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The White County Board of Zoning Appeals met on Thursday, April 19, 2007 at 7:30 p.m. in the Commissioners’ Meeting Room, Second Floor, County Building, Monticello, Indiana.

Members attending were: David Scott, Charles Mellon, Jerry Thompson, Gerald Cartmell and David Stimmel. Also attending were Attorney Jerry Altman and Director Diann Weaver.

Visitors attending were: Tonie & Carolyn Snyder, Tom Roche, Ron Maple, John & Carol Floodas, Eric Lilly, Michael Kearney, John & Dianna Tomisek, John Doster, Joan Lavin, Tim Conroy, Don Pauken, Kenny George, Dan Harvey, Mark Lebner, Katie Ingler, Bradley Drake, Jackson Drake, and Jon Thompson.

The meeting was called to order by President David Stimmel and roll call was taken. Jerry Thompson made a motion to dispense with reading and approve the minutes of the March 15, 2007 meeting. Motion was seconded by and carried unanimously. Attorney Altman swore in all Board members and audience members.

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#2593 Lake Co. Trust Company, Owner and Thomas Roche, Applicant; The property is located on Lot 28 and part of Lot 29 in Kean’s Bay North Addition, property located South of 400 N. at 5234 E. Bay Front Court. Continued from February 15, 2007 and March 15, 2007.

Violation: None

Request: They are requesting a 20’ front setback variance to build a new room addition on to the home.

President David Stimmel asked, and you are Mr. Roche?

Tom Roche stated, yes I am.

President David Stimmel stated, thank you. Can you hold on just a minute while everybody gets their…

Tom Roche stated, sure.

President David Stimmel asked, is there anything you wanted to add, Mr. Roche, to this?

Tom Roche stated, um, well I wasn’t here last meeting, my brother in law showed up and um he, somebody has asked him on the extension why don’t you just build it so the side of, uh, the side portion that were putting on, gazebo type front and uh, uh, if he would have thought for a second, we have a boat launch, right on the property there. Technically you could put two things side by side, but you’d be, within a foot or less of the boat launch within a straight line. And I thought that would be, I never even assumed, never even thought of doing that, because of that. But uh, I noticed that our good friend Milligan, he uh, I don’t know if he had to do that or what, but I noticed he doesn’t even show the boat launch on the, on the, on the site surv... you know the survey. But we’ve gone thru this thing about three times. So…

President David Stimmel asked, does he have any pictures?

Director Weaver stated, I don’t, no, no.

Tom Roche, you may have pictures, so you may even show that for all I know, you know, you might even have the boat launch on the property. But that was just one thing I wanted to bring up.

Director Weaver stated, here, this might show it better.

President David Stimmel stated, yeah.

Tom Roche stated, whatever, this is the third time, this is the charm. So whatever happens tonight is it.

President David Stimmel asked, Mr. Roche, do you mind showing us, on these pictures, where that boat launch might be? I, I believe we’re looking at a, at a, covered uh, area here.

Tom Roche stated, yeah, out on…


Director Weaver stated, this might be easier too. This is an aerial photo here if that is easier for you to see.

Tom Roche stated, yeah, its, boy that’s quite the digital. I took a couple pictures before I came here with my digital but I, there on my camera. This looks like it here, right here. It’s what it looks like here.

President David Stimmel stated, Okay.

Tom Roche stated, right, and here’s the cottage. If you go in a straight line across this is like a straight line across, this is like 26 feet over.

President David Stimmel stated, Okay.

Tom Roche stated, that’s been there since whenever the guy built the cottage, like 1950.

President David Stimmel stated, alright.

Director Weaver asked, do you want me to show the other tables?

President David Stimmel stated, if we’re looking at it, we think it’s on lot 29. And its, the digital photograph is not very good.

Tom Roche stated, we’ve combined both lots already, downstairs.

President David Stimmel stated, right. Jerry, did you have any questions?

Jerry Thompson asked, Diann, you get any response from anyone on this? This time.

Director Weaver stated, no. I don’t.

Jerry Thompson stated, Okay, okay. I, I have nothing then.

Director Weaver stated, I don’t think we’ve had, even anyone at the last meetings either.

Jerry Thompson stated, well I didn’t think so, but I thought, just in case.

President David Stimmel stated, hey Dave.

Dave Scott stated, uh, you’re, you’re, uh you’re claiming your hardship is that it’s in the way of the boat launch, is that what you’re saying?

Tom Roche stated, well, I just bring that up. I think if you built it side, next to the side porch you might squeeze it in, but it would be awfully tight, so we never even considered that. Plus that side of the lot as selfish, as selfish as it may sound, is our only flat area. And that’s the only place any of the kids get to, you know, to use for whatever their playing, volleyball and all the other toss games and that. That’s, everything else is like on a hill so you cant uh, so we always left that pristine as much as we could, side of the house. That’s why were only going out twelve feet. Everybody says why don’t you build your room extension on the side? You know, no, that takes away that whole, that whole property that would be our only level land. So, that was the logic behind it.

President David Stimmel stated, okay. Charlie, Gerald, okay. Are we ready to vote?

Jerry Thompson stated, yes.

President David Stimmel stated, Okay ready to vote.

The Board finds the following:

1. That the property is properly zoned L-1, Lake District

2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114 and will be joined for this use.

3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.

4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.

5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.

6. That the request is for 20’ front setback variance to build a new room addition on to the home on Lots numbered Twenty-eight (28) and Twenty-nine (29) in Kean’s Bay North Addition in Liberty Township, White County, Indiana.

Except a parcel of land located in the Northwest Quarter (1/4) of Section 9, Township 27, North, Range 3 West in Liberty Township, White County, Indiana and described more fully as follows:

Beginning at a point which is one hundred and fifty-four and seven tenths (154.7) feet south twenty-nine degrees and four minutes East (S29° 4’ E) of the Northeast corner of Lot number Twenty-nine (29) in Keans Bay North Addition and running thence North Twenty-nine degrees and Four minutes West (N 29° 4’ W) one hundred and fifty-four and seven tenths (154.7) feet; thence South eighty-two degrees and thirty minutes West (S 82° 30’ W) four (4) feet thence South Twenty-eight degrees and eleven Minutes East (S 28° 11’ E) One hundred fifty-five and eight tenths (155.8) feet; thence along the water’s edge of Lake Shafer Six (6) feet to the point of beginning, containing two hundredths of an acre (.02), more or less.

This tract of land being off of the East side of Lot Twenty-nine (29) in Keans Bay North Addition as recorded in Deed Record Book 126, Page 516 in the Office of the White county Recorder.

COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located South of 400 N. at 5234 Bay Front Court.

7. That the variance herein authorized and granted is not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make typical or recurrent the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said condition or situation of the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variance is based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variance under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.

The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 4 affirmative and 1 negative.

Attorney Altman stated, you need to get a building permit before you proceed.

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#2594 John F. & Dianna J. Tomisek; The property is located on Lot 23 in Elmer Girtz’s Camp, property located East of Lowe’s Bridge at 4713 E. Elmer Girtz Drive. Continued from March 15, 2007.

Violation: None

Request: They are requesting a 5’ front setback variance and a 4’ East side setback variance to build a room addition and bring the home into compliance.

President David Stimmel stated, and if you would. State your names’ please.

Diann Tomisek stated, Dianna Tomisek.

John Tomisek stated, John Tomisek.

President David Stimmel stated, thank you.

President David Stimmel asked, is there anything you want to add to what we, what I just read?

Diann Tomisek stated, I don’t think so. Do you have any questions in regards to the…

President David Stimmel stated, actually we received quite a bit of material, O.K., and that’s fine, it really is. But I tell you it’s the first we’ve seen it, so it may take just a couple minutes to…

Diann Tomisek stated, okay, well when we were here the first time, we felt that we left, we weren’t adequately prepared to present and we felt that you maybe didn’t, you know get the big picture so we tried to make it…

President David Stimmel stated, that’s great. That’s great. Do you guys want to take a few minutes to look at this or…how do you want to…

Director Weaver asked, did everyone find what, what we’re referring to? You had a packet there with your pictures tonight. Okay.

President David Stimmel stated, it says April 11th.

Diann Tomisek stated, well we spent a full day here in this building going from one department to another trying to make sure we had the information we needed correct and tried to understand it as best we could too.

President Stimmel stated, yeah we can see that.

Jerry Thompson asked, Diann, you got any response from anyone?

Director Weaver stated, I don’t believe so, no.

Jerry Thompson stated, Okay.

President David Stimmel stated, if I understand the first page of your document here, you’re saying that essentially that all the other lots in the Girts addition are 75 to 150 foot. The only lot that’s 50 foot is lot number 23 right?

Diann Tomisek stated, that’s correct, we’re really kind of landlocked.

President David Stimmel stated, just want to be sure I’m reading that correctly.

Diann Tomisek stated, yeah, it seemed kind of wordy there as we were doing it. We kept trying to re-put it together so that people would understand it.

President David Stimmel stated, quite frankly, I think you did a fine job. Gerald do you have any questions?

Gerald Cartmell stated, I don’t.

President David Stimmel asked, Charlie?

Charles Mellon stated, no.

President David Stimmel stated, Dave?

Dave Stimmel stated, I don’t have anything. Dave uh Jerry?

Jerry Thompson stated, no.

President David Stimmel stated, I guess that I’m a little confused in your letter and then looking at the very last piece of your document and it appears to me that all those lots are 50 foot.

Dianna Tomisek stated, that’s the original when it was probably back, in like 1943 I believe, that’s how they were originally divided. And we were just trying to show the difference between originally when they were like 50 foot lots and what they look like now and I don’t know why the one we have is the only one that was left that way, right smack in the middle.

President David Stimmel stated, that’s what I’m curious about. I’m wondering myself how they, were the others combined over the years or…

Dianna Tomisek stated, yes, yes, thru the years if you go back and research it, people would take like a seventy five lot that was between, or they would take a fifty foot lot between two other 50 feet, 50 foot lots and they would divide it and the people on each side would purchase that 25 feet so it became 75. In some cases people would purchase a full another 50 feet and in some cases another 50 feet.

President Stimmel stated, yes.

Dianna Tomisek stated, that’s how it got so mixed up down the road. And then also as you head kind of north east the lots even get longer. Where we’re at the shortest not just the narrowest but the shortest end.

Jerry Thompson stated, the depth, right.

President David Stimmel stated, Okay. Any other questions from the board? Jerry?

Jerry Thompson asked, no, anyone here?

President David Stimmel asked, I’m sorry, yeah, anybody in the audience that would like to speak to the variance at all? If I missed that, you folks need to understand that anybody wants to raise your hand, please let us, be notified.

Charles Mellon stated, you missed the first one.

President David Stimmel stated, I know and I missed the first one. Keep me in line.

Director Weaver stated, you’re still learning, we’ll let you…

President David Stimmel stated, yep, just, just…ready, ready to vote?

Jerry Thompson stated, yep

President David Stimmel stated, okay, were going to vote.

The Board finds the following:

1. That the property is properly zoned L-1, Lake District

2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2

3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.

4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.

5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.

6. That the request is for a 5’ front setback variance and a 4’ East side setback variance to build a room addition and bring the home into compliance on Lot Number Twenty-Three (23) in “Elmer Girtz’s Camp” in Liberty Township, White County, Indiana.

COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located North of Lowe’s Bridge at 4713 Elmer Girtz Road.

7. That the variances herein authorized and granted are not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make reasonable practicable the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variances are based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variances under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.

The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 3 affirmative and 2 negative.

Jerry Altman stated, you need to get a building permit before you proceed.

Dianna Tomisek stated, thank you. Could we just make one comment please? We just want to thank everyone in this building. We really gained a lot of knowledge from the various departments that we don’t feel we had prior to coming here the first time. No matter how you vote went. We’re going to thank you all because it solidified in our minds this is the right place for us to do this and we were going to try to do something no matter what.

Board Members stated, thank you.

Dianna Tomisek stated, thank you.

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#2601 Shirley Mae Boessel, Owner and Eric Lilly, Applicant; The property is located on 10’ N/E Lot 3, all of Lot 4, 25’ S/S Lot 5 in Bollers Lakeview, East of Monon, on the East side of C.R. 300E and North of Monon Road.

Violation: None

Request: She is requesting a 5’ front setback variance and a 7.5’ rear setback variance to build a home on the property.

President David Stimmel asked, is there anyone here representing that variance? And you are sir?

Eric Lilly stated, Eric Lilly.

President David Stimmel stated, Eric, how do uh, ok, you’re the owner, ok, you’re the applicant then?

Eric Lilly stated, yes.

Director Weaver asked, and we do have a letter from Mrs. Boessel?

President David Stimmel stated, ok.

Director Weaver asked, stating that he will represent her?

Eric Lilly stated, yeah, we have a power of attorney letter.

President David Stimmel asked, is there anything you want to add Mr. Lilly?

Eric Lilly stated, uh, no just other than they’ve got, they had the survey done in October of 03 the setback basically would let it be a buildable lot that she could, she has a offer to purchase from another party with desires to building a home. She has never improved that property whatsoever. That’s the reason for her request.

President David Stimmel stated, okay.

Director Weaver asked, Eric have you gone thru the DNR, do you, did you go thru the DNR about elevation? Have you checked into that at all? I was thinking we had a letter from them.

Eric Lilly stated, I don’t believe we have ever gotten a letter from the DNR.

Director Weaver stated, I don’t know that it’s required I just…

Eric Lilly stated, the flood plain line there, the flood hazard is designated at the line on the back part of the lot line. That is the flood zone area. But no, there’s been no contact with DNR, no.

Attorney Altman stated, you probably better do that before you even consider building. I’m assuming something is built on this.

President Stimmel asked, is there anybody in the audience so I don’t miss it this time, Charlie. Is there anybody in the audience who wants to speak to this? Yes sir?

Ronald Maple stated, yes, I’m Ronald Maple, I own the property just to the, would be the south of it on the eight foot. And eight foot just seems to be a little bit close

President Stimmel stated, ok.

Ronald Maple stated, you know. That’s one reason I bought the place with the extra lot I wouldn’t have somebody right on top of me.

President Stimmel stated, ok.

Ronald Maple stated, and the eight foot just seems to close.

President David Stimmel stated, ok, go ahead Dave.

David Scott stated, there not asking for a variance on that particular side of the lot. Is that right?

Director Weaver stated, you’re right, you’re right.

David Scottt, the variance they’re asking for is different sides than what borders you. So they could build there regardless. If they want to change their dimensions to their house or something they can still be within eight feet of you there. Because that’s what the setback, side setback is.

Ronald Maple stated, alright, that’s what I wanted to, you know, it just seems like that’s awful close.

President David Stimmel stated, yep.

Jerry Thompson asked, do you have the same survey that we have? Sure, you probably. See they’re talking about this side. That’s what he’s trying to talk to you about.

Ronald Maple stated, see there’s a ditch that runs down thru here and comes out here, comes out right here.

Dave Scott stated, see this dotted line, that’s, that’s the buildable area. This is what he’s asking for a variance on this side in that little corner.

Jerry Thompson stated, he’s not coming any closer to you, he’s shifting it to the right. That’s what that dotted line is.

President David Stimmel asked, the variances on which sides?

Director Weaver stated, the front.

President David Stimmel asked, this would be the front?

Director Weaver stated, uh huh, and the back.

President David Stimmel asked, and it’s supposed to be what?

Director Weaver stated, 30 foot.

President David Stimmel stated, 30 foot and their going to be over 5 foot there.

Director Weaver stated, and then 20 foot back here.

President David Stimmel asked, and it has to be 20 foot here?

Director Weaver stated, right, but their asking to go twelve and a half.

President David Stimmel stated, so this is the area they can build the house.

Attorney Altman stated, the dimensions are the front that is toward the lake, the rear toward three hundred. That he is asking to vary. O.K. Mr. Maple. So those would be less if the ordinance requirements were not varied.

Ronald Maple stated, well what we would worry about (inaudible) there’s a ditch that runs down here like this and up here like this and it comes down thru here and we was worried about the wash and stuff because where they grated that right now, you can wade out there and not get your ankles wet.

Attorney Altman stated, so you’re talking about a ditch that comes north of the property and comes across the property.

Ronald Maple stated, front property line.

Attorney Altman stated, basically about where the six four point one five is on the survey and then goes down towards where the thirty is on the survey and then exits into the lake.

Ronald Maple stated, ya at uh, 2915.

Attorney Altman stated, O.K. very good.

President David Stimmel stated, just for the board, I had to have Diann help me with a little bit to, but the, the, the drawing on the back of the staff report, the dotted line is where if she if somebody was going to build there, that’s the legal area that they could build within. That dotted line. So in order for them to be able to build they have to you know in order to build the size of house or with that kind of a variance and the proposed house it’s twenty eight and a half. That’s why their asking for the variance if I’m stating that correctly.

David Scott asked, Diann, do you have a concern about that being in a flood plan? Why did you ask that?

Director Weaver stated, Yeah, but I don’t know with the top of the bank it may not be a problem Dave. That’s not, I don’t deal with that end of it anymore, so I have not looked at the flood maps.

David Scott asked, so how would we know if somebody builds on a flood plane?

Director Weaver stated, well, before he, possibly before he, if Dave Anderson, the building inspector has a concern, he will require them to go thru the DNR prior to issuing the building permit. Dave’s pretty good at the elevations and things. He knows better when there’s possibly a problem more than I do.

President David Stimmel asked, Jerry, any questions?

Vice President Jerry Thompson stated, no, I don’t think so.

President David Stimmel stated, yes ma’am.

Joan Lavin stated, I’d like to speak please.

President David Stimmel stated, would you please. Come to the microphone.

Joan Lavin stated, my name is Joan Lavin, I live north of this lot. And if you look at the survey you will see where it says existing house, right next to that existing house is a driveway back to my house which is about where the north sign is on this survey. And next to that is a parking lot for the little existing house. Now the existing house, if this building is built will not be able to have any view of the lake. And I won’t have any view of the street because this house will be blocking my view. And I truly think it’s to close to my property.

President David Stimmel stated, believe it or not, that’s not the side its being, asked for a varience either. The north side is not being asked, or request. It’s the east and west side.

Joan Lavin stated, I realize that but that’s my reason for objecting is the blocking of the view from both houses.

President David Stimmel stated, okay, thank you very much ma’am.

Joan Lavin asked, is there something else I can explain to you? That little creek that he was telling you about. It’s not shown on the survey.

President Stimmel stated, right.

Joan Lavin asked, can I answer any questions about that?

President David Stimmel stated, sure, absolutely, I mean, if somebody somebodys got something.

Joan Lavin asked, no questions?

President David Stimmel stated, O.K.


Director Weaver stated, I did get pictures of that, so they do have pictures that show that…

Joan Lavin stated, I see.

Director Weaver stated, that may be why they don’t have any questions on that. So..

Joan Lavin stated, probably. Thank You.

President David Stimmel, thank you ma’am.

David Scott stated, I have a question for our attorney. If he was building that inside the setbacks, would, could he be issued a permit even if it blocked their view?

Attorney Altman stated, yes, yes it could. As long as it was in, within the setback lines and uh, as I understand that looking at the survey of Mr. Milligan’s is the dotted line, its sort of a trapezoid, but yes he could. It looks like it extends out so it blocks it more than that the way their requesting as I look at that survey Dave but uh, they can go to that corner up there where that ten is it looks like they probably got surely have fifteen foot up there that they could put a home in that side and go up to a fairly significant size lot on the other side, on the south side.

Joan Lavin asked, may I add something else please?

President David Stimmel stated, yes ma’am.

Joan Lavin stated, on the lot where it says, “existing house on the north side” when it rains real hard, that whole street gets flooded. Now if there’s any, any depression around the new, the intended new house then that will also be flooded. And I mean it really floods. I had to dig a, someone locked the little creek up. I had to dig that out, I had to put a big culvert under my driveway that cost $6000.00, and I don’t need anything else that will cause flooding to my property. Thank you.

President David Stimmel stated, okay, thank you ma’am.

Dave Scott asked, got another question for you. What about drainage across from the.. if that is in fact draining her property. If they do something to obstruct that drainage is …can they do that then?

Attorney Altman stated, I think they’d be entitled to build it then as proposed, or within the setback lines.

Dave Scott asked, regardless of where the drainage goes? Would they be required to put drainage somewhere else for that? Is it a requirement thru somebody?

Attorney Altman stated, you can’t disturb the natural flow, but, however, I didn’t think that’s what Mr. Maple said, he said however that it was close in that area and came across there. But as I heard Mr. Cartmell said, being a good farmer, he knows you can’t do that. So if they’re doing that, whether if their variance is granted or not, they would be, they could not do that. In other words, if this does that, they, they would not be permitted to do that because of it disturbing the natural flow. Variance or no variance.

Charlie Mellon asked, Dave?

President David Stimmel stated, yes sir.

Charlie Mellon stated, according to the map, if she’s north of that, that creek is south of it, and his house is going to be south of that. The surface water off of any building he does there is going to get in the creek before it bothers her.

President David Stimmel stated, you would think so. But wouldn’t this be a issue for the drainage board or Dave Anderson when it, they actually get a building permit?

Director Weaver stated, yes, and the surveyor’s office looks at all building permits before they are issued to make sure that they don’t encroach on a tile or an open drain, a regulated drain. So it does go thru the surveyor’s office as well.

Dave Scott stated, well if it wouldn’t be a regulated drain, what if it was just a natural flow, would they address that or not?

Gerald Cartmell stated, not a court drain, I don’t think they would look at it.

Director Weaver stated, I don’t know.

President David Stimmel stated, I don’t either.

Gerald Cartmell stated, you’d have to request it.

Attorney Altman stated, that doesn’t mean she cant, shall we say, make that her business to do that thru maybe court proceedings or something like that because that is, that isn’t exactly something that we decide. It’s what they might do in a court proceeding.

Gerald Cartmell stated, I don’t know how we can vote either way until we now something about that I think. I mean, we are just causing more problems for the whole thing.

Dave Scott stated, can we request, what’s the word I’m looking for.

President Stimmel stated, we can vote, we can vote this with a condition or two. Is that what you’re thinking Dave?

Dave Scott stated, yeah, yeah, commitment is what I’m saying. Can we vote with a commitment?

Attorney Altman stated, not until you see the commitment.

President David Stimmel stated, well.

