Could I ask that you push it to the South, that would leave the property it keeps it a little further away from the roadway. Is that a possibility?


Terry Patterson stated, I could do that if you wish, but the reason I’m centering it, is just because out here we are already in compliance with the Trailer court rules as far as the drive. I just think it would look more uniformed if it were centered in between the two. It is already going to be


moved 3’ South from this actually drawing anyway. I just think it would look more uniform. It will be dead centered. We are already going to be 3’ to the South from this drawing. We are already in compliance with the trailer park.


Vice President Carol Stradling stated, so the roadway is 30’ and then you are 2 ½’ off of that and there is not much traffic down there.


Terry Patterson stated, no it is a dead end that’s it.


Vice President Carol Stradling asked, are there any more questions?


Attorney Altman asked, what do you store in that?


Terry Patterson stated, summertime there will be a snow mobile trailer, boat trailers, lift, and my boats. All personal use.


Discussion among the board members.


Director Weaver asked, do you know how tall the building is going to be?


Terry Patterson stated, the walls are 10’ tall and there are 3 ½’ gables, it will be less than 14’ tall total.


Without further discussion the board voted.


The Board finds the following:


1. That the property is properly zoned R-2, One and Two Family Residential.


2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114.


3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.


4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.


5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.


6. That the request is for a 29.50’ front setback variance and a 1’ rear setback variance to build a storage building on property commencing at the Southwest corner of the Southeast quarter of Section 28, Township 28 North, Range 3 West in Liberty Township, White County, Indiana; thence North 89 Degrees 50 Minutes 57 Seconds East 459.56 feet; thence North 00 Degrees 09 Minutes 51 Seconds West 536.50 feet to the point of beginning;

Thence South 89 Degrees 50 minutes 57 Seconds West 117.52 feet; thence North 34 Degrees 07 Minutes 22 Seconds East 141.85 feet; thence North 11 Degrees 16 Minutes 55 Seconds West 18.80 feet; thence North 48 Degrees 07 Minutes 07 Seconds East 22.54 feet; thence North 89 Degrees 55 Minutes 51 Seconds East 24.41 feet; thence South 00 Degrees 09 Minutes 51 Seconds East 150.63 feet to the point of beginning, containing 0.236 of an acre.

COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located East of Lowe’s Bridge at 6139 and 6147 N. Harding Court.

7. That the variances herein authorized and granted are not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make reasonable practicable the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variances are based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variances under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.

The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 4 affirmative and 0 negative.


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#2276 Town of Chalmers; The property is located on 0.02 and 0.037 acres just South of the Town of Chalmers on the West side of the State Road 43. Tabled from the January 15, 2004

meeting.

Violation: None

Request: They are requesting a 60’ front setback variance to replace a meter building for the Chalmers Sewer System.

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#2277 Louis H. Hekking; The property is located on Lot 24 in Plat A in O’Connor’s Riverside Addition East of Monticello at 474 E. Sunnyside Trail.

Violation: None

Request: He is requesting a 22’ rear setback variance to put a mobile home on the property.

Vice President Carol Stradling asked, you are representing? You are Mr. Hekking?

Christina Asif stated, I’m his daughter and I’m going to stand up with him.

Vice President Carol Stradling stated, I just read the description that was advertised. Do you have anything that you would like to add?

Louis Hekking stated, not really, I just need a home.

Director Weaver asked, the home that was there burnt?

Christina Asif stated, yes, it was a total loss. It was 12’ x 65’. The one he has purchased is 14’ x 70’.

Vice President Carol Stradling stated, it says 14’ x 66’ on the survey, so I’m glad you said that instead of 70.

Attorney Altman asked, Christina did your dad live there before.

Christina Asif stated, yes my dad and I just had to move back in with him because of his health and my daughter.

Attorney Altman asked, is this on the sewer system yet?

Christina Asif stated, no.

Vice President Carol Stradling asked, did we get any fan mail?

Director Weaver stated, no I did not receive anything.

Vice President Carol Stradling asked, does anyone else have anything that they would like to add?

President Jerry Thompson asked, is it a new mobile home?

Christina Asif stated, it is a 2000 mobile.

Without further discussion the board voted.

The Board finds the following:

1. That the property is properly zoned R-2, One and Two Family Residential.

2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114.

3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.

4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.

5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.

6. That the request is for a 22’ rear setback variance to put a mobile home on Lot 24 in Plat A in O’Connor’s Riverside Addition in Union Township, White County, Indiana.

COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located East of Monticello at 474 E. Sunnyside Trail.

7. That the variance herein authorized and granted is not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make typical or recurrent the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said condition or situation of the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variance is based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variance under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.

The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 4 affirmative and 0 negative.

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#2278 William L. & Betty J. Abbott;

Violation: This mobile home has already been placed on property in White County.

Request: They are requesting a Special Exception to bring a 1961 mobile home into compliance with Section 12.00, Article 12.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance.

William Abbot stated, I’m Mr. Abbot and I was at the other meeting for the same thing.


Vice President Carol Stradling stated, Mr. Abbot could you speak up.


William Abbot stated, I was at the other meeting for the same thing. The trailer wasn’t brought in from any other county. I moved it from Zion Bethel Church to this piece of property. I did buy, and I did not set this mobile home up to live in. I used it for a camper until I decided to move there and live in it for a year, until our house is built. We want to put a modular in there. I didn’t know I had to have a permit to set it there. We have got our house sold. I already got my sewer permit as soon as the weather let's go and Bob Braaksma looked at the trailer. As soon as I have him re-inspect it for a couple of things that needed done. I’m sorry about the violation. If I would have known that I would have done the proper things.


Vice President Carol Stradling stated, you got the mobile home from Zion Bethel.


William Abbott stated, yes. (Can not hear what is being said.)


Attorney Altman stated, you bought it from Lazy Acres lot #5. It says that it is close to Miller’s tree farm.


William Abbott stated, that is where I moved it.


Director Weaver stated, that is where he moved it too.


Attorney Altman asked, where did you move it from?


William Abbott stated, where the address is. It was by Zion Bethel.


Attorney Altman stated, I don’t see the address here.


William Abbott stated, you go through the dip and turn left and there is a trailer park back there.


