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March 19, 2001 Tape #006

The White County Drainage Board convened at 10:30 A.M. in the Commissioners’ Room of the White County Building, Monticello, Indiana with Board Members Ronald Schmierer, John C. Heimlich and O. D. Ferguson, Attorney George W. Loy, Surveyor Rick Raderstorf, Engineer Todd Frauhiger and Secretary Romana Kiser in attendance.

Also attending were Attorney Jerry Altman, Attorney John T. Million, Doug Motel, Bob Dungan, Russ Sickler, Mike Lehe, Dave Hall, Ron Allen, Doug Barnard, Tom Wagner, Mitchell Billue, Charles Mellon and Jerry Cook.

Chairman Schmierer opened the meeting and recognized Ron Allen, Wolf Ditch Commissioner. Attorneys and several board members of the Wolf Ditch and the Dolick Ditch were in attendance to discuss jurisdictions from County Road 300 East on to the river. Ron Allen explained that they want to know what the County Drainage Board’s position is on the jurisdiction at present. He said, “Is that an area that anyone has jurisdiction over at the present time?” Chairman Schmierer answered, “I don’t think anybody does. We had the same thing with the Carter Ditch. It wasn’t paid on from CR 300 E (to the river) either. I think what we have to do on that is have a public hearing to assess those people.” Attorney Loy asked, “You have your own board, right?” Attorney Altman’s answer was yes; those Boards are appointed by the County Commissioners.

Board Member Heimlich said, “The question was from Rangeline (CR 300 E) to the lake (Shafer) there’s no assessment. That’s the question, is it regulated or not? The Carter Ditch WAS regulated and it was ours, but there wasn’t any assessment east of Sixth Street.”

Attorney Loy stated, “You need to review the Orders creating your Board and review the legal description of what your drain actually consists of.” Attorney Altman quoted Indiana statute 14-25-8-3 that says that they in essence have the jurisdiction over the drainage system that is a part of a dredged drain, and that is basically their jumping off jurisdiction point. He said, “The statute talks about the system, but it goes back to a dredged drain and we certainly have evidence on the banks east of County Road 300 E going quite a ways across County Road 225 going back east, then across the east west road there all the way almost to Indiana Beach. You see on the banks that there has been some dredging, some removal of dirt.” Attorney Loy asked, “By whom?” Attorney Altman said, “That’s a good question.” Attorney Loy asked if it was a long time ago. Attorney Altman answered yes.

Board Member Heimlich stated, “Another issue that has come up…. with development going in just east of the Rangeline (CR 300 E), dumping a lot of water into the watershed but not being assessed. Actually with that one, the water actually comes back across the road and empties into the ditch on the west side of the road (CR 300 E), the water from that development, but the development is currently not assessed.” Surveyor Raderstorf stated that development (Ted Nichols proposed Deer Run subdivision) IS assessed on the Joseph Kellenburger Drain but evidently not on the Honey Creek Drain.

Attorney Loy stated, “They would go through the hearing process, similar to what we do, if you are convinced that you know what the route of the drain is and that you have evidence of other owners in the watershed that ought to be contributing and are not.” Attorney Altman said, “I think is basically what we feel like is true right now from a factual point of view.” Board Member Heimlich said, “I think they want to make sure that it wasn’t a situation where we had jurisdiction east of the Rangeline (CR 300 E) and they didn’t.” Attorney Altman stated that they wanted the Drainage Board to know what their questions were since we appoint their members.

Russ Sickler stated that they have a similar situation with the Dolick Ditch up on the Rangeline where the water crosses at Lloyd Clerget’s and comes back to the west. They aren’t assessed on it. Chairman Schmierer said they should be, that’s why you have to have a hearing to assess those people whose water is coming in to there. He said he wouldn’t see any reason why they couldn’t assess those people. Russ asked, “Where do you think we should stop? No one knows where we should stop down there, at times we’ve done work just to keep everyone happy but no one has jurisdiction on that east of the Rangeline.”

