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The White County Board of Zoning Appeals met on Thursday, December 21, 2006 at 7:30 p.m. in the Commissioners’ Meeting Room, Second Floor, County Building, Monticello, Indiana.

Members attending were Gary Barbour, David Scott, Carol Stradling, Jerry Thompson and David Stimmel. Also attending were Attorney Jerry Altman and Director Diann Weaver.

Visitors attending were: Santos Cisneros, Joshua R. Dye, Jerry Skinner, William J. Misenheimer, Greg Johnson, Dave Diener, Wayne Moncel, Leonard Simala, Harry Peterson, David Blount, Steven M. Creager, Ronald R. Reed, Jeff Sterrett, and Lenore Rich.

The meeting was called to order by President David Stimmel and roll call was taken. Carol Stradling made a motion to dispense with reading and approve the minutes of the November 16, 2006 meeting. Motion was seconded by Gary Barbour and carried unanimously. Attorney Altman swore in all Board members and audience members.

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#2573 Santos Cisneros; The property is located on Lot 55 and 54 in Turpie’s Addition, located in the Town of Monon at 911 N. Lincoln Street.

Violation: None

Request: She is requesting a 9’ rear setback variance to build a roofed porch and a 2’ front setback variance to bring the home into compliance.

President David Stimmel asked, is there anyone here representing this?

Santos Cisneros stated, I don’t speak English.

President David Stimmel stated, you don’t speak English.

Carol Stradling asked, would you translate for her?

President David Stimmel asked, what is your name?

(Daughter can not understand what her name is.)

Attorney Altman stated, please come up if you are going to speak.


President David Stimmel asked, is there anything from what I read that Ms. Cisneros would like to add to this?

Santos Cisneros stated, it is okay.

President David Stimmel stated, it is okay. You can have a seat right now. Is there anyone here who wants to speak either for or against this variance? Any questions from the board?

Jerry Thompson asked, is she the initial owner of the home? Do you understand? Well she is asking for a variance and the house is in place. Who put it there to begin with?

President David Stimmel stated, it is an older home, tell me if I’m speaking out of line, it is an older home and has probably been there since the 1970’s.

Jerry Thompson asked, what I’m looking at? The modular?

David Scott stated, yes.

President David Stimmel stated, yes.

David Scott stated, it hasn’t been there that long.

Jerry Thompson asked, did she put it there?

David Scott stated, it has been there probably about 10 years.

Jerry Thompson stated, she is the one that put it there.

David Scott stated, I can’t answer that. Is she the one who put it there?

Daughter stated, yes.

Jerry Thompson stated, I’m sorry I wasn’t making my self clear, she was the original homeowner? So it has been this many years out of compliance?

David Scott stated, they are wanting to add something. The existing is in compliance.

President David Stimmel stated, it says a roofed porch and a 2’ front setback variance to bring the home into compliance. That says to me it has been out of compliance for this many years.

David Scott stated, maybe Diann has a record of that.

President David Stimmel stated, the question is Mrs. Cisneros the original owner?

Director Weaver stated, of the home? Yes.

President David Stimmel stated, so did they place the home there out of compliance?

Director Weaver stated, well I think at the time this was filed, we thought that it was too close on the south side, but they own both lots and this request is for both lots. So it is okay on that side. It is 1’ too close to Lincoln Street and we found that out after the application was filed.

David Scott stated, this is a modular home and some contractor probably…

Jerry Thompson stated, I’m done I was just curious how long it had been done this way.

President David Stimmel stated, as we go through this and you discovered that one foot additional variance, it would not be proper to bring it into compliance because it was not part of the advertisement.

Director Weaver stated, this was originally scheduled to be on for the November meeting and we did re-advertise and it is coming to you to bring the entire home into compliance.

President David Stimmel stated, okay, so you said 1’ and the reason I was confused is it says 2’ front setback variance.

Director Weaver stated, we thought there was a 1’ overhang.

President David Stimmel stated, okay. So we are talking about the same side. I’m sorry. Dave anything?

David Scott stated, no I don’t think so.

President David Stimmel asked, Gary?

Gary Barbour stated, no.

President David Stimmel asked, Carol?

Carol Stradling stated, no. Looks like the garage to the north is real close to the alley and she doesn’t come close to it.

Without further discussion the board voted.

The Board finds the following:

1. That the property is properly zoned R-2, One and Two Family Residential.

2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114.

3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.

4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.

5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.

6. That the request is for a 9’ rear setback variance to build a roofed porch and a 2’ front setback variance to bring the home into compliance on Lot Fifty-Five (55) in Turpie’s Addition to the Town of Monon, as shown in Deed Record 75, Pages 116 and 117, and in White County Indiana.

COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located in the Town of Monon at 909 N. Lincoln Street.


7. That the variances herein authorized and granted are not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make reasonable practicable the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variances are based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variances under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.


The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 5 affirmative and 0 negative.

Attorney Altman stated, you need to get your building permit before you proceed.

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#2579 Harry W. & Cecilia T. Peterson; The property is located on Lots 20 and 21 in Kozy Kove Subdivision and NW ¼ of the NW ¼ of Section 31-28-3 containing 0.052 of an acre, vacated roadway, located East of 300 E. at 3097 E. Stahl Road.

Violation: The deck was built too close to the north property line.

Request: They are requesting a 23’ front setback and a 3’ side setback variance to build a garage.

President David Stimmel asked, is there someone here representing the Peterson’s?

Harry Peterson stated, Harry Peterson.

President David Stimmel asked, do you have anything that you want to add to what we have read?

Harry Peterson stated, no, it is pretty much describing what we are here for.

President David Stimmel stated, normally we handle the violation second right?

We will do the variance first then talk about the violation after that. Any questions from the board or the audience that wants to speak about the variance?

Wayne Moncel stated, my name is Wayne Moncel. I live next to the property where my driveway is. Where Harry is going to build the garage, if you look to the West when you pull out of my drive if the garage is put there, I’m not going to be able to see the road very good and I don’t think it is a very good safety thing to have a garage that close to the road. I have no objection to him building a garage. That is not the problem. I think it ought to be setback within the same row and if you look at all the buildings on the same side and they are all straight and in line, I think it ought to be the same. I think my idea needs to be done. Thank you.

Director Weaver stated, before we go any farther I have printed off and I did receive a letter opposing this request and I did print off one of our aerial photos so the board can look at it while we are reviewing this request.

President David Stimmel asked, is there anything you want to add to this Mr. Peterson?

Harry Peterson stated, no sir.

Jerry Skinner stated, I’m Jerry Skinner. I have a couple of questions. First of all it says a garage. Are we actually building a garage or a storage shed.

Harry Peterson stated, garage.

Jerry Skinner stated, it is a pole building? I mean you have a two car garage there already.

Harry Peterson stated, I would like to move down here full time, I need addition space to convert the existing garage that is attached to the home for more usable square footage for the home. That would be on the road side.

Jerry Skinner stated, right, then okay on Stahl Rd. That is 10’ from Stahl road.

Harry Peterson stated, that is 10’ back from the property line.

Jerry Skinner stated, right, from the edge of the road. I mean most cars are 15’ to 20’ long. So he wouldn’t be able to pull in off of Stahl road without the door open to get into this garage.

Harry Peterson stated, I’m sorry I don’t quite understand.

Jerry Skinner stated, if you are coming in off of Stahl road, you are going to be 10’

Harry Peterson stated, correct.

Jerry Skinner stated, from the road so you won’t be able to park your car in front of the garage.

Harry Peterson stated, I wasn’t planning on it. That is why I have the driveway, the existing driveway that is there now.

President David Stimmel asked, Mr. Peterson will you be entering the garage from the West or the South?

Harry Peterson stated, it would be from the West the Stahl road side.

President David Stimmel stated, that would be the South.

Harry Peterson stated, I’m sorry that is the South.

President David Stimmel stated, so you would be entering off of Stahl road and not pulling into a driveway and then pulling into the garage from the West.

Harry Peterson stated, no sir.

Jerry Skinner stated, if this here, if everybody’s garage 5 of them this way and 5 this way in a line, his is going to stick out 20’ farther to the South then everyone else’s.

Harry Peterson stated, there is no garage there at all going all the way to 300. There is nothing and coming back the other directions there is nothing.

President David Stimmel asked, Jerry where do you live in relationship to this?

Jerry Skinner stated, I own property across the road, I live a half a mile away.

President David Stimmel stated, across the road.

Jerry Skinner stated, I own property across the road. I mean it isn’t going to bother me much, but you know it is just everybody else’s line is like this and this one is going to be 20’ out.

President David Stimmel stated, okay. Thanks.

Jerry Skinner stated, my other question was is it actually a garage or storage shed.

Leonard Simala stated, I’m Leonard Simala and I live on Kozy Kove and I go down Stahl Road all of the time and I don’t see any garage set back over 10’ on Stahl Road. If you take a ride down there I don’t see one garage pass 10’ off of Stahl Road.

President David Stimmel stated, okay.

Leonard Simala stated, on both sides of Stahl Road there is not one over 10’.

President David Stimmel stated, okay thank you.

David Scott stated, will you clarify what he was saying. Does he mean….

Jerry Thompson asked, are they all in line or further back?

Leonard Simala stated, they are closer to the road.

Jerry Thompson stated, closer than 10’.

Leonard Simala stated, yes take a ride down Stahl Road.

Carol Stradling stated, the aerial photo isn’t showing that.