President Jerry Thompson asked, is this your first experience with mobile homes?


William Abbott stated, yes. I really like a house, but I have to live in this until we get our house.


President Jerry Thompson asked, how long have you been a resident of White County?


William Abbott stated, my entire life.


Attorney Altman asked, how long is that?


William Abbott stated, 46 years.


Attorney Altman stated, that is a long while.


David Scott asked, is this mobile home just temporary?


William Abbott stated, yes.


David Scott asked, what are you anticipating, how long?


William Abbott stated, I’m going to tear the mobile home down, the addition that I have on the front I want to use as a shed. (Can not hear Mr. Abbott)


Attorney Altman asked, who did you buy the mobile home from?


William Abbott stated, I had it given to me.


Attorney Altman asked, who gave it to you then?


William Abbott stated, the guy listed on the title. (Can not heae Mr. Abbott)


Director Weaver stated, Darrel Combs if I understand him.


Attorney Altman stated, I can’t see anything on there that says where it came from.


William Abbott stated, if I had known I would have taken care of it. I have got our house sold and I have to live in this until we get our house.


Vice President Carol Stradling asked, so the house that you sold was at 326 N. Railroad?


William Abbott stated, yes.


Vice President Carol Stradling stated, I’m looking at a letter that says that you have two mobile homes located there.


William Abbott stated, we tore that down and it was not mine, it was the neighbors. He tore that out.


Director Weaver stated, he did go to the APC also for have more than one home on the property. They did waive the fine because he has been very cooperative and worked with us. He did have to file for the age of the home. At the time the original letter was sent out, I didn’t know the age of the homes.


Vice President Carol Stradling stated, so your intent is to just live in this while you build your home.


William Abbott stated, yes, we are going to put a double wide in there. We have this place sold and as soon as we sign the contract with them I can get a loan pay this place off and get another money to put a double wide in there, so it may not set there a year. I’m just giving myself that much time. I may tear it down next week. After I set the double wide in there. I’ll have to come and get permits. Right now we need to live here until we get our doublewide set in.


Vice President Carol Stradling stated, so essentially what you are asking is just to leave this setting here for a year, so you have a place to live while you are working on getting your double wide.


David Scott asked, can we do a temporary thing, like give him two years or something on that line? I was looking over this inspection and there are a couple of things here that need to be done. Is there a follow-up done?


Director Weaver stated, he will have to have Bob Braaksma go back and re-inspect it and he will have to do a follow up report. He will have to get me a follow up report on it.


President Jerry Thompson asked, is this connected now?


William Abbott stated, no I just have a plug in to the electric pole to the meter. I’ve got everything there to hook it up. As soon as you let me know, I will run the wire around and hook up the fuse box and every thing. I have Don Stearns and he is going to hook all of that up for me.


David Scott asked, if we give him a temporary permission of two years to have this thing gone, how do we police that this will be taken off? If he were bringing this in to live in permanently I would have a hard time granting this because I wouldn’t want that in my neighborhood. The inside is nice, but the outside would have to improve greatly if it isn’t going to be taken out.


William Abbott stated, I have siding to put on it when I get it all set up. I have great siding to put on it.


Director Weaver stated, once it is in there, that is something that I will have to keep tract of. John Rains also helps me keep track of those things. He has an interest in these old mobile homes as well.


William Abbott stated, there is a 30’ x 10’ shed there for lawn mowers.


President Jerry Thompson asked, how long has this been setting here?


William Abbott stated, it was there all summer. I haven’t had it hooked up or nothing. We stayed in it on the weekends a couple of times. We have worked on the place up there trying to get it cleaned up. As soon as I get the other home, it will be gone. I don’t believe in trashing the place, I believe in keeping it nice.


Vice President Carol Stradling asked, how many neighbors are out there?


Director Weaver stated, at least one or two to the North and one to the South.


William Abbott stated, my cousin lives on the one side and a cousin on the other side. The rest is all mostly wooded.


Vice President Carol Stradling stated, so you own the lot.


William Abbott stated, I own the 10 acres there.


Vice President Carol Stradling stated, you have the siding to put on and you have everything lined up to do what you need to do. How long do you anticipate taking to get the mobile home to meet the inspection for Bob Braaksma?


William Abbott stated, about 2 weeks.


Vice President Carol Stradling stated, 2 weeks.


William Abbott stated, I have to put the skirting on, run the wire, and I want to check all of the wiring and make sure it is all up to snuff. I don’t want to burn up. I understand the safety. I also have to put the thing over the furnace there. Bob has given me everything that I need to do. It will take about 2 weeks.


Vice President Carol Stradling stated, that would determine when you get the double wide in.


William Abbott stated, I’m going over there to get a loan and if I get the loan I will just tear this one down. I just need this to live in.


David Scott asked, so there is no well or septic on this property now?


William Abbott stated, no. I have the permits to do all of that. I was going to do it, but I needed to know if I can put this here. I don’t want to put a bunch of money into something and you can’t use it.


Vice President Carol Stradling stated, you sold your house on railroad.


William Abbott stated, yes, to my wife’s cousin. They are to move in the first of next month.


Vice President Carol Stradling stated, if we approve this tonight then you can move in the same time.


William Abbott stated, yes. I want to be the double wide in as quick as possible. I know I’ll get a loan. The reason I didn’t before was that I have two properties and now I have this one sold.


Vice President Carol Stradling asked, does anyone else have anything to add to this special exception?


Attorney Altman stated, with not having a septic system, you need to put a condition on that he has to have one or get something there to have pumped.


Director Weaver stated, we won’t give him a permit until that is done.


President Jerry Thompson stated, that will depend on Braaksma’s inspection on whether it is livable or not.


Director Weaver stated, it says right there that another inspection is needed after the electric, water and hooked up. You can’t hook the water up with a septic.


David Stimmel stated, I don’t understand how we can approve a special exception without Braaksma’s final inspection.


President Jerry Thompson stated, it would be pending his report.


Attorney Altman stated, it is so pending the well, and septic be put in and pumped. I can understand in this kind of weather, you might not be able to put a septic in right now.


William Abbott stated, I do that for a living.


Attorney Altman asked, Diann, do you know if there are any restrictions with being frozen or what have you to put that in?


