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The White County Board of Zoning Appeals met on Thursday, June 17, 2004 at 7:30 p.m. in the Commissioners’ Meeting Room, Second Floor, County Building, Monticello, Indiana.

Members attending were Gary Barbour, David Scott, Carol Stradling, Jerry Thompson and David Stimmel. Also attending were Attorney Jerry Altman and Director Diann Weaver.

Visitors attending were: Charles R. Mellon, Virgil F. Meyer, Marge Welsh, Robert Welsh, Dwayne Starostka, Tim Schaffer, Charlie Roberts, Nick Hammond, Jan Crowell, Sara High, Bruce High, Eric Holt, and Dave Anderson

The meeting was called to order by President Jerry Thompson and roll call was taken. Carol Stradling made a motion to table the April 15, 2004 minutes. Motion was seconded by Gary Barbour and carried unanimously. Attorney Altman swore in all Board members and audience members.


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#2238 Sharon Grigsby:

Violation: She has not provided the second inspection as required by the granted

Special Exception approved on September 18, 2003.

Request: She received a Special Exception to allow a 1976 mobile home to be relocated within White County. Section 12.00, Article 12.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance requires that any mobile home older than a 1981 have an inspection done and an approved special exception in order to be placed in or relocated within White County.

President Jerry Thompson asked, is there anyone here representing this request? Diann did you get any correspondence from them today?

Director Weaver stated, no.

President Jerry Thompson stated, they didn’t call and say yes or no.

Director Weaver stated, no, the last contact with her was on May 6, and I told her that she needed to be here at this meeting and she told me that she would be here.

David Scott asked, what was the reason for not getting the second inspection?


Director Weaver stated, I haven’t been given a reason. I sent, what happen is I sent her a letter and gave her 30 days to get the inspection into us and I got no response for that. Therefore I sited her for a violation and required her to come to the meeting. Actually she was supposed to be at last months meeting and she called me and said she was supposed to have surgery, so I postponed it until this meeting.

David Scott asked, are they living in it?

Director Weaver stated, yes.

Attorney Altman stated, so that is equivalent of another violation, not that I’m suggesting that we do that, but clearly she was told she should not do that.

President Jerry Thompson asked, what are our choices here? It is too late to table it until next week.

Director Weaver stated, yes.

President Jerry Thompson stated, so the earliest it can be addressed is.

Attorney Altman stated, if she is a no show you can proceed with the violation and hear the evidence on that.

President Jerry Thompson asked, without her present?

Attorney Altman stated, without her present because she was given notice. Tonight and orally as Diann just testified.

Director Weaver stated, I believe I even sent a letter out.

Attorney Altman stated, I know you did, I seen a copy go through.

President Jerry Thompson stated, but you made mention that she is living, that it is occupied.

David Scott stated, I wouldn’t think that you can live in something until you had or until she met all of the requirements.

Director Weaver stated, that's it exactly.

Carol Stradling stated, that is why we approved it contingent upon the second inspection. She hasn’t had the second inspection.

President Jerry Thompson asked, can we act on the fact that they are living in it? Do we have it documented that she is living in it?

Director Weaver stated, I have pictures and the other mobile home is gone.

David Scott asked, if she wasn’t living in it, how much time did we give her to get the second inspection?

Director Weaver stated, I gave her 30 days. I’m sorry I take that back, I’m reading the letter and I gave her 15 days. The letter I sent to her in March and I still haven’t gotten a second inspection.

David Scott stated, when we give someone a special exception and ask for the second inspection. How long do they have to get that inspection; did we put a time limit on it?

Director Weaver stated, I don’t believe that we did, I don’t believe we did. Before they moved into.

Gary Barbour stated, they have to have the second inspection before it is occupied. If they are occupying it, they are in violation.

President Jerry Thompson stated, but what do we have, I mean yes we have you saying it is occupied. Do we have anything in writing saying that it is occupied?

Director Weaver stated, I believe.

President Jerry Thompson stated, right here it says that it is not. See what I’m saying.

Director Weaver stated, what says…

President Jerry Thompson stated, no one living in it.

Director Weaver stated, I think that you are reading the old one, was setting there with no one living in it.

David Stimmel asked, I was just wondering is there a cost issue Diann? I mean how much does Bob charge to do this inspection?

Director Weaver stated, I think he charges $100 or $125 in that ballpark, I’m not positive.

David Stimmel stated, according to what your documentation says it is September of last year.

Director Weaver stated, she did contact him to do the second inspection and scheduled an appointment. I’m getting this from Bob Braaksma when I talked to him, scheduled the appointment and he went up there and no one was there for him to do the inspection. No one was at home.

Carol Stradling asked, do you know when that was?

Director Weaver stated, it was after I sent the first letter out.

Carol Stradling stated, so probably sometime in March?

Director Weaver stated, yes, or first of April.

David Scott asked, do they give a certificate of occupancy or something on a trailer like they do on a house?

Director Weaver stated, yes they are supposed to.

David Scott stated, she should have had that before.

Director Weaver stated, she has not had any of her inspections done with the inspector either.

Attorney Altman asked, did she get a building permit?

Director Weaver stated, yes, and on the permit there is a copy here, we even put the conditions and she signed it or she initialed beside it. It says that a second inspection must be done and steps must be at all entrances prior to receiving a certificate of occupancy. She initialed it.

Attorney Altman stated, continue the fine or instruct me to go to court and get her out. All of these things can be done, and given the fact that you know you really don’t know, we had some issues about the original mobile home and the condition it was. Maybe you ought to strongly consider that as little as I like to pursue that way.

David Scott stated, if she is living in it without the certificate of occupancy, I think she should have the fine. Before our next meeting, actually she ought to cease living there until she gets the certificate of occupancy and she needs to have that before she lives there.

President Jerry Thompson stated, you said that she had surgery. Right?

Director Weaver stated, yes. That was in May.

President Jerry Thompson stated, oh that was in May; you don’t know what it pertained to. I don’t want to be cruel about the thing, if she had something that was.

Director Weaver stated, no I do not.

David Scott stated, if she is not living there, I guess she can take as long as she wants to get that inspection. Is that correct?

Attorney Altman stated, up to a year.

David Scott stated, up to a year.

Attorney Altman stated, with a special exception you have to take substantial steps to implement a special exception.

David Scott stated, it is my opinion if someone is living there that the fine should be imposed and if she has an excuse why she shouldn’t be fined then she needs to get on the agenda and come in here and tell us.

Carol Stradling stated, I think that is why she is on the agenda today.

Director Weaver stated, she has not given a reason why there wasn’t a second inspection.

David Scott stated, we are sure that someone is living there.

Director Weaver stated, I believe that the building inspector tried to pay a visit up there also and there were people in the house. A child no adult a child.

Attorney Altman asked, are you Mrs. Grigsby?

Sharon Grigsby stated, yes I am.

Attorney Altman stated, we are just discussing your issue. Would you come up please?

President Jerry Thompson stated, we are addressing your issue right now.

Sharon Grigsby stated, I’m Sharon Grigsby.

Carol Stradling asked, do we need to swear her in?

President Jerry Thompson stated, yes we do.

Attorney Altman asked, would you raise your right hand please? Do you solemnly swear that the evidence and the testimony that you give this evening will be the truth and the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

Sharon Grigsby stated, yes I do.

Attorney Altman stated, thank you.

Sharon Grigsby stated, my name is Sharon Grigsby.

President Jerry Thompson stated, we would like to open it to you. Do you have anything that you would like to give, any information, to the board before we continue?

Sharon Grigsby stated, I would have done it earlier, but I was disabled from September, I lost my job and I’m on social security now and my social security just now came through. Bob should have sent you the papers where he has already looked at the property and it is up to standards. I have passed the test.

Teresa Spencer stated, she did have a total hip replacement.

Attorney Altman stated, you are not sworn in.

Sharon Grigsby stated, I did have a total hip replacement and that was my sickness. I couldn’t even walk.

President Jerry Thompson stated, so this correspondence from Mr. Braaksma.

Sharon Grigsby stated, yes.

President Jerry Thompson asked, was this for the second inspections, is that what you are speaking of. What do you mean?

Sharon Grigsby stated, it was the final inspection.

President Jerry Thompson asked, the final inspection?

Sharon Grigsby stated, the final inspection.