Leonard Simala stated, go down Stahl road and I can show you the measurements. Some of them are 4’ off of the road.

Director Weaver stated, I can explain that. If the board members look at their staff report, when you get to the East of this property the homes that front the water, the road side is the rear yard. They can go as close as 6’ to the rear property line or road right of way. That is considered there rear yard not their front.

David Scott stated, is appears there is plenty of yard there, why do you want it so close. Why not move it back to the proper setbacks.

Harry Peterson stated, well if I do that as you can see by the diagram. I would be actually putting it in the middle of the yard which I would like to keep the yard as usable space as much as possible.

President David Stimmel stated, yes we have a letter.

Attorney Altman stated, I will read this into the record (see file for the letter). This letter is opposing this variance.

President David Stimmel asked, Jerry anything?

Jerry Thompson stated, yes. Is the owner of lot 22 or 19 present or have we heard from them.

Dave Blount stated, my name is Dave Blount and I live next door to Harry. I’m lot 22. I believe the west side. I don’t have any problems with this and a couple of the things that came up, the East side of Harry’s lot they are talking about not being able to see and that. Their whole back yard is full trees. Not that it might make a difference. On my end of it I don’t have a problem with it, it is on the lot on the other side of the house.

President David Stimmel stated, okay, thank you sir.

Jerry Thompson asked, have you heard 19?

Wayne Moncel stated, I’m 19.

President David Stimmel stated, I don’t believe that is correct. You are on the North side of him.

Wayne Moncel stated, I’m on the East side. Lot 19.

Some one in the audience stated, I have one question, does Wayne own the house or is he renting the house?

President David Stimmel stated, if he lives there, I don’t know that it makes any difference.

Some one in the audience asked, it doesn’t make any difference if you own it or not for a variance?

Wayne Moncel asked, what difference does it make? I come out of that drive.

President David Stimmel stated, okay.

Harry Peterson stated, looking at the survey and you will see the property line directly adjacent to the propose garage. The driveway is not next, the safety issue they are talking about is not next to the building. It is another lot over, so you’re not pulling up next to the building to come out to drive out to Stahl road. I’m trying to give you a visual by verbal description of what we are talking about.

David Scott stated, one of the concerns I heard is whether it is going to be a medal building or what kind of building it is going to be. Is there a conveyance in the area. I was out and looked at the property and there is a house just to the East of it probably worth $300,000 to $400,000. I can’t image that guy wanting a pole barn next to his house. Do we even have any regulation to say this has to meet some sort of spec or…

Director Weaver stated, I haven’t been given any private restriction, no.

Harry Peterson stated, the description of a pole barn, I’m putting 12” overhangs on it. On the yard side I’m going to have a 9’ overhang for a patio and an area for picnic table so it is not just a pole building like your typical one in a farm field. I’m trying to make it look more like a suburban style look to it other then a commercial or agriculture to it.

President David Stimmel asked, anything else Dave?

David Scott stated, my only comment was that there is room there for him to meet the setbacks and I don’t know why I would go to for a variance.

President David Stimmel asked, Gary?

Gary Barbour stated, I don’t have anything.

President David Stimmel asked, Carol?

Carol Stradling stated, I just kind of along the line that Dave has mentioned. The 24’ x 24’ garage is not big enough.

Harry Peterson stated, the home is a smaller home. My father in law lives across the road and he is getting old. My wife and I have discussed a number of times about moving down here permanently. The house is two small for what we need now. If we were to build this building I would then convert the attached 24’ x 24’ garage and convert that into living space to make facilitating moving down here permanently. Make a larger home basically and take everything in the existing garage and put it into the new building and use that as my new garage/workshop/storage.

Carol Stradling stated, I appreciate the design elements, but I’m just trying, I’m not sure it is going to fit on the property where you want it. You might have to set it back a little bit or shorten it up. I think you have plenty of room on the property to do that if you choose to do so and set it back and meet the setbacks. Can you set it closer to the house? Would that change things?

Director Weaver stated, I think he probably could, it may require fire walls, but I can’t answer that because that is a building department question.

Carol Stradling stated, yes it would take up some of your space, but it would still meet the setbacks.

Harry Peterson stated, and these setbacks are 23’ off of the road and theoretically putting the building in the middle of an open lot.

Carol Stradling stated, not any more in the middle than your house is. It would be right next to your house and there would still be.

Harry Peterson stated, then can I build it on the other end of the lot on to the Kozy Kove side 10’ off since that is a private road not used by…

Director Weaver stated, you still have to be 32’ off.

Harry Peterson stated, so either way I still have to be in the middle of a perfectly good lot.

Director Weaver stated, you have two front yards unfortunately.

Carol Stradling stated, if you want to build another garage and add on to your house. You currently have a garage, it isn’t suitable for you.

Harry Peterson stated, correct.

Jerry Thompson stated, if you just move it back 10’ more it would still give you…

Harry Peterson stated, there is a NIPSCO pole with a transformer.

Jerry Thompson stated, I just think at one point and time you probably would wish you could park your vehicle in front of it. That is my only concern.

President David Stimmel asked, Dave anything else?

David Scott stated, no I guess I can’t think of anything right now.

President David Stimmel asked, are you ready to vote?

Without further discussion the board voted.

The Board finds the following:

1. That objectors were present at the meeting

2. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.

3. That the request is for a 23’ front setback and a 3’ side setback variance to build a garage.

4. (1) The variance request (is) (is not) a variance from a use district or classifications under are plan law. Vote: 5 is not, 0 is.

5. (2) The granting of this variance (will) (will not) be injurious to the public health, safety, morals and welfare of the community. Vote: 4 will not 1 will.

6. (3) The use and value of the area adjacent to the property included in the variance request (will) (will not) be affected in a substantially adverse manner. Vote 1 will, 4 will not.

7. (4) The strict application of the terms of the zoning ordinance is being applied to a situation that (is) (is not) common to other properties in the same zoning district. Vote: 1 is 4 is not,

8. (5) The strict application of the terms of the zoning ordinance (will) (will not) result in unusual and unnecessary hardship. Vote: 1 will, 4 will not.

9. (6a) This situation (is) (is not) such that there are exceptional or extraordinary circumstances or conditions applying to the property in question or to the intended use of the property that does not apply generally to other properties or class of uses in the same zoning district. Vote: 1 will, 4will not.

10. (6b) this situation (is) (is not) such that such variance is necessary for the preservation and enjoyment of a substantial property right possessed by other property in the same zoning district and in the vicinity. Vote: 1 will, 4will not.

11. (6c) This situation (is) (is not) such that the authorizing of such variance will be of substantial detriment to adjacent property and will materially impair the purposes of the ordinance of the public interest. Vote: 2 will, 3will not.

12. (6d) This situation (is) (is not) such that the Board specifically fins the condition or situation of the specific piece of property for which the variance is sought is of so typical or recurrent a nature as to make reasonably practicable the formulation of a general regulation, under an amendment of the ordinance, for such conditions or situations. Vote: 5 will, 0will not.

The variance was denied based on the findings of fact by a vote of 1 for and 4 against. A vote of 3 “for” is necessary to grant a variance.

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President David Stimmel stated, okay we are going to move on to the violation. The deck was built to close to the North property line. I believe by how many feet 7’.

Director Weaver stated, at least 4’ off the property line.

President David Stimmel stated, at least 4’.

Harry Peterson stated, can I get something real quick.

President David Stimmel stated, sure no problem.

Attorney Altman stated, we received into the record 4 pictures and I will mark them, Exhibit 1 through… Also received a survey of the property by Jim Milligan dated, September 19, 2003 and I will mark that exhibit 5. Also received a schematic also. This will be 6.

Harry Peterson stated, so from the initial survey we are 8’ from what says the edge of the roadway as it sets now we are 19’ off of the house. We said we were going to be 20’ off of the house and we are a 1’ shorter off the house than we initial planned to be with 8’ between the theoretical roadway and the deck.

President David Stimmel stated, you mention a theoretical roadway.

Harry Peterson stated, Kozy Kove is a private gravel road that is not serviced by the County, nothing is done with Kozy Kove and on the survey which I gave to Mr. Altman, it shows the property line right on the roadway, so we stayed 8’ from the roadway with our deck.

Director Weaver stated, it also says the roadway is 20’.

Harry Peterson stated, if you measure that you would actually be in one person’s garage for 20’ of roadway and there would be trees in the roadway. If you go by the 20’.

President David Stimmel stated, the current survey you submitted with your variance it shows that they deck is, there is no setback essentially from the roadway.

Harry Peterson stated, then how far off of the actually area you drive on is the roadway on a gravel road.

President David Stimmel stated, it really doesn’t matter. It has to be from the measured roadway whatever that right of way is.

Harry Peterson stated, is the center of the roadway each way.

President David Stimmel stated, I can’t answer that, I can’t answer that.

Director Weaver stated, that is a question for your surveyor. He had put the road surface on here we would have a better idea.

Harry Peterson stated, it certainly wasn’t no way being malicious or trying to gain an extra foot or anything of that nature because we are 8’ from the roadway or the gravel where you would drive.

President David Stimmel stated, we understand.

Leonard Simala stated, the old survey is still out there in the road from when the house was bought. The survey is marked and someone marked it with orange paint and it is 8’ from this fence so it is over 8’ from where the deck and the pipe are at. So something is wrong here.