Attorney Altman stated, I want to see the commitment in writing before you, cause it, I’ve just seen them not come in writing what they’ve said and later on you’re stuck with a building permit and everything.

Gerald Cartmell stated, O.K., so let’s table it until they come back with the information then. Or whatever here on this water thing.

Dave Scott stated, you probably need to know the

Gerald Cartmell stated, we need to know the elevation and what’s going on.

Dave Scott stated, well of course Dave won’t have it, wont look at it till he…

Attorney Altman stated, sure he can find it out now.

Director Weaver stated, yeah, he doesn’t have to wait until he goes, I mean, I thought, actually I thought we already had a letter from the DNR.

Attorney Altman stated, so that and the

Charlie Mellon stated, which way the water goes.

Attorney Altman stated, that and the water situations which you’re talking about Mr. Cartmell right?

Gerald Cartmell stated, pardon.

Attorney Altman stated, you’re wanting to know water situation, is the drainage situation.

Gerald Cartmell stated, tell me the drainage situation, this is the one I didn’t go look at and I should have I guess.

Dave Scott stated, I’ll make a motion we table this until we…

Director Weaver stated, I have another question before you table it. I just want to make sure, and I didn’t think about this Eric when you first brought this in. Do, is there going to be an attached garage, or do they realize that we do require 2 on site parking spaces.

David Scott stated, I’m sure they do, yes. I know they do that, right.

Director Weaver stated, ok because we do require two parking spaces and those are required to be nine by eighteen.

Eric Lilly stated, right, right, see the actual square footage would be more like 1400 square feet for living area. Is what there proposal will be.

Director Weaver stated, O.K., I just wanted to make sure. Ok.

Eric Lilly stated, yeah, yeah, and on the drainage actually, this uh, the flood risk area where the drainage, I don’t know, the ravine, I don’t think it’s a court drain, I think its just a natural drainage area that comes down thru there. Actually it discharges beyond the point of the proposed area that is even possible to build in because the rest of it does fall past into the flood zone area. That’s the way I stepped it anyways, but you know, it’s…

President David Stimmel asked, ma’am you had a question in the back?

Attorney Altman asked, do we have a motion?

President David Stimmel stated, I’m sorry.

Attorney Altman stated, I just said do we have a motion here to table it.

Dave Scott stated, I’ll cancel my motion just for a minute.

President David Stimmel stated, O.K. sorry Dave.

Director Weaver stated, I interrupted his motion, I think.

President David Stimmel stated, that’s alright.

Joan Lavin asked, do you think it might help if I saw your pictures so I could explain it a little better?

Director Weaver stated, you’re more than welcome to see these. Here you go.

Joan Lavin stated, thank you.

(Board Members talking)

Joan Lavin stated, this is the small house and when it rains real hard the water from the field across the street runs over the driveway. I had to put a big burm to keep it from running into this house. I don’t know what would happen if it rained harder than it has…

Charlie Mellon asked, that brown house yours?

Joan Lavin stated, huh.

Charlie Mellon asked, is that brown house there yours, in that picture?

Joan Lavin stated, yes, this house is mine and this house is mine.

Charlie Mellon stated, okay, yeah, we see it.

Joan Lavin stated, this little house is right on the street. The water, this is 300E, when it rains hard, the field across the street, the drain isn’t big enough to take the water and it flood the whole street. I put a burm along in front of this house to keep the water from, because that house has been flooded twice, also behind it, I dug a ditch, where the creek used to be, and also a big tube under my driveway so it would take the water, now if we have a heavier rain I don’t know would happen to the other property.

Dave Scott asked, Eric do you have that staked out, where the house is sitting?

Eric Lilly stated, it’s not staked out.

Attorney Altman stated, before we go beyond that, the testimony of the last witness was based upon looking at the photographs that were submitted by the Director. It was on page, the photographs had 4 photographs and she was testifying, that I saw, off of the lower 2 photographs of that array of ten photos. Thank you, go ahead.

Eric Lilly stated, I, I just like to, just the one thing, I know that there’s a lot of higher ground upstream from that ditch. I really don’t think that’s where the water really comes from. I mean it comes from across the road and then down along the ditch and then underneath as far as the water problem on that property.

Charlie Mellon stated, that’s what Gerald and I said, them pictures, it looks like where he’s going to build, that ground is higher than where her house is, if you look right there at the base of them trees, up at the right hand corner picture it looks like a black line going down there that might be the water, headed down the lake. And as far as him building there, what water would come off of his roof or circle around his house, well then he would probably put in a drainage tube all the way around his house and run it straight out to the lake or if it even, or if they didn’t do that, the water run off there, off of the house, would go back to where that “V” is where that water is running it looks like. That’s about all I know, I know I’ve had a lot of water problems in the past.

President David Stimmel asked, Dave you have any more? You want to restate your motion or, you want to go ahead and try to vote?

David Scott stated, I think I would like to see a uh, the uh, the flood plain, uh where its at, or at least have Dave Anderson look at it, and I’d also like to have it maybe staked so we could go look at it so before we vote on it. What do you guys think about that?

Gerald Cartmell stated, sounds good to me.

President David Stimmel asked, do I hear a motion?

Attorney Altman stated, make a motion.

Gerald Cartmell stated, so moved.

President David Stimmel stated, you want to state the motion, Gerald.

Gerald Cartmell stated, we need to, just what he said, exactly, I mean, we need to..

Dave Scott stated, table it until we see about the water and all this stuff, see exactly where were at here. I’m thinking it’s alright.

Attorney Altman stated, have it staked to. And have it staked also.

President David Stimmel stated, alright.

Dave Scott stated, I think those are the only thing, two things we need.

President Stimmel asked, do I hear a second?

Dave Scott stated, second.

President David Stimmel stated, thank you. All in favor.

Board Members stated, Aye.

President David Stimmel stated, it’s tabled.

Attorney Altman stated, may I have the ballots back please.

Jerry Thompson stated, Dave, you might mention too again, the meeting.

President David Stimmel stated, the meeting, the May meeting, and I don’t have.

Attorney Altman stated, it will be tabled to the May 17th meeting.

President David Stimmel stated, May 17th meeting.

Attorney Altman stated, and there will be no other notice of this, so if you’re interested in this, this is your notice. Are you hearing it? The meeting will be the May 17th, hearing and there’s no other notice of this. Ok, just want you to know.

Joan Lavin stated, thank you very much.

Attorney Altman stated, you’re welcome. Thank you.

President David Stimmel stated, thank you.

****

#2603 Lake County Trust Company, Owner and John T. & Carol Floodas, Applicant; The property is located on Lot 4 in Amos’s Oakcrest Fifth Addition, on the West side of Lowe’s Bridge at 4380 E. Oakcrest Drive.

Violation: None

Request: They are requesting a 4’ front setback variance to rebuild an unroofed deck.

President David Stimmel asked, and you folks are?

Carol Floodas stated, I’m Carol and this is my husband John.

John Floodas stated, I’m John Floodas.

President David Stimmel stated, thank you very much.

Carol Floodas stated, good evening gentlemen and Diann. We’re here, we had, it was suggested to us when they put the sewer systems in, we live right on the lake, it was suggested to us by Jim Overbeck, the contractor we hired to inst…to fix our, hook our sewer system up to the sewers. He, our deck was old and all rotted and termite infested and Jim suggested we take the whole deck down. So we removed the whole deck and had the garbage people come and pick the old wood up and dispose of it properly. And we waited all these years now so we can get some money to build the new deck. So when we went to the lakes, Darrell and Joe, over by the lakes, Shaffer Lakes and that. I don’t know Joe’s, I didn’t bring that paper.

Director Weaver stated, Darrell Johnson Joe Roach.

Carol Floodas stated, yeah right, they said we would have to build the exact same deck that was there, no bigger, no wider, but that it was Okay. with them because when we had purchased the house about 10 years ago we paid a one time incroachment fee, but they said we would still need to go thru the steps to see you guys to see if we can build this same exact deck that was all rotted and infested with termites. So John and I are requesting that we stay within the rules and regulations and you know if we can build the deck, because it is quite a drop, Diann, do you have those pictures that you took, pictures when Jim…

Director Weaver stated, yes I do, and they also have copies of your pictures.

Carol Floodas stated, well when Jim was doing the excavating, I mean the digging, it all went way up over along the house and I didn’t bring my, but Diann has pictures of when he did excavating. You can see how it tore all into, so he said you would need to remove that old rotted deck so I can get in there and hook it up properly so it will never be a problem for you in the future, and then along the lines when we saved our money you guys would build a deck, we want to do a maintenance free deck so we would never have this termite infestation again.

President David Stimmel stated, Okay.

Carol Floodas stated, so were requesting a new deck, the same exact measurements and I have a picture of the sewer system that was hooked to ours and our gentlemen next door.

Dave Scottt, do we have to keep this, Jerry?

Attorney Altman stated, yeah.

Carol Floodas stated, do you need, you can have that. No, can I have a copy though, but here’s where it went, cut right thru to ours.

Dave Scott, Okay. We have one. I didn’t see that.

Carol Floodas stated, it was a blessing when the sewer system came in because the deck was all rotted and it needed, it was a hazard.

President David Stimmel asked, is there anyone else that would like to speak to that variance, this variance? Gerald anything? Charlie any more questions? Dave? Jerry?

Gerald Cartmell stated, I’m fine.

Charles Mellon stated, no.

David Scott sated, no.

Vice President Thompson stated, nope, ready to vote.

President David Stimmel stated, ok, ready to vote.

The Board finds the following:

1. That the property is properly zoned L-1, Lake District

2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114.

3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit

4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.

5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.

6. That the request is for a 4’ front setback variance to rebuild a deck located on Lot Number Twenty-Three (23) in “Elmer Girtz’s Camp” in Liberty Township, White County, Indiana.

COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located North of Lowe’s Bridge at 4713 Elmer Girtz Road.

7. That the variance herein authorized and granted is not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make typical or recurrent the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said condition or situation of the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variance is based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variance under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.

The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 5 affirmative and 0 negative.

Attorney Altman stated, you need to get a building permit before you proceed.

Carol Floodas stated, gentlemen thank you very much, Diann thank you. Can we go? Can we go?

Director Weaver stated, yes.

****

#2604 Donald L. & Carolyn Burrell, Owner and Invenergy LLC, Applicant; The property is located on 79.932 acres, E ½ SW ¼ 32-26-5, East of I-65 between C.R. 700W and C.R. 800W at 6941 S. 800 W.

Violation: None

Request: They are requesting a Special Exception to erect a temporary 60 meter meteorological tower for the purpose of collecting wind speed and directional data. Identify wind characteristics across wind farm project area.

President David Stimmel asked, and you are sir?

John Doster stated, John Doster with Invenergy.

President David Stimmel stated, thank you John. You want to add anything to this?

John Doster stated, it’s fairly straight forward, its our first met tower and were likely going be going with 2 or 3 more as we sign up more land in the area for…

Dave Scott stated, nobody complaining?

Director Weaver stated, nope, I have not had any calls on this.

President David Stimmel stated, no calls. Anybody in the audience want to comment about the variance at all?

Vice President Thompson asked, do we need anything that states he’s allowed to represent Burrell’s?

Director Weaver stated, we have, I believe a purchase agreement in the file, and we also have a application that is signed by both Invenergy and the owner of the property.

