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April 2, 2001 Tape #007

The White County Drainage Board convened at 10:30 A.M. in the Commissioners’ Room of the White County Building, Monticello, Indiana with Board Members Ronald Schmierer, O. D. Ferguson and John Heimlich, Attorney George W. Loy, Surveyor Rick Raderstorf, Engineer Todd Frauhiger and Secretary Romana Kiser in attendance.

Others attending the meeting were Mark Hines, Mrs. McKillip, Mrs. Holcomb, Bob Dungan, Jamie P. Rough, Michael Davis and Charlie Mellon.

Chairman Schmierer opened the Maintenance Modification Hearing on the E. F. Fry Drain in Cass Township, White County and Boone Township, Cass County, Indiana. Cass County waived their rights to joint board for the maintenance modification.

Surveyor Raderstorf explained the plan is to dredge the ditch out under maintenance, and depending on the bids that come in, raise the maintenance rate to $3.00 an acre for three years and then drop it down to $1.00 an acre. It is currently only assessed at fifty cents an acre.

Landowner Mark Hines stated that sounded reasonable to him. He was also representing Mrs. McKillip.

Surveyor Raderstorf stated, “When we go through there and dredge it, I think there’s some brush on it, then we will also take care of any tile outlets that are broken down, try to get it in good shape at that point.” Mark Hines asked, “The plan is to go from the road to the east, is that correct?” Surveyor Raderstorf answered yes, he doesn’t think we will need to go west of the road at this point. Mrs. Holcomb asked what they were going to do about the trees that are fallen down in the ditch. Mark Hines said there is a big tree still in there on the west side of the road down by her house. Surveyor Raderstorf said, “Yes, that’s grown up there, too. As far as the flow through there, there’s plenty of fall but we should probably clean out the trees that are in there that need taken out so they won’t disturb the flow. We’ll set that all up on the contract.”

Mark Hines commented, “On up on Williamson there is a crossing that will have to be… you think they’ll have to lower that crossing?” Landowner Mike Davis answered, “It may or may not have to be, it just depends on ……it’s so deep right now that it’s like a three foot culvert and it’s buried that (illustrated) deep right now. I don’t know how full of mud it is, we may have to clean it out.” Surveyor Raderstorf said, “We probably won’t be lowering it, because under maintenance all we can do is take it down to original flow line. If we start doing any deviation of that then it is called redesign and we have to go another route (reconstruction).” Mike Davis said the only question he has is that it might be full of dirt and have to be cleaned out. Surveyor Raderstorf stated that we will do that, if it is clear full it probably won’t clean itself out.

Chairman Schmierer asked for a motion to increase the maintenance rate of the drain. Board Member Heimlich made a motion to adopt the schedule of modified assessments proposed by the Surveyor, to raise the maintenance rate on the E. F. Fry Drain to $3.00 an acre for three years and then drop the rate to $1.00 an acre. Board Member Ferguson seconded the motion. The motion carried unanimously. A copy of the Findings and Order will be sent to each landowner.

Surveyor Raderstorf stated that he would get a set of specs and maps together for each contractor and he would be sending a letter to each landowner on the ditch giving them a chance to respond before the job is bid.

Chairman Schmierer readdressed the Buss Ditch and City Park project. The Board was in agreement to give the project $2,500.00 when they have an acceptable bid and the other $2,500.00 later if we have it. Board Member Ferguson so moved and Board Member Heimlich seconded the motion. The motion carried unanimously.

Engineer Frauhiger submitted the drainage plans for Tri County School for a gymnasium and parking lot for approval. He stated that it will be a total of 23,000 square feet of rooftop and asphalt. Engineer Frauhiger explained that he and Surveyor Raderstorf met on site with their design firm when they were doing the survey for it. There is really no fall from the school to the legal County ditch, but there is a fairly good defined swale that goes back and matches up with the flow line of the ditch. The plan is to widen their existing swale so their detention would be there and put an outlet control structure in to limit the flow and back it up into the swale that they widen before they release it into our ditch. Engineer Frauhiger stated that the plans are ready for approval from the Board.

Board Member Heimlich made a motion to approve the drainage plan for the Tri County School gymnasium and parking lot project as presented by Engineer Frauhiger. Board Member Ferguson seconded the motion. The motion carried unanimously.

