Get Adobe Flash player

The White County Board of Zoning Appeals met on Thursday, February 15, 2007 at 7:30 p.m. in the Commissioners’ Meeting Room, Second Floor, County Building, Monticello, Indiana.

Members attending were: David Scott, Charles Mellon, Jerry Thompson and David Stimmel. Also attending were Attorney Jerry Altman and Director Diann Weaver.

Visitors attending were: Tom Roche, Kelly Good, Jack Johnson, Loretta Long, Demita Mysky, Randy Johnson, Kay Jennings, and Kevin Ward (White County Sheriffs Department).

The meeting was called to order by President David Stimmel and roll call was taken. Charles Mellon made a motion to dispense with reading and approve the minutes of the January, 18, 2007 meeting. Motion was seconded by David Scott and carried unanimously. Attorney Altman swore in all Board members and audience members.

****

#2590 Demita & Leo J. Mysky; The property is located on Lakeside Heights, Lots 45, 49,48, 47, 46, 42, 53, 41, 44, 43, 52, 51, 50, Part 40 & Part Parkway Drive Vacated Road & Vacated Walkway, located North of Indiana Beach at 2875 N. West Shafer Drive.

Violation: None

Request: They are requesting an 8’ front (West Shafer Dr.) setback variance, a 30’ front (South) setback variance, and a 22’ front (East) setback variance to bring the house and cottages into compliance for the resort.

President David Stimmel asked, is there anyone here representing this?

Demita Mysky stated, Demita Mysky.

Director Weaver stated, I’d like to tell the board what has transpired with this property. Ms Mysky bought the property and because of the home being on the property and the mortgage she was getting, they split the property. It was a grandfather use and when they divide the property it created a violation, so they are now trying to get the property back into compliance. They have gone through a rezoning and had all of the property rezoned. They have had the auditor’s office combine the property all back to one parcel of ground and now their next step is to request this variance to bring the buildings into compliance.


President David Stimmel asked, have we gotten any mail from anyone?

Director Weaver stated, no, we have not received anything. I do know we received a phone call from one of the neighbors, she was also at the rezoning hearing and I believe if she had any problem with it she would have been at the meeting tonight.

President David Stimmel asked, Charlie anything?

Charles Mellon stated, no.

President David Stimmel asked, Dave?

David Scott asked, you are not actually trying to build anything. I remember this.

Demita Mysky stated, no, we are going to try to fix it up to rent out the cottages.

President David Stimmel asked, Jerry?

Jerry Thompson stated, no.

President David Stimmel stated, give me a familiar land mark, it looks like.

Attorney Altman stated, it use to be Big Chief.

Demita Mysky stated, no it was Country Aire, across from Yogi Bear. They were ugly green cottages.

President David Stimmel stated, I don’t have anything, unless anyone else does. I’m sorry does anyone in the audience have any questions or concerns?

Without further discussion the board voted.

The Board finds the following:

1. That the building site is currently zoned B-2, General Business.

2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114. That there is no construction or changes asked for and this used to be a grandfathered non-conforming use.

3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit. It is all on the sewers.

4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.

5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.

6. That the request is for an 8’ front (West Shafer Dr.) setback variance, a 30’ front (South) setback variance, and a 22’ front (East) setback variance to bring the house and cottages into compliance for the resort. Lots Forty-one (41), Forty-two (42), Forty-three (43), Forty-four (44), Forty-five (45), Forty-six (46), Forty-seven (47), Forty-eight (48), Forty-nine (49), Fifty (50), Fifty-one (51), Fifty-two (52), and Fifty-three (53) in Lakeside Heights Addition, and

Also, Lot Forty (40) in said Lakeside Heights Addition EXCEPT THE FOLLOWING:

Beginning at the northeast corner of said Lot number Forty (40) and running along the North side thereof in a Northwesterly direction Twenty (20) feet, to a iron stake thence running in a Southerly direction across said Lot Number Forty (40) to an iron stake in the South side of said lot, which is distant Eighteen (18) feet from the Southeast corner of said lot; thence along the south side of said lot number Forty (40) a distance of Eighteen (18) feet to the Southeast corner thereof; thence on the lot line between lots numbered Thirty-nine (39) and Forty (40) in said Addition to the place of beginning.

AND ALSO EXCEPT: part of Lot Number 40 in Lakeside Heights Addition a platted subdivision located in Union Township, White County, Indiana as recorded in White County Deed Records Book Number 115 page 282 described by: Beginning at the Northwest corner of Lot Number 40; thence South 81 degrees 54 minutes East 37.10 feet to existing property corner; thence South 18 degrees 47 minutes West along existing property line 60.74 feet; thence North 18 degrees 09 minutes West 54.65 feet to a point on the West line of Lot Number 40; thence North 2 degrees 08 minutes West along said West lot line 10.82 feet to the place of beginning.