President Jerry Thompson stated, he was to have sent that to Diann.

Sharon Grigsby stated, yes. Did you receive it Diann?

Director Weaver stated, no.

Sharon Grigsby stated, you haven’t received it yet, he has already done it.

Carol Stradling asked, when did you do it?

Sharon Grigsby stated, Friday, last Friday.

Attorney Altman asked, when did you occupy it?

Sharon Grigsby stated, when did I occupy it?

Attorney Altman asked, when did you move in?

Sharon Grigsby stated, I moved in, in October, no wait I moved in, in November.

President Jerry Thompson stated, I think Diann is going to check to see if she might have received something today, so let's give her a couple of minutes.

Sharon Grigsby stated, I’m sorry I didn’t understand I thought it was okay to move into it before I had the inspection and apparently it wasn’t. I haven’t….

Attorney Altman stated, it is pretty clear on your permit that you are not allowed in there.

Sharon Grigsby stated, I misunderstood, I really did.

Teresa Spencer asked, my I say something?

President Jerry Thompson stated, yes, come to the microphone.

Attorney Altman swore in Teresa Spencer.

Teresa Spencer stated, my name is Teresa Spencer and I’m her daughter. I have been taking care of her. The trailer that she was living in the furnace went out of it, there was no heat and we were running electric heaters. The one side, the whole side of the trailer the electricity went out of. It wasn’t safe for her to live in. She had no choice but to move into the other trailer. It was still set up and running. She had no choice; she was sick, barely able to get around. I moved in and I take care of her. I have been taking care of her. She had a total hip replacement, she is…

Attorney Altman asked, that was in May?

Teresa Spencer stated, she just had it done.

Attorney Altman stated, that is what I thought.

Teresa Spencer stated, she finally got Medicaid to go through. I called the State and the Governor’s office and it finally went through, her Medicaid and social security for her to have the surgery. In the mean time she was laying in bed and I as changing pads and taking care of her. She couldn’t get up and walk; she couldn’t do anything.

Director Weaver stated, the inspection was in my office. It was in with other inspections, I didn’t realize it was in there, so I do have it.

Sharon Grigsby stated, I’m sorry Diann.

President Jerry Thompson stated, okay, let me just say here for the board. Jerry you better do this for the record.

Attorney Altman stated, this was dated June 11, 2004. It is location question. It is for Sharon Grigsby. Driving directions, I’m going to ignore that. (Jerry continued to read the final inspection. See Special Exception file for the report).

Attorney Altman stated, it shows a picture of it. There are 9 photos of the home. It was inspected on the 11th. It meets the requirements.

President Jerry Thompson asked, do you have anything Diann?

Director Weaver stated, no.

President Jerry Thompson stated, so basically what we are looking at is the issue of the occupancy.

Attorney Altman stated, yes.

President Jerry Thompson asked, are there any questions from the Board? Carol do you have anything to comment on?

Carol Stradling stated, I’m just wondering, I’m looking at notes that indicate that Diann sent a letter back in March.

Sharon Grigsby stated, that is the reason, right before my surgery, I told her I couldn’t be here because the day of my surgery was the day before I was suppose to be here. That is why I didn’t show up.

Carol Stradling stated, that was in May, I’m looking back to 3/18/04 is when Diann sent a letter and you called in and asked what you needed to do and she gave you Bob Braaskma’s name and phone number. That was 3/18 and then Mr. Braaksma was there on 6/11. I was just wondering why 3 months.

Sharon Grigsby stated, financially I did not have enough money to replace all of the outlets that had to be replaced because it was an older home. The outlets had to be replaced and there were a few other things that had to be done to the trailer. Money wise, I was living on absolutely nothing. That was just the financial. Financially I had nothing.

Carol Stradling stated, so you were not prepared to do the second inspection.

Sharon Grigsby stated, pardon me.

Carol Stradling stated, the home wasn’t ready to pass the second inspection.

Sharon Grigsby stated, no I guess it wasn’t.

Carol Stradling stated, until last week. At what point and time did you complete the items that needed to be changed?

Sharon Grigsby stated, I just received my social security, so it was the first of this month.

Carol Stradling stated, so the first of June.

Sharon Grigsby stated, yes.

President Jerry Thompson asked, Gary do you have anything?

Gary Barbour stated, no.

President Jerry Thompson asked, Dave Scott? And Dave Stimmel?

David Stimmel stated, nothing right now?

President Jerry Thompson asked, is there anyone else here who cares to address the special exception?

Teresa Spencer stated, she just didn’t have the money to hire an electrician and have the work done. She was living there and with me. She wasn’t living in the home 24/7. It was back and forth and back and forth. She has nothing.

Director Weaver asked, are you still living with her?

Teresa Spencer stated, yes I am.

Sharon Grigsby stated, I’m not allowed to be alone yet.

Teresa Spencer stated, she can’t be alone.

Sharon Grigsby stated, I just had the surgery 3 weeks ago.

David Scott stated, I guess I will change my opinion now that we have heard the circumstances, I think there are some pretty good reasons on why she didn’t make it. I was on the other side of it before you got here.

Sharon Grigsby stated, I understand that.

David Scott stated, you shouldn’t have been living there without the paperwork. I make a motion that we waive the fine.

David Stimmel stated, I will second it.

President Jerry Thompson stated, we have a motion and a second. Is there any discussion?

Carol Stradling stated, I would just recommend that anybody that is hearing this I would suggest that if circumstances arise that you communicate with the Area Plan office, so we can take care of it that way, instead of having to call you in for a violation.

Teresa Spencer asked, can I say something about that?

President Jerry Thompson asked, name please.

Teresa Spencer stated, I’m Teresa Spencer. I didn’t know about this until after I had talked to Diann and she that we have to go to court I can’t.

Director Weaver stated, that was after the second letter was sent.

Teresa Spencer stated, yes it was after the second letter. I told her the circumstances and she said I can’t help you with that, so I did call. I was then aware of it.

President Jerry Thompson stated, we have a motion and a second and if there is no more discussion. All in favor signify by saying “aye” and all of those opposed. Motion was carried and fine waived.

Sharon Grigsby stated, thank you very much.

Director Weaver stated, I have a question. Dave do they still need to get with you for any inspections? This is Dave Anderson the building inspector, you need to get with him.

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#2302 Dwayne Starostka; The property is located on .25 of an acre, South of Lowe’s Bridge at 3928 N. Dolby Court. Tabled from May 20, 2004.

Violation: He just recently rebuilt the shed that is on top of the boathouse and is not meeting the required setback and didn’t get a building permit.

Request: He is requesting a 30’ front setback variance and a 5’ side setback variance to replace the shed on top of and to add a garage onto the existing boat house.


President Jerry Thompson asked, and you are?


Dwayne Starostka stated, I’m Dwayne Starostka. The last time we were here, I fixed the whole street; I fixed the potholes. I fixed, there was a sump pump that came out of the well and I re, and I’ve got pictures. I ran drains out to the lake and I fixed the street as a secondary backup because the street is on both sides and all the water comes down. I ran drain tile from the street to the lake on that side. I took care of all of the water problems there. As far as anything else, I talked to Dave when I was pouring the concrete for the garage and as soon as he told me I needed the permit I went for the permit. That is when Diann said I had to go for a variance. That was the last meeting and then we got into the water and stuff.


President Jerry Thompson asked, you want to present the pictures to the board?


Dwayne Starostka stated, yes.


President Jerry Thompson stated, once you do that we keep them.


Dwayne Starostka stated, that is fine, I want to explain them.


Director Weaver stated, he has provided pictures to me since the last meeting and I did not send copies of these to the board because I felt that with out your explanation of what those pictures.


Dwayne Starostka stated, yes, those were the shut off values and stuff.


Director Weaver stated, if you want to explain those, they are there for you to do so.


Dwayne Starostka is currently explaining all of the pictures that he has brought in to the board.


President Jerry Thompson stated, we need to know how many pictures you are presenting to the board.


Attorney Altman stated, just keep them in order.


Dwayne Starostka stated, the water problem is taken care of.


Attorney Altman stated, I’m going to hand you a copy of Mr. Milligan’s survey and would you please draw on there where you put the tile in, so you can show that to us as enter it as evidence.


Dwayne Starostka is currently drawing on the survey for the board.