President David Stimmel stated, there again this is an issue for your survey as much as anything else. What we have to base it on is the survey that you actually submitted from Mr. Milligan.

Leonard Simala stated, the survey you’ve got there, why are there black ones and white ones. White ones were existing, did he change it.

President David Stimmel stated, is says iron pipe set and iron pipe fine.

Leonard Simala asked, why is one black and one is white?

President David Stimmel stated, you are out of my realm. You need to talk to Mr. Milligan to find out.

Carol Stradling stated, I see a chain link fence and I see a fence that is a draped thing.

Harry Peterson stated, that was there before I purchased the property.

Carol Stradling stated, both the chain link fence and the just the post fence.

Harry Peterson stated, yes.

Carol Stradling stated, the surveyor’s pipe that is painted orange can you locate that in any of these pictures.

(Harry Peterson is showing them on pictures.)

Carol Stradling stated, yeah it looks like it is kind of down by Diann’s car. Did you have it surveyed before? I mean before this point.

Harry Peterson stated, no I had the survey papers from when I purchased the property. That is the one we had surveyed for the variance request.

Carol Stradling stated, so what you have, okay. So when you purchased the property…

Harry Peterson stated, that is what was provided.

Carol Stradling stated, this is dated 2003. Then you came in for the deck when?

Harry Peterson stated, 2004.

Gary Barbour asked, if your drawing says 20 for your deck that you gave to get your permit, why did you only build it 19’?

Harry Peterson stated, because of the boards, the edge of the boards they are 20’ deck boards coming out. So we got that far and trying with the frame work on the outside it was easier to over lap it and cut it straight than to go the full 20’ and build the frame work out on the outside edge.

Carol Stradling stated, sir I think I found the problem. On your initial survey that you had done when you purchased the property it says the property is a total of 110’ long. If I look at the schematic that you submitted when you built the deck you have 66’ from Stahl Road to the edge of your existing house. Then 29’ beyond that and an additional 27’ from the edge of the house to the property line. If I’m adding that up properly that is 112’. So what you submitted when you built the deck is a total of 2’ longer than what you actually owned. Are you aware of that?

Harry Peterson stated, no.

Carol Stradling stated, so that might have been part of the problem. If you went with the dimensions and set it back or a distance of whatever you thought the property lines was, even if you set it where the property line was you have on here 2’ more than you have in reality. Do you see what I’m saying.

Harry Peterson stated, yes, ma’am.

Carol Stradling stated, and part, this part. Your current survey that you submitted the edge of your existing garage is 36’ back and then your garage is 24’ in length also. So that means you actually put it closer to Stahl road than you put on your request.

Harry Peterson stated, yes.

Carol Stradling stated, that portion is still in compliance, but it is important to build on your own property and the proper way to do that is to identify what you actually own. Many times that is not in line with what everybody else has built, they didn’t have their property surveyed. You built according to their line. There are actual homes constructed on other people’s property. You haven’t exactly done that.

President David Stimmel stated, Jerry?

Jerry Thompson stated, I don’t know how to say this without confusing everyone. I don’t have as big as issue with this deck only because Stahl road is an official road in the county. If I understand you right the roadway is just a passage way. It is not maintain.

Harry Peterson stated, Kozy Kove on the North side.

Jerry Thompson stated, it is not maintained by the county.

Harry Peterson stated, no, it is a dead end.

Jerry Thompson stated, I understand.

Attorney Altman stated, if you are going to talk you have to come up and talk to the mic.

Jerry Thompson stated, so do our, do our County zoning rules.

Director Weaver stated, yes, they still go for private roads.

Jerry Thompson stated, I call it a passage way and it is not an official road.

Director Weaver stated, yes. It is still an access for ingress/egress.

Attorney Altman stated, it would be an official road. It just may not be a county maintained road.

Gary Barbour stated, the current ordinance in Area Plan is not allowing roadways like that in the county any longer. It has to be at least 40’ to 50’.

Jerry Thompson stated, I understand that.

Wayne Moncel stated, if you go to putting decks on both sides of the property my house is the last one, how are you going to get fire protection down there.

Jerry Thompson stated, I understand your point.

Wayne Moncel stated, I want the house to be protected from fire and I’m paying insurance on that house and taxes that I pay go towards the fire department and I don’t care about the deck, but if the guy on the other side decides to do the same thing that driveway gets narrower and if we’ve got fire trucks going in and out of there I haven’t’ seen a fire truck that stays in a single line. They go everywhere. I think that aspect should be taken into consideration.

Director Weaver stated, I think you’ve got prime example of what you are saying because right across from his deck is somebody’s garage that is setting right on the property line as well.

Wayne Moncel stated that is probably out of compliance too.

Director Weaver stated, Jerry some of these lots, the lots along the lake, Kozy Kove is there only access.

Jerry Thompson stated, I understand that.

Leonard Simala stated, if we are going to moving driveways and stuff we are going to have to move some garages, they are pass the line on Kozy Kove.

Jerry Thompson stated, this is out of our hands, but if there are this many homes, this many people relying on that roadway, why doesn’t the county declare it a road.

Director Weaver stated, I don’t think the county will maintain anything this narrow.

Dave Blount stated, I may be able to help out on that. About 4’ away from this fence and property line we are talking about is about a 200 year old oak tree that is on the road. Everything sets past the oak tree. The fire truck issue.

Wayne Moncel stated, that isn’t right, when the property was bought it abandoned the right of way. When it went before the variance board it abandoned the right of way. The oak tree is on what use to be the road right of way. Actually, that road dead ends right on the end of the property line where I’m at. The oak tree is about lot 19 and 20 that road dead ends. The only one who really can drive on there is who ever me or who ever I let pass it on that drive.

Dave Blount asked, are you talking about the oak tree by his deck?

Wayne Moncel stated, no, I don’t know about that tree.

Dave Blount stated, it is right there, right by the deck, I’m not talking about your tree.

Wayne Moncel stated, oh your not talking about my tree. Back in 1975 or 1976 when that was a cottage where the road went up and around, there was a high road and a low road. You come by and you can go back there. They abandoned that portion of the high road and when they did that they built a garage there where Hugh lives. Now that use to be the way you drove through it.

Harry Peterson stated, he blocked it off.

Wayne Moncel stated, he blocked it off and before that the county maintained that road. When t hey did that the county decided they were not going to maintain it anymore. For what ever reason I don’t know. That is what happened. They did at one time maintain it.

President David Stimmel stated, okay. Any more questions from the board or suggestions?

Attorney Altman stated, this is out of compliance, so he either has to remove it or have a variance to bring it into compliance.

Director Weaver stated, correct.

Attorney Altman stated, it must have a variance or be removed to be in compliance.

Jerry Thompson asked, how many other of these roadways do we have along the lake that is not?

Director Weaver stated, a lot.

Attorney Altman stated, a lot.

Jerry Thompson stated, I knew we had more, but I didn’t know, or I didn’t think you would say a lot.

President David Stimmel stated, I’m not trying to delay anything you are trying to do, I don’t think it will. One of the options we have is to table the discussion the fine until next month. I don’t think anyone here just wants to jump on it and zap you with a $500 or $1000 fine. I guess I’m thinking right now that there are enough questions that we need to think about this another 30 days and readdress it at the next meeting.

David Scott stated, does this do any good if he gets consent from all of his surrounding neighbors so we could get to the point that we wouldn’t have to make his remove it.

Director Weaver stated, it would still require a variance.

President David Stimmel stated, what about the fence it is sticking out there 2’ or 3’ further than the deck.

Director Weaver stated, the fence is a violation and I have no way of knowing when the fence was put in.

President David Stimmel stated, the iron post stick out further. The problem guys and I think you understand you are living back there, but I’m telling you one of the issues we are faced with is public safety. The more we keep encroaching on a road like that the more it becomes an issue. The more we let it go and if Mr. Peterson can do it, then there is no reason why everybody right up and down the road can’t do the same thing and you end up with a 20’ road that is essentially un passable for an emergency vehicle.

Harry Peterson stated, the photos that I supplied I took this week. If you look at them, there is a post with a chain just a chain hanging. That has been there and that has been for over 10 years. I’m 4’ behind that or away from the road.

President David Stimmel stated, I see that.

Jerry Thompson stated, I move that we table it until we get additional information.

Carol Stradling stated, it won’t affect his original variance request was denied, so it doesn’t affect that, the only issue is.

Jerry Thompson stated, no, we want to be fair about our decision.

Carol Stradling stated, you can’t do anything you don’t know about it, but once you know about it you need to address it and that is where we are. There is a problem there and how should it be addressed for safety and fairness.

President David Stimmel stated, for Mr. Peterson I think what Jerry said I think there are basically two options either we get a variance for it or we take it off to make it compliance. Those are the two options.

Someone from the audience asked, how far is that to be off the line?

Director Weaver stated, 4’.

Someone from the audience stated, according to what the mark is out there it is 7’ off, I don’t understand.

Harry Peterson stated, it doesn’t show that on the survey.

President David Stimmel stated, we have a motion to table it, we need a second.

Gary Barbour stated, seconded it.

President David Stimmel stated, all in favor say “aye” 5 to 0. Motion passed. Tabled until next months meeting.

****

#2580 Jerry A. & Lenore A. Rich Revocable Trust; the property is located on SW NW 30-28-3 .20 and .006 of an acre, located East of Monon at 6703 N. Harris Loop and 3147 E. Camp Drive.