Director Weaver stated, I have no idea.


William Abbott stated, I put in septic tanks and leach beds. That is what I do. As soon as the ground thaws out I can put it in. I could put it right now.


President Jerry Thompson asked, so you are familiar with the inspections once it is put in?


William Abbott stated, yes.


David Scott asked, have you had the soil test done on the ground?


William Abbott stated, yes. I have it right here.


Attorney Altman asked, can we see that please?


They are currently going over the papers that he gave them.


Attorney Altman is reading the soil testing paperwork to the board.


Vice President Carol Stradling stated, board, we have two issues. One is the granting of the special exception and two the violation before us.


Director Weaver stated, you only have the one. The other one went before the last board meeting.


President Jerry Thompson stated, Diann pending the approval of all proper authorities before we address the fine.


Vice President Carol Stradling asked, do you want to address that before the fine?


President Jerry Thompson stated, I make a motion that this special exception be subject to all proper inspections of the water, facilities itself.


David Scott asked, what about the time limit.


President Jerry Thompson stated, to me it is a year. We never in my experience, I’m not saying we can’t change it, but we have never set up a specific timetable that I recall.


Attorney Altman stated, I guess since he is not occupying we never have said they couldn’t.


Vice President Carol Stradling stated, if he has the siding already and he resides and we make his moving into contingent upon residing it and meeting the proper re-inspection for well, septic, and smoke detectors. Then we have covered it and if it is a year or two or five, I’m not sure I understand your time frame there. If it is resided….


President Jerry Thompson asked, does it really matter to this board if it is resided or not?


Vice President Carol Stradling stated, if it is going to be there for two years, I’d like to have it resided, but if it only going to be there temporary than, he already has the siding. That is my feelings. It doesn’t have to be resided if he is going to get out of it real quick. I know how things like this get and you could be there another 10 years.


Director Weaver stated, I have to comment. We did pass a mobile home one time and those people caught so much havoc that they ended up pulling it out before they even moved in it. He put a double wide in.

Vice President Carol Stradling stated, your neighbors are your relatives, so if they move you out then you are in big trouble.


David Scott stated, I really don’t have a problem with him living in it for 6 months and then getting a modular and getting rid of it. I don’t care if he even sides it, but I don’t know how you police all of this and on the other side of that, I sure would hate to have that next to my house for the next 10 years.


Vice President Carol Stradling asked, was there a motion Jerry?


President Jerry Thompson stated, I kind of mumbled it. The special exception would be approved pending all proper inspections, water, sewage, well, electric, smoke detectors.


Attorney Altman stated, so leave it there for 2 years.


Vice President Carol Stradling stated, if he sides it, it doesn’t matter about the years, but if he doesn’t two years is too long.


Attorney Altman stated, you have got to understand he has 10 acres and it is going to be there.


President Jerry Thompson stated, I’m not comfortable going out 2 years. I don’t mind a year, but 2 years.


William Abbott stated, I think so too. I will have it out of there as quick as I can.


President Jerry Thompson asked, what do you think Dave and Dave?


David Stimmel stated, I agree either to the end of the year or 6 months something like that or 10 months or what ever you want to call it. Surely by the end of the year.


Attorney Altman stated, why not split it say a year and a half.


David Stimmel stated, I would not do that.


Vice President Carol Stradling stated, it has already been there all summer and you are anxious to get done with it. Maybe we can help you along there and say a year to get the double wide in there and can we amend the motion Jerry to say, contingent upon all inspections, and it doesn’t have to be resided as long as it is out of there in a year. So I move that we pass the special exception with the contingent upon a re-inspection, it does not need to be sided as long as it is removed within a year.


President Jerry Thompson stated, I second that.


Vice President Carol Stradling stated, all of those in favor signify by saying “aye” and all of those opposed. 3 yes and 1 no.


Without further discussion the board voted.


The Board finds the following:

1. That the property is properly zoned A-1, Agricultural.


2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114.


3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.


4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.


5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.


6. That the request is for a Special Exception for a 1966 Mobile Home.


7. That the special exception herein authorized and granted is not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make typical or recurrent the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said condition or situation of the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said special exception is based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 12.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said special exception under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.


Attorney Altman stated, there were 4 votes cast and 2 votes vote that the, I mean one vote says that the variance should not be granted, however, it indicates a special exception shall be granted contingent upon proper re-inspection of well, septic, electric and other deficiencies and remove within one year. 1 vote indicates that it should be granted and again subject to the same conditions as I just read. 1 vote says that subject to conditions and the 4th vote is it should be, but based upon re-inspection and deficiency brought to code and water and septic brought to code. One-year time limit based upon installation of new home. You have got to get it all up to code and right away. You need to get a building permit. Subject to those conditions. Now we are up to the fine.


The special exception was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 3 affirmative and 1 negative.


Vice President Carol Stradling stated, we are now up to the fine. You were saying Jerry.


President Jerry Thompson stated, you have a company name, business name that you go by. What do you go by?


William Abbott stated, Abbott excavating.


President Jerry Thompson asked, how long have you been in business?


William Abbott stated, since 1962.


President Jerry Thompson asked, always in White County.


William Abbott stated, yes, and we have been in Cass County and Lafayette.


President Jerry Thompson stated, I’m in favor of the $500 fine, due to the fact this is kind of in line with the type of work that he has been doing over the years.


William Abbott stated, I have never….


Attorney Altman stated, the board is discussing this now and we have your imput. Is this a motion?


Vice President Carol Stradling stated, no this is discussion.


David Stimmel stated, I agree with Jerry on this for as long as he has been in business. This is pretty important.


Vice President Carol Stradling stated, the only thing that I would have to add is that he has lots of other permits and he has went to lots of other agencies, it doesn’t seem like he is trying to skirt things. A lot of people don’t know that you need to go get a moving permit to move that mobile home down the road.


President Jerry Thompson stated, really you don’t. We don’t issue permits for down the road.


Vice President Carol Stradling stated, we don’t, but you have to have one to move it down the road.


President Jerry Thompson stated, yes you do, but that is not ours.


Vice President Carol Stradling stated, that is not ours, and I guess I could see where that could be confused.


David Scott stated, I don’t know that he is in the business of moving mobile homes or setting up homes.