Attorney Altman stated, so you put two lines on the North and South of your property.


Dwayne Starostka stated, yes.


Attorney Altman asked, what size was the tile on the South?


Dwayne Starostka stated, it was a 4 inch.


Attorney Altman asked, what size was the tile to the North?


Dwayne Starostka stated, I believe for the sump pump I ran 3”. For a sump pump you normally only need 1”, but I ran it for 3”


Attorney Altman stated, don’t get me wrong I hear what you put in there.


President Jerry Thompson stated, it is better than nothing. Is there anyone here who would like to speak either for or against the variance? Also concerning the violation as well.


Attorney Altman stated, we do have the letter here from the SFLECC received May the 18th. (Jerry proceeded to read the letter, please see the file.) This was the same letter read in the last meeting.


President Jerry Thompson asked, you are?


Jan Conwell stated, I’m Jan Conwell and I was here last month and brought up the water problem. Dwayne has very gracefully solved the problem the best way he could and fixed the road and I appreciate his help with that. I have no further objection.


President Jerry Thompson asked, is there anyone else who cares to address the issue?

Diann do you have anything that you would like to say?


Director Weaver stated, at the last meeting we did have a problem because we had not included that shed on top of the boathouse in the request, so we did advertise and notify the adjacent property owners and everything is corrected at this point and time.


Attorney Altman stated, so all of the variances are on the table either to be approved, denied, or modified.


Carol Stradling asked, can we go back to the water problems with all of the rain that we have had lately, the water has been taken care of?


Jan Conwell stated, yes. The only problem that we had was with the well. The ground water was never a problem, it was the well in the wintertime that was the problem and he has addressed that.


Carol Stradling stated, okay.


David Scott asked, can you explain these pictures to me?


Dwayne is going over the pictures with Dave Scott at this time. There is other discussion among the board members.


President Jerry Thompson asked, are there any questions from the board? Dave, Dave, Gary, and Carol?


Carol Stradling stated, we have a couple of issues in front of us correct. The water issue was one and he has taken care of that. So now we just have to look at the proximity to the side property line. Then there is the violation of beginning to build and building over the old boathouse without a permit.


Director Weaver stated, right, the structure above the boathouse required a front setback variance. That is why we couldn’t continue with this last month because we didn’t include that in the original request.


Carol Stradling stated, because the waterside is the front.


Director Weaver stated, right.


Carol Stradling stated, and he is actually encroached on SFLECC.


Director Weaver stated, no, the drawing that you have, the survey that you have that shows the foot print of the boathouse. I have talked to SFLECC about this building on top of the boathouse and Joe Roach has been out there and says it does not encroach on them. The structure on top of the boathouse is smaller than the boathouse itself.


Dwayne Starostka stated, there was always a building up there, I just resided it and I wasn’t aware that you needed a permit for that.


President Jerry Thompson stated, okay, where do we stand.


Carol Stradling stated, okay even with the new garage when…


Dwayne Starostka stated, as soon as, Dave came down and as soon as he came I went down the same day and applied for the permit.


Carol Stradling stated, okay, but I guess you were saying you didn’t realize you needed a permit when you were replacing an old building, but you didn’t even try to get a permit for a new building, for the proposed garage.


Dwayne Starostka stated, I was going to go get the permit for the garage.


Carol Stradling asked, after it was built?


Dwayne Starostka stated, no, I was going for the permit that day.


Carol Stradling asked, so what if it was denied and you already had your concrete poured?


Dwayne Starostka stated, well I was just taking a gamble on that. To be honest there is no other place to put the garage because you have got to have access to get into the front of the house.


Carol Stradling stated, I guess I would suggest that you call and get a building permit before you call the concrete company to pour concrete. That would be my first phone call.


President Jerry Thompson asked, do you do work for others?


Dwayne Starostka stated, back in Chicago I do.


President Jerry Thompson asked, do you?


Dwayne Starostka stated, in the City of Chicago you have got to have a permit to build, but they have no inspections, so usually the homeowners comes out and they will get the permit for the garage in the township. You are allowed to build up to so many square feet without a building permit. That is really I mean the building, the garage is not even a one-car garage.


Carol Stradling stated, so you were assuming that the regulations that are in existing in the Chicago area where also in existing here.


Dwayne Starostka stated, no I wasn’t thinking that I was going to get the permit on that, I just….


Attorney Altman asked, don’t you have a business here in Monticello?


Dwayne Starostka stated, I just took back Dwayne’s World.


Attorney Altman asked, you had a business here before you sold it?


Dwayne Starostka stated, yes, but when I applied for those permits back then, I even built a house here before. The only permit then and that was a long time ago. I don’t know, I wasn’t playing ignorance or anything, I don’t know.


I’m not trying to snowball anything.


President Jerry Thompson stated, we understand. Dave Scott you are the first one that turned your head what is your thoughts.


Dwayne Starostka stated, I did patch the whole street for everybody on the whole block.


Attorney Altman stated, we are talking, you can have a chair if you want.


David Scott stated, I don’t see anything wrong with the setback, but I don’t see how, I think there needs to be some kind of a fine assessed. You have to get a permit to build that is all there is to it. Everybody knows that. We just can’t keep this up.


President Jerry Thompson asked, Gary any comments.


Gary Barbour stated, I make a motion that we impose the $500 fine and move on. There are to many circumstances here that tell me that he knew he should have had a permit before he got started.


David Stimmel stated, I will second it.


President Jerry Thompson stated, it has been moved and seconded. Any discussion?


Carol do you have anything else.


Carol Stradling stated, no.


President Jerry Thompson stated, moved and seconded that the $500 fine remains in placed. All in favor signify by saying “aye” and all of those opposed. Motion was carried and fine is in place.


Carol Stradling asked, now we move on to the variance?


President Jerry Thompson stated, yes, do you have something to add to that?


Carol Stradling stated, no.


Without further discussion the board voted.


The Board finds the following:

1. That the property is properly zoned L-1, Lake District


2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114.


3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.


4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.


5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.


6. That the request is for a 30’ front setback variance and a 5’ side setback variance to replace the shed on top of and to add a garage onto the existing boathouse on a tract of land located in the Northeast Quarter (1/4) of the Northwest Quarter (1/4) of Section Eight (8), Township Twenty-seven (27) North, Range Three (3) West in Liberty Township, White County, Indiana, and described more fully as follows: Beginning at a point which is South Eighty-nine Degrees and Six Minutes West (S 89º 6’ W) One Hundred Fifty-eight and Nine Tenths (158.9) feet and South Zero Degrees West (S 0º W) Three Hundred Forty-four (344.0) feet from the Northeast corner of the Northwest Quarter (1/4) of the above said Section Eight (8) and running thence South Zero Degrees West (S 0º W) Eighty-six and One Tenth (86.1) feet; thence South Seventy-three Degrees and Eleven Minutes West (S 73º 11’ W) One Hundred Two and Three Tenths (102.3) feet; thence in a Northerly direction approximately Sixty-seven (67) feet to a point which is South Sixty-five Degrees and Thirty-three Minutes West (S 65º 33’ W) One Hundred Ten and Three Tenths (110.3) feet from the point of beginning; thence North Sixty-five Degrees and Thirty Three Minutes East (N 65º 33’ E) One Hundred Ten and Three Tenths (110.3) feet to the point of beginning, containing Twenty-five Hundredths (.25) of an acre, more or less.


COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located South of Lowe’s Bridge at 3928 N. Dolby Court.


7. That the variances herein authorized and granted are not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make reasonable practicable the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variances are based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variances under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.

The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 5 affirmative and 0 negative.


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#2313 Virgil F. & Martha E. Meyer; The property is located on Lot Number 18 in Reynolds and Adkins Addition in the City of Monticello at 104 E. Pierce Circle.

Violation: None

Request: They are requesting a 5’ West side setback variance, a 6’ East side setback variance and a 20’ front setback variance to build an attached garage and a roofed porch and also to bring the existing home into compliance.

President Jerry Thompson stated, you are the Meyer’s.

Virgil Meyer stated, we are the Meyer’s.

President Jerry Thompson asked, would you please come forwards. Do you have anything you would like to add to that?