Chairman Schmierer asked, “That’s a manmade ditch isn’t it?” Attorney John T. Million stated, “The history of it is in 1949 the Vincent W. Dolick maintenance district was created by a petition for private drain, and at that time the petition was served in court. The original attorney for that was Bob Million, and Vince Dolick was the prime mover to get that going. It was basically an overlay of the old Hoagland drainage system which had been a dredged drain for many years prior to that. No one knows exactly how many. The authority of the map of the Vincent W. Dolick made its district begin at the Rangeline Road and go west from there. There was a reconstruct in approximately 1956, that’s the last actual reconstruction of that ditch I think that took place. That was where the original assessment role and land area came from. Then if you recall there was a tri-county commission established that they were going to take the old Dolick and Hoagland Drain and they were going to expand it there. They were going to dredge I think south of Monon and three counties were involved. About the time they were going to start, had the engineering done, the other two counties decided they didn’t want to go forward with it and backed out. We used that assessment role to upgrade our assessment role in terms of the assessments for maintenance on the Dolick Ditch, but we have NEVER, as far as the Dolick Ditch is concerned, had authority EAST of the Rangeline Road, because that is a private drain created by petition to the court. The original maps and everything start at the Rangeline and go west. The old Hoagland, of course, went on but that was never part of the Dolick and those people were never assessed on the Dolick. Even under the modern reconstruct they weren’t assessed on the Dolick.”

Chairman Schmierer stated, “I don’t see any reason they can’t petition that to do that and go ahead and assess those, in fact if you are taking care of it down there I see no reason for you not to assess them. If you’re fixing the ditch down there for your outlet, but they’re getting the benefit of it, too.”

Attorney Million stated, “Our position has always been…anything that wasn’t us WAS County’s (Chairman Schmierer said, “But we don’t do anything on it.”) so basically from us on east was part of the County drain, we basically enter in to the old County Hoagland.” Board Member Ferguson said, “What it is, is private drain then.” Board Member Heimlich said, “I don’t know, you’d have to go back to the time when that was originally dug. I know in some cases, ditches that I know of that were dug…. in the area closest to whatever they empty in to, sometimes those people or maybe just one individual, wasn’t assessed because he said ‘well, I’m right here at the outlet anyway but I’ll let you come through here as long as I’m not assessed’ and that could be what happened in this case, too. But then, you’re talking fifty years down the line you have a lot of development going in those areas and they’re dumping a lot more water than they did back then. Things change. That could be why that area east wasn’t regulated in the beginning or wasn’t assessed.”

Attorney Million referred to a series of meetings held three to five years ago by Joe Roach of SFLECC dealing with problems in that area, trying to get an agreement with people there, to form some kind of a watershed association, but nothing ever came of it.

Chairman Schmierer stated, “If you could just get a landowners list and hold a hearing and petition to take it on down the rest of the way.”

Attorney Loy said, “Follow the procedure under Title XIV for assessments. Jerry (Altman) I think you’re saying you think the definition of the drain includes that section going on down, those people just weren’t assessed.” Attorney Altman answered, “Yes, it talks about a drainage system. It does fall back on a dredged ditch. The question is, is how far does the system go and we certainly don’t need to be in an area where the County Drainage Board is actively involved or feel like they want to be actively involved in.”

Board Member Heimlich said he doesn’t think it makes sense to have two different (drainage) boards on the same ditch. Ron Allen stated that there is potential for (drainage) problems east of CR 300 E. He asked if something like that happens, who has jurisdiction? Chairman Schmierer said he would suggest that they petition to take it under their wing. He said that (area) is going to grow up and grow up and they’re going to have more drainage coming in to it and they’re going to get more water than they did as farm ground.

Dave Hall asked, “What about the silt traps, is that under a whole different area?” Chairman Schmierer said that is controlled by the lake association and we don’t have anything to do with those silt traps. Attorney Million said they installed them on both ditches (Wolf and Dolick). He said, “Actually, we didn’t work with them at all, they just did it.” Dave Hall wanted to know if they (ditch boards) would have any maintenance responsibility on them. Attorney Loy said Joe Roach could answer that question. Chairman Schmierer said he couldn’t see how they would have.

Board Member Heimlich said, “I think what we are saying is that you are not stepping on our toes, we don’t consider that (east of Rangeline Road) our jurisdiction.”

Charlie Mellon said maybe the other ditch boards didn’t think they’d have as much authority as the County Drainage Board enforce the collection of it through taxes. Chairman Schmierer said that they have just as much authority to collect taxes as we do. Charlie Mellon said that from CR 300 E on down, the old timers said there’s always plenty of fall, that’s the reason probably that it wasn’t set up on assessments.