AND ALSO CONVEYED HEREIN IS: That part of Parkway Drive in Lakeside Heights as platted and recorded in Deed Record 115, page 282 in the office of the White County Recorder described by: Beginning at the Northwest corner of Lot 51 in the above said Lakeside Heights; thence North 61degrees 52 minutes East 210.00 feet to a point on a tangent curve, concave to the South having a radius of 50.00 feet; then Easterly along said curve31.41 feet through a central angle of 35 degrees 59 minutes; thence North 07 degrees 51 minutes East 35.00 feet to a point on a non-tangent curve, concave to the South, having a radius of 85.00 feet, bearing of a tangent to said curve at said point is North 82 degrees 09 minutes West; thence westerly along said curve 53.39 feet through a central angle of 35 degrees 59 minutes, thence South 61 degrees 52 minutes West 210.00 feet to the Southwest corner of Lot 52 in the above said Lakeside Heights; thence South 28 degrees 08 minutes East 35.00 feet to the point of beginning, containing 0.21 of an acre, more or less, being located in White County, Indiana.


The portion of Parkway Drive above described as being vacated, was vacated by Order of the White Circuit Court on December 15, 1977 in Cause # C-372-77.


7. That the variances herein authorized and granted are not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make reasonable practicable the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variances are based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variances under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.


The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 4 affirmative and 0 negative.


****

#2591 Jack & Josephine Johnson; The property is located on Lot 29 and W ½ 28 in Cox’s Beechwood Addition, located North of the Indiana Beach at 3801 E. Lake Road 24 W.

Violation: None

Request: They are requesting a 3’ rear setback variance and a 3’ east side setback variance to remove the existing home and build a new home.

President David Stimmel asked, is there someone here representing this variance? State your name?

Jack Johnson stated, Jack Johnson.

President David Stimmel asked, Jack do you want to add anything to what I read?

Jack Johnson stated, I believe that everything that we want to do.

President David Stimmel asked, is there anyone in the audience that wants to speak for or against?

Director Weaver stated, Mr. Johnson has given you a letter, a hardship letter. The one thing I wanted to ask him about the drop off behind your house is your whole lot level or is that drop off on part of your property?

Jack Johnson stated, that is on my property.

Director Weaver stated, I thought so, I wanted to make sure the board knew that. His survey does not show that.

Attorney Altman asked, is that towards the Hoagland ditch?

Director Weaver stated, yes.

Jack Johnson stated, yes.

David Scott asked, it does drop off?

Director Weaver stated, yes, I tried to show that in the pictures, but it is kind of hard to see. The bottom two pictures. Do you know at what point it drops off?

Jack Johnson stated, I really don’t. I’d say it is 70’ to 80’.

Randy Johnson stated, can I look at those pictures?

(They are going over the pictures and survey to see the drop off.)

David Scott asked, is this going to be a mobile home or…

Jack Johnson stated, no it is going to be an erected home.

Kay Jennings stated, it is manufactured home.

President David Stimmel asked, what does the distance between the two buildings need to be? Is that up to the building department?

Director Weaver stated, yes, and Dave gets a copy of this.

Attorney Altman stated, so most of the property towards the Hoagland would be quite a bit of lower ground.

Director Weaver stated, the biggest share yes.

Attorney Altman stated, so there it a topography problem with this lot.

President David Stimmel asked, Jerry any questions?

Jerry Thompson asked, any response from adjoining people?

Director Weaver stated, no, we have not received anything.

Jerry Thompson stated, I don’t have anything.

President David Stimmel asked, Dave?

David Scott stated, I guess the hardship on this lot is what we were talking about. The home when they are built do they automatically have the drywall in them is that satisfactory for a fire wall and how close, I see a garage there.

Director Weaver stated, that is something that the building department regulates. I don’t regulate that.

David Scott stated, he is going to be 10’ from that garage. They was it looks like to me.

Director Weaver stated, from the neighbors garage.

David Scott stated, from the neighbors garage.

President David Stimmel asked, Charlie?

Charles Mellon stated, no.

President David Stimmel asked, Mr. Johnson is there any reason why the home couldn’t be moved 2’ closer to the garage and fit within the setbacks.

Jack Johnson stated, not if, you mean is it necessary for me to have the 10’ in between the two buildings.

President David Stimmel stated, well 6’ between the property line and the building. I guess what I’m saying is can you move it 2’ to the West and actually meet the setback requirement on the East side.

Jack Johnson stated, I think so.