Vice President Thompson stated, I felt it was relatively safe, but I didn’t know if we had anything documented.

Director Weaver stated, I don’t recall. Did you provide us with something?

John Doster stated, ya, in the contract, the long term easement that we have signed.

Charles Mellon stated, you’re not the one representing the one about a mile and a half north west?

John Doster stated, a mile and a half north west?

Charles Mellon stated, that’s Verizon.

Jerry Thompson stated, that’s right, no this is a different company.

Charles Mellon stated, Okay.

President David Stimmel stated, anything, any questions Gerald? Charlie? Dave?

Gerald Cartmell stated, no.

Charles Mellon stated, no.

David Scott stated, the only question I have is, we just approved one of these last meeting and its just something to think about, at, at, I guess there just temporary, but at some point or other, we keep dotting the country side with these things and, I don’t know. It’d be nice if you guys could get together and share information or something.

John Doster stated, that would be very difficult to actually happen, but in a perfect world yeah.

Jerry Thompson stated, this is our third, didn’t we do 2 last month?

Director Weaver stated, we did 2 last month.

Attorney Altman stated, its going to get pretty messy.

Jerry Thompson stated, all within 6 miles of one another aren’t they?

Charles Mellon stated, yeah, 3 different companies.

Jerry Thompson stated, 2.

Dave Scott stated, 2.

Director Weaver stated, it’s actually to bad they cant go on that cell tower right there.

Charles Mellon stated, that other one down south wasn’t Verizon, that one down south, 18, wasn’t Verizon, the same outfit that’s over in Benton County. Out west.

Director Weaver asked, how long is this going to be up? The others were going to be 3 to 5 years.

John Doster stated, yeah, it’s the same, same type of time period.

President David Stimmel asked, anything else Dave?

David Scott stated, no.

President David Stimmel stated, ready to vote? Vote.

The Board finds the following:

1. That the building site is property zoned A-1, Agricultural.

2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114.

3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit and would be for 3 to 5 years only max.

4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.

5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.

6. That the request is for a Special Exception variance for a Temporary 60 meter meteorological tower for purpose of collecting wind speed and directional data on The East Half of the Southwest Quarter of Section Thirty-Two (32), Township Twenty-Six (26) North, Range Five (5) West, White County, Indiana, EXCEPT the following described real estate deeded to the State of Indiana, to-wit: A part of the East Half of the Southwest Quarter of Section 32, Township 26 North, Range 5 West, described as follows: Beginning on the North boundary of West Point Road a distance of 1,344.30 feet Easterly (along the South line of Said quarter section) and 20.00 feet Northerly (at right angles to said section line) from the Southwest corner of said quarter section, which point of beginning is on the West line of said half-quarter section; thence North 0 degrees 31 minutes 00 seconds East 36.22 feet along said West line; thence South 76 degrees 57 minutes 16 seconds East 166.98 feet to the North boundary of West Point Road; thence North 89 degrees 29 minutes 00 seconds West 163.00 feet along said North boundary to the point of beginning, and containing 0.068 acres, more or less.

COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located East of I-65 between C.R. 700W and C.R. 800W at 6941 S. 800 W.

7. That the special exception herein authorized and granted is not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make typical or recurrent the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said condition or situation of the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said special exception is based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.20 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said special exception under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.

The special exception was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 5 affirmative and 0 negative.

Attorney Altman stated, you need to get a building permit before you proceed.

****

#2605 Timothy P. Sr. & Lana F. Conroy; The property is located on Lot 5 in Butterfield Camp Subdivision, North of Monticello at 6071 N. Butterfield Loop.

Violation: A room addition and a deck were built without a permit between 2001 and 2005 and are not meeting the setback requirements.

Request: They are requesting a 3’ West side setback variance to build a room addition and a 1’ East side setback variance and a 4’ front setback variance to bring the existing home and deck into compliance.

President David Stimmel asked, and you are sir?

Tim Conroy stated, Tim Conroy.

President David Stimmel stated, Tim, Okay, Mr. Conroy. Is there anything you want to add to what we’ve uh read?

Tim Conroy stated, um, no that was about it. I mean, the deck and the room, which is a screened in room was there when I bought the house in 2003.

President David Stimmel stated, Okay.

Tim Conroy stated, and I didn’t know the can of worms I was opening up when I went to go and put this addition on.

Dave Scott asked, so you, you didn’t put the addition on, it was, it was…

Director Weaver stated, well I might explain to how we came up with the fact that they were, that the addition went on between 2001 and 2005. I supplied the board with a couple of maps. One is, they are both from the GIS. One is from the aerials that were taken in 2001 and you can tell the deck is not there, or the room addition is not there in that photo. And then the other aerials that were taken in 2005 you can tell the room addition is there.

Jerry Thompson asked, you purchased it …

Tim Conroy stated, 2003.

Jerry Thompson asked, uh, was there a realtor involved?

Tim Conroy stated, no, my wife’s a realtor, and she, I don’t know how, it’s one of these things, she found it, brought me down there, and …

Attorney Altman stated, we have another complication with this, above and beyond the violation and all. This matter was a planned unit development and as you can see from this survey that they have here its part of a larger parcel of lots at Butterfield Camp. The whole unit was approved with the homes that were on it back in 1986 and variances were granted and setback lines were set in that are listed on the lots and basically we have the problem as I set forth is this matter has already been decided by the Board of Zoning Appeals. And the variances for this whole unit are already decided and imposed by the Board of Zoning Appeals. Not by you as individuals of that but by the White County Board of Zoning Appeals, so usually when a court makes a decision, that’s what you are, as a court, and you’re not allowed to go back and change your prior decision, so that makes this a double problem for this applicant and for this board.

Tim Conroy asked, what was the variance back then?

Attorney Altman stated, uh, it was set out on the, on the whole plan ok. And I can’t sit here and tell you exactly what the variance was for your lot number 5, but it’s set out in the whole scheme of the plan.

President David Stimmel stated, would that be what’s on this…

Director Weaver stated, um-hm

President David Stimmel stated, Jerry I think that’s what’s listed on the setbacks on the survey itself. Those are the covenants that were originally with that, with that subdivision when it was put into that planned unit subdivision.

Director Weaver stated, with one exception, he states that the front is the roadside and it is the waterside.

President David Stimmel stated, but it shows there the back 15 foot and the side is 5 foot each. And the garage is 1 foot off and the deck is 1 foot off the property line.

Tim Conroy stated, so really, the edition, will be more, more into the variances than closer to code.

President David Stimmel asked, are we thinking that the garage was built between that 01 and 05 too?

Director Weaver stated, no, I think the garage has been there.

Tim Conroy stated, yeah, it’s probably been there, its ready to…

Director Weaver stated, from my, from the information I gathered it says the dwelling was built in 1940 and the detached garage was built in 1972.

President David Stimmel stated, Okay.

Attorney Altman stated, and it’s allowed, it showed on the sketch here. On lot number 5, as it said on the Variances that were granted, things were outside the lot lines were not grandfathered that way. So if it burnt down you’d have problems with it, replacing it.

Tim Conroy stated, Okay.

Attorney Altman stated, but the real problem is, what I’m saying is, you’re asking for a variance of something that has already been varied.

Tim Conroy stated, Okay.

Attorney Altman stated, and that’s the decision, in other words, first decision is the answer.

Tim Conroy stated, it’s already been to variance, so I’m Okay.

Attorney Altman stated, no, no, you’re not Okay. You, it can not be revaried because the board of zoning appeals has spoken and granted these variances for these whole scheme of lots.

Gerald Cartmell stated, I guess my question is, that’s not his fault though, he bought it.

Attorney Altman stated, that may be but that’s what he’s legally, he’s stuck with that.

Tim Conroy stated, well what about the guy next door that put in a garage that got a variance last year?

Attorney Altman stated, and who is that?

Tim Conroy stated, Ponseato or I think that’s his name.

Attorney Altman asked, which lot is that?

Tim Conroy stated, um, it would be the one…

President David Stimmel stated, you’re on lot 5, was it 4 or 6?

Tim Conroy stated, it would be this one. He put in a garage, over, right here.

Attorney Altman asked, in the road?

Tim Conroy stated, well this, this is like a driveway I guess. And its, yeah, its, where’s 300. And he got a variance for it.

Attorney Altman stated, 300 is here.

Tim Conroy stated, yes, so right next to this one.

Attorney Altman stated, I don’t know. I’d have to look at that to be frank with you. I don’t know about that. All I know is that’s the variances are granted…

Tim Conroy stated, not that I want to get him in trouble or anything like that but…

Attorney Altman stated, the variances have been granted by this board.

President David Stimmel asked, is there anybody else in the audience that wants to speak to this variance at all? Okay. Gerald, anything, or Jerry, were you starting to say something?

Jerry Thompson stated, well obviously it puts him in a very awkward position, there’s got to be, I understand it’s already been varied, but as the new owner it looks like there’s got to be, he’s surely got an option.

Attorney Altman stated, I really don’t think so.

Jerry Thompson stated, he’s here trying to make it right and we don’t have anyway to work with him.

Attorney Altman stated, I don’t think so, I think the variances were already granted, in other words, the court makes a decision and it doesn’t get a second time if it’s the same question. Okay Jerry, that’s what I’m saying. You, there is no other answer.

Dave Scott stated, these lines that are on here, is that the varied? So the existing house was, was there a variance for the existing house because it’s over also?

Director Weaver stated, that’s where the room addition was done. Where you’re pointing to.

Dave Scott stated, no, the room addition is back here isn’t it?

Director Weaver stated, no, the proposed addition, but there’s a room addition that’s been done without permits.

President David Stimmel stated, hang on, hang on, please, because their going to try to pick this up on microphones and it will be absolutely impossible if everyone is talking over okay because you really have a good accurate recording of what’s going on.

Dave Scott stated, okay, so this is the part that was built on.

Director Weaver stated, without a building permit.

Dave Scott stated, without a building permit.

Tim Conroy stated, but behind it I think there was a, wasn’t my fault, but there was a bathroom, behind the screened in porch that I would assume was either built when the porch was built or before that.

Director Weaver stated, well at the time that it was….

Tim Conroy, yes, right here, that was a, that’s a bathroom so I would have to think that that was either, that had to have been there for awhile.

Director Weaver stated, at the time that it was platted in this Butterfield Camp, the house had a section that stuck out on it. Actually what made me realize that this addition was there is because I went to the Assessors office because what I was seeing on this plat and what I was seeing here on your survey didn’t match. We actually thought that maybe they were assessing the wrong house on your property and researching and talking to Jim Milligan we realized that there had been a room addition without a permit and the deck.

Tim Conroy stated, Okay.

Director Weaver stated, so that corner you’re pointing at Dave, was not there at the time this was originally platted.

Dave Scott stated, and what about the other corner? Was the whole front an addition?

Director Weaver stated, no, the north east corner. If you look in your pictures Dave, I believe it would be this area right here. This screened area.

Dave Scott stated, he owned it at that time?

Director Weaver stated, part of that time, yes. I can’t tell exactly when the room addition was doing because number 1 they weren’t being assessed for it, because there was no permit and number 2, the only thing that I can distinguish from those maps off the GIS where it was shown in 2005 but not in 2001. That’s the best I can narrow it down when that addition went on. And I believe that Mr. Conroy purchased that property in 2003.

Tim Conroy stated, 2003, so where do we go from here?