Attorney Altman said, “A real issue here, where the system is no longer a dredged drain. It’s kind of what you’re saying, Charlie, where we can show evidence on the bank of it being dredged or dirt taken out…where it does or doesn’t….and I guess if we are beyond that, it seems to me it would be the County Drainage Board that would be involved in that.” Board Member Ferguson said, “Right there at Jerry Brown’s where it comes under that bridge, it doesn’t look like it’s ever been a dredged ditch, it looks like a natural ditch there, really.” Attorney Altman said, “But yet, when you go on further toward the lake there’s some areas that look like somebody did some dredging, I don’t mean a lot, not like we have further west, but there’s SOME evidence of it.”

Russ Sickler asked, “What about Spackman (Indiana Beach), down there where he has all of his drains come in, does anybody know anything about that?” Chairman Schmierer said, “That’s on your ditch (Dolick)” Russ Sickler said, “It is on the other end (east end), that’s what I’m asking, is there anybody that has ever been involved in that, the County Surveyor?” Chairman Schmierer stated he did not think that we have. Surveyor Raderstorf said we don’t have any jurisdiction over any of that, either one of those ditches, the way I understand. Chairman Schmierer said, “IDEM has probably been in on that more than anybody out there with Spackman and what he’s doing, I’m sure he has to get IDEM permits with what he’s doing because that water is so close to the lake.” Attorney Loy said that he knows that Spackman has an IDEM permit with lots of conditions.

Russ Sickler asked, “Where do you think we should have a stopping point then as far as our….inaudible…Dolick Ditch, where would you stop? Would you stop before you get to the lake or right at the lake? Where IS that? See, that’s the question in my mind, where is the backwaters of that lake? How far do we go? That’s the same way they are (Wolf Ditch). That’s the reason I asked the question about Spackman.”

Chairman Schmierer asked Tom Wagner, soil and water conservationist, to comment on that subject. Tom Wagner stated, “I think it should probably go to where the SFLECC owns the old Public Service land, that’s where the water is backed up to. They do have surveys of where that water is backed up so far.” Chairman Schmierer stated, “You heard what he said then, you can go to the SFLECC and get the boundary lines on what NIPSCO used to own. So that will give you some place to go to as far as I’m concerned because the rest of it is backup waters they’re claiming. That’s what I would try to do.”

Ron Allen said, “Then Rick (Surveyor Raderstorf) we’d need your help to determine what land was actually benefited by the drain (Wolf Ditch) as we go east of CR 300 E.” Surveyor Raderstorf answered, “If we have anything in that area, like the Kellenburger, we should have maps showing where it goes over.”

Mike Lehe asked, “What kind of rights do the landowners have when you have this hearing for assessment?” Attorney Loy answered they should talk to their lawyer about that, they have their own set of statutes that Mr. Altman is aware of. Attorney Altman stated that you have to prove that you are really benefited and weigh the damages and benefits to get your assessment.

Attorney Million stated, “The first thing we have to do is to convince the court, since we are a private drain, that we’re deserving of authority, however far we go, to assess those people. Because right now we don’t have any legal authority east of the Rangeline so we would have to establish that, probably petition to expand our drainage eastward.”

Board Member Heimlich asked if that was the same way with the Wolf Drain. Attorney Altman said that the statute just says that our watershed would be in the system associated with the dredged ditch. Surveyor Raderstorf stated, “We don’t have a watershed map on your ditch, but what (information) we have might help you get yours.”

Attorney Million said, “We may need stipulation of some sort from you to the affect that you are not claiming jurisdiction over that portion and that you are not asking or joining in our petition, that you don’t feel it is necessary or prudent to have a county drain for that short distance and then a private drain on west of there. We might have to present something like that to the court because the inclination of the court is to assume that by the grandfathering action, the creation of the County Drainage Boards throughout the state, you acquire jurisdiction to everything that wasn’t already private.” Attorney Loy stated he does not have a problem with that.

Surveyor Raderstorf proposed setting new maintenance rates on the A. K. Ruth Drain in Monon Township, White County, Indiana. Surveyor Raderstorf reviewed on a map the location of the drain and stated that property owner Kesler was in wanting to get it dredged out. He stated, “There is $1,800.00 in the maintenance fund and they haven’t done any work on the drain for at least 7 or 8 years, therefore it is not being collected on currently. The work they want to do is going to cost about $2,000.00 and will put it in debt. We found a couple of errors in the assessment anyway. They’re paying 50 cents an acre now and $5.00 a lot, that’s why we suggested raising that. We’re not going to put it in debt too far, but we need to get it out of debt and then build up some money so we can get it sprayed and have some money to work with.”

