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The White County Board of Zoning Appeals met on Thursday, June 28, 2007 at 7:30 p.m. in the Commissioners’ Meeting Room, Second Floor, County Building, Monticello, Indiana.
Members attending were: David Scott, Charles Mellon, Gerald Cartmell, and Jerry Thompson. Also attending were Attorney Jerry Altman and Director Diann Weaver.
Visitors attending were: Doug Keesling, Shirley Keesling, David Wolf, Harold Myers, Jim Hicks, Robert Hutter, Eric Martin, Robert Garvin, Bill Bell, Don Pauken, George Leisure, Karla Piotrowski-Lubash, Tim Conroy, Lana Conroy, Brian Frost, Jerry VanDerLinde, Samantha VanDerLinde, Ann Copeland, and Kevin Ward (Deputy).
The meeting was called to order by Vice President Thompson and roll call was taken. Attorney Altman swore in all Board members and audience members.
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#2624 Carolyn Piotrowski ‘etal’ – Owners, Brian & Hildegard Frost - Applicant; The property is located on part lot 1 and lot 2 & 3’ W/S Lot 3 in Conwells Park Addition and 0.106 Out SW NE 9-27-3, Northeast of Monticello between C.R. 350 North and Lake Road 18 East at 5343 E. Wayside Court. Tabled from June 21, 2007.
Violation: None
Request: She is requesting a 5 ½’ East side setback variance to do a first floor addition and to add a second story.
Vice President Thompson asked, and you people are?
Karla Lubash stated, I’m Karla Lubash, owner of the estate by rights of survivorship for Carolyn Piotrowski, she’s passed away.
Vice President Thompson asked, do we have that?
Attorney Altman stated, um hum.
Vice President Thompson stated, okay, all right. Next person?
Brian Frost stated, Brian Frost. I’m trying to purchase the home.
Vice President Thompson asked, and sir you are?
George Leisure stated, George Leisure with Zook Realty I represent the buyer on the purchase of the property.
Vice President Thompson asked, and the buyer again is?
George Leisure stated, is Brian Frost and Hildegard Frost.
Vice President Thompson stated, okay, thank you. All right, okay. Do you have anything you’d like to add other than what I read to the description?
George Leisure asked, to the description?
Vice President Thompson asked, do you have any other information you’d like for the Board?
George Leisure stated, we do have some plans that are available. Did I give you a copy of those pictures?
Director Weaver stated, not that I recall.
George Leisure stated, okay we do have a couple of plans here I guess you could pass those around if you wanted to.
Vice President Thompson asked, now before you do that how do you want to handle this? Normally what evidence is presented we keep. Do you have extra copies for your self?
George Leisure stated, I don’t.
Vice President Thompson stated, if not why don’t let us have one and you keep one how would that be?
George Leisure stated, that’d be fine.
Vice President asked, is that okay?
Director Weaver stated, why you’re looking at the papers I’ll just briefly remind you why they came back to this meeting. At last weeks meeting there was some concern that the legal description that we had advertised was not correct and there was some concerns on the survey. Mr. Leisure has gotten with Jim Milligan and the legal description was correct and you now have a corrected survey that you have this evening.
Attorney Altman asked, is that the one that says 6-27-2007?
Director Weaver stated, that is the right one, yes.
Charlie Mellon asked, is that the only thing we were questioning about?
Director Weaver stated, well both the survey and the legal description.
Attorney Altman stated, and whether it was advertised right, Charlie.
Charlie Mellon stated, okay.
Attorney Altman stated, because of this question about the real estate.
George Leisure stated, we have shown copies of the building plans and the corrected survey to the neighbors and they, to my knowledge, they are totally satisfied with the corrections that have been made.
Charlie Mellon asked, do you have anything Diann from any neighbors?
Director Weaver stated, no, I do not.
Vice President Thompson stated, okay.
Attorney Altman stated, I’ve marked their plans that they’ve submitted as exhibit A of several stapled together exhibit.
Vice President Thompson asked, have you had a chance to look the survey over yourself? From the last time it meets your approval.
Director Weaver asked, the survey? Yes, actually Mr. Leisure got several surveys because this is the one that I finally agreed to.
Vice President Thompson stated, okay, that’s fine. That’s all right.
George Leisure stated, there was actually 6 errors on the first survey.
Karla Lubash stated, yes, there was a problem getting them all together.
Vice President Thompson stated, I’m sure. Anyone care to address the variance either for or against?
Charlie Mellon asked, do you want to see that?
Vice President Thompson stated, I’ve got one here Charlie, thanks. Anyone? Gerald Cartmell do you have any questions for the…
Gerald Cartmell asked, on the eaves is that part of it? Is that figured in the variance?
George Leisure stated, yes.
Dave Scott asked, so it’s going to be 4’ to the overhang?
Director Weaver stated, no.
Dave Scott stated, no, no.
George Leisure stated, it’d be 5 ½’ variance including the overhangs. So it would be, instead of being 8’ to the side of the property it would be 2 ½’, is that correct? I think so, to the overhang. So the house structure itself is farther than that but it’s with the overhang that makes it a 2 ½’ setback.
Brian Frost stated, and I might we can make the overhang whatever is suitable for the committee, if we need to shrink it a little bit. I’m doing the carpentry so…
Dave Scott asked, and it’s going to be basically on the same footprint in line with the old property?
George Leisure stated, yes, and the reason that we needed to have the variance was to come into compliance with the old footprint for the building.
Vice President Thompson asked, anything else Gerald? Dave Scott?
Dave Scott stated, no.
Vice President Thompson asked, Charlie Mellon?
Charlie Mellon stated, no.
Vice President Thompson asked, Jerry do you have anything else to add?
Attorney Altman stated, and what you’re saying is that nothing’s changed since the last meeting, basically?
George Leisure stated, except the survey is correct.
Attorney Altman stated, except the correcting of the survey. All right thank you.
Gerald Cartmell stated, that’s the whole plan right there. Make everybody happy.
Charlie Mellon asked, Jerry the overall height is all right? I didn’t see anything on the second story.
Director Weaver stated, I don’t know Charlie, I haven’t seen that information. Maximum height is 30’ to the peak.
Brian Frost stated, we won’t exceed that.
Vice President Thompson asked, were you going to enter that?
Charlie Mellon stated, we’d like to know now because after you get it built if it’s too high.
Brian Frost stated, I understand, we may have to take it apart. I think I’m going to go with a 5 pitch roof so that won’t exceed 30’
Vice President Thompson stated, okay. Any other discussion? The Board ready to vote? Let’s vote.
The Board finds the following:
1. That the property is properly zoned L-1, Lake District
2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114.
3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit, and that the construction will be no further than the foot print of the existing home. New home will be connected to sewers.
4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.
5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.
6. That the request is for a 5 ½’ East side setback variance to add a first floor addition and to add a second story on Lot Number Two (2) in Conwell Park, as per plat of said Addition, recorded in Book Record No. 115, page 405 of the records of the Recorder of White County, Indiana; and,
Also, a parcel of land described as follows: Beginning at a point which is two thousand one hundred ninety-six (2196) feet West; thence five hundred ninety-one (591) feet North and fifty (50) feet East of the Southeast corner of the Southwest Quarter (1/4) of the Northeast Quarter (1/4) of Section Nine (9), Township Twenty-seven (27) North, Range Three (3) West, in Liberty Township, White County, Indiana. This point so located being the beginning point of the land to be conveyed; thence North two (2) degrees thirty (30) minutes West fifteen (15) feet to a point of twenty (20) foot roadway; thence North sixty-eight (68) degrees and twenty (20) foot roadway; thence North sixty-eight and thirty (30) minutes East sixty-nine (69) feet along the South boundary line of a twenty (20) foot road in Conwell park; thence South twenty (20) degrees East fifty (50) feet to the North boundary line of a twenty (20) foot road; thence South sixty-six (66) degrees West thirty-four (34) feet to the point of beginning, but EXCEPTING from the above two tracts that part of Lot 2 in Conwell Park and part of the Southwest Quarter of Section 9, Township 27 North, Range 3 West in Liberty Township, White County, Indiana described by: Commencing at the Southwest corner of Lot 1 in said Conwell Park, which point is 2196.00 feet West and 591.00 feet North of the Southeast corner of the Southwest Quarter of the Northeast Quarter of the above said Section 9; thence North 79 degrees 37 minutes 45 seconds East 50.00 feet to the Southeast corner of said Lot 1 and the point of beginning; thence North 11 degrees 50 minutes West 39.73 feet; thence South 21 degrees 07 minutes 39 seconds East 77.60 feet; thence North 32 degrees 00 minutes West 34.00 feet to the point of beginning.
Also, three (3) feet of even width off of the entire West side of Lot Three (3) in Conwell Park Addition, Liberty Township, White County Indiana.
Also, that part of Lot 1 in Conwell Park in Liberty Township, White County, Indiana, described by:
Commencing at the Southwest corner of the above said lot 1, which point is 2196.00 feet West and 591.00 feet North from the Southeast corner of the Southwest Quarter of the Northeast Quarter of Section 9, Township 27 North, Range 3 West; thence North 79 degrees 37 minutes 45 seconds East 50.00 feet thence North 11 degrees 50 minutes 39.73 feet to the point of beginning, Thence North 21 degrees 07 minutes 30 seconds West 62.34 feet to the North line of the above said Lot 1; thence North 43 degrees 01 minutes East 12.53 feet to the Northeast corner of said Lot 1; thence South 11 degrees 50 minutes East 60.81 feet to the point of beginning.
COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located northeast of Monticello between C.R. 350 North and Lake Road 18 East at 5343 E. Wayside Court.
7. That the variance herein authorized and granted is not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make typical or recurrent the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said condition or situation of the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variance is based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variance under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.
The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 4 affirmative and 0 negative.
Attorney Altman stated, announcing the results on the balloting on petition #2624 we have 4 votes cast, 4 votes vote that the variance is hereby granted. You need to get a building permit before you proceed.
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#2629 Anita Wolf and Sue Hammett (Green); The property is located on Lot 2 in Camp Munsee Addition at 3818 N. Camp Munsee Court.
Violation: None
Request: They are requesting a 14’ rear setback variance and a 4’ East side setback variance and a 1’ West side setback variance to build an attached garage onto the existing house.
Vice President Thompson stated, could I have your name please.
David Wolf stated, I’m David Wolf, my wife is Anita Wolf she’s 75% owner of the property and my sister is Sue Green and she is 25% owner of the property.
Vice President Thompson stated, okay. Do you have anything else you’d like to present to the Board other than what I read?
David Wolf stated, no I just wish to reiterate the reason we’re doing this is we have a lake home and we have 2 bedrooms upstairs and since my go cart racing accident 5 and a half years ago I’ve had difficulty getting up there. We do have a chair lift to go up there but it’s becoming more and more difficult to do that and it is impossible if there’s an electrical outage because it runs on electricity. There is not battery back up. So what we’d like to do is take the existing garage and on the first floor and convert that to a master bedroom and then to make sure the house stays consistent we’d like to add a garage exactly the same size and the same shape as the present garage is right now onto the back of the house so it would be exactly identical to what it is now but the master bedroom would be the old garage. I’ve also included for your reference pictures of houses that are in the vicinity that and the measurements, I don’t think I need to go over that with you as you go down Camp Munsee Road, I didn’t do this but there are some other houses there even closer than that. So other than that that’s the reason we’re asking for the variance.
Vice President Thompson asked, Diann?
Director Weaver stated, well we do have some letters that go with this, actually I have 2 hardship letters from Mr. Wolf and then also a letter from Larry Cripe who is the secretary treasure from Camp Munsee division. I believe you have copies of all of those.
Charlie Mellon stated, yes, we got them. Pictures pretty well show the story.
David wolf stated, yes.
Charlie Mellon stated, yes.
Vice President Thompson asked, do you have both Jerry?
Attorney Altman stated, yes.
David Wolf stated, the only thing I can say is these measurements I made we’re my measurements not architectural measurements and if we do the same measurements that I did, it’s 12’ from the road when the garage would be evidently the structure joints are different so it would be 12’ as compared those feet there from our drawings.
Charlie Mellon stated, that’s in between some of the other ones. That one is 5 1/2.
David Wolf stated, yes.
Charlie Mellon stated, pretty close.
David Wolf stated, yes.
Attorney Altman stated, I guess the first thing I wanted to check and make sure that these are the footers that you were talking about.
David Wolf stated, yes, this is the one that is next to us and I measured from here and this is the other one that I measured from here and then there is another photo to, I believe you have. There should be 3.
Attorney Altman stated, I didn’t see the third.
David Wolf stated, it’s 5 ½.
Charlie Mellon stated, yes, we got that.
