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The White County Board of Zoning Appeals met on Thursday, September 20, 2007 at 7:30 p.m. in the Commissioners’ Meeting Room, Second Floor, County Building, Monticello, Indiana.
Members attending were: David Scott, Charles Mellon, Gerald Cartmell, and David Stimmel. Also attending were Attorney Jerry Altman and Director Diann Weaver.
Visitors attending were: Joe Maxson, Betty Abbott, Dorothy Maxson, Mark Klaczak (Golden Beach Club), Phil Vogel, Paul Benzinger, Sherry Benzinger, Buck Stevenson, Mir Hameeduddin, Sharon Malysa, Janice Conwell, John Rockey, Joseph Rayburn (Fanning), Ryan Basham, Tammy Woods, Steve Woods, and Don Pauken. Also attending but not signed in was Jim Norris.
The meeting was called to order by President David Stimmel and roll call was taken. Dave Scott made a motion to dispense with reading and approve the minutes of the August 9, 2007 meeting. Motion was seconded by and carried unanimously. Attorney Altman swore in all Board members and audience members.
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#2645 Paul R. & Sherry L. Benzinger; The property is located on .064 & .048 of an acre, S S 28-28-3 located North of Lowes Bridge off of East Shafer Drive at 6066 N. Harding Court. Tabled from August 9, 2007.
Violation: None
Request: They are requesting a 30’ front setback variance for a carport and a 25’ front setback variance and a 13 ½’ rear setback variance to build an addition and to bring the existing mobile home into compliance and a 3 ½’ rear setback variance for an unroofed deck.
President Stimmel asked, is there someone representing the Benzinger’s? Would you step forward? Is there anything else you want to add Mr. Benzinger?
Paul Benzinger stated, well our attorney’s not here. After the August 9th meeting we met with Mr. Altman the next morning, or the next day.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Paul Benzinger stated, and he showed us what we had to get and we contacted the attorney here in town and I don’t know where he’s at he’s supposed to be here.
Sherry Benzinger stated, he’s got it, he called, he said I’ll meet you there at 7:30 and…
Paul Benzinger stated, he said he had talked to Mr. Altman and, about a written commitment.
Sherry Benzinger stated, commitment.
Paul Benzinger stated, on the distance on the front and back of the trailer.
President Stimmel asked, is that the agreement to commitment I have, okay?
Director Weaver stated, they do have a copy of that.
Sherry Benzinger stated, you do, well your doing better than we are then. That’s what we were worried about is the paper work wasn’t here, okay.
President Stimmel stated, and this is the first time I’ve read it either. Diann have you read it and can you help us.
Director Weaver stated, it’s been a while. I think Jerry probably can help you because I was not at that meeting either.
Attorney Altman stated, I didn’t realize in looking at this when they, it is not signed by the Golden Beach Club Inc. and that needs to be done before this would be an appropriate commitment.
Paul Benzinger stated, the president…
Sherry Benzinger stated, the president’s here.
Attorney Altman stated, there is a second page.
Director Weaver stated, well that’s a faxed copy Jerry, we still need an original signature.
Mark Klaczak stated, I have it.
Director Weaver stated, okay.
Mark Klaczak stated, I’ll be back.
Dave Scott asked, Jerry does that amendment look all right to you as far as we requested last meeting?
Charlie Mellon stated, that’s really all we requested.
Dave Scott stated, um hum.
Attorney Altman stated, yes, I think so.
President Stimmel asked, do you guys mind bringing me up to speed? What was the idea behind the request?
Attorney Altman stated, basically what it was is they were saying is that the area that was called the common area is where they’re going to be very close to that edge was an area that as part of the process of having this court was going to stay common area for perpetual so that such that on the other side was common area where the access there and that was going to not have buildings on that perpetually such that when they got the commitment that said that nothing would be built in the, on the common area on both sides, Dave. They would basically expand the area so that they would be basically getting setback area.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Attorney Altman stated, a commitment that nothing would be built in both those areas so that they would basically have their setbacks, it just wouldn’t be on their ground.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Attorney Altman stated, and that’s what the commitment was intended to give us the protection of, and them the assurance of, so, and that’s why it says on B that no improvements will be located, constructed with their 30’ of the real estate titled in the Benzinger’s and described above and that area would be only used as a park or recreation area only. Again to make sure that nobody was building there so that it basically took it out of…
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Attorney Altman stated, it’s like getting 31’.
President Stimmel stated, right.
Gerald Cartmell stated, well I think the part of it was to, we were concerned about emergency equipment getting in and out of there and we kind of left it, if the park, whatever it is, Golden Beach Club, whatever it is, agrees that the, gets us off the hook here, if they all agree to that then you know bring us a signed statement that says we’re not liable.
President Stimmel stated, so that really addresses the issue that’s what you’re saying, yes, okay.
Attorney Altman stated, and having that extra space gets somebody, always a chance to build on that.
Sherry Benzinger stated, that’s okay, I just didn’t realize we were supposed to bring that.
Gerald Cartmell stated, you did.
Sherry Benzinger stated, oh it’s in the commitment, okay I understand, we haven’t read this yet.
President Stimmel asked, so is there anything else you want to add besides that, anything?
Sherry Benzinger stated, well I’d like to ask since the attorney isn’t here and we haven’t had time to sign it with him. Is this acceptable to you? I mean we will sign it but.
Attorney Altman stated, this one I have right here is signed by both of you.
Paul Benzinger stated, yes.
Charlie Mellon stated, that’s all you need.
Attorney Altman stated, and it appears to be an original. The notarization certainly appears to have the raised seal and that sort of thing. I would suggest that we have the Golden Beach Club Inc., in fact sign this document. There is an attached notarization on that but it’s not the original so we’d need that.
President Stimmel asked, okay so do I get the impression that…
Sherry Benzinger stated, the president is here with us.
President Stimmel stated, the president is here do you have you’re…
Mark Klaczak stated, I’ll sign that one for you that’s no problem.
President Stimmel asked, do you have your seal?
Mark Klaczak stated, yes this one is.
President Stimmel stated, very good, okay.
Attorney Altman stated, you need to come up to the mic please.
President Stimmel asked, would you please?
Attorney Altman stated, to speak you need to be in the mic and identify yourself sir.
Mark Klaczak stated, Mark Klaczak, president of Golden Beach Club.
President Stimmel stated, okay, Mark. Jerry I guess the question is what copy does he need to sign or, this one.
Attorney Altman stated, I would suggest that he would sign this and have his secretary stop in and get attested to and then it would be completed and then I as a notary could in fact notarize this document so it’s ready to record then.
President Stimmel stated, all right, all right.
Attorney Altman stated, makes it simpler, I think.
President Stimmel stated, okay. So do we want to do that now?
Attorney Altman stated, yes, certainly can do that right now.
President Stimmel stated, let’s do it now, go ahead.
Attorney Altman stated, you’ve got to come up here please and have your secretary and, who is that?
Mark Klaczak stated, Joe Vinci is his name.
Attorney Altman stated, okay.
President Stimmel stated, okay. Is there anybody who wants to speak against this variance? Have any other comments about it? Okay.
Mark Klaczak stated, yes, I have one comment.
President Stimmel stated, okay, sure.
Mark Klaczak stated, it was brought up about emergency vehicles getting in to our properties. Well first of all Golden Beach, we own 5 acres of common grounds. I could get 20 fire trucks in there for you on almost any piece of property in there, no problem. Biggest fire trucks you have can come through our property.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Gerald Cartmell asked, on the east side of their buildings?
Mark Klaczak stated, on the east or on the west side.
Gerald Cartmell stated, not on the east side you couldn’t, there’s not room enough, west side, yes.
Mark Klaczak stated, the west side there’s 5 acres sitting there.
President Stimmel stated, yes, okay.
Mark Klaczak stated, and Golden Beach owns all the roads in Golden Beach so any problems they have they could use anything.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Mark Klaczak stated, because you know these people own part of Golden Beach Association so.
President Stimmel stated, right, right. Thanks for the input sir. Okay, any other comments, Gerald do you have any more?
Gerald Cartmell stated, I’m done.
President Stimmel asked, Dave?
Dave Scott stated, no.
President Stimmel asked, Charlie?
Charlie Mellon stated, no.
President Stimmel asked, okay, ready to vote?
Charlie Mellon stated, yes.
President Stimmel stated, ready to vote.
Attorney Altman stated, we do need your secretary to come in and that would be a condition of approval that that has to be done.
Mark Klaczak stated, yes he’ll be here Saturday.
Attorney Altman stated, okay.
Paul Benzinger asked, can we take it to him or…
Mark Klaczak stated, what ever they want, what ever they want.
Attorney Altman stated, I have to notarize it so he has to come and see me.
President Stimmel stated you guys are welcome to sit down, I’m sorry.
Sherry Benzinger stated, its okay, okay.
President Stimmel stated, your fine, thank you.
The Board finds the following:
1. That the property is properly zoned R-4, Mobile Home Park.
2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114.
3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit. The commitment makes the setback lines extend outward so that the variance is not into an area that can be built upon by others.
4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.
5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.
6. That the request is for a 30’ front setback variance for a carport and a 25’ front setback variance and a 13 ½’ rear setback variance for to build an addition and to bring the existing mobile home into compliance and a 3 ½’ rear setback variance for an unroofed deck on that Part of the South Half of the South half of Section 28, Township 28 North, Range 3 West, Liberty Township, White County, Indiana, more fully described as follows:
Basis of Bearings: Indiana State Plane Coordinate System-West Zone. Commencing at the Southwest corner of the Southwest Quarter of the Southeast Quarter of said Section 28; Thence North 89 Degrees 50 Minutes 57 Seconds East along the Section Line and the Centerline of County Road 600 North a distance of 170.96 feet; Thence North 00 degrees 09 Minutes 51 Seconds West a distance of 286.79 feet to the Point of beginning; Thence North 00 Degrees 09 Minutes 51 Seconds West a distance of 18.43 Feet; Thence North 89 Degrees 50 Minutes 09 Seconds East a distance of 83.13 feet; Thence South 44 Degrees 50 Minutes 09 Seconds West a distance of 20.00 feet; Thence South 45 Degrees 09 Minutes 51 Seconds East a distance of 1.47 feet; Thence South 00 Degrees 09 Minutes 51 Seconds East a distance of 43.68 feet; Thence North 60 Degrees 09 Minutes 51 Seconds West a distance of 80.86 feet to the Point of Beginning Containing 0.064 of an Acre. (Known as Tract 34)
That part of the South Half of the South Half of the South Half of Section 28, Township 28 North, Range 3 West Liberty Township, White County, Indiana, more fully described by: (Bases of Bearings: Indiana State Plane Coordinate System, West Zone), being a part of the land described in Miscellaneous Record 1981, Page 1182-1183, White County Recorder’s office. Commencing at the Southwest corner of the Southwest Quarter of the Southeast Quarter of said Section 28, Thence North 89 degrees 50 minutes 57 seconds East along the Section Line and the Centerline of County Road 600 North, a distance of 170.96 feet; thence North 00 degrees 09 minutes 51 seconds West, a distance of 305.22 feet to the point of beginning: thence North 00 degrees 09 minutes 51 seconds West, a distance of 39.04 feet; Thence South 75 degrees 09 minutes 51 seconds East, a distance of 74.04 feet; thence South 29 degrees 50 minutes 09 seconds West, a distance of 11.40 feet; thence South 60 degrees 09 minutes 51 seconds East, a distance of 20.00 feet; thence South 89 degrees 50 minutes 09 seconds West, a distance of 83.13 feet to the point of beginning, containing 0.048 of an acre, more or less, and also known as Tract Number 35.
COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located North of Lowes Bridge off of East Shafer Drive at 6066 N. Harding Court.
7. That the variances herein authorized and granted are not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make reasonable practicable the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variances are based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variances under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.
The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 4 affirmative and 0 negative.
Attorney Altman stated, subject, of course the secretary of Golden Beach Club Inc. to come in and I notarize his attesting to the president’s signature we have the following: we have 4 votes cast and 1 destroyed here that was from the last meeting when this was tabled and the vote on petition #2645 is 4 votes granting, 0 opposed with the condition that this commitment be properly notarized and recorded, okay. So you need to have that done and then probably talk to Diann about getting this properly recorded next week, okay.
Paul Benzinger stated, um hum.
Attorney Altman stated, okay, and for the other who maybe will be hearing more about hardship when we talk about these variances. What this amounts to is yes they were going to be very close to the boarder but they, because the association said and committed that nobody would be building within the setback area the 30’ around the lot, they basically eliminated the need for the usual setback variance and therefore they didn’t have to have hardship proof that we require of others.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Mark Klaczak stated, I need a time Saturday morning.
Attorney Altman stated, 8:00.
Mark Klaczak stated, perfect.
President Stimmel stated, thank you very much folks.
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#2646 Around the Clock Fitness; The property is located on Lot 2 of Johnson-Tribbett Subdivision, the property is located in the City of Monticello, on the north side of Fisher Street and west of 6th Street. Tabled from August 9, 2007.
Violation: None
Request: He is requesting 42 parking spaces instead of 79 required spaces.
President Stimmel asked, and you are sir?
Ryan Basham stated, Ryan Basham.
President Stimmel stated, hi, Ryan.
Ryan Basham stated, how you doing?
President Stimmel asked, Ryan do you want to add anything to it?
Ryan Basham stated, yes basically I tabled it to catch my breath, I guess as far as a variance goes and to do a little bit of research and driving around and talking to some business owners very close to me location wise. I guess I could of gotten letters signed but I wasn’t going to do that. The reason being is I look at my opportunity as somewhat as a unique one. I look at your Walgreen’s, your CVS’s, your gas stations and I understand why variances are important and especially parking. Studying the B-2 zoning, I just have a hard time categorizing myself in that spot, I can’t really find a place for a 24 hour gym to be categorized in there but basically I’m a young future business owner and it’s a business that’s going to benefit Monticello and not just me. It’s going to benefit everybody and I hope everybody here will use it. You know, I’m just trying to save money. I’ve got the room to expand my parking if need be but I currently go to a gym that’s operated the exact same way and I’ve talked to the owner and at best there’s 12 cars at one time. People don’t stay longer than an hour, some stay an hour and a half like I do but it’s in and out traffic all the time. 42 spots is pretty adequate, at best and the 79 would just be, I don’t know what I’d use it for. I don’t need to plow that much snow but basically I’m just asking for a little bit of help for a guy starting a business.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Ryan Basham stated, thanks.
President Stimmel stated, thanks, Ryan.
Director Weaver stated, since the last meeting I’ve also done some research and the board will find that I have a copy at your place this evening of our current ordinance showing that this use really is not addressed in our current ordinance but I also supplied you a copy of the proposed ordinance showing that if we adopt our proposed ordinance as it is now what would be required for this type of business and it is addressed in the proposed ordinance and it shows that it should be 5 spaces for every 1000 square feet of gross floor area, so.
Attorney Altman asked, that would work out to how many required spaces then if we look at that as…
Ryan Basham stated, that would be 40.
Director Weaver stated, that’s what we thought too.
Attorney Altman asked, it’d be what Diann?
Director Weaver stated, 40 spaces I believe.
Ryan Basham stated, yes the proposed building is 8000 square foot.
President Stimmel stated, oh okay, all right.
Director Weaver stated, so that would put him within 3 spaces of this proposed requirement.
President Stimmel stated, that’s good information. Okay, is there anybody in the audience that has an opinion for or against the variance?
Attorney Altman stated, we are obviously are incorporating because it is part of this matter, this causes record all the testimony we received the last time and that is in the minutes that we just approved.
Director Weaver asked, and Jerry was there a letter at the last meeting, I believe there was someone opposing the request.
Attorney Altman stated, a copy of the purchase agreement, I see the plans, I’m looking for a letter Diann.
Director Weaver stated, maybe I’m incorrect, maybe there was not a letter but I know that there was someone in opposition of this.
Charlie Mellon stated, yes, there’s a person.
Gerald Cartmell stated, yes there was but he’s not here so…
Charlie Mellon stated, no.
Director Weaver stated, I thought there was a letter.
Gerald Cartmell stated, he’s not here.
President Stimmel stated, all right, Gerald do you have anything you want to add?
Gerald Cartmell stated, no I don’t have any problem with it at all.
President Stimmel asked, Dave?
Dave Scott stated, the only thing I’d like, I’m, this sounds good to me especially since we’ve got this on the new ordinance.
Director Weaver stated, it does help.
Dave Scott asked, if he goes out of business and something else goes in there how do you, what is this a B zoning, B-2 zoning?
Director Weaver stated, B-2 zoning.
Dave Scott asked, so what if it requires more parking spots?
Director Weaver stated, then before they can get a permit to be in that location they would have to put more parking spaces in there.
Dave Scott asked, but if they’re not going to change the building, if they’re just going to put a business in the same existing building would they come and get a permit?
Director Weaver stated, that is part of their obligation to come to us and make sure that they meet the requirements to put that type of business in there.
Dave Scott stated, okay.
Attorney Altman stated, a different on in, see this is a commitment based upon him putting this type of business there and if it changes the type of business it would in fact, the variance would not be, if it’s granted would not be transferable to some other type of business because this is a very specific request.
President Stimmel stated, okay. Charlie anything else?
Charlie Mellon stated, no.
President Stimmel asked, okay, ready to vote?
Charlie Mellon stated, yes.
President Stimmel stated, ready to vote.
Director Weaver asked, Ryan did you bring your sign back?
The Board finds the following:
1. That the property is currently zoned B-2, General Business.
2. That the lot is a lot of record and properly divided.
3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.
4. That objectors were present at the meeting.
5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.
6. That the request is for a 42 space parking variance for a 24 hour gym only on Lot Number Two (2) in Johnson-Tribbett Subdivision, in City of Monticello, Indiana.
COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located in the City of Monticello, on the north side of Fisher Street and west of 6th Street.
7. That the variance herein authorized and granted is not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make typical or recurrent the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said condition or situation of the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variance is based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variance under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.
The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 4 affirmative and 0 negative. If this business changes in type of use a new variance must be obtained by the user.
Attorney Altman stated, again announcing the results on voting on petition #2646, 4 votes cast and 4 votes vote that the variance is hereby granted and again as there was not a lot of conversation about a hardship involved in a sense of the ordinance. I’m making sure that when I prepare the minutes that I have the, and that’s what I’m trying to do here like I did the last time, the sense of the board that basically with the evidence submitted that the new ordinance would have a different requirement and a more specific requirement for a business such as the applicant is putting in there and that this would be within 3 parking spaces of that there was deemed that it was not a significant deviation so that the hardship requirement of the ordinance didn’t come into play. Would that be a fair statement?
President Stimmel stated, I agree.
Attorney Altman stated, okay, thank you. I guess what I’m trying to say to the board and everybody here is while the applicants here and maybe the objectors are here I’m trying to say that out loud right after we decide.
President Stimmel asked, did you announce the vote?
Attorney Altman stated, 4 to 0, I’m sorry.
President Stimmel stated, sorry I didn’t know if you did or not.
Attorney Altman stated, if I didn’t I aimed to. 4 to 0 approving the variance.
President Stimmel stated, you’re all set Ryan.
Ryan Basham stated, thank you.
President Stimmel stated, take you’re hired gun with you.
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#2649 Randall E. Watson; The property is located on Lot 4 in R.J. Norris Subdivision, located North of Monticello and West of Royal Oaks on Brandywine Lane. Continued from August 9, 2007.
Violation: None
Request: He is requesting a 10’ front setback variance and a 10’ rear setback variance to build a new home.
President Stimmel stated, this has been tabled by the applicant until October the 18th.
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#2655 John F. & Martha Rockey; The property is located on Lot 8 in Dolby Addition, South of Lowes Bridge off of 400 N. at 3880 N. Dolby Court.
Violation: None
Request: They are requesting a 5.5’ north side setback variance and 3.5’front setback variance to bring the existing home into compliance so it can be remodeled.
President Stimmel asked, and you are sir?
John Rockey stated, John Rockey.
President Stimmel stated, okay thank you John. Is there anything you want to add to what we just said?
John Rockey stated, I don’t think so.
President Stimmel stated, okay. The only thing I would add is myself and Gerald were out to look at that property today and my understanding and correct me if I’m wrong Diann but I think the applicant is merely wanting to use the existing footprint. Is that correct?
Director Weaver stated, I believe so, yes.
President Stimmel stated, and just remodel what he has that he’s not you know and all that 5.5’ variance is going to do is just bring the existing, which was probably built back in the 50’s surely before the ordinance.
John Rockey stated, I’m sure…
Attorney Altman stated, it says in here 1940.
President Stimmel stated, 40, I believe that too, yes, built in 1940 so obviously before the, before the zoning ordinance.
John Rockey stated, something before my time.
President Stimmel stated, yes, that’s the situation as I understand. Is there anybody in the audience that wants to speak for or against the variance? Yes ma’am.
Jan Conwell stated, my name’s Jan Conwell and I’m his neighbor on the north and…
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Jan Conwell stated, the side that is closest to me or the end problem, his house has been there since 1965, I know because I’ve been there since 1965 and we’ve had no problems with the spacing or anything and I wish him well in his endeavor. I don’t see any problem that we’d have with it.
President Stimmel stated, okay great, thanks for the input ma’am. Gerald anything?
Gerald Cartmell stated, no.
President Stimmel asked, Dave?
Dave Scott stated, no.
President Stimmel asked, Charlie?
Charlie Mellon stated, no.
President Stimmel asked, are we ready to vote?
Attorney Altman stated, I have one question.
President Stimmel stated, Mr. Altman.
Attorney Altman asked, would you please come back to the mic? I have a couple of questions, thank you. You’re basically remodeling the home you’re not expanding it in any way, not going up or anything like that?
John Rockey stated, we may go up on the plans, we don’t have any plans as of yet. My builder, Perry McWilliams, said this was the first step before we did anything.
President Stimmel asked, but they can go the 17’ right?
Gerald Cartmell stated yes.
Director Weaver stated, they can go 30’.
President Stimmel asked, they can go 30?
Director Weaver stated, 30’, yes. Maximum height for a home is 30’.
President Stimmel stated, maximum height for a home is 30’.
Gerald Cartmell stated, that’s right, duh.
President Stimmel stated, okay. The only thing…
John Rockey stated, if anything it would be only 1 more stories, so.
President Stimmel stated, Mr. Rockey the only thing Gerald and I, but this young ladies comments about the proximity of the lots, you know and obviously your going to be mindful of that if you do go up and the overhangs, the eaves and things like this so they don’t really get any further than what they currently are is the only thing. And the only reason I mention that is sometimes contractors forget, you know they’ll put up the, or reuse the foundation and maybe the eave overhang is another 12” or something like this the next thing you know your on somebody’s property because it’s pretty close.
John Rockey stated, I understand.
President Stimmel stated, okay thank you.