Vice President Carol Stradling stated, Mr. Abbott, we are going to discuss this.


David Scott stated, he isn’t in the construction business as far as that goes.


Vice President Carol Stradling stated, I would move that we would adjust the fine to $300. I don’t want to remove it completely.


David Scott stated, I would just see him spend the money fixing the place up.


President Jerry Thompson stated, as we move on to variance 2279, it states here that he is requesting a special exception for an excavating business. An excavating business, this is strange territory.


Vice President Carol Stradling stated, I don’t know what kind of permits you need to get. He wasn’t putting the septic in there yet.


Director Weaver stated, a lot of excavating companies does put in foundations as well.


Vice President Carol Stradling stated, he wasn’t putting in a foundation in yet.


President Jerry Thompson stated, yes, but how long has it been there, we decided things earlier. It didn’t just arrive.


Vice President Carol Stradling stated, no it didn’t.


Director Weaver stated, the way this violation came about was that John Raines saw it.


David Scott stated, I don’t think so.


Several talked at once.


David Scott stated, I guess I would, but I don’t like it, but I will second Carol’s motion to drop the fine to $300.


Vice President Carol Stradling stated, so we have a motion and a second anymore discussion? Are we ready to vote? All of those in favor of the $300 fine say “aye” any opposed “aye”

The fine was passed 3 to 1.


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#2279 William L. & Betty J. Abbott; The property is located on 10.00 acres, approximately a half of a mile North of County Road 700 North on the West side of County Road 1100 East.

Violation: None

Request: They are requesting a Special Exception to have an excavating business on the property.

Vice President Carol Stradling asked, once again Mr. Abbott are you representing this request?

William Abbott stated, yes.

Vice President Carol Stradling asked, do you have anything else to add?

William Abbott stated, no, if I’m going to live there I need to have the business I thought it should be zoned business.

Vice President Carol Stradling stated, this will not change the zoning, this will just allow you to have.

William Abbott stated, to have my business there.

Vice President Carol Stradling asked, will you be storing equipment there?

William Abbott stated, yes, backhoe, dozer and bobcat. I have my pipes and material there. That was part of the reason for buying it out in the country, to keep the stuff out of town.

Vice President Carol Stradling asked, are you planning on putting up a structure to house this equipment?

William Abbott stated, yes, I have the proposed building in the paperwork there. It is on the survey there. That will come later after I get my house.

David Scott asked, is this zoned properly for a special exception for a construction business?

Director Weaver stated, it is zoned agriculture and we have in the past granted special exceptions for excavating businesses.

David Scott stated, I see that you have a proposed building here, the equipment will be inside most of the time.

William Abbott stated, yes.

President Jerry Thompson asked, so if this is granted tonight you are going to move the business on that location right away.

William Abbott stated, yes, more or less.

Attorney Altman asked, where is your equipment now?

William Abbott stated, it is setting at my cousin’s house.

Vice President Carol Stradling asked, are there anymore comments either for or against? Does the board want to vote?

Without further discussion the board voted.

The Board finds the following:

1. That the property is properly zoned A-1, Agricultural.

2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114.

3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.

4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.

5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.

6. That the request is for a Special Exception to have an excavating business on that part of the Northeast Quarter of the Southeast Quarter of Section 20, Township 28 North, Range 2 West in Cass Township, White County, Indiana described by: Commencing at the Northeast corner of the Southeast Quarter of the above said Section 20; thence South 01 Degrees 07 Minutes 14 Seconds East along the section line 329.40 feet to the point of beginning; thence South 01 Degrees 07 Minutes 14 Seconds East 329.40 feet; thence South 89 Degrees 51 Minutes 20 Seconds West 1322.90 feet; thence North 01 Degrees 04 Minutes 31 Seconds West 329.40 feet; thence North 89 Degrees 51 Minutes 20 Seconds East 1322.64 feet to the point of beginning, containing 10.00 acres, more or less.


COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located in Cass Township approximately a half of a mile North of County Road 700 North on the West side of County Road 1100 E.

7. That the special exception herein authorized and granted is not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make typical or recurrent the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said condition or situation of the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said special exception is based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said special exception under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.

The special exception was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 4 affirmative and 0 negative.

****

#2280 Patricia A. Adkins & Kenneth S. Turpin; The property is located on Lot 47 in Gingrich Addition, South of Monticello at 5307 S. Gingrich Court.

Violation: None

Request: They are requesting a 24’ front setback variance and an 8’ South side setback variance to replace the existing home on the property.

Vice President Carol Stradling asked, you are?

Patricia Adkins stated, I’m Patricia Adkins. I want to rebuild a cabin on the foundation that is there.

David Scott asked, you want to leave the existing foundation?

Patricia Adkins stated, and just build right on it.

Director Weaver stated, I did have concerns about that when I went out and saw the property. If you look with your pictures that you have. I do have a copy of the building code that was provided to me by the building inspector. The South wall if this is approved, the South wall will have to be fire wall and so will the North wall in the structure to the South of them will also have to be a fire wall, which means no windows, no doors, that type of thing.

David Scott asked, did you hear anything from the people on lot 46 on this.

Patricia Adkins stated, they are here.

Vice President Carol Stradling asked, did you understand what Diann indicated? Where your two houses adjoin both walls would have to have firewalls put in. It would be the South wall of your home and the North wall of your home. According to our building codes.

David Scott asked, are you going to tear the existing house down.

Patricia Adkins stated, we wanted to.

There is discussion among the board.

They are currently looking at all of the pictures together.

President Jerry Thompson stated, he has a question here.

Vice President Carol Stradling stated, I do have a comment on the firewall here. It would essentially be wherever your walls are within 6’ of each other. That would need to be firewalls on both sides.

Director Weaver stated, doesn’t have to be the your entire North side.

Tom Wiese stated, right there where our shed is, it is concrete block wall up to the roof. It is a flat roof. Now does that and there are no windows or anything in that area there.

Attorney Altman stated, that would be up to the building inspector. To do that and you may have to do something to your roof there.

Director Weaver stated, I will be more than happy to give you a copy of this.

Vice President Carol Stradling asked, can we leave that up to the building inspector?

Attorney Altman stated, what it is saying is that the code says this and they must do that.