Director Weaver stated, the Board has all three.
Charlie Mellon stated, didn’t want to give him a short one.
David Wolf stated, yes, right. And if we use the same measurement our garage would be 12’, I know that yours, I don’t want to dispute that it’s the same measurements.
Attorney Altman stated, so we mark those footers #1, 2, and 3 exhibits and then we have letters that you’re talking about, I don’t think there is a date on the one so I will read the first one on the top detailed statement says 2001 I have been paralyzed from the waist down (T10) from a go kart racing accident. The only bedrooms to our home are located upstairs. I have a stairway lift but it is becoming more difficult for me to get upstairs and impossible in case of a power outage. I would like to convert the present garage to our first floor master bedroom. I would then like to place another garage adjacent to the bedroom (see surveyor drawing). This unfortunately will place the garage setback (7) and (8) feet from the Camp Munsee Road. I have included pictures of my neighbor and the distance their garages are from the Camp Munsee Road. Lot 1 Madden, 16’ from road, Lot 3 Roth, 18 ½’ from the road, Lot 4 Green 5 1/2’ feet from the road. Because of the above, I am asking for a variance from the normal (20) feet setback to (7)-(8) feet setback from the Camp Munsee Road (see surveyor’s plot plan). Thank you, David L. Wolf. The second letter I have from David L. Wolf I’ll read the body of it. It’s dated June 17th 2006. This letter represents the Hardship Letter that you said is required for the variances I am asking for. The date of the meeting that my variance request will be heard is 6/28/07. Please place this letter in my application #2629. Hardship Letter, I am requesting a 14’ rear setback variance and a 4’ east side and a 1’ west side variance to build a garage on to our existing home. Since 2001 I have been paralyzed from the waist down (T10) from a go kart racing accident. The only bedrooms in our home are located upstairs. I have a stairway lift but it is becoming more difficult for me to go upstairs and impossible in case of power outage. I would like to convert the present garage to a first floor master bedroom. I would then like to lace another garage adjacent to the bedroom. See surveyor drawing. This would place the garage at a 14’ rear variance. The 4’ east side and 1’ west side variances are also being asked for but they already are in existence with the present garage. I am including pictures of my neighbors and the distance their garages are from the Camp Munsee Road. Again, Lot 1 Madden, 16’ from the road, lot 3 Roth, 181/2’ from the road, Lot 4 Green, 5 ½’ from the road. Note these are my measurements not surveyor measurements. Because of the above I am asking for the 3 variances 2 of which already exist. Thank you for your consideration. Sincerely, David L. Wolf. And then we received a letter that is from the Camp Munsee property owners Association and I’ll read the body. It is dated June the 25, 2007. I’m responding to your recent notice of a request for a variance for 3818 North Camp Munsee Court. While we have not had a meeting, I did have the occasion to talk to a couple of our more vocal members. I believe I speak for the group when I say we have no objection to the proposed variance. As a group, we encourage our members to make improvements. The only restriction that I believe would apply in this instance is the requirement of no more than one cottage and one garage on the property. Since the proposed improvement results in one structure, I see nothing to object to. Thank you for your consideration. Sincerely yours, Larry R. Frye, Secretary-Treasurer.
David Wolf stated, I have also brought with me, if you would like to see the proposed architectural drawings of the new additions if that would be something you would be interested in.
Attorney Altman stated, that’s your call.
David Wolf stated, I think I presented enough that to why I’m doing that at least.
Vice President Thompson asked, anyone here care to address the variance either in favor or not? Charlie Mellon do you have any questions for Mr. Wolf?
Charlie Mellon stated, no I think he’s done a pretty good job of presenting it.
Vice President Thompson asked, so you have nothing else?
Charlie Mellon state, no.
Vice President Thompson stated, okay. Dave Scott?
Dave Scott asked, does a physical handicap constitute a handicap as far as our ordinance goes?
Attorney Altman stated, no.
Dave Scott stated, well under normal circumstances I’ve been out to the property and although some of the other properties are out close to the road, under normal circumstances there’s probably no way I would approve that variance but I feel like a jerk turning him down so I’m not going to.
Gerald Cartmell stated, we both looked at it and…
Dave Scott stated, and you can put that on the record.
Vice President Thompson stated, it’s on.
Gerald Cartmell stated, if he wasn’t handicapped I would say there’s no way because it’s way too close. He doesn’t have anywhere to park.
Dave Scott stated, he can’t, traffic can’t get in and out.
Gerald Cartmell stated, I’m very sorry your handicapped and all but, I agree with Dave.
Vice President Thompson asked, Jerry do you have anything?
Attorney Altman stated, no.
Vice President Thompson stated, any other discussion?
Director Weaver stated, I have a question. Will you still have some parking other than what will be in the garage?
David Wolf stated, yes, there is a, I don’t know if it is on the drawing but one side of the garage there is a one car place you can park your car, yes.
Director Weaver stated, okay.
Vice President Thompson stated, okay. Nothing else? The Board ready to vote?
Dave Scott asked, is that the west side?
Gerald Cartmell stated, evidently.
David Wolf stated, it’s the side Maddens, that side, probably it would be the west side, yes.
Gerald Cartmell stated, yes because you’ve only got 6’ on the other side.
David Wolf stated, yes.
Director Weaver stated, I think it is the west side.
The Board finds the following:
1. That the property is properly zoned L-1, Lake District
2. That the lot is a proper subdivision of land as provided by the White County Subdivision Ordinance. This was done before Area Plan.
3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit. The home will be similar to the other homes in the neighborhood and is for a handicapped person and will be connected to sewers.
4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.
5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.
6. That the request is for 14’ rear setback variance and a 4’ East side and a 1’ West side setback variances to build an addition on the existing home on Lot Number Two (2) in Camp Munsee Addition in Liberty Township, White County, Indiana.
COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located North of Monticello, South of C.R. 400 N. at 3818 N. Camp Munsee Court.
7. That the variances herein authorized and granted are not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make reasonable practicable the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variances are based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variances under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.
The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 4 affirmative and 0 negative.
Attorney Altman stated, announcing the results of the balloting on BZA #2629 again I have 4 votes cast and the 4 votes go to the variance is hereby granted. You need to get a building permit before you proceed.
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#2630 Eric D. Martin; The property is located on 3.25 acres, Out W NW 31-25-3, East of Brookston and South of State Road 18 at 12009 S. 300 E.
Violation: None
Request: He is requesting a 5’ height variance to build a pole building.
Vice President Thompson asked, sir you are?
Robert Hutter stated, I am Robert Hutter, I’m ARP Construction in Monticello.
Vice President Thompson asked, and?
Eric Martin stated, I’m Eric Martin, the home owner.
Vice President Thompson stated, okay, all right. Anything else you’d like to present sir?
Robert Hutter stated, no not really, the letter kind of explains it all. He’s got the antique tractors. He’s been working hard to save up enough money to be able to put the tractors away so they don’t get deteriorated and not we’ve got that opportunity, so.
Director Weaver stated, Mr. Hutter did give our attorney a letter of hardship prior to the meeting.
Attorney Altman asked, has the Board received a copy of that?
Director Weaver stated, no, they have not.
Attorney Altman stated, okay. It’s basically a paragraph typed on the top of page it says, we’re requesting this variance for height. The homeowner has antique tractors that require a 12’ clearance. We have made the sidewalls 14’ to install 14’ sliders and allow for that clearance. This barn is being used for storage of these tractors. The peak height of the roof will be 22’ tall with 4-12 pitch trusses. We did also receive a letter dated June 22, 2004 received the 25th of June it is from Pence Revington, neighbor on the back side of the property. I received the notice of the variance meeting. I won’t be able to attend. I’ve asked other neighbors to think about whether this building plan will pose any problems. I don’t have specific concerns about the height of the building. My main concerns are about proximity to the lot lines due to the large amount of collected metal and other (stuff) that Eric has on the property. My concern is that the back of the building might be used to hide junk and I would see that from my property. If I can’t see collected junk, I’m OK. If I can see it, I’m not OK. And especially if it starts falling into the ravine, then I have a problem. If the building provides a place to store the piles, that would be a good thing. Thanks for the opportunity to share my opinion. Pence Revington and it appears to be signature and phone number on there.
Robert Hutter stated, and we also have another neighbor here as well that I think would like to speak to you.
Vice President Thompson stated, okay, that would be fine.
Bill Bell stated, my name is Bill Bell, I represent the Wildcat Valley Gun Club. We own the 40 acres across the road from where Eric’s building the building and I think the building would be a big improvement to the neighborhood to put his tractors and stuff in and get them from outside. I think that would help clear up this letter too. I go by there 3 or 4 times a week so I think it would be a great asset.
Vice President Thompson stated, okay, I appreciate that.
Robert Garvin stated, my name is Robert Garvin and I’m current president of the Gun Club. I feel the same way Mr. Bell does. He has been a good neighbor to us and I think this will help the area. Thank you.
Vice President Thompson stated, okay, thank you. Jerry do you have anything?
Attorney Altman stated, no, I don’t have.
Vice President Thompson stated, okay. Dave Scott do you have any questions or comments?
Dave Scott stated, no I just question why in an ag area there is a 17’ height requirement. I mean it seems like most farm buildings and things like that are higher than that, aren’t they?
Robert Hutter stated, we presented the same thing but when we called down to area plan they said that unless it was used for hay it had to have a variance. We presumed when we first started that we would be able to put it under an ag building especially since it was housing tractors but they said unless it was used for agriculture use and we could prove that then we had to come in to this variance to that.
Dave Scott asked, so if it’s an ag building it doesn’t need a variance?
Director Weaver stated, that’s correct an agriculture building has to be on 3 acres to be considered an agriculture building and it does not have to meet the 17’ requirements.
Gerald Cartmell asked, he doesn’t have 3 acres?
Robert Hutter stated, okay, he’s got a little over 3 acres.
Dave Scott stated, he’s got 3.25.
Gerald Cartmell stated, I guess I’d better read my homework hadn’t I. 3.2..
Robert Hutter stated, this was the easiest way for us to go about doing it after that.
Dave Scott stated, well it’s kind of asking… in this situation I don’t see the hardship but I don’t understand why out in the ag area that he needs a variance but I don’t know, I guess..
Attorney Altman stated, we regulate the use Dave and if it’s not used for agriculture and in this case it really isn’t because it’s just storing things even if they happen to be just tractors. If they were using it as farm that would be different.
Dave Scott asked, so what would be a handicap then for this particular variance?
Attorney Altman stated, some topographic problem that makes it so that would be the unusual verses the neighbors. I’m not sure beyond that I can say what would be…
Vice President Thompson asked, is the new ordinance, the new book that’s coming out is it going to have something similar to this, not that we’ve got it memorized.
Attorney Altman stated, yes.
Vice President Thompson asked, will it really?
Attorney Altman stated, now as far as the height I don’t know for sure.
Dave Scott asked, now is this a single story building?
Robert Hutter stated, yes it is, yes. Just an open pole building. One of the tractors has a lift on it and that’s where it can’t fit in underneath a 12’ door.
Dave Scott stated, yes, I don’t have anything else, I’m just mumbling.
Vice President Thompson stated, okay, Gerald?
Gerald Cartmell asked, what kind of tractor you talking about here?
Robert Hutter asked, what year? What kind of tractor is that Eric?
Eric Martin stated, it’s an old Ford, it’s got the mounted forklift on the back of it.
Gerald Cartmell stated, I guess I don’t have anything.
Vice President Thompson asked, Charlie?
Charlie Mellon stated, no.
Vice President Thompson stated, if there’s nothing else then we’re ready to vote.
The Board finds the following:
1. That the property is properly zoned A-1, Agricultural.
2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114.
3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit, to store inside applicants hobby items and because of topography the height is required here.
4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.
5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.
6. That the request is for a 5’ height variance for a pole building on That part of the Southwest Quarter of the Southwest Quarter of Section 30 and the Northwest Quarter of the Northwest Quarter of Section 31 all in Township 25 North, Range 3 West in Prairie Township, White County, Indiana described by:
Beginning at the Southeast corner of Section 25, Township 25 North, Range 4 West; thence North 87 degrees 33 minutes East 189.06 feet; thence South 13 degrees 03 minutes East 270.99 feet; thence South 12 degrees 06 minutes West211-11 feet; thence South 23 degrees 43 minutes West 200.22 feet; thence South 47 degrees 37 minutes West 169.95 feet to the West line of the above said Section 31; thence North 760.0 feet to the point of beginning.
The above described parcel of land contains 3.25 Acres, more or less.
COMMON DESCRIPTION: Property is located East of Brookston and South of State Road 18 at 12009 S. 300 E.
7. That the variance herein authorized and granted is not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make typical or recurrent the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said condition or situation of the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variance is based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variance under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.