Virgil Meyer stated, well, the only thing I’m asking is for a variance. The porch would be on the East side. There is a carport there now, and right back of the carport is the garage. We want an extension to build the garage on out. We want to make it 2’ wider. In other words it will be 12’ from the house instead of the 10’. It will be 2’ wider. It will be more or less built, I checked with Dave and we going to build on a pole barn construction. It will be 1” off of the cement poles that are treated.

Carol Stradling stated, if I’m looking at this survey properly, the concrete extends further to the West than the current garage. You are going to build all of the way to the edge of that concrete.

Virgil Meyer stated, no. The concrete extends about 3’ from the other garage and we are going to take about 1’5 concrete of that. There will still be some concrete left.

President Jerry Thompson asked, Diann do you have anything?

Director Weaver stated, I don’t think so, I have not received anything from the neighbors.

President Jerry Thompson asked, is there anyone here who cares to address the variance either for or against.

Attorney Altman stated, the roof of the cover porch will it cover into the roof of the home somewhat like maybe the existing porch there.

Virgil Meyer stated, yes.

Attorney Altman asked, the garage will be single story?

Virgil Meyer stated, yes.

Attorney Altman asked, will it be the same height as the other garage?

Virgil Meyer stated, no it will be higher. The roofline on the new garage will be the same roofline that is on the house.

Attorney Altman stated, I see.

Virgil Meyer stated, it will be under, in other words the garage is going to look like a house. My wife doesn’t like the carport.

President Jerry Thompson asked, carol do you have anything?

Carol Stradling stated, so if the roofline is going the same direction as the house, then you don’t have to worry. I guess you are getting very close to the edge of the property line. I know there has been misunderstandings in the past as to the foundation wall needs to be that far away or the eave, edge of the eave needs to be. What we are approving is the edge of the eave, not the foundation wall.

Virgil Meyer stated, the house, there will be no eave. I could put an overhang on, but if you don’t want to, I don’t have to, in other words to the corner of the house.

Carol Stradling asked, so it will be like this?

President Jerry Thompson asked, there will be no overhang?

Carol Stradling stated, I just want you to know that if you put a 6” overhang that needs to be within what we are approving not extend what we are approving.

Virgil Meyer stated, in other words if I request a 6” overhang then you would have to approve it.

Gary Barbour stated, the closest part of your building can only be 4’ from the property line.

Carol Stradling stated, don’t measure from the wall to the property line, think you are okay, and then put an 18” overhang because you are not okay.

Virgil Meyer stated, no I won’t do that. I will just cut it off at the house.

Carol Stradling stated, I just want you to understand that.

Attorney Altman stated, we do not like to impose fines.

Several talking at once.

President Jerry Thompson asked, Dave, Gary, or Dave?

Without further discussion the board voted.

The Board finds the following:

1. That the property is properly zoned R-1, One Family Residential.

2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114.

3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.


4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.

5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.

6. That the request is for a 5’ West side setback variance, a 6’ East side setback variance and a 20’ front setback variance to build an attached garage and a roofed porch and also to bring the existing home into compliance on Lot Number 18 in Reynolds and Adkins Addition to the City of Monticello, Indiana.

COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located in the City of Monticello at 104 E. Pierce Circle.

7. That the variances herein authorized and granted are not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make reasonable practicable the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variances are based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variances under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.

The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 5 affirmative and 0 negative.

****

#2314 Robert J. Welsh & Marjorie J. Welsh Trust; The property is located on Lot 16 in Pleasant Valley Addition, South of Monticello at 2513 S. Pleasant Valley Court.

Violation: None

Request: They are requesting a 6’ height variance to replace an existing detached garage.

President Jerry Thompson asked, is there anyone here representing the Welch’s?

Robert Welch stated, I’m Robert Welch.

President Jerry Thompson asked, do you have anything that you would like to add?

Robert Welch stated, not really. It is just as stated.

President Jerry Thompson asked, Diann?

Director Weaver stated, I have not received anything from the neighbors.

President Jerry Thompson asked, Jerry?

Attorney Altman stated, no. Everything will be single story?

Robert Welch stated, no it will be 2 stories.

Attorney Altman asked, is it on the sewer system?

Robert Welch stated, yes.

Attorney Altman asked, what kind of water do you have?

Robert Welch stated, well water.

Attorney Altman asked, is it a private well?

Robert Welch stated, yes.

President Jerry Thompson asked, does anyone else care to address this variance either for or against?

Robert Welch stated, there are notes on the survey that the engineer put on there, that those are foundation dimensions. The building will have about a 1’ overhand all the way around it. That is well within the limits I think.

Attorney Altman stated, as long as it is, understand you can not get outside those boundaries. You can’t get out of the variance area is all I’m trying to say.

Robert Welch stated, we are not getting the variance for the dimensions.

Director Weaver stated, no you are not, just for the height.

President Jerry Thompson asked, Dave, Dave, Gary, or Carol do you have anything for him?

Carol Stradling stated, we have pictures, so this is the building we are looking at.

Director Weaver stated, he is removing that.

Carol Stradling stated, he is removing this and putting a new one in there.

Robert Welch stated, yes.

Carol Stradling stated, okay, so how much taller is it going to be.

President Jerry Thompson stated, 6’.

Carol Stradling stated, 6’ taller than it is now.

Director Weaver stated, no, he is wanting to go 6’ taller than the required 17’.

Carol Stradling asked, how tall is it now, the current one?

Robert Welch stated, I don’t know, just a standard 2 car garage.

Attorney Altman stated, it is probably 14 or 15’ tall.

Carol Stradling stated, so it is not going to be any taller than the red house next door.

Robert Welch stated, oh my gosh, no.

Carol Stradling stated, it would just put it so much taller than the other houses and sheds up there, but not any taller.

President Jerry Thompson asked, no other discussion?

Gary Barbour asked, you are putting a second story in the garage?

Robert Welch stated, yes.

Gary Barbour asked, what is the second story going to be for?

Robert Welch stated, primarily storage.

Gary Barbour asked, it isn’t going to be living quarters, no electric, water or anything like that?

Robert Welch stated, oh yes, we will probably have it heated. May occasionally have an over night stay up there, when the kids are here from Texas. It is for storage. We have a small cottage and we have two little closets and we don’t have room to put anything.

Director Weaver stated, they are looking at making this their primary residence. They have recently moved here and want to make it their primary residence.

Gary Barbour asked, are you going to tear the cottage down?

Robert Welch stated, no the house has been our home for 28 years in the summer time, but since I retired this is now our permanent residence here. It is fine for living, we just don’t have any, and it is two bedrooms with 2 little closets. We just wanted some additional room and I think that will make a nice addition.

Carol Stradling asked, it is on public sewers is why we don’t necessarily address it being living quarters and adding to the septic systems and the health codes there.

President Jerry Thompson asked, is there anything else?

Without further discussion the board voted.

The Board finds the following:

1. That the property is properly zoned L-1, Lake District

2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114.

3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.

4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.

5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.

6. That the request is for a 6’ height variance to replace an existing

detached garage on Lot 16 in Pleasant Valley Addition in Union Township, White County, Indiana.

COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located South of Monticello at 2513 S. Pleasant Valley Court.

7. That the variance herein authorized and granted is not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make typical or recurrent the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said condition or situation of the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variance is based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variance under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.

The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 5 affirmative and 0 negative.

****

#2315 Robert J. Welsh & Marjorie J. Welsh Trust; The property is located on Lot 16 in Pleasant Valley Addition, South of Monticello at 2513 S. Pleasant Valley Court.

Violation: None
Request: They are requesting a 1.4’ elevation variance for a detached garage. The White County Flood Ordinance requires the lowest floor elevation to be 619.2’ and they are requesting for it to be 617.8’.


President Jerry Thompson stated, again Mr. Welch.


Robert Welch stated, that is pretty much the way it is.


President Jerry Thompson stated, that is the way it is. I wanted to give you a chance. Diann do you have anything?


Director Weaver stated, we do have a letter from the DNR that quotes what the elevation is suppose to be. I did send you a copy of the flood ordinance, so you could have looked that over before the meeting. If you have any questions that is why Dave Anderson is here.


President Jerry Thompson asked, do you have anything to add Dave before we.


Dave Anderson stated, no it is above base flood elevation. The construction and the location of it, I do not have any problems with this at all.


President Jerry Thompson asked, Jerry? Does anyone here care to address the variance?