Violation: None

Request: They are requesting a 7,027 sq. ft. space variance and a 30 ½’ front setback variance from Camp Drive, a 29’ front setback variance from Harris Loop and a 30’ front setback variance to bring the existing buildings into compliance.

President David Stimmel asked, you are?

Lenore Rich stated, Lenore Rich.

President David Stimmel asked, do you have anything you want to add?

Lenore Rich stated, no sir.

Director Weaver stated, I would like to clarify one thing and I wasn’t quite sure how to put this on the agenda. This was a violation. It was not a violation that was done by the Rich’s, it was done by the previous owner and the violation was addressed by the Area Plan Commission. It did have to go to them first. I wasn’t real sure how the board wanted that on there.

Carol Stradling asked, are you doing any new building or what brought this to the attention of the…

Lenore Rich stated, we had the property for sale and the buyer found that we were not zoned properly. We have 3 apartments and it was only R-2 and we needed an R-3. After applying and getting that passed Diann discovered that our variance was off so we had to apply for that.

Carol Stradling stated, there is a duplex.

Lenore Rich stated, it is a 2 story, one bedroom up and one bedroom down. Then the 30’ x 60’ building half of that is a garage and the other half is an apartment.

President David Stimmel asked, did we get any fan mail on this one?

Director Weaver stated, no.

President David Stimmel asked, does anyone want to speak about this variance?

Jerry Thompson stated, I have nothing.

President David Stimmel asked, Dave?

David Scott stated, no.

President David Stimmel asked, Gary?

Gary Barbour stated, no.

President David Stimmel asked, Carol?

Carol Stradling asked, is there enough parking?

Lenore Rich stated, in front of the two story there are 4 parking spots and behind the garage apartment is 2. That is parking in there for 4 and on Camp drive there is 2.

Carol Stradling asked, when you say in front of, it is square, the front is Harris Loop side?

Lenore Rich asked, can I come up there?

(She is showing them on the map where the entrances are.)

Carol Stradling stated, so parking is to the East and the South of the two Story.

Lenore Rich stated, this should be West.

Carol Stradling stated, yes, that is what I mean and East of the long garage area. I have no further questions.

Without further discussion the board voted.

The Board finds the following:

1. That the property is properly zoned R-3, Multi-Family Residential.

2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114.

3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit, and has adequate parking and is on sewer.

4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.

5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.

6. That the request is for a 7,027 sq. ft. space variance and a 30 ½’ front setback variance from Camp Drive, a 29’ front setback variance from Harris Loop and a 30’ front setback variance to bring the existing buildings into compliance on Parcel A: A tract of land located in the Southwest Quarter (1/4) of the Northwest Quarter (1/4) of Section 30, Township 28 North, Range 3 West, in Monon Township, White County, Indiana, and described more fully as follows: Beginning at a point which is South 83° 12 ‘ West 95.57 feet from a point which is 20 feet West and 367.2 feet North of the Southeast corner of the John E. Harris property as described in Deed Record No. 162 page no. 143 in the office of the White County Recorder, Monticello, Indiana and running thence South 83° 12’ West 100.08 feet; thence North 6° 25’ West 91.41 feet; thence North 87° 41’ East 100.56 feet; thence South 6° 16’ East 83.56 feet to the point of beginning, containing 0.20 acres, more or less. Parcel B: That part of the Southwest Quarter of the Northwest Quarter of Section 30, Township 28 North, Range 3 West in Monon Township, White County, Indiana described by:

Commencing at the Southeast corner of the Southwest Quarter of the Northwest Quarter of the above said section 30; thence West 802.00 feet; thence North 1176.52 feet; thence West 224.49 feet to the Northwest corner of the tract as described in Deed Record 213, page 227 and the point of beginning; Thence North 06 degrees 25 minutes West 1.00 feet; thence North 85 degrees 59 minutes 14 seconds East 100.40 feet; thence South 06 degrees 15 minutes 49 seconds East 4.00 feet to the Northeast corner of the above said tract; thence South 87 degrees 41 minutes 44 seconds West 100.56 feet to the point of beginning, containing 0.006 of an acre, more or less.


COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located East of Monon at 6703 N. Harris Loop and 3147 E. Camp Drive.

7. That the variances herein authorized and granted are not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make reasonable practicable the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variances are based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variances under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.


The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 5 affirmative and 0 negative.

****

#2581 Steven M. Creager; The property is located on Lot 22 in Hinterland Trails Subdivision, located Northeast of Monticello at 1171 N. Diamond Point Court.

Violation: The house was built too close to the road and outside of the setbacks.

Request: He is requesting a 15’ front setback variance to bring the existing home into compliance.

President David Stimmel asked, Mr. Creager?

Steven Creager stated, Steve Creager.

President David Stimmel asked, do you have anything to add?

Steve Creager stated, yes I’m baffled, I’m the sixth owner here and no one ever caught this prior to me. No one suggested to the previous owners it just and then all of a sudden I try to sell my house and it is an issue. There are a lot of government agency that let this go time and time again.

President David Stimmel stated, I understand your frustration.

Director Weaver stated, this situation has us baffled also because there has been a variance granted on this property as well for a fence.

Steve Creager stated, that was a smoke screen from the previous owner, he knew there was a problem and he went for a variance a fence in the back. I think this disguise this problem.

Director Weaver stated, possibly. We can’t even find where there was a building permit issued for this house.

David Scott stated, so you don’t know when it was built.

Director Weaver stated, well we know approximately when it was built from the assessor’s records.

David Scott asked, when was that?

Director Weaver stated, in 1980.

David Scott asked, when was the ordinance in?

Director Weaver stated, 1972. There was even a variance granted for the subdivision as a whole. That is why this has a front yard of 100’ and a rear yard of 50’.

Jerry Thompson asked, and this gentleman has owned for how long?

Director Weaver stated, I can’t answer that.

Steve Creager stated, 6 years now.

David Scott stated, you didn’t build it?

Steve Creager stated, no, I haven’t changed anything on the property.

Jerry Thompson stated, you bought it 2000?

Steve Creager stated, yes, in October of 2000. I even had a survey at the time of purchase it showing the dotted line where the setback should have been. The surveyor didn’t say anything, the abstract title didn’t say anything, and the realtors didn’t say anything. Didn’t give me any warning that this could be a future problem. Everyone seemed to be.

David Scott stated, did any of the setbacks change on it.

Director Weaver stated, it had a variance on it. So they would not have changed. Once the variance was granted that set the setbacks and the way the stayed.

Carol Stradling asked, what caught this now, you are attempting to sell the property?

Steve Creager stated, yes, I had a buyer, buyer backed out to much of an issue to much of a bother so I lost an opportunity to sell my property at a decent price. Now I’ve had 10 people in there. It is down, the real estate is down and I lost a perfectly good opportunity because everybody missed this. If I knew about this when I purchased it, the previous owners would have been in here getting this resolved at that time. Now I’m stuck with it and it is the law.

This has cost me a lot of money now.

Gary Barbour asked, who found it?

Director Weaver stated, I believe the realtor called the office and is what initiated it.

Steve Creager stated, actually the buyer had someone come out to survey the property and they reported that there was a set back problem and told them to run like hell. So they ran and had me running around too.

President David Stimmel asked, are we ready to vote on the variance?

Without further discussion the board voted.

Carol Stradling stated, I know we are voting, but is there a variance on Lot 23?

Director Weaver stated, I can not answer that.

Carol Stradling stated, if this one is out of compliance.

Director Weaver stated, I agree I noticed it when I was out there.

The Board finds the following:

1. That the property is properly zoned R-2, One and Two Family Residential.

2. That the lot is a proper subdivision of land as provided by the White County Subdivision Ordinance.

3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit, and the lot was of sufficient size for the home.

4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.

5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.

6. That the request is for a 15’ front setback variance to bring the existing home into compliance on Lot Number Twenty-Two (22) in Hinterland Trails Subdivision 1, Union Township, White County, Indiana.

COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located Northeast of Monticello at 1171 N. Diamond Point Court.

7. That the variance herein authorized and granted is not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make typical or recurrent the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said condition or situation of the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variance is based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variance under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.


The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 5 affirmative and 0 negative.


****

President David Stimmel asked, does anyone want to make a motion on the fine?

David Scott stated, I will make a motion since this fellow didn’t build the home that we waive the fine?

Gary Barbour stated, I will second it.

President David Stimmel stated, all in favor say “aye” 5 to 0. Motion carried and the fine is waived.

Director Weaver stated, I would like to make record on this that is it my understanding that the building department is not requiring any permit for this house and I would like for that to be on record. It concerns me.

President David Stimmel stated, he doesn’t have to get a permit.

Director Weaver stated, yes, you have spoke to Dave and it is my understanding you he is not going to require a building permit.

Steve Creager asked, spoke to who?

Director Weaver stated, Dave Anderson the Building Inspector.

Steve Creager stated, I have not spoken to him.

Director Weaver stated, you have not. I will clarify this.

Carol Stradling asked, and there is no permit on file?

Director Weaver stated, no. We have looked.

Steve Creager asked, I don’t have to worry about it?

President David Stimmel stated, no.

****

#2582 David Diener Trustee of Helen L. Diener Trust, Owner and Jeffrey Milligan, Applicant; The property is located on S ½ Lot 67 and 45’ N/S Lot 68 in O.P., located in the City of Monticello at 218 S. Main Street.

Violation: The sign has already been put up and is not meeting the setback.