The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 4 affirmative and 0 negative.
Attorney Altman stated, okay, announcing the results of the balloting of BZA #2630, 4 votes cast again 4 votes vote that the variance is hereby granted. You need to get your building permit before you proceed.
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#2631 Harold Myers; The property is located on 7.149 acres, Out NE Frax 21-27-3 and 7.384 acres, NW NW 22-27-3 Northeast of Monticello at 1995 N. East Shafer Drive.
Violation: None
Request: He is requesting a Special Exception to bring the existing campground (Norway Campground) into compliance with the Zoning Ordinance to make improvements and a 42' front setback variance to place cabins on the property.
Vice President Thompson asked, and sir you are?
Harold Myers stated, Harold Myers.
Vice President Thompson stated, you are Mr. Myers, okay, all right.
Director Weaver stated, I’d like to give you a little background before we get started on this. Mr. Myers came in and applied for building permits and we realized at that time that he was not properly zoned for a campground so he has gone through the rezoning process and as part of that process he did do a written commitment because he had some neighbors at that meeting concerned about him having livestock on his property. So you have a copy of his commitment from that rezoning that stated that there will be no livestock or other domesticated animals on the premises. I also asked Mr. Myers, as part of his Special Exception, not necessarily to have the surveyor draw a layout of the camp but to have him draw that up so you also have a layout of the property along with 2 surveys of the property instead of one because of the size of the property Mr. Milligan could not get all on one survey so you have 2 surveys to look at.
Vice President Thompson stated, all right. We have a commitment. Jerry do you want to, for the record, we have another document here don’t here?
Attorney Altman stated, I’ve got it here but I haven’t seen it.
Director Weaver stated, no that was with the last one.
Vice President Thompson stated, ok just make mention, ok it’s not necessary.
Attorney Altman stated, okay.
Vice President Thompson stated, I didn’t know if it had been changed any since the last one or not. Okay. Anyone here care to address the variance for or against? Jerry do you have anything?
Attorney Altman stated, yes talk about the creek that goes through your property Mr. Myers and how it interferes with the use of the whole property that you show on your surveys. There’s a creek that goes through there.
Harold Myers stated, yes Pike Creek.
Attorney Altman asked, and where does it go through your property?
Harold Myers stated, basically right through the center of both of these layouts, you got the same thing I got.
Director Weaver asked, Jerry do you have them? I have extras here if you don’t.
Attorney Altman asked, is that it? Okay, and is that set up on your exhibit that you submitted to the Board, how Pike creek goes through your property?
Harold Myers stated, just on the map there, yes.
Attorney Altman asked, and does that restrict the use of your property, limit it in other ways? I mean is the required proposed use of your property?
Harold Myers stated, not that I’m aware of. Not as far as the Special Exception and the variance.
Vice President Thompson asked, Gerald do you have something for Mr. Myers.
Gerald Cartmell stated, I’m trying to find the elevation of this thing. I’m sure it must be on here but I’m not seeing it. Does anybody see it?
Director Weaver asked, the elevation?
Gerald Cartmell stated, that’s something we need to think about here.
Director Weaver stated, I’m not sure that is it on this survey.
Gerald Cartmell asked, why wouldn’t it be?
Charlie Mellon asked, you mean of the creek?
Gerald Cartmell stated, the surveyor should put that on there. Pike Creek’s a lot of water.
I’m thinking about what happens when you get a lot of water. I never thought about it until we were looking here.
Director Weaver stated, if our concern is with floodway or floodplain, our C-1 zoning which is a conservation district which is where our flood areas are, that’s what that area is set up for it allows for campgrounds to be in it so I don’t know if…
Gerald Cartmell stated, so they just go on down the river.
Director Weaver stated, I don’t know if a floodway is a concern for a campground. I guess that’s for you guys to decide and I don’t know that this is in a floodway I can go get the flood maps if you want to look at. I’d more than glad to do that.
Gerald Cartmell asked, do you suppose we ought to?
Vice President Thompson asked, I don’t know if it hurts anything but, if it was in question would we have a correspondence from someone?
Director Weaver stated, not unless he requested one.
Vice President Thompson stated, okay.
Director Weaver stated, I mean, I didn’t recommend for him to request one.
Vice President Thompson stated, all right. That’s up to the Board.
Director Weaver stated, I didn’t even give the flood area a thought but like I said I’d be more than glad to go over and get the flood map and look at it.
Gerald Cartmell stated, I don’t know what everybody thinks, I don’t care, just something I was thinking about.
Dave Scott asked, but a campground can be in the flood fringe or a flood area?
Director Weaver stated, it can be in the C-1 district which does allow for flood districts.
Gerald Cartmell asked, even proposed cabins?
Director Weaver stated, well, I didn’t say that, I just said a campground.
Gerald Cartmell stated, maybe you’d better go get that thing.
Director Weaver stated, okay, sure.
Gerald Cartmell stated, I hate to do that but I don’t want to get somebody in a mess here and then come back and say oh my God, we’re in a mess.
Vice President Thompson stated, that’s fine.
Director Weaver stated, definition of a C-1.
Dave Scott asked, aren’t we addressing the Special Exception first?
Vice President Thompson stated, yes we are.
Attorney Altman stated, okay, a conservation district C-1 conservation district are those areas deemed to have significant ecological characteristics such as wildlife habitat or being prone to flooding such as areas within a flood plain and within which limited agriculture and recreational development is allowed, so however this is zoned A-1 it, to make Diann’s point I want to read what the ordinance said about conservation district.
Dave Scott stated, it’s a campground we couldn’t vote against it even if it were in a flood plain. Is that right interpretation? It’s kind of a mute point if that’s…
Gerald Cartmell stated, pretty grey, but he’s proposing some cabins too..
Attorney Altman stated, I think it’s still a valid consideration, I think it would be a valid consideration even in a C-1 area if it were that. How many of the units on this map are there now?
Harold Myers stated, a lot of the units that’s there, seasonal campers and RV’s that are parked there. There are 89 of those.
Attorney Altman stated, and these are the ones that you put on here. I noticed there’s 90 here, number 90.
Harold Myers stated, 90, we don’t use the 90th spot because it’s…
Attorney Altman stated, okay.
Director Weaver stated, no, his property is not in a flood area.
Attorney Altman stated, okay, okay.
Director Weaver stated, and the map if anyone would like to look at it.
Gerald Cartmell asked, it’s not in a flood area? What’s the elevation of it?
Director Weaver stated, I don’t have an elevation on these maps. It just tells me yes or no it’s in the flood area.
Vice President Thompson stated, he wants to know the elevation Diann.
Gerald Cartmell stated, got some people in trouble in elevation before that’s…
Attorney Altman stated, yes, I agree.
Director Weaver stated, its right here and if it was in a flood area it would be dotted like that.
Gerald Cartmell stated, it means that’s water it probably is a flood area then. Okay.
Director Weaver stated, okay.
Vice President Thompson stated, thank you.
Gerald Cartmell stated, so that proved absolutely nothing.
Vice President Thompson asked, did I open this up to the rest, didn’t I?
Attorney Altman stated, oh yes.
Vice President Thompson stated, I didn’t okay, I better do it then.
Attorney Altman stated, oh yes you did ask if the people wanted…
Vice President Thompson stated, I might of but anyway we can do it again. Anyone care to address the variance, Special Exception, excuse me. Charlie do you have anything for Mr. Myers?
Charlie Mellon stated, no, not really but Gerald’s accustom to that country too and I think it was 2 or 3 years ago when there was right afternoon we got maybe a 4 or 5 inch rain and I knew a couple that lived in there and that creed, it was where he had a walkway over the creek and that water was just a boiling through there but it wasn’t out of it’s banks or anything. It just lacked, I would say 4 to 6 inches of going up to the floor of that walkway and I don’t know of anybody has ever said that that Pike Creek through there has over flooded and caused any trouble in those cottages.
Gerald Cartmell stated, I don’t know of any either.
Charlie Mellon stated, no, but where he’s talking about putting those other ones that’s not close to the creek, no it’s up on the high ground.
Harold Myers, no, right, right.
Charlie Mellon stated, yes, that’s about all I know about it.
Vice President Thompson asked, Dave Scott you have anything for Mr. Myers?
Dave Scott stated, no.
Vice President Thompson stated, Gerald back to you, you have anything else?
Attorney Altman stated, now remember the Special Exception is what you’re voting on and that is basically that the use of its similar enough and doesn’t have harm to the neighbors and the community around it as it’s set out on the ballot. This isn’t something he has to prove a hardship on.
Charlie Mellon asked, did you give us 2 ballots?
Attorney Altman stated, yes I did.
Charlie Mellon asked, well which one is which?
Attorney Altman stated the one pager is a Special Exception.
Charlie Mellon asked, okay that’s the one we vote on now?
Attorney Altman stated, yes, right now.
Charlie Mellon stated, okay.
Director Weaver asked, you brought your sign back, correct?
Harold Myers stated, yes.
The Board finds the following:
1. That the property is properly zoned A-1, Agricultural.
2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114.
3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.
4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.
5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.
6. That the request is for a Special Exception to bring the existing campground (Norway Campground) into compliance on All that part of the Northeast Quarter (1/4) of the Northeast Quarter (1/4) of Section Twenty-one (21), Township Twenty-seven (27) North, Range Three (3) West that lies East and North of the right-of-way lines of the public highway now designated as F.A.S. Routes S 1045 and S 1345 in Union Township, White County, Indiana, and more fully described as follows: Beginning at an iron pin set at the Northeast Corner of the Northeast Quarter (1/4) of the Northeast Quarter (1/4) of said Section 21, thence South on degree thirteen minutes forty-four seconds West (S 1° 13’ 44” W) one thousand three hundred one and eighty-one hundredths (1301.81) feet, along the section line between Sections Twenty-one (21) and Twenty-two (22), Township Twenty-seven (27) North, Range Three (3) West to the North right-of-way line of said F.A.S Route Number S 1345; thence following said right-of-way line North ninety degrees West (N 90° W) two hundred fifty-nine (259.00) feet; thence North fifty-five degrees five minutes West (N 55° 05’ W) eighty-six and five hundredths (86.05) feet; thence North sixteen degrees West (N 16° W) one hundred seventy-seven and seven hundredths (177.07) feet; thence North forty degrees thirty-four minutes West (N 40° 34’ W) one hundred seventy-nine and three hundredths (179.03) feet to a point on the east right-of-way line of F.A.S. Route S 1045; thence along said right-of-way line north thirteen degrees fifty-five minutes West (N 13° 55’ W) three hundred eighty-nine and thirty-one hundredths (389.31) feet; thence North zero degrees nineteen minutes West (N 0° 19’ W) two hundred seventy-three and fifty-nine hundredths (273.59) feet; thence North thirty-seven degrees nine minutes West (N 37° 09’ W) two hundred fifty-eight and ten hundredths (258.10) feet; thence North zero degrees seven minutes West (N 0° 7’ W) one hundred nineteen and forty-two hundredths (119.42) feet to a point on the North line of the Northeast Quarter (1/4) of the Northeast Quarter of said section twenty-one (21); thence south eighty-eight degrees forty-four minutes sixteen seconds East (S 88° 44’ 16” E) along said Section line and the centerline of a public highway seven hundred seventy-four and twenty hundredths (774.20) feet to the place of beginning containing sixteen and eighty-four hundredths (16.84) acres, more or less, all in the Northeast Quarter (1/4) of the Northeast Quarter (1/4) of Section Twenty-one (21), Township Twenty-seven (27) North, Range Three (3) West in Union Township, White County, Indiana.