Kay Jennings stated, there is a problem with the sewer grinder and some other things. Bobby Wrede laid this out and I don’t know, but he said that is where it has to go.

Director Weaver stated, they don’t have the grinder on the survey.

Kay Jennings stated, there is a huge tree there that they didn’t want to lose.

Jack Johnson stated, yes there is a large oak tree and the grinder sets in front of that.

Kay Jennings stated, I think originally Bob Wrede laid out the drawing, he has met him out there a couple of times. He has taped it off and elevated it.

Jerry Thompson stated, I hate to see them take a tree out if they don’t have to.

Jack Johnson stated, I don’t want to lose the tree.

President David Stimmel asked, can you identify the tree in the pictures?

(They are going over the bottom right hand corner picture.)

Jack Johnson stated, I have an old mobile home on there now, which is going to be taken off and this one is a little bit longer and I didn’t want to lose the tree unless I had to.

Without further discussion the board voted.

The Board finds the following:

1. That the property is properly zoned L-1, Lake District

2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114.

3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit. This shows that the trees on the property hold the bank of a fairly steep bank. The trees and the steep bank limit where this can be built.

4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.

5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.

6. That the request is for a 3’ rear setback variance and a 3’ east side setback variance to remove the existing home and build a new home. Lot Number 29, and the West half of Lot Number 28, in Cox’s Beechwood Addition, in Union Township, White County, Indiana.


COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located North of Indiana Beach at 3801 E Lake Road 24 W.


7. That the variances herein authorized and granted are not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make reasonable practicable the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variances are based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variances under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.


The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 4 affirmative and 0 negative.

Attorney Altman stated, you need to get a building permit before you proceed.

President David Stimmel stated, Mrs. Jennings if I could one of the things we are trying to be more diligent about is trying to identify areas where there is a hardship and with the drawing and the pictures, if there was a grinder and an obvious hardship there it would be better if we can see it in the future. It makes me uncomfortable voting for something that I can’t really see and my first instinct is to table it, but I don’t want to delay it. My first instinct is to table it and go look at it.

Kay Jennings stated, I didn’t realize that it wasn’t. Mr. Milligan did the survey.

President David Stimmel stated, it didn’t show up on the survey and I’m not taking issue with you at all. Just a reminder when you are putting these up.

Attorney Altman stated, trees and slopes. These are significant. They make a difference.

Jack Johnson stated, he is talking about those trees. They hold that ditch.

President David Stimmel stated, yes, a very good point.

****

#2592 Joe A. & Lisa J. Livesay Jr.; The property is located on Lot 20 in Lakeries Addition, located South of Monticello at 704 E. Terrace Bay Court.

Violation: None

Request: They are requesting a 13’ front setback variance, a 5’ rear setback variance a 4’ East side setback variance, a 6’ West side setback variance and an 8’ height variance to build a new home.

President David Stimmel asked, is someone representing this variance?

Kelly Good stated, I’m Kelly Good, I’m here representing Joe Livesay.

Jerry Thompson asked, what are you?

Kelly Good stated, I’m an architect in West Lafayette.

Director Weaver stated, we did receive a letter today from one of the neighbors. Not opposed to the request or in favor of the request and you do have a copy of that. I also might mention that the neighbor that is in favor of the request had a variance for their home and we sent you a copy of their staff report from their meeting.

David Scott asked, what side is that?

Kelly Good stated, the West side.

David Scott asked, is this the existing house?

Kelly Good stated, he would like to demolish the existing house which is 32’ x 34’ and construct a new house which will be roughly 37’ x 60’.

Director Weaver stated, the existing house is the green house. You’ve got the wrong house.

Kelly Good stated, there is a precedence I actually own a house down there as well. There is a precedence with larger homes. Edmondson home is very large, there are a few other residences down there and this happens to be a house that was built years ago. It is one of the smaller houses on the property, on that street down there. There is a house adjacent to it to the east which is a smaller house. It is the white house.

President David Stimmel stated, 38’ tall is that comparable to the homes in the area.

Kelly Good stated the one to the East is one story. The one to the West is taller. I estimated the one to the West to be about 4’ or 5’ taller than that. I wasn’t able to pull a tape measure on that.

Director Weaver stated, 4’ or 5’ taller than the 30’ or 4’ or 5’ taller than.

Kelly Good stated, then the 38’.

Director Weaver stated, really. So Livesay's house will be shorter than Edmondson's?

Kelly Good stated, it will be shorter. I actually didn’t pull a tape measure but I was able to get pretty close.

President David Stimmel asked, is there anyone here with any input for or against this variance? I’m going to try to be the devils advocate here, but at what point and time would you say, architecturally, what is too tall.