Engineer Frauhiger presented the drainage plans for Lt. 3 Johnson-Tribbett Subdivision. In summary Engineer Frauhiger explained, “Last Tuesday Bob Dungan, myself and their engineer Paul Couts met to go over the entire situation of what’s going on with the Johnson-Tribbett Industrial Subdivision and also what they had found during construction about the Altman Drain. It appears that the Altman Drain, at the tie in point that we approved, is higher than the upstream end of the Altman Drain. Either the pipes have floated up where we’re tying into it or it sunk at the upstream end. About a month ago someone discovered a washout at the upstream end where a temporary plug they had put on the end failed and sucked a bunch of sand into the pipe. There’s a hump in the tile, we are still in the process of trying to figure that out. One thing we know, eventually we are going to have to fix the Altman Drain. Where Bob Dungan’s construction company tried to tie into the drain there is about sixteen inches of sand in the pipe. They brought the bottom of the pipe up, which basically after Paul redid the calculations, they lost a little bit of freeboard but I’m still happy with the freeboard that’s in the pond. Bob Dungan submitted to me plans for Lot 3, which I reviewed and as far as the drainage goes it is fine. They are constructing the open ditch that will go through the industrial park. How far are you now, Bob?”

Bob Dungan stated, “The ditch is in, they’re leveling out the sides now. The tie-in to the thirty inch tile is done. We have to go back and dig the detention pond and we’re going to have to, it appears we may have to lower the waterline right there. Although, the drainage tile will actually sit on top of that line, so not sure if we’re going to have to do that or not.”

Engineer Frauhiger said, “We’re going to have to lower it, our concern is that pipe is open at both ends. It’ll get air in it and the frost line can still get down to the pipe and there’s not enough clearance. I’m afraid that the point load on the pipe will cause that waterline to break a joint.” Bob Dungan said his plumber is out there today to determine how far back he’s going to have to dig on both sides to lower that.

Engineer Frauhiger asked, “Do you have a time frame? My understanding is that he is leveling the sides now and my understanding from you and from the contractor is that he is going to move directly back and start widening the detention pond.” Bob Dungan answered that they were hoping to start today. Engineer Frauhiger stated, “So it shouldn’t be more than a couple of weeks before that detention pond is dug I would say.” Bob Dungan answered, “He estimated ten days.”

Engineer Frauhiger summarized, “That’s where we are now. The drainage is well underway. The ditch is dug, the sides are being leveled, the detention pond will be done in a couple of weeks.”

Board Member Ferguson asked, “You say that one end of the Altman Drain has sunk down? Might it be quick sand or something like that?” Engineer Frauhiger answered, “Yes, that’s either what happened or the portion that was put in without stone ballast under it floated up. Somehow we’ve got a hump in the pipe and we’re not sure what caused it.”

Chairman Schmierer stated that they are going to shoot some levels and try to get it fixed. Engineer Frauhiger stated, “What’s probably going to have to happen is, there should’ve been structures put in along that thirty inch tile (Altman Drain) so you could’ve gotten in to it because right now we only have two or three access points along the entire length and they’re not big enough to do anything at.”

Bob Dungan stated, “Dr. Tribbett (landowner) is committed to do this right and we have agreed to the city that we are going to continue Fisher Street back to the property line which would be back to that tile. We’ll commence on that probably in three weeks. They will cul-de-sac at the end; they’ll all have curbs and gutters also. The curbs and gutters will come all the way back to Sixth Street.” Engineer Frauhiger said, “The curbs and gutters water has to go some place so it will go to Sixth Street or it will come back to your ditch? He’s got to put a sag in the road some place.” Bob Dungan answered, “It will go into that ditch that we’re constructing now.”

Engineer Frauhiger stated, “I’m not sure what we do at this point. We could issue drainage permits and say the building permit is contingent on the detention pond being complete. That would take it out of this jurisdiction and basically put it in Rick (Surveyor Raderstorf) and my lap. Then when we say the detention pond is done they could go to Diann (Weaver, Area Plan) and wouldn’t have to come back before the Drainage Board at that point.” Chairman Schmierer asked Bob Dungan if that was satisfactory with him. Mr. Dungan agreed that it was.

Board Member Ferguson made a motion to approve the drainage plan for Lot. 3 Johnson-Tribbett Subdivision with the stipulation that when the detention pond is done to the satisfaction of the County Surveyor, the building permits can be issued. Board Member Heimlich seconded the motion. The motion carried unanimously.

Surveyor Raderstorf asked the Board about how to pay the surveying and engineering bills on the Ella Baker Drain project that was started. He explained that we paid the bills for surveying and engineering out of General Drain Improvement and bills like that are usually paid through reconstruction assessments. He said even if we don’t do the reconstruction those bills have to be paid. Attorney Loy stated that we can take that amount out of the existing maintenance fund of that ditch. Surveyor Raderstorf explained that the bills were split half and half between Ella Baker Open Drain and Ella Baker Tile Drain. He said the open drain has enough to pay their portion back.