Request: They are requesting a 4.5’ front setback variance to place an on premise sign on the property.

President David Stimmel asked, sir?

David Diener stated, I’m David Diener and I’m representing this request this evening. A quick history of this perhaps for the board, Mr. Milligan has purchased the property from me in October of this year when the property was rezoned to Business from Residential. There was no problem through the Area Plan or City Council. His current office who he had taken over from Mr. Baker who deceased kind of rapidly was on Illinois Street. After he had purchased the business from Mr. Baker, Mr. Milligan put a new sign in his yard on Illinois Street, a year ago. This is the same sign that he moved to the current business location in October. It is a small sign setback approximately the same sign on the property adjoining it. We were all surprised because it is a business it still needed a variance to have a sign because the way the ordinance is written. So therefore after notification from Diann we made the application for a variance and I’m here this evening. I would be happy to answer any questions.

President David Stimmel stated, any questions from the audience? Carol any questions?

Carol Stradling stated, I new there was a sign there and it appears to be the same, but on the survey it indicates that the Milligan sign is 5.5’ off of the property line and the Help U Buy sign is 8’ off of the property line.

David Diener stated, I believe the Help-U-Buy sign and Diann can answer this, is it in compliance.

Director Weaver stated, well that is something I was going to bring up..

David Diener stated, being the adjoining property owner I was never notified of a variance for that sign that is there and it also sets behind the steps on the porch to the house to the North of it. It is back in the yard a small professional type sign. To me if there is a problem with traffic you would have to have quite an imagination to believe that.

Director Weaver stated, I was going to bring this up after the vote. He is correct the Help-U-Buy sign at the time everyone in our office believes thought it was meeting the setback requirements. When the survey was done and I went to the property also we realized no it is not meeting the setbacks, so was going to ask the board for direction on how you wanted to address that. Mr. Diener is correct there was no variance for that sign.

David Diener stated, since that time I have noticed going up and down Illinois Street and Main Street a number of signs that don’t meet the setback and I don’t believe any of them have sought a variance for their signs on the businesses.

Director Weaver stated, we have done sign variance.

David Diener stated, I’m not saying there hasn’t been, but seems to be more of an issue then this particular area.

Carol Stradling asked, when you placed that sign what rationality did you use to place the sign?

David Diener stated, I did not personally place the sign, but what they attempted to do was place it off of the side walk back up in the yard as close to the porch that it could still be visual to people who are looking for their accountants after they moved. As I said the same sign that they had on Illinois Street, which was faced against the side walk and had no setbacks and has been there for a year and there was never a notification of a violation. That is why I guess not to sound disgruntled, but we were surprised after having the property rezoned to a business that no one mentioned you could not have a sign within any setback requirement. Which is our fault for not coming in and checking. As I said the sign was at the other location and they moved it and set it further back away from the property line and then it becomes a violation.

David Scott asked, what was the one we addressed last year?

Carol Stradling stated, next to the Presbyterian Church.

David Scott asked, it wasn’t the same guy?

Carol Stradling stated, no.

Attorney Altman stated, it is a different CPA.

President David Stimmel asked, what did we do with that one?

Director Weaver stated, he was actually…

Jerry Thompson asked, how much out of compliance are they now?

Director Weaver stated, 4.5’.

Carol Stradling stated, there is a sidewalk and it quite a distance away from the street. There is a wide.

Director Weaver stated, and the property line is actually approximately 2’ on the inside of the sidewalk, which is unusual.

David Scott stated, yeah we went by and looked at it and it doesn’t appear to any kind of a visual thing.

Attorney Altman stated, I wouldn’t think so.

David Diener stated, the business down town, theoretically they can’t have a sign on the front of the building which is on the property line.

Director Weaver stated, they can have it on the building, can not have it fee standing, that is the difference.

President David Stimmel asked, Jerry any more?

Carol Stradling stated, so you can put a really ugly sign up in the eaves and it would be okay.

President David Stimmel asked, any more comments from the board?

Jerry Thompson stated, so if they were to move that 4.5’…

David Diener stated, it would be on the front porch and serve no purpose. Then a sign across the building would be the only alternative. It isn’t a very big sign.

Director Weaver stated, something I would like to point out and I think this is what Dave was getting at. A B-1 zoning to build a building in a B-1 zoning which is what this property has been rezoned too, they can build right up to the front property line, but if they put a free standing sign up they have to be 10’ back, so I think we have flaw.

David Scott stated, even though this is a spot zoning situation is it residential on both sides or?

Director Weaver stated, no it is B-2 to the South.

David Diener stated, it is totally surrounded by business. There are no residences on that block.

Carol Stradling stated, it formally was residential. The Methodist Church has purchased most of the property on that block.

Director Weaver stated, is the home to the North being lived in or.

Attorney Altman stated, yes, it is being rented.

David Diener stated, the church to the North is owned by the Methodist Church as well as the rest of the block. Except this property and the one Help-U-Buy is on and Dr. Hibner’s old office building.

President David Stimmel asked, if we allow the variance are we saying this is the new standard then for anyone else?

David Scott stated, that is why I asked about the others signs because we did allow them because of the vicinity.

President David Stimmel stated, weren’t those different circumstances Dave, if I count this up it is 25’ off of the curb as far as just the distance to the curb.

Gary Barbour stated, yeah but the property line is different to then what the other properties are. This one is inside the sidewalk and the others are on the other side of the sidewalk.

Director Weaver stated, I think the sign to the South that is why they thought they were in compliance.

Gary Barbour stated, I don’t think you are setting precedence here, you’ve got a whole different situation then the other sign for the other CPA that we did.

President David Stimmel stated, right, but in this area, what I’m saying is that anybody else that is going to be along Main Street is zoned business.

Gary Barbour stated, everyone will need a variance, as long as they get a variance I don’t have a problem with it.

Attorney Altman stated, this size of sign and that much out of traffic visibility.

President David Stimmel stated, I don’t disagree Jerry, then tell me what the sign limitations are, when does it become an obstruction okay what we are doing is writing the ordinance. We are rewriting the ordinance and that is not our place.

Gary Barbour stated, as you go around that block are the property lines in the same vicinity in relationship to this side of the block. That is something else.

Attorney Altman stated, mine is.

President David Stimmel stated, I agree.

Director Weaver stated, it is a 1’ on the inside.

Attorney Altman stated, yes, if you look at my driveway in the middle beside the house and you will see a stake set and a 1’ inside on the east boundary of the sidewalk.

Gary Barbour stated, you still have the extra footage of the road. I don’t see that you have anything choice but to do the variance.

Jerry Thompson stated, that is the next hurdle the size of the sign.

Carol Stradling asked, did we fine Kercheval?

President David Stimmel stated, yes I believe $50.

Director Weaver stated, yes.

David Scott stated, is there someway to find out.

Director Weaver stated, I can go look on the computer. Would you like for me to do that?

David Scott stated, I think we need to follow what we have done in the past.

Without further discussion the board voted.

The Board finds the following:

1. That the building site is currently zoned B-1, Retail Business.

2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114.

3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit, and the size of the sign and it’s location did not interfere with the neighborhood and traffic visibility.

4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.

5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.

6. That the request is for a 4.5’ front setback variance to place an on premise sign on the on the South one-half (1/2) of Lot Number Sixty-seven (67) in the Original Plat to the Town, now City of Monticello, White County, Indiana.

Also Forty-five (45) feet off of the North side of Lot Number Sixty-eight (68) in the Original Plat of the Town, now City of Monticello, White County, Indiana.

COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located in the City of Monticello on 218 S. Main Street.

7. That the variance herein authorized and granted is not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make typical or recurrent the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said condition or situation of the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variance is based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variance under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.


The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 4 affirmative and 1 negative.


President David Stimmel stated, then on to the violation. Diann what information did you fine?

Director Weaver stated, I found that they were fined $150.

President David Stimmel asked, do we need to discuss the violation anymore?

Carol Stradling stated, if I recall Dave said he wants to be comparable, if I recall Diann has had discussion with them prior to placement of that sign to in form them that they did need a permit and that is not comparable to what Mr. Diener advised that they were unaware that they needed to address this situation. I understand the fine there was $150 under this circumstance I think that would be, it needs to be lower than that.

Attorney Altman stated, you need to make a motion.

Carol Stradling stated, I move a fine of $25.00.

Gary Barbour stated, I will second it.

President David Stimmel stated, all in favor say “aye” Motion carried 5 to 0. Fine is $25.00.

****

#2583 Jeffrey Alan Sterrett; The property is located on SE NE 4-27-2 containing 1.00 acre more or less, located North of Idaville at 4522 N. 1200 E.

Violation: None

Request: He is requesting a 4.5’ height variance to build a pole barn 21.5’ tall.

President David Stimmel asked, Jeff?

Jeff Sterrett stated, Jeff Sterrett.

President David Stimmel asked, do you want to add anything to this?

Jeff Sterrett stated, no.

Attorney Altman asked, what is this for?

Jeff Sterrett stated, it is for storage and plus I’m an owner operator and I need 14’ doors to get my truck in there.

Director Weaver stated, we have not received anything on this one.

President David Stimmel asked, does anyone in the audience want to comment on the variance? Carol?

Carol Stradling stated, no.

President David Stimmel asked, Gary?

Gary Barbour stated, no.

President David Stimmel asked, Dave?

David Scott stated, no

President David Stimmel asked, Jerry?

Jerry Thompson stated, no.