Kelly Good stated, that is a good question. I think it is in the eyes of the beholder. I would, since I own property there I would hate to see something taller than Edmondson’s house. From the lake level all of the houses look relatively tall. At this point we are about 20’ to 22’ above lake level so you are looking up at the homes.

President David Stimmel stated, so if you were to come in here and oppose someone who went much taller than that, what would you use in some form of argument to try and convince us that they shouldn’t build outside of the range.

Kelly Good stated, it has to do with, architecturally speaking, has to do with the context around it. If that road had all single story homes on it I would argue against a 38’ house since there is precedence s of two story homes on that road which are equal and in some cases exceed the 38’ I probably would be in favor of it. It doesn’t bother me aesthetically because it won’t be the tallest home on the road. That is my personal opinion.

President David Stimmel stated, I guess, you know where I’m coming from is that at some point and time the zoning ordinance itself is set up with a limit, and if we continue to exceed the limit then what is the new limit that everyone wants.

Kelly Good stated, that is a good point.

President David Stimmel stated, I think if you are living in that area I think you have to ask yourself the question if someone comes out there and builds a home that is 45’or 50’ tall why would we not grant that variance if we, seriously why would we not. If we have granted them all up to that time. I’m trying to understand the logic.

Kelly Good stated, typically when I design I design based on what is around it. So I would take it on a case by case if the one to the east was single story in the 12’ to 14’ range or maybe even 20’ I probably wouldn’t be here today asking for that variance.

Director Weaver asked, is your home the home to the East.

Kelly Good stated, you know I own the one at 800 Terrace Bay. I bought that house and then my mom bought it from me.

Director Weaver asked, is she okay with it?

Kelly Good stated, it depends on the day you ask her. My mom is 62 and prefers that things not change, she is not here to speak against it.

Charles Mellon stated, as long as the neighbors in that area Mrs. George Diener the second house in on the main road going in there.

Kelly Good stated, I don’t know her, it may be. I’ve only had a house down there for 4 years.

President David Stimmel asked, any questions about the variance Charlie?

Charles Mellon stated, no.

President David Stimmel asked, Dave?

David Scott stated, the side setbacks normally he would need a total 18’ out there.

Director Weaver stated, yes.

David Scott stated, he has a 60’ lot with the new ordinance.

Director Weaver stated, 50’.

David Scott stated, 50’, with the new ordinance he can be within 6’ is that right.

Director Weaver stated, maybe, I don’t remember Dave it sounds right.

David Scott stated, I guess since you are starting from scratch and building a new house in there, I know you want it to be tall so it needs to be wide. 4’ isn’t very far off of the property line.

Kelly Good stated, that is to the over hang, the building has a 2’ overhang. On the Edmondson’s side it would be 6’ and then on the Good side it would actually be an additional 2’. So really from the building it is 6’.

David Scott stated so in the new ordinance is that from the eave or the foundation.

Director Weaver stated, it is from the foundation.

David Scott stated, so technically this would fit in the new ordinance if we are measuring it right on a 50’ lot.

Director Weaver stated, yes you are right. At least on one side, I don’t remember what the side is.

David Scott asked, where is the grinder pump at? Is this going to have a garage?

Kelly Good stated, the garages are all on the other side of Terrace Bay. The grinder on that property is I don’t recall.

David Scott stated, it would be nice to show that on here.

Director Weaver stated, I’m making notes to let Mr. Milligan know that. I have to apologize I don’t have real great pictures, I almost got dog bit.

President David Stimmel stated, it looks like it is right on the property line.

David Scott stated, the houses to the..

Director Weaver stated, that is Edmondson’s that brown one, the tall brown one.

President David Stimmel asked, Jerry do you have any questions?

Jerry Thompson stated, no.

Kelly Good stated that is funny you said that about Edmondson’s dog.

Director Weaver stated, is that whose it was, I thought so. His hair was standing up on its back.

Kelly Good stated, it doesn’t bit, we have a 2 year old daughter and we don’t walk her by there it scares me.

Director Weaver stated, that is the closes I came to getting bit.

David Scott stated, in the height variance did we go back and I’m referring to the new ordinance.

Director Weaver stated, in the new ordinance I think we went to a maximum height to 35’.

David Scott stated, 35’.

Director Weaver stated, so this one would still be taller than what the ordinance is.

David Scott stated in talking to the building inspector it was better the other way and I was instrumental in changing that because I couldn’t understand the other way. After he explained it to me he might not be here for the variance under the other way.

Director Weaver stated, to the way it was calculated.

David Scott stated, yes, from the way it was calculated, we went to an actually footage instead of.

Director Weaver stated, it was footage before, it has always been 30’, we changed the definition of how to measure that 30’.