Chairman Schmierer stated, “You are proposing to raise it to $1.00 an acre and $7.00 a lot, and I think that’s fair.” Surveyor Raderstorf said he didn’t see how we can not raise the lots. Chairman Schmierer stated the lots should be raised to $10.00 as far as he is concerned, particularly down at Thomasville. Chairman Schmierer asked the Board if they wanted to set the lot rates at $7.00 or $10.00. Surveyor Raderstorf stated that the last maintenance modification he did on lots, we raised the lots proportionately to what we raised the acreage. Chairman Schmierer said, “You are doubling the acreage so you should double the lots.” The Board Members were in agreement.

Board Member Heimlich made a motion to set the maintenance rate on the A. K. Ruth Drain in Monon Township, White County, Indiana at $1.00 an acre and $10.00 a lot. Board Member Ferguson seconded the motion. The motion carried unanimously.

Developer Bob Dungan, representing Dr. Charles Tribbett and Johnson-Tribbett Subdivision. Mr. Dungan explained that he had two buildings ready to start in that subdivision right now, Aardvark is building on Sixth Street just south of the medical center and he is building a building at the northwest corner of Fisher and Sixth Street.

Bob Dungan stated, “We would like to be able to gain building permits, go ahead and start construction and work in conjunction with the drainage project that we are putting in. A couple of problems that have arrived, one is the weather; the ground is pretty wet out there. To do the drainage project, we’ve got to at the north end of that thirty inch tile (Altman Tile). Actually we are starting a hundred foot north of the end of the tile. So, I notified Rick (County Surveyor) about two to three weeks ago that that tile was washing in. When they installed that tile, they left a big hole at the end of it and now everything is washed in and it is now filled up. Rick got on it right away and had Segal’s go out to start cleaning out that tile. Sounds like it apparently has turned in to more of a job than they anticipated, sounds like the tile is full quite a ways down through there, or almost to the top. Segal’s advised Blackman, our excavator that’s got equipment out there now ready to go, that where we’re going to cut into that tile, they want to slice that tile and put a manhole there. Segal’s started two weeks ago, maybe, and has not been back, consequently we’re sitting. We have to wait until Segal gets his work done.”

Surveyor Raderstorf stated, “He’s done with what he was ordered to do. He was to repair that end and that is what he did.” Bob Dungan said that Segal’s tells them that tile is packed. Surveyor Raderstorf said, “It is at the end, we don’t have any idea how far down. I have spoken with a couple of people and as soon as we get something settled, they are going to go out there and clean it.” Chairman Schmierer said, “They are going to power wash it, get the sand out of it, that’s what they’re doing. We’re just waiting on that to get done; it will probably get done this week if the weather permits us.” Surveyor Raderstorf said that will be the biggest thing, they have to be able to get the truck out there.

Charlie Mellon asked how far north of where that hole was are they going to cut in to the tile. Bob Dungan answered that he did not know for sure. He said, “We have the drainage staked out and we’re ready to go. We’re going to have to start, because of the dampness, at the north end of that tile and dig a swale all the way through where that detention or retention area is, and go all the way south, passed Aardvark to the south end of Tribbett’s property and then come back and put the retention pond in. That gives the water some place to go for them. What we’re suggesting is we would not ask for an occupancy permit to do this. In other words, if we could get a building permit we could go ahead and build. Blackman’s is stating it is going to take about three weeks to do the drainage. So, obviously the drainage is going to be done long before either one of us is ready for an occupancy permit and we’d put that in writing to submit with the building permit or however you would want to do it. So, I am just asking for an appeal on your original decision. Could both parties gain a building permit so we could get started, not asking for an occupancy permit until the drainage is done.”

Chairman Schmierer stated, “The opinion of the Board is, we’ve been giving permits before the drainage is done and we’ve had a hard time getting drainage finished. So, consequently, we have taken a stand that the drainage will be finished before we issue a building permit. You know, you’ve had the drainage permit for two years so they’ve had time to get it done. The weather hasn’t been bad for two years, Bob.”