Director Weaver stated, I guess that is the question, I don’t know.

Jerry Thompsonstated, he can’t sell it.

Tim Conroy stated, I can’t tear it down to build a new one either because…

Jerry Thompson stated, no, that’s it.

Tim Conroy stated, not that I could tear it down and build a new one anyways, but…

President David Stimmel stated, Diann, what if, just to clarify it for myself, are you saying that any of this, any of this violation occurred when Mr. Conroy, after Mr. Conroy owned the house.

Director Weaver stated, I can’t determine that.

President David Stimmel stated, you can’t determine that.

Director Weaver stated, he owned it from 2003 on and the best I can determine the room addition was built between 2001 and 2005.

President David Stimmel stated, now do I hear what you’re saying Mr. Conroy, is that all these additions were on when you bought the house? In 2003.

Tim Conroy stated, yes, I mean the deck is what sold us on the house as I was telling Diann, I mean the house is 500 square feet on a good day. You know. The deck is probably 600 square feet you know.

President David Stimmel stated, now Jerry when we look at this thing and you talk about the variances that were issued with the original plot with this planned division, or planned development if you want to call it. So were saying that that 1 foot setback on that garage then was grandfathered in.

Attorney Altman stated, essientally yes.

President David Stimmel asked, so that the proposed addition on the 29 foot 12 inch addition already exists or is proposed?

Tim Conroy stated, it’s proposed.

Director Weaver stated, that’s why he’s here this evening.

President David Stimmel stated, ok, the violation then is for, help me again Diann.

Tim Conroy stated, the deck and the screened in porch.

President David Stimmel stated, the deck and the screened in porch.

Director Weaver stated, which is the North East corner of the home.

President David Stimmel stated, wow, yeah, a lot of it.

Tim Conroy asked, did anyone complain about the variance? Any of the neighbors?

President David Stimmel asked, no letters?

Director Weaver stated, no, no.

Jerry Thompson asked, are they in attendance?

Tim Conroy stated, no I don’t see any of the neighbors.

Jerry Thompson stated, their probably afraid to come, afraid their in violation.

Attorney Altman stated, I think that’s probably right.

Jerry Thompson stated, well seriously, really, there isn’t a, nothing there square with the world.

President David Stimmel stated, well I think the issue, the issue too becomes Jerry, to me, is looking at that, that particular property, we’ve talked about this many many times before and that is were looking at 1 foot setbacks and 2 foot setbacks, everything else next to him, one of them, the one on the right, lot 6 is 13 foot away and the one on the left, lot 4 is 4 foot away. You know, emergency vehicles, you name it, it creates all kinds of problems as it exists and that’s not your fault. I’m not saying that this is something you’ve created but I’m just saying that just in general this is one of the issues. A lot that is 30 foot wide at the back side of the roadway, 30 feet wide.

Dave Scott stated, unless there’s some way to prove, to date, when the additions were put on. We can’t assess him a fine can we?

Attorney Altman stated, you can ask him to come in with photos of the property when he bought it, a good realtor would keep those sort of things.

Tim Conroy asked, what if I had got the neighbor…

Attorney Altman stated, and have those all to present to us in defense to be quite frank with you. Because if I was coming in for a violation of something I didn’t do I’d sure bring in the photos to show I didn’t do it, that it was there when I bought it.

Charles Mellon asked, do you have any photos on it?

Tim Conroy stated, I mean, were probably in them, you know, from when we bought it.

Attorney Altman stated, I’m just saying, as you sure can defend yourself…

Tim Conroy stated, I can maybe get the, there was one neighbors, both neighbors I can maybe say something.

Attorney Altman stated, affidavits from neighbors are fine. We certainly can…

Tim Conroy stated, the one neighbor was, moved in right when I moved in too.

Dave Scott asked, but what do we do about, even the deck that’s on there? It doesn’t have a variance, would it be grandfathered even if it, what do you do?

Attorney Altman stated, it’s not grandfathered.

Director Weaver stated, it can’t be grandfathered.

Attorney Altman stated, it’s not grandfathered at all.

President David Stimmel stated, the thing I struggle with too Dave is that, is that, I live out in Butterfield Camp and I’m getting ready to see my place and I want, you know and it would help a lot if I add 10 to 15 foot of deck to it, you know, and I talked to the neighbors and their not going to whine, they think that’s ok, that’s cool. So I build that thing, no building permits no nothing, and I sell it as is. The next guy comes in, he knows I got it on there but you know….

Dave Scott stated, he doesn’t know he’s out of compliance.

President David Stimmel stated, he doesn’t know it’s out of compliance. He’s S.O.L.

Tim Conroy, yeah, I mean, that’s exactly, you know I never even thought. I mean, you saw the shock on my face.

Director Weaver stated, yeah, the deck I questioned you right from the get go on the deck.

Tim Conroy stated, yeah, and I was like, what did I start here.

President David Stimmel stated, yeah, I’m not, I’m not saying we need to punish this gentleman, I’m just saying that, that it’s a constant issue and it concerns all of us I know. That troubles me. I wish I had an answer.

Attorney Altman stated, things like this appear an abstracts and title work.

President David Stimmel stated, so the title work maybe was…

Dave Scott stated, but even if we find out that the prior owner put the deck on, what are we going to do with the deck. It wouldn’t be fair to make him take it off.

Attorney Altman asked, why not?

Gerald Cartmell stated, so lets put you out there Jerry and take it off your house.

Attorney Altman stated, I, if I had a violation, I’d take it off, yeah, and I’d expect to take it off.

President David Stimmel stated, but that’s my point Gerald is where, where do we stop, at what point and time do we just say well lets just not bother with the zoning law at all just do whatever the heck you want to do

Attorney Altman stated, throw it out.

President David Stimmel stated, just throw it out, there’s no reason to have the thing.

Dave Scott stated, what you’re saying Jerry is that we can’t give him a variance for the deck because it’s already…

Attorney Altman stated, it’s been established by this board back in 1986.

Tim Conroy asked, what about the addition?

Dave Scott asked, pardon me?

Tim Conroy asked, what about the addition, our new addition.

Dave Scott stated, now the addition, I have a issue with because the lot lines are on here, the buildable lot lines that are, that was varied in the .., so I think he’d, I don’t like granting variances 2 foot off property lines because you get just what you’ve got here. You got properties 4 foot from each other, you can’t walk behind your garage without getting on the neighbors property. So what I’m saying is

Tim Conroy stated, but there’s no other where, there’s no way to add on.

President Stimmel stated, well..

Attorney Altman stated, some things don’t need to be added on.

Tim Conroy stated, its 500 square feet.

Dave Scott stated, you may have to get creative and you know, you can be 6 foot off the property line there, you know, maybe you need to corner one that corner of that, you wouldn’t even need a variance. You get what I’m saying. But I’m one vote.

Tim Conroy stated, yeah I understand that.

Dave Scott stated, you know, these fellows may say yeah.

Tim Conroy stated, I mean, I’m even going to be farther away from there house with the addition than the garage is. And the garage is going to come down in 2 years.

Dave Scott stated, than the garage is, I understand that. I understand that, but at somewhere we got to draw a line in the sand and we’re not going to allow these things anymore. There once again, I don’t want to influence these fellows, I’m telling you my opinion so you know how I’m going to vote.

Tim Conroy stated, yeah, that’s fine. Yeah.

President David Stimmel stated, so do we, is what were talking about, lets address the fine real quickly, do we want to table the fine until Mr. Conroy has an opportunity to talk to his neighbors and see if he can get some affidavits and things that prove that he did not put this up after he bought it.

Attorney Altman stated, I think that’d be fair.

President David Stimmel asked, is that fair. I’d entertain the motion for that then.

Attorney Altman stated, I’d set a deadline that they do it by next meeting.

President David Stimmel stated, by the next meeting.

Tim Conroy stated, I can do that.

President David Stimmel stated, yeah, I mean, you really need, when’s the filing date Diann for the …

Director Weaver stated, I believe it’s the 25th of this month.

President David Stimmel stated, can you do it in the next week, I mean, just talk to them. Get an affidavit.

Tim Conroy stated, yeah, I guess Ill have to. I’ll talk to them and then get it to you by the 25th, is that what you’re saying or have it by the May 17th, when do you want it by.

President David Stimmel stated, you need it by the 25th or you just…

Director Weaver stated, no you should have it to me by May, by April 25th if you can.

Tim Conroy stated, Ill do my best to do that.

Director Weaver stated, I can actually go until the end of next week.

Tim Conroy stated, Okay.

Gerald Cartmell stated, you’re pushing him a little hard, I think your pushing him pretty hard there, you know, maybe their living, who knows where.

Tim Conroy stated, yeah, ones in Tinley Park, ones in Lowell, and I’m in Porter.

President David Stimmel stated, I’m just saying that the deadline for getting on the next agenda is that deadline, that’s the only reason I’m saying that Gerald.

Gerald Cartmell stated, or he could come the next week or next month.

President David Stimmel stated, then it puts him off 2 more months, ok, but that’s fine with me, if that’s, whatever he wants to do, if he can’t get them in time. So do we have a motion to table the fine?

Dave Scott stated, I’ll make a motion we table until future meeting.

President David Stimmel stated, all in favor.

Board Members stated, Aye

President David Stimmel stated, Okay. the fine’s tabled; now we want to vote on the variance itself. Was there anyone, anybody want to discuss that anymore? Okay, you ready to vote?

Jerry Thompson asked, what’s the agenda look like for May at this time Diann?

Director Weaver stated, not to bad, at this point.

The Board finds the following:

1. This property is properly zoned as a P.U.D., Planned Unit Development.

2. That the lot is a proper subdivision of land as provided by the White County Subdivision Ordinance.

3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.

4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.

5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.

6. That the request is for a 3’ West side setback variance to build a room addition and a 1’ East side setback variance to bring the existing home and deck into compliance on Lot 5 in Butterfield Camp in Monon Township, White County, Indiana.

COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located North of Monticello at 6071 N. Butterfield Loop.

7. That the variances herein authorized and granted are not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make reasonable practicable the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variances are based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variances under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.

The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 3 affirmative and 2 negative.

Attorney Altman stated, you need to get a building permit before you proceed.

Tim Conroy stated, thank you.

****

#2606 Tonie G. & Carolyn L. Snyder; The property is located on Lot 5 in Block 10 of the Original Plat, on the Northeast corner of 4th Street and Boone Street in the Town of Reynolds.

Violation: None

Request: They are requesting a 16’ front (4th Street) setback variance and a 5’ rear setback variance to build a home with an attached garage.

President David Stimmel stated, and I bet you thought it was never going to get here Tonie. It takes a while.

Tonie Snyder stated, I know, I know.

President David Stimmel asked, do you want to add anything to what we’ve read.

Tonie Snyder stated, no, not really, nope.

President David Stimmel asked, have you got a bunch of neighbors here complaining?

Tonie Snyder stated, I don’t see anybody, not a one.

President David Stimmel stated, Okay, have we had any, no fan mail?

Director Weaver stated, I don’t believe we’ve received anything, no.

President David Stimmel stated, Okay. give us a second or two to digest things if you don’t mind.

Tonie Snyder stated, Okay, alright.

President David Stimmel asked, Jerry any questions?

Vice President Thompson stated, no, I have none.