Carol Stradling stated, so it is essentially 6’ above the base flood elevation; it’s just that our ordinance requires it to be 2’ above. Okay. Did it flood last year?


Robert Welch stated, it is on the lake.


President Jerry Thompson asked, Gary, Dave or Dave any questions?


Without further discussion the board voted.


The Board finds the following:


1. That the property is properly zoned L-1, Lake District


2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114.


3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.


4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.


5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.


6. That the request is for a 1.4’ elevation variance for a detached garage. The White County Flood Ordinance requires the lowest floor elevation to be 619.2’ and they are requesting for it to be 617.8’ on Lot 16 in Pleasant Valley Addition in Union Township, White County, Indiana.

COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located South of Monticello at 2513 S. Pleasant Valley Court.


7. That the variance herein authorized and granted is not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make typical or recurrent the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said condition or situation of the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variance is based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variance under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.

The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 5 affirmative and 0 negative.


****

#2316 Timothy L. Schaffer & Charles G. Roberts; The property is located on Lot 58 in Dreifus and Haugh Addition in the City of Monticello 610 W. Washington Street.

Violation: Built a roofed porch without a permit that is not meeting the required setbacks.

Request: They are requesting a 7’ front setback variance, a 5’ East side setback variance and a 7’ West side setback variance to build a roofed porch on the front of the home and to bring the home into compliance.


President Jerry Thompson asked, you are?


Tim Schaffer stated, I’m Tim Schaffer.


President Jerry Thompson asked, is there something you would like to add?


Tim Schaffer stated, we thought we were in the variance and we were not. We have no excuse for the permit.


President Jerry Thompson asked, Diann do you have anything to say at this point?


Director Weaver stated, I have not had anything from any of the neighbors on this.


Tim Schaffer stated, I have pictures of the finished product and the neighbors have been very supportive.


Director Weaver stated, I provided them with pictures.


Attorney Altman stated, you are certainly welcome to provide us with anything you want.


President Jerry Thompson asked, is there anyone here who cares to speak either for or against? David Stimmel do you have any questions or comments.


David Stimmel stated, I’m trying to understand what transpired Tim on this. Did you start the porch and.


Tim Schaffer stated, yes.


David Stimmel asked, did you find out that you were in violation.


Tim Schaffer stated, yes that is correct.


David Stimmel asked, what was the timing in that was what?


Tim Schaffer stated, Diann would know better than me. Diann what?


Director Weaver stated, I don’t remember, I’m looking at my notes.


David Stimmel stated, it was back in May, is what I’m getting at.


Director Weaver stated, yes.


Tim Schaffer stated, I didn’t construct it, I had someone else do it.


Director Weaver stated, he was notified on May 11, it looks like and they came in to the office and applied for the permit on May 12. There was no time lapse.


Tim Schaffer asked, Charlie who constructed the porch?


Charlie Roberts stated, Robert Hahn.


David Stimmel asked, is he a local contractor?


Tim Schaffer stated, he is from Delphi.


President Jerry Thompson asked, the pictures that we are seeing is a completed project?


Tim Schaffer stated, yes it is.


President Jerry Thompson asked, your contractor, is he new in the business?


Tim Schaffer stated, I’m not blaming him for it, it was my responsibility to get the permits, so I will take the responsibility for it.


President Jerry Thompson asked, Dave Scott?


David Scott stated, I don’t have anything.


President Jerry Thompson stated, I guess my point was did your contractor not question a permit.


Tim Schaffer stated, no he didn’t. I’m not going to blame him for it.


President Jerry Thompson stated, I understand. Okay. Do you have anything else Dave?


David Scott stated, there was no porch at all there.


Tim Schaffer stated, I have a picture of what it looked like before.


Director Weaver stated, I don’t have a previous picture.


Tim is currently showing the board the previous pictures.


President Jerry Thompson asked, Dave or Gary anything else?


Gary Barbour asked, why didn’t you get a permit?


Tim Schaffer stated, negligence.


Carol Stradling stated, so there are two issues, one is the setback and one is the fine. You guys do wonderful work. I’m just looking at the before and after and going oh man.


Tim Schaffer stated, thank you.


Carol Stradling stated, I move that we impose the $500 fine. I know that you have come here before for permits for stoops and porches. I move that we keep that in place.


David Scott stated, I will second it.


President Jerry Thompson stated, it has been moved and seconded. Is there anymore discussion?


Director Weaver stated, I’m setting here biting my tongue. I normally don’t comment, but this situation really aggravates me. They came into the office and I explained to them that needed a permit and they new they needed a permit. I explained to them that they needed the variance. I suggested to them to not go ahead and finish this porch. They went ahead and finished the porch. They went ahead and enclosed the carport after I told them not too. I told them they could enclose the carport, but that they needed the permit first. I told them they could enclose the carport without the variance. Then I go down there and they had completed the whole project. I was really aggravated. I did specifically tell them that they should not continue. That is all I have to say.


Tim Schaffer stated, I will explain myself for the situation. We work and we buy homes and we remodel houses. We have a painting business and we do this for ourselves, personally for ourselves, not for anyone else. Yes I was aware that we violated, and I will take full responsibility for it. She approached me about it and I said yes I know, we were in the next day and got the permit. She said if you finish enclosing the porch you will be fined or whatever. I don’t have that liberty not to finish the project; we don’t work that way. We work off of an equity system that doesn’t allow me to take a month to finish a project. I have to finish a project so I can get my cash back and cash out and everybody knows about the equity system and how it works. I don’t have a liberty not to finish something that I have started. Unfortunately I made a mistake and I’m paying for it. I have explained this all to her, she continued to whatever. I couldn’t do anything about it at that point. I was already committed at that point. Yes she was aggravated at me, but I had no choice. I’m not blaming anybody; I’m taking the responsibility for it.


President Jerry Thompson stated, I understand.


David Stimmel stated, what concerns me Tim about that approach is that says that this will be a recurring event then.


Tim Schaffer stated, well obviously not, I have got permits in the past, I admit to the mistake that we made. The process got going faster than we had anticipated actually and that is what got us off course here. We weren’t actually planning on starting quite so soon and our contractor started before we had intended for him to start.


David Stimmel stated, you can understand, and I’m thinking out loud that if the board sees this as a re-occurring event that the future fines sure in the heck wouldn’t be in the $500 range.


Tim Schaffer stated, well I assure you it will not happen again.


David Stimmel stated, to give you some encouragement not to do it again.


Tim Schaffer stated, sure I understand that.


Charlie Roberts stated, I would like to say that the day we came up there I applied for the permit to enclose that carport.


Director Weaver stated, you applied for the permit, but never got the permit.


Charlie Roberts stated, it was tabled by you.


Director Weaver stated, no,


Charlie Roberts stated, yes it was Diann


Director Weaver stated, no, not for the carport.


Charlie Roberts stated, yes it was Diann.


Director Weaver stated, I set there and told you, you could do the carport without the variance.


Charlie Roberts asked, can I talk please?


President Jerry Thompson stated, just a minute please.


Charlie Roberts stated, that was just kind of pushed to the side and you said we could do it without the variance. Now I came up there with full intentions of paying for that permit. Then to say that we went ahead and did it any way without asking for getting a permit is wrong.


Tim Schaffer stated, we hadn’t even started the project.


Director Weaver stated, you could have gone ahead and gotten that permit for that portion.


Charlie Roberts stated, I came up there to get it.


Director Weaver stated, you didn’t ask us to go ahead and issue that.


Charlie Roberts stated, I came up there to get that permit, Diann.


Tim Schaffer stated, excuse me Charlie. We asked for the permit. We didn’t say issue, we thought it entailed issue permit, when you ask for a permit. Do you know what I’m saying? That is what we thought. She has caused us problems obviously and we are not getting along very well with Diann unfortunately. This is just a personally thing that we are not clicking. She is harassing us obviously; she is the one who reported the violation. She is the one that has come down on us. I’m taking responsibility for it. There is a little bit of personality conflict here and she is causing us problems. She is picking everything apart. She sent Dave Anderson down to see if he could find any violations inside the house or outside, around the house or whatever.


Director Weaver stated, I didn’t question you about any other violation.


Tim Schaffer stated, she sent Dave Anderson down.


Director Weaver stated, that is his job.


Tim Schaffer stated, I understand that, but he told us that she asked for a violation.