EXCEPT Commencing at the Northeast corner of the Northeast Quarter of the Northeast Quarter of Section 21, Township 27 North, Range 3 West; thence South 01 degrees 13 minutes 44 seconds West 1301.81 feet to the property line; thence following existing property line West 259.00 feet; thence North 55 degrees 05 minutes West 86.05 feet; thence North 16 degrees West 177.07 feet; thence North 40 degrees 34 minutes West 179.03 feet; thence North 13 degrees 55 minutes West 389.31 feet; thence North 0 degrees 19 minutes West 273.59 feet; thence North 37 degrees 09 minutes West 129.35 feet to the center line of Pike Creek and the point of beginning; thence following existing property line North 37 degrees 09 minutes west 128.75 feet; thence North 0 degrees 07 minutes west 119.42 feet to a point on north line of Northeast Quarter of said Section 21; thence South 88 degrees 44 minutes 16 seconds East 7.58 feet to a point on proposed right-of-way line; thence South 03 degrees 02 minutes East 91.15 feet; thence South 10 degrees 10 minutes East 47.37 feet; thence South 33 degrees 44 minutes East 64.71 feet; then South 36 degrees 01 minutes East 36.76 feet to the point of beginning, containing 0.038 acres, more or less. ALSO EXCEPT Commencing at the Northeast corner of the Northeast Quarter of the Northeast Quarter of Section 21, Township 27 North, Range 3 West; thence South 01 degree 13 minutes 44 seconds West 1301.81 feet to property line and the point of beginning; thence following the existing property line West 259.00 feet; thence North 55 degrees 05 minutes West 86.05 feet; thence North 16 degrees West 177.07 feet; thence North 40 degrees 34 minutes West 179.03 feet; thence North 13 degrees 55 minutes West 389.31 feet; thence North 0 degrees 19 minutes West 140.48 feet to a point on the proposed right-of-way line; thence following said right-of-way line South 15 degrees 22 minutes East 100.23 feet; thence South 23 degrees 32 minutes East 200.56 feet; thence South 19 degrees 15 minutes East 100.00 feet; thence South 16 degrees 50 minutes East 118.73 feet; thence South 09 degrees 47 minutes East 121.65 feet; thence South 86 degrees 58 minutes East 65.92 feet; thence South 12 degrees 34 minutes East 94.44 feet; thence South 22 degrees 15 minutes East 76.69 feet; thence South 47 degrees 30 minutes East 72.70 feet; thence South 72 degrees 43 minutes East 82.73 feet; thence South 84 degrees 09 minutes East 147.27 feet; thence South 10.00 feet to the place of beginning, containing 1.343 acres more or less. ALSO EXCEPT Commencing at the Northeast corner of the above said Section 21; thence South 01 degrees 13 minutes 44 seconds West along the Section line 1291.81 feet; thence North 84 degrees 09 minutes West 50.16 feet to the point of beginning; thence North 84 degrees 09 minutes West 97.11 feet; thence North 72 degrees 43 minutes West 82.73 feet; thence North 47 degrees 30 minutes West 72.70 feet; thence North 22 degrees 15 minutes West 76.69 feet; thence North 12 degrees 34 minutes West 46.50 feet; thence East 272.64 feet; thence South 01 degrees 13 minutes 44 seconds West 200 feet to the point of beginning, containing 1.00 acres, more or less. ALSO EXCEPT Commencing at the Northeast corner of the above said Section 21; thence South 01 degrees 13 minutes 44 seconds West 513.00 feet to the point of beginning; thence South 01 degrees 13 minutes 44 seconds West 778.81 feet; thence North 84 degrees 09 minutes West 50.16 feet; thence North 01 degrees 13 minutes 44 seconds East 200.00 feet; thence West 272.64 feet; thence North 12 degrees 34 minutes West 47.94 feet; thence North 86 degrees 58 minutes West 65.92 feet; thence North 09 degrees 47 minutes West 121.65 feet; thence North 19 degrees 15 minutes West 100.00 feet; thence North 23 degrees 32 minutes West 200.56 feet; thence North 15 degrees 22 minutes West 100.23 feet; thence North 00 degrees 19 minutes west 54.81 feet; thence South 76 degrees 59 minutes 48 seconds East 622.14 feet to the point of beginning, containing 7.31 acres, more or less, known as Eaglehoff’s Estates Subdivision.
ALSO, That part of the Northwest Quarter of the Northwest Quarter of Section 22, Township 27 North, Range 3 West, in Union Township, White County, Indiana, described by: Beginning at the Northwest corner of the above said Section 22; Thence East along the section line 960.71 feet; Thence South 334.11 feet to the centerline of Pike Creek and the North line of Lot 27 in Hallsdale Third Addition; Thence South 73 degrees 35 minutes 40 seconds West 10.25 feet to the Northwest corner of said Lot 27; Thence following the meanderings of the centerline of Pike Creek to the section line; thence North 00 degrees 41 minutes East 333.00 feet to the point of beginning, containing 7.84 acres, more or less.
7. (1) The special land use shall be and is designed, constructed, operated and maintained in a manner harmonious with the character of adjacent property and the surrounding area.
(2) The special land use shall not and does not inappropriately change the essential character of the surrounding area.
(3) The special land use shall not and does not interfere with the general enjoyment of adjacent property.
(4) The special land use shall and does represent an improvement to the use or character of the property under consideration and the surrounding area in general, yet also be in keeping with the natural environment of the site.
(5) The special land use shall not be and is not hazardous to the adjacent property, or involve uses, activities, materials or equipment which will be detrimental to the health, safety, or welfare of persons or property through the excessive production of traffic, noise, smoke, odor, fumes, or glare and the creek does not flood out of its banks in this area per facts presented.
(6) The special land use shall and is be adequately served by essential public facilities and services, or it shall be demonstrated that the person responsible for the proposed special land use shall be able to continually provide adequately for the services and facilities deemed essential to the special use under consideration.
(7) The special land use shall not and does not place demands on public services and facilities in excess of available capacity.
(8) The special land use shall be and is consistent with the intent and purpose of this Ordinance, and the objectives of any currently adopted White County Development Plan.
The special exception was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 4 affirmative and 0 negative.
Attorney Altman stated, BZA #2631 vote on the Special Exception under that number we have 4 votes cast 4 votes vote that the Special exception is granted. Now we’re ready for the variance. Vote or information?
Vice President Thompson asked, yes, any other discussion? We’re dealing with the variance so…
Gerald Cartmell stated, I think we went out and looked at that didn’t we?
Dave Scott stated, um hum.
Harold Myers stated, you stopped and talked to me the other day, yes.
Dave Scott stated, we had problems with one cottage there being, we didn’t wheel that off and I wish we had of. What is the setback towards the road, is that the front or the back on this.
Harold Myers stated, that’s the back of it.
Dave Scott stated, it’s the back.
Harold Myers stated, they told me the other day if we could bring it up to the 26’ mark then…
Dave Scott asked, the rear has to be 5’?
Charlie Mellon asked, will those be back farther than the store?
Harold Myers stated, yes there behind the store.
Charlie Mellon stated, yes that’s what I thought.
Dave Scott stated, evidently the road side is the front on this, is that correct?
Director Weaver stated, yes it is.
Dave Scott stated, okay. So he needs to be 50’ off the road to be without a variance.
Director Weaver stated, 60’.
Dave Scott stated, 60. Is there any way to move them back 60’ and get what you need?
Harold Myers stated, the 2 I’d say definite. The one in the middle might be a problem. I just went back the other day when you had stopped in and said if we could get it back to 26’ that’s not a problem there.
Dave Scott stated, I’m trying to figure out what a hardship would be for a campground cabin. If he was 50’ he’d be way over here getting out in his road is he.
Gerald Cartmell stated, I don’t think so. How far is it to the road through there, your driveway through the middle. We should have measured that thing off.
Harold Myers stated, I don’t have it on here. I’ve got it on one back at the store.
Dave Scott asked, and the rear side, would that then are those lots out there or is that one big lot or where do you measure the rear setback from?
Director Weaver stated, it would either be to the South or to the East because the North and the West are both fronts.
Gerald Cartmell stated, side’s the West, that’s towards the dam.
Dave Scott asked, these aren’t individual lots are they Diann?
Director Weaver stated, no it’s one, well it’s actually 2 tracts.
Dave Scott stated, okay.
Attorney Altman stated, well actually where he proposing to put these on is all on one tract.
Harold Myers stated, yes it’s on, I guess it would be the north tract.
Director Weaver well that’s the way the survey shows it.
Dave Scott stated, I wish we would have measured the thing out to see if he had room.
Vice President Thompson asked, Charlie do you have anything while there discussing a little side issue there. Do you have anything for Mr. Myers?
Charlie Mellon stated, no not really it looks to me like he’s got plenty of room out there but they’re going to be back behind the, farther back from the store on there the store will be the closest to the road and the area of those would be in behind the store. Even though it has got more area behind I think where you’re proposing to put them really. You could even move them back a little.
Harold Myers stated, right.
Charlie Mellon stated, if Dave wanted to get more frontage off.
Harold Myers stated, well the way the road is in the campground kind of curves around so if we had to we could push them back and closer to the campground road.
Charlie Mellon stated, as it comes past the store.
Harold Myers stated, right.
Charlie Mellon stated, it goes down towards the bridge. All right with me, Jerry.
Vice President Thompson stated, okay.
Gerald Cartmell stated, we’d kind of like to go out there and measure that, see how far back we can go without causing any real problems. I mean I don’t see a hardship, really. We were out there and told him if he could move this one back but then thinking about it and get to looking at it and think oh no. I’m not against it but…
Dave Scott stated, just like to keep it off the road as much as we possibly could.
Harold Myers stated, right, right.
Gerald Cartmell stated, 10 years from now we’ll come back and well we need 20’ from you or something like that and then we’re in trouble. I’m not saying it’s going to happen but you just never know.
Charlie Mellon stated, you could agree to move them back some, really.
Dave Scott stated, but we don’t know how far.
Charlie Mellon stated, I know he could say and then he could sign it.
Gerald Cartmell stated, you don’t know how far that road is away.
Attorney Altman asked, is that a motion?
Dave Scott asked, could we table it until the next meeting?
Gerald Cartmell stated, yes.
Dave Scott stated, we’d like a motion to table it until the next meeting, so we could go measure.
Vice President Thompson stated, we have a motion to table the variance 2631 and that would be July…
Director Weaver stated, 26th.
Vice President Thompson asked, 21st did you say. 26th, okay. I knew it was late.
Director Weaver stated, let me look, I have that here.
Gerald Cartmell stated, I hate to hold you up like that.
Charlie Mellon stated, it’s after the fair.
Director Weaver stated, it is later than normal, yes.
Vice President Thompson stated, yes, it’s after the fair.
Director Weaver stated, it is July 26th.
Vice President Thompson stated, all right.
Dave Scott stated, and then in the mean time if you could measure that off and see what you feel the least you could live with as far as keeping it off of that road we’d appreciate it, that will give us something to go by.
Vice President Thompson stated, okay. We have a motion do I hear a second?
A Board member seconded.
Vice President stated, we move to second all in favor signify by saying aye.
Board members said aye.
Vice President Thompson stated, all opposed. Okay the 26th. Are you sure about that?
Director Weaver stated, yes I checked.
Vice President Thompson stated, of July.
Harold Myers stated okay, thank you.
****
#2632 Douglas Ray & Shirley Kay Keesling; The property is located on Lot 24, in Stahl Subdivision, North of Monticello at 5869 N. Stahl Road.
Violation: They attached a detached garage without a permit and it isn’t meeting the required setbacks for an attached garage.
Request: They are requesting a 1’ South side setback variance and a 14’ rear setback variance to bring the existing home into compliance.
Vice President Thompson asked, and sir you are?
Doug Keesling stated, I’m Doug Keesling.
Vice President Thompson stated, okay.
Attorney Altman stated, before he begins I would like to disclose that I’m related to one of the party’s of this and according to recluse myself in this situation.
Vice President Thompson stated, all right. Thank you. Go ahead Doug you have the floor, do you have anything you’d like to present?
Doug Keesling stated, no I, 15 or so years ago I connected the house to the garage and the reason for it at the time was, still is, we get the west winds that faces west and they come right across farmer Rice’s fields there and they drifted the door shut on several occasions we’ve fallen on the porch and I connected the house to the garage to, just so we’d be able to get to it. I’m sorry.
Vice President Thompson stated, no that’s all right, do you have something else?
Doug Keesling stated, no, no.
Vice President Thompson asked, Diann do you have anything?
Director Weaver stated, no other than his letter of hardship and there is a copy of the letter that we sent to Mr. Keesling regarding the violation and a copy of his receipt where he paid the $500 fine and a copy of the permit that was issued at the time the garage was built. Do you want me to read this?
Vice President Thompson stated, yes it would probably be best if you did.
Director Weaver stated, per his letter of hardship it’s dated June 1st, 2007. To whom it may concern, the events of seventeen years ago are no easier to justify or validate today as then. Having just started working for myself I found that the work was not always there. The work done at my house was a way of filling in, waiting for the next job. Much of it was done on the spur of the moment. I’m sure the phrase “if I had it to do over I’d done it differently” has become a trite and worn phrase at these meetings. But in my case it has more pertinent significance in the nearly two decades since that contravention I have developed what I consider a great respect and rapport with the staff of both the Area Plan and Building departments. Had my years of experience and respect for the afore mentioned departments been in place those seventeen years ago I would no more executed the act of noncompliance then anything. Perhaps the only solace in this is the fact that I was younger and just learning the business. In the ensuing years I have complied with all guidelines and rules pertaining to the office of Area Plan. In light of this transgression of long ago I feel I have violated the trust and respect of not only Area Plan director Diann Weaver’s predecessor but also each and every member of the Area Plan board of seventeen years ago. The inexorable inevitableness of this moment has played out on countless occasions in my mind over the years, along with a deep sense of regret and remorse. Seventeen years is a long time to carry this self induced burden. To offer up apologies at this point in time seems futile and ineffective but none the less I tender them anyway. Let this submitted letter to the board and president be testimony of my feelings regarding this matter. Doug Keesling.