Director Weaver stated, right.

Connie Wiese stated, I’m Connie Wiese so you are saying that because they are building a new home we have to a newly roofed, a newly sided cottage we are going to have the expense of putting in a fire wall.

Director Weaver stated, I’m not going to say that you are going to have the expense. My understanding from the Building Inspector is they will have the expense.

Patricia Adkins asked, what is the firewall?

Director Weaver stated, that I can not answer. I won’t even attempt to go there.

Vice President Carol Stradling stated, from what I understand sometimes it is just additional layers of drywall. That is just what on one experiences that I’m aware of, but it really is up to the building inspector to explain the codes. It doesn’t mean have to redo the whole outside of your house. He would really have to answer that. I don’t want you, until you talk to him assume that your house is going to have this metal wall.

President Jerry Thompson asked, when was yours built?

Tom Wiese stated, we remodeled it 3 years ago. What we did was raise the roof.

Connie Wiese stated, the permit just allowed us to raise the roof. It was at my height. Then we just raised the roof.

President Jerry Thompson asked, is there a chance it could already be acceptable?

Attorney Altman stated, it probably isn’t a firewall, maybe, but it probably wasn’t specifically to do that.

Connie Wiese stated, we just put on a new roof on the shed and we extended the walls. When you look at where our shed is at the back of the house. Are you going any deeper back than it is now?

Patricia Adkins stated, no it is going on the same foundation.

Connie Wiese stated, so our home is not within 6’ of what you are building.

Attorney Altman stated, the shed is.

Connie Wiese stated, well

Attorney Altman stated, what I’m saying is. Looking at the survey it says the distance between that and their property line is 6’. If you project that little line from their boundary, your house is within 6’ of that.

Vice President Carol Stradling stated, we can do a couple of things and we are spending a lot of time talking about the fire wall and what that would entail and I’m not sure that you can get a real good answer tonight. We could vote on it and pass it contingent be able to meet that approval or we could table it until we have a determination.

David Stimmel stated, Mrs. Wiese stated that they had just remodeled it. I think there is a question on whether you want to proceed. It sounds like tabling it is the best thing.

Director Weaver stated, let me add one thing. I don’t know when they did their work or their remodeling, we only had a building inspector since Mid 2001, so they may not been able to do what they did had it been under the jurisdiction of the building inspector. You are probably under the jurisdiction of the building inspector. Do you understand what I am saying? I don’t know that, so that you are aware of that.

Patricia Adkins stated, we had a builder and we were to have started in October. I have stored all of this furniture for $65.00 a month. It wouldn’t be worth it staying and staying there. I’ve have got to get something decided one way or another, or I will just put the wall back up and let it go. It is too much of a hassle.

Vice President Carol Stradling asked, did you and the contractor talk to the building inspector to decide what you want to do.

Patricia Adkins stated, he came up here and they said he couldn’t do anything.

Attorney Altman stated, I understand, but you can get some answers for you and your neighbor here about how much you have to have a firewall.

Connie Wiese stated, we were in favor of what they wanted to do.

Attorney Altman stated, you have questions that need answered and we are saying go do that and come back next month.

David Scott stated, if you are under major construction, is there a way you can redesign the house out here and take this away from the property. I don’t like property built on property lines.

Nancy Glass stated, I’m Nancy Glass, I’m a licensed real estate broker.

Attorney Altman stated, you need to get the answer to that from the building inspector. That is what we are saying. We do not have that information and therefore everybody needs to do that and come back next month.

David Scott stated, you haven’t thought about that. If you are going to do major construction anyway maybe come 6’ off of the line and doing something different. Is that a possibility?

Several talking at once. They are going over pictures.

Vice President Carol Stradling stated, I think there might be some other solutions, but we don’t have here tonight because of the fire wall issue. I think you have gotten some ideas from Dave and Dave. There should be some way to work it out, at least with this group.

President Jerry Thompson stated, if you move it, you can still have your windows. I know windows are important to you.

Attorney Altman stated, so right now you want to table this. You need to get the answers you need. Thank you.

****

#2281 Danny J. Clark; The property is located on Lots 44 and 45, East of Lowe’s Bridge at 6163 N. Lakeshore Court.

Violation: Built a 10’ x 20’ deck on the front of the home and an 8’ x 8’ shed in 1999 without a permit.

Request: He is requesting a 20’ front setback variance to build an attached garage onto the existing home.

Vice President Carol Stradling asked, you are?

Danny Clark stated, I’m Danny Clark.

Vice President Carol Stradling asked, do you have anything that you would like to add to that description?

Danny Clark stated, no, the reason I want to put the garage closer to the line is that my septic tank and leach bed is there. I can’t move it back any farther. It will be in violation of my septic tank.

Vice President Carol Stradling asked, so there is no garage at this point?

Danny Clark stated, no.

Vice President Carol Stradling asked, is there a deck on the front of the home?

Danny Clark stated, yes.

Vice President Carol Stradling asked, when was that built?

Danny Clark stated, when the house was put in, in 1998.

Vice President Carol Stradling asked, was that on the permit Diann since it was put on when the house was put in?

Director Weaver stated, no, I did notify him that he did have a violation because there was no permit for the deck or the shed.

President Jerry Thompson asked, do we have any pictures?

Vice President Carol Stradling asked, did you put the home in?

Danny Clark stated, no, Twin Lakes Manufactured Homes did.

President Jerry Thompson asked, are you the original owner?

Danny Clark stated, yes.

Vice President Carol Stradling asked, did they file the paperwork or did they?

Danny Clark stated, I’m sure they did. I don’t recall it.

Director Weaver stated, I can answer that.

Vice President Carol Stradling stated, what we are getting at, and I don’t know if you know about it, but when something is added to a piece of property a building permit is required and we like to see what the building permit request is put on there. Apparently the deck and shed were not on there.

Danny Clark stated, I put the deck and the shed in and I was not aware that I had to have a permit for either one of them. They put the home in and I put the deck and shed in.

Vice President Carol Stradling stated, the shed is not on the survey.

Director Weaver stated, the permit was issued in Dan Clark and Gail Willis and Gail Willis did sign the permit.

Attorney Altman asked, who is Gail Willis?