Attorney Altman stated, I guess the other thing I’d say is if you expand this significantly, you need to have your variance checked to make sure it’s adequate and large enough to let you do that because your saying basically your going to expand within the footprint well, one thing to do within footprint is another thing to go up so high that it’s considered a new or different variance, okay so you better get that looked at when you decide your going to put something in to make sure it’s okay, okay.
John Rockey asked, okay, looked at do you mean…
Attorney Altman stated, checked to make sure the variance is…
John Rockey stated, under 30.
Attorney Altman stated, under, that you’re still within the grandfathering of your 1940 building.
President Stimmel stated basically I think he’s saying is just do what you and you’ll be fine.
John Rockey stated, okay.
Charlie Mellon stated, yes.
President Stimmel stated, I think is what he is saying.
Attorney Altman stated, yes, right.
John Rockey stated, all righty, thank you.
Attorney Altman stated, I’ve seen people that say they’re going to do that…
President Stimmel stated, absolutely, absolutely.
Attorney Altman and it loses quite a bit in the translation.
President Stimmel stated, absolutely. Are you guys ready to vote?
Board members stated, yes.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
The Board finds the following:
1. That the property is properly zoned L-1, Lake District
2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114.
3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.
4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.
5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.
6. That the request is for a 5.5’ north side setback variance and a 23.5’ front setback variance to bring the existing home into compliance so it can be remodeled on Lot Number Eight (8) in Dolby Addition, in Liberty Township, White County, Indiana
COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located South of Lowes Bridge off of 400 N. at 3880 N. Dolby Court.
7. That the variances herein authorized and granted are not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make reasonable practicable the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variances are based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variances under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.
The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 4 affirmative and 0 negative.
Attorney Altman stated, again talking about the results involved in the request and vote on petition #2655, 5 votes cast, or 4 votes cast, 4 votes vote that the variance is hereby granted and if I hear the consensus of what the board is saying is that we have a 1940 residence that is been in the community for at least much time as a residence and since 1965 it has caused no problems in it’s present state and to bring that into compliance is appropriate and that if they in fact raise to a second story that the board has and still keep within the footprint, that the board sees that as an insignificant modification and have given it approval, right.
President Stimmel stated, well done.
Attorney Altman stated, okay.
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#2658 James Richard & Betty Jo Norris; The property is located on 3.468 Acres, Pt E SW 31-28-3, North of Monticello, off the north side of Parses Road at 3307 E. Parses Road.
Violation: None
Request: He is requesting a 6’ height variance to build a pole building to use as personal storage.
President Stimmel asked, and you are sir?
James Norris stated, I am James Norris.
President Stimmel stated, okay, Jim. Do you want to add anything to what we read just now?
James Norris stated, no, it’s just, that’s basically what I want to do is just, I need a place to park my semi truck when I come home on the weekends.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
James Norris stated, I do have a business, J & B Trucking, I also have Jims Truck and Auto. My, there are people here to fight me on this but I just want them to understand. I, myself would not want a business in my dwelling of my residential neighborhood which I fully understand how they feel, what they mean but that’s not my intention. All I need this for is to put my stuff that I have inside, keep it out of the weather and at the same token I’m not building a garage bigger than what’s already there and my coexisting neighbors, I do have letters from people that are not able to show up here. They had other commitments tonight. I have pictures of my pole barns that’s close to me that’s actually bigger than mine.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Charlie Mellon stated, um hum.
James Norris stated, again my, the whole reason they’re here is that they claim that I’m bringing my truck up Parses Road off of Stahl, off of Stahl and Parses, but I always come in on Rangeline and I always come down Parses to my driveway which there is no houses. This man has a petition with other people that’s 2 miles away from me, it doesn’t make any sense. Again I do want to coincide with neighbors. I don’t want any friction, I don’t want any problems.
President Stimmel stated, well the idea of you operating a business in or out of that building, quite frankly is not the issue tonight, okay.
James Norris stated, no, it isn’t.
President Stimmel stated, the height variance is really the only issue and anything other than that is, we probably won’t spend any time on. We’ll be courteous but that’s about the extent of it quite frankly because of the fact that the height variance is really the issue.
James Norris stated, okay.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
James Norris stated, okay, that’s fair enough.
President Stimmel stated, thanks a lot Mr. Norris
James Norris asked, will you take these?
President Stimmel stated, absolutely if you want to give them to me. You understand we will keep them, you know.
James Norris stated, yes, that’s fine.
President Stimmel stated, okay. We don’t give stuff back.
James Norris asked, do you need these pictures?
President Stimmel stated, we’ve got a lot of pictures Mr. Norris but it’s up to you, it really is if you want to submit them.
Director Weaver stated, if you provide those to the board they will keep them.
James Norris stated, I don’t care, I’ve got copies.
President Stimmel stated, okay no problem.
James Norris stated, thank you.
Attorney Altman stated, I have marked the first letter exhibit A, it says to whom it may concern, Mark & Ranae Thorn are the neighbors of Jim & Betty Jo Norris. Our property lines connect and we do not have a problem what so ever of Jim & Betty Jo putting up a pole barn. Sincerely, Mark & Ranae Thorn, 5174 N. Stahl Rd., 574-583-0711. I’ll circulate this to you Dave.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Attorney Altman stated, okay the next one which I’ve marked exhibit B.
President Stimmel stated, excuse me Jerry, excuse me just a second you guys in your packets should be a, something that looks like this and kind of give you a location of nearby land owners.
Board members stated, yes.
Attorney Altman stated, okay.
President Stimmel stated, Diann pointed that out and I thought it would help.
Attorney Altman stated, good, yes.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Attorney Altman stated, and then the next one is in regards to the storage pole building, that James Norris wants to build on his property, we have no objections of him wanting to do this. His property line joins ours all along the north and west side of our property line. Wanda Myers, Richard T. Myers at 5206 N. Stahl Rd., Monticello, IN.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Attorney Altman stated, and then I have…
President Stimmel stated, Charlie.
Charlie Mellon stated, yes.
President Stimmel asked, do you want these?
Attorney Altman stated, I have…
President Stimmel stated, pass those around here.
Charlie Mellon stated, yes I know Wanda Myers.
Attorney Altman stated, 15 photos that I will mark later on as the next exhibits but I want to get them to the board right now as exhibits of the applicant.
Director Weaver stated, while the board is reviewing this information I have a question for Mr. Norris and maybe this isn’t important but I got a little confused when I was working on the files. Are you James Richard or are you James Ray?
James Norris stated, I am James Richard.
Director Weaver stated, because when we were working on the file I realized when you, when the previous variance was requested it was in the name of James Ray.
James Norris stated, I don’t know why, that’s my father.
Director Weaver stated, okay. Were you the one representing the request that time at that meeting?
James Norris stated, yes.
Director Weaver stated, okay. I just wanted to clarify that mainly for myself.
James Norris, I, we’ve crossed this problem before and that they were supposed to work it out at area planning and also with the titles and they worked it out there plus the bank had that problem.
Director Weaver stated, well the property is now in the name of James Richard, not James Ray.
James Norris stated, okay, all right.
Attorney Altman stated, Mr. Norris I have a question.
James Norris stated, yes sir.
Attorney Altman stated, you’ve mentioned something about a business.
James Norris stated, yes sir.
Attorney Altman asked, this is not a business use for this property?
James Norris stated, no, no sir.
Attorney Altman stated, tell us what you intend to use this property for.
James Norris stated, I intend to put my, I have boats that’s sitting outside. I have wave runners, I have, I have, well I have one burnt Nova that I have to redo but when I get that done I want to put that in there. I also have a Trans Am that I’ve redone, I want that in there. Just to tinker like anybody else, just to tinker not to, no mechanics, no employees will ever be there. It’s not for business, none at all.
Attorney Altman stated, and these are your personal vehicles and…
James Norris stated, I own everything that’s on this property.
Attorney Altman stated, and you’ll own everything that will be in this building.
James Norris stated, yes, I own everything in this building also I own other truck and everything but those are at another facility there not going to be there. I don’t want my trucks and trailers, I don’t want it cluttering up my yard. It is my home. It’s at another facility and that is right now that is in Reynolds. It is moving to Chalmers.
Charlie Mellon asked, how far south of your garage there now is that pond on your property?
James Norris stated, no.
Charlie Mellon stated, where they’re digging the pond.
James Norris stated, that’s Mr. Deardurff’s.
Charlie Mellon stated, that’s the next place south, okay. I was out there today.
James Norris stated, yes. Nice pond too.
President Stimmel stated, let’s give the board just a few minutes to kind of digest this and then I’ll ask for anybody else who might have something to say against the variance.
Director Weaver stated, we also received a letter in the mail today that the board has a copy of and there’s the original is in the file.
President Stimmel stated, that’s correct it’s from Tim Hardebeck.
Director Weaver stated, correct. Did you find that Jerry?
Attorney Altman stated, yes I did.
Director Weaver stated, there you go.
Attorney Altman stated, it’s addressed to the Area Plan Commission from Tim Hardebeck, Reference Jim Norris-Height variance, I’m writing in regards to the height variance that Mr. Jim Norris is seeking because I am unable to attend the schedule meeting at 7:30 pm September 20th, 2007. My relevance in this matter is; I live in a very close proximity to Mr. Norris and his proposed project. He has told me that he intends to construct a building large enough to house his semi tractor so it will be possible to do his own required service work. Now, Mr. Norris possesses between 3 and 5 commercial motor vehicles, and I think any reasonable person would conclude that Mr. Norris would also want to do the required service work on those units as well. This in my opinion would now become a business and should be located in a more suitable area. Not amongst residential homes. Thanks for your consideration, Tim Hardebeck, President-Hardebeck Trucking & Warehousing. It shows that it was received o-18-2007.
President Stimmel asked, okay you guys been through the stuff? Does anybody in the audience want to come in on this variance? Just state your name and give us…
Sandy Deardurff stated, my name is Sandy Deardurff and we live right next to Jim and I agree he does need a building to put all his does need a building to put all his boats and everything in but he also, we’re afraid that he’s going to bring more than 1 semi out there as if Sunday he did have 2 semis out there and if he gets more than 1 semi out there we’ve got petitions from a lot of people that walk that road, ride their bikes, walk their dogs, and you know they don’t need to be worried about a semi going down the road while they’re doing all that on Parses Road. Sometimes he keeps his semis running from 1 to 24 hours at a time and myself and 2 others in the neighborhood sleep during the daytime because we work all night which makes it hard to sleep if the semis running. We just built a pond and we don’t want any liquids from the semis coming over getting in our pond and he also has a creek right by where he’s going to put the building, if he has semis there that would leak into that pond and we think it would greatly depreciate the value of our property if he should get the building up and have semis parked around there.
President Stimmel stated, okay, all right. Thanks Sandy.
Sandy Deardurff stated, and we also have pictures here too and I also wanted to know to that if he does get the building up and he brings up more than 1 semi, is he allowed to do that whether he gets the building permit or not.
President Stimmel stated, I think that more or less depends on the stipulations, if there are any in the variance if it’s granted. We may say that in fact he’s only allowed to have 1 semi out there or something like that. There can be those covenants in the variance itself.
Sandy Deardurff stated, um hum.
President Stimmel stated, um I don’t know how that will turn out but I think it is, and we talked this afternoon and the issue was, is that if he is actually running a business out of that and you can document that he’s running a business out of that all you have to do is document that and bring that to Area Plan and they will go after for a violating the zoning of that area, okay, which is not zoned commercial.
Sandy Deardurff stated, um hum, yes.
President Stimmel stated, and that’s your best recourse, you know and quite frankly it may be your only recourse something, if he really is operating a business out of there.
Sandy Deardurff stated, um hum.