Vice President Thompson stated, okay. What’s the board’s wishes do we want to address the, need more paper want to address the variance first and then violation or the violation and then the variance?
Charlie Mellon asked, was the $500 paid for the violation already?
Director Weaver stated, $500 has been paid but the board still has the option of changing that amount if they so desire.
Charlie Mellon stated, oh yes. Well 17 years ago were those rules the same as they are now? I don’t think a lot of that was in effect 17 years ago. Didn’t a lot of them rules come in 93, 92 or 93?
Director Weaver stated, well it still wouldn’t have met the setback requirements for a detached garage, no.
Charlie Mellon stated, no not that, no.
Director Weaver stated, the permit was issued in 1994 Charlie.
Charlie Mellon stated, beg your pardon.
Director Weaver stated, the permit was issued in 1994.
Charlie Mellon stated, yes, okay, okay.
Dave Scott stated, when the garage was built it was built in compliance and then he made it out of compliance by hooking it to the house.
Director Weaver stated, I don’t know, I cannot testify on that because I don’t know.
Doug Keesling stated, Dave the, when I built the garage I built it in the same setback as the old garage now a lot of those old garages out there on Stahl Road were built back in the 50’s before we had the setback requirements so there all in violation, you know of current codes.
Dave Scott asked, now how did you come by find out it was a violation?
Doug Keesling asked, may I address that? I went into the office, Diann’s office to apply for a building permit to do some more remodeling to the house. I needed to add a porch on to the side and Diann had older pictures of the house before I had connected it and newer ones and her comment to me was Doug what the heck did you do and when did you do it and you know I told her so…that was how it all came about.
Vice President Thompson stated, so back to my original question. Address the variance or the violation?
Dave Scott asked, typically what do we do?
Vice President Thompson asked, normally the variance.
Dave Scott stated, the variance, okay let’s do that.
Vice President Thompson stated, okay just so everybody’s together, okay. All right, anyone care to address the variance for or against? Dave you got anything?
Dave Scott stated, just I’m still looking.
Vice President Thompson asked, Gerald do you have anything for..
Gerald Cartmell stated, give me a second.
Vice President Thompson stated, all right, Charlie.
Charlie Mellon stated, not really. I haven’t found out exactly what the $500 fine was paid for yet.
Director Weaver asked, what do you mean why it was paid for?
Charlie Mellon stated, he’s paid a $500 fine for something. Is that just because he put the house and the garage together?
Director Weaver stated, because he took, at that point he took the garage out of compliance with the ordinance.
Charlie Mellon stated, well that was done…
Director Weaver stated, he should have requested a variance prior to doing that.
Charlie Mellon stated, that was done before, that was done back 17 years ago though.
Director Weaver stated, I understand that but there was still an ordinance in place.
Doug Keesling stated, right, yes.
Charlie Mellon stated, it was done before…
Director Weaver stated, and it still would have required a variance. If he had come in Charlie to request to build that garage as it is as an attached garage he would not have been issued a permit because it did not meet the setback requirements. Does that help any?
Charlie Mellon stated, but he’s paid that fine now.
Director Weave stated, he did pay that fine after receiving my letter.
Charlie Mellon asked, what’s the variance for now it’s to close?
Director Weaver stated, the variance is to bring it into compliance because is not in compliance.
Charlie Mellon stated, okay, okay.
Director Weaver stated, basically it’s to clear the air, I guess.
Dave Scott asked, I mean what choice do we have?
Vice President Thompson stated, really you’re right. Do what Dave?
Dave Scott asked, what choice do we have?
Vice President Thompson stated, well not a lot, I don’t think.
Dave Scott stated, okay.
Director Weaver stated, Dave you’ve got the wrong staff report.
Dave Scott stated, no wonder.
Vice President Thompson stated, like I said we need more paper do we? No wonder you were puzzled Dave. Gerald do you have anything?
Gerald Cartmell stated, I’m still contemplating a little bit.
Vice President Thompson stated, okay.
Dave Scott stated, here we go, he’s 6’ off of Stahl Road.
Gerald Cartmell asked, so it was unattached and he attached it, that’s when he got in trouble, right?
Director Weaver stated, right, because it met the setback requirements unattached.
Gerald Cartmell stated, right, but when he attached it that put him out of compliance.
Director Weaver stated, that’s right.
Dave Scott stated, well we can either approve the variance or make him take it down so...
Gerald Cartmell asked, what is this?
Director Weaver stated, that is the porch that he came in and applied for when we discovered this violation.
Gerald Cartmell asked, so we’re not doing that now?
Director Weaver stated, no, it meets the setbacks. We did issue a permit for it and he has at least started construction
Gerald Cartmell stated, okay I’m finding no hardship there at all.
Director Weaver stated, yes, it meets the requirements.
Charlie Mellon stated, well he made a pretty good statement in his write up about why he done it and this and that and I think we ought to consider that really too. It’s not that big of deal.
Vice President Thompson stated, okay. Nothing else? Dave Scott anything else?
Dave Scott stated, no.
Vice President Thompson stated, no other discussion. You ready to vote?
Charlie Mellon stated, yes.
Vice President Thompson stated, let’s vote. Are you allowed to read the vote?
Attorney Altman stated, I think I can do that.
Vice President Thompson stated, just checking.
Attorney Altman stated, if it had anything to do with discretion I wouldn’t do it.
Vice President Thompson stated, all right.
The Board finds the following:
1. That the property is properly zoned L-1, Lake District
2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114.
3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit. The garage is similar to several in the vicinity.
4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.
5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.
6. That the request is for a 1’ South side setback variance and a 14’ rear setback variance to bring the existing home into compliance on Lot 24 in Stahl Subdivision in Monon Township, White County, Indiana
COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located South of Monon Road at 5869 N. Stahl Road.
7. That the variances herein authorized and granted are not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make reasonable practicable the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variances are based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variances under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.
The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 4 affirmative and 0 negative.
Attorney Altman stated, okay, announcing the results on the vote on petition #2632 4 votes cast 4 votes vote that the variance is hereby granted. You need to get a building permit that puts in compliance appropriately, okay? Thank you very much.
Vice President Thompson stated, okay now the violation.
Dave Scott stated, I’m going to make a motion and I’m going to explain to you why you put us in a position where you either have to take your building down or we either got to pass your variance and but we do appreciate you coming in and being up front with us and that kind of thing. I’m going to make a motion that there be an additional $1000 for the fine and building without the permit.
Gerald Cartmell stated, I’ll second that.
Charlie Mellon stated, I didn’t get that. I didn’t get that.
Vice President Thompson stated, there is a motion to assess a $1000 fine.
Director Weaver stated, an additional $1000 fine.
Vice President Thompson stated, yes, I’m sorry yes. A motion and a second.
Dave Scott stated, and mainly that is because I wouldn’t approve that variance if it came in here because you’re 6’ off your road and you can’t park a car out there or you can’t back out of your garage without seeing traffic so I would probably not have approved it.
Doug Keesling stated, just as a point of clarification the garage, the current garage was no closer to the road than the old garage and we do in fact, I mean there is room there the way, it’s a little deceiving because of what they consider the road edge that there isn’t, I have a 94 Lincoln that’s longer than any car on the road and we certainly, there’s plenty of room there to park so there’s logistically there’s not a problem there but point taken but…
Dave Scott stated, your right but the road right-of-way, the only thing we can work with because they can put the road there if they want.
Doug Keesling stated, yes, it is… sure, absolutely, yes point taken.
Vice President Thompson asked, any other discussion we got a motion and a second? If not all in favor signify by saying aye.
Board members stated, aye.
Vice President Thompson stated, all opposed aye.
Board members stated, aye.
Vice President Thompson stated, we got 2 and 2.
Charlie Mellon stated, yes.
Dave Scott stated, where do we go?
Gerald Cartmell stated, so now what?
Vice President Thompson asked, discussion?
Dave Scott stated, make a recommendation, I told you how I felt.
Vice President Thompson stated, that’s fine, you’re right. Charlie?
Charlie Mellon stated, I voted and I that ought to be enough.
Dave Scott asked, $500 is enough?
Gerald Cartmell stated, your in violation you automatically get $500.
Vice President Thompson stated, yes. Pretty well puts it on you Charlie. I, really myself I cannot make a motion.
Charlie Mellon stated, no Dave’s the one that’s good at making motions, he can make another course he’s voted against it or for it. We’ve had a lot of these and we haven’t been consistent, somebody pays 25 somebody pays 500.
Gerald Cartmell stated, everything’s different.
Dave Scott stated, we try to take everything into consideration.
Vice President Thompson stated, just a second, what if no one makes a motion then it dies and it falls back on the $500 that he’s already paid.
Director Weaver stated, I don’t know that we’ve ever had that situation so I…
Vice President Thompson stated, I don’t think we have either that’s why I’m asking.
Director Weaver stated, I don’t know the answer.
Vice President Thompson stated, and our attorney left us.
Director Weaver stated, and our attorney left us.
Dave Scott asked, what do you think it should be Jerry? Do you think 500’s enough or do you think it needs to be more?
Vice President Thompson stated, I would say 500 plus an additional 500.
Dave Scott stated, because
Vice President Thompson stated, but yes.
Dave Scott stated, I mean this doesn’t come into play but I built a house not to long ago and I paid more for a permit than $500.
Vice President Thompson stated, okay.
Dave Scott stated, so if you don’t do something people will say well I’m going to wait until they catch me and I’m going to go get my permit.
Vice President Thompson stated, I’m still not hurting. I see what you’re saying, yes.
Dave Scott stated, but I’ll make that motion an additional $500.
Charlie Mellon stated, you didn’t ask the question. No I’m not seconding it.
Gerald Cartmell stated, I’ll second it.
Vice President Thompson stated, okay been moved and seconded to an additional $500 fine over and above what Mr. Keesling has paid. All in favor say aye.
Board members stated, aye.
Vice President Thompson stated, all opposed.
Charlie Mellon stated, no.
Vice President Thompson stated, okay carried.
Doug Keesling stated, all right.
Vice President Thompson stated, thank you for your cooperation.
Doug Keesling stated, your welcome.
****
#2633 Ann Copeland; The property is located on Lot 8 in Stahl Subdivision, North of Monticello at 3421 E. Stahl Road.
Violation: None
Request: She is requesting a 4’ East side variance to add an addition onto a detached garage.
Vice President Thompson stated, name please for the record.
Doug Keesling stated, oh Doug Keesling, I’m the builder, I’m going to be building this one.
Vice President Thompson stated, all right.
Attorney Altman stated, he’s the applicant.
Vice President Thompson stated, he is, okay.
Attorney Altman stated, he signed the application.
Vice President Thompson stated, that’s what I was getting at, all right, go ahead Doug what else do you want to present?
Doug Keesling stated, nothing else it’s pretty much self explanatory they need more storage room and the garage is small so we will be adding the small addition onto the side. We won’t be going any closer to the road.
Director Weaver stated, you’re not going any closer to the side that is to close either.
Doug Keesling stated, no, no, no.
Director Weaver stated, the variance is not…
Doug Keesling stated, the variance is…
Director Weaver stated, because of what they are building it’s because of what’s already there.
Doug Keesling stated, it’s because of what is, yes.
Dave Scott stated, they are just bringing the existing house into compliance?
Director Weaver stated, it’s the garage.
Doug Keesling stated, exactly.
Attorney Altman stated, and looking at the summary of improvements from the county Assessor’s office, I gather right Diann? It shows that the garage was built in apparently 1958 before the area plan had any ordinance in this area.
Director Weaver stated, that is correct. Jerry do we have a letter of hardship?
Attorney Altman stated, the only thing I see here is a, okay it is their letter. It’s dated 6-26-07. We live a t 3421 E. Stahl Rd. Monon, IN 47959. We are applying for a variance to add on to our garage for additional storage because our garage is too small. We appreciate your consideration. Ann Copeland, We are trying to bring the garage into compliance. That’s the garage, not the, well maybe it is the same garage your talking about but again to show this is the situation where this is the improvement that is not complying is built before any ordinance was applicable to this area.
Vice President Thompson asked, do you have anything Diann?
Director Weaver stated, no, I don’t.
Vice President Thompson stated, okay anyone here care to address the variance for or against? Gerald do you have any questions for Doug?
Gerald Cartmell stated, no.
Vice President Thompson asked, Charlie?