President David Stimmel asked, Dave?

David Scott stated, ya, uh, Diann he’s got 2 fronts?

Director Weaver stated, yes.

David Scott stated, and he’s wanting the 16 foot off of this one, is that…

Director Weaver stated, off the south street.

President David Stimmel stated, off the south street.

David Scott stated, yeah, right, ok. Thanks.

President David Stimmel asked, Charlie?

Charles Mellon stated, no.

President David Stimmel asked, Diann what makes it a violation, the 5 foot rear would be this, this side, or, where am I…

Director Weaver stated, well they can, they can huh, since they’re a corner they can decide which one is their rear and they’ve decided that this is the rear.

President David Stimmel stated, this is the rear.

Director Weaver stated, yeah, they have to have 30 feet and they’ve got 25. See it tells you right there.

President David Stimmel asked, so really the hardship Carol and Tonie is just the lot size itself and the setbacks are just going to make it so narrow if we apply it specifically.

Tonie Snyder stated, I wish I could saw some off of the end and put it on the sides.

President David Stimmel stated, yeah, the lot’s 60 foot wide.

Tonie Snyder stated, I’d like to add also that its consistent with the other houses, if you look at the overall.

President David Stimmel asked, Okay. are we ready to vote?

The Board finds the following:

1. That the building site is properly zoned R-2, One and Two Family Residential.

2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114.

3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.

4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.

5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.

6. That the request is for a 16’ front (4th Street) setback variance and a 5’ rear setback variance to build a home with an attached garage on Lot Numbered Five (5) in Block Numbered Ten (10) in the Original Plat of the Town of Reynolds, White County, Indiana.

COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located on the Northeast corner of 4th Street and Boone Street in the Town of Reynolds.

7. That the variances herein authorized and granted are not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make reasonable practicable the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variances are based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variances under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.

The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 5 affirmative and 0 negative.

Attorney Altman stated, you need to get your building permit before you proceed.

President David Stimmel stated, Okay. We’re going to take a brief recess.

****

#2607 Jon W. & Kimberly J. Thompson; The property is located on 3.030 acres, Part of E ½ SE ¼ 17-25-4, West of Brookston on the North side of State Road 18 between C.R. 100W and C.R. 150W.

Violation: None

Request: They are requesting an 11’ height variance to build a new home.

President David Stimmel asked, and you are sir?

Jon Thompson stated, JohnThompson.

President David Stimmel stated, Okay. John, do you want to add anything John to what we said?

Jon Thompson stated, we own the farm ground around that’s around the 3 acres that’s just ground we plotted out around it, so, that’s it.

President David Stimmel stated, Right, Okay, anybody in the audience got any comments about this one? Okay, any fan mail or anything Diann?

Director Weaver stated, no.

President David Stimmel stated, nothing, Gerald, any comments?

Gerald Cartmell stated, it’s going to be a tall sucker.

Charles Mellon asked, is it going to be going to be a 2 story?

President David Stimmel stated, yep, 2 plus. Any other questions Charlie? I don’t want to rush you.

Charles Mellon asked, is there any trees around it, tall trees and stuff like that. The height, make it not look way up in the air by itself.

Jon Thompson stated, ya, we got a lot of trees around it.

President David Stimmel stated, Okay. Dave?

David Scott stated, that’s in the ag area so what are the setbacks front to rear?

Director Weaver stated, well, he’s on a state highway, so they have to be 80 feet back from the road right of way, 100 foot from the rear and at least 15 feet on each side.

Dave Scott stated, I always have trouble with these guys with the, coming in, when they live out in the middle of nowhere for height variances, I don’t know what the issue is.

Director Weaver stated, well but this house is 11 feet taller than what we allow.

Dave Scott stated, yeah, but there’s nobody within miles of him.

Jerry Thompson stated, well that’s not exactly right, there is another home, its, it’s a significant distance apart but still.

Dave Scott stated, it’s irrelevant, but I was just making a point.

President David Stimmel stated, that the, and the proposed new variance not that this matters either but it’s higher than that isn’t it Diann?

Director Weaver stated, he would’ve needed a variance.

President David Stimmel stated, he still needed a variance? Okay, any other questions Jerry? Okay ready to vote, ready to vote.

Attorney Altman stated, I’m curious here, survey here says you have no well or no septic.

Jon Thompson stated, well not yet, it’s a new construction.

Attorney Altman stated, Okay. I understand, but it will be a well and septic.

Jon Thompson stated, oh yeah.

Attorney Altman stated, Okay.

The Board finds the following:

1. That the building site is property zoned A-1, Agricultural.

2. That the lot is a lot of record and properly divided.

3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.

4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.

5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.

6. That the request is for an 11’ height variance to build a new home on That part of the East Half of the Southeast Quarter of Section 17, Township 25 North, Range 4 West of the Second Principal Meridian in Prairie Township, White County, Indiana described by:

Commencing at a railroad spike at the Southeast corner of said Section 17; thence North 00 degrees 33 minutes 38 seconds West (Indiana State Plane Coordinate System) along CR100W and the section line 80.00 feet to a capped with JLM I.D. ½ inch iron pipe (I.P.) set; thence North 53 degrees 33 minutes 01 second West 438.52 feet to an existing corner post (E.C.P.) found; thence North 65 degrees 09 minutes 23 seconds West along an existing fence line 494.16 feet to an E.C.P. found at the point of beginning;

Thence South 87 degrees 59 minutes 20 seconds West 330.00 feet to an I.P. set; thence North 02 degrees 00 minutes 40 seconds West 400.00 feet to an I.P. set; thence North 87 degrees 59 minutes 20 seconds East 330.00 feet to an I.P. set on an existing fence line; thence South 02 degrees 00 minutes 40 seconds East along said fence line 400.00 feet to the point of beginning, containing 3.030 Acres, more or less.

COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located west of Brookston on the North side of State Road 18 between C.R. 100 W and C.R. 150 W.

7. That the variance herein authorized and granted is not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make typical or recurrent the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said condition or situation of the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variance is based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variance under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.

The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 5 affirmative and 0 negative.

Attorney Altman stated, you need to get your building permit before you proceed.

****

#2608 Daniel Lee Harvey; The property is located on Part Lot 7 & All Lot 8 in Highchew’s Pleasant View Addition, North of Monticello at 5456 E. Highchew Court.

Violation: He sold lot 9 off when it was included with variance #2381 for the height of the pole barn.

Request: He is requesting a to amend Variance #2381 to have the 8’ height variance on Part of Lot 7 and All of Lot 8 so Lot 9 can be brought into compliance to be sold.

President David Stimmel asked, and you are sir?

Daniel Harvey stated, I’m what’s left of Dan Harvey.

President David Stimmel stated, I’m sorry.

Daniel Harvey stated, I’m what’s left of Dan Harvey.

President David Stimmel stated, Dan Harvey.

Daniel Harvey stated, yep, Daniel Harvey, that’s me.

President David Stimmel stated, okay. All right, want to deal with, well there’s been a lot of discussion about this Mr. Harvey, is there anything you want to add to this?

Daniel Harvey stated, first of all, I was never advised, I never saw anything where it was in conjunction, I built it with the okay of the other lot.

President David Stimmel stated, we’ve got a copy of the minutes Mr. Harvey from when you have received that variance, #2381, and it specifically states in there that those 3 lots are made together.

Daniel Harvey stated, I didn’t hear that and was not aware of that. You know, there was nothing document that I got to read, and I went thru all my stuff today.

President David Stimmel stated, alright, o.k., this is, …

Daniel Harvey, had I known that I wouldn’t have done that, you know, but there.

President David Stimmel stated, okay. All right. How does the board want to start with this, do you want to handle the violation first or do you want to deal with the variance?

Jerry Thompson stated, lets, let’s deal with the request.

President David Stimmel stated, okay in leu of, does anybody object to that or do you want to? Is that okay? We’re going to deal with the variance request first. One of the things in the conversations I’ve had with our attorney and with some other folks because the lot has already been sold, and I’m going to make this statement and if it’s incorrect Jerry you need to, you need to stop me okay, but because the lot has already been sold 18 months ago or so to somebody else right?

Daniel Harvey stated, yes, thereabouts.

President David Stimmel stated, with the ability for those people who bought that lot to sell that lot again is not dependant on this variance is that correct or not correct?

Attorney Altman stated, there could be an issue about whether it is. I mean, he’s put that in jeopardy because the variance and selling it. You can make the determination that that is so.

President David Stimmel stated, that, okay.

Daniel Harvey stated, there was a point in time when I first started talking to him that I was going to in front of the pole barn just take that one section where that cottage was and sell it. You know, so then we just opted not to do that you know because I had the barn out there so we opted not to do it and sold him the whole thing.

President David Stimmel stated, okay.

Daniel Harvey stated, but there was a thought to do it just to notch it out there where the cottage was because at one time he talked about hooking both of them together and they said he couldn’t do that so.

Attorney Altman stated, but that wouldn’t help the problem that Mr. Stimmel’s talking about.

Daniel Harvey stated, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, but now, ya…

President David Stimmel stated, what I’m talking about is the fact that there, lot 9 has been sold, you can’t go back and sell it, okay. And to the best of my understanding, the current owners of lot 9, I don’t see how we can encumber then from not selling that again. The only issue would be that when that lot sells, its going to have issues with it in and of itself in the fact that it has setback violations of its own. Okay. Let alone anything else that might of happened. The issue, here again, I’m just stating my opinion, the issue is that Mr. Harvey sold the lot off to begin with, period, when it should not have been sold. That’s the violation that were addressing.

Daniel Harvey stated, question.

Attorney Altman stated, that’s the building, violation of the building.

President David Stimmel stated, but that’s not actually on this, and I’m troubled by that Jerry and that’s something were going to have to address also I think that theirs another violation I think.

Attorney Altman stated, I see, okay.

Daniel Harvey stated, can take back where the building is sitting and, and take say, like when Dale built his house, I gave him like 10 feet of my property, for like 150 feet, is what he built his house. Is there a way to take like the length of that building plus 5 feet on each end of it or so and get a variance put that with my property, if their willing to do that?

President David Stimmel stated, we’ve been out and looked at it and the survey that I’ve seen, and you guys can, you got your copy of that survey, is it that building on lot 9 that you’ve sold, okay, is in violation because it encroaches I believe in a couple of different areas. And those encroachments can be resolved I believe. That’s an issue. Yes Sir. Come up front please. State your name.

Bradley Drake stated, Brad Drake, I just wanted to say that we’ve worked with Diann about addressing those 2 encroachments and she gave us the solution for both, there both simple solutions, we had a man who proposed to buy the property in her office one day, you remember that?

Director Weaver stated, huh uh, I remember talking to you but I don’t remember that.

Bradley Drake asked, you don’t? You told us what simply had to be done. They need to lop off a section of the deck with encroaches…

Director Weaver stated, I actually think that was his idea wasn’t it?

Bradley Drake stated, uh, it was your suggestion

Director Weaver stated, but it, but it was…

Bradley Drake stated, well it might have been his suggestion but you said that that would indeed solve the issue.

Director Weaver stated, I mean, it would solve the encroachment, yes.

Bradley Drake stated, right, I just wanted to add that.