President Stimmel stated, rather he brings 1 semi or 2 semis or 5 or 6, quite frankly I, you know I don’t, you know I don’t know how to address that. Gerald do you have any ideas? I don’t, it really, once he’s, he could do that now whether if he’s got the building there or not, doesn’t matter. I mean he could bring them out there and park them in the road, it’s up to him and you could do the same thing, I mean if you wanted to have a car show on your property or something like this if you had 20 cars out there you could do the same thing.
Sandy Deardurff stated, um hum.
President Stimmel stated, okay I mean there are some limitations but there, you know, pretty well do what you want to do also. I’m not answering your question but that’s just the nature of the beast unfortunately, we don’t know. The only thing I do know for sure that is that if, if he is running a business out of that building or off that property it’s in violation of the current zoning of that property then you have an issue. You can bring that issue to the Area Plan and they’ll pursue it.
Sandy Deardurff stated, okay.
President Stimmel stated, either stop him, you know either force him to either get it rezoned or stop running the business.
Sandy Deardurff stated, um hum. Because the road is not built good enough to have semis up and down that road either.
President Stimmel stated, loaded yes we’ve been on it and I don’t disagree, you know, my comment about Parses Road would be that I’m sure there’s farm trucks up and down that sun of a gun all the time anyway, loaded and unloaded and everything else. That’s farm country up there so I’m sure you get a lot of that.
Sandy Deardurff stated, well yes but not up our main drive.
President Stimmel stated, right, right and I agree, I agree.
Sandy Deardurff stated, and we’ve got the blacktop there too that his semi keeps running over that blacktop all the time will break that blacktop down.
President Stimmel stated, right, I agree, I agree, okay.
Dale Deardurff stated, yes we’ve blacktopped the front of our place there from his lane to my lane and it’s only 2” thick and it won’t take heavy semis.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Attorney Altman asked, your name sir? You didn’t identify yourself.
Dale Deardurff stated, Dale Deardurff, Sandy’s husband.
Attorney Altman stated, okay, thank you very much, just for the record.
Sandy Deardurff asked, do you girls want to talk about anything?
Amy Andrews stated, I just agree with Sandy. I’m Amy Andrews I live on 5128 North Stahl Road and I’m just really concerned the same way as they are. My boys are in cross country, my husbands in the military and they run up and down that road all the time. I walk my dog and I just like I said, I want that to be a residential area. I don’t want to have to be worried about them getting hit or…
Sandy Deardurff stated, and you also sleep all day.
Amy Andrews stated, yes and I’m one of those who work all night, I work up at the hospital and I work the 6-6, 6 pm to 6 am and I sleep and I just…
President Stimmel stated, yes.
Charlie Mellon asked, what’s your name again?
Amy Andrews stated, Amy Andrews.
President Stimmel asked, where’s your property located?
Charlie Mellon stated, yes, I don’t see it.
Amy Andrews stated, right behind Dale and Sandy.
Sandy Deardurff stated, on Stahl Road.
Amy Andrews stated, I’m on Stahl, 5128 N. Stahl.
Charlie Mellon stated, oh okay, yes you’re on the left side, okay.
Amy Andrews stated, yes sir.
Dale Deardurff stated, tell them about the four wheelers too.
Amy Andrews stated, oh yes and the boys, they also have dirt bikes and I just, they just ride around the area and I just, like I said semis just don’t stop.
President Stimmel stated, yes, yes.
Dale Deardurff stated, they run them motorcycles on Ken’s property and mine, you know in that alfalfa field and…
President Stimmel stated, I don’t want to go there because I don’t know if that’s legal or not anyway but that’s another ball game, it really is another issue. Thanks a lot for your information.
Director Weaver asked, have you currently purchased your property?
Amy Andrews stated, about 7 years ago, 8 years ago.
President Stimmel stated, you’re not showing up on the map.
Director Weaver stated, you’re now showing that’s why I was asking.
President Stimmel stated, yes.
Amy Andrews stated, gosh it might even be longer than that.
Director Weaver asked, who did you buy it from?
Amy Andrews stated, um Geier, Charlie Geier.
Director Weaver stated, I give up.
President Stimmel stated, yes, it’s not on there.
Sandy Deardurff stated, hers is right behind our pond on Stahl Road.
Director Weaver asked, to the East?
President Stimmel stated, to the East.
Charlie Mellon stated, Charlie Geier’s got a lot of stuff out there.
Amy Andrews stated, he does, he does.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Gerald Cartmell stated, show us on this.
Sandy Deardurff asked, can you show them on there?
Charlie Mellon stated, it’s off of the edge of it.
Several people talking at once.
Charlie Mellon stated, probably east of Stahl Road.
Sandy Deardurff stated, it’s probably right here, yes because there’s lines.
Director Weaver stated, now you can see why we were confused.
Sandy Deardurff stated, picture do you want to see those?
Attorney Altman stated, it’s up to you.
President Stimmel asked, Amy can you help me with this map, can you help me with this map up here and show me where you’re at?
Director Weaver stated, he’s got a different one now.
President Stimmel stated, I’ve got a little different one, I apologize but it’ll help me understand.
Several people talking at once.
Amy Andrews asked, is it all right that I come over there?
Director Weaver stated, sure.
President Stimmel stated, here’s Mr. Norris’s property right here. This is Deardurff’s right here I believe. Are you saying you’re right here.
Amy Andrews stated, yes, I’m right here.
President Stimmel stated, okay, all right, that’s what I wondered. Thank you very much.
Attorney Altman stated, if you’re going to explain these 15 photographs, you need to do so in front of the board and everybody else. Not just to me, okay.
Charlie Mellon asked, part of that roads gravel out at your place so on the west side isn’t it?
Attorney Altman stated one of the…
Charlie Mellon asked, part of that road up to your place, on the west side is gravel, isn’t it?
Sandy Deardurff stated, yes, its gravel.
Dale Deardurff stated, um hum its gravel.
Attorney Altman stated, one of the objectors has 15 photos. I’ll mark, since we had one objection I’ll mark number 1 that is Mr. Hardebeck’s letter. These will be 2 to and including 16. She wants to tell you what they represent. Right. Ma’am?
Sandy Deardurff stated, okay, he wants the building for 1 semi and he has a picture here, the other day he had 2 semis out there so that shows you he’s going to bring more than 1 and at the bottom of…
Attorney Altman stated, wait ma’am, tell us the day.
Sandy Deardurff stated, Sunday he had 2 semis out there.
Attorney Altman asked, last Sunday?
Sandy Deardurff stated, last Sunday.
Attorney Altman stated, okay very good, thank you.
Sandy Deardurff stated, okay and I also have pictures of where the road is washing away. That won’t hold the semis. There’s a picture of our pond where we don’t want the fluids leaking in there. That’s how neat we keep our place around our property.
Dale Deardurff stated, that’s our property and that building is 18’ high, I measured it today.
President Stimmel stated, 18, okay.
Charlie Mellon stated, yes.
President Stimmel stated, all right.
Dale Deardurff stated, yes.
Sandy Deardurff stated, okay and here’s…
Dale Deardurff stated, you guys asked me and I went and measured it.
President Stimmel stated, yes, we…
Sandy Deardurff stated, here’s a picture of our blacktop to where his comes to where the road is close there.
Charlie Mellon stated, oh yes.
Sandy Deardurff stated, and that’s his personal semi that he drives all the time that has been there. We don’t have any problems with that. Here’s his company in Reynolds that shows how all the semis are parked around there. There’s another picture, here’s a picture of the building with all like tires and stuff all around the building that makes the property value look bad and will also pollute things that goes into the creek and the pond and eventually goes into the Big Monon.
Attorney Altman asked, the property in Reynolds?
Sandy Deardurff stated, um huh.
Attorney Altman stated okay.
Sandy Deardurff stated, where he has his trucking company now.
Attorney Altman stated, excuse me, let her testify.
Sandy Deardurff stated, okay, go ahead.
Attorney Altman stated, if you’re done then give the photos to Mr. Mellon so he can…
Dale Deardurff stated, I also want to include on this, when we moved out there June, June the 30th of 2001 Mr. Myers closed the road well that road used to go all the way through and that’s where Jim’s lot is where Mr. Myers closed this road at well closed this road because I guess someone said he didn’t want modular’s back there, I don’t know but, anyway like that road used to go all the way through and then goes to Mr. Myers’s road which runs east and west and eventually goes to Stahl Road which is also a private road but from Jim’s property to Parses Road is 991’, all right where Jim wants to put this building is, if he comes in on Stahl Road and comes up Mr. Myers road he only has to go 300’ to get onto his property instead of traveling the whole 991’ on my road. The only property Jim owns on that road is where his driveway is. Okay, he does not have any, he does not own any property on either side. I’ve got a sketch here how it’s made out, like to show you this.
Attorney Altman stated, this would be 17.
Charlie Mellon stated, there you go.
President Stimmel stated, just a minute, Mr. Norris, I know it’s hard to wait but you got a lot of things on your mind right now so lets let this get over and then we can, you can address each issue. I’m sorry Jerry what’d you have to say?
Attorney Altman stated, I just marked number 17 on that and that’s the last exhibit we just received from the objector.
President Stimmel stated, okay, okay. Charlie?
Charlie Mellon stated, yes. Here Dave.
President Stimmel asked, have you folks said all you need to say for right now?
Dale and Sandy Deardurff stated, yes.
President Stimmel stated, okay we’ll give Mr. Norris a chance to respond.
Dave Scott asked, it says private road back, does he have an easement to, I mean he’s land locked here how does he get back.
James Norris stated, that’s the whole problem, that’s what I’m going to address right now.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
James Norris stated, that is an easement, we all own that road all the way back that 900’ he’s talking about. Mr. Myers, in the front of my property owns that piece of property, this man wants to open it but that’s beside, that’s irreverent, that’s another thing. Mr. Myers owns that road and Mr. Myers owns the road all the way down the driveway. He bought that when Mr. Geier built that property, that was part of his land, he bought that land, he has to give easement to Herb and one more person on that, I don’t even think he has to give easement to me. I own more land on that road but I’ve never asked, I don’t care.
President Stimmel stated, yes.
Dave Scott asked, so you’re talking about the 300’ road Mr. Myers owns?
James Norris stated, he’s talking 300’ to get off of Mr. Myers road to get to my property.
Charlie Mellon stated, yes.
Dave Scott asked, okay but the road that runs east and west, east and west is…
Charlie Mellon stated, no, that ain’t the road, it’s the road that runs north and south up to your property.
Gerald Cartmell stated, there’s 900’…
James Norris stated, that’s our easement, that’s an easement that comes back to my property.
Charlie Mellon asked, where the cows are on the west side of your property is that Charlie Geier’s or is that Myers ground.
James Norris stated, Myers ground.
Charlie Mellon stated, Myers ground.
James Norris stated, yes.
Charlie Mellon asked, he owns 80 acres or some odd…
James Norris stated, he owns, I think 14 there now.
Charlie Mellon stated, okay.
Dave Scott asked, but the road that runs east and west across there actually belongs to somebody else?
James Norris stated, that belongs to Mr. Myers.
Dave Scott stated, and there’s no easement, there’s no access easement on there.