Without further discussion the board voted.

The Board finds the following:

1. That the property is properly zoned A-1, Agricultural.

2. That the lot is a lot of record and properly divided.

3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.

4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.

5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.

6. That the request is for a 4.5’ height variance to build a pole barn 21.5’ tall on that part of the Southeast Quarter of the Northeast Quarter of Section 4, Township 27 North, Range 2 West in Lincoln Township, White County, Indiana, described by:


Commencing at the Southeast corner of the Northeast Quarter of the above said Section 4; thence North along the above said Section line 16.16 feet to the point of beginning; thence South 89 degrees 54 minutes 30 seconds West 273.39 feet; thence North 159.33 feet thence North 89 degrees 54 minutes 30 seconds East 273.39 feet to the Section line; thence South 159.33 feet to the point of beginning, containing 1.00 acre, more or less.

COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located North of Idaville at 4522 N. 1200 E.

7. That the variance herein authorized and granted is not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make typical or recurrent the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said condition or situation of the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variance is based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variance under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.


The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 5 affirmative and 0 negative.


****

#2584 William J. Misenheimer; The property is located on Lots No 63 and 66 in WJR Addition, located in the City of Monticello at 221 W. Broadway Street.

Violation: None

Request: He is requesting a 7’ side setback variance and a 6’ front setback variance to place a cooler on the property.

President David Stimmel asked, and you are?

Bill Misenheimer stated, I’m Bill Misenheimer.

President David Stimmel asked, is there anything else you want to add to this?

Bill Misenheimer stated, no sir.

Director Weaver stated, we have not received anything on this. I think the board should no that I think the house that is to the South of this property is also owned by Mr. Misenheimer.

David Scott asked, what about the house to the East?

Director Weaver stated, to the East, there is no house to the east.

David Scott stated, I mean the west.

Director Weaver stated, that is actually to the south.

Attorney Altman stated, the property the house is to the south.

Jerry Thompson stated, the cooler is to be used with the Restaurant.

Bill Misenheimer stated, yes the Taco Shoppe.

President David Stimmel asked, is the house a rental house?

Bill Misenheimer stated, yes.

David Scott stated, if this doesn’t marry these properties together and…

Attorney Altman stated, not yet.

President David Stimmel asked, can we?

David Scott asked, is that right?

Attorney Altman stated, the application isn’t to do that.

Director Weaver stated, I don’t think you can, then you have two zonings and two uses.

David Scott stated, is this something that can be removed?

Bill Misenheimer stated, it can be attached but the cooler it self is a modular system it hooks in and self contained.

Carol Stradling stated, I’m worried about noise.

Bill Misenheimer stated, noise with.

Carol Stradling stated, the cooler right there by the house.

Bill Misenheimer stated, I don’t know how much noise there would be. The guy that lives in the house works at the Taco Shoppe.

Carol Stradling stated, any future resident would know it when they move in there. If it is no longer a restaurant then it wouldn’t need a cooler.

Bill Misenheimer stated, right, they would take it with them.

Carol Stradling stated, you really don’t want to take up any more parking places.

Bill Misenheimer stated, I would assume that cooler wouldn’t make any more noise then what that air conditioner does back there.

Carol Stradling stated, there is a lot of stuff back there. Is that exhaust.

Bill Misenheimer stated, that comes out the side. The exhaust is on the side.

Carol Stradling stated, no there is something in the back.

Bill Misenheimer stated, that is exhaust.

Carol Stradling stated, then here is another exhaust.

Bill Misenheimer stated, this is the side.

Carol Stradling stated, this is the side and that is the exhaust and this round thing back here, that is the back of the building?

Greg Johnson stated, I’m Greg Johnson and I have the Taco Shoppe. The thing on the side is the air intake, that is sucking air into the building and then the back is the exhaust it out.

Carol Stradling stated, okay, thank you.

Attorney Altman stated, to the east there looks to be something on the Southside of the building.

Bill Misenheimer stated, I would have to see the picture.

Attorney Altman stated, okay.

Bill Misenheimer stated, that is a wall they built for the air conditioner.

President David Stimmel asked, Jerry?


Jerry Thompson stated I have nothing.

President David Stimmel asked, Dave?

David Scott stated, I don’t have a problem with what he is trying to do as long as he owns both properties and he wants to live with it. We are talking about making a 1’ setback and he can’t even walk around it without getting on the other property. Can we put a, I don’ t know if you would call it a commitment, if the property to the South is sold that this has to be removed or that something so that, a 1’ setback are not good.

Attorney Altman stated, basically what you are saying is as long as Mr. Misenheimer owns it all you are not against a variance, but if he was to sell the property with the house.

David Scott stated, exactly, and if he sells either one of them.

Attorney Altman stated, either one of them not both, you want the variance revoked, is that what you are saying.

David Scott stated, I guess if he wants to sell both properties and the other guy didn’t mind it being right on top of each other, I wouldn’t have a problem.

Attorney Altman asked, is that reasonable?

Bill Misenheimer stated, yes.

President David Stimmel asked, Mr. Misenheimer is there any chance to put this inside?

Bill Misenheimer stated, no.

President David Stimmel stated, I had to ask.

Carol Stradling stated, Dave I know one of your concerns is safety and there is an alley to the East that you can get to that house from the back. So the access is from Railroad Street but also from the back.

President David Stimmel stated what about fire protection running down through there is someone wanted to run a set of hoses down through there. I mean a 3’ space is not a huge amount of space to operate on that. A guy has an air pack on trying to run down through there.

Bill Misenheimer stated, there is already a ledge there so you are talking a ledge of 4’ or 5’ feet. He wont’ be able to vary to the left. Where he runs right now is where he is going to run.

President David Stimmel stated, it is not very conducive going through there at all for sure.

Carol Stradling stated, but that is not the only way to the back.

Bill Misenheimer stated, you can go to the East and West.

Carol Stradling stated, I believe to the South of the house there is more room.

David Scott stated, as long as something doesn’t get built.

Attorney Altman stated, I believe your restriction would affect that too.

David Scott stated, as long as there is no setback variance for whatever is going to go on there. There should be room without adding it to this commitment.

President David Stimmel asked, how is anyone going to find that commitment if that property sells?

Director Weaver stated, our minutes are recorded in the Recorder’s office and we will also put it on the building permit for the cooler.

President David Stimmel stated, I guess how someone is going to find that, does someone scan.

Director Weaver stated, I have had them find them from the minutes yes. I can’t guarantee that.

Attorney Altman stated, title search may not find it, it didn’t find it in the John Freeman lawsuit.

President David Stimmel stated, I’m just questioning if it will be affective.

Carol Stradling stated, having it visually so close is a whole lot more.

David Scott asked, the other question is, is it some kind of building violation to building this close to that house as far as Dave Anderson goes? We don’t want to make a variance if it is a violation of the building codes.

Gary Barbour stated, they will require a fire wall.

Director Weaver stated, I can’t answer that all I can say is Dave Anderson is provided a copy of the staff reports and he did not tell me of any problems with this.

President David Stimmel stated, do you want that commitment Dave.

David Scott stated, yes, I want that commitment. If either property is not owned by the same person then the cooler would have to come off.

Gary Barbour stated, I will second it.

President David Stimmel stated, all in favor say “aye” motion passed 5 to 0.

Without further discussion the board voted.

The Board finds the following:

1. That the building site is currently zoned B-2, General Business.

2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114.


3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit. The variance requires all of both lots 63, 66 and 69 be owned by the owner of William J. Misenheimer. If they are not the variance ceases and the cooler will have to come off.

4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.

5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.

6. That the request is for a 7’ side setback variance and a 6’ front setback variance to place a cooler on Lots numbered Sixty-three (63) and Sixty-six (66) in Walker, Jenner and Reynolds Addition to the Town, now City of Monticello, White County, Indiana.

COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located in the City of Monticello at 221 & 223 W. Broadway.


7. That the variance herein authorized and granted is not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make typical or recurrent the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said condition or situation of the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variance is based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variance under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.


The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 5 affirmative and 0 negative.

Attorney Altman stated, this is here by granted based on the commitment.

****

#2585 Michael A. & Carole Anne Pope; The property is located on Lot 49 in Hunts Riverside Park Subdivision 4, located Northeast of Buffalo at the South lot of 9794 N. Valley Court.

Violation: None

Request: They are requesting a 5’ height variance to build a detached garage 22’ tall.

President David Stimmel asked, anyone here representing this?

Ron Reed stated, it is a pole barn, it is a story 30’ x 30’ with a gambrel roof like a barn. That is where the height variance is coming in.

Jerry Thompson asked, you are?

Ron Reed stated, from Reed’s deck, sheds and garages.

Director Weaver stated, we do have a letter in the file saying he would be representing this request.

Carol Stradling stated, there is not a house there currently, is there plans to put a house there.

Ron Reed stated, no.

Carol Stradling stated, so this would tied to a house across the road.

Ron Reed stated, yes, and he owns the lot next to it.

President David Stimmel asked, any fan mail?

Director Weaver stated, no.

President David Stimmel asked, Carol?

Carol Stradling stated, no.

President David Stimmel asked, Gary?

Gary Barbour stated, no.

Director Weaver stated, you told me the upstairs would be used as a work shop, is that true?

Ron Reed stated, yes.

President David Stimmel asked, Dave?

David Scott stated, I don’t have anything.

President David Stimmel asked, Jerry?