President David Stimmel stated, and the only thing that I’m saying is actually the issues with lot 9 to me are an independent and separate issue. The issue before us really is the variance on the height of the building okay, and lot 7 and 8 and lot 9 will stand on its own, I believe at some point and time to address the variances and encroachments there.

Bradley Drake stated, one other thing I wanted to say Mr. Altman’s response to your question about can this property which has been sold be sold again? We had a title policy and the, and they did a title search and everything and found nothing wrong with this property and transfer of ownership.

Attorney Altman stated, I can just tell you that this variance was recorded and that’s all I can tell you.

President David Stimmel stated, right. And we can address it Brad, I think that their, with surveyors and everything with else we find that there are different levels of discovery when it comes to title searches and all those kinds of things.

Bradley Drake stated, was a local title company.

President David Stimmel stated, yeah, okay. All right.

Daniel Harvey asked, so how can that be fixed?

President David Stimmel stated, well I think the first thing to do is to address the, as Jerry said, we want to address the variance itself, and that is the height variance on the building and actually, that being on lot 7 and 8. Does that make, am I making sense or am I messing something up here, you guys gotta tell me, help me out here.

Dave Scott asked, if we grant the variance for the barn, will that clear up the issues on lot 9 as far as the barn goes? As far as their sale of the property or …

President David Stimmel asked, where’s that other survey Diann? Is that it? Okay. Thank you. And that’s lot 9, okay. Do you want to answer that Jerry or is there an answer to be given?

Attorney Altman stated, I don’t know this, I guess what I am, this is the, does the barn meet the setbacks with a line between 8 and 9 do you know?

President David Stimmel stated, right here it says 5 foot? It shows 5 foot so it actually meets the setbacks.

Director Weaver stated, the survey, yeah, the survey…

Attorney Altman stated, so the barn can be within 5 foot.

President David Stimmel stated, it can stand on its own.

Attorney Altman stated, yeah, if it meets the setbacks there, then it doesn’t have that violation or that isn’t a violation.

President David Stimmel stated, that it isn’t a violation, right, right. The only violation were dealing with and we will deal with it later is the issue of the sale of the lot number 9.

Attorney Altman stated, that’s the only one that’s noticed up.

President David Stimmel stated, so the, right, that’s the only one that’s noticed up, so the issue is before us then, is the height of building on lot 7 and 8, the height variance.

Attorney Altman stated, okay.

President David Stimmel stated, alright, is that, am I on the right track here? Help me out.

David Scott stated, the other issue I see is, but it’s not before us and it’s not on the, it appears the house is not meeting setbacks either on lot 7 and 8, but maybe, maybe that’s not what were supposed to be talking about.

President David Stimmel stated, I thank you Dave and maybe that’s why, why I was nervous too because actually in the notification it states that were really only addressing the violation of selling lot 9. We’re really not, not addressing the location of the house and Mr. Harvey hasn’t had the opportunity to prepare for that violation.

Daniel Harvey stated, the house is…

President David Stimmel stated, it’s not according to the drawings that we saw when you originally submitted for it, when you originally submitted the drawings for the house, am I correct?

Director Weaver stated, right.

President David Stimmel stated, you showed it 30 foot off the line on lot 8.

Dave Scott stated, I guess the reason I bring it up now is because just what you said about selling whatever you needed for the barn there, I hate to see this thing passed on to somebody, some unexpecting soul, and they come in to do something and they get dinged because the house is not meeting setbacks.

Daniel Harvey stated, I got the room, maybe we could sell the whole thing to the same person.

Dave Scott stated, that’s the answer.

Daniel Harvey stated, that would solve the whole problem.

President Stimmel stated, I know we looked at it when we were out there and you could see some space but its 5’ or 4’, I don’t know.

Dave Scott stated, but what I’m getting at, well I’m trying to solve a problem that were not even talking about here, so lets just…

President David Stimmel stated, so is there anymore comments you want to make on the height variance? Gerald, Charlie, Jerry, Dave.

Board Members stated, no.

President David Stimmel stated ok, were ready to vote on the height variance on lot 7 and 8.

The Board finds the following:

1. That the property is properly zoned L-1, Lake District

2. That the lot is a proper subdivision of land as provided by the White County Subdivision Ordinance.

3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.

4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.

5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.

6. That the request is to amend Variance #2381 to have the 8’ height variance on Lot 7 & Lot 8 in Highchew’s Pleasant View Addition, except 10 feet off the entire south side of Lot 7, in Union Township, White County, Indiana.

COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located North of Monticello at 5456 E. Highchew Court.

7. That the variance herein authorized and granted is not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make typical or recurrent the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said condition or situation of the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variance is based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variance under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.

The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 5 affirmative and 0 negative.

President David Stimmel stated, on the fine, or on the violation, any comment from the board on that? Mr. Harvey has already stated he didn’t realize the lots were married together.

Daniel Harvey stated, which is no excuse, I know.

Attorney Altman stated, need a motion as to the amount of the fine. Then you have a second, then you vote on it.

Gerald Cartmell stated, yeah, yeah, I know that, after that I mean, so we fine him, big deal, what happens then?

President David Stimmel stated, well we, it depends on how…

Gerald Cartmell stated, it’s ok with the world then, fine him whatever, then its ok with the world or do we?

President David Stimmel stated, well we can’t undo the fact that the lots sold, I don’t think, unless the purchasers of lot 9 want to go back and sue him.

Bradley Drake stated, we don’t want to do that.

President David Stimmel stated, okay. I mean, and theirs a future land owner to be considered also and he quite frankly might take that step himself, whoever that might be. Okay. I don’t think, I wouldn’t go to say he’s out of the woods. I think there was something that was recorded and he’s got an issue with it. We’ve got an issue with it. If we put encumbrances with these variances as we go along, and then everybody just does what they want then were wasting our time, we really are wasting our time, there’s no sense in doing it. So, any other, what other discussion? Jerry? Your thoughts?

Vice President Jerry Thompson, this is a new one.

Charlie Mellon stated, Can’t undo.

President David Stimmel, okay, I agree, I agree, I agree. Can’t undo it. Was there, go ahead Charlie.


Charles Mellon stated, back when that variance 2381, he evidently didn’t know what the deal was or he’d have done something then.

President David Stimmel stated, well, it says, if I’m looking at the, I’m looking at the minutes from the November 18, 2004.

Charles Mellon stated, O.K. I didn’t see that.

President David Stimmel stated, yeah, okay.

Director Weaver stated, I think he’s got a copy there too.

Jerry Thompson stated, do we even have any boundaries as far as fining goes, I mean, this is a first isn’t it? Jerry, for this board to deal with, selling part of the..

Attorney Altman stated, selling part of it, yes it is.

Jerry Thompson stated, I mean, we don’t really have any perimeters to work from do we?

Daniel Harvey asked, do you have the option of not fining? You have that option right?

President David Stimmel stated, yep, absolutely.

Daniel Harvey stated, Okay. just checking.

President David Stimmel stated, or we can fine you $20,000 and you can appeal it. That’s another option, I’m just telling you. You’re just talking about options, I’m just letting you know what the options are Okay.

Daniel Harvey stated, that’s an option I really don’t like.

President David Stimmel stated, and this here again, this is not, Jerry, this is again, this is not what were dealing with tonight, but I think there absolutely is another violation is what were going to find out and he’s going to be served up on that one also at some point in time and that’s on the location of the house.

Attorney Altman stated, Okay, and he’s trying to sell it, and according to the survey it violates setbacks, and that’s a violation.

Daniel Harvey stated, I think what the problem might be, the setback might be because of the deck when I originally built the house.

Attorney Altman stated, the house is wrong.

Daniel Harvey stated, the house is even wrong, cause we built a deck on it.

Attorney Altman stated, yeah, I mean by the look of the survey it’s even wrong.

Daniel Harvey stated, you know we added the deck after the house was built.

President David Stimmel stated, what do you think Dave?

Daniel Harvey stated, we did get a variance for the deck.

Director Weaver asked, did you?

Daniel Harvey stated, yes.

Director Weaver stated, I didn’t know there was a variance for the deck.

Jerry Thompson stated, I make a motion we assess a fine of $250.00.

Dave Scott stated, I’ll second that.

President David Stimmel stated, all in favor.

Board Members stated, aye.

President David Stimmel stated, all oppose.

Member of the board stated, no.

President David Stimmel stated, the vote was 4 to 1 I think. Okay, the fine is $250.00. That’s all you have before us Mr. Harvey I believe.

Daniel Harvey asked, you bill me?

President David Stimmel stated, I’m not sure how that actually transpires.

Director Weaver stated, the $250.00, no, you can pay it in the office. You have up to 60 days to pay it. If it’s longer than 60 days you get an additional $50.00 per month that it’s late.

Daniel Harvey stated, I’ll take care of it. Thanks.

Eric Lilly stated, I’m Eric Lilly, and I’m just curious now, if this property’s lot 9 and lot 8, and 7, would happen to sell, there would have to be full disclosure that there are setback issues and that there is a poss, on both properties obviously, because they both do, but with this left open like this, what other kind of disclosure would have to be made then?

President David Stimmel asked, what do you think Jerry?

Attorney Altman stated, you know more than we know about the real estate.

Eric Lilly stated, Okay.

Attorney Altman stated, and the other thing is, clearly from what I’ve seen, the building of that house doesn’t conform with the building map of the building permit. If you’ve said that, I’m not trying to repeat it but it’s very clear in addition to the fact it appears that it, it looks like it encroaches and if it doesn’t encroach it doesn’t meet the setback lines on that north side.

President David Stimmel stated, now what I think is going to happen also is that your going to sell these properties on Saturday, were going to serve Mr. Harvey up I believe for the other violations on the setbacks Okay, at or before that time, that’s his responsibility I truly believe. Whatever those are, however that works out.

Eric Lilly, Okay. that, there we go.

Daniel Harvey asked, now, if the setback involves a deck, and I have, I know I’ve got a variance for the deck, that’s a.

Director Weaver stated, I will check that.

President David Stimmel stated, we will check that, I mean, before she sends you anything, I’m sure shes going to make sure.

Director Weaver stated, and that’s what I told Mr. Stimmel when you said that, that that variance may shed a whole different light on things.

President David Stimmel stated, right, right, yep, it helps.

Director Weaver stated, Eric when the sale goes thru, you are, you’re the realator dealing with this right? When the sale goes thru will there be a survey done?

Eric Lilly stated, I’m thinking in this case there’s almost going to have to be a survey at the sellers expense on lot 6 or 7 and 8. Yeah, yeah.

Director Weaver stated, I’m curious what that survey will show, that’s why I was asking.

President David Stimmel asked, who would you have do that, just out of curiousity.

Eric Lilly stated, probably Jim Milligan.

President David Stimmel stated, Jim, Okay. Thank you very much folks. I think we’ve got that one behind us.

****

#2609 Michael & Kristin Kearney; The property is located on Lot 54 in Hunt’s Riverside Park Subdivision #4, Northeast of Buffalo, on the West side of Valley Court.

Violation: None

Request: They are requesting a 2’ height variance for a pole building.

President David Stimmel stated, and you are sir?

Michael Kearney stated, Michael, Michael Kearney.

President David Stimmel stated, pardon me.

Michael Kearney stated, Kearney, Michael Kearney.

President David Stimmel stated, Okay thank you Michael. Anything you want to add Mr. Kearney?