James Norris stated, no he owns that road, period. Now, yes he told me if I ever wanted an easement off of that, I mean he’s my friend. I will, at the first of this we became, we were enemy’s over stupid things that happened but now we’re good friends and Mr. Deardurff and Mr. Myers can’t get along and I can understand both parties, I understand why but I was brought in the middle of it before, now I’m friends, I am friends with Mr. Myers we’re not friends with Mr. Deardurff but that’s the whole issue this is a personal vendetta. Again, I do not want my shop in Reynolds there that you see, my home would never look like that, my trucks, yes I did have a truck there Sunday, I did because my driver come by to give me some paper work because he was on his way home. He gave me some paper work, he might have been there 20 minutes and left. If that truck, if one of my trucks, I own that truck it’s in my name, if that truck was there it would probably be inside the shop, inside my building. That’s the whole point of this I don’t want my trucks outside. I want my truck to sit inside where I can go out in the winter start it and leave. I don’t want outside people coming in with their equipment which I know a lot of them will try but I can’t do that, I don’t want to do that if I do business it’s at Reynolds or Chalmers, that’s it.
Charlie Mellon asked, where’s your place located in Reynolds?
James Norris stated, over at Spark Kelly’s old place, it’s off of 406 North Boone.
Charlie Mellon stated, oh, yes.
President Stimmel asked, next to the elevator?
James Norris stated, yes.
Charlie Mellon stated, yes.
James Norris stated, and I got a lot of guys come to me, lot of guys.
Charlie Mellon stated, but most of that stuff your going to bring to this building.
James Norris stated, no, none of it.
Charlie Mellon stated, okay.
James Norris stated, tires and that, no.
Charlie Mellon stated, well no not that.
James Norris stated, some of my tools and things like that, a furnace that I own yes I’m going to put it in this building.
Charlie Mellon stated, okay.
Dave Scott asked, you’re just going to bring the tractor and no trailer?
James Norris stated, no trailers. That’s another thing, I could if I wanted to you couldn’t stop me. I could come down that road just loaded as heavy as I, I’ve never once brought a trailer to my home, ever. And don’t want to start now even though I’m a little upset, you know I mean I could but I’m still not.
Charlie Mellon stated, if you’re going to discard the place in Reynolds, you might be bringing a trailer home there later.
James Norris stated, no, I have another place in Chalmers.
Charlie Mellon stated, okay.
President Stimmel asked, Gerald anything?
Gerald Cartmell stated, that’s out of proportion really, the whole thing is the height, that’s what we’re talking about.
President Stimmel stated, right, the height is what we’re talking about, 6’ they got a variance, it looks like without looking at it in 03 for a 7’ height variance on the detached garage with the loft in it, okay so there’s that Mr. Deardurff has a building that is 1’ above the 17’. What’s the limit, I keep saying 17’?
Director Weaver stated, 17, you’re right.
President Stimmel stated, I thought it was okay, all right. I might have been in a time warp there.
Charlie Mellon stated, there’s a house over there back just a way, a 2 story house, that’s almost up to the limit on height.
President Stimmel asked, houses can be what, 30’.
Gerald Cartmell stated, 30’.
President Stimmel stated, so different than an out building.
Charlie Mellon stated, I’d say the height of the shed that he’s putting in would match in with the rest of them locally with him on either side.
President Stimmel asked, Dave you got any more questions?
Dave Scott stated, no.
President Stimmel asked, Charlie any more questions or anything you want to ask?
Charlie Mellon stated, no.
Dave Scott stated, oh yes, I do.
President Stimmel stated, I do too, go ahead.
Dave Scott stated, your going to be a 150, I see 150’ to the nearest house.
President Stimmel stated, Mr. Norris would you please step back up to the mic.
Dave Scott stated, from the property line, lets see…
Charlie Mellon stated, yes it’s going to be quite a ways. Is that big house Hardebeck's?
Jim Norris stated, yes.
Charlie Mellon stated, yes. Does he ever bring a semi in there?
Jim Norris stated, no I don’t think he has.
Charlie Mellon stated, no.
Dave Scott stated, he’s 150’ away from the house to his property line.
Jim Norris stated, also my garage that’s there is the same height as the garage, of the barn I’m putting up that I have right there now.
Charlie Mellon stated, I seen that, yes.
President Stimmel stated, right, right.
Jim Norris stated, I mean I went to that variance here.
President Stimmel stated, the only question I had Mr. Norris is and I’m sensitive to that only because I’ve been around them too and that’s letting semis run all night to keep them warm, you know in the winter time and things like that. Can you address that to these folks?
Jim Norris stated, yes sir I’m not going to lie about that, I won’t lie about it, my wife and I had a big argument one night, our house is burnt, I didn’t have a home there, my house is burnt. I parked my truck because I did not want to be at my, I didn’t want to bicker or argue with my wife, one night, one night that ran and that was it, never that was only one time, one time.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Jim Norris stated, well now I have a home, my wife’s got her mother and things are better.
President Stimmel stated, there are bigger issues going on there than I want to go to.
Attorney Altman stated but the long and the short of it is you will not have a semi running over night here at anytime and you’ll…
Jim Norris stated, if I can put it inside it’s going to be warm.
Attorney Altman stated, then make a commitment to that affect.
President Stimmel stated, but I mean I’ve heard cars run that are louder than some semis so, I mean it’s…
Jim Norris stated, it’s annoying.
President Stimmel stated, it’s a noise issue, it’s a courtesy to your neighbors and you know that as well as I do and so do they.
Jim Norris stated, yes, I agree.
President Stimmel stated, I just wanted to address it that’s all. Gerald?
Gerald Cartmell asked, so do we put on there we’ll pass it but as long as there’s only semi there, we can do that can’t we? Can we do that?
Attorney Altman stated, yes you can, yes you can.
President Stimmel stated, you can but I guess I’m…
Attorney Altman stated, and I think that’s what he’s saying so I think I would.
Gerald Cartmell stated, yes, we didn’t say it, he did.
Attorney Altman stated, that’s right so I think I would. If that’s exactly what he’s saying he’s going to do and that would be it and I think that would help protect these folks.
President Stimmel stated, I’m being the devils advocate here, if Mr. Deardurff here wanted to bring in 15 cars and start having a lot of cars there…
James Norris stated, yes, your right, he could do it.
President Stimmel stated, or, you know Mr. Andrews or something like this.
Gerald Cartmell stated, yes, it’s not fair.
President Stimmel stated, besides while her husbands away she’s going to buy 5 Grand Ams and put them out in the back and…
Gerald Cartmell stated, that’s not fair to Mr. Norris.
President Stimmel stated, well that’s what I mean, I have to put limitations on there. I mean, just because it just seems unfair with everybody else’s.
Gerald Cartmell stated, the other part of it is though he’s not complaining about it.
President Stimmel stated, okay. Charlie?
Charlie Mellon asked, if you happen to get this okayed, you won’t have that building up by cold weather though, will you?
James Norris stated, yes.
Charlie Mellon stated, well that’d be another point as far as leaving them semis running if your not ready to put them under roof, why, okay.
President Stimmel stated, one last question, Mr. Norris and that is for me anyway and that is if, did you give any consideration to lowering the pitch on the peak?
James Norris stated, I tried to talk to my builder today to see if I could get, what my builder called Area Plan today and he said that it’s 17’ high.
President Stimmel stated, right.
James Norris stated, and my truck is 13’4”.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
James Norris stated, I can’t get below the height.
President Stimmel asked, you can’t come in the end, you can’t get the trusses high enough?
Charlie Mellon stated, no you got your doors going to be up.
James Norris stated, no, I can’t.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
James Norris stated, I tried to consider it without even bothering this board with it.
President Stimmel stated, yes, well it just would of expedited it for you if you could of that’s the only reason I’m asking the question.
James Norris stated, yes.
President Stimmel stated, okay. Any other questions? Ma’am did you have something back there? I heard you chatting, okay, all right. Go ahead Mr. Deardurff.
Dale Deardurff asked, okay on this blacktop that I put in front of my place here which I paid for freezing and thawing and this semi goes down and breaks it up who’s going to be responsible for that?
President Stimmel stated, it’s an easement and I don’t know how to address that and I don’t think we can address that here, I mean we really can’t. That’s going to be between you and Mr. Myers and Mr. Norris and I don’t know how else to tell you that, that’s not business of this board to address that. So I’m no help to you.
Dale Deardurff stated, no help to me.
Charlie Mellon stated, if he don’t come in there with a trailer it’d be a lot better.
Dale Deardurff stated, yes, well he, I don’t think he could make the turn, he could maybe.
Charlie Mellon stated, well no.
President Stimmel stated, okay, all right. We ready to vote?
Charlie Mellon stated, yes.
President Stimmel stated, unless there’s anymore comments, we’re ready to vote.
The Board finds the following:
1. That the property is properly zoned A-1, Agricultural.
2. That the lot is a lot of record and properly divided.
3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.
4. That objectors were present at the meeting.
5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.
6. That the request is for a 6’ height variance to build a pole building to use as personal storage on that part of the East Half of the Southwest Quarter of Section 31, Township 28 North, Range 3 West in Monon Township, White County, Indiana, described by: Commencing at a railroad spike found at the Southeast corner of the Southwest Quarter of said Section 31; thence North 89 degrees 44 minutes 52 seconds West (Indiana State Plane Coordinate System) along Parse Road and the section line 1331.91 feet to a railroad spike found at the Southwest corner of the East half of the Southwest Quarter: thence North 00 degrees 36 minutes 59 seconds West along the fractional section line 1039.59 feet to a capped ½ inch iron pipe (I.P.) found; thence South 89 degrees 44 minutes 52 seconds East 477.66 feet to a railroad spike set and the point of beginning; thence South 89 degrees 44 minutes 52 seconds East 25.00 feet to an I.P. found; thence North 00 degrees 41 minutes 18 seconds West 312.14 feet to an I.P. found; thence South 89 degrees 44 minutes 52 seconds East 443.00 feet to an I.P. found; thence South 00 degrees 41 minutes 18 seconds East 339.52 feet to an I.P. found; thence North 89 degrees 52 seconds West 468.03 feet to a railroad spike set; thence North 00 degrees 36 minutes 59 seconds West 27.11 feet to the point of beginning, containing 3.468 acres.
COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located North of Monticello, off the north side of Parses Road at 3307 E. Parses Road.
7. That the variance herein authorized and granted is not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make typical or recurrent the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said condition or situation of the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variance is based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variance under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.
The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 3 affirmative and 1 negative. The applicant commits that: 1. There will be no trailers ever on the premises, 2. That no trucks will be running on the premises and the tractors will be housed in the shed.
Attorney Altman stated, vote on this BZA #2658 is we have 4 votes cast, 4 votes approved your variance as requested as modified as the applicant.
Gerald Cartmell stated, not they don’t, you better look at that again.
Attorney Altman stated, oh excuse me, I’m sorry your right thank you very much I didn’t look at that careful enough okay, the vote is 3 in favor, 1 against thank you very much for correcting me. The variance as that is approved as modified by the commitment of the applicant, thank you Gerald Cartmell for correcting us.
****
#2659 Dorothy M. Maxson; The property is located on .417 of an acre, Part SE SW 28-27-3 (to be known as Lot 2 in Abbott Subdivision), in the City of Monticello at 803 N. Third Street.
Violation: None
Request: She is requesting a 26’ front setback variance to amend a previously granted Variance #2050.
President Stimmel stated, and is there somebody representing that variance?
Joe Maxson stated, yes, my name’s Joe Maxson, I’m representing my mother.
President Stimmel stated, okay thank you. Your first name again, I’m sorry.
Joe Maxson stated, Joe Maxson.
President Stimmel stated, that’s what I thought, okay thanks Joe. Anything you want to add to that?
Joe Maxson stated, no.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Director Weaver stated, I would like to do a little clarification for the board.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Director Weaver stated, I think some of you are kind of confused on this request. The have previously requested a variance, the same variance for this property as a whole, they are now getting to go through the process to subdivide the property, therefore they have to modify their variance request to reflect that subdivision. So that is why they are coming back to you tonight. They are not doing any additional building to this existing home but they are just trying to get it into compliance so they can subdivide the property.