Charlie Mellon stated, no.
Vice President Thompson asked, Dave Scott?
Dave Scott stated, no.
Vice President Thompson stated, okay, there’s nothing.
Director Weaver stated, you two are on the ball. Doug did you bring your signs back?
Doug Keesling stated, not tonight but I’ll have them to you first thing in the morning.
Director Weaver stated, that’s fine.
The Board finds the following:
1. That the property is properly zoned L-1, Lake District
2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114.
3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit. The garage is similar to several in the vicinity.
4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.
5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.
6. That the request is for a 4’ East side setback variance to add an addition onto the detached garage on Lot 8 in Stahl Subdivision in Monon Township, White County, Indiana.
COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located South of Monon Road at 3421 E. Stahl Road.
7. That the variance herein authorized and granted is not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make typical or recurrent the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said condition or situation of the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variance is based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variance under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.
The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 4 affirmative and 0 negative.
Attorney Altman stated, announcing the results on the balloting on petition #2633 we have 4 votes cast again all 4 votes vote the variance is hereby granted. You need to get a building permit before you start.
****
#2634 Gerald & Samantha VanDerLinde; 1963 Mobile Home
Violation: None
Request: They are requesting a Special Exception to allow a mobile home older than a 1981 to be located within White County. Section 12.00, Article 12.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance requires that any mobile home older than a 1981 have an inspection done and an approved special exception in order to be placed in White County.
Vice President Thompson asked, and sir you are?
Gerald VanDerLinde stated, I’m Gerald VanDerLinde.
Vice President Thompson stated, you are, okay, all right. Do you have anything you’d like to present to us tonight sir?
Gerald VanDerLinde stated, yes our mobile home is on lake freeman right now and the property, we’ve owned it for a few years and the property it’s on is being sold so we’re required to move it off of there. We have a contract for a piece of property in Buffalo on a channel off of Tippecanoe river and our plan is to move it there and build an addition and put a common roof and side the whole thing together and make it a permanent structure so we need the exemption to move it there.
Vice President Thompson stated, okay.
Gerald VanDerLinde stated, or exception.
Vice President Thompson asked, Diann do you have anything to add?
Director Weaver stated, no other than you have pictures of the mobile home, copy of the inspection that was done and I just gave to the board some additional pictures that were brought in to the office I believe that was Tuesday.
Gerald VanDerLinde stated, yes and when we move the structure the electrical is going to be redone anyway, when it gets added together but we brought it up to code that was required for the inspection as it is.
Vice President Thompson stated, okay.
Director Weaver stated, along with the application, there you go.
Attorney Altman stated, oh that’s the inspection, I thought it was the ballot.
Director Weaver stated, well it is the ballot but that’s what they turned as their inspection.
Attorney Altman stated, oh I see, okay.
Gerald VanDerLinde stated, all the things that are noted on the inspection have been repaired. I think you might of noted that on there.
Attorney Altman stated, okay again for the two maybe three new members that have never seen this before. Charlie’s been around and heard several of these but maybe never voted on one. This is a Special Exception okay, this isn’t a variance so hardship doesn’t have to be proved here. Okay, and basically if there is something that isn’t in compliance he has to basically give him a laundry list of things he must do and then he has to do that before an occupation permit is issued. This is an inspection and it indicates certain things need to be done and certain things that don’t apply and I guess when you vote you just determine whether he meets it and if he does meet it fine, if he doesn’t you indicate what he needs to do if he doesn’t. Then it can be sited in White County or in this case re-sited somewhere in White County.
Vice President Thompson asked, who inspected it? I see initials but who…
Attorney Altman stated, it’s Ed Grist that’s who.
Vice President Thompson stated, I’m not familiar…
Charlie Mellon stated, he’s out here on 39.
Director Weaver stated, A-Z inspections.
Vice President Thompson stated, oh he is okay, all right. That’s the company name he goes by?
Director Weaver stated, yes.
Charlie Mellon stated, he does all the county.
Vice President Thompson stated, okay I’ve heard of that I didn’t know the personal name all right.
Charlie Mellon stated, yes.
Vice President Thompson stated, okay.
Attorney Altman stated, he’s common, does a lot of inspections homes and things much bigger then this.
Charlie Mellon stated, he does a good job.
Attorney Altman stated, for mortgage companies and everything.
Vice President Thompson stated, all right. No not familiar with him. Okay, anyone here care to address...we are asking for a variance aren’t we?
Director Weaver and Attorney Altman stated, a Special Exception.
Vice President Thompson stated, Special Exception golly I can’t read my own writing here in front of me, yes. Nothing? Charlie do you have anything for…
Charlie Mellon stated, no but if he meets all inspections and passes all of that it sounds like it’s all right to me.
Vice President Thompson asked, Gerald Cartmell?
Gerald Cartmell stated, I have a problem with it being pretty old. I mean it’s a 63 that’s when I graduated for crimney sakes.
Gerald VanDerLinde stated, if you look at the pictures inside it’s in…
Gerald Cartmell stated, I know, I know but…
Gerald VanDerLinde stated, really good shape and we are going to make…
Gerald Cartmell stated, it’s still a 63.
Gerald VanDerLinde stated, I understand that and we’re going to build an addition and put a common roof over it and make it a permanent structure so…
Charlie Mellon stated, I don’t think they’d be spending that kind of money going to do that building over an old one if it wasn’t up to snuff.
Gerald Cartmell stated, he says that’s what he’s going to do but is he going to do that.
Charlie Mellon stated, the inspections will, the inspector will bring it up to snuff or…
Dave Scott asked, after you get will it be inspected again?
Attorney Altman and Vice President Thompson stated, yes.
Attorney Altman stated, yes it has to be in fact otherwise they can’t occupy it. That’s why.
Dave Scott stated, he’s got to get an occupancy permit.
Attorney Altman stated, yes. And everything has to be up to snuff to use your word Charlie it’s a good one.
Vice President Thompson asked, anything else Gerald? Dave Scott?
Dave Scott stated, and we don’t have any regulations. He can put this anywhere he wants to in the county as long as it meets setbacks.
Attorney Altman stated, that’s right, that’s right.
Dave Scott stated, so if he is not going to put out there in Buffalo, there isn’t anything anybody can do.
Attorney Altman stated, it wouldn’t matter but as long, it’s still like anything else it gets sited somewhere has to meet the setbacks where ever that is.
Gerald VanDerLinde stated, I have a copy of a contract that is contingent on this approval so we have a piece of property we’re going to move it to, I mean if you want to add that to it I don’t have a problem with it. I don’t know if you can or can’t but that’s where we plan on moving it to.
Charlie Mellon asked, is that property along the river, along Buffalo?
Gerald VanDerLinde stated, it’s on a channel off the river in Buffalo.
Charlie Mellon asked, in Buffalo?
Gerald VanDerLinde stated, it’s, I’m not sure where the town line is, it’s off Kiger Road that ends…
Director Weaver stated, its southwest of …
Gerald VanDerLinde stated, yes.
Charlie Mellon stated, yes.
Gerald Cartmell asked, this Ed Grist is a certified inspector, right?
Attorney Altman stated, yes, yes he is.
Gerald Cartmell stated, well he don’t have a number or anything he just has his name.
Attorney Altman stated, I know I was surprised he didn’t put his…
Gerald Cartmell stated, that bothered me a little bit. I know who he is but…
Gerald Cartmell stated, he just signed his name he has no, so it’s Ed Grist big deal.
Attorney Altman stated, if I didn’t recognize the name I wouldn’t know who it is either.
Gerald Cartmell stated, well that’s how, A-Z inspections or something like that.
Attorney Altman stated, yes.
Vice President Thompson asked, any other discussion? Do you have anything else Dave? Ready to vote? Let’s vote.
Gerald Cartmell asked, what’s this thing?
Director Weaver stated, its 2 pages I think.
Gerald Cartmell stated, I got 3 pages.
Director Weaver stated, maybe its 3 pages. Yes it is 3 pages.
Attorney Altman stated, the inspection is 3 pages the ballot is…
Director Weaver stated, the inspection is 3 pages the ballot is 2 pages.
Attorney Altman stated, 2 pages.
Vice President Thompson stated, the inspection looks like a Special Exception ballot, well it is a Special Exception ballot.
Dave Scott stated, I got an extra page here.
Gerald Cartmell stated, I just got 2 front pages here don’t here?
Director Weaver stated, one is copied on the front and back and one looks like it’s copied on 2 pages. I know why Gerald because we sent you a copy of a ballot in your packet so that you could look it over prior to the meeting.
Gerald Cartmell stated, oh.
Director Weaver stated, that’s why you’ve got 2. We were just trying to help you out and all we did was confuse you.
Gerald Cartmell stated, that doesn’t take much.
The Board finds the following:
1. That the report from the inspection was provided and covers all required areas, see file for exhibit.
2. That no objectors were present at the meeting.
3. That proper notice was given by newspaper advertisement.
4. That the request is for a special exception to allow a 1961 Mobile Home to be brought into White County as required by Section 10.20 of the White County Zoning Ordinance.
5. That the variance herein authorized and granted is not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make reasonable practicable the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said improvement, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variance is based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.20 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variance under the above said section of zoning ordinance.
The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 4 affirmative and 0 negative.
Attorney Altman stated, okay we have 4 votes cast on Special Exception #2634 all 4 votes vote that the Special Exception should be granted. You need to get it sited, re-inspected, and get a building permit, okay.
Gerald VanDerLinde stated, correct, okay.
****
#2636 James A. & Loretta D. Hicks; The property is located on the East half of lot 17, and the East half of lot 18 in the Original Plat of the City of Monticello at 120 Harrison Street.
Violation: Built the addition too close to the property line and didn’t get a permit to change the roof line so it is now too tall.
Request: They are requesting a 1’ 6” side setback variance and a 7’ height variance.
Vice President Thompson stated, and sir you are?
James Hicks stated, Jim, James.
Vice President Thompson stated, you’re James Hicks, all right. Do you have anything you’d like to present to the board tonight sir?
James Hicks stated, yes, when I applied for the permit I thought I was measuring from the property line but evidently I wasn’t. But because the curbs right next to the parking lot and they were basketball courts there and everything I figured the owners before I bought put them up so I thought that was the property line and that’s about all I got to say. And I didn’t know about the 17’ height variance.
Vice President Thompson stated, okay.
James Hicks stated, that’s about it.
Vice President Thompson stated, all right, okay just stay handy there.
Director Weaver stated, while the board’s looking over their information in your pictures, I don’t know how to tell you which page, I can’t tell you which page here. The picture on the second row on the left hand side if you’ll look down to the bottom of the page in the middle, bottom of the picture in the middle there is a property line.
Vice President Thompson stated, this one here. In the left hand column, middle picture.
Charlie Mellon stated, I don’t think I got that.
Gerald Cartmell stated, we don’t have it.
Director Weaver stated, it’s with your pictures that were on the table this evening.
Gerald Cartmell stated, hang on we’re still digging.
Vice President Thompson stated, it wasn’t in your packet Charlie it was separate.
Charlie Mellon stated, oh okay.
Vice President Thompson stated, dig through that one there I’ll bet you’ll find it. You’re getting closer keep going.
Director Weaver stated, yes you are.
Vice President Thompson stated, should be clear at the back end, There’s a, on the left hand side.
Director Weaver stated, there you go.
Vice President Thompson stated, middle picture there’s a red dot at the bottom of that picture that’s what…
Director Weaver stated, the one your thumbs on.
Charlie Mellon asked, up here?
Vice President Thompson stated, no…
Director Weaver stated, go down one, there you go.
Vice President Thompson stated, the bottom part of that picture there’s a red dot.
Charlie Mellon stated, yes, okay I see it.
Gerald Cartmell asked, that’s the property line right?
Vice President Thompson stated, yes.
Director Weaver stated, that’s the only property marker I saw though is, was there another one on the north side I looked and I didn’t see one.
James Hicks stated, yes there was one on the north end too.
Director Weaver asked there was one? Okay. Mr. Hicks came in and received a building permit to do an 8’ x 21’ addition to the side of the garage. That was on April 16th and after he started construction is when it was realized that he was too tall. There was nothing applied for to change the roofline of the garage so at the time the permit was issued we had no idea he was raising height to try to keep this from happening.
James Hicks stated, the height I decided that later and I didn’t know, you know because I wanted to make it to match the house.
Vice President Thompson asked, so he’s the owner and you’re doing your own work?
James Hicks stated, yes.
Vice President Thompson stated, okay I was about to ask who the contractor was, okay, you’re doing it.
Charlie Mellon stated, and he thought the line was in the parking lot instead of property line, he thought it was over there to the brick in front of…
James Hicks stated, yes that’s where I thought it was.