Michael Kearney stated, yeah I received a call from Dave Anderson that their might be an issue with elevation on the front part of the lot, and he told me that, and I was unaware of that until after I had already filed for this variance and he said I might be able to get that, a request for a 2 foot elevation variance also.

Director Weaver stated, no, it was not noticed up for that, so we can not include that tonight, the best we can do is…

Michael Kearney stated, no, he called me and told me to bring it up.

Director Weaver stated, and that was, we supply him a copy of our staff reports that we give to our board members for his review and that’s when he noticed that.

Michael Kearney stated, I’m not even sure that, the front part of the lot might be, but not where the building is going, so…

Charles Mellon stated, I was up there and saw that lot.

President David Stimmel stated, okay.

Charles Mellon stated, and it is low, the road’s low there really too, isn’t it?

Michael Kearney stated, the road is, the lot is higher than the road.

Charles Mellon stated, yeah, your lot, yeah, it’s a little higher, but, he’s got the lot all cleaned off and theirs nothing around it and theirs heights, trees, and other buildings there that are higher than what he’s wanting to build. So I think its okay.

President David Stimmel stated, okay, good input Charlie. Any other questions? Anybody else, nobody else wants to say anything about the variance, no letters, no?

Director Weaver stated, no.

Attorney Altman stated, the only thing I’d say is if Mr. Anderson is correct about that heights problem, you’d have to come back in and get that, re-do that.

Michael Kearney stated, I understand that.

Attorney Altman stated, so were not, we can’t address it.

Director Weaver stated, well, what I wanted to elaborate on that to is that if you do have to file a elevation variance there will be another filing fee and everything.

Michael Kearney stated, right, right, that’s why he told me to see if I could get it taken care of tonight.

Director Weaver stated, but you have the option of tabling this request and including it as part of this request.

Michael Kearney stated, no.

Director Weaver stated, just wanted to make sure you knew your options.

President David Stimmel stated, save you $75.00.

Director Weaver stated, right.

President David Stimmel stated, you guys have already voted, does that mean that, any objections are too late, okay. We’re going to take a recess then for a minute.

The Board finds the following:

1. That the property is properly zoned R-2, One and Two Family Residential.

2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114.

3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.

4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.

5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.

6. That the request is for a 2’ height variance for a pole building on Lot 54 in Hunts Riverside Park Subdivision Number 4 in Liberty Towhship, White County, Indiana.

COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located Northeast of Buffalo, on the West side of Valley Court.

7. That the variance herein authorized and granted is not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make typical or recurrent the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said condition or situation of the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variance is based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variance under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.

The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 5 affirmative and 0 negative.

Attorney Altman stated, you need to get a building permit before you proceed.

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#2610 Kenneth Dale & Susan Elizabeth George; The property is located on 40.00 acres, SW ¼ NE ¼ 15-28-5, Northwest of Monon at 5479 W. 850 N.

Violation: They built an addition too close that wasn’t meeting the front setback.

Request: They are requesting a 25’ front setback variance to build an addition and to bring the existing home into compliance.

President David Stimmel stated, and, Mr. George?

Kenny George stated, I’m Kenny George.

President David Stimmel stated, Kenny, anything you want to add to it.

Kenny George stated, no, not really. I think it’s pretty straight forward.

President David Stimmel stated, Okay, you want to ex.., lets, we can handle the variance or the violation first, but…

Kenny George stated, the violation happened, what happened when, after we got married we got this little house, raised most of 5 kids in there, and then we decided to add this garage on. Originally in the plans I submitted in 93 it was going to be a 24 x 24. Dad said no, you need it to be a 26 x 26. Well I got the building permit for 24 x 24 and ignorance of the laws no excuse so I’m guilty as accused on that end of it. Well I ended up building a 26 x 26 stuck it on the front because I was able to drop that roof as you can see on the photographs and make it look reasonable.

President David Stimmel stated, excuse me Kenny, let’s wait for just a minute. It’s been a long meeting, we have to take a restroom break. I apologize for that.

President David Stimmel stated, any questions Dave?

David Scott stated, have we addressed any fine or anything?

President David Stimmel stated, on either one of them, whatever you want to do. Knock yourself out.

Jerry Thompson stated, lets address the variance first.

President David Stimmel stated, okay.

President David Stimmel stated, any comments on the variance Charlie? Dave? Jerry? Gerald?

Board Members stated, no.

President David Stimmel stated, okay, lets vote.

The Board finds the following:

1. That the property is properly zoned A-1, Agricultural.

2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114.

3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.

4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.

5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.

6. That the request is for a 25’ front setback variance to build an addition and to bring the existing home into compliance on The Southwest Quarter of the Northeast Quarter of Section Fifteen (15), Township Twenty-eight (28) North, Range Five (5) West in Monon Township, White County, Indiana.

COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located Northwest of Monon at 5479 W. 850 N.

7. That the variances herein authorized and granted are not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make reasonable practicable the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variances are based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variances under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.

The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 5 affirmative and 0 negative.

Attorney Altman stated, you need to get your building permit to conform to this variance.

President David Stimmel stated, for that part, now we’ve got the violation and I just want to make a political statement, this is why I voted against the 250 dollar fine on Harvey is because I felt like that was extraordinarily low for the kind of violation that he did in the sense of, you know and the circumstances surrounding it.

Jerry Thompson stated, well.

President Stimmel stated, it’s just my opinion, that’s just my opinion that’s all I’m saying.

Dave Scott, some justification for that.

President Stimmel stated, and that’s fine.

Jerry Thompson stated, we know there’s, you another step to this and it will be more severe.

President Stimmel stated, right and that’s…

Jerry Thompson stated, we didn’t really want to nail him hard.

President Stimmel stated, that’s fine. That’s off topic.

Jerry Thompson stated, now if he’s just got one violation then we can really nail him. No, I’m just kidding.

President Stimmel asked, do I hear a motion on the amount of the fine? Anybody have a motion, direction you want to go.

Dave Scott stated, yeah, it was so long ago, I don’t know.

Attorney Altman stated, you justify what you’re saying, we had some old violations that were pretty egregious. Only thing I’m saying is justify your position Dave.

Gerlad Cartmell stated, it’s been along time ago, I mean, let’s forgive it. If it had been 5 years ago then that’s a little different story, but it’s been a long time ago.

President David Stimmel stated, Dave what was your feeling?

Gerald Cartmell stated, he’s out there in the middle of 40 acres.

David Scott stated, well, I personally don’t want to fine him either.

Jerry Thompson stated, I think we need to have a token fine if there is such a thing and not to be nasty about it, but next thing you know we’re going to hear how we didn’t do something you know. Theres a, theres a…

Charles Mellon stated, well lets make it $25.00 then.

Jerry Thompson stated, well, yeah, I can do that or $50.00 or something. Dave, you.

President David Stimmel stated, give me a motion.

Charles Mellon stated, make it $25

President David Stimmel stated, Charlie moves that it is $25.00, Dave seconds it. All in favor?

Board Members stated, aye.

President David Stimmel stated, the fine is $25.00

Attorney Altman stated, my comment is, like Jerry says, you got to be careful about the precedent you set. Because you get hoisted by your own bartered on this deal and it doesn’t have anything to do with this gentlemen here and that’s what I meant, justify your position and then later on you don’t have the problem of it coming back to haunt you.

Gerald Cartmell stated, my thing is, he’s got 40 acres.

Attorney Altman stated, and that’s what I mean by justifying, and I’m just saying from an attorneys point of view, you got to put these facts in there, otherwise everybody wants to be forgiven.

Kenny George stated, its after the fact, but is there going to be sometime that folks that own, well I own 120 there, 40 on both sides, is there going to be a time when that will have a different set of rules and regulations than people on the lake and people in town?

Dave Scott stated, it does now.

Director Weaver stated, what are you meaning by a different set of regulations?

Kenny George stated, just as you look at the whole scheme of things there are egregious things like he was talking about, and then, if your looking at a personal plat, not if you own 120 acres makes you any better than anybody else, but there’s nobody on either end, and nobody across the road, there’s only one other house in that whole half a mile.

Director Weaver stated, that’s something we can consider, I mean, that kind of goes along with what you keep saying Dave that their in an ag area.

Kenny George stated, cause earlier, Gerald said about another fellow, was it Thompson? You know, it looks like it, there ought to be…

Dave Scott stated, the only down side to that Kenny is if you don’t have a setback on county roads, where a snow trucks and things like that are going down there at a pretty good rate of speed there going to throw stuff back…

Kenny George stated, I understand that.

President David Stimmel stated, and the other thing you have to be careful about too Kenny is the fact that your trying, your not just trying to protect the guy down the road, but the future landowner, your kids, your grandkids, your great grandkids that are going to own this property at some point in time, maybe or something like that. I mean you really are, you’re trying to be sure that nobody’s sitting out there building one foot from a property line and creating problems around the lake. But its, I know, they may put a bio thing out at lee or something, I mean, I don’t know, and we don’t either, I mean, people 3 miles south of Lafayette, 25 years ago wouldn’t have had a clue what was going to happen down there. I mean, it’s just exploded.

Dave Scott stated, and your original house is probably, if you were going to build a brand new house from scratch, I suspect you would set it back because…

President David Stimmel stated, you would.

Jerry Thompson stated, I know what he’s saying. I got a larger tract verses a third of an acre over here on Lake Shafer. But back to, what surprised me on that survey of Johns there is a house there and Milligan didn’t put that on the survey, Diann. There’s one between his house and 18. There’s a house in front of him, Alberta Ades house is smack dab in front of him.

Director Weaver stated, yeah, you’re right.

Gerald Cartmell stated, I almost thought it wasn’t the right thing when I saw it.

Director Weaver stated, I tried to show that in the pictures.

Jerry Thompson stated, didn’t show the ditch.

Dave Stimmel asked, which one was that?

Jerry Thompson stated, Jon Thompson’s the big fella in the T shirt.

President David Stimmel asked, is there anymore business?

Director Weaver stated, yeah, don’t table

President David Stimmel stated, no I’m not going to table.

Director Weaver stated, or not adjourn.

President David Stimmel stated, we’re not going to.

President David Stimmel stated, is there anymore business before the board? Diann has something here.

Director Weaver stated, well just, I’ve got a couple things I’ve supplied you with in your information I brought to all of you, you do have additional information for Range Line Properties. Also, I’ve given each of you tonight a copy of another wind ordinance for you to look over. This is Clinton’s County. I know it says Benton County on the front, well I don’t know, maybe I do have Benton County’s here. Clinton County’s is who I gave you tonight. I think that’s all I have.

President David Stimmel stated, Okay, Don, do you have anything? Alright.

Jerry Thompson asked, you haven’t heard from the third power company have you Diann? Horizon and Invenergy?

Director Weaver stated, no.

Jerry Thompson stated, theirs a third one running around, I’m surprised you haven’t heard, okay.

President David Stimmel asked, is there anymore business before the board? If not we’ll motion to adjourn.

made motion to adjourn.

seconded the motion.

The meeting adjourned.

Respectfully submitted,

David Scott, Secretary

Diann Weaver, Director

White County Area Plan Commission

“I AFFIRM, UNDER THE PENALTIES FOR PERJURY, THAT I HAVE TAKEN REASONABLE CARE TO REDACT EACH SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER IN THIS DOCUMENT, UNLESS REQUIRED BY LAW.”

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