Director Weaver stated, I didn’t ask him to go into the house.


Tim Schaffer stated, okay, well what ever.


Director Weaver stated, the reason there is an aggravation here is because you have gone before the board.


Tim Schaffer stated, okay Diann, someone from your office has asked, us to rent the house.


Director Weaver stated, that has noting to do with this.


Tim Schaffer stated, it doesn’t.


David Scott stated, I’m ready to vote on the motion, but what Dave said, next time as far as I’m concern it will be more.


Tim Schaffer stated, I understand that, we have always been in compliance.


President Jerry Thompson stated, like Dave said we have a motion and a second to he motion. All in favor of the $500 signify by saying “aye’ and all of those opposed “aye”. Motion was carried 4 to 1.


President Jerry Thompson stated, now the variance is there any discussion.


Carol Stradling stated, the house on the East doesn’t have a porch, but further down there is a brick porch and it appears to extend out about the same. It appears that there is porches with that same foot print.


Tim Schaffer stated, the house looks better than it did before. All of the neighbors said they would come up and support us, but we told them no. We have spent about $500,000 here in Monticello. We are not trying to hurt the community at all.


President Jerry Thompson asked, is there anything else?


Without further discussion the board voted.


The Board finds the following:


1. That the property is properly zoned R-2, One and Two Family Residential.


2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114.


3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.


4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.


5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.

6. That the request is for a 7’ front setback variance, a 5’ East side setback variance and a 7’ West side setback variance to build a roofed porch on the front of the home and to bring the home into compliance on Lot 58 in Dreifus and Haugh Addition to Monticello, Indiana.

COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located in the City of Monticello 610 W. Washington Street.

7. That the variances herein authorized and granted are not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make reasonable practicable the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variances are based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variances under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.

The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 5 affirmative and 0 negative.

****

#2317 Robert & Marilyn Thompson, Owner; Bruce & Sara High, Applicant; The property is located 33.50 feet off the entire East side of Lot 43 in the Original Plat in the Town of Chalmers at 202 S. Third Street.

Violation: None

Request: They are requesting an 18’ front (Third Street) setback variance to build an addition onto the existing business building.

President Jerry Thompson stated, I know these people and I do have a question. The owners are not being represented.

Bruce High stated, my name is Bruce High. I checked with the Area Plan Commission and they told me that as long as you had and should have, if not I have one, the offer to buy signed by both parties that I could represent myself for this.

President Jerry Thompson stated, we don’t have that.

Director Weaver stated, we didn’t send it to the board, but there is one in the file.

Bruce High stated, I’m Bruce High and I’m here to answer any questions that you might have about the variance. I live next door to the property that I want to buy. I have lived there for 22 years. We are going to maintain a nice corner lot there. It hasn’t always been so.

President Jerry Thompson asked, Diann do you have anything?

Director Weaver stated, we have had several phone calls on this and several inquiries. I have not received anything in writing. I’m not sure if there is anyone here in attendance. We have had several calls.

Carol Stradling stated, so this is a business building.

Bruce High stated, it is zoned business and the existing building was the United Telephone service phone office back when they maintained a presents in Chalmers. The present owner has used the building for storage, but that; there are two lots there. This is half of lot 43 and they are both zoned business. The gentleman that owned before ran a trucking outfit. The other lot that is adjacent there has been a body shop and a sign company that is presently vacant.

President Jerry Thompson stated, Charlie you are our historian, tell everyone what the building was used for.

Charles Mellon stated, it was the old Brookshire building.

President Jerry Thompson stated, no it was the telephone company. Tell them how it was used.

Charles Mellon stated, there was a trucking, bus.

President Jerry Thompson stated, no back up, you are not helping me here. There was an actual operator that worked there.

Charles Mellon stated, I must had left there by then.

Several talking at once.

President Jerry Thompson asked, is there any comments or questions either for or against the variance.

Nick Hammond stated, I’m Nick Hammond. I live in the Town of Chalmers, I work for Doug Barnard and they have purchased the old building.

Carol Stradling asked, did he swear in, can you get him sworn in?

Attorney Altman is currently swearing in Mr. Hammond.

Nick Hammond stated, my question was if the variance gets accepted does that change to a residential lot.

Bruce High stated, no, I’m not asking to change the zoning, I want it left business zoning.

Nick Hammond stated, okay that was my only question.

David Scott stated, since he is not the owner, but potential buyer. If we give this variance and if the sale does not got through, what happens to the variance? Is it null and void?

Attorney Altman stated, that should be one of the conditions for it.

Bruce High stated, for the record the sale has already, the conditions of the sale have been agreed by both parties. The money and the conditions of the sale will be complete upon the completion of the variance. I needed the variance to complete the sale.

President Jerry Thompson stated, right.

David S stated, I was just curious.

Carol Stradling stated, explain to me what is going on. Is that a warehouse next door?

Bruce High stated, it was a trucking company for a number of years. The guy stored semis, ran a trucking company out of it. It was a sign company most recently. Markovich ran the sign company and is now in Yeoman. It has been vacant for about two years.

Carol Stradling stated, it is zoned business and you are going to leave that building there.

Bruce High stated, I’m going to attach to the building.

Carol Stradling stated, you are going to add on. Are you saving it for sentimental reasons or?

Bruce High stated, hardly, I have lived there for 50 years. It is a real solid structure, no reason to tear it down.

Carol Stradling asked, can I ask what kind of business you are going to do?

Bruce High stated, right now we are leaning toward storage. We live on a corner lot with out much vehicle storage. We have looked around the Chalmers area to lease a place or to store a boat and so that is one idea that we have.

Carol Stradling stated, so is the storage-building, can we do that there.

Director Weaver stated, we have looked at that and you can do that there.

Carol Stradling asked, will it be a U storage place?

Bruce High stated, no, it will have a key and lease it just like a house or garage.

Carol Stradling stated, so it will be a self-storage building.

Bruce High stated, I guess I don’t know the difference. We really don’t know, that is just one of the ideas we have. I mean it is zoned business.

Director Weaver stated, a self-storage facility does go into a B-2.

Bruce High stated, right.

Carol Stradling stated, okay. How many garage spaces do you propose putting in there?

Bruce High stated, initially 3 or 4, we show a footprint to stay within. The foot print that Mr. Milligan put on there shows enough room for 7, would be the maximum.

Carol Stradling stated, so they would rent the space and you would provide the key.

Bruce High stated, yes.

Carol Stradling stated, they would access it when ever.

Bruce High stated, yes, if you had boat and wanted it stored for the winter, or a hot rod or something you only drove for a day.

President Jerry Thompson stated, he lives across the street, I don’t know if you picked that up or not.

Bruce High stated, I do live across the street.

President Jerry Thompson asked, Gary, Dave, or Dave any questions?

Without further discussion the board voted.

1. That the building site is currently zoned B-2, General Business.

2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114.

3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.

4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.

5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.

6. That the request is for an 18’ front (Third Street) setback variance to build an addition onto the existing business building on 33.50 feet off the entire East side of Lot 43 in the Original Plat of Chalmers, White County, Indiana.

COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located in the Town of Chalmers at 202 S. Third Street.

7. That the variance herein authorized and granted is not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make typical or recurrent the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said condition or situation of the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variance is based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variance under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.

The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 5 affirmative and 0 negative.

****

#2318 Warren A. & Joyce Brooke Stevens, Owner; Eric Holt, Applicant; The property is located on Lots 23, 24 and 25 in Sullivan’s Hillcrest Addition, North of Norway Dam at 2260 N. Sullivan Court.

Violation: None

Request: They are requesting a 7’9” height variance for a guesthouse on the property.

President Jerry Thompson asked, you are sir.

Eric Holt stated, I’m Eric Holt, Residential Design Services. I’m the Architect and representing the Steven’s.

President Jerry Thompson stated, here again, I’m going to ask the similar questions.

Director Weaver stated, I have sign application from the owners.

Eric Holt stated, he lives in Florida.

President Jerry Thompson asked, do you have anything else to add?

Eric Holt stated, no.

Director Weaver stated, we haven’t received anything from anyone.

President Jerry Thompson asked, is this on city water and sewer?