Bob Dungan answered, “I understand that, but when we applied for that drainage permit, Ron, what we did and it should be on the minutes, when we came for approval for a drainage permit we explained at that time we did not want to put that drainage in until we started selling lots, because that plan could have changed. Somebody could have bought the whole south half of that property and then obviously the whole drainage package would have probably changed at that time; they would have put in a larger detention pond or whatever. We were told at that time that wouldn’t be a problem. We have not sold any lots until just now and that’s the reason, you know, and with weather and everything, too. I guess my reaction to that would be, what would it matter as long as we couldn’t occupy the building until the drainage was in? I can understand if we built the building and didn’t put the drainage in, or maybe didn’t finish it until next summer or whatever, I can understand you being upset like that. But when it is a situation where we cannot move into the building, we cannot occupy the building until it is in, it’s obvious we have to have our drainage in before….”

Chairman Schmierer answered, “Well that’s the position we have taken on them, is the drainage has to be in before we issue a building permit and that’s the position we’ve taken on them and we presently have some drainage that’s needing finished up and cleaned up and we have some that’s built and the drainage hasn’t been completed on. I understand what you’re saying about the occupancy, but the position the Drainage Board has taken, the drainage will be in before we issue a building permit. It has come back to bite us and we’re not going to let it bite us again. Are you in agreement with that or not?” Board Member Heimlich stated, “Well, whether it is occupied or not, it’s contributing to the problem for any neighbors in the development. That’s the whole idea behind the (Drainage) Ordinance is to prevent problems for the neighbors.”

Bob Dungan asked, “If that’s the case, then what can we do to move forward, to tap into that tile, are we going to have to sit and wait until….” Surveyor Raderstorf answered, “Tap into it. We’ll clean out what sand is in it, you don’t have to wait on that. If we don’t have it done, we’ll do it when we get there.” Bob Dungan answered that was fine, he wasn’t aware he could do that.

Chairman Schmierer recognized Monticello City Parks Superintendent Mitch Billue. Mr. Billue presented a review of work completed on the drainage on the Buss Ditch through the Monticello City Park and showed pictures of how erosion was in the park and pictures of two structures that have been completed and plans for a third structure that they are working on now. He explained that working with Soil and Water Conservationist Tom Wagner and the SFLECC, they have accomplished a lot. He reported that the new structures have eliminated the erosion. He stated that the estimate for all three structures and lining 475 yards of bank with stone was $58,905.54 and they had pledges of $10,000.00 from the Soil and Water Conservation, $30,000.00 from SFLECC and $14,000.00 from the City Parks fund. Mr. Billue said to date he vindicated what they have accomplished down there and it is doing a tremendous job. The total expense to date is $52,513.20. Mr. Billue said that with part of their 519 Grant they are looking to establish a final structure on the stream just above Dodge Camp and also down at the lower part where it is really steep on both sides of the bank they are going to put in lunkers to eliminate erosion that is occurring at the mouth of the stream. Mr. Billue and Mr. Wagner are requesting help with the rest of the project.

Tom Wagner said that they have to come up with about $18,000.00 matching money to continue their grant and they are asking the Drainage Board to help with the funding. He explained, “Your outlet between the highway and the lake, there is no maintenance whatsoever. It is not a regulated drain, it’s just a drain and your County drain empties into it. So to help the park out, we were wondering if you would help. From the State highway we’re putting some log structures plus the big structure at the end which that structure is somewhere between $10, 000.00 and $12, 000.00, plus the earth work and the channel work above it.” Mitch Billue stated that they need $8000.00 for the structure materials.

Chairman Schmierer said, “So what you need from us is $8,000.00?” Tom Wagner said, “Whatever you see fit we would appreciate because it’s your……you know the development Walmart, your Brandywine and housing addition on Gordon Road, those are increasing the waters and we’re trying to prevent the erosion down through the park and they had it all lined at one time but over the years it has decayed and it’s like a car you need to do maintenance on it.’’

Board Member Heimlich asked how much money was in the Buss Ditch maintenance fund. Surveyor Raderstorf answered there is $10,100.00. He said we have some tile outlets in a rock chute to repair on it, it takes in about $3,000.00 a year and normally the spring draw is usually the bigger one and it’s usually around $2,000.00.