President Stimmel asked, so am I understanding it correctly that when you say subdivide you mean subdivide lots, lots 2 or lot 1 and 2 or how…
Director Weaver stated, it will be subdivided into 2 lots. The home will be on…
Joe Maxson stated, 1 lot.
President Stimmel stated, okay, all right.
Director Weaver stated, the home will be on…
Dave Scott stated, on lot 2 according to this.
Director Weaver stated, I don’t…
President Stimmel stated, right.
Director Weaver stated, okay I’m glad you see that because I don’t.
President Stimmel stated, yes. It’s here and there’s the house.
Director Weaver stated, I think we have a problem excuse me, I think …
President Stimmel stated, we’ll take a 5 minute recess. Joe I apologize can we start again?
Director Weaver stated, I already did that.
Gerald Cartmell asked, anybody know where we were at?
Director Weaver stated, we were discussing the old variance and I think we were done with.
President Stimmel stated, all right and we were understanding that really the only thing is…
Dave Scott stated, we’re just bringing the old house into compliance…
Director Weaver stated, yes and amending…
Dave Scott stated, as far as the new lot goes if something’s built it has to be built in setbacks…
Director Weaver stated, to meet the required setbacks, that is right.
Dave Scott stated, or has to come for a variance.
Director Weaver stated, yes this variance will not affect that lot 1 if the subdivision is approved.
President Stimmel stated, so we’ve already approved a variance for the 26’ setback on the whole lot 2.
Director Weaver stated, on the whole lot, yes.
President Stimmel stated, which complicates things for some of us but, the only thing we had an issue looking at it today, Joe is the fact that is, it does, it’s going to stick out at least the way we’re kind of looking at it further than the house to the north…
Joe Maxson stated, um hum.
President Stimmel stated, there’s quite a bit actually, and I, you know there’s, that’s a little bit of an issue I guess just wondering why you couldn’t get back further, some compromise in there, is there some reason why it couldn’t move further closer to the required setbacks.
Joe Maxson stated, um hum.
President Stimmel stated, in other words what’s the reason for having a variance, what’s the hardship, what do you have to do to, go ahead Dave you got something.
Dave Scott stated, no but he’s not doing anything right now. The house is already there.
President Stimmel stated, no it’s not.
Gerald Cartmell stated, no it’s not.
Director Weaver stated, yes, Dave is right.
President Stimmel stated, not what we’re looking at.
Gerald Cartmell stated, not what we’re looking at.
Director Weaver stated, this is requesting to continue the variance that’s already approved on the existing house.
President Stimmel stated, okay so the house that we were looking at was the one that was real close to the road.
Director Weaver stated, and this one is very close to the road.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Gerald Cartmell asked, and that’s the house to the south?
Charlie Mellon stated, of the lot, yes.
Director Weaver stated, its south of the lot but there not making any changes to it Gerald.
Joe Maxson stated, no.
President Stimmel stated, I got you.
Joe Maxson stated, no, we’re just wanting to subdivide the two properties.
Dave Scott stated, they’re subdividing it.
Director Weaver stated, subdividing the property so they have to amend their existing variance to reflect that new subdivision.
Gerald Cartmell stated, then lot 1 where we were at there was nothing.
Joe Maxson stated, there’s nothing.
Director Weaver stated, that’s right, lot 1 will still have to meet the requirements.
Gerald Cartmell stated, we had a long drive I understand your problem, I don’t know what mine is.
President Stimmel stated, that’s terrible isn’t it. Okay that helps, we really were confused, we went and looked at it and we’re still confused.
Gerald Cartmell stated, yes, made it worse.
President Stimmel stated, made it worse, yes. Okay anybody want to comment for or against this variance? Board you got any more, Dave?
Dave Scott stated, no.
President Stimmel asked, Charlie?
Charlie Mellon stated, no.
President Stimmel asked, Gerald? Okay vote.
The Board finds the following:
1. That the property is properly zoned R-2, One and Two Family Residential.
2. That the lot is part of a proposed subdivision of land as provided by the White County Subdivision Ordinance.
3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.
4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.
5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.
6. That the request is for a 26’ front setback variance to amend a previously granted Variance #2050 on that part of the Southeast Quarter of the Southwest Quarter of Section 28, Township 27 North, Range 3 West of the Second Principal Meridian in the City of Monticello, White County, Indiana described by;
Commencing on the North line of Ireland Street, 50.00 feet North 00 degrees 00 minutes 00 seconds East of the Northeast corner of Lot 17 in Industrial Addition to the Town (now City) of Monticello, thence North 00 degrees 03 minutes 06 seconds West (Ireland Street assumed East/West) 291.00 feet; thence South 84 degrees 45 minutes 23 seconds West 100.40 feet to the point of beginning;
Thence South 00 degrees 03 minutes 06 seconds East 182.00 feet; thence North 89 degrees 37 minutes 20 seconds West 99.88 feet; thence North 00 degrees 05 minutes 09 seconds West 182.00 feet; thence South 89 degrees 37 minutes 20 seconds East 99.77 feet to the point of beginning, containing 0.417 of an Acre, more or less.
COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located in the City of Monticello at 803 N. Third Street.
7. That the variance herein authorized and granted is not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make typical or recurrent the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said condition or situation of the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variance is based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variance under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.
The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 4 affirmative and 0 negative.
Attorney Altman stated, announcing the results of the voting on petition #2659, 4 votes cast, 4 votes vote that the variance is hereby granted and I think that logic basically is that there is no change and that the home that needs varied is already built and has been built for some time.
President Stimmel stated, okay, thank you guys.
****
#2660 Mir & Anjum Hameeduddin; The property is located on Lot 7 in Bear’s 1st Addition, located North of Monticello, off of East Shafer Drive to Lake Road 10 E. at 2928 N. Baer’s Court.
Violation: None
Request: They are requesting a 15’ rear variance and a 4’ south side setback variance and a 10’ height variance to build a new house.
President Stimmel asked, and you are sir?
Mir Hameeduddin stated, Mir Hameeduddin.
President Stimmel stated, thank you sir.
Mir Hameeduddin asked, should I talk?
President Stimmel stated, yes you can go ahead and comment.
Mir Hameeduddin stated, we are planning to demolish this old house at 2928 Baers Court. This house was built in 1954 and it’s crumbling and leaky roofs and foundation going bad. Half the house is heated, half is not heated so we want to tear it down and build a new one and the sides are very slope, drastic slope from the street to water and it’s a pie shaped lot, it’s very difficult to build so we are going up like 3 story building and we are requesting a 10’height variance and we’re building an attached garage on the existing foundation and existing garage place. Tearing the old garage down and put a new one in and we’re requesting a 15’ variance for the wood deck in the front of the house, from the water side and we are request to build wood deck to close to the property on the southwest side which is just a decking from the sun room and we’re requesting to build a sun room with a roof over it. It’s my wife’s dream, she wants a sun room.
President Stimmel stated, okay, okay. Is that all you have sir?
Mir Hameeduddin stated, yes that’s it.
President Stimmel stated, and the gentleman acts like he wants to speak also.
Buck Stevenson stated, I’m Buck Stevenson, I’m just his contractor that drew up the stuff and then the only reason why I’m here is I come here in case he lives up north in Chicago, up that way, in case he couldn’t get here and speak why I come here to speak for him but he’s here to speak for his self.
President Stimmel stated, okay, all right.
Buck Stevenson stated, that’s why I’m here.
President Stimmel stated, Mr. Stevenson, I just had a question. Is there some reason why you couldn’t just meet the requirement especially with the deck on the 4’ side setback there?
Buck Stevenson stated, the side where the 4’ setback is, is on the south side…
President Stimmel stated, right.
Buck Stevenson stated, on it and when he puts his sun porch on there the deck that comes down around by that is where he needs the variance for when he comes, when he, I don’t know how to say it, the sun porch…
Mir Hameeduddin stated, we need the exiting from the sun room to the main deck.
Buck Stevenson stated, to the main deck that goes down around in front, if you come out of the sun room and go to the deck that’s down below it gets what by the lot being a pie shape thing it gets the very point that sticks out here gets to close out here on the point.
Mir Hameeduddin stated, right there where you try to make…
Buck Stevenson stated, before you could come around the corner to get on to the existing deck the new deck will be down on the front.
President Stimmel asked, now where do you operate out of Mr. Stevenson?
Buck Stevenson stated, Monticello.
President Stimmel stated, okay, all right. I thought so. I thought so.
Charlie Mellon stated, every body knows him.
President Stimmel stated, well I didn’t, sorry about that. I don’t know every person in this county believe me.
Charlie Mellon stated, well your from Brookston.
President Stimmel asked, Gerald do you have anything you want to comment on?
Gerald Cartmell stated, I’m still thinking here.
President Stimmel stated, your still thinking. Is there anybody, sorry Dave I don’t want to bypass you but I should have said this before. Is there anybody in the audience that wants to comment for or against this variance? We’re limited on people so not very many I’d say. Now Dave do you have anything you want to ask?
Dave Scott stated, the deck I thought could be within 4’, what is, for a deck what is it?
Director Weaver stated, I believe this deck is roofed.
Dave Scott stated, oh okay, okay.
Director Weaver stated, therefore it needs to meet the same setbacks as the home.
President Stimmel asked, did we get any fan mail from neighbors or anything Diann?
Director Weaver stated, not on this one, no.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Buck Stevenson stated, they already talked with them.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Gerald Cartmell stated, anything would definitely be an improvement. I understand what you’re trying to do.
President Stimmel stated, you better do something with that storage barn before it falls on the neighbor’s house, isn’t that something to think about.
Mir Hameeduddin stated, right.
Buck Stevenson stated, see what he wants to do is the old house is setting there, the existing foundations there now for the garage.
President Stimmel stated, right.
Buck Stevenson stated, he wants to wipe the wood part off the top of it and then tear all the wood part of the cottage that’s in front of that foundation and leave the old garage foundation there and then put new foundation in after you tore the old foundation out down in front of the old house, put in all new foundation in and come back and connect it back to the garage that’s there now and then put new wood structure on top of the garage that’s there now.
President Stimmel stated, okay. Buck I’m going to ask a question that’s probably not appropriate right now but I’m really curious because what we saw and I’m sure Mr. Hameeduddin and you guys have addressed this but how now with that kind of a slope, with that kind of weight and all the bearing things against that, how do you brace that into the ground to keep that thing from just sliding over?
Buck Stevenson stated, the basement down below will be put in as a unit down below for the bottom story and it’ll come back with walls on both sides coming into the existing walls that’s there and after we get them in then we’ll put the second story on it and over on the north side they’ll be new walls, cement walls going down the north side to come back to hold that garage back.
President Stimmel stated, I gotcha, okay, okay.
Buck Stevenson stated, if you look on the, if we had blueprint I can show you in foundation prints the way they’ve got it designed out to go in, in 3 different stories the bottom one’s story comes back to where the bottom part of the existing garage that’s there and the next story goes into the garage that’s there, it’s got a room underneath of it right now, which you probably didn’t see that.
Mir Hameeduddin stated, and we want to keep the garage floor same level as the living area so the house is going to be urban design, is for ADA…
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Mir Hameeduddin stated, they’re pre-types so that when I get sunshine years I need to use that barrier.
President Stimmel asked, when you ask for a 10’ height variance, I’m not trying to monopolize this but where do you start?
Dave Scott stated, I was going to ask the same question.