Surveyor Raderstorf asked, “When do we decide they’re not doing anything?” Chairman Schmierer answered, “They haven’t petitioned it and I took them all the information and told them they had to get an attorney to petition it and that’s been a year ago. I’d heard about it ever since I had been here so we just went to work and had landowners meetings, got it all around and showed them what it’s going to cost. I think it satisfied some people that they can’t afford to do it. Gordon Denton doesn’t want to do it. Thompson’s don’t want to do it. Bruce Brown said he can buy farm ground cheaper than he can do that. At least we did exactly what they asked us to do. We had the landowners meetings and let them make the decisions, so I don’t feel bad about it.”

Surveyor Raderstorf stated that we need to finish tile repair work in the Town of Wolcott. Chairman Schmierer asked if we can get the State to help with that. Engineer Frauhiger stated he will contact the State and tell him that the pipe is collapsed under the State Highway and if we can get that portion fixed from right of way line to right of way line, but we still have a portion collapsed under the city street. Chairman Schmierer said we decided that we would have enough maintenance money to finish it with.

Attorney Loy asked what the State will require if they are to participate. Engineer Frauhiger said they may require us to draw up a plan for them. Attorney Loy stated that if the project is under $75,000.00 the Surveyor can invite three bids.

Surveyor Raderstorf said that another project he would like to try to get done is the J. P. Carr Drain in Prairie Township. Chairman Schmierer said, “Why don’t we go to work and do it down to State Highway 43 this year and come back and do some more of it the next year. They have plenty of fall after you get to 43. I think Juanita Waugh could care less, John Brettnacher said she doesn’t want to spend any money on that property down through there. I think we have enough maintenance money in it to do that.” Surveyor Raderstorf asked, “To go from 43 to the end…..west.” Board Member Heimlich said it would go on west from Evans Road, that’s where it’s the worst between there and the next road west of there (CR150W). Surveyor Raderstorf said we will just be taking it back to normal. Chairman Schmierer instructed the Surveyor to go ahead and get quotes on it and bring them to us. Surveyor Raderstorf asked, “From Evans Road to the end?” Board Member Heimlich said, “Most of it between Evans Road to Highway 43 I think the problem is brush.” Surveyor Raderstorf said he thinks one side has been cleared. He said that on one side there are some pretty good size trees. He said he will look at it.

Engineer Frauhiger asked if there is a property owners meeting set up for the Ackerman Drain. Surveyor Raderstorf answered no, there is no date set yet.

Board Member Heimlich made a motion to approve the minutes of the last meeting. Board Member Ferguson seconded the motion. The motion carried.

Chairman Schmierer asked Attorney Loy about the procedure to bill Jordan’s for the engineering fees on the Jordan Tile Drain as agreed upon with Dave Jordan at a previous meeting. Attorney Loy will pull that file and look into that situation.

Engineer Frauhiger reported that he and Surveyor Raderstorf talked with the engineer for Walmart and they were supposed to come on site, go on Lopp’s property, dig up where the existing tiles were and come up with a plan on where to direct them. Surveyor Raderstorf stated that contractor Jerry Cook called in saying that Lopps had contacted him and he gave him Jamie Collins’ (Walmart engineer) number because that’s the guy he needs to talk with. Surveyor Raderstorf said his understanding was that Walmart was supposed to figure out how to fix it and then Lopps have contacted Jerry Cook to figure it out. Chairman Schmierer and Surveyor Raderstorf both related that we do not have anything to do with it; it is between Lopps and Walmart.

Engineer Frauhiger reported that the Board should talk about West Side Commercial Subdivision because the second detention pond is not constructed and they are still constructing foundations for duplexes out there. He stated, “It is my opinion that it is getting to the point now we might want to contact Dave Jordan and B. J. Mursener and tell them that we have to stop construction until we get that drainage in. There’s not even anyone out there working. The second pond is not built, there’s some storm water pipe that has to be put in the ground, so I guess with your permission I’ll draft a letter for Rick’s review, not stopping work at this point but telling them that we’re going to start down that road if we don’t start seeing some action and they don’t show us some progress.” Chairman Schmierer said he saw no problem with doing that. The Board agreed.

Surveyor Raderstorf stated, “On this West Side Commercial, Dave Jordan was supposed to put this in, but he has sold the property.” Chairman Schmierer said it doesn’t matter; he’s the one that got the drainage permits.

Chairman Schmierer reported that Engineer Frauhiger has brought it to the Board’s attention that we need to do some updating of the County Drainage Ordinance to include two engineering site visits to the drainage during constructions and have the contractors pay for it. The Board was in favor of that. Engineer Frauhiger said what we will do is raise the review fee from $1,000.00 to $1,700.00 and the extra $700.00 will cover the two site visits. Attorney Loy will meet with Engineer Frauhiger and draft that update to the Ordinance.

Chairman Schmierer adjourned the meeting.