Chairman Schmierer said, “I’d hate to give up the $10.000.00, what do you think, can we see fit to give up $5,000.00 and still have enough to do the rest of the work we need to do?” Surveyor Raderstorf answered, “Yes, I think with giving up $5,000.00 and repairing what we have to do we are probably going to be close but then we are getting ready for a spring draw, too.” Chairman Schmierer asked if the Board could give them an answer in two weeks. Mr. Wagner and Mr. Billue agreed that would be alright.

Tom Wagner asked if the assessments had been changed from agriculture to business on the Walmart and Brandywine Complex properties. Chairman Schmierer answered that they have not been put on any special assessments yet that he knows of, they are still paying agriculture rate, with the parking lot run off it has to be changed. Board Member Heimlich said, “You have to understand that water isn’t all going in there because of their retention pond, they’re releasing it slower.” Tom Wagner said, “It does get there, the peak is not as high, the duration is what kills you, the length of time it flows.”

Surveyor Raderstorf stated, “It is going to cost us roughly $5,000.00 or $6,000.00 for that repair work we need on there now.” Attorney Loy asked if the work at the park would be bid, because it has to be bid for the County to pay on it. The answer was that it will be bid. Surveyor Raderstorf restated that our actual regulation on the Buss Ditch stops at the highway, so those structures aren’t actually on the regulated part but on the outlet part. Board Member Ferguson said, “But the water from the regulated part is what’s doing the damage down there.”

Attorney Loy asked, “After it all clears on this, do we want to extend our regulation?” Surveyor Raderstorf said, “It was just extended, it used to end somewhere else and I’m thinking it was extended from the old Lucy place up to the highway at sometime.” Board Member Ferguson said that might have been when they put that big pipe down through there. Surveyor Raderstorf said they did that project in the early l980’s.

Chairman Schmierer stated, “Two weeks isn’t going to make or break your project, we need to see where we’re on money and we will readdress this at the next meeting and give you an answer.”

Chairman Schmierer addressed the subject of Walmart asking for their Letter of Credit to be released. He stated, “I thought we made it clear that we weren’t going to release any drainage plans for that building (proposed Murphy Oil station) until the drainage was fixed.” Secretary Kiser explained that Area Plan Director Diann Weaver came to the Surveyor’s office and reported that Walmart is wanting their Letter of Credit released. She said that they explained to her that as far as their drainage being completed, it is completed but there is that problem. So, do we tell her to release the Letter of Credit or not? Engineer Frauhiger suggested that what could be done is to release a portion of it, excepting perhaps $30,000.00 or $50,000.00 of it, whatever we think the repairs will cost.

Attorney Loy stated he is inclined to say do not release any part of it. Chairman Schmierer said as far as he is concerned we can just notify by mail that we will release the Letter of Credit when the drainage is repaired. They have had time to do it. It was decided that Diann Weaver should notify them.

Board Member Heimlich made a motion to approve the minutes from the March 5, 2001 meeting. Board Member Ferguson seconded the motion. The motion carried.

Engineer Frauhiger recommended approval for the drainage plans for the Apostolic Church World Relief Distribution Center project north of Wolcott on CR 900 West. They are proposing a detention pond with 2,200 feet of storm sewer down into the existing Stoller Open Ditch. They are going to take it all the way to the ditch and they have secured easements all the way down to the ditch and the Surveyor’s office has copies of the easements. It is being approved with a twelve inch smooth core pipe, which is how they are going to bid it.

Board Member Ferguson made a motion to approve the site drainage plans for the Apostolic Christian Church World Relief project in Princeton Township. Board Member Heimlich seconded the motion. The motion carried unanimously.

Engineer Frauhiger and Surveyor Raderstorf reviewed that the preliminary engineering is done on the Ackerman Drain in preparation for a public hearing for reconstruction. Surveyor Raderstorf stated that to do what the landowners want to do, it is not going to be cost affective. Engineer Frauhiger said it is not just a simple dredge; the county will have to lower a structure, six or seven branches need reconstructed to lower all branches. He suggests that the main channel be the first project and each branch done separately afterwards. Surveyor Raderstorf thinks they would be better off to go in and dip it back to what it originally was and then dip the branches, all for less than it would cost to drop the one two feet. Chairman Schmierer said he thinks we need to have a landowners’ meeting before having a hearing so they will know costs involved. Everyone was in agreement.

Chairman Schmierer adjourned the meeting.