Attorney Altman stated, that is flat.

Director Weaver stated, it is pretty flat.

David Scott stated, I know at one time you had to do it at the angle of the house and the beams.

President David Stimmel stated, so the new one is 35’.

Director Weaver stated, yes, and I think it is similar to Lafayette.

Kelly Good stated, yes.

President David Stimmel stated, this doesn’t look into character if you look to the East of the house. It seems to be quite a bit taller.

Kelly Good stated, the house to the East is one story and the house to the east had a variance for a 6’ side yard setback and a height variance prior 4 or 5 years ago. The next house over is a modular and they had a side yard not a height and the next house was Jessie Elizalde about 10 or 12 years ago had side setback and height. I can’t quote on all of those, but that is what my research found. You are correct, the house adjacent to the East is lower.

President David Stimmel stated, so the story and half to the east did have a height variance?

Kelly Good the house with the brick and tan siding did have a side yard variance.

Director Weaver stated, and a height variance. I can pull the file.

Kelly Good stated, it was Livesay he built that house.

Director Weaver stated, I knew he had done one before.

President David Stimmel stated, you don’t need to pull the file, I’m just trying to satisfy myself.

Kelly Good stated, if anyone has any questions since I’m the one that designed the house I would be more than happy to do what is contextually correct for the area. I would be happy to answer any questions?

President David Stimmel stated, I don’t know what else to say, I’ve already made my point and I’m not got to beat that. Any more questions?

Without further discussion the board voted.

The Board finds the following:

1. That the property is properly zoned L-1, Lake District

2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114.

3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.

4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.

5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.

6. That the request is for a 13’ front setback variance, a 5’ rear setback variance a 4’ East side setback variance, a 6’ West side setback variance and an 8’ height variance to build a new home. Lot Number Twenty (20) in Lakeries Addition as recorded in Deed Record Number 128, page 144 of the records of White County, Indiana.

COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located South of Monticello at 704 E. Terrace Bay Court.


7. That the variances herein authorized and granted are not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make reasonable practicable the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variances are based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variances under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.


The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 3 affirmative and 1 negative.

Attorney Altman stated, you need to get a building permit before you proceed.

****

#2593 Lake Co. Trust Company, Owner and Thomas Roche, Applicant; The property is located on Lot 28 and part of Lot 29 in Kean’s Bay North Addition, property located South of 400 N. at 5234 E. Bay Front Ct.

Violation: None

Request: They are requesting a 9’ front setback variance to build anew room addition on to the home.

President David Stimmel asked, you are?

Tom Roche stated, I’m Tom Roche.

President David Stimmel stated, evidently no one wants to speak against this variance. Any fan mail?

Director Weaver stated, no, nothing.

President David Stimmel asked, is there anything you want to add to this?

Tom Roche stated, no it is pretty much. I was listening to you about the survey and I noticed he didn’t put our grinder in either. It doesn’t affect us at all or trees. That is interesting.

Director Weaver asked, the little building that sets out by the water is that yours?

Tom Roche stated, that is a gazebo that is our neighbors, that’s been there since we have been.

Jerry Thompson stated, you are building two rooms.

Tom Roche stated, well we are building a garage and a room extension in the back and the side porch.

Jerry Thompson stated, I just saw room addition.

Tom Roche stated, it will all be tied together and heated. That front room extension was an after thought. Mainly because myself and my sister-in-law wanted someplace to go instead of the lake so we are going to put a spa or something like that. Then we realize we have young kids coming there small toddlers so we have to be able to lock it off and the way we are going into the side porch is through the existing front porch. We are making a dog leg so this thing is going to go in front so you can’t get in there unless you unlock the door. It has to be a safety thing when you have water inside, so it became quite a project when we started thinking about this. We never knew about a front set back. So that's why we are here tonight.

Director Weaver asked, is the addition going to be 2 stories?

Tom Roche stated, no, one story.

Attorney Altman stated, your house in the photos is the brown and yellow one.

Tom Roche stated, yes.

Jerry Thompson stated, this is a retirement home.

Tom Roche stated, I guess. We bought it in 1980 and it seems that way now.

President David Stimmel asked, Charlie any questions?

Charles Mellon stated, no.

President David Stimmel asked, Dave?

David Scott asked, does SFLECC come into play here at all?

Director Weaver stated, do they come in to play?

David Scott stated, usually it is marked on here somewhere.

Director Weaver stated, I can’t answer that. If you look at the aerial photo I gave you and if it is accurate, it makes it appear that part of the property out front is SFLECC property.

Tom Roche stated, we have combined those two lots. We did that a couple of months ago.