President Stimmel asked, where is the 10’
Dave Scott asked, from the garage floor or…
President Stimmel stated, the lake or what?
Buck Stevenson stated, I didn’t really talk to Diann something about, she said…
Director Weaver stated, well, good question.
Dave Scott stated, average…
Director Weaver stated, the way our ordinance is written it is the average ground height, Dave Anderson the building inspector and I have discussed this that on the water side, we realize that so many of these properties don’t have a, you know, there’s a big variation.
President Stimmel stated, yes, huge.
Director Weaver stated, so when he goes out and checks the height he checks it from the road side.
President Stimmel stated, oh really.
Director Weaver stated, yes and after talking to Dave and talking to Buck about this, we are not sure that they even need that height variance. Is that correct?
Buck Stevenson stated, that’s what, yes.
President Stimmel stated, really, okay.
Buck Stevenson stated, yes, see back on the road where the existing garage will go back identical practically to what it is right now.
President Stimmel stated, yes.
Buck Stevenson stated, which it’ll be underneath the height, the reason I was asking for the height variance, when you go around on the lake side, which we build one a year ago and they made us go off the lake side which we had to do some redoing to get it through, and I come back this year and they say that we don’t have to get within the height variance in front, Diann told me so that kind of cleared that all up when she said we’ll be 10, 20, 30’ plus the trusses on top of it, your already at your 30’.
President Stimmel stated, right.
Buck Stevenson stated, and then you put the trusses on top of it we’ve got another 5, 6 feet so your 35, 36’ in the air on the lake side.
President Stimmel stated, right.
Director Weaver stated, the reason that we look at this way is because we realize that you may have a walkout basement on a lake home that you’re not going to see from the road side…
President Stimmel stated, right.
Director Weaver stated, but you will on the lake side but a normal home you wouldn’t see that basement so it wouldn’t count towards your height and that’s the fairest way, we felt to deal with this height.
President Stimmel stated, okay, okay. Charlie anything?
Charlie Mellon stated, no.
President Stimmel asked, Dave?
Dave Scott asked, do they have the sewer system out there yet?
Buck Stevenson stated, yes.
Dave Scott stated, oh I seen septic.
Buck Stevenson stated, I can show you where it’s at.
Dave Scott stated, yes, I see it now, I didn’t see it before.
Director Weaver stated, I took a picture of it to Dave so it’s in your pictures also.
Dave Scott stated, no this is fine I just…
Buck Stevenson stated, no the sewer, where’s the garage?
Gerald Cartmell stated, it says the grinders right there.
Dave Scott stated, right here okay.
Gerald Cartmell stated, of course Milligan may be wrong.
Buck Stevenson stated, but it’s gotta be moved.
Gerald Cartmell stated, I thought we did.
Buck Stevenson stated, it sits right close to the house.
Dave Scott stated, that’s why…
President Stimmel stated, really, wow.
Buck Stevenson stated, it’s gotta be moved because I talked to, where it’s sitting right now when you build the new house when you come down beside the new house with a stair steps it goes right over the top where the grinder sets and the grinder has to be moved in order to make it work so you can get a bathroom in the basement, it has to be moved north and down the hill.
President Stimmel stated, wow.
Charlie Mellon stated, yes it’d be easy to do that.
President Stimmel stated, Mr. Hameeduddin is this going to be a full time residence?
Mir Hameeduddin stated, yes.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Mir Hameeduddin stated, starting maybe a year from now.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Mir Hameeduddin stated, when it’s built. I’m planning to retire in August.
President Stimmel stated, great.
Mir Hameeduddin stated, next August.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Buck Stevenson stated, as far as the grinder pump, the way the lot sets like this the grinder pumps sitting here when you move off down this way there’s plenty, a lot of room, it’s supposed to be according to their rules from the sewer district it’s supposed to be 10’ from the house which right now they let it fly when they put it in they didn’t get it 10’ from the house but when they put it in for the new house they can put it over and down the hill probably 20’ from the house.
Charlie Mellon stated, um hum.
Director Weaver asked, is there any off street parking available when, once this is done? Because as of this point in time there is no place to park off the street.
Buck Stevenson stated, there’s probably a place to park 2 cars in front of the garage probably and maybe 1 beside it or something.
President Stimmel stated, it’d have to be little cars.
Director Weaver stated, I was going to say I didn’t want to pull my little car in there.
Mir Hameeduddin stated, by the barn. You know where the barn is?
President Stimmel stated, gottcha, thanks Mr. Hameeduddin you can go ahead.
Mir Hameeduddin stated, there’s a spot by the barn and on the right side also.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Buck Stevenson stated, I was going to could probably park one car on the south side of the garage and you could park one on the north side and if you had a little car you could park it in front of the garage but it’d have to be a smaller car. He parked there tonight when I went down there to get him. He had his car sitting in front of it and it was off the road.
President Stimmel stated, I’ll be darned.
Buck Stevenson stated, its close.
Dave Scott stated, um hum.
President Stimmel asked, if I were to, if I were to address the hardship issue of the this, the hardship issue to me would be the, is the size of dimensions of the existing lot in the sense that and also the drop off of it, I mean that’s…
Mir Hameeduddin stated, and the topographical is like this.
President Stimmel stated, yes the topographical, yes it’s very…
Mir Hameeduddin stated, yes, my neighbors are like this and I’m in a hole.
President Stimmel stated, the proposed addition although it’s a sizeable addition it’s not going to be, you know it’s not encroaching passed the 8’, the only thing is the deck, the proposed deck. Everything else, essentially is going to stay within the same footprint, with the exception of the deck. Is that fairly stated or do you guys disagree or is there no hardship or what do you think.
Dave Scott stated, I don’t how much slope there…
Charlie Mellon stated, that’d take care of it.
Dave Scott stated, go ahead Charlie.
Charlie Mellon stated, I think that’d take care of the hardship deal, really.
President Stimmel stated, that’s just me speaking.
Charlie Mellon stated, yes.
Mir Hameeduddin stated, from the road to the pier your talking about 35’.
President Stimmel stated, yes.
Dave Scott asked, from the deck to the what? From the deck to the water’s 35’.
Mir Hameeduddin stated, no.
Attorney Altman stated, from the road to the…
Mir Hameeduddin stated, from the street level, the road level to the water level, the pier level.
Gerald Cartmell stated, height.
Dave Scott stated, there’s 25’ of drop.
Mir Hameeduddin stated, 35’ of…
Director Weaver stated, drop.
Mir Hameeduddin stated, but from the deck to the water maybe 12’.
President Stimmel asked, it shows 35 doesn’t it Dave?
Dave Scott stated, yes it shows 35.
Director Weaver stated, well that’s not…
Gerald Cartmell stated, he’s talking about this, he’s talking about this.
Director Weaver stated, topo.
Dave Scott stated, oh the drop, he’s talking about the drop’
Director Weaver stated, he’s, yes.
Dave Scott stated, I guess what I’m sitting here thinking about, if the only thing you’re saving is the garage floor…
Buck Stevenson stated, your saving the foundation and all.
Dave Scott stated, oh he’s saving the foundation and everything.
Buck Stevenson stated, see the garage is sitting there like…
Director Weaver stated, the garage has a basement in it now doesn’t it.
Mir Hameeduddin stated, correct, correct.
Buck Stevenson stated, see there’s a basement in that garage right now.
Mir Hameeduddin stated, a tornado shelter.
Dave Scott stated, okay I was going to say since…
Buck Stevenson stated, the garage sits here right now and if you drive in that garage, half way in that garage you drop down 8’. There’s a basement, a cement basement in that garage.
President Stimmel stated, I’ll be darned.
Buck Stevenson stated, and that’s what you got to connect back to.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Buck Stevenson stated, you get into the basin, you get into I suppose you say the basement below the garage floor you got to go around down stairs and come into it from the north end.
Dave Scott stated, I would say, I would agree with what you said about the hardship would probably be that…
President Stimmel stated, well if he was going to razz the whole thing and start over I’d say stay within the limits.
Dave Scott stated, yes, it looks like you could twist it a little bit and get it and maybe not need the setbacks but I can see that…
Buck Stevenson stated, that house right now, I think outside of that deck meets all the setbacks I think.
President Stimmel stated, yes it looks like…
Dave Scott stated, yes, it probably does.
Buck Stevenson stated, the only setback it don’t meet is where he’s putting his…
Mir Hameeduddin stated, the wood deck.
Buck Stevenson stated, that wood deck out there.
President Stimmel stated, the wood deck.
Director Weaver stated, and the garage.
Buck Stevenson stated, all the rest, everything else is all legal.
President Stimmel stated, right everything else would be grandfathered in.
Dave Scott stated, yes, well, yes.
President Stimmel stated, essentially. Okay.
Dave Scott stated, if at all possible we’d like to move the garage back off the road so, I mean this isn’t a good situation.
President Stimmel stated, yes.
Dave Scott stated, where you can’t get the car off the road.
Mir Hameeduddin stated, the rap is already there from the road to the…
Dave Scott stated, yes, I see it.
Mir Hameeduddin stated, garage.
President Stimmel stated, okay. What do you think Dave anymore?
Dave Scott stated, no.
President Stimmel asked, Gerald any more?
Gerald Cartmell stated, no.
President Stimmel asked, Charlie?
Charlie Mellon stated, no.
President Stimmel asked, okay, ready to vote?
Charlie Mellon stated, yes.
The Board finds the following:
1. That the property is properly zoned L-1, Lake District
2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114.
3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.
4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.
5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.
6. That the request is for a 15’ front variance and a 10’ height variance to build a new house and attach the garage on Lot Number Seven (7) in Baer’s First Addition to Glenwood Farm in Union Township, White County, Indiana.
COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located North of Monticello, off of East Shafer Drive to Lake Road 10 E. at 2928 N. Baer’s Court.
7. That the variances herein authorized and granted are not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make reasonable practicable the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variances are based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variances under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.
The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 4 affirmative and 0 negative.
Attorney Altman stated, okay, announcing the results on the petition #2660, 4 votes cast in this case 4 votes vote the variance is hereby granted. You need to get a building permit before you proceed.
President Stimmel stated, thank you Mr. Hameeduddin.
Mir Hameeduddin stated, thank you.
****
#2661 Sharon A. Malysa & Joseph Tadevich; The property is located on Lots 7 & 8 in Shore Acres 1st Addition, north of Norway Dam at 3508 N. Shore Acres Court.
Violation: The deck was roofed without a permit and is too close to the property line.
Request: They are requesting a 5.5’ side setback variance for a covered porch.
President Stimmel asked, and is somebody representing Mr. Tadevich?
Sharon Malysa stated, hi I’m Sharon Malysa.
President Stimmel stated, okay Sharon A. Malysa.
Sharon Malysa stated, yes just like the girls first name.
President Stimmel stated, okay, all right. Thank you very much. Sharon can you add anything to what I’ve just said?
Sharon Malysa stated, nothing really much other than what I wrote in the letter explaining how I hired a carpenter to do the job and I assumed that he would know the ordinances and variances and stuff like that and apparently he didn’t and when I found out from Dave that he didn’t get a permit I had to get in contact with him and that’s when I was informed of this variance violation and told to come here because of this 8’ setback. My carpenter told me that he assumed, and then again he assumed, that since the concrete pad was already in there for many years that he didn’t need a permit to roof over an existing patio.
President Stimmel asked, who was your contractor? I know this young man.
Sharon Malysa stated, Arturo somebody, I don’t know. I left my cell phone in my car and that’s the only place I had his name.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Attorney Altman stated, we need his name.
President Stimmel stated, yes, we need his name.
Attorney Altman stated, and address.