Charlie Mellon stated, that don’t look like in the middle it’s only 2 or 3’, 2 or 3’ more over to where that brick is the parking lot.
Director Weaver stated, yes it’s about 2’.
Charlie Mellon stated, yes.
James Hicks stated, yes.
Vice President Thompson stated, okay, all right says he built too close.
Director Weaver stated, um hum.
Charlie Mellon stated, I just pass there a couple or 3 times a day and it’s back there in behind the trees where it’s not bothering any neighbors view or anything and it’s still not as high as his house and it’ll be pretty well, well as the trees grow it will be hidden completely in the future. And I know he’s spent some money this year because he put a roof on that house.
James Hicks stated, yes.
Vice President Thompson stated, okay.
Director Weaver asked, what are you using the upstairs of the garage for?
James Hicks stated, just storage.
Vice President Thompson asked, anyone here care to address the variance? Charlie do you have anything else?
Charlie Mellon stated, no not really.
Vice President Thompson asked, Dave Scott?
Dave Scott stated, no.
Vice President Thompson stated, Gerald, nothing. Jerry? Everybody’s nothing?
Charlie Mellon stated, well I might say he probably didn’t know the height when he was building it course you know that’s an alibi for a lot of people but…
James Hicks stated, Dave Anderson’s the one who stopped me cause he come over one day and he thought somebody else was building it and he talked to me and told me and so I just quit on it.
Vice President Thompson stated, okay back to the board, like we did the previous one deal with the variance first type variance.
Dave Scott stated, sounds good to me.
Attorney Altman stated, that’s accustom.
Vice President Thompson stated, yes, so if that’s the case no other discussion we’re ready to vote on that part of it.
Charlie Mellon stated, well wait a minute, since your still building on it would there be a lot of work to bring it down to 17’?
James Hicks stated, quite a bit.
Charlie Mellon stated, yes you’d have to…
James Hicks stated, I’d have to tear the walls down that I’ve got up there now.
Charlie Mellon stated, I wouldn’t think you’d have to tear the walls just the peak. You could lower the peak couldn’t you? That’s where the height is, is in the peak of the garage. I know you got your timbers cut and everything.
James Hicks stated, I wouldn’t actually know how to do it.
Charlie Mellon stated, there all together but, you know I, there are different rules because…
Dave Scott stated, it looks like it fits.
Charlie Mellon stated, there’s a house on Ohio Street and I mentioned it to Diann and that thing’s got to be 40 or 50’ high and then I talked well I saw at a commissioners meeting when Dave came in there and then I caught him on the way out and I said what about that I never had got anymore information from Diann, he said it’s got to do with that 2 story building across, over in a block south.
Director Weaver stated, well it’s a different zoning. It’s a different zoning.
Charlie Mellon stated, well it could be.
Director Weaver stated, and that’s why it’s a different height requirement.
Charlie Mellon stated, but different than an apartment building, that apartment building’s got a different height zoning?
Director Weaver stated, it is multi-family.
Charlie Mellon stated, because that there house looks like apartment buildings too I suppose.
Director Weaver stated, that home is in a multi-family zoning district.
Charlie Mellon stated, oh.
Director Weaver stated, and that’s why it can be built taller, yes.
Charlie Mellon stated, we got some 50’ silos and that house is as tall as them and there is other low ones on down one story ones right next to it, you know. So you can build 2 different areas of height in the same block, huh.
Director Weaver stated, depending on your zoning.
Charlie Mellon stated, yes.
Director Weavers stated, I believe the houses you’re referring to are also zoned multi-family they just evidently chose to build lower.
Charlie Mellon stated, well probably, I suppose.
Vice President Thompson asked, everyone ready to vote? Let’s vote.
Director Weaver asked, did you bring your sign back Mr. Hicks?
James Hicks stated, no but I will.
The Board finds the following:
1. That the property is properly zoned R-2, One and Two Family Residential.
2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114.
3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit, and is bounded by a city parking lot.
4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.
5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.
6. That the request is for a 1’ 6” side setback variance and a 7’ height variance on The East Half (1/2) of Lot Seventeen (17), also the East Half (1/2) of Lot Eighteen (18) in the Original Plat of the town, now City of Monticello, White County, Indiana. EXCEPT therefrom a strip Three (3) feet wide off of the entire North side of Lot Seventeen (17).
COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located on the corner of Harrison and Bluff Streets in the City of Monticello at 120 Harrison Street.
7. That the variances herein authorized and granted are not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make reasonable practicable the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variances are based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variances under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.
The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 4 affirmative and 0 negative.
Attorney Altman stated, announcing the results of the vote on petition #2636 4 votes cast 4 votes vote the variance is hereby granted. You’ll need to get a corrected building permit before you proceed.
James Hicks stated, a corrected one okay I’ll do that tomorrow.
Vice President Thompson stated, all right the violation, here we go. The fun part. What’s the board’s wishes? He started on this in April you said Diann?
Director Weaver stated, that’s when the permit was issued, yes.
Vice President Thompson asked, of this year?
Director Weaver stated, let me double check it, I might of looked at it wrong. He applied for it on April 3rd and yes it was picked up on April 16th.
Vice President Thompson stated, okay.
Charlie Mellon stated, you wouldn’t to tear it down and start over.
James Hicks stated, I thought about it, might have to.
Vice President Thompson stated, I know it Dave it’s the hardest part of being on this board, is this part.
Gerald Cartmell asked, did he already pay his fine?
Director Weaver stated, no.
Gerald Cartmell asked, how long do we give him to stop?
Director Weaver stated, well we sent the letter out on June 18th I don’t have anything here to tell me.
Gerald Cartmell stated, 72 hours.
Director Weaver asked, pardon?
Gerald Cartmell stated, 72 hours.
Director Weaver stated, that’s not when he was stopped, June 18th is not when he was stopped. Jerry can you look on the application and see when he filed the variance.
Dave Scott stated, he came over to get a permit and he got a permit to build a garage but he…
Director Weavers stated, no he got a permit to build an addition to the existing garage.
Dave Scott stated, existing garage.
Director Weaver stated, an addition on the side.
Dave Scott stated, okay.
Director Weaver stated, nothing said about changing the roofline.
Attorney Altman stated, May 31st.
Director Weaver stated, okay so it was before May 31st before he was stopped. And I would guess only within a few days because best I remember he came right in and got started and got his variance filed.
Gerald Cartmell asked, so he’s paid nothing?
Director Weaver stated, he has not paid a fine.
Dave Scott stated, I’m going to make a motion that we reduce a fine to $250.
Charlie Mellon stated, second.
Vice President Thompson stated, discussion. All in favor signify in saying aye.
Board members stated, aye.
Vice President Thompson stated, all opposed. Settled.
James Hicks asked, okay who do I…
Director Weave stated, pay the fine in my office.
Vice President Thompson stated, come in and speak with Diann.
James Hicks stated, okay.
Vice President Thompson stated, thanks for your cooperation.
James Hicks stated, thank you.
****
Vice President Thompson stated, okay. Now we have, yes you did not type anything up for this necessarily?
Director Weaver stated, no I did not because it was tabled from last meeting.
Vice President Thompson stated, all right. Jerry do you want to surmise the situation?
Attorney Altman stated, okay basically back at the meeting where the request for the variance was presented the fine was imposed of $4210.
Director Weaver stated, plus the original $500.
Attorney Altman stated, plus the original $500 fine.
Vice President Thompson stated, this deals with the Conroy’s just for the record.
Attorney Altman stated, yes, Conroy’s and they have asked that if their can be something established to change the fine and or change the terms of paying the fine and Mrs. Conroy appeared last meeting and requested that, the board requested that in fact that this be, that it was tabled then and to come back tonight and they requested also that I think Mr. Conroy be present to address the board. I think that about summarizes that doesn’t it?
Vice President Thompson stated, pretty much does yes. Pretty much does. Give you a couple of minutes to present your case again and we’ll have a discussion on that.
Tim Conroy stated, well I mean it’s basically the same thing that she said last week you know, first I want to apologize, as I said at the original meeting I took some bad advice and that’s really not me but I was a little scared didn’t know what you guys were going to do and that’s all I can say is I apologize. As far as the fine goes we cannot afford it. Point blank can’t do it. If we were to pay that fine we would have to stop tomorrow on this cottage and I don’t think the neighbors would like it. And the neighbors are thrilled at what we’ve done. I mean they are thrilled. We made a shack into somewhat of a nice place and we’ve had to do it in steps because we don’t have the money. We’ve been able to save up money for this addition and we’re going, you know we tried to do it right we did not try to put this deck on without, I’m not a builder, I didn’t know to put, to get a permit, I didn’t know that I wasn’t in compliance. We just bought the place we were excited and we went and we went, you know we put on this, we just put the deck on, we didn’t even think.
Lana Conroy stated, started painting, started painting the outside, started…
Tim Conroy stated, didn’t even think about it really and then it was brought, you know we hired the contractor now to put on the addition cause that’s something I can’t do, you know he said you know, we’re going to have to get a permit and the first thing I thought was god I wondered if we needed a permit for the deck and you know it really, we should of done it, I should of known, I guess I should of known better but I didn’t but the fact is I lied and I know that and I expect to be fined I deserve to be fined but frankly I can’t, that is a steep fine. That’s more than I put down on the house. That’s 30% of what we’re paying for this addition. You know like I said the last guy, he did it for 17 years and he’s a builder and he knows he should of gotten a permit and he should of brought it to your attention. I’m not, I didn’t. So all I’m asking is for you guys to reconsider the fine. I’ve paid $500 I’ll, you know I’ll pay another $500 that’s going to hurt.
Vice President Thompson stated, okay.
Tim Conroy stated, you know, all I can, you know I’m embarrassed.
Vice President Thompson stated, I understand. Let’s give us a few minutes here to discuss the matter a little bit more.
Attorney Altman asked, does he have any other evidence to present?
Vice President Thompson stated, I’m sorry, yes. Do you have any other than that?
Tim Conroy stated, no just my, what can I present you just obviously…
Lana Conroy asked, is there something that we should of that you wanted us to?
Tim Conroy stated, we should and I don’t want to go back and like the last guy said if I knew better, I know better if I could change I would, I can’t.
Attorney Altman stated, okay.
Tim Conroy stated, you know obviously my neighbors are happy with what I have done.
Attorney Altman stated, let us, we can do deliberation now then thank you.
Vice President Thompson asked, you haven’t got any response from any neighbors or anything, I mean not that I expect anyone but by chance…
Director Weaver stated, no.
Vice President Thompson stated, okay, all right. He has paid 500, correct?
Director Weaver stated, at the last meeting.
Attorney Altman stated, I have the receipt here.
Vice President Thompson stated, yes, I thought so, okay.
Charlie Mellon asked, when did this extra rule go into effect that so much every day after…
Attorney Altman stated, back in 1972 it was in the original ordinance Charlie.
Charlie Mellon stated, okay.
Gerald Cartmell stated, 9 years after he graduated.
Charlie Mellon stated, well I’ve been, moved to Monticello 12 years ago and I sat, I was on the Area Plan, I haven’t been on this board very long and I’ve always attended most of the meetings and this is the firs time that I’ve heard that big of a fine on any of those cases. Maybe not similar to that but it seems as though we had a case maybe I can’t tell you exactly 2 or 3 years ago where a person went and fixed up a property and didn’t have a permit, didn’t have this and that and I don’t know whether that type of fine was placed on that or not but they sued, somebody sued somebody and it went to court and they settled out of court for $300. Now if you don’t remember that most of the guys all but Gerald he wasn’t here then but I think the rest of you were and I’m not mentioning any names or anything but I definitely remember that and the situation is awful similar the this mans situation and I think it’s too high a fine. I’ll have to agree with you and he’s paid the $500, he’s agreed to that and I’d like to hear from him or her, we heard the hardship deal of it from her the last time of what he would be willing to pay and how he would pay it, strung out you know maybe monthly or maybe every 3 or 4 months.
Tim Conroy stated, well I mean I’m willing to pay something. I should again I’m not a builder and the last person up here was a builder and should of known better. I didn’t and I think you’ve set precedence with him so I’m willing to pay, even though I wasn’t 17 years out, I’m willing to pay another $500 and I’ll pay it tonight.
Charlie Mellon stated, we’ve had the time, we’ve had the builders going back and knowing better and this and that and we’ve fined builders before plus the owners. Not as much but I think there’s been a couple of cases like that, really.
Lana Conroy stated, well if you could the stupid guy that helped us do it…
Tim Conroy stated, yes I mean believe me I would go after him. When we went to see a lawyer he said go after the builder unfortunately we got the guy from on the bulletin board from Kroger.
Lana Conroy stated, and we did part of it too.