Attorney Altman stated if the variance is granted they are married together forever.

Tom Roche stated, yes, I don’t think we could have built on it anyway because the prior owner gave up some easements. I don’t think it is true build able lot, so it is just as well. We thought it was cheaper tax wise the way we bought them, so it doesn’t matter.

President David Stimmel stated, so they have an easement to the lake.

Tom Roche stated, the people behind us and the fellow next to us has a trailer back there and he has an easement, so it was 15’ of easement that was given up. Part of it is full of weeds and they don’t use it.

President David Stimmel stated, the houses to the West are all set farther back then your house sets.

Tom Roche stated, yes.

President David Stimmel asked, is there any sense that there might be some impeding of the view of those houses?

Tom Roche stated, no. Joe Garofalo is to the high side of us and there are trees there and I’ve talked to him and I have talk to everyone there. Pat behind us is high too.

President David Stimmel asked, Jerry?

Jerry Thompson asked, where is Homer Glen, Illinois.

Tom Roche stated, Homer Glen? My dog is named Homer too. It is right between Joliet and LaMonte, just west of Orland Park.

David Scott stated, if SFLECC does have a line there, does the setback have to be from them or the lot line.

Director Weaver stated, it is to be from the property line.

David Scott asked, are the lots lines ever out in the SFLECC property?

Director Weaver stated, no not normally, but they can be in the water.

Attorney Altman stated, I would tell you looking at the survey and this is being a bit general I would suspect that were the X’s are near the Lake Shafer is the end of the lot. The bottom part of the lot is not drawn on there. That is usually why they have that on there.

President David Stimmel stated, it isn’t usually for them not to show the SFLECC.

Attorney Altman stated, you are right.

President David Stimmel stated, as referring to it as Lake Shafer. We get into so much difficulty.

David Scott stated, my question is if his lot line is here and SFLECC is back here somewhere.

Director Weaver stated, SFLECC won’t encroach on their lot.

David Scott stated, they won’t encroach on their lot.

Director Weaver stated, it would be an addition to the lot. SFLECC owns that property that they have so it wouldn’t over lap.

David Scott stated, oh okay it make sense.

Attorney Altman stated, I hope they are right because this could be a problem with this variance if that isn’t on there right.

Tom Roche stated, I don’t know if I can help, but can I see what you are looking at.

President David Stimmel asked, are you ready to vote?

Jerry Thompson stated, I am, but if he wants to look at it, so he understands where you are coming from.

(Going over the survey with Dave Scott and Jerry Altman.)

Jerry Thompson stated, if that is not right then you have a problem.

David Scott stated, I don’t want to hold him up, but can we vote on this contingent with him having Milligan put the SFLECC line on here and take it to Diann’s office and if it is in fact 22’ off the property line the variance is good, if not then he is going to have to come back. Maybe you guys it is not an issue with you, but it is a hardship to.

Attorney Altman stated, the 22’ comes in play then doesn’t it Diann?

Director Weaver stated well he is telling us it is going to be 22’ back from the property line where ever that point might be.

David Scott stated, that is where the variance is in the front.

Director Weaver stated, yes, you are right.

Attorney Altman stated, so if that isn’t so you’ve got a problem with your variance.

Tom Roche stated, well yeah, I don’t know where that invisible line is myself. I was told I think someone mentioned you had to be 30’ normally back. Is that it.

Director Weaver stated, from the property line, not from the water’s edge.

Tom Roche stated, we have our stakes before you get to the water those poles that he puts in.

Director Weaver stated, I was just going to ask you, is your lot staked.

Tom Roche stated, oh yeah there are stakes there.

David Scott stated, okay these corner markers you have back up in the lot not on the water.

Tom Roche stated, no, they are probably in 10’ or 12’.

Attorney Altman stated, we don’t want you to have a violation or a fine. We are just trying to anticipate this, you know what I mean by.

Tom Roche stated, sure. Do what ever you wish.

Jerry Thompson stated, your pins could be as far as 10’ away from the water.

Tom Roche stated, oh yeah.

President David Stimmel stated, it doesn’t say that on the survey, the water line.

Tom Roche stated, the stakes are different, the one on the empty lot is closer to the water while the one on the other side is further away from the water. So I guess you are right it does have a wipe out.

Attorney Altman stated, I guess what I’m saying to you is I don’t want you to be in a bind here.

Tom Roche stated, well I don’t want to do anything until it is approved.

Attorney Altman stated, you better check that out.

Tom Roche stated, well I guess I thought I did when I hired Jim Milligan.

Attorney Altman stated, the board can proceed to do the vote if they wish to do so. I would sure you check it out so you don’t have a violation.