Sharon Malysa stated, I don’t even have that, I have his name and his phone number. Can I bring that in tomorrow morning or?
President Stimmel stated, um…
Dave Scott asked, can we address the violation at the next meeting and maybe request that he be here?
President Stimmel asked, can we do that, is he a local guy or where’s he from?
Sharon Malysa stated, yes, he’s local.
President Stimmel asked, is he local?
Sharon Malysa stated, yes.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Dave Scott stated, let her know…
Attorney Altman stated, I don’t want to get the cart before the horse here.
President Stimmel stated, yes.
Sharon Malysa stated, I believe it’s probably because he doesn’t speak English very well.
President Stimmel stated, oh really.
Attorney Altman stated, then I guess what I’m saying is I look at this, it’s not like no matter what we do we’re holding anything up, I really think it ought to all be tabled and have him here to explain this and be accountable for this violation.
President Stimmel asked, ma’am, you say he doesn’t speak very good English?
Sharon Malysa stated, right he’s Mexican.
President Stimmel stated, Mexican.
Sharon Malysa stated, right and see I guess he used to work for Perry…
Gerald Cartmell stated, McWilliams.
Sharon Malysa stated, yes.
Gerald Cartmell stated, I know who he is.
Sharon Malysa stated, he was doing a job next door to another, that big house he did on Untalulti and that’s how I ended up getting him to do this deck or this roof.
President Stimmel stated, okay, here’s what I suggest to you if you don’t mind and that is if you bring him here and hoping that you will next month.
Sharon Malysa stated, it’s just that I wish I knew this as he was just at my house prior to my coming here.
President Stimmel stated, well if he has a hard time communicating in English I would ask you to bring somebody that can communicate with him.
Attorney Altman stated, translator.
President Stimmel stated, a translator or something so we do not, so there’s nothing done that he doesn’t understand, that’s my biggest fear because I don’t want us to take any action or undertake any kind of thing that we’re going to do without him understanding completely what we are going to do, okay. And I have to tell you that, I think the board’s going to feel that this is a pretty serious violation, a very serious violation and we basically, we’ve got 2 options we either fine, address the fine and fine somebody, you or the contractor or both, okay or make you tear it off.
Attorney Altman stated, and maybe fined.
President Stimmel stated, and pay the fine. Those are the 2 options.
Sharon Malysa asked, there would never be a 3rd option of cutting it back to 5 1/2’?
President Stimmel stated, you could do that, that’s what I mean by tearing it off, cutting it off, you know.
Sharon Malysa stated, oh I thought you meant ripping the whole thing from…
President Stimmel stated, no, no just back to where it meets the setback and that’s entirely possible too and you may want to discuss that with him before you come next month you’ve got 30 days to discuss this with him, you might want to discuss the fact of what he did and the fact of that he ought to move it back 5 ½’ make you come within…
Charlie Mellon asked, can you compute with him and make him understand this and that?
Sharon Malysa stated, well actually Mr. Fletcher used to live down the street from me and he was also a contactor and he lived down the street from me and his wife used to translate and explain to him what was going on with everything but they moved to Texas.
Charlie Mellon stated, that’d be a good one to contact and bring with…
Sharon Malysa stated, but they moved to Texas.
President Stimmel stated, they moved to Texas.
Charlie Mellon stated, oh.
Sharon Malysa stated, just a few weeks ago.
Attorney Altman stated, you call me I can get you a translator.
President Stimmel stated, yes, Jerry can get you a translator if you have to, okay, Mr. Altman can.
Attorney Altman stated, several good translators in this community that you can secure the services of and have them here, okay.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Attorney Altman stated, I’m Jerry Altman. I think you see that, I’m an attorney right across the way here, north of the courthouse here. I’m the attorney for the board so I can give you that so if you’ll call me I can give you the names, okay.
President Stimmel stated, okay so what we’re talking about then is we’re going to, we’re passing Mrs. Malysa’s, we’re considering tabling this request, okay, and asking Mrs. Malysa to bring back the contractor and an interpreter if necessary, okay to that address the variance and the fine or the violation at that particular time. Am I saying that right?
Gerald Cartmell stated, sounds very good.
President Stimmel asked, does anybody else want to say it a different way or just disagree?
Attorney Altman stated, no, I would recommend also that she get the name and address of this contractor so that we can send him written notice tomorrow.
President Stimmel stated, that’s a good idea.
Attorney Altman stated, okay.
President Stimmel asked, could you do that ma’am?
Sharon Malysa stated, yes.
President Stimmel stated, you know get this to the board or not to the board but to the area plan or to Mr. Altman?
Director Weaver stated, or to me.
Attorney Altman stated, Diann’s fine.
President Stimmel stated, yes, Diann’s fine, just get the information about where this guy, what his address is, his name, address etcetera so she can contact him by letter to make sure he’s there.
Sharon Malysa stated, tomorrow.
President Stimmel asked, can you call the Area Plan to give them that information?
Sharon Malysa stated, yes.
President Stimmel stated, okay, all right. Do you understand completely what we’re saying?
Sharon Malysa stated, right.
President Stimmel stated, okay we’re going to table this, we’re going to entertain a motion to table this request until next month at which time we’re asking you to bring the contractor with you and or, and an interpreter if required and that tomorrow you need to get a hold of Area Plan and give them the name and address of this contractor so that he can be contacted by mail.
Sharon Malysa asked, okay do I leave the variance, the meeting sign, the sign there where it’s at now or I got, the dates got to be changed then.
Director Weaver stated, I will change it.
Sharon Malysa stated, oh you’ll, okay so I just leave the sign there.
President Stimmel stated, so she’ll take care of that. Okay.
Sharon Malysa asked, so there’s nothing else I have to do?
President Stimmel stated, well just wait we’re going to entertain that motion so if anybody wants to make that motion.
Dave Scott made a motion.
Gerald Cartmell stated, I’ll second it.
President Stimmel stated, been moved, seconded all in favor say aye.
Board members stated, aye.
President Stimmel stated, okay it’s carried.
Attorney Altman stated, give the ballots back please.
President Stimmel stated, is it tabled or motion’s been tabled.
Sharon Malysa asked, can I ask one other thing?
President Stimmel stated, sure.
Sharon Malysa asked, what is the attorneys name again?
Attorney Altman stated, Jerry Altman, Altman, 583-5632.
Sharon Malysa stated, okay. So if he needs an interpreter for it I can call you and hire one through you?
Attorney Altman stated, you bet I can get one and if he needs a translator you better get one because…
Sharon Malysa stated, right.
President Stimmel stated, thanks Mrs. Malysa.
Sharon Malysa stated, okay thank you.
****
#2663 Stephen L. & Tammy L. Woods; The property is located on 3.444 Acres, PT E 20-25-3, East of Brookston at 10281 S. Wildwood Court
Violation: None
Request: They are requesting a 3’ height variance to build a new home.
President Stimmel asked, and you are?
Steven Woods stated, I’m Steven Woods.
Tammy Woods stated, and Tammy Woods.
President Stimmel stated, okay thank you very much. Anything you want to add to this?
Steven Woods stated, no I guess the reason that went over, 2 reasons we changed the pitch of the roof to add 2 bonus rooms upstairs just to get more living space and my concerns with our basement, because I wanted a gravity drain to eliminate a sump pump so we raised that up a little bit to get it to go into the, and then after we did all of that we come to get our building permit and I don’t think it’s actually going to be 3’, I calculated about 6” but we’re trying to cover it just to make sure that if Dave comes out with his tape measure it’s, if it catch him on top of the roof I want to make sure we’ve got it.
President Stimmel stated, yes, okay, all right. Don do you have any objections to this one? You’re the only one here that’s the only reason I’m asking?
Don Pauken stated, I didn’t, I didn’t take an oath.
President Stimmel stated, okay, all right.
Charlie Mellon asked, do you want to take one now?
President Stimmel asked, all right, Charlie anything, you got a question?
Charlie Mellon stated, no I was down there and they got a woods on 3 sides of that and there won’t be any other buildings around it as far as being lower or higher that’ll be the first one there.
President Stimmel asked, there’s 3 lots in that subdivision isn’t there Steve?
Steven Woods stated, right.
President Stimmel stated, the other lots in behind you, behind that fence line.
Steven Woods stated, right and actually because we’re friends with the neighbors we’re actually going to put a privacy thing there, we’re going to have 50’ tall trees back there eventually.
President Stimmel stated, wow, okay Dave do you have any questions? Gerald?
Steven Woods stated, before we die.
Gerald Cartmell stated, I just think they want to be as tall as the neighbor’s house is what I think.
President Stimmel stated, yes, I think that’s it.
Gerald Cartmell stated, driving around back there everybody’s got nice houses.
President Stimmel stated, there’s some tall houses back there.
Gerald Cartmell stated, see who can outdo who.
President Stimmel stated, wow.
Gerald Cartmell stated, it’s neat.
President Stimmel stated, it’s a nice area. Ready to vote?
Members of the board stated, yes.
The Board finds the following:
1. That the property is properly zoned A-1, Agricultural
2. That the lot is a lot of record and properly divided.
3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit. Because of the lot elevation and the elevation needed to secure proper drainage of the home, it must be built at this elevation.
4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.
5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.
6. That the request is for a 3’ height variance to build a new home on that part of the East Half of Section 20, Township 25 North, Range 3 West in Prairie Township, White County, Indiana described by: Commencing at a railroad spike found at the Northwest corner of the Northeast Quarter of said Section 20; thence South 00°56’34” East (Indiana State Plane Coordinate System) along the quarter section line 1416.77 feet to a railroad spike found; thence North 88°05’30” East 50.00 feet to a survey nail (SN) set at the point of beginning; thence continuing North 88°05’30” East along CR 1025S 325.47 feet to a railroad spike found; thence South 14°23’53” East 336.30 feet to a capped w/I.D. ½ inch iron pipe (I.P.) set; thence South 01°00’34” East 78.41 feet to an I.P. set; thence South 89°03’25” West 403.77 feet to an I.P. set; thence North 00°56’35” West 400.00 feet to the point of beginning, containing 3.444 acres, more or less.
COMMON DESCRIPTION: This property is located East of Brookston at 10281 S. Wildwood Court.
7. That the variance herein authorized and granted is not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make typical or recurrent the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said condition or situation of the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variance is based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variance under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.
The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 4 affirmative and 0 negative.
Attorney Altman stated, announcing the results on petition #2663, 4 votes cast, 4 votes vote and grant the variance and as I heard the evidence today before the board it seemed to be substantially that the reason why this house needed to be higher than it usually would be is the topographic habit so that he could secure the gravity drainage of the basement as much as anything to make sure that it’s properly drained without a sump pump.
President Stimmel stated, that’s correct.
Attorney Altman stated, you need to get a building permit before you proceed.
President Stimmel stated, thanks guys.
The Woods stated, thank you.
Charlie Mellon asked, did they bring in their thing, did they bring in their sign?
Director Weaver stated, I don’t think so I think I only had 1.
****
Attorney Altman asked, okay any other business?
President Stimmel asked, any other business? I don’t think we had any other business on the agenda.
Director Weaver stated, I don’t think we have anything.
President Stimmel stated, move to adjourn.
Dave Scott made motion to adjourn.
Charlie Mellon seconded the motion.
Respectfully submitted,
David Scott, Secretary
Diann Weaver, Director
White County Area Plan Commission
“I AFFIRM, UNDER THE PENALTIES FOR PERJURY, THAT I HAVE TAKEN REASONABLE CARE TO REDACT EACH SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER IN THIS DOCUMENT, UNLESS REQUIRED BY LAW.”
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