Jerry Thompson stated, no, nothing.

Without further discussion the board voted.

The Board finds the following:

1. That the property is properly zoned R-2, One and Two Family Residential.

2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114.

3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.

4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.

5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.

6. That the request is for a 5’ height variance to build a detached garage 22’ tall on

Lots numbered forty-eight (48) and forty-nine (49) in Hunt’s Riverside Subdivision Number 4 in Liberty Township, White County, Indiana.

COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located Northeast of Buffalo on the South side of 9794 N. Valley Court.

7. That the variance herein authorized and granted is not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make typical or recurrent the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said condition or situation of the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variance is based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variance under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.


The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 5 affirmative and 0 negative.

****

President David Stimmel stated, okay that is it for the variances. We did have other business and that is the appeal of a fine. Is there anyone here representing the Dye’s?

Joshua Dye stated, I’m Joshua Dye.

President David Stimmel asked, Diann do you want to bring us up to speed here?

Director Weaver stated, I’ve given you a copy of my notes. What has happened there were 3 mobile homes brought in on 6 lots? The Dye’s own all of the property. None of these homes had permits to come in. We sent them a letter to come in and get permits and bring the property into compliance. They have come in and received one, they came in to get a permit for a manufactured home to go on lots 3 and 4. The mobile home that was on those lots was then going to be moved to lots 1 and 2 and the home that was currently on lots 1 and 2 was going to be destroyed. As of right now, they have received a permit to place the manufactured home on lots 3 and 4. They have moved the mobile home from 3 and 4 to lots 1 and 2 and they have not gotten the permit to do that. They did tear down the old mobile home that was on lot 1 and 2 and the mobile home that was on 5 and 6 still needs a permit as well. I have given you pictures as of yesterday.

President David Stimmel stated, give us a couple of seconds. Do you have any comments you want to make?

Joshua Dye stated, when I bought the property, I didn’t know, I was more or less stupid on the, not going in and finding out what I needed to do. I was just over zealous and jumped right in without researching. It is my fault I do apologize for it, but I’m trying to remedy that. I moved the one without the on 3 and 4 out of the way so they could start my new house which is on 3 and 4 now. I moved the one out of the way so they could actually put the house in. My wife and I was trying, we are trying to get the rest of the paperwork for the other permit. We do actually have, but she hasn’t come to pick it up yet. I am remedy that once I get home. I’m not home 5 days a week, I’m a truck driver. Everything I can do is the two days I’m home. I’m trying to comply with everyone and my wife works the night shift. I just apologize; I was over zealous and didn’t know I needed a permit to put a mobile home on. That is all I can say.

President David Stimmel stated, give us a minute to digest this.

Director Weaver asked, are you living in the mobile home on lots 1 and 2 or are you living in the manufactured home?

Joshua Dye stated, the manufactured home is still being erected.

Director Weaver stated, so you are still living in the mobile home on lots 1 and 2, the one moved from 3 and 4.

Joshua Dye stated, correct.

Carol Stradling asked, can you tell me when you purchased the property?

Joshua Dye stated, I purchased the property April of 2005.

Carol Stradling asked, were there mobile homes there at the time?

Joshua Dye stated, there was one out there, but I was told it needed to be torn down, so I tore it down.

Carol Stradling asked, is that the one on lot 1?

Joshua Dye stated, no that was lot 8 I believe. As far as, I don’t know if this was the issue of being encroachment. I guess it is a county road which is what access to my property. I just set the trailers where they were existing before.

Carol Stradling asked, can you tell me what the hold up is in getting the paperwork because I’m looking at notes from Diann that this all started in August? It seems through everything that I have read she has been very specific about paperwork that she needs from you. Does it not exist?

Josh Dye stated, the notarized copy of the contract, we are buying the house.

Carol Stradling asked, that is the manufactured house?

Josh Dye stated, no, that is the other trailer.

Carol Stradling stated, there are lots of trailers, so the 1 and 2, and that is a 1994.

Josh Dye stated, yes, the owner has given me the run around, and like I said I only have two days a week to work on this.

Carol Stradling asked, who is the owner?

Josh Dye stated, the owner is Adam Charles, we are buying it on a contract.

Carol Stradling asked, do you have documentation of the contract?

Josh Dye stated, yes, he lost his notarized sign copy and that was the only one, we’ve got a copy of the contract.

Attorney Altman asked, where is that contract?

Josh Dye stated, at my house. Diann do you have a copy of that.

Attorney Altman asked, is anyone living in that trailer on lot 1?

Director Weaver stated, he is.

Josh Dye stated, we are.

Attorney Altman stated, oh he is.

Director Weaver stated, they moved it, but they are also living in it.

Attorney Altman stated, it is on 3 and 4.

Josh Dye stated, no it is on 1 and 2 and it came off of 3 and 4.

Attorney Altman stated, the contract is not signed or dated. This is what Diann has.

David Scott stated, 3 or 4 years ago it was 40 acres and I was apart of it.

Attorney Altman stated, this doesn’t have anything to do with you.

Carol Stradling asked, were there mobile homes on it when you had it?

David Scott stated prior to when we had it and we put two or 3 mobile homes on there and the fellow that we were doing this with, we split up and he bought me out, so I don’t know what happened after that.

Director Weaver stated, I believe all of those mobile homes were removed. These I believe Mr. Dye has brought in.

President David Stimmel asked, is this a subdivision?

Director Weaver stated, it is an 8 lot subdivision.

President David Stimmel stated, it is an 8 lot subdivision.

Josh Dye stated, but we, in this whole process we knocked it down to 4 lots.

Director Weaver stated, where they have the manufactured homes they have combined lots 3 and 4 and to make them one lot.

President David Stimmel stated, that was what I was going to ask Mr. Dye is your intent longer term is to have it continued as a subdivision and have more than one residence there.

Josh Dye stated, no, no, no right now the plan is I bought a $100,000 house to put on there and I’ve living there forever. The other trailer my son is buying temporarily and then it will be gone. Then my mother-in-law lives out there, she had no place else to go.

Carol Stradling asked, is that the one on 5 and 6?

Josh Dye stated, yes.

Carol Stradling asked, what is the year on that one?

Josh Dye stated, 1989 or 1988.

Carol Stradling asked, do you have the paperwork on that one?

Josh Dye stated, she does.

Director Weaver stated, there hasn’t been, they haven’t even applied for a permit on that one.

Josh Dye stated, yes we have.

Director Weaver stated, I couldn’t find anything.

Josh Dye stated, she..

Director Weaver stated, I don’t think so, I don’t believe anyone has applied for it.

Carol Stradling stated, I understand that you are busy, but when you are busy you need to get someone else to take care of this for you.

Josh Dye stated, right.

Carol Stradling stated, I understand if you are not available. There are people available, there are attorneys, there is your wife, you need somebody to take care of the paperwork. It has been since August.

Attorney Altman stated, that could be $300 a day per individual violation. That is a lot of money.

Carol Stradling stated, you could hire somebody to take care of this pretty quickly and avoid that fine. I’m looking back at the correspondence and you know when this initiated you indicated that you would tear down the one mobile and the one older than 1981 and you indicated that you would tear that down that weekend and when did that happened.

Director Weaver stated, within the last month.

Carol Stradling stated, within the last month. That is a long time and I know you are only available on the weekends, that is quite a few weekends that you can have that home removed and fulfill your promise.

Josh Dye stated, well the one that was on the property when I bought it that was the first notice. I tore that one down immediately. The one..

Carol Stradling stated, you need to identify some how other than the one. Especially in this documentation that one is going to be the next one and the next one. How many trailers are we talking about?

Josh Dye stated, we have torn down 2 trailers out there.

Carol Stradling stated, okay, was there one removed before August 3?

Josh Dye stated, yes.

Carol Stradling stated, so that one isn’t even in the picture, what I’m looking at is this documentation that on August 3 Diann was approached by a Township trustee that there were a lot of different things going on there with mobile homes and campers. She went to the property on August 16 and there were 3 mobile homes and a camper.

Josh Dye stated, correct.

Carol Stradling stated, okay, and when was the letter sent out. August 18, so on August 21 you called so you did respond to the initial letter, that is a great thing. You indicated that you are on the road and the explanation was made and she gave you options on how to take care of that. On August 28 you indicated that you would tear down the other mobile homes. So this is now December and it is just being done and you indicated that you would do it that weekend. I guess what I’m looking for here is Diann has communicated with you on repeated occasions of what you are expected to do. There are no more excuses. Do you understand how much you could be fined at this point and time.

Josh Dye stated, correct, yes.

Carol Stradling stated, it is $500 for each violation plus an additional per day because you haven’t addressed it. I would like to hear from you what you are going to do to address all of the matters before us. I’m not sure, I need to know that you understand what you need to do and you can come up with a way to do it.

Josh Dye stated, I understand and I will make it happen. If it comes down to hiring a lawyer to get it done I will do it.

Carol Stradling stated, for the record I would really like for you to state what it is you need to do so you know what trailer you have and what documentation you need. You are living in trailers or places that are not permitted.

Josh Dye stated, okay.

Attorney Altman stated, your mother-in-law is living in a trailer that is not permitted and you are building a $100,000 homes that is not permitted.

Josh Dye stated, yes it is.

Director Weaver stated, yes, the manufactured home is.

President David Stimmel stated, okay so what is line item.

Josh Dye stated, the 1994 on lots 1 and 2 I will get the permit within the next week. The one on lots 5 and 6, I will also get that remedy next week, possibly tomorrow.