President David Stimmel asked, do you want to make a motion Dave?

Tom Roche stated, through Milligan, I mean he is the only source.

Jerry Thompson stated, your surveyor, yes.

David Scott stated, yes go see him and have him.

Tom Roche stated, I can’t go see him but I can call him up. To get down here during the week is a tough thing, but I can call him up and have him do what ever you want me to do.

David Scott stated, have him take it to Diann.

President David Stimmel stated, so what you are specifically asking him to do Dave is to identify the SFLECC boundary as oppose to the Lake Shafer boundary.

David Scott stated, right and make sure the 22’ is in fact, well.

President David Stimmel stated, I think it is going to be less than 22’, I think it is going to be 16’.

Attorney Altman stated, does it matter if it is 16’ Diann on this variance.

Director Weaver stated, yes it will.

David Scott stated, it appears to be t the waters edge and not the line.

President David Stimmel stated, that is what it looks like to me.

David Scott asked, are you in a hurry to start this project.

Tom Roche stated, we need to get rid of the snow first, but April.

David Scott asked, can we put you off a month.

Tom Roche stated, that is fine.

David Scott stated, I’m going to make a motion that we table this.

Tom Roche stated, I wanted to come in here tonight because I thought we were going to have a nice spring and actually start the first of March.

President David Stimmel stated, so you are making a motion to table this until next month so Milligan can identify the property line.

David Scott stated, yes, this needs to be from the property line and not the water line. So you will have to change the variance.

Jerry Thompson stated, rather than him making another trip can Mr. Milligan represent him.

President David Stimmel stated, I guess my question would be do we need somebody to represent him.

Attorney Altman stated, I think you better since you have this question, you better have somebody.

Jerry Thompson stated, I was just trying to help him with his distance.

Tom Roche stated, I don’t want anyone, else I will do. I will have him draw this to the property line and give it to Diann.

David Scott stated, we can vote on this…

Director Weaver stated, if you vote on this and it isn’t right then he has to re-file.

Jerry Thompson stated, we can make it contingent.

Director Weaver stated, if you table it and it isn’t right, then all we have to do is re-advertise.

If he has to re-file then he has to pay the filing fee.

David Scott stated, if this isn’t right it has to be re-advertised anyway.

Director Weaver stated, if it is tabled he would not have to pay for a new file fee.

President David Stimmel stated, I see.

David Scott stated, he still has to come back.

Tom Roche stated, that is March. I will do that, I was trying to avoid that, I’m going on a conference.

President David Stimmel asked, who is going to do the work?

Tom Roche stated, Coachhouse Builders, they are out of Kokomo.

President David Stimmel stated, is this a pretty big project for them, can you lean on that to have some one here for that evening to save you the trip.

Tom Roche stated, maybe.

Jerry Thompson stated, we’ve had that happen.

President David Stimmel stated, I’m just asking a question, I mean the architect was here representing the Livesays.

Tom Roche stated, I’ll ask some one, I’m going to try and avoid coming myself. I think it is important and if someone isn’t here it will go into May.

President David Stimmel stated, when we see the survey we will know.

Tom Roche stated, he is having problems with the survey. When he drew it, it was crooked, and had to redraw it. I don’t know if he has the kids doing it or what is going on.

David Scott stated, I don’t care what is going on I just want it right.

President David Stimmel stated, so we are tabling it until next month and get a measurement to the property line.

****

Director Weaver stated, I’ve made some notes from tonight some things that aren’t showing on the survey that we need. Well like Johnson the topography, the grinders, the trees and on this one SFLECC.

David Scott stated, maybe not all of the trees.

President David Stimmel stated, that is right, not every tree or bush has to be on the thing. If the land owner it has to have to do with the hardship.

Director Weaver stated, what I intend to do is contact Mr. Milligan and kind of go over these with him so he will start realizing this is what we want. You’ve received a copy of your year end report. I tried to explain in my letter this year but I will also verbally tell you there is no information about building permits we don’t have anything to do that and when you see our income went down drastically that is why it went down. So keep that in mind. So if you want to go to the meeting on Wind Energy you need to RSVP to the Extension Office. The new ordinance I said I would give you an update on that. John Heimlich contacted me last week or so that Cynthia Bowen who was in charge of this project is no long with HNTB. She has left the company. We had a conference call this morning with both Cynthia Bowen and HNTB she has left on a friendly basis and is going to be there if we have questions or if HNTB has questions. We think we are still on track and so hopefully we will be seeing a final version I do think maybe we will have one more meeting before we get that final version to go over the tier 2 for the Wolcott corridor. John Heimlich indicated he wanted to have a meeting to go over that because we haven’t done that. That was something new added to the last Wolcott meeting. So hopefully we are still on track we are going to need some members help us work on the subdivision ordinance that is something we are not going to do with a full steering committee. It is going to be individuals, Dave Scott discussed you would be beneficial and Don Ward, Steve Brook, county highway, those kinds of people to go over the subdivision ordinance. Hopefully we are still on track.