Tim Conroy stated, so he’s long gone, you know a handy man special paid him cash so he knock it down a little bit and then here I am with any money I saved paying cash I’m loosing.
Vice President Thompson stated, yes.
Charlie Mellon stated, as far as the lawyers and this and that and hiring stuff like that you’re going to loose money that way too.
Tim Conroy stated, yes and that, everybody knows we went and saw him. We want a lawyer to come here and try to negotiate with you guys.
Charlie Mellon stated, yes.
Tim Conroy stated, we don’t want this to go to court because nobody wins.
Lana Conroy stated, it’s a waste of time.
Vice President Thompson stated, yes. Okay let’s get back to the board here. Gerald do you have any comments or points you want to make?
Gerald Cartmell stated, the only thing that bothers me about it is we gave you a chance to tell us.
Tim Conroy stated, and I agree.
Gerald Cartmell stated, and you choked.
Tim Conroy stated, yes and I’m a big boy and I understand that and…
Gerald Cartmell stated, and that really upsets me.
Tim Conroy stated, yes and it upsets me too probably more than you.
Gerald Cartmell stated, that’s probably why the fines pretty stiff.
Tim Conroy stated, it upsets me probably more than you and it’s not just because of the fine.
Lana Conroy stated and it’s very embarrassing to have my kids here last week with us when we started talking about it, I mean we’re not like that we’re honest normal people and…
Tim Conroy stated, and we don’t have, we really don’t, I mean I often say I’m like a duck on top of the water I look pretty cool underneath I’m treading like a son of a gun just to stay afloat and with this house it’s been, I mean we enjoy it but it’s been the money pit too, I mean it’s…
Vice President Thompson asked, Dave Scott what’s your thoughts?
Dave Scott stated, I don’t know. You guys are putting a lot of pressure on me here.
Vice President Thompson stated, I know it, it’s not fair. I can’t make a motion but I’ll flat tell you what I think but I can’t make the motion.
Dave Scott asked, what do you think Jerry?
Vice President Thompson asked, well I can I can give my thoughts can’t I?
Charlie Mellon stated, sure you can.
Vice President Thompson stated, or I could go home.
Charlie Mellon stated, you’re a board member.
Vice President Thompson stated, well I know I am but in a way not, I say we treat him equally to Mr. Keesling.
Dave Scott asked, what did we do to Mr. Keesling?
Vice President Thompson stated, 500 and 500. Pay it now and we’re done with it.
Charlie Mellon stated, I’d agree with that. I thought Keesling was 250 but that’s different.
Director Weaver and Vice President Thompson stated, no.
Charlie Mellon asked, 5 and 250 wasn’t it?
Vice President Thompson stated, no that was Mr. Myers.
Lana Conroy stated, that was the last person.
Charlie Mellon stated, yes, okay, okay.
Vice President Thompson stated, Mr. Hicks, I’m sorry.
Charlie Mellon stated, I’m mixed up all ready.
Vice President Thompson stated, so say your peace Gerald.
Gerald Cartmell stated, well each violation is different.
Vice President Thompson stated, yes.
Gerald Cartmell stated, and I don’t mean to single anybody out but I think this is a little more severe than Keesling. I mean Keesling fessed up to the whole works.
Vice President Thompson stated, yes.
Tim Conroy asked, can I say something?
Attorney Altman stated, we’re in deliberation so it really isn’t appropriate okay because we’d just go on forever if we just got interrupted, okay. So the board is deliberating.
Gerald Cartmell stated and I still don’t know where I’m at on the money.
Vice President Thompson stated, it is, it is very difficult.
Gerald Cartmell stated, actually I’d like to retire and let somebody else do this. I don’t like this part of it.
Vice President Thompson stated, it is, it’s ornery.
Dave Scott stated, well I’m going to make the same comment I made a little bit ago. I built a house a little bit ago, not to long ago and I paid more for the permit or I paid as much for the permit as what the fine is going to be.
Charlie Mellon stated, well that depends on your footage and everything here though.
Dave Scott stated, yes but I paid extra to make sure that I was in compliance. I got a permit for the same thing twice because my wife changed her mind, trying to stay in compliance Charlie.
Charlie Mellon stated, well yes. You had a lot of information that he probably didn’t have too.
Dave Scott stated, yes you are right there, that’s right.
Charlie Mellon stated, that’s the biggest thing. Same way with some of the other ones.
Dave Scott stated, I’ll make that motion.
Vice President Thompson stated, that’s a good point Dave, you’re right.
Dave Scott stated, an additional $500 and we’re going against what our attorney advised us also.
Charlie Mellon stated, I’ll second that.
Attorney Altman stated, and my advice isn’t which, how much is enough it’s the law what I’m giving you advise on.
Vice President Thompson asked, discussion, any other discussion? Motion 500 additional all in favor?
Board members stated, aye.
Vice President Thompson asked, all opposed?
Gerald Cartmell stated, I
Vice President Thompson asked, is that 3 and 1 or 2 and…
Dave Scott stated, that was an aye.
Charlie Mellon stated, that depends on you.
Vice President Thompson stated, all right.
Tim Conroy stated, thank you very much.
Lana Conroy stated, thank you, thank you very much. Can I come tomorrow?
Tim Conroy stated, she’ll be in tomorrow, unless do you have enough?
Attorney Altman stated, tomorrow.
Vice President Thompson stated, talk to Diann.
Director Weaver stated, tomorrow’s fine.
Tim Conroy stated, all right we’ll be in tomorrow. Thank you very much.
****
Dave Scott stated, the only redeeming factor is they probably had some sleepless nights.
Vice President Thompson stated, I’m sure they did.
Gerald Cartmell stated, they should have.
Vice President Thompson stated, I’m sure they did.
Gerald Cartmell stated, if he hadn’t lied I wouldn’t of had a bit of problem with that.
Vice President Thompson stated, that’s the whole issue but how many times do you, how do you put a price on it.
Gerald Cartmell stated, I think he got the message but…
Vice President Thompson stated, I hope he did.
Gerald Cartmell stated, you just don’t know.
Dave Scott stated, I just hope the message that we…
Director Weaver stated, exactly, it will.
Dave Scott stated, keep backing off.
Director Weaver stated, it will.
Vice President Thompson stated, it will, unfortunately.
Gerald Cartmell stated, don’t try us.
Director Weaver asked, well something to that comes to mind when I think about this situation if you had handled the violation first would the outcome of the variance have been different? I know you guys handle the violations first.
Attorney Altman stated, no, no, the variance first.
Director Weaver stated, or the variance first correct.
Vice President Thompson stated, yes.
Director Weaver stated, but at the time that his variance was approved…
Gerald Cartmell stated, we’ve never approved it.
Director Weaver stated, we hadn’t proved that he was lying to us. It was passed prior to me proving that he was lying.
Attorney Altman stated, that may be.
Vice President Thompson stated, yes that’s right.
Director Weaver stated, just a thought. I mean my thought is you might of done things differently had you acted on the violation first and the variance second.
Charlie Mellon stated, you know if there was some way to instruct the public more on the regulations and the rules of the whole ordinance I think that things would be a lot better. People would know more about it.
Director Weaver stated, Charlie I used to when I was in charge of building permits I used to put an add in the paper every spring and it would run for on and off for a month at least.
Charlie Mellon stated, yes.
Director Weaver stated, but that’s no longer done. I really don’t know what kind of an ad I can put in on behalf of the Area Plan office to let people know. The other thing when this new ordinance is adopted it will be on line and available through the internet.
Charlie Mellon stated, okay that’d help.
Director Weaver stated, so I think that will help, should help.
Charlie Mellon stated, that’s another thing like the meeting we had last night. There ought to of been 3 or 4 times that many people there.
Attorney Altman stated, you’re right there except for that was, well of course there’s several more people on that committee Charlie that just didn’t show.
Charlie Mellon stated, oh yes there were.
Attorney Altman stated, they just didn’t show.
Charlie Mellon stated, yes, but another thing the 2 or 3 meetings every night any more seems like.
Vice President Thompson asked, oh there is?
Charlie Mellon stated, there’s a lot of people there’s a couple last night.
Dave Scott stated, the thing about this fine right here is after I went home last time I thought you know what, we probably fined him too much heavy but my fear is now that none of our fines will stick.
Director Weaver stated, um hum.
Dave Scott stated, because, I mean somebody says…
Charlie Mellon stated, them people surely wouldn’t be advertising.
Dave Scott stated, no.
Charlie Mellon stated, that they got off.
Dave Scott stated, no.
Gerald Cartmell stated, he’s going to flap his jaws…
Director Weaver stated, sure they are, sure they are.
Gerald Cartmell stated, he’s already flapped jaw to the electricians.
Director Weaver stated, yes they are.
Gerald Cartmell stated, that he wasn’t going to pay that much.
Charlie Mellon stated, well.
Director Weaver stated, yes, I guarantee that one.
Attorney Altman stated, yes I guarantee they will flap their jaw that they got by with it and I think we have no further business.
Gerald Cartmell stated, wait a minute.
Vice President Thompson stated, hold up. We do have, Gerald.
Gerald Cartmell stated, we need a little discussion about how many of these we’re going to have each meeting and how many meetings we’re going to have each month.
Vice President Thompson stated, yes.
Gerald Cartmell stated, I’m having 1 meeting a month or I’m not coming.
Director Weaver stated, well but…
Gerald Cartmell stated, and I’m having 8 or 10 and that’s it. It just takes to much time. If it gets back logged so be it let the commissioners take care of it because it’s just to much, it’s way to much. I mean you take everybody’s covered any how so then you spend another night for other meetings and you can’t have them all in one night I realize that.
Charlie Mellon stated, no, I know.
Gerald Cartmell stated, but we’re just going to have to do something, there’s no way.
Director Weaver stated, well I think once your hardship thing catches on they will slow down but we’ve got to give it time to catch on and that probably won’t be this summer.
Dave Scott stated, and the only way it’ll happen is if we start turning down variances.
Director Weaver stated, that’s right.
Dave Scott stated, and I don’t like it either.
Director Weaver stated, and just like your fines.
Vice President Thompson stated, your right that’s the message you’re going to have to send.
Director Weaver stated, just like the fines. This board used to hand out several fines often and once word got out that the board was fining then it got peoples attention but I don’t think legally we can turn anyone away can we, if their filed by the cutoff date? And my office cannot tell someone they cannot file a variance.
Gerald Cartmell stated, well we’ll tell them to file but we’re busy, you wait your turn. I had to wait my turn…
Director Weaver stated, their file by the cutoff date they have to be in for that meeting.
Charlie Mellon stated, if they had it all done right on them building permits to start with they wouldn’t need a variance. They’ve been changed from what they had planned first just like Dave’s wife changed something he said.
Dave Scott stated, well that was my own fault.
Charlie Mellon stated, yes I know.
Gerald Cartmell stated, we know who’s in charge.
Dave Scott stated, that’s no kidding.
Director Weaver asked, am I wrong is there a solution? Is there something we can do in the office to make it better?
Attorney Altman stated, no there isn’t a solution. There is no solution.
Gerald Cartmell stated, just say no.
Director Weaver stated, I can’t do that, I cannot legally tell them no.
Gerald Cartmell stated, I know but there has to be something.
Attorney Altman stated, the answer is, is whether you grant variances or not and if you grant variances people are going to ask for them.
Vice President Thompson stated, keep coming.
Dave Scott asked, can we talk about the one variance now that we’ve already dealt with it? Now that it’s done? The fellow in the wheelchair? I mean we approved that variance and…
Attorney Altman stated, yes you can talk all you want. Not as a board you can’t.
Dave Scott stated, okay, well see there’s an example.
Charlie Mellon stated, oh yes.
Dave Scott stated, there’s no way I’d approve that variance.
Charlie Mellon stated, no.
Vice President Thompson stated, yes.
Attorney Altman stated, then you don’t.
Dave Scott stated, I mean we couldn’t even turn the truck around out there.
Attorney Altman stated, and then you don’t.
Gerald Cartmell stated, I mean I’m not going to tell somebody in a wheelchair.
Vice President Thompson stated, yes.
Attorney Altman stated, I think it’s time to adjourn.
Vice President Thompson asked, move to adjourn?
Dave Scott stated, so moved.
Vice President Thompson stated, so moved meeting adjourned.
****
Dave Scott made motion to adjourn and motion was seconded.
The meeting adjourned.
Respectfully submitted,
David Scott, Secretary
Diann Weaver, Director
White County Area Plan Commission
“I AFFIRM, UNDER THE PENALTIES FOR PERJURY, THAT I HAVE TAKEN REASONABLE CARE TO REDACT EACH SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER IN THIS DOCUMENT, UNLESS REQUIRED BY LAW.”
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