Danny Clark stated, that would be my ex-finance. Yes she must have. This is my first home and 6 years ago, I can’t remember.

Director Weaver stated, I can’t tell you who submitted the permit, just who picked it up.

Danny Clark is showing the board where the shed is.

Director Weaver stated, I would like to let the board know that in 1998 we did issue a permit for a privacy fence.

Attorney Altman stated, the fence is not on the survey either.

Vice President Carol Stradling asked, are there any comments from the board?

Attorney Altman stated, you understand that if the board was to grant the variance for the garage that you effectively marry the two lots.

Danny Clark stated, yes.

President Jerry Thompson stated, I have nothing. His place looks nice.

Vice President Carol Stradling asked, do you want to deal with the violation or the variance first?

President Jerry Thompson asked, have you gotten anything in the mail on this?

Director Weaver stated, no, have not received anything.

Vice President Carol Stradling asked, does anyone else have anything to say either for against this variance?

Attorney Altman asked, what is your business?

Danny Clark stated, Milestone contractors out of Lafayette.

Attorney Altman asked, what do they do?

Danny Clark stated, utility work, roadwork, and concrete.

Attorney Altman asked, what do you do for them?

Danny Clark stated, I’m a union operator.

Attorney Altman asked, how long have you worked for them?

Danny Clark stated, 9 years.

Attorney Altman asked, do you run machinery?

Danny Clark stated, just machines.

Attorney Altman asked, do you do any construction work at all?

Danny Clark stated, I started out as a laborer there.

Attorney Altman stated, no I mean any work on the side?

Danny Clark stated, no.

David Scott stated, I have a little trouble assessing a $500 fine on a deck or a shed because sometimes people just do not know that they need the permit.

Vice President Carol Stradling asked, do you have another option Dave?

David Scott stated, I’d like to make a motion we make the fine $100.

David Stimmel stated, I will second it.

Vice President Carol Stradling stated, we have a motion and a second. Is there any discussion?

President Jerry Thompson stated, no.

Vice President Carol Stradling stated, there is a part of me that thinks it should be higher and another part that says our fine building out side the building permit was not in place at that time. We just put that in 2003. The $500 was not set up as an automatic. Would a $100 be in line with what we were doing back then.

Director Weaver stated, I’m looking back at fines that were imposed last year. I’m looking at one done in January about the time we starting imposing the $500 fine. We fined the owner $300 in that situation and the contractor $100, but this also encroached on the neighbors property. I don’t know if you remember that or not, but it did encroach the neighbor. His does meet the setback requirements. I have no knowledge if the shed does or not. The deck does.

Vice President Carol Stradling stated, there is a motion and a second and discussion. All in favor of a $100 fine signify by saying “aye” All opposed. Motion carried 4 to 0.

Now we are back to the variance request. You are in need of a 20’ front setback to build this attached garage. Any questions from the board?

David Stimmel stated, what about bringing the shed into compliance if in fact it is in compliance or not.

Vice President Carol Stradling stated, we don’t know where it is.

Attorney Altman stated, he needs to get a building permit for all of these things. They must be in compliance and pay the $100 fine.

Director Weaver asked, do you know how far the shed is off of the property line?

Danny Clark stated, it is probably 3’ off of my sideline.

Director Weaver asked, how far?

Danny Clark stated, 3’ off the sideline.

Vice President Carol Stradling stated, you might have to move it.

David Stimmel asked, can you move it?

Danny Clark stated, it is built like a pole barn. It is concreted into the ground.

Attorney Altman stated, you may have to come back with a variance, or move it.

Vice President Carol Stradling asked, can you adjust this plan?

President Jerry Thompson asked, is lot 43 still vacant as it is marked here?

Danny Clark stated, yes.

Vice President Carol Stradling stated, we have to deal with this variance tonight and if you want to keep your shed, you would have to readdress the issue.

Danny Clark asked, as far as getting another variance.

Attorney Altman stated, you have to find out where it is and find out what you have to do. It has to be into compliance.

Vice President Carol Stradling stated, the best thing to do would be to table this, that way you could combine into one variance instead of doing 2.

Danny Clark stated, you mean.

Vice President Carol Stradling asked, are you planning on building your garage here in the next month?

Danny Clark stated, immediately.

Vice President Carol Stradling stated, immediately, then you probably want an answer on this tonight.

Danny Clark stated, yes, as far as the garage goes.

Vice President Carol Stradling stated, if we could have seen the shed, we could have put both on the same and saved a little bit of money.

Danny Clark stated, yes, but I wasn’t aware that I was even in violation.

Vice President Carol Stradling stated, we probably weren’t aware until you went out to take pictures and realized there is a shed.

President Jerry Thompson stated, I would go to Mr. Milligan and have him come out and measure and add this to the survey, rather than redo the whole survey.

Vice President Carol Stradling asked, are we ready to vote?

Without further discussion the board voted.

The Board finds the following:

1. That the property is properly zoned R-2, One and Two Family Residential.

2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114.

3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.

4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.

5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.

6. That the request is for a 20’ front setback variance to build an attached garage on the existing home on Lots 44 and 45 in Lakeshore Village in Liberty Township, White County, Indiana.

COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located East of Lowe’s Bridge at 6163 N. Lakeshore Court.

7. That the variance herein authorized and granted is not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make typical or recurrent the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said condition or situation of the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variance is based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variance under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.

The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 4 affirmative and 0 negative.

****

#2282 Janet Rowe; The property is located on .18 of an acre in the Town of Wolcott at 602 N. Burke Street.

Violation: None

Request: She is requesting a 22’ front setback variance to enclose a roofed porch and bring the existing house into compliance.

Vice President Carol Stradling asked, and you are?


Janet Rowe stated, I’m Janet Rowe.


Vice President Carol Stradling asked, is there anything else that you care to add?


Janet Rowe stated, no, I just want to enclose the porch and put it in compliance. That house is 100 years old. It was built in 1900. My grandfather got that house for a payment.


Vice President Carol Stradling asked, anything in the mail Diann?


Director Weaver stated, no, nothing.


Vice President Carol Stradling asked, anyone have anything either for or against this variance tonight? Board any comments.


Director Weaver stated, I don’t believe it was listed here, but she is going to build a couple of additions on the backside of this home. I just wanted the board to understand.