I have a new employee starting in our office in 2 weeks, it is Melanie Harl.

David Scott asked, do we have anything in the ordinance about wind mills.

Director Weaver stated, no, but we will in the new one because we have had 3 or 4 companies contacting us to.

David Scott stated, we were somewhere the other day and this guy right in the middle of town had one of these things on top.

Director Weaver stated, since we don’t have anything in our current ordinance I’m treating them like a tower and you are going to have two special exceptions next month, they were filed today.

David Scott stated, for those.

Attorney Altman stated, they are towers.

Director Weaver stated, these are not the actual wind mills; these are testers, so they really are like a tower.

Jerry Thompson stated, those are testers, they are putting 3 or 4 of those in the county.

Director Weaver stated, this is for two.

David Scott stated, surly these are going out in the country.

Director Weaver stated, they are going even out pass me.

Jerry Thompson stated, they are on the ridge. It is interesting to see, there is a ridge that starts Northeast of Wolcott and runs clean down to Brookston and they want to build on that ridge.

David Scott stated, the idea is good, the one we seen was right in the middle of town and it looked like the guy did it himself.

Director Weaver stated, well if these tests come back positive they are wanting to put up wind farms.

Jerry Thompson stated, what those are going to tell is because I’ve had two or three of the companies contact us. They are going to put those up and then you probably already no this but I didn’t. The wind is not the same right here like it is 200’ north of here. As much as you think it is the same it isn’t. They will find those veins where the wind is blowing stronger than the other area. My first question was how frequent will these be spaced through our fields. I mean it isn’t like going 1000’ flagging it. If they are in a corridor where there is a lot of wind they might almost touch. Those blades almost touch, it is rare, but is might happen. The next one might we a quarter of a mile apart. I’ve met with Invent Energy, Horizon and have you talked to them.

Director Weaver stated, Horizon is who has filed.

Jerry Thompson stated, well at first they wanted 50 west of Chalmers.

President David Stimmel asked, how tall?

Jerry Thompson stated, to the actually center point 296’. Each one of those veins is a 130’ long. I was telling Charlie they come in on the train. They come in one piece and he told me about $1.5 apiece for them.

Attorney Altman stated, there are bunches over there 50 or 55 over there. The interstate if you go over there and look to the West Charlie.

Jerry Thompson stated there may be a single row or a double row. No body knows closer to time. One company wants a 5 year commitment and the other one wants a 3 year commitment.

David Scott stated, then do they sell the power to NIPSCO or do they have there own.

Jerry Thompson stated, well here you go, one wants to sell to NIPSCO which I have a substation on the farm. The other one, their intentions is to sell to Indiana/Michigan which has the power lines that cut through Indiana. Their cost will be about 4 cents a kilowatt.

President David Stimmel stated, what is amazing to me is that they don’t want a longer commitment. 3 to 5 years is short.

Jerry Thompson stated, that is just to do the study then they say they could be breaking ground as soon as two years. It all depends on how everyone works together. If 3 or 4 neighbors in a row want to work under one company they will get rolling quicker, but if every other property owner is with a different company it will complicate it.

Attorney Altman stated, it will be tough to get those companies to buy it too. They’ve had trouble with the guy, it is different. But the guy up at Fair Oaks he has put in a generated down there and he is trying to get it sold to NIPSCO and they will buy it but not at an agreeing price.

Jerry Thompson stated, the do not have these in the Midwest.

President David Stimmel stated, this is off the subject, but on the internet the other day you are talking about green companies that are doing things for the environment. The ING Company, in about 2 or 3 years they will be absolutely carbon neutral. In other words they won’t put anymore carbon into the atmosphere then what they can take out. I don’t have any details but that is their goal to be carbon neutral.

Jerry Thompson stated, I think it is great for a lot of reasons it is a simply way to generate electricity. Each one of those bases is a 100 yards of concrete.

President David Stimmel stated, a 100 yards.

Jerry Thompson stated you can farm right up next to them and it actually goes into the ground 8’ and then there is a foot print under the ground. These are not going to fall over.

Attorney Altman stated, the only thing and I don’t know as long as they are not called a sink, by that as long as they are going to generate more energy than you put in it. That is where the worry is because of that big concrete down there.

The meeting adjourned.

Respectfully submitted,

David Scott, Secretary

Diann Weaver, Director

White County Area Plan Commission