Eric Holt stated, it is currently on septic and well and we have been told that in a year by the Health Department he will have the city sewer. He is not sure if he is going to wait, or go through the regulations of updating the septic system to fit the guesthouse. We have not gotten that far yet, we want to see if we get the variance first before we would proceed with the final plans, building permit, or go to the Health Department. It is on a well.

President Jerry Thompson asked, does anyone have anything either for or against?

Dave Stimmel?

David Stimmel stated, curious about the height in relationship to the house itself.

Eric Holt stated, it is lower than the existing house I believe. He wants the guesthouse to be the same style, that is why we are applying for the variance.

Attorney Altman asked, how tall is the existing house?

Eric Holt stated, I do not know.

Carol Stradling stated, it is pretty tall.

Eric Holt stated, this is Tom Clapper house, it is known for the spiral chimney that goes up across from the Indiana Beach. The existing house is wider and deeper with the same pitch. In theory the peak of the existing house is taller. We have the existing plans back in the office in Lafayette.

David Stimmel stated, relatively speaking it is not taller.

Eric Holt stated, no.

President Jerry Thompson asked, Dave do you have anything? Gary? Carol?

Director Weaver stated, I have a question. The front of the guesthouse is it going to face the street or the other house?

Eric Holt stated, it is labeled here, the front elevation is going to face the street, what is labeled rear is going to face the front of the existing house.

President Jerry Thompson asked, is there anymore discussion?

Without further discussion the board voted.

The Board finds the following:

1. That the property is properly zoned L-1, Lake District


2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114.


3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.


4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.


5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.

6. That the request is for a 7’9” height variance for a guesthouse on Lots 23, 24 and 25 in Sullivan’s Hillcrest Addition in Union Township, White County, Indiana.

COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located North of Norway Dam at 2260 N. Sullivan Court.

7. That the variance herein authorized and granted is not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make typical or recurrent the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said condition or situation of the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variance is based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variance under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.

The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 5 affirmative and 0 negative.

****


Attorney Altman stated, okay, is there anything else?


President Jerry Thompson stated, yes, let Diann go.


Director Weaver stated, I sent to you a copy of this out of the building permit and I just sent that to you for your information. I have laying here a copy of a fax that Jerry let me send to you and it is regarding kennels. I wanted to know who the board or if the board had a preference for the August 26 meeting.


David Stimmel asked, what chooses do we have?


Director Weaver stated, the only ones that are taken are Jerry and Dow Dellinger.


Attorney Altman stated, I think so.


Director Weaver stated, I did talk to Lee Griffith and she will not represent us because she doesn’t feel that she had enough knowledge about or ordinance. I didn’t know if the board had a preference.


President Jerry Thompson asked, does the board want to stay within the County as much as possible?


David Scott stated, it is going to be hard to find someone with knowledge of the ordinance.


Carol Stradling stated, the other thing is that you need to find somebody that doesn’t have to recuse himself or herself. I don’t know what kinds of pet’s lawyers in White County have, but it is a common.


President Jerry Thompson stated, I wonder if it would be wise to go outside the county.


Attorney Altman stated, you will have the same problems as far as pets.


Carol Stradling stated, well at least then if it is outside of the county they are not in violation of our ordinance and we don’t have to…

David Scott asked, what about getting the attorney the represents the board in Tippecanoe County or one of the other counties that is familiar with basic law even though he wouldn’t be familiar with the book.


Attorney Altman stated, you saw Tippecanoe’s ordinance.


David Scott stated, yes.


Attorney Altman stated, that is all I’m saying, I’m chirping in here because it is a fact that you are saying to get Tippecanoe’s Lawyer.


President Jerry Thompson stated, we have used Joe Bumbleburg in the past for a couple of situations. He is the only one that comes to mind just because we have become aquatinted with him over a couple other situations.


David Scott asked, who is he?


Director Weaver stated, he is a lawyer in Lafayette that has quite a lengthy back ground with Area Plan.


Attorney Altman stated, oh yes, excellent choice.


Director Weaver stated, my personal opinion is he is very pleasant to work with. No offense to attorneys, but sometimes you have attorneys come in with an arrogance about them. He is very helpful if you don’t understand and he explains it.


President Jerry Thompson stated, since he has been here before he might be willing to return.


David Stimmel stated, explain to me why we would have to have another attorney, the only reason I’m asking is because some of the research work that we have done that speaks to this issue makes me wonder if it will be an issue that the board would even consider. Am I off base here Jerry?


Attorney Altman stated, I think that it is possible. It may, that with the research we are doing we may not even go there.


Carol Stradling stated, we may just dismiss it?


David Stimmel stated, I met with Jerry, can I talk about this.


Attorney Altman stated, sure, we were on the committee.


David Stimmel stated, we were on the committee. On the internet I did some searching just for animals, zoning ordinance, rabbits, and you name it. Come up with you know 2,000 hits. Take your top 5, 6, or 7 I think I went through 20 total. A lot of what I found was common was the fact that people dealt with this as a Health Department issues. In some cases specifically they regulated or licensed non commercial pets to the extent that every kid that is in 4-H has to go get a $5.00 non-commercial license for having a rabbitry like that every year.


Attorney Altman stated, it went up to 200 rabbits and before it became a licensed matter.


David Stimmel stated, what it had to do the...after it, it had to meet certain health standards. Like the gal who was here representing the fair board, is talking about having basic standard operating procedures and guidelines that the kids are suppose to follow. It seems to me that the Health Department would regulate that instead of coming through here.


Director Weaver asked, have we’ve been in touch with our Health Department?


David Stimmel stated, I’m just telling you what the things read, and what other places have done. What is the issue with the Health Department, no I haven’t been in touch with them.


Director Weaver stated, I don’t know if they are willing to do anything with the situation. I’m sure they are willing to do with the situation.


David Stimmel stated, the only reason, say it, it seems to me inappropriate almost for us to deal with it in that regard. Or we can wash our hands of it more completely by suggesting a different way of approaching it.


David Scott stated, the one I’m looking at taking bits and pieces out of, this is a city ordinance, not a zoning or county ordinance.


Director Weaver stated, I understand what you are saying that it should be a Health Department issue, but we need to make sure our Health Department is wanting to.


Carol Stradling asked, why do we need to make sure of that, I mean a speeding issue is a police issue, whether or not they deal with it I mean if they choose not to deal with it, we don’t need to deal with it.


David Stimmel stated, exactly.


David Scott asked, do we have laws for outside of the town, out in the county. That would be ours to regulate at that point.


Director Weaver stated, our ordinance is county wide, inside and outside the towns.


David Scott stated, as a town we have an ordinance book and we can write whatever out board wanted into the ordinance.


Carol Stradling stated, so it wouldn’t have to be a health department issue. It could be a city council issue and they could draft their own ordinance on how they want to deal with the number of animals in town.


David Scott stated, the only problem you run into is subdivision or something outside of the town. You might have someone start raising rabbits out there in subdivision or, I don’t know. What I really like in what I picked out of here is the person wanting to raise rabbits and you don’t even have to put a number on it, it is just anything over whatever our ordinance is now is 5 animals whatever it is 4 animals. They need to get annually a non-commercial permit to raise animals and along with that they have to meet, maintenance of the animals, that can’t constitute a nuisance, noise, smell, annoyance, or danger. Every time this permit is issued somebody goes out and checks their operations and this is an annual thing and you charge enough.


Director Weaver stated, through the Health Department.


David Scott stated, no, this is a city ordinance.


Carol Stradling stated, a city ordinance is enforced by the police department, so they would have the manpower.


David Scott stated, well, I don’t know.


David Stimmel stated, you dump this on someone other enforcement agency.


Director Weaver stated, well that is where I was coming from with the Health Department.


David Stimmel stated, I think it needs to be a collaborated effort, I think there is an issue to resolve. I think it is going to take more than just this board to do it.


Carol Stradling stated, I guess where I’m setting, our definition of a kennel would probably be appropriate for someone wanting to start a kennel where the board animals. I think it isn’t an appropriate definition for that because granted, typically it is dogs and cats. But sometimes it is guinea pigs, rabbits, and whatever pet you have that needs cared for over vacation can go to a kennel. That doesn’t mean that carries over to anytime you have more than 4 animals you have a kennel.


David Stimmel stated, however, by definition does it? Diann, it talks about any domestic animal etcetera, etcetera.