Without further discussion the board voted.


The Board finds the following:


1. That the property is properly zoned R-2, One and Two Family Residential.


2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114.


3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.


4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.


5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.

6. That the request is for a 22’ front setback variance to enclose a roofed porch and bring the existing house into compliance on part of the Northwest quarter of the Northwest quarter of Section thirty (30), Township Twenty-seven (27) North, Range Five (5) West; in the Town of Wolcott, White County, Indiana described as follows:

Beginning at a point One Hundred Twenty-eight (128) feet East and Four Hundred Thirty-eight (438) feet South from the intersection of the East line of Range Street in said Town of Wolcott, with the South line of the highway running East and West on the North side of said Section Thirty (30), thence East One Hundred Twenty-eight (128) feet to Burke Street in said Town of Wolcott, thence South on the West line of Burke Street Sixty (60) feet, thence West One Hundred Twenty-eight (128) feet, thence North Sixty (60) feet to the place of beginning.

COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located in the Town of Wolcott at 602 N. Burke Street.

7. That the variances herein authorized and granted are not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make reasonable practicable the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variances are based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variances under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.

The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 4 affirmative and 0 negative.

****

Charles Mellon asked, the county inspector, doesn’t he do all of the inspecting now in the county?

Director Weaver stated, Braaksma is private. The building inspector has no right to inspect the interior of a mobile home.

Charles Mellon stated, oh okay. This man right here, if I can relate to where he is out there, isn’t he pretty close to a hog operation.

??? stated, yes.

Charles Mellon stated, I know that road pretty good out there. 1100 and 700 and there is water on both sides of that. If he is going to live in the smell that is all right.

Vice President Carol Stradling stated, we have a couple of business items. Provo fine is on there. Diann.

Director Weaver stated, I have sent to the board what has transpired with this. Jerry did provide me today a letter that did go out in today’s mail to the Provo’s and I have provided you with a copy of the letter. This is the step we had to take before we turn it over to the Prosecutor’s office.

Vice President Carol Stradling stated, Dave we kind of discussed Bob Braaksma inspecting trailers and mobile homes. Did you want to bring that up now?

David Scott stated, does anyone want to know what criteria he goes by or what ever to. I guess if Jerry says that liability ends right here, I would have voted not to accept his.

Attorney Altman stated, they are always going to second guess you. Nobody can say liability ends wherever, only when the Judge says it.

David Scott stated, when we allow a 1966 mobile home in there, someone is saying it is not up to snuff.

President Jerry Thompson stated, that isn’t going to answer what you are wanting. We use to see a checklist that they used. Items that they looked for. It was a copy of what he looked up and what he checked.

David Stimmel asked, different than what we have now?

Director Weaver stated, you probably haven’t seen one of those since we adopted this new ballot. When we adopted this new ballot he started going along with the ballot.

David Scott stated, I’m concerned. I know how sometimes people can get lax and Bob may go out and just walk through. I’m not saying that he isn’t doing a good job, but if we are going to let something set there permanently it should meet codes.

Attorney Altman stated, that is the point, it could be other than this one.

Director Weaver stated, personally I’m going along with Dave Scott, I’m thinking maybe if they get older than an 81 I don’t know if we even need to be approving them.

Vice President Carol Stradling asked, has the date changed through out?

Director Weaver stated, no, and the reason the 1981 date was step up, was because that is when HUD changed their codes. I don’t know if that is still the most current code, but that was the major update and that is how that date came in to play.

Vice President Carol Stradling asked, do we maybe need to check that? How would we check that? When did we have this inspection thing? It has been 8 years.

President Jerry Thompson stated, longer.

Vice President Carol Stradling stated, so that is when we started doing 1981’s. So we ought to be.

President Jerry Thompson stated, well when did it go in to effect. When we couldn’t so call discriminate against trailers. We use to legally we could.

David Scott stated, I use to be involved with the fire department and I have been on many trailer runs and most of them, if you are in the back room and the fire is in the other end, sometimes you can’t get out. They go that fast. That is just a concern for just the people out here trying to do this.

Director Weaver stated, we had one here tonight. I don’t know how old Mr. Hekking’s mobile home was, but that is what he had on the property previously.

Vice President Carol Stradling stated, we can add things to that check list and we can make the ballot into more of a check list if we want.

Director Weaver stated, we can. My thought on this is they are talking a new ordinance, maybe we can start preparing what we want for the new ordinance.

David Stimmel stated, but to address that the concerns would be require a separate egress that from those trailer. To address that fire concern.

Vice President Carol Stradling asked, are windows in, I mean can you get out a window in a trailer.

David Stimmel stated, yes, like a school bus or something.

Vice President Carol Stradling asked, does he try to open them to see if they are easily openable? I don’t know how many windows, yea the window is there, a yep if I needed to I could fit through, but could I even get it open.

Charles Mellon stated, about the 26th or the 28th they are having a meeting over there, I think at the 4-H grounds about land use. Talk about some of the ordinance and stuff.

Director Weaver stated, you know what we will be here.

President Jerry Thompson stated, we can’t go because we have a meeting. I’m back at Tippecanoe. Call them and see what they do.

Director Weaver stated, I have their full ordinance in my office.

David Stimmel stated, that is the right thing to do.

Attorney Altman stated, it is a good start.

Director Weaver stated, I know some counties after a certain date, they won’t allow them in their county. Flat out.

Vice President Carol Stradling stated, I think we should probably set up a progressive year and do it that way. We have been doing 1981 for about since I started. I have been here 9 years.

Charles Mellon stated, the lady that wants to build that new house on her old foundation, what would be wrong with making her put in a double firewall in her side of the house.

Director Weaver stated, that state code says it has to be in both homes.

Charles Mellon stated, if her house is on the property line, her house should be off of that property line.

Vice President Carol Stradling stated, see Charlie we don’t set up those codes. It is out of our hands, whatever she can work out with the building inspector and whatever State codes are.

Charles Mellon stated, it seems funny making an adjoining house where no body wants to do anything to their house to make them put a fire wall in.

David Scott stated, I just have a problem with building right on the property lines. I know things have been done like that on the lake. Even with a firewall and everything, when you can not even get a lawn mower down without getting on your neighbor’s property. On the other side of that I don’t want to say I’m not going to allow anything. We don’t want to stop progress.