David Scott stated, when you get done you are going to have a manufactured home, and 2 mobile homes out there.

Josh Dye stated, correct.

David Scott stated, you are going to have all of that permitted by or providing it meets setbacks and all of that stuff when he can possibly have that done.

Director Weaver stated it sounds like to me he is going to have it done by the 1st of the year.

Josh Dye stated, yes.

President David Stimmel asked, is that possibly with everyone taking the holiday off?

Director Weaver stated, the only day we are closed is Monday.

President David Stimmel asked, what about the building permits?

Director Weaver stated, he hasn’t gotten building permits and he still needs septic permits also.

Josh Dye stated, we have those, we have acquired those.

David Scott asked you have septic permits for all 3 properties on the lots they are suppose to go on?

Josh Dye stated, yes.

Director Weaver stated, I think I have the one for lot 1 and 2. I do have a copy of the septic.

Josh Dye stated, I was told the septic permit on lot 5 and 6 was ready she just had to come in and pay for it.

David Scott stated, we better give him.

Director Weaver stated, the girl in the building department was not there today I did not find it. It maybe so, but I did not locate it.

Josh Dye stated, the day I came in with my wife to get the one for the modular, she said all that had to be done was to come in and pay for it.

David Scott asked, to get the septic and permits, how long does that take to get that?

Director Weaver stated, if they go to the building department and apply for a permit, they have all of the paper work in order and meeting setbacks, they can pick up the permit the following day after 12:00.

David Scott stated, what about a septic permit.

Director Weaver stated, I have no idea.

Josh Dye stated, we went to the health department and got the septic permits.

David Scott asked, you already have those for all 3 properties that you are going to?

Josh Dye stated, yes, like I said the one on 5 and 6, I was told by, it was in Diann’s office.

David Scott stated, I don’t think we ought to give him restraints he can’t meet because he is already in trouble. I would say at least by minimum the next meeting that would be my opinion by out next meeting he should have the septic permits and building permits and everything he needs. That would just keep in my mind that would just keep up from telling him that, that stuff has to come off of there. It doesn’t address everything that has happened to this point.

President David Stimmel stated, what if I made a motion that said he has to have all of his permits in order by the next BZA meeting, the January 18 meeting or we will impose a $1000 fine at that point.

Jerry Thompson stated, that gives you 28 days.

President David Stimmel stated, if you can not meet that Josh, now is the time to speak up okay it really is.

Josh Dye stated, I have no problem with it.

President David Stimmel stated, all right I’m going to make that motion.

David Scott stated, can I add something here. What about, does that take care of what he hasn’t done up to this point though? Is everyone comfortable with the fact that we had to run him down and he hasn’t done the permit thing, and Diann done paperwork and all of this kind of stuff. If he meets them, then we are not going to fine him anything.

President David Stimmel stated, that is correct.

Director Weaver asked, is that a $1000 per mobile home?

President David Stimmel stated, yes.

Gary Barbour stated, man.

David Scott stated, I like that concept except there needs to be, we can’t chase after people to make sure they get into compliance is the point I’m trying to make. There needs to be something up front and then. Am I wrong.

Jerry Thompson stated, no you are not wrong.

Attorney Altman stated, there is a motion.

President David Stimmel stated, there is no second, so the motion is dead.

Jerry Thompson stated, I will second it.

President David Stimmel stated, you don’t have to second it.

Carol Stradling stated, you can second it then we can have a discussion.

Attorney Altman stated, then it can be amended. What is the amendment Dave?

David Scott stated, I guess the reason I’m saying it and not because I have anything against this fellow, we have people come in here and we fine them and we don’t go chasing them around. They come in here on there own and we still fine them. So what is fair at this point?

Jerry Thompson stated, I know it is not answering your question, but I appreciate the fact that he did come. We do have no shows. I don’t know.

President David Stimmel stated, let me amend the motion as the following: That there will be a $200 fine up front, that there would be then, he has to get all of his permits, septic and etcetera in place by the time of January 18 were as if those permits are not in order by the time we have the next meeting then it is just a $1000.

David Scott stated, I will second that. Diann do you think, maybe I shouldn’t have second it? Does that cover the expenses and time that you have involved in this?

Director Weaver stated, I’ve made 4 or 5 trips to Monon to check it. I guess that is the best way to answer that.

David Scott asked, Gary what is your opinion? I think we need to cover her expenses; I’m not trying to take money out of his pocket. I think that it has gone on for 4 months like Carol said. That is too long and it should have happened way quicker than that.

President David Stimmel stated, lets vote on this and then someone can make a new motion.

Jerry Thompson stated, I think it is a good starting point.

Gary Barbour stated, I don’t think it is out of line.

President David Stimmel asked, too low or too high?

Jerry Thompson stated, no it is not too high. It is a deal, but he may not see it that way, but it is very fair.

David Scott stated, if he had been at these meetings before where we have fined people $500, $600 for a single violation.

Carol Stradling stated, if I read the letter correctly there are two violations at $500 a piece.

Director Weaver stated, there is now, there was originally 3.

Carol Stradling stated, okay one is taken care of.

David Scott stated, there would be 3 violations if you hadn’t have tracked him down, which is my point.

Carol Stradling stated, then there is $50 a month stated in there somewhere.

Director Weaver stated, they were to have had the fine paid by October 16.

Carol Stradling stated, for each violation, so there is an additional $100 a month, so you go August, September, October, November to January. A $1,000 is a break and this is to bring people in.

Director Weaver stated, I don’t know if I can say this or if I’m out of line, I don’t mean to be if I am. Is it necessary to decide this tonight, I mean you tabled the one earlier, you could tell him to have this done by the next meeting and then have him come back.

Carol Stradling stated, well if there needs to be a fine out right, that needs to be determined now, if there is additional that can be determined at the January meeting.

Jerry Thompson stated, that was just a single violation Diann this is multiple.

Director Weaver stated, it was just an idea, I was just trying to make it easier for you.

Carol Stradling stated, there were other issues that affect the over all safety comparison. This is all on you Josh, this is all you, just not recognizing that you need to take care of it. There is, sometime it cost you when you don’t take care of things. I realize you are on the road, but.

Josh Dye stated, I realize that, I honestly do.

President David Stimmel asked, are we ready to vote or amend it further?

Jerry Thompson stated, I say we vote.

Attorney Altman stated, call for the question.

President David Stimmel stated, all in favor say “aye”. Motioned passed 3 to 0.

Jerry Thompson stated, we need to start somewhere.

President David Stimmel stated, okay Josh there is a $200 fine and you’ve got to get it all together by January 18. Have that in Diann’s hands and you don’t have to come back. Send them the $200 and give it to Diann and show you are in compliance.

Josh Dye stated, okay. The road coming up to my property, it is the same issue, they consider it a county road because there is a county sign, it is the only access to my property. Is that supposed to be county maintained or am I suppose to maintain it. I own the whole property.

President David Stimmel asked, that was one of my questions, is it in your best interest to get rid of the subdivision designation so you have the whole thing and do your own thing? Is that an Area Plan thing?

Director Weaver stated, no he needs to address that with the county highway department because this has been subdivided and it appears to meet the, this is a bad copy, but it appears to me it meets the 50’ road right of way. So I’m not sure why the county is not maintaining it.

Gary Barbour asked, is it a dead end?

Director Weaver stated, I think there is a cul-de-sac back there.

Josh Dye stated, there was a cul-de-sac back there. I mean but when I bought the property it was just full of garbage.

President David Stimmel asked, do you want it to be a county road?

Josh Dye stated, not particularly. I mean I would maintain it.

Director Weaver stated, we could look at the plat, the subdivision plat and see if the road was dedicated to the public see what it says on it.

Josh Dye stated, when I bought the property they say it was a public access road, not a county road, but in the blue prints or the survey I picked up they considered it a county road.

Director Weaver stated, it has a county road number.

Josh Dye stated, it is county road 880. That is why I’m asking.

Jerry Thompson stated, I would call the County highway department.

Director Weaver stated, yes, that is Steve Brook.

President David Stimmel stated, well that is what I’m saying, maybe he doesn’t want that.

Attorney Altman stated, he would have to vacate it.

Director Weaver stated, he would have to vacate the subdivision and then he could only have one home, it is all one piece.

Josh Dye stated, eventually that is the way it is going to be. I’m not going to let everyone live on my property forever.

President David Stimmel stated, I would contact Steve Brook, I think that is the first thing I would do.

Director Weaver stated, I would contact Steve that is where I would start.

President David Stimmel asked, do you know where he is? The county highway garage is in Reynolds.

Josh Dye stated, yes.

Jerry Thompson stated, he is in that building.

President David Stimmel stated, stop in there and see him or give him a call or something like that.

Carol Stradling stated, you might even be able to do email while you are on the road.

Attorney Altman stated, I would go see him.

President David Stimmel asked, is there anything else we need to cover?

Director Weaver stated, no, I don’t think so, oh wait I have given each of you a copy of the Wolcott over lay, and this is for the second tier, of the Wolcott corridor for the new ordinance. Also for all of you who do not know this is Carol’s last meeting and Gary is in question.

Carol Stradling stated, it has been an honor to serve with you.

President David Stimmel stated, what is your status?

The meeting adjourned.

Respectfully submitted,

David Scott, Secretary

Diann Weaver, Director

White County Area Plan Commission