Carol Stradling stated, but I guess maybe what I was seeing was not, are you familiar with VIN diagrams.


David Stimmel asked, about what?


Carol Stradling stated, VIN diagrams, okay let's say you have a circle that falls and you have a circle of things the color of red, now if you have a red ball there is a part there that over laps. I think our definition for a kennel would apply for someone wanting to build a kennel, but there is part of that, that seems to over lap and ends up being a number of pets. Even if it wasn’t meant to define the number of pets being a kennel, it applies there. When they wrote the definition it applied for what they are trying to define. Unfortunately, we are trying to use that definition on something else.


David Scott stated, personally I wouldn’t care whether I lived in town, the township, or where it was, I wouldn’t care if my neighbor had 500 rabbits, if they were taken care of properly. If there were no nuisance, if they didn’t effect me I wouldn’t care how many they had.


Director Weaver stated, I think that is the key.


David Scott stated, I think just like I said if you have subdivision outside here, outside of a town or something you may run into this issue again. If we just write an ordinance or something that says anything over 4 animals, or rabbits or here they separate, they don’t even have the rabbits or foul in with the dogs and cats. It is a whole different thing.


Carol Stradling stated, but just like you said, you wouldn’t care unless they were not taken care of. That is more of a health issue, not a zoning issue, and we are the Board of Zoning Appeals, we are not a health department. We are not a police enforcement department, and what they are asking for is generally can you have more than 4 animals living in a neighborhood without causing a disturbance? Well, yeah.


David Scott stated, I agree with you.


President Jerry Thompson stated, any animal.


David Scott stated, except for…


Carol Stradling stated, said it can be done because it is very common Jerry.


President Jerry Thompson stated, where do you stop at, with animals, where do you stop at.


David Scott stated, I just hate when the buck gets passed around.


President Jerry Thompson stated, certainly.


David Stimmel stated, I agree, I agree, but I don’t know.


Several talking at once.


Attorney Altman stated, I guess what I’m saying, is that we are studying this and yet the other issue is and what Jerry brought up is getting a lawyer for the 26th.


Director Weaver stated, the thing is we need to do that now.


Attorney Altman stated, you need it now, you need that now. I guess what I’m saying is I think the committee would like to continue to examine from our point of view and I guess the board needs to figure out number one your 4 right now, you are not 5. The other thing is you do have something coming up, which doesn’t necessarily have to been on the 26th of April; you can continue it for an amount of time. I’m just talking out loud, not trying to be advocate on this either way, you can do that so you can see whether you want more time to think it over to study before you do.


David Scott stated, you are addressing this issue because of complaints coming out of Monon.


Director Weaver stated, I’m addressing because of complaints on that exact property.


David Scott stated, on that property. You know they had a variance here last week and there wasn’t one neighbor here against that variance.


President Jerry Thompson stated, that is right.


Director Weaver stated, not the variance no. I was contacted today who will be in attendance at the August 26th meeting.


David Scott stated, okay, good.


David Stimmel stated, that is because of what.


Director Weaver stated, because of the conditions.


David Scott asked, not the rabbits in particular?


Director Weaver stated, the number and the conditions of the property because of the rabbits.


David Stimmel asked, is it because of the manure issue?


Director Weaver stated, she didn’t say manure, but they are having problems with rodents.


David Stimmel stated, that is where we go in that directions it would be the same thing with hogs Jerry, like you mentioned. I will be honest with you it wouldn’t bother me if they were kept and the manure was taken care of, like another animal, you could have 4 or 5 4h hogs there, I don’t’ care.


Director Weaver stated, most towns will not allow it.


David Scott stated, the rabbit issue, maybe we just need to throw it out and not address it.


Attorney Altman stated, that is where you have to interpret it, it doesn’t say rabbits, it has a definition there and you have to figure out where rabbits is in that definitions. Again I’m trying not to be an advocate here, I’m just saying this is the issue.


Director Weaver stated, that is exactly the way I did it.


Gary Barbour stated, if you are getting complaints, what grounds can you throw it out.


David Stimmel stated, the complaints are not, should not be addressed by the Board of Zoning Appeals, they should be addressed by the Health department.

Attorney Altman stated, you need to decide if the species of "rabbit" is not a domesticated household animal.

David Scott stated, it is not in some uses.

Attorney Altman stated, I’m just saying that is the bases for it, is whether it is or isn’t and you have to really look at the definitions. Then you make your interpretation. Don’t get me wrong

President Jerry Thompson stated, let's back up here, I’ m still on the attorney. Is it fine with you, my attitude is I wouldn’t mind seeing Joe being contacted. After that it might be who ever she can get to say yes.

David Stimmel stated, yes.

David Scott stated, I guess my argument was so we wouldn’t have to get another lawyer. If you think we need to address it, then we need one. I think Gary thinks we need to go ahead with this.

Gary Barbour stated, I’m not saying one way or another, until we really set and listen to all of the evidence. I’m not.

President Jerry Thompson stated, you know we are going to have a house full.

Gary Barbour stated, I’m sure it is going to be a full house, I really don’t want to go in there without my guns loaded.

President Jerry Thompson stated, unprotected.

David Scott stated, but most of the people here will be for the, it will be the same people.

Director Weaver stated, remember they stated in that last meeting they were not necessary in favor of individuals, they were concerned about the situation and the interpretation of the ordinance.

David Stimmel stated, which they should be, it is no difference then…

Several talking at once.

David Stimmel stated, Gary to me it is no different, than someone coming to the police department and expecting them to enforce a restraining order that they are in the wrong spot. That is the point that I’m trying to make. I think these people may be in the wrong spot, if this is truly a manure issue or something like this. Broadly interpreted yes, it might include rabbits in the zoning laws, but it maybe the wrong place to try and get something enforce, if you have a manure problem. That maybe something that the county Health department should be addressing.

Director Weaver stated, well I guess that is why I asked, if anyone had contacted the Health Department just to see what their stand is or maybe they have addressed the situation before.

David Stimmel stated, I’m going to do that, I guarantee by the next week I will have talked to the Health Department.

Attorney Altman stated, the other agency you might consider is…

Several talking at once.

Director Weaver stated, another one that should be contacted and has been in contact with these people is and visited the property is the Animal Control officer out at the Sheriff Department, Dave Roth.

David Stimmel asked, Dave who?

Director Weaver stated, Dave Roth.

Attorney Altman stated, okay are we done with this? Real quick I wanted to say obviously you got the copy of what Judge Thacker said on the TPW, what I’m doing is getting ready a proposed findings of fact and address what he is asking for and we will present it at the August meeting. I will have this in the mail for Diann’s mailing.

Director Weaver stated, I don’t think that is time. August is out of that time frame.

Attorney Altman stated, I’ll look at that.

Director Weaver stated, I may be wrong about that.

Attorney Altman stated, I will check into that.

Director Weaver stated, I have something to say. I want to apologize to the board about the Schaffer/Roberts issue, the man was very nasty to me and accused me of harassing him and the reason the property was noticed was because my mother lives a block down the street. I wasn’t out looking for violations and the man got nasty with me and they have been to you guys before and they knew the procedures that should have been taken. They have had variance before. He was very nasty to me.

President Jerry Thompson asked, is there anything else? You mentioned that there could be two meetings in July.

Director Weaver stated, there could be, we haven’t had a cut off and we have had a lot of people in.

President Jerry Thompson stated, while we are here and working around the county fair, if you have a preference for the second meeting, the first one would fall on the 15th of July and obviously the fair is the week.

Gary Barbour asked, does it have to be on a Thursday night?

Director Weaver stated, no that is when the room is open.

Gary Barbour stated, why don’t we find a night that it is open? Having it during the week of the fair, that is crazy.

Director Weaver stated, if we have it the week of the fair I won’t be here, we have a horse show that night. My thought would be the following Thursday, which would be the 29th. We could possibly put it in earlier than that. It is strictly up to you.

President Jerry Thompson stated, two weeks later. Will anybody be gone?

Carol Stradling stated, so far it is fine, I can’t say for sure.

Director Weaver stated, this is not cut and dried, we have not had our cut off yet. We have had a lot of people in saying they needed variances, so.

President Jerry Thompson asked, is there anything else?

The meeting adjourned.

Respectfully submitted,

Gary Barbour, Secretary

Diann Weaver, Director

White County Area Plan Commission