Several talking at once.

Vice President Carol Stradling stated, we said at sometime we need to set a fine which we did and now and we did that to simplify the fine issue, but now every time it comes up.

David Scott stated, I am the softest on that and my opinion on, I’m just out here following the rules everyday and I’m telling you it is tough. When people don’t know before I got involved in Area Plan and I didn’t know I needed a permit for my shed. People are unaware. I feel like giving those people a break. Now contractors I have no problem with.

President Jerry Thompson stated, I guess Dave I use to feel that way. We have had zoning in White County since 1972. It is time for people to catch on. It has been 30 years now. This is not a surprise.

David Scott stated, there is a difference between building a building on and putting up a fence or a shed.

Director Weaver stated, when our office issued the building permits, I tried to put an ad in every spring and they were really good over here about running it for me every spring. If you are going to put up a deck, fence, shed, or any of these things you need a building permit. I tried to encourage the building inspector to do this and it is no longer done.

David Scott stated, the other side of that is we want to have enough so you don’t have problem doing your job.

Several talking at once.

David Scott stated, there was a gentlemen in here a month ago or so and said at least in Lafayette you get a warning first. I think that all violations should be a warning sent out with so much time to respond. If you do not respond then fine them $500 and we are done talking.

Director Weaver stated, our County Commissioners are not happy with our fine policy because of that very same reason.

David Scott stated, one of them called me and talked to me about it and I said that is what I think.

President Jerry Thompson stated, I hear you to and I’m talking to them and not just this year, but you know I have. I have invited them to come to meetings. How many times have we had Commissioners set in on a meeting? How many times have they been at other meetings?

Director Weaver stated, not very many.

President Jerry Thompson stated, I wish they would experience one or two nights a year with us.

David Stimmel asked, so what are you saying Dave? That you would send out a warning letter saying you’ve got 10 days?

David Scott stated, if Diann catches somebody she needs to issue a warning and if you don’t respond in so many days, I would say a contractor exempt from this. If somebody is in the business then they know.

Director Weaver stated, at the time that you are doing it you are not going to know who the builder is. See our letters go out to the owners.

David Scott stated, I would say that every violation should be entitled to a warning. You have so many days to come in and comply and then when they come in and comply to find out it is a contractor.

Vice President Carol Stradling stated, Dave what about these people that it is already built and it was a contractor and, you get so convoluted you’ve got so many what ifs.

David Scott stated, there is always a scenario to work around the system, but I think to be fair to people that are not in the business. The people who go and buy a shed and put it in have no idea that they need a permit. I think everything should be a warning and then a violation.

Vice President Carol Stradling stated, if you set it up for that kind of people, what you also do is set up a loop hole for contractors to say, don’t do it, if they send you a notice then we will take care of it.

Director Weaver stated, what about these people who do know that they are suppose to do it and choose not too. I’ll tell you what they are out there.

David Scott stated, like I said there are all types of scenarios, but.

Vice President Carol Stradling stated, if they know they are going to get a warning first, then we will just see. I’ll deal with it when I get the warning and if they don’t notice it and then I don’t have to pay anything.

David Scott stated, if you get a speeding ticket you know that, it is posted. Every 500’ there is a sign posted saying it is 75 mph. Most of your people are not aware.

Attorney Altman stated, I don’t agree with that. I think they are aware of it.

Vice President Carol Stradling stated, if they are not aware Dave, if they are building something and they don’t have enough construction knowledge that they know that maybe I should get a building permit. They ought to ask around. They will ask somebody. Somebody is going to tell them.

David Scott stated, a couple of weeks ago a fellow told me, he said I’m putting up one of those metal tops with post on the corners and he said I need to know where my utility lines are. I went down to locate the lines and I said where is your permit. He said I have to have a permit, he had no idea and had I not gone done there, the company was going to be down there in a couple of hours to put their thing up. He made a deposit and he bought the thing out of the county. I think he bought it out of Tippecanoe County and they were on their way up to put this metal thing up. I think I called Diann’s office, so he knew that wasn’t coming from me that it was coming from the Area Plan office. I said you have to have a permit. He went over to get a permit and he didn’t meet the setback, so he said I’m to old and I’m not messing with this. He lost the $80.00 he put down for the metal top. This guy was unaware.

Vice President Carol Stradling stated, but part of that Dave, there are some Counties that don’t even have a building, they don’t have an ordinance. In Pulaski County you can build what ever you want, but White County made a decision that they’re not going to do that. There are certain restrictions and there are certain regulations that people should meet. That is what the office was established to help enforce and to achieve. So if you say that they just didn’t know well.

David Scott stated, I didn’t write the book and it is a good thing because things like sheds wouldn’t be on there. They are portable, I mean you can still set them on the line.

Director Weaver stated, they still get assessed.

Vice President Carol Stradling stated, but his wasn’t portable if he poured concrete and built it like a pole barn.

David Scott stated, I know that isn’t right, but what I’m talking about move barns that you can buy at the lumberyard.

Director Weaver stated, they still get assessed, and they still need to be restricted on where they can go, so they don’t block a view.

David Scott stated, well there is a scenario to everything.

Vice President Carol Stradling asked, where do you start and stop. I don’t know maybe we let people build decks wherever and whenever they want.

David Scott stated, the system we have isn’t working and that is my justification in fining that guy $100 instead of $500. I really don’t think that he knew.

Director Weaver stated, I know one person in particular and I won’t say names, but prior to our Building Inspector put in all kinds of mobile homes and junk homes and you know that many doesn’t do to much in White County since we now have a building inspector. He moved on to Pulaski County.

President Jerry Thompson stated, this last gentleman, I question him he works for Milestone. They are in the excavating business, they never ran into an inspector of any kind.

David Scott stated, I have guys that work with me and the one guy is a heck of a worker, but the only thing he knows is I get to work with the old tractor and that is all he wants to know.

Vice President Carol Stradling stated, it was so many years ago and his ex-finance filed the paperwork and someone else put the house in.

The meeting adjourned.

Respectfully submitted,

Gary Barbour, Secretary

Diann Weaver, Director

White County